Don’t Miss a Post. Subscribe now.

What Are the Odds Putin is Bluffing About Using Nuclear Weapons?

Image courtesy of Eurointelligence

Eurointelligence founder Wolfgang Münchau has a thoughtful article on what Putin may or may not do. 

Please consider What are the Odds?, emphasis mine.

I have received a number of emails over the last few days from correspondents who assert that the risk of a nuclear war was small, or that it was unlikely. It is worth reflecting on the meaning of these predictions in detail. What does unlikely mean when we are talking about a nuclear war?

I can translate it for you. It means: “I have no clue. But I have a feeling.” That feeling is based on assumptions that may sound plausible, but that we cannot be sure of. We think we know what Vladimir Putin considers to be in his strategic interest. We think some brave soul in the Russian command structure would heroically refuse to comply with a presidential nuclear launch order. We may think that these weapons are as dysfunctional as Russia’s tanks, that they explode at launch or mid-air. Or we think that there might be a coup against him before he has the opportunity to pull the trigger. 

We can assert the probability of an earthquake, and attach a number to it. But there is no way we can do this here. We have no data and no probability distribution, and the usual weasel words are not helping us either.

All we have is intelligence from public sources and from our security services. They may have information about whether somebody is plotting against Putin. Or whether Putin faces internal opposition. But we have to treat such information professionally. Remember the weapons of mass destruction debacle? Back then, many western governments did not apply the highest standards of verification. We must ask ourselves: Is the source reliable? Is there a second source? Is there further corroboration? Do the sources have an agenda that may cause them to distort the truth, or lie?

Our western thinking about risk is rooted in the modern concept of probability, developed by the great Russian mathematician, Andrey Kolmogorov, in the 1930s. Probability and statistics allow us to calculate the numeric probability of an earthquake or help us with economic forecasts.

But this framework is not useful here. Right now, it is best to think not of quantifiable risk, but of unquantifiable uncertainty. 

There are clearly scenarios that speak against Russia’s use of nuclear weapons. But I can think of two where the bomb goes off in the end. The first is one where Putin realises that he lost the war, where he knows he will not personally survive, and where he decides to take the western European enemy down with him. What speaks against this scenario is that Russia’s elite might frustrate this. They clearly have no desire to perish in a nuclear holocaust. It is possible that my scenario won’t happen. Then again, a last-minute intervention by the generals and the oligarchs may not happen, or it happens and fails, or happens, succeeds but comes too late. Let’s us not pretend that we are in a position to write the ending of this particular Hollywood script.

In my second scenario, Putin calculates that the launch of a smallish tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine would split the western alliance. In particular, it would break the Biden-Scholz axis. I have been arguing from the start of the war that the Germans are the weak link in the western alliance. Putin knows that too, and he might conclude that this is his most effective weapon.

Münchau says he cannot assign a probability to his scenarios. But no one else can either. And that is his point.

I can’t help but fixate on  “Do the sources have an agenda that may cause them to distort the truth, or lie?”

There is no reason to trust what anyone says. The US state department lost whatever trust it had in the weapons of mass destruction fiasco.

Colin Powel aided President Bush’s agenda with a remarkable speech to the UN that anyone with an ounce of common sense knew was a lie. 

It is a history of lies that caused considerable debate, even in this corner, about whether Putin would invade Ukraine or how far he might go if he did. 

What is the agenda of the US this time? Of Putin? 

Even if we knew the agenda of Putin or the US, and knew that Putin wanted to use nukes, what are the odds of a last-minute intervention by the Russian generals?

People want to believe US leaders and they want us to not worry. That’s one possible agenda item. But what does anyone really know and is anyone really saying what they do know. 

But since we do not know, and since there is nothing anyone can do about it anyway, we may as well believe the odds are low, even if we have no idea.

This post originated at MishTalk.Com

Please Subscribe!

Like these reports? I hope so, and if you do, please Subscribe to MishTalk Email Alerts.

Subscribers get an email alert of each post as they happen. Read the ones you like and you can unsubscribe at any time.

If you have subscribed and do not get email alerts, please check your spam folder.

Mish 

Subscribe to MishTalk Email Alerts.

Subscribers get an email alert of each post as they happen. Read the ones you like and you can unsubscribe at any time.

This post originated on MishTalk.Com

Thanks for Tuning In!

Mish

Comments to this post are now closed.

335 Comments
Newest
Oldest Most Voted
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Watching today’s news, I wouldn’t rule out Ukraine taking back Crimea atop retaking the recently invaded portions, they’ve retaken Zolota Balka, which isn’t too far.
It would get VERY interesting if Georgia decided to capitalize on Russian troop weakness.
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
Human waves are the final, desperate gamble. Ukraine knows the end is near. Russia will concede some territory to save lives and equipment. For now. Your little reality bubble will soon be burst.
The sad reality is that there are only really two possible outcomes here: absolute defeat for Ukraine, or some kind of regime change in Russia. In desperation the US is trying to cause the latter but it is unlikely to be successful – Russia’s institutions and rule of law are too strong. Which leaves us with the complete destruction of Ukraine. It is utterly senseless.
Hansa Junchun
Hansa Junchun
3 years ago
Russia’s doctrine is unchanged. Putin has changed nothing. He reminded the west of the doctrine, and that, it seems, is enough to get everyone in a tizzy. In a way, that’s a good thing, since the arrogant amateurs in Washington seem to have forgotten Russia’s nuclear doctrine.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  Hansa Junchun
Russia seems to have forgotten that it’s a failing state that can’t successfully invade a neighboring country 1/10th its size.
Have another drink, Vlad.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Way worse than our bay of pigs invasion.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Cuba still doesn’t have gitmo back.
Ron Cataldi
Ron Cataldi
3 years ago
Russian “mobilization” is a redux of press-gangs from the era of the great naval wars of the 1700’s. They’re emptying out their prisons in the search for warm meat for the sausage mill. And they’re being bused to the front lines without equipment, without proper clothing, without any idea of why they’re even there. There are reports of Russian soldiers being captured who are malnourished, dressed in flip-flops, unarmed, ragged clothes, etc. This is the work of “master strategist” Putin. It would be risible if so many weren’t dying. How awful of a condemnation of Russian leadership this is, that they cannot think of a better use of their young men than to send them off to die in Ukraine.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  Ron Cataldi
“How awful of a condemnation of Russian leadership this is, that they cannot think of a better use of their young men than to send them off to die in Ukraine.”
Definitely a LOAD of ineptitude, atop the loss of 80K troops and 14 generals so far.
This invasion has been a military folly for the books, using prisoners to invade a peaceful country wound up with tortured, raped and murdered women and children, bombed church’s, hospitals and schools, and the loss of territory once these troops were confronted with real combat.
Russian technology has proven to be enormously outdated, as has their logistics and Putin was completely oblivious.
He bit off much, much more than he can chew and now he cannot afford to spit it out, leaving him the option of continuing the slaughter his troops or use strategic nukes and face real US/NATO boots on the ground in Ukraine.
He needs an exit, doesn’t have one and his own government is starting to turn on him.
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
Reply to  Ron Cataldi
Those guys in flip flops with rusty rifles seem to be doing pretty well, with 5 Ukrainians killed for every Russian (according to WaPo), and massively outnumbered (for now).
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
Yet somehow they keep retreating. Truly a head scratcher…
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
There aren’t any Russian troops in the Northern regions. These are the local people (militias) trying to defend their communities from the Ukrainians, and they are massively outnumbered. This situation will change now that the SMO is over and Russia is mobilizing. Not really a head scratcher.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
Maybe state run media ain’t very accurate.
80,000 Russian troops are disabled, 55K of them are dead, 9,000 Ukrainians dead, reverse your numbers, or, maybe you have a relative that’s been conscripted and need to tell yourself that.
He’ll be fine, really, he will.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Everyone dying in a nuclear holocaust. Small price to pay to get Ukraine into NATO.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn

Your fellow gop voters are thirsty for the rapture… why do you deny their religious freedom?

KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Fellow GOP voters? I’m a democrat.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
And I’m the Queen of England.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
The dead will likely be less than 2 billion in an all out war, which is unlikely to occur. The vast majority of dead will be in Russia and Europe.
Stop worrying, be happy.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
for all you Russian partisans here, direct from Russia. Unhappy soldier/Nationalist rants on.
———-
For the first time since the end of the Great Patriotic War, a Russian city was handed over to the enemy
2 Oct 2022
Well celebrated, right? We in Moscow – the annexation of the territories of the Kherson and Zaporozhye regions (LPR and DPR, I think, have been with us since 2014, and we are with them), and in Kyiv – the liberation of Yampol and other settlements.
Today we left/surrendered Krasny Lyman
….
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
has your sister, or your mother , or YOU maybe, been raped by a Russian, by any chance ? Your anti Russia stance must have deeper roots than you are willing to admit …..you can confide in me, I won t tell anyone….
Ron Cataldi
Ron Cataldi
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
Good point, Russians are using mass rape as a weapon to brutalize the people of Ukraine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_violence_in_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
Oh comrade, your angry tears of denial have touched me. I will no longer mock your abysmal English by calling you comrade Yoda. Henceforth, you shall be known as Comrade Baghdad Bob.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
my abysmal english ??? Speaking and writing fluently 5 languages is not easy, so I am sure most people will forgive me the occasional error , How many languages do you speak, apart from your BS language, that is ?
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
Hey c’mon! You didn’t like my NYT sourced article above, so I give you an article from Russia itself, written by Russians and you are STILL unhappy. This is for you:
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
LOL you send me ‘I can t get no satisfaction’…. great Rolling Stones song btw so thanks …… but , what about the rape ? Probably not very satisfying ?
Christoball
Christoball
3 years ago
The question isn’t if there is Nuclear Armageddon or not; the question is how can we profit from it. Choo Choo…. I think I can, I think I can!!!!!
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  Christoball
I’m thinking of investing in wig making companies. Will be in high demand after our hair falls out from radiation poisoning.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Too obvious… Buffet has no doubt bought up all the wig makers my now. The smart play is in merkins.
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
As Europeans freeze in their sleep this winter, they need to remember that, “It’s a tremendous opportunity to once and for all remove the dependence
on Russian energy and thus to take away from Vladimir Putin the weaponisation of energy as a means of advancing his
imperial designs” (Blinken, talking about the Nord Stream sabotage)
We know it was you, Fredo. Just say the words. We know you want to brag about it.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
Not bad for a Russian, a pop culture reference definitely makes you look more American than extracting words from an English thesaurus, looking good there Kamerad.
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
Yes. The Europeans will be wiping their butts with bare hands (no toilet paper) that are freezing cold (no heating) and in total darkness (no electricity) this winter. Of course, just the regular people. The Macrons, the Scholzes, the Ursula Wonderlands et al will be living lives of luxury.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
where he decides to take the western European enemy down with him
No. Putin & the Russians know very well that all the decisions are made in Washington, and that the EU nations are not subjects with agency, but vassals who do the boss’s bidding.
No. Those weapons are all aimed at the USA and American assets.
Putin has repeated often that he will bring it to the people who are making the decisions, and that Americans are not safe on the other side of the ocean anymore.
By the way, I assess the likelihood to be very low, unless NATO start using nukes, which is the actual question here, not if Russia will start.
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
Reply to  Webej
As Putin recently pointed out, the US is the only country with a track record of using nuclear weapons. Twice. Against civilians.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
USA likes to be first in everything. [lol]
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
And it worked.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  Webej
“Americans are not safe on the other side of the ocean anymore.” – If you insist, soon Americans will be on your side of the ocean, our army is 100% volunteer, they love what they do, they’re good at it and they do not run from fights.
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
You mean like in Vietnam? Or Afghanistan? LOL.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
Speaking of Afghanistan, Russia has already lost more troops in Ukraine than they did in 9 years in Afghanistan, which is more than ten times American losses there.
Maybe the wrong example to choose if you were hoping to intimidate Americans, or, maybe the Putin controlled media in Russia hasn’t allowed you to know these things.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
For decades war gaming has shown nato troop losses of 40,000 within weeks of a confrontation with Russia.
They will be fighting on Russian home turf (Russian army & logistics is setup up for defense).
America has never ever sustained such losses.
I doubt American troops would be keen for it.
And then???
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  Webej
It’s only taken 13 HIMAR’s for Ukraine to regain territory, we just sent them 18 more.
It’s hilarious you refer to Russian logistics, the same logistics that yielded outdated tanks breaking down or out of fuel, starving troops and reports of meal rations 20 years outdated.
Russia’s army is not voluntary, ours is. Our defense contractors may be expensive, but Putin’s has played him as the Emperor with no clothes, selling the military garbage goods while Putin thinks it’s high quality.
You can’t beat Ukraine’s ragtag civilian military, you actually think you have the slightest chance against America’s army?
Carl_R
Carl_R
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
No. They announced that 18 more would be built for them over the next two years. They are not coming from US inventory.
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
And if they are so gung-ho for war, why did FJ Biden refuse Ukraine’s entry into NATO??!!

But he has volunteered that US troops will defend Taiwan if needed. Why this kind of step-motherly treatment for poor Ukraine?! 😉

Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  Webej
Well, have it your way then. America is stomping the crap out of Russian troops for invading American land.
From halfway across the planet.
With no American troops.
Russia is a joke only Russians don’t get.
Kimbo252
Kimbo252
3 years ago
IMHO,this nuclear Saber rattling that Russia is planning to use Nukes,evolves directly by,the West twisting Putins words.
It is the USA that is contemplating using a tactical nuke in Ukraine,so need to drum up Russian threat of using nukes in Ukraine,to then blame it on Russia.
People need to read Putins speeches to hear this.
Also,read Russia’s Nuclear protocol on when they will use Nuclear weapons.
Russia does not need to use nukes in Ukraine and will not.
USA are war mongers.
USA are the only country to have used nuclear weapons twice,now they are looking at defeat in Ukraine,they are trying to gain cover to use them again.
Sheer stupidity and arrogance from the USA once again.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  Kimbo252
No, you are stupid one. The West is winning. Russians are retreating everywhere. We have no need to use our nuke weapons on the sorry Russians.
JRM
JRM
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Until they come back in force..
Regular Russian military will now be moving into Southern Ukraine, meaning the first strike on these forces, it will be no longer be a “Special Operation” and switch to full scale declaration of War by Russia, meaning command and control in Kiev will be struck!!!
Ron Cataldi
Ron Cataldi
3 years ago
Reply to  JRM
LOL keep hope alive. The “professional” Russian army is blown. Now they’re scooping up anyone too slow to dodge the draft.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  Ron Cataldi
It’s now a Special Needs Operation.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  JRM
They’ll come back in force and die in force. You have chosen to side with the losers.
Carl_R
Carl_R
3 years ago
Speculating on whether Putin will use nukes is not useful. He either will, or he won’t, and there isn’t anything we can do to prevent it. All that can be done is to have a plan for what to do if he does, and I believe that a plan is already in place.
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
3 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
“He either will, or he won’t, and there isn’t anything we can do to prevent it.”
Ditto Biden. And Xi…
In all cases, “we” can, while not strictly prevent it, render it less likely by behaving, and/or abstaining from behaving, in certain ways.
While governments, nor those supporting them, can hardly be said to be rational; there does seem to be at least a veneer of rationality present in many of those who actually work there. Even Biden, Putin and Xi.
It isn’t 100%, completely random and unpredictable, whether Biden will wake up one morning and hit the button or not. Certain classes of possible acts by Putin and Xi does, at least one would hope, influence the probability that he will or not.
Carl_R
Carl_R
3 years ago
Reply to  StukiMoi
I agree. The best we can hope for is rationality at the top, because a global nuclear war is very, very bad for everyone. Xi seems to be very calculating and rational, and I don’t expect him to initiate a nuclear conflict. Biden, to the extent he is competent, is not one to take irrational acts, either, so the US initiating a nuclear conflict is also very unlikely. I always thought Putin was calculating and rational as well, but not so much anymore. His increasing isolation seems to have made him more apt to make impulsive decisions. Thus, of the three major world leaders, the only one I think who has any chance at all of pushing the button is Putin, but I still think the chances are low. (The possibility that someone such as Kim Jong-un fires a nuclear warhead is always possible, too, but also unlikely.)
BTW, I do think that if Putin fires even a small nuclear missile, some of the fallout will land on a NATO country, and that will draw NATO into the conflict, so the situation will escalate quickly and dramatically, and that will not benefit anyone, so hopefully it will never happen.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Here’s some very interesting reading/listening for a Sunday.
Russian soldiers made thousands of calls from the battlefield in Ukraine to relatives at home. Here are their conversations.
28 Sep 2022
Also suggest pursuing the reader comments attached to this article:
JRM
JRM
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
You mean you buy what the MSM is selling???
Several US Media sources have been caught splicing speeches and conversations to make them saying something completely different in the last few years…
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
3 years ago
Reply to  JRM
I watched Stoltenbergs jittery speech on RT, last friday when he was trying to tell that Ukraine could not be granted NATO membership any time soon , I saw a manipulated version on Euronews of the same speech creating the impression that membership was possible ….Incredible, lying and cheating THAT is what msm does ALL of the time !
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
NYT ? Right , that s were I stopped being interested….
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
Everything is fine, comrade Baghdad Bob. Th Russian conscripts have merely moved to more advantageous positions, away from the front.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
But I wager that many thousands of more Mish readers didn’t bury their heads in the ground because of WHERE a news item comes from and therefore profited from the post.
Kimbo252
Kimbo252
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Hey Bojo,
Put things into perspective,you are clearly sucked in by the minutiae of the situation. the small, precise, or trivial details of something.
“the minutiae of everyday life”
Krasny Liman,a town that used to have a population of 18000 people, is just that.
Minutiae!!!
Don’t be distracted by the big,geopolitcal,economic picture that Russia has just shown the USA, EU & UK.
The start of the break up of Ukraine and the west being denied resources that it needs.
The USA/Nato know they will never win a conventional war in Ukraine against Russia,otherwise they would let Ukraine join Nato,and nato would then be destroyed.
USA is to scared to Fight Russia full stop.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  Kimbo252
The USA can turn Russia into a smoking hole with conventional weapons. Let those drunken clowns drop a nuke and test it.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  Kimbo252
USA + NATO does not have to fight Russians. We have a proxy to do the fighting. If we do come for Russia though, the Russian fighters that survive will be running to Siberia.
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
The current situation in Ukraine is that Russia has about 80,000 troops present. This is about to change to 350,000 troops. If necessary, Russia can raise an army of several million men. There is no possible path to victory for Ukraine. There is also no need for Russia to resort to nuclear weapons.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
A spine-chilling notion, 300K unwilling Russian couch potato’s are about to pick up where desperate Russian prison conscripts failed. It’s estimated it will take as much as 6 months to train them, will there be any Russians left in Ukraine by then?
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
These are reserves being called up. Trained and with recent military service. Incidentally, it is the Wagner PMC recruiting from prisons, not the Russian military.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
So Wagner has the power to free convicts? Amazing how much red tape fascism cuts through.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
They’re not all going to be on the zero line. You need truck drivers, co-ordinators, people to load and off load stuff, cooks, medics.
They’re looking for specialists, many of whom will be sent somewhere in Russia to take the place of others, who will be freed up to head to Ukraine.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
I watched a BBC story on the conscription. They did some interviews with people getting on the recruitment buses or watching their sons leave. Two stick out in my memory.
In the first, a soft looking guy who claimed to work in HR stated that he was happy to go fight. He boasted “I’m in the mood for a fight”.
The seocnd was a mother packing her son off who stated for the cameras that “…this would be an easy fight. The lads will run around in the fields for a few weeks killing Ukrainians and lose a few pounds”. She has obviously been watching too much of Russian news reports.
Christoball
Christoball
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
At least they have couch and potato.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
Those essentially unarmed kids will be slaughtered.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
So far it is Ukraine that is losing soldiers by the truck full… throwing waves upon waves of cannon fodder into the maw of Russian artillery.
The Russians keep retreating when faced with the prospect of serious losses.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  Webej
Yet somehow they are gaining territory with their truckloads of dead soldiers. Can the Russians not even repel the dead?
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
Not terribly useful when HIMARS deprives you of ammo.
A month ago you traitors were saying HIMARS would have no effect. It’s having exactly the promised effect: cutting supply lines and starving Russian invaders of food and ammo, causing them to retreat. More soldiers with no supplies are simply meat for the grinder.
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Dream on
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
More targets for Ukraine soldiers! It has to suck living the rest of your life as a cripple in Russia (assuming you don’t get killed). Russia doesn’t have the disability laws that the USA does.
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
To you it’s just a football game
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
To many Dumbocrats afflicted with Putin Derangement Syndrome, even a nuclear war is like a video game. They really are stupid enough to believe that if something goes wrong, you can just click the reset button and start over again.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
Granted, pretending to be an American provoking divisiveness has worked surprisingly well in the past, it now only fools a very small number of Americans.
I think “Pizzagate” was the pivot, you guys went too far, the premise of a child molesting ring of cannibal Democrats shook out all but the most insanely stupid.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway

You are really committed to this commie sympathizer role. You should go fight for the country you love…. Russia.

Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
And Russia is the deep underdog. Don’t bet on them!
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
“If necessary, Russia can raise an army of several million men.”
Ukraine already have that many….. Most of them likely more motivated to fight, to boot….
It’s a losing game for any invader, as long as the Ukranians are willing to stay in the fight. Like the US in Afghanistan, forcing a superpower off of a small area like the Baghran Airbase, may be a tough sell for almost any fighting force. But anything much bigger than that, is almost impossibly to cling to from afar, as long as opposition is sufficiently determined not to ever, come-what-may, give up.
What Russia may have, is enough ordnance to turn Ukraine into Afghanistan if they decide to drop it all indiscriminately enough. But then….. They’ll still be chased out if the Ukrainians remain determined to keep at it.
The calculation changes completely, if there are meaningful regions, especially ones directly connected to Russia, where SIGNIFICANT shares of the population prefer to, or are at most indifferent to, being part of Russia, rather than Ukraine. In the recently annexed provinces, that may well be true. Then, the dynamic is somewhat turned on its head: It’s the Ukrainians who are the invaders, with the “defenders” then having the additional advantage of a long landborder with one of the world’s largest military stockpiles and industry to keep them armed.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  StukiMoi
You’re forgetting it’s Ukrainians on the front lines on both sides.
Half of Ukraine was Russia for centuries, and virtually everybody in the country speaks Russian.
O, and Western military stores are seriously depleted, and they don’t have the industry to keep up.
Especially Europe, which doesn’t have the energy to run steel factories anymore.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  Webej
“You’re forgetting it’s Ukrainians ….. on both sides”
LOL, yes, because Ukrainians were impressed with Russian troops torturing, raping and murdering their wives and daughters – bombing their hospitals and schools and robbing their homes for food that they weren’t being provided.
You really need to, at the very least, consider the possibility that Putin’s state controlled media isn’t telling the whole story.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
A KGB agent that believes the collapse of the communist Soviet Union was the greatest tragedy of history would LIE?!???!
Knock me over with a feather!
Sunriver
Sunriver
3 years ago
Certainly Gold prices are not reflecting possible use of nuclear weapons. Heck, Gold prices have no knowledge of a war or inflation.
Avery
Avery
3 years ago
Hi Mish.
Will it be like Fail Safe?
President Henry Fonda – “after you hear that sharp shrill noise on the phone, then you’ll know that Washington D.C. and the surrounding counties are gone, then it will be safe again.”
pimaCanyon
pimaCanyon
3 years ago
I believe Putin has said he would respond to a nuclear strike with nuclear weapons. Has he ever said he would use nuclear in a first strike? The US has said that at least 5 times in the past few years. US government officials have said the US should consider using nukes on Russia.
Russia is surrounded by US/NATO military bases. We have missiles right on their border. Remember what happen when Russia tried to put missiles 90 miles from us in Cuba?
So who is the aggressor here?
Ron Cataldi
Ron Cataldi
3 years ago
Reply to  pimaCanyon
Yes, he said he would use nuclear in a first strike, as recently as this week. SO who is the aggressor here, as his troops illegally occupy parts of another sovereign nation, and he threatens the world with nuclear blackmail?
pimaCanyon
pimaCanyon
3 years ago
Reply to  Ron Cataldi
US/NATO is the aggressor. In early 1990’s we told Russia we would NOT expand NATO ONE INCH EAST of Germany! Guess how many NATO countries are now east of Germany. Thirteen! NATO has added 13 countries east of Germany after we told Russia we would not add any! You know what the US and its lying, cheating, stealing organization called the CIA did in 2014, don’t you? (Those are Mike Pompeo’s words about lying, cheating, stealing CIA. He should know, being the former CIA director.) US/CIA backed a coup in Ukraine to depose a democratically elected President. After the coup, the Ukrainian military started a bloody war against its own citizens in eastern Ukraine. It went on for 8 years. They killed at least 14,000 Ukrainian civilians. Those regions of Ukraine voted to join Russia. And why wouldn’t they, when they had been shot at and shelled for 8 years by the Ukrainian military including the Nazi Azov battalion.
Kimbo252
Kimbo252
3 years ago
Reply to  Ron Cataldi
Please provide evidence of Putin saying he will use Nuclear Weapons on a first strike!!!
Oh,you can’t find/provide evidence???
I rest my case.
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
Reply to  Ron Cataldi
Back up your assertion with a complete quote. I have never heard Putin threaten anyone with a nuclear first strike.
Incidentally, the US today occupies a large part of the sovereign nation of Syria. The US also occupies the sovereign nation of Iraq, despite having been told to leave by the Iraqi government in 2019. Just yesterday Turkey – a NATO member – attacked the sovereign nation of Iraq with F-16 airstrikes. It seems the rules in the ‘rule based order’ only apply to certain countries when we want them to.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
“Putin warns West: Threat to resort to nuclear weapons ‘not a bluff’” – https://www.foxnews.com/world/putin-warns-west-threat-resort-nuclear-weapons-not-bluff
Putin distinctly threatened to use tactical nukes in the invaded portions of Ukraine if Ukraine continues to fight back in those areas after his fake referendum.
He knows he’s beaten, threatens to flip the chess board if they don’t stop winning.
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
When I asked for a quote, I meant a quote of Putin, not some rabid Fox News journalist. Here’s the actual relevant quote from the speech you referenced:
… the statements made by some high-ranking representatives of the leading
NATO countries on the possibility and admissibility of using weapons of mass
destruction – nuclear weapons – against Russia.

I would
like to remind those who make such
statements regarding Russia that our country has different types
of weapons as well, and some of them are more modern than the weapons
NATO countries have. In the event of a threat to the territorial
integrity of our country and to defend
Russia and our people, we will certainly make use of all weapon systems
available to us. This is not a bluff
.”

Very clearly he was talking of the Russian response to any nuclear attack on Russia. Of course, Western propaganda just quotes little bits, out of context, and then makes absurd claims around them.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
Do yo speak Russian?
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
He’s going to get his country incinerated if he keeps running his mouth. This is why you don’t want a manlet for a leader: tiny man syndrome.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
And prumbly returns. Wake up! It’s 6:00am in Moscow. No time for sleeping.
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
But I’m a bot. I don’t need sleep.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  pimaCanyon
You’re saying the U.S. is the aggressor in Ukraine?
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
My bad, misread your comment.
pimaCanyon
pimaCanyon
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
You bet they are! Who do you think blew up the pipeline? Who added 13 countries east of Germany to NATO after we promised them we would not add any? Who helped Ukraine stage a coup to oust a democratically elected President in 2014? Who keeps sending Ukraine weapons? This thing would have been over in a couple of weeks if US/NATO hadn’t kept it going. It never would have happened if NATO had not continued expanding and if US/CIA had not toppled a democratically elected President in Ukraine. You bet the US and NATO are the aggressors!
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  pimaCanyon
So, while Putin makes threats against NATO if they allow Ukraine to join, you’re saying NATO’s growth, somehow, allows Putin to rape, torture & murder Ukrainian woman and children? That the U.S. toppled Ukraine’s president by a Ukrainian far right coup, that was later countered with the election of Zelenskyy by Ukraine’s left?
At least your not saying Zelenskyy, a Jew, is a NAZI, thanks, at least, for that.
If It’s any consolation, your English is very America-like, you almost seem like an American, I’m certainly convinced.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  pimaCanyon
“It never would have happened if NATO had not continued expanding and if US/CIA had not toppled a democratically elected President in Ukraine. You bet the US and NATO are the aggressors!”
So, you’re saying CIA conspiracy theories gave Russia justification to torture, rape and murder Ukrainian women and children while bombing churches, schools and hospitals.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  pimaCanyon
The country that invaded its neighbor. Why do you ask these dumb questions?
pimaCanyon
pimaCanyon
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
You mean like the way the Ukrainian military including its Nazi Azov battalion waged war on its own citizens in eastern Ukraine for 8 years, killing at least 14,000 civilians?
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
2020 stands out to me, Folks may recall, back in 2020 Putin flooded the oil market to suppress prices, at the same time the Covid crash had happened, for an enhanced effect on dropping price. His timing seemed weird.
What’s to say he, and his oligarchy, didn’t position themselves huge in energy futures back when oil was trading for dirt, fully knowing he was planning to invade Ukraine at a strategic time when oil was back up in demand.
If I’m right, then no, he won’t likely use nukes, he’s probably not even that interested in Ukraine so much as using the power to manipulate commodity prices, fully knowing he can’t beat the West in a conventional war, and nukes will yield no winner, he does at least have a shot at winning by crushing Western economies, affecting both grain and energy prices to our disadvantage while making massive profits at the same time..
That certainly seems like the best move he has on the Chess board right now.
Oil is gradually becoming a barbaric relic as alts displace demand, replaced with nat gas and renewables powering EV’s, and, the U.S. has a massive abundance of NG – Millennials hate oil, whether or not we agree on global warming, they do.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
Putin’s wealth is already estimated at 70 billion US. He has no need to do what you said for a few billion more. And the money he already has will do him no good if he is dead. Which is becoming highly likely since he is losing his grip on power after his botched invasion of Ukraine.
Regarding oil being a barbaric relic: Certainly, the world is hoping to wean itself from all fossil fuels, eventually. But we will be using around 100 million barrels of oil per day for the rest of this decade. And I suspect that we will still be using 50 million bpd in 20 years time.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
“Putin’s wealth is already estimated at 70 billion US. He has no need to do what you said for a few billion more. And the money he already has will do him no good if he is dead. Which is becoming highly likely since he is losing his grip on power after his botched invasion of Ukraine.”
The same argument would apply to any of Putin’s aspirations – “He has no need”, yet he’s still in office and aggressively attacking Ukraine.
Putin has a motivator, and whatever that is, your argument could still be made to dispel it, yet he persists.
As far as “a few billion more”, I say it’s far, far more than just a few billion. The CFMA does not limit or monitor futures or derivatives trades, this was demonstrated when Bernie Sanders leaked CFTC records of oil futures back in 2008, when the CFTC’s hands were tied and even the Pentagon was denied access to investigate financial terrorism.
Oil futures had been manipulated, Hunt Brother’s style, which triggered the onslaught of CDO/CDS defaults, many of the banks holding the bulk of those futures were also short the sub-prime market, maybe you forgot, Goldman’s saw record breaking profits that year in proprietary trading.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
Okay. Assuming you are 100% right, (which you aren’t) what are you going to do about it? Complain? Or take advantage of the situation? Did you invest in oil when you realized this was happening? I invested in oil companies two years ago. Not because of Putin, but because oil and gas companies had been reducing their investments for close to a decade and a supply crunch was coming as a result.
By the way. Putin persists because he has to. Failure, for dictators, often means death. Which is where this is likely headed.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
I definitely got into oil in 2020 at $12/barrel, that was lucrative, but there was no way to know it’d be up to $120.
As to Putin’s motive, again, your rationale over why he wouldn’t do it for money also applies to why he wouldn’t do it for political aspiration or power… or any reason.
I’d even go as far as to say he may have had a hand in oil futures back in ’08, which the Pentagon attempted to investigate for financial terrorism only to be shot down by the CFTC because of CFMA records protection.
For him to sabotage Nordstream is strange, it will only hurt Russia’s gas revenues, to me that says there’s a motive that might not be obvious.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD

Nordstream was already a dead asset. Europe has already committed to getting off all Russian oil and gas. And Putin had already stopped Nordstream shipments in retaliation.

Putin was simply sending a message. He can mess with other energy infrastructure as well.
And if somehow, Europe and Russian ever make nice in the future, the pipeline can easily be repaired.
Curious-Cat
Curious-Cat
3 years ago
“You should never argue with a crazy man, man, man, man”
“You ought to know by now”
Billy Joel
That point should have been driven home by the US national experience of 2016 to 2020.
My point is, as the old IBM manuals used to say when the operator did something that was not covered in the manual, “The results are unpredictable”
People who hope for the best may believe that Putin has at least one small spark of humanity. But who knows?
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  Curious-Cat
If he Putin doesn’t act sensibly, the West will kick Russia’s arse. Afterwards, the country will be broken up like the Middle East was. That is the payback for losers.
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Right now, part of the West (US) is kicking the arse of the other part (Western Europe).

Happy winter to all of your western European warmonger friends!

hmk
hmk
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
That worked out marvelously
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  hmk
He might actually agree with you there. These bloodthirsty warmongers don’t give a damn what happens to the regular folks in faraway lands. If it suits their agenda, they will *pretend* to care about them, like they are doing with Ukraine now. But in actuality, they don’t give a rat’s patooty.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
Billions in support doesn’t feel very “pretend”, in fact, it’s made the difference in Russia’s defeat.
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
Well, you have to waste tens of billions in order to make hundreds of millions. Ukraine is little more than a money-laundering scheme for these warmongers.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  hmk
Better than where we are now with Russia.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Like the Taliban?
Kimbo252
Kimbo252
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Lol,That is the problem here!!
The USA is getting its head kicked in yet again in this Ukrainian conflict, that the USA provoked.
The USA/Nato are to scared to enter conventional war with Russia because they will never win it,even just using Ukraine as their proxy now,they are doomed to yet another USA war failure.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  Kimbo252
What rock did you just crawl out from under Comrade?
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
The reality is that the West is having its butt kicked and there’s nothing they can do. The EU just announced MORE sanctions against Russia – on toilet paper! So not only are Europeans heating their homes with wood this winter, they’ll be wiping their asses with leaves. That’ll show Putin!
While the EU flops around like a landed fish, the US goes on with its plan of deliberate provocation and escalation. It’s quite mad. Perhaps they will manage to escalate things all the way to a nuclear war. Maybe that’s what they want. I am starting to wonder.
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
LOL. The Germans and other west Europeans will be wiping their butts with freezing hands. And in total darkness!
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
They should perhaps figure out how to kick the arse of sandal wearers with homemade guns, first….. Babysteps……
More sane people in The West; there actually still are some for now, thank goodness; realise that the worst thing they can do, is prove the Kremlin paranoiacs’ correct, in their allegations that “The West” is waging war against them. That WILL change the dynamics, and the rules, drastically.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
U.S. celebrates “significant” wins in Ukraine, as criticism in Russia grows
Oct 2, 2022
The recapture by Ukrainian troops of a key strategic city in the Donetsk region prompted celebration by Ukraine and its allies, and heightened internal criticism within Russia.
Driving the news: Russia announced on Saturday that it was withdrawing troops from the city of Lyman as Ukrainian forces advanced nearer.
• The move came one day after Russian President Vladimir Putin formally annexed four regions of Ukraine — including Donetsk — proclaiming them to now be part of Russia.
• President Biden denounced Russia’s “fraudulent” attempt to annex Ukrainian territory in a statement Friday, saying that “Russia is violating international law, trampling on the United Nations Charter, and showing its contempt for peaceful nations everywhere.”
• Ukraine’s Defense Ministry confirmed via twitter Sunday morning that Lyman “is fully cleared of the Russian occupiers.”
The big picture: The loss of Lyman is a huge blow to Russian forces, who have used the city as a crucial logistics and rail hub in the Donetsk.
• “Operationally, Lyman is important because it commands a key road crossing over the Siversky Donets River, behind which Russia has been attempting to consolidate its defenses,” the U.K. Defense Ministry wrote in an intelligence update on Sunday.
• For Ukrainian forces, the retaking of the city provides them with a foothold to advance further east.
• “Lyman is important because it is the next step towards the liberation of the Ukrainian Donbas. It is an opportunity to go further to Kreminna and Sievierodonetsk, and it is psychologically very important,” Serhii Cherevatyi, spokesperson for Ukraine’s eastern forces, said Saturday, per Reuters.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
….western propaganda ….Let s talk again, say a fortnight from now….it might not be nice I am afraid… for the US or Kiev rather…. or both
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
I’ve save this exchange and will revisit in whatever the current thread may be in 2 weeks time.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
fair enough, I am not a brainwashed fanatic like you….
Ron Cataldi
Ron Cataldi
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
You’re right, the heroic Russians in Lyman are heroically retreating and getting patriotically exploded on the roads out of Lyman.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  Ron Cataldi
It’s getting really easy to spot Russian trolls lately, thanks, THAT was a real “LOL”.
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
The soldiers defending the northern front are mostly local militia – i.e. the local people fighting for their right of self-determination against Ukraine. Not Russian army. The size of the Russian presence in Ukraine has always been very small, perhaps 70-80 thousand, now massively outnumbered by the Ukrainians. This is about to change in a big way as Russia gets serious. The fight with Putin’s pinkie finger is about to end.
Incidentally, it was obvious right from the start that it was never Russia’s intention to take over Ukraine as the Western propaganda machine suggested. Russia had way too few troops committed for that. It would likely take millions of soldiers to take over and control a country the size and population of Ukraine.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
“The size of the Russian presence in Ukraine has always been very small, perhaps 70-80 thousand”
Russia has lost a total of 80,000 troops in Ukraine, an estimated 55,000 of them are fatalities.
It’s obvious the Russian media has you disinformed.
American media has footage of an elderly Ukrainian women stating her bewilderment at Russian soldiers asking her “Where are the fascists?”…and her replying “What fascists?”.
Carl_R
Carl_R
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
Russia just made it very, very clear what it’s intent was. They staged fake referendums, and announced that they were annexing much of Ukraine, and then celebrated that the land was returning to it’s rightful ownership. This never had anything to do with nazis, or anything other than expanding the borders of Russia.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
3 years ago
In the first place , Putin did NOT invade Ukraine , it was the fn US of A with its CIA COUP in 2014, that invaded , corrupted , armed and financed one of the most corrupt countries in Europe, without taking into account the russian speaking pro Russia regions that now have been democratically annexed by Russia, after years of utter discrimination and murdering of 14000 people, (and dramatically ticking) by the US bribed Kiev regime headed by a hyperventilating, doped, corrupt, criminal actor now starring his best film ever , a film that s turning him into a billionaire with a guaranteed castle in Florida and one in Italy too so far! No matter what happens, US’ puppet Zelensky is safe for the rest of his pathetic yet dangerous life. I do hope from the bottom of my heart though that the FBS will find him at one point to ‘take care’ of this utterly corrupt, deceitful gangster the idiotic west, the clueless EU in particular, seems to adore! It is obvious that the EU abiding by US’ mafia rules has not only shot itself into the foot but merely blew off both legs in trying to appease its criminal warmonger at the other side of the ocean whose latest feat was the disgusting, reprehensible, (or was it desperate) sabotage of the NS pipelines, ruining Europe’s cheap energy infrastructure for years to come . Of course we don t have to worry , the US ironically told us , we will sell LNG to you, our intimate ”friend” Blinken said, …. at 10X the price Russia used to sell, he forgot to add, and that we won t get any gas when winter is very cold in the fn US. No matter what happens , Putin is RIGHT in ALL aspects so if he wants to go nuclear I personally don t care ,living at +-25 kms from NATO headquarters and from the fantasy demockrazy EU circus, I might be one of the first victims, as russia’s weaponry is said not to be very accurate(which I doubt), but I don t give a rat s$$$ as long as together with me, at least a 100 worthless corrupt abiding mfrs get finished in the nuclear process, so I d say to Putin ….GO FOR IT , I am ready ….SLAVA ROSSIYA ! Long live Putin !
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
You’re a nutcase, comrade Yoda, and obviously unfit to serve at the front. All you can do is make increasingly hysterical toilet emails and praise your pathetic, alcoholic country as it sends its people to get pulped by superior tech.
Your meltdown is hilarious!
Ron Cataldi
Ron Cataldi
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Mish brings these lunatics here because of his foolish agreement to add his content on ZeroHedge. He’s dancing with the devil.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  Ron Cataldi
You can’t escape them. They’re legion, and spend all day every day spreading crazy.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  Ron Cataldi
Agree, Zerohedge is little more than Russian propaganda, once upon a time they were interesting tinfoil hat financial doom scrolling material, but I think they got a lucrative side deal from Putey.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
3 years ago
Reply to  Ron Cataldi
I NEVER gave Zerohedge one single look …..like you ,I get my info from CNN and know for a FACT they are LYING ! …WMD in Iraq remember, Trump’s collusion with Russia, the outrageous vaxxination/covid LIES etc to name just a few among thousand of cases of lying ande cheating… ….
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
…why are so eager to pay attention then ? Btw, under how many avatars are you writing BS now ?
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
Somebody should arrest you before you harm yourself or others.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
….unlike you I am not a pathetic follower,hanging on to the deceitful narrative of western state propaganda….Neither do I take for granted everything that Russia claims, I pay attention to both sides and cannot help but conclude that our msm are DISGUSTING LIARS parroting merely US/NATO BS…..
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
“…the deceitful narrative of western state propaganda”
You’re either Russian, or a poor fool that’s been brainwashed by Zerohedge who frequents words like “deep state” and “fake news”
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
Ukraine war is seven months old. The west say no to Putin like a two years old. Putin declare a Marshall Plan to build the Russia military industry. Russia can no longer trust the west. Throughout history men escaped wars, if they could. Putin have plenty men/women left to recruit, train and discipline. General Keane vision brought us to where we are. General Keane ==> love your eyes.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  8dots
You are speaker, English, no?
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
The British had no respect to rebel army who couldn’t look straight at their eyes, escaped instead of fighting like men, had no drummers,
no uniforms, dressed like farmers, never shaved, hiding behind trees, shooting at the British like savage Indians.
After escaping in the middle of the night like cowards, In Xmas 1776 GW marched to Trenton slaughter the Hessian forces, recruited by the British and escaped again…
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  8dots
So you are expecting China to be Russia’s France and save it by blockading Nato from landing?
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  8dots
the amerikan revolutionaries, washington all down the line, were violent terrorists who fought that way, as they were out gunned and were on home turf. over the centuries they were revered as something else. one man’s freedumb fighters is another man’s terrorists.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
It’s spelled “American”, good luck with the trolling, “Rushen”
Ron Cataldi
Ron Cataldi
3 years ago
Reply to  8dots
Russians are mass murdering civilians in Ukraine, calling home crying to their moms and girlfriends, and then running for the hills and getting exploded every time they get encircled.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  Ron Cataldi
This is the result of Putin putting Prigozhin in charge of recruitment, from the prison system, effectively the Russian army is good at raping, robbing, and running from fights.
radar
radar
3 years ago
I thought this was a very insightful interview a day ago with ret. Gen. Keane – https://www.foxnews.com/person/k/gen-jack-keane
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  radar
Another exemplar of the American stall of loser generals.
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
Throughout military history there are military units destroyed 3-4 times, before being stationed in/near enemy capital, victorious.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  8dots
Throughout military history there has also been units so decimated that they never could reconstitute themselves except in paper and afterwards in peacetime. How many German and Japanese units were never reconstituted after WW II? The vast majority just disappeared.
LM2022
LM2022
3 years ago
I put the odds at closer to zero percent, but who knows. Hopefully Putin’s illness takes him quickly before he has the chance.
An interesting editorial today in the NYT from a Russian appeaser Alexander Baunov that claims that since Putin accused the US of taking out the Nordstream pipeline (described as a victory) it frees Putin up to stop all deliveries of gas to the west and allows Putin to take retaliatory action against US and Western European infrastructure. Certainly is convenient from the standpoint of Putin escalation.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
3 years ago
Reply to  LM2022
Keep on telling stories ….to yourself that is… a person with ONE braincell left knows that this is NONSENSE…..Putin is much smarter that all the fn ‘democratically elected’ ???’ ***holes we got for pathetic , corrupt , stupid, leaders …
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
I doubt Putin is smarter than me.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
….but then you are not a leader…
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
I coulda, woulda, shoulda been though. I chose a different direction.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
And you are not man, comrade! You cower in belgian toilet while nato kick your countrymen across Ukraine. Shame , comrade!
Bohm-Bawerk
Bohm-Bawerk
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
You must be pretty smart then because I couldn’t say the same myself. I’ve been around pretty smart folks most of my life and when you get up there at the top it becomes somewhat difficult to determine who is actually more intelligent. The only person I’ve ever known personally that I was sure was smarter than me was David Friedman. Putin may be a sociopath but I don’t think he’s particularly stupid.
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
We will never know who blew up Nerd #1 and #2 and we will never know who will blow nuke #3. It isn’t likely to be Putin. We know that Russia have plenty, but we don’t know if Ukraine already have few nukes. NATO is a volatile organization.
RonJ
RonJ
3 years ago
Karl Denninger: “One year later, post Ukraine declaring itself “not part of the USSR” Crimea held a referendum which passed with 94% support to rejoin what was then the USSR, and declared independence. Mere months later the Parliament of Crimea, without consent of the people, revoked that.

The next year Crimea reversed that decision and drafted its own constitution. Ukraine refused to recognize it even though just a year prior it was all to the good. Uh huh. Oh yeah, that was repeated via a second referendum in 1994 which Ukraine also refused to recognize.A year later Ukraine dissolved the Crimean Parliament and, by pure decree, also dissolved the post of “President” there as well.”

Crimeans overwhelmingly wanted to rejoin what is now the Russian Federation, when Ukraine broke away from the USSR. Long before the 2014 Putin referendum. An interesting bit of history i was unaware of until now.
LM2022
LM2022
3 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Karl Denninger is a tea party wing nut. I think he can be safely ignored.
RonJ
RonJ
3 years ago
Reply to  LM2022
Facts are facts.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
If you control the referendum because you occupy the place with troops then the “fact” is not the truth but what the occupying forces want it to be so your “truth” is not the truth but a lie.
RonJ
RonJ
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Martin Armstrong: “The Donbas and Crimea were always predominantly Russian.”
Denninger: “Crimea held a referendum which passed with 94% support to rejoin what was then the USSR, and declared independence. Mere months later the Parliament of Crimea, without consent of the people, revoked that.”
There was no occupation of troops as in 2014, when the first Crimean referendum occurred. I read the other day that some 80% in eastern Ukraine voted for Yanukovich. I would presume that those people would more likely vote yes, in a referendum on whether to join Russia, without a gun to their head.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
3 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
EXACTLY …. and puppet Zelensky, before he got elected promised to respect the Minsk agreements and would avoid civil war ….As soon as he got elected though, the US ordered him to literally screw the separatist regions…and that s what the nazi mfr did….
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
There was no occupation in 2014 either.
The Russians were allowed 25,000 troops in Crimea by treaty, and they never exceeded even 20,000.
Those troops were there in Sevastopol and environs for years before the troubles started.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
A lot of people in the USA believe the last 2 elections were rigged and that’s in supposedly the greatest democracy in the world!
In other words it’s all but impossible to have a vote because someone like you won’t ever believe it regardless of how it’s done.
The only way would be to line everyone up on the street with UN people present and have them raise their hands while being videoed around the world. But as I said, people still wouldn’t accept the outcome.
Jmurr
Jmurr
3 years ago
Reply to  LM2022

No, he is a very smart guy

Ron Cataldi
Ron Cataldi
3 years ago
Reply to  Jmurr
He’s not a smart guy, he’s a ranting idiot, LOL. His blog looks like a grade schooler learning how to use an 80’s text editor.
Avery
Avery
3 years ago
Reply to  Ron Cataldi
YOLO YMMV !
KingLion66
KingLion66
3 years ago
Reply to  LM2022
A wing nut in your opinion perhaps. And by the way, I have never heard of Karl Denninger.
However, I can say that I used to live in Skadovsk (post ‘Maiden Revolution’ which is only a few kilometers from the Crimean border area). I can attest to the validity of several of Mr. Dinninger’s points.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  LM2022
What if he says it’s 12:45?
You can’t dismiss what is being said just on account of who is saying it.
Then you would be left with authoritative statements, of which we know most are lies (for power & money and vanity).
As it is, he’s simply citing facts that you could look up in wikipedia or elsewhere.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Crimeans overwhelmingly wanted to rejoin what is now the Russian Federation,”
Let them move then.
RonJ
RonJ
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Why? That is where they live. Shouldn’t they have the right to choose who governs them where they live?
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Nope. They have the same right that say Texans have to decide to secede and join with Mexico w/o the approval of the president and Congress. That would be ZERO.
If they felt that strongly about it, that russia would be a better place to live (hard to believe but…), then they should have jumped through all the proper hoops to do so, which might have made the providence independent and then they could choose to merge with russia.
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Yo, idiot. They want THEIR land to be a part of Russia. Who the eff are you to tell them what they should do?
Typical Dumbocrat American exceptionalist you are.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
We’ve talked about this before but the rest of the world is not the USA.
Countries do have separatist votes all the time (Quebec in Canada, Scotland in the UK). Czechoslovakia split into 2 countries etc. Catalonia wants to vote in to leave Spain and will likely get one in the next 10-20 years.
There’s a pretty good argument to be made that being able to cede is the highest form of freedom there is within a country.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
BUT everyone involved has to agree that a referendum is valid and that the results should be abided by. That did not happen in Ukraine, then or now.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Indeed, didn’t the US decide to secede/separate from the British crown?
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
That assumes that casting a ballet into a basket held by a soldier with a gun knocking on your door is a fair election, and that those ballots don’t go in the trash if your vote’s not desirable.
I doubt Crimea was any more fair than the recent “97% vote” was, 97% of the citizens who just had their homes, churches and hospitals bombed, who were tortured and raped, really want said offenders to rule them?
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
Exactly.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
There were international observers and there’s tons of video footage.
And the vote went the same way in the 2014 referenda and all the elections since 1991.
On the whole, more trustworthy than, say, American election circus.
JRM
JRM
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Well you need to check your facts the agreement that brought Texas into the US Union, allows the Republic of Texas to leave the Union at anytime it wants..
They have a President of the Republic of Texas, who will become the official President of the Republic of Texas if they chose to leave the Union!!!
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
They did, like the people of the Donbas and Xerson. At Zelenskiy’s suggestion, they moved back to Russia, taking their land with them.
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
3 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Crimea held a referendum which passed with 94% support to rejoin what was then the USSR, and declared independence.”
That sort of sentiment is the only way Russia may be able to, de facto, “annex” any region of nominal Ukraine.
I doubt the numbers are nearly as stark in Donbas and The South, but the mere fact that separatists have controlled much of the former for yers, and noone in the latter seemed overly bothered by the Russians rolling in in February in the latter, indicates that there is, or at least was, a lot less animosity towards Russia there, than what is being portrayed in Western media.
In general, the formal borders resulting form the Soviet breakup tend to be demographically “inaccurate.” The very nature of the Soviet system, was such that Russians were “transferred”, or at a minimum encouraged to move, to satellite regions. Such that lots and lots of former states ended up, post breakup, with huge pockets of Russians cut off from Russia by accident of history, rather than as a result of “popular will.”
It hasn’t helped the situation that a reliable way of getting funding for politicians in those states, have been to cosy up to The West. With “de-Russification” policies, Russia demonisation and the like. Russians are by nature, or at least culture, a paranoid bunch to begin with. It’s not as if neither Zelensky’s, nor many of his post-Soviet satellite states’ peers’, governments are doing much to allay their paranoia by the way they’ve been acting.
If Kyiv, or The West, were, pre “war”, interested in maximally facilitating people living in the country they wanted to live in, a good share of the residents of Eastern Ukraine would have picked Russia. If borders were then drawn based on voting shares of who wanted to be part of what country: Many of the pro Ukrainians in Donbas could have moved West, while the pro-Russia ones would have moved East. Both to their preferred side of the border.This self reorganisation resulting in formal borders much more in agreement with demographics on the ground. Hence dramatically reducing the possibility of conflict.
That was also the sort of development intended at the creation of Israel: Jews would get their country, and the “Palestinians” in the region would get theirs. With the expectation that people would largely self-sort and move based on which state they felt best represented them. Problem turned out to be: The existing Arab governments refused to cede any land to their “Palestinian” citizens. And Western powers were only willing to back the Jewish state’s borders. With the result that, while the Jews moving to Israel from “Palestine” were OK, the Palestinians moving (being moved…) the other way ended up instead being hoarded into squalid refugee camps and effectively being denied any state of their own. Which, while far from a perfect analogy, is not entirely different from Satelite State Russians being “de-Russified.” With the resulting sentiments, hence potential for conflict, also not entirely dissimilar.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
there is something i heard from black ops guy. back channel negotiations are already happening to negotiate a prisoner swap and truce, and biden will allow russia back on petro dollar system. the spook told me it’s after midterms and most likely in 2024. for politics. have no clue, but this guy has been in this game for 30 years…………it’s funny, the black ops guys off the books of the .gov really don’t give a hoot about talking. i’ve known a few in my life. i like them. not like the typical CIA or special forces on the books boy scouts.
RonJ
RonJ
3 years ago
“Remember the weapons of mass destruction debacle? Back then, many
western governments did not apply the highest standards of verification.”
Weapons of mass destruction was a narrative. Hans Blix was running surprise inspections in Iraq. Never found anything. That didn’t deter Bush Jr. from invading. That Generals Shinseki and Zinni said that he needed up to 400,000 troops in order to occupy Iraq, didn’t deter Bush jr. either.
Lack of standards on verification. There were a couple of whistleblowers about the OPCW investigation of one of the claimed Syrian gas attacks. They were ignored, being they were inconvenient to the narrative.
hmk
hmk
3 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Bush is a war criminal and should be tried and given the appropriate punishment. After deposing Saddam the Muslims slaughtered 10s of thousands of Christians. This doesn’t include all the american and Iraqi casualties. I do thank Bush for opening my eyes to how corrupt and evil our government is. BTW I did vote for him, what an effing mistake.
rjtcm1
rjtcm1
3 years ago
Any educated person knows that in a nuclear war there are no winners.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  rjtcm1
Wooden Ships (2005 Remaster)
Sep 1, 2015
Crosby, Stills and Nash
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Putin’s statements are no different, and in fact a lot less hawkish, than what US politicians have said many, many times over the years. How many times have politicians (from both parties) have said that “nothing is off the table” – even when dealing with weak, non-nuclear nations like Iraq or Afghanistan?

Just look at the 2008 DONORcrat primaries debate where Mike Gravel challenged the usual DONORcrat warmongers – like HR Clinton, FJ Biden and 0-bama about it. And all they did was to literally laugh at his face.

Ron Cataldi
Ron Cataldi
3 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
What nonsense.
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  Ron Cataldi
Welcome to my IGNORE list. Since you have nothing to contribute anyway, that is exactly what I would lose by shutting you off.
Ron Cataldi
Ron Cataldi
3 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
Go ahead and continue lying unchallenged then. US government has never threatened nuclear strikes over some dumb foreign venture.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  Ron Cataldi
Wrong. Has happened many times. Read up about the nuclear bombers on their way to Cairo in 1967, to name just a single incident.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
i tried finding actual betting odds on this, to no avail. used to london bookies taking money on terror attacks and assasinations……….and other unseemly ways to profit from war war war……….
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
The problem is not calculating the odds but on collecting the proceeds.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
last time nukes dropped, most of people on planet were fine.
millera1948
millera1948
3 years ago
Has Putin bluffed heretofore? I would begin with that when assessing the probability of his bluffing now.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  millera1948
You never bluff in Chess. Putin is a chess player (like most Russians) and not a poker player.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
He has lost too many pieces to win so he is going for a draw but his adversaries are not playing chess but Go.
rjtcm1
rjtcm1
3 years ago
What are the odds Hitler was bluffing ?
What are the odds Jesus was bluffing ?
Christoball
Christoball
3 years ago
Reply to  rjtcm1
Jesus never bluffs, but He will pull out a parable or two so that “He who has ears let him hear.”
Why would the creator who put the belt on Orion, or the cluster of stars in The Pleiades need to bluff???
rjtcm1
rjtcm1
3 years ago
Reply to  Christoball
173:5:4 (1895.2) And then, pointing to his own body, he continued, “Destroy this
temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” But they did not
understand him, and as they dispersed, they talked among themselves,
saying, “Almost fifty years has this temple been in building, and yet he
says he will Destroy it and raise it up in three days.”
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  rjtcm1
That’s not a bluff but a statement of fact.
Christoball
Christoball
3 years ago
Reply to  rjtcm1
If you read the text Jesus never said that he would destroy the temple……… 40 years later the Romans destroyed the whole city.
rjtcm1
rjtcm1
3 years ago
Reply to  Christoball
177:5:2 (1927.3) When the rulers of the Jews reach an agreement to destroy the
Son of Man, and when they strike with one accord, you will see the
multitude either flee in dismay or else stand by in silent amazement
while these maddened and blinded rulers lead the teachers of the gospel
truth to their death.
Ron Cataldi
Ron Cataldi
3 years ago
Reply to  rjtcm1
Jesus bluffed when he said he’d be right back though, eh? 2,000 years later… LOL
Mark 13:30 “And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.””
Ehhh…
Christoball
Christoball
3 years ago
Old Man Winter rather than Nuclear Winter decides the victor on the Russian Front. If Putin has not even pulled out the old American “Shock and Awe” trick, why would he use nukes. Think about it; Ukraine’s infrastructure has been left largely intact on purpose.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  Christoball
Putin’s troops are going to be freezing.
———
“Videos have emerged online of Russian officers telling conscripts to bring their own medical supplies and sleeping bags to the front, as Moscow is expected to leave its troops unsupported in the field.”
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
If North Stream is to be repaired it has to be done very soon or the damage will be irreparable. Now this is the time to show the world Russian ingenuity and knowhow. If Russia can’t repair it soon because it can’t then that would be a big sign or confirmation if you will of Russia’s technological decline.
Christoball
Christoball
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Sometimes when a child breaks a toy during a tantrum; a good parent will let the child live with the consequences. I think Russia will let the West live with the consequences of their actions.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Christoball
The Putin child broke Russia and he will live with the consequences.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Actually, it is Russia and the Russian people who will live with the consequences. Assuming Putin isn’t assassinated or thrown in the Gulag, he has more than enough money to live out the remainder of his life in comfort.
——–
Putin speaks about Russia’s “greatness” in a Brioni jacket costing almost half a million Russian roubles
— SUNDAY, 2 OCTOBER 2022, 01:22
Russian dictator Vladimir Putin addressed the Russians from the stage of a concert organised in Moscow in honour of the occupation of part of the territory of Ukraine, wearing a jacket by Italian brand Brioni, costing approximately 8,305 US dollars.
….
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
It’s not like Zelinski couldn’t have a Brioni if he wanted one.
Wouldn’t cost him a dime.
I’m sure the Americans would buy him whatever he wants.
Jmurr
Jmurr
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Easier to build a pipeline to China and India where Biden can’t sabotage it so easily.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Jmurr
Still waiting for them to do it.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Jmurr
Then again there’s the mountains.
KingLion66
KingLion66
3 years ago
My two cents worth based on observations and actually living in Russia off and on for more than 20 years.
First, we know the western governments and particularly that of the United States are arguably the most corrupt and patently evil on the planet and think nothing of killing millions of people if it serves the interests of the money men and the power brokers.
Second, we know that Putin is a nationalist and has a deep and valid distrust of the west. The west has had its eyes on taking over the resources of Russia for more than 100 years. This given the fact that we have been here before with western oligarchs trying to destabilize Russia.
Keep in mind, it was Woodrow Wilson that authorized a US passport to be issued to Trotsky and US intelligence services that snuck him back into Russia to foment the Bolshevik revolution. Wall Street bankers including Jacob Schiff, John P. Morgan, John D. Rockefeller, and the first chairman of the Federal Reserve created under Wilson, a Mr. William Boyce Thompson. This leadership cabal of the US / Wall Street greed club, wanted access to the Russian markets and to get the Russian government to borrow money from western banks.
Czar Nicholas told them to pound sand and threw them out of the country along with their Red Cross cover story co-conspirators.
as things progressed, the greed club led by our government, had the royal family kidnapped in at St. Petersburg and taken to Ekaterinburg, where they used the Bolshevik rabble rousers to murder the royal family to get them out of the way. Which they did, and the business of war and plunder could resume where profit and power flowed to the evil elites.
So… Putin and the Russian people have damn good reason to be concerned about the west and who is running it. (Same families by the way run it now as they have run it for centuries)
Third. We know Putin is a master political chess player. We know the US taxpayers alone have already spent more than the entire annual Russian military budget in the war in less than 9 months. And that’s just the US not to mention NATO members. With that sort of budget thrown at it, shouldn’t Russia have already run home with their tales between their legs? Where did the money go?
Gee, I wonder where… perhaps in the pockets of the corrupt kleptocracy? Yeah… I think that’s where it ended up for sure.
We also know as well, part of point three, Putin is a nationalist that care very deeply what happens to Russia and Russians there, and around the world. He knows that if he actually used tactical nukes, he would turn the ire of the entire world against not just him, but also every Russian speaking human on the planet and put them at risk of violence or death by angry mobs of ignorant but useful idiots, easily whipped to a frenzy by western propaganda.
Fourth, we know that Europeans will be freezing to death and very hungry this winter with energy prices doing what they are and having no chance at normalcy with the nordstream 1&2 pipelines sabotaged.
Europe will eat itself and the people will take care of the problem of corrupt governments and central banks as a result. The alliances between Europe and US governments (US being the center of evil, corruption and kleptocracy among all world governments and anyone with brains and eyes can see it). These alliances will fracture and the empire may finally collapse along with all of its corruption.
Ukraine and it’s borders are little more than a ‘made up’ country following the last two world wars. Today it is nothing more than the latest football pitch where the elites can steal money and set up their latest corruption schemes under the fog of ‘war’.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  KingLion66
I think you still live in Russia.
KingLion66
KingLion66
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Dnipro actually with my family.
And no, not everything you see on the western news or pretty much any western media, is fully accurate.
Full on propaganda war to keep western people from turning their eyes to their corrupt governments.
Remember the ‘Maiden’ revolution in 2014? A bought and paid for Obama exercise to remove an elected government and install a malleable and politically useful one with dependence on the west. I certainly remember that time. I also know what the last 8 years have been like for my in laws over in Luhansk. Hasn’t been a barrel of laughs I can tell you. I may not be right, and I may not be wrong in my analysis of this situation. Though the primary lens I view all things is first to look at who profits. Then to look at who is trying to hide something. Then I look at who will lose power if they lose control over their docile and willingly ignorant population and what is that generational power worth to them.
That tells you all you need to know about how far they will go to maintain and enhance power over the world’s population.
last time I checked, Russia had nothing to do with development of the c19 bug. The CDC did it through their channels at the lab in china. They have admitted this gain of function research took place there and what channels funded it. Personally, I don’t think people willing to do that to the entire world, are people that have my best interests in mind.
Would you not agree with that assessment?
Avery
Avery
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Greta bombed the pipelines, good for the lawn sign virtue signalers.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  KingLion66
Holy man crush, Batman!
KingLion66
KingLion66
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Funny, but no man crush :-D…
My view comes from working in 26 countries over the last 35 years and living outside of the propaganda bubble for most of that time.
Living and working among people and learning from them. Asking many questions and hearing many opinions. Then coupling that information with history, sprinkled with current observations of who benefits and why, from what the latest power grab endeavors they perform.
Tends to provide a pretty clear view of just how ignorant the western world and its people are. You would be surprised how many don’t even know about violent dictatorships such as the Khmer Rouge even existed. They are not taught these things because to know these things, undermines the supremacy of the state. So… the state suppresses factual information from the population through the ‘educational’ system to enhance indoctrination for support of the empire. It has been this way since the Pharos and will be this way until the end of time because to know true can sometimes be a horrible awakening that many people simply cannot handle. Therefore they maintain the ‘safety’ of living in a nepenthe fueled fantasy world of ignorance.
Meanwhile the people who merely want to be free and make their own decisions about their own lives, suffer and die at the hand of this ignorance. Perhaps we can call this effect on the innocent, ‘living in the real world’.
Jmurr
Jmurr
3 years ago
Reply to  KingLion66
Kind of sound like General Turgidson. “We are rapidly approaching a moment of truth for ourselves and the life of our nation”
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  KingLion66
Fifth, we know the below. What we don’t know is how many Russians have deserted over to the Ukraine side, how many Russians are actively sabotaging their own side and how many Russians are now going to live as cripples for the remainder of their lives. All for what? Who owns some land?
———
Russian Armed Forces suffer over 60,000 casualties in military personnel
SUNDAY, 2 OCTOBER 2022,
The Russian occupying forces have lost over 60,000 soldiers since the beginning of the war, suffering losses of 500 on 1 October alone.
Source: General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
Details: Total combat losses of the Russian forces between 24 February and 2 October 2022 are estimated to be as follows [figures in parentheses represent the latest losses – ed.]:
approximately 60,110 (+500) military personnel
2,377 (+23) tanks
4,975 (+26) armoured combat vehicles
1,405 (+8) artillery systems
337 (+1) multiple-launch rocket systems
176 (+0) air defence systems
264 (+0) fixed-wing aircraft
227 (+1) helicopters
1,015 (+6) operational-tactical UAVs
246 (+0) cruise missiles
15 (+0) ships/boats
3,796 (+10) vehicles and tankers
131 (+0) special vehicles and other equipment
Russian troops have suffered their heaviest losses on the Kramatorsk and Bakhmut fronts.
KingLion66
KingLion66
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
And this information is verified by whom?
And this general is supported by whom and who’s money?
I would take this information with a large grain of salt. Especially considering this last week, there were rocket impacts and troop advancement in the outskirts of Dnipro only days after the ‘official’ state of situation said Russian forces were pushed out of the Kharkov region entirely.
So what information is correct? A press release or bomb craters created from nearby artillery advancement? Eyes on it or words on a paper?
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  KingLion66
The fact that you disagree with these numbers means they must be correct.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Well that made sense?
Portlander2
Portlander2
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Why are you touting Ukraine Pravda as a source of truth? In war, truth is the first casualty. Mish’s report about the lies around the war in Iraq, which were reported as TRUTH by our own Pravda on the Potomac and Izvestia on the Hudson should make you wary about believing anything today from partisan sources.
Ron Cataldi
Ron Cataldi
3 years ago
Reply to  Portlander2
Putin would not have called up a general draft if there wasn’t more truth in the Ukraine Narrative than the Russian one.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  Portlander2
You have to believe something. When it comes to Ukraine or Russia, I’ll choose Ukraine.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
I believe I’ll have another beer.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Source: AFU LOL
Those are their own losses, modestly undercounted, projected on the other side.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Fortunately Ukraine has suffered zero casualties except for a corporal that has a hangnail.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  KingLion66
Sorry. You lost me when you said Putin is a nationalist who cares about his people. He is anything but. He is just another mafia boss, dictator, who has spent the last two decades looting his country. If he cared anything about his country he wouldn’t be looting it and he wouldn’t be calling up the weak and aged to send them into the meat grinder that he created.
You are clearly a Russian troll.
KingLion66
KingLion66
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
and your direct personal knowledge of life in Russia is what?
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  KingLion66
I will now hit the IGNORE button on you. I have no need to read comments from a Russian troll. I only have so much time, and I don’t intend to waste it on you.
Bye, bye troll.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  KingLion66
Why aren’t you fighting for your country with a gun, instead of a keyboard troll?
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Not unlike the corrupt Biden and Trump family wealth creation machines.
Bohm-Bawerk
Bohm-Bawerk
3 years ago
Reply to  KingLion66
I’m not sure what is true, but I appreciate the perspective and didn’t know that Russian history. Thanks
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  Bohm-Bawerk
Sorry. His version of history is not true. Stop being a sucker.
Irondoor
Irondoor
3 years ago
It really doesn’t matter what the “odds” are. We just know they are not zero or nuclear weapons wouldn’t exist. We used them, remember? There are two regimes that would use them with higher probability under circumstances due to their isolation and fanaticism: Iran and N Korea. Keep in mind that we have heavily sanctioned both of them, and now severe sanctions have been applied to Russia. But they continue to exist and their leaders are still in power.
Without worrying about whether Russia would use nukes, the only question in my mind is; what will we do if Putin uses a very low yield nuclear weapon or some other form of mass destruction? I believe we will be forced to enter the war and attempt to destroy Russian troops and equipment in Ukraine. This risks spilling over into Crimea and Russia proper.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  Irondoor
If Iran or NK chose to use their very small, limited nuclear capability against any of their neighbors (because that is about as far as they could reasonably reach), they would be smashed into obliteration in response.
Their nuke capabilities are equivalent to a farmer trying to stand up to a government with an AR-15.
Or to quote Foghorn Leghorn “Go away boy, you bother me”.
hmk
hmk
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
I think the taliban did that in Afghanistan. How did that work out. I think they were using Russian AK 47’s
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Iran and NK possess nukes to prevent regime change by the US. The saw what happened in Iraq, Libya etc and don’t want that happening in their countries.
Avery
Avery
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
As of last week the U.S. has been in alliance with North Korea. That was always the October Surprise.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  Avery
Huh?
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Follow the news. Straight from the office of the Vice President of the USA.
It’s on tape.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
ha ha
Dean_70
Dean_70
3 years ago
I remember Powel’s presentation of ‘evidence’ while watching live. You can see from Powel’s body language that he felt uncomfortable presenting the fabrication. During the meeting I was calling BS and it turning out to be an accurate interpretation of the farce.
Thetenyear
Thetenyear
3 years ago
Who knows? I don’t trust either side and I certainly do not trust the media to report on it objectively. What I do know is that the odds of hard core escalation grow stronger every day. It’s not too late to give peace a chance.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  Thetenyear
Agreed. All Putin has to do is withdraw to Ukraines pre-2014 borders and agree to pay full reparations for the damages caused by his forces.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Perhaps after Kiev pays reparations for the damage and loss of life it has caused in the Donbas since 2014.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
If Pooty Poot was crazy enough to start this war, he’s crazy enough to drop a nuke. He probably thinks he’s immune to hellfire and radiation.
Then the real stomping of Russia begins. Ukraine was the appetizer.
rjtcm1
rjtcm1
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Any educated person knows that a nuclear there are no winners.
Avery
Avery
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
You must be confusing him with a mild-mannered haberdasher from Independence Missouri.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
That’s great.
Nuclear winter in the Northern hemisphere will fix the West’s climate change problem.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
3 years ago
When Putin refers to the U.S. instigating the policy of nuclear war by bombing Japan during WWII, he is saying that nuclear war is sacrosanct.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
If Putin drops a tactile nuke on Ukraine and it’s a dud then he would have just given Ukraine material for their own nuclear device. Another thing is that if the Russian army was not able to take advantage of the hole in the lines just created to do a deep drive into Ukraine then using the nuke would have served no practical military purpose whatsoever and for the moment the Russian army is incapable of exploiting a breakout. Consequently a tactical nuke is out of the question. However a strategic nuclear strike would make sense to bring Ukraine to negotiation’s. Of course that means nuking a major Ukrainian city. Is he crazy enough to order that? Yes he is.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
I feel fairly confident that a tactical nuke used on Ukrainian forces would cause mass desertions. If it’s used once, it will be used twice (or more) and soldiers are not robots, they would know they were facing certain death. So the Russian army would not have to exploit a breakout. They would just have to wait for the inevitable enemy desertions and retreats.
I do not believe a strategic nuke is possible at this time. That I do believe would face opposition from Russian generals and others required to launch. Long before using strategic nukes the Russians would use conventional weapons to wipe out infrastructure (dams, bridges, power plants etc) in major cities including nuclear power plants.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
The problem of using tactical nukes is that for it to work it has to hit a large concentration of forces. The problem for Russia is that the the Ukrainians are attacking in a dispersed formation so that a nuke if launched would destroy only a few tanks and troops instead of the large formations which they were intended to do in the Cold War era. The second problem would be the method of launch. If used then Nato would go all out to destroy those assets by any means necessary which would mean in Russia itself. Is that what Putin’s generals see as a winning strategy? Probably not.
It’s hard to judge what the Ukraine solders would do but I think we have a good idea of what the Russian soldiers would do and that would be to run away. If Putin counts on them to enter into a nuked over area to open a breach then I think he will be gravely mistaken. Which side has the more motivated soldiers?
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
I’m sure you know, tactical nukes can be fired from a weapons (howitzers, planes, hyper sonic missiles etc). The West would be unable to take out anything until after it had been fired. Of course firing directly on Russian forces would clearly lead directly to strategic nuclear war (ie ICBM’s being launched on both sides). I do not believe the West would fire directly on Russian forces and start WW III.
You are right about facing scattered forces. So if you are planning to use a tactical nuke you need to mass your own soldiers in an area and prep for a big push (say towards Kiev). Ukraine would either have to allow Kiev to be taken or mass their own forces to oppose. At which time you fire the nuke into their gathered forces. So if / when Russia masses forces in an area for a strike you can start to worry that’s the time when one will be used.
Putin by ‘officially’ annexing those territories as Russian has opened the door for the use of nukes if Ukraine invades because they are invading sovereign territory. Obviously a sham for a reason but it does give the pretext of being able to claim they are being used in defense.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Where would the Ukranians desert to? Their mother’s bosom?
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
To Eastern Ukraine. In other words, anywhere out of the Russian captured territories.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
You mean the soon to be uncaptured territories?
Ron Cataldi
Ron Cataldi
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
To match his strategy, Putin would basically have to nuke areas that he says are part of Russia. “Destroy the village to save it” level of idiocy.
Scooot
Scooot
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
“Of course that means nuking a major Ukrainian city. Is he crazy enough to order that? Yes he is.”
The good thing is he doesn’t know how the West will react, he can only guess, and the last time he did that he got it terribly wrong.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Scooot
His generals might see that as a very bad idea and it is by anyone’s measure. He may order it but it probably won’t be carried out.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Has Putin ever mentioned ‘tactical’ nuke? No?
Has he ever mentioned dropping it in Ukraine? No?
Putin is talking about nukes on Washington in retaliation for NATO/US use of nukes, with which they have been threatening now for quite some time.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Come to think of it, if wishes were horses beggars would ride.
Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear
3 years ago
We’re talking about irrational behavior. In simple game theory terms a tactical nuke strike would not only destroy a valuable war prize, but also bring nuclear fallout to the Kremlin. There is no item in the win column for Russia since a buffer between it and perceived existential threats comes at a significant cost. Paranoia will destroy ya.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  Six000mileyear
Tactical nukes are quite small. Often smaller than the ones we dropped in Japan. They are designed for battlefield use, to wipe a couple square miles of enemy forces. There would be next to no fallout going anywhere other than where they detonated in the Ukraine.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Tactical nukes come in many different size. Fallout also depends on whether it is an air blast or a ground blast. Regardless, in our rumor and media driven world, just the hint of fallout will be enough to panic many people.
Now, with the world winds blowing west to east and China being east of Ukraine, I doubt President Xi would be happy about the potentiality of any fallout drifting into China. Something I think Putin is likely VERY aware of.
———
Fallout can also enter into the stratosphere. In this stable region,
radioactive particles can remain from 1 to 3 years before returning to
the surface.
Avery
Avery
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
How about a shopping cart of cheap smoke detectors? They are usually on sale this time of the year when the clocks change.
Ron Cataldi
Ron Cataldi
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
The entire world would unite to crush Russia if they use a nuke.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Ron Cataldi
The politicians of the entire world wouldn’t unite to save their own mothers.
xbizo
xbizo
3 years ago
The odds aren’t really a normal geopolitical assessment, they are an internal assessment of Putin’s paranoia and if there are enough internal opposing forces that can prevent him from exercising his command prerogative. I have to say that he has telegraphed every move regarding Ukraine since 2014 in the same way. I would say the odds are pretty high for use of a tactical nuke if Putin persists in power.
If it happens, what are the odds of the west responding in kind? Another interesting question.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  xbizo
He has not mentioned dropping a ‘tactical’ nuke, and has not indicated Ukraine as the target.
He is talking about retaliation on Washington for any nuclear strikes from their side.
xbizo
xbizo
3 years ago
Reply to  Webej
He has made the use contingent on protecting Russian territory, which they have now annexed. Disagree completely with you.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  xbizo
How many nukes do the Americans stockpile in Turkey?
xbizo
xbizo
3 years ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
Web says 50….
I did see an opinion article saying that the U.S. / NATO response would be to wipe out all supply lines and Russian conventional forces with a massive conventional assault. No nukes in response, but we would be at war it sounds like.
Art Fully
Art Fully
3 years ago
Putin is making the occupied part of Ukraine sovereign territory of Russia indivisible from the rest of Russia. He says that all means used to defend Mother Russia may be used to defend this new territory. Remember the Cuba missile crisis? The US and the Soviet Union both threatened the use of nuclear weapons before achieving a compromise (the US withdrawing missiles from Russian border areas and the USSR withdrawing missiles from Cuba). Were those threats genuine – I doubt it. Did it scare the pants off everybody including the President of the United States – absolutely. That fear drove the need to compromise. But in this case we have a cavalier attitude toward the Russian threat, we have no fear and offer no compromise. It is an attitude that could lull us into a disaster. The not-so-implicit threat of a formidable nuclear adversary needs to be feared.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  Art Fully
We can’t allow the precedent of invade, annex at gunpoint, then threaten everyone with nukes because you can’t hold the land you stole. This has to stop right here… Armageddon or not.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
All things considered, I’m OK with him annexing Ukraine if it buys another decade of no Armageddon and gives Putin time to die of natural (or otherwise) causes.
2 or 3 more decades would allow me to finish up my life without burning up in a nuclear fire. If that means a few hundred square miles in Europe then I’m all for it.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Then I propose giving Putin most of Canada as long as I can live out my peacefully. Which part of Canada shall we give him?
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
All of Quebec.
Believe me, most of the rest of Canada would be fine with that 🙂
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
No, you have to keep Quebec. Russia wouldn’t want it.
Avery
Avery
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Well the middle is already spoken for by the CCP.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Alaska. It’s contiguous with Russia, already had orthodox churches, and would be a good will gesture by the US who fought a war with Canada over the territory (the third and last military intervention by the US towards Canada).
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Webej
Are you Canadian?
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
British Columbia, as they are already corrupted by the Socialists just south of the border.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Says the fool !
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
I’m up for Armageddon.
Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  Art Fully
great points
hmk
hmk
3 years ago
Reply to  Art Fully
As long as the US isn’t directly threatened we will stop at nothing. if all of Ukraine goes up in smoke it’s ok.damm the torpedoes we’ll stop at nothing to wage a proxy war as long as it benefits the politicians money masters
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Eurointelligence wrote a whole article with the conclusion being that they have no idea which makes me wonder why they wrote it in the first place.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
It’s the question everyone is asking so media companies have to write something. It also provides filler around the advertising.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
“What Are the Odds Putin is Bluffing About Using Nuclear Weapons?”

Impossible to say. But far higher than zero.

Putin is losing the war and losing his grip on power. His conscription attempt has backfired big time as eligible Russians are fleeing the country by any means possible. And he is facing significant criticism at home for the first time. Russia’s economy is crumbling. Their energy production is in decline. They are trying to convince OPEC to cut at least 1Mbpd this coming week to support prices as Russia’s export revenues dwindle. He is now desperate to end the war “on his terms”. His army is in retreat. So he has now annexed the areas he is retreating from, to claim that they are now part of Russia, before he is forced to give them up. Winter is coming. It will be almost impossible to continue to run supply lines. The war is almost over logistically. He has lost so much equipment and so many soldiers that his military is in tatters.
A strongman who is now weak, will be desperate to hold on to power. He is already lashing out and will continue to do so. He wants to negotiate with the west, not with Ukraine. And he will attempt to divide the west, particularly Germany, since they remain the weak link of western resolve. Which is why he sabotaged the Nordsteam pipeline. A reminder to Germany of how easy it is to mess with them. He could easily use tactical nukes in Ukraine, in another attempt to divide the west (particularly Germany) and negotiate better terms.
The problem for Putin, is that the west does not want to negotiate with him. They want him gone. And they are going to support Ukraine. There will be no negotiating annexation.
Putin might not yet realize it; but its over. And when he finally does realize it and is backed into a corner he cannot escape from, he may try to use nukes. But as I have said before, hopefully someone in Russia takes him out before that can happen.
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
LOL. As if anyone who replaces Putin will be a US puppet! (and even if he is, that he would last more than a few months).
This is what William Burns, current CIA Director, wrote when he was US Ambassador to Russia – “Ukrainian entry into NATO is the brightest of all redlines for the Russian elite (not just Putin). In more than two and a half years of conversations with key Russian players, from knuckle-draggers in the dark recesses of the Kremlin to Putin’s sharpest liberal critics, I have yet to find anyone who views Ukraine in NATO as anything other than a direct challenge to Russian interests.”

PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
If you are going to try to put words in my mouth, I will simply IGNORE you so I never have to see another one of your posts again.
I did not talk about Putin’s replacement. And I certainly do not believe whoever replaces Putin will be a US puppet. Where the F did you ever get that idea?
My response was merely an opinion on whether Putin will resort to nukes. What is your opinion on that question? When Mish asks about Putin’s possible replacement in the future, feel free to offer your replacement opinion then.
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Yo, I was responding to your point where you were hoping about someone in Russia taking out Putin. What is the meaning of that hope unless it is to wish for someone “better” (in your mind) than Putin?
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
Your logic makes no sense. The only hope I expressed was that if Putin was desperate enough to fire nukes, that someone takes Putin out “before” he can fire nukes. Which merely says that I do not want Russia to start a nuclear war. It says nothing about who would replace him or whether he would be “better” or “worse”.
But if the replacement wanted a nuclear war, why would he stop Putin in the first place?
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
It is YOUR logic that makes no sense. If it comes to an existential threat for Russia, it is anyone who does NOT want to fire nukes that will get taken out. Not someone who does. And Putin is not so senseless (or suffering from dementia like Joe Fin Biden) to just get up one morning and deciding to fire a nuke.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
“If it comes to an existential threat for Russia, it is anyone who does NOT want to fire nukes that will get taken out. Not someone who does.”
Lol. Thats about the stupidest thing I ever read here. Are you high on something? Or drunk?
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Rrrriiiight. When faced with an existential threat, Russians would just curl up and die, eh?!

And what have YOU drunk? Crude oil?! LOL.

Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Yes it is over but he doesn’t know it yet.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Putin can’t push the nuke button himself. As I understand it, there are two other people in the command chain who must confirm. Either one could refuse to do so. Or someone could put a bullet in Putin’s head.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Thanks for that. I have not looked into how that works in Russia.
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
If Putin ever decides to push the button, it will be in the event of a decapitation strike or in case of NATO military marching into territory that even they would have to concede, is in Russia (it has to be NATO because Ukraine has no capability of doing anything of that magnitude).
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
PapaDave, you were much easier to tolerate when you just ranted about oil and gas.
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
3 years ago
When I was in the army, I went to this stupid NBC course. Nukes, bio, chem. This was when they talked of limited nuclear war. I just looked at the cities inside these little circles we drew on maps to illustrate affected areas and knew limited was not an option.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  HippyDippy
I know what you mean.
They look just like the circles for pandemics.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
The progression of Putin’s escalation will, mostly likely, be as follows:
Knock out power generation, water treatment facilities, key agriculture sites (which for the most part he hasn’t done yet)
Limited chemical weapons attack(s)
Cyber attack on Europe
Cyber attack on the US
Tactical Nukes
Hopefully, the Kremlin puts a stop to Putin once he gets to the chemical weapons stage. If we get to the cyber attack stage, everyone should start to pucker up. Obviously, this would be a major black swan event for the stock markets and would certainly result in Biden being removed from office due to his utter lack of unfitness to serve as president.
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
FJB is hands down the worst US President ever. The least, the very least, the absolute least that any US citizen expects from their President would be that he keeps us out of a nuclear war. FJB has exposed the US (and the world) to a nuclear holocaust on not just one, but on two fronts.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
If the other side starts it, we’re just supposed to bend over and take it?
Deterrence for one side only is no deterrence at all.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
Amen! And it shows how far the Dems have lurched eft to to let him stay in office.
hmk
hmk
3 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
Those Brandon family payoffs from Ukraine are really working. I wonder how much of the US aid is going back into Zelenski’s and his cronies bank accounts. What a great investment by the Ukrainians. A couple of million in bribes and billions in return. We have the best government money can buy. This applies to both useless party’s. The neocon dems and Rs are getting their pockets lined also by the MIC and will stop at nothing in fighting a proxy war until Ukraine is destroyed. I have no doubt that Putin would use a tactical nuke if FJB keeps provoking him, like blowing up their pipeline.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  hmk
U.S. support has been physical weaponry, He’d be hard pressed to deposit a HIMAR into a secret bank account, but they’ve been priceless beating the Russians back….at last count 80K Russian troops either dead or wounded out of action.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
as doug casey writes for decades, just like past crumbling evil empires, the rulers get worse and worse and worse and worse. biden and trump make nixon and lbj look mt rusmore material. most amerikans cannot handle this simple truth of where they live. i vote in italia also. they understand where they have been in history. we are roman empire crumbling. not too difficult. to see. if eyes wide open.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
Putin has the habit of overestimating the abilities of his own people as we have seen several times now. His FSB was supposed to be so good that it would have prevented the EU and especially Germany from supporting Ukraine. Didn’t happen. His armed forces was supposedly be able to take over Ukraine in a few days. Didn’t happen. Russia’s super bots and influencers supposedly would have been able to win over the populations of Europe, the US and the world to Russia’s view. Didn’t happen. His army of super cyber warriors would have paralyzed Ukraine and the West through cyber attacks. They tries and it didn’t work. That leaves only the nukes. Perhaps some people with power in Russia doubt that Putin’s path to victory is flawed and that Putin’s path itself is flawed. Time to uses Plan B which doesn’t include Putin.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Problem with Plan B is that there is at least a 50/50 probability that you get someone worse in charge.
Even if Putin went tomorrow, the West isn’t going to welcome back Russia by lifting sanctions and pretending nothing happened. So who ever takes over just inherits the mess that’s there now with no viable options forward to restoring things economically prior to the invasion. Unless the West does that and just pretends nothing happened then the next leader will essentially just have to continue the same course because they have nothing to gain by reaching peace.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
If we get worse, then we continue on with Plan A. If we get better, we try to work with the new ruler.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Might get someone better also. Plato wrote what happens when a tyrant stays in power too long. They get weird, paranoid and surround themselves with yes men and end up doing really stupid things. Putin is that to a T.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
So was Trump.
So is Biden.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
i think putin’s victory with muslims in chechnya made him really cocky. remember when he blew up the apartments in leningrad and blamed it on muslims, so he could rile up the army………..but alas, nobody knows how this will end. who will win.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
I’m confident that the USA has better cyberwar capability than Russia. IMO, it is likely that we have burrowed deeply into Russian computer systems and when/if necessary, could paralyze the whole county. This would likely only be done before a mass invasion.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Yep.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
You have the wildest fantasies.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
He has no chemical weapons, the US and OPCW cleaned them all up.
He has never mentioned a ‘tactical’ nuke, and the retaliation will be against Washington for using one, not Ukraine or Europe.
Much more likely is that he will seal the border from Poland to Ukraine.
He may take out part of the civil infrastructure to accomplish that, but not for shock & awe.

Decorate Your Walls with Mish Fine Art Images

Click each image to view details or purchase in the store.

Stay Informed

Subscribe to MishTalk

You will receive all messages from this feed and they will be delivered by email.