‘We Will Follow the Law’
Michigan GOP Leaders after meeting Trump, issue a statement ‘We Will Follow the Law’
Seven Michigan lawmakers traveled to meet with Trump for about an hour. The visit came as supporters of the president have moved in recent days to overturn the results of the state’s election, which Democratic President-elect Joe Biden won by more than 154,000 votes in unofficial returns.
“We have not yet been made aware of any information that would change the outcome of the election in Michigan and, as legislative leaders, we will follow the law and follow the normal process regarding Michigan’s electors, just as we have said throughout this election,” House Speaker Lee Chatfield and Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey said in a joint statement after the meeting.
“These are simple truths that should provide confidence in our elections,” they added.
Not Tiddlywinks
The White House press secretary defended the meeting “He routinely meets with lawmakers from all across the country.”
Let’s get real. This was a strange meeting at the very least.
Trump did not invite Michigan legislators to the White House to play tiddlywinks or for idle chat no matter what they actually discussed.
Giuliani Encourages Michigan Legislators to Appoint New Electors
This tiddlywinks maneuver comes at a time when Trump’s lawyer, Rudy Giuliani openly advocated state legislators to appoint a new set of electors who would vote for Trump as noted by Time.
Rudy Giuliani, Trump’s personal attorney told associates that his goal is to cast enough doubt on the election that state legislatures won’t certify the results for Biden. “Rudy told people he was trying to get the legislatures to flip,” a source familiar with the campaign’s legal strategy tells TIME. “Rudy’s view of the world is if he does a good enough job inflaming the results, Pennsylvania won’t certify, Wisconsin won’t certify”
“Trump is losing in court after court, in state after state. So the damage he’s doing isn’t to the likelihood of President-elect Biden assuming office in January 20, which will happen,” says Josh Geltzer, the executive director of Georgetown Law’s Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection. “The damage Trump’s doing is to how large portions of the American public view the legitimacy of that presidency and of our democracy itself. Democratic self-government is one of the great acts of collective faith in human history, and Trump is trying desperately to break that faith.”
The Trump campaign’s legal strategy is “not going to stop Biden from being president; it’s going to be corrosive,” says Ned Foley, director of the election law program at The Ohio State University. “If each and every time we can’t acknowledge the validity of the opponent’s win, then at some point people will stop believing in the process and accepting it.”
After election officials certify the votes, federal law mandates that a state executive, usually the Governor, approves the slate of electors for the winning candidate. If states complete this process before that Dec. 8 safe harbor deadline, they are virtually guaranteed Congress will accept that slate of electors when the body convenes on Jan. 6 to confirm the results.
Georgia is certified. Michigan is next. And that will be that even as Giuliani and Team Trump pressure legislators and election officials in Michigan and Pennsylvania.
Michigan Certification Monday
The Michigan State Board Meets Monday to Certify Election Results.
The role of the board is very narrow and limited. It is to canvass and certify election results. Michigan election law experts told reporters on a press call Friday that the language of the law, which states that the board “shall canvass the returns,” is key to understanding the requirements of the board.
“That’s a mandatory requirement,” John Pirich, a former assistant attorney general to the state of Michigan and current law professor at Michigan State University, said when explaining the laws that govern the board.
“The Michigan Supreme Court has been very clear that ‘shall’ means ‘shall.’ It’s mandatory. It’s ministerial. They have no choice,” said Mark Brewer, the longest serving chair of the Michigan Democratic Party and an attorney at the lawfirm Goodman Acker.
The board cannot ask for an audit prior to certification, according to Michigan law.
If the board becomes locked in a 2-2 partisan deadlock, like what initially happened with the Wayne County Board of Canvassers on Tuesday, two parallel processes can occur.
Liedel said the court has proceeded with contempt proceedings in the past for members of the board failing to certify and that board members refusing to certify could be charged with a misdemeanor or willful neglect of duty. If the issue is not resolved by the Court of Appeals it would go to the Michigan Supreme Court, but Michigan election lawyers agreed Friday that it going to that level is unlikely.
At the same time, Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, a Democrat, has the power to remove and replace any board member, according to Michigan law, and can act without waiting for a court or anyone else.
Can the legislature get involved and appoint their own electors?
The short answer, according to Michigan election experts, is no.
Even if the State Board of Canvassers refuses to certify results and the issue goes to the courts and Whitmer potentially steps in, Michigan election lawyers explained that the legislature cannot try to appoint their own electors.
“You can look through the entire Michigan election code that was written by the legislature and signed by governors of both parties. There is no role for the legislature in this process,” Brewer said.
Michigan will certify on Monday. That’s the proper conclusion. And Whitmer can force it if necessary.
Popular Delusion
Contrary to popular delusion, the Supreme Court is not going to go against state certifications.
This is rapidly winding up.
Team Trump has lost every battle and it is highly doubtful the Supreme Court gets involved in any significant way.
Mish
Not so quick. its clear over the weekend Trump , the GOP and Shirkey have plotted. It’s quite probable Michigan’s votes will not be certified Monday. The plot will fail but we will have more drama. Shirkey tweeted he won’t be intimidated but he seemed to suggest he was talking to Democrats.
“This claim, like Frankenstein’s Monster, has been haphazardly stitched together from two distinct theories in an attempt to avoid controlling precedent,” Brann wrote.
ignore this. I’d delete it but i can’t . its about Rudy’s case in Pa
what does Mish drive? Utah Bill Will Legalize Drivers Running Over Street Protesters
Guess which party wants to make it okay to run over a protestor if you’re “in fear of your safety” while inside your car.
Don’t tell Dan Patrick…..Texas might be next.
The next 4 years could be as entertaining as the last 4 years. I work with some people who grew up in Cuba. They love America. Some citizens forget how great America is compared to other countries.
Newly elected Republican congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis tweeted that a new “anti-socialist squad” is forming in response to the liberal representatives that currently make up a group known as the “Squad.”
An anti-socialist squad is forming…,” Malliotakis, who defeated incumbent Democratic Rep. Max Rose this week to represent New York’s 11th Congressional District.
Malliotakis was responding to a tweet from media strategist Gabriella Hoffman pointing out that two Republicans who “grew up” under socialism were just elected to Congress, and two children of Cuban immigrants, Malliotakis being one of them, were elected as well.
The Squad, which consists of Democratic Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Rashida Tlaib, Ayanna Pressley, and Ilhan Omar, has pushed for radical changes, including defunding police departments, disbanding Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and a Green New Deal, which drew the ire of centrist Democrats following last week’s national election where Democrats lost at least 10 seats with votes still being counted.
Good luck….the US has been a de facto socialist country since 1965….going to be hard to turn that ship around now.
True….there needs to be a balance though. Capitalism is also going to far in the in the other direction in the U.S. too. We mostly have monopolies in most sectors. There is really only 3 hardware stores (HD, Lowes, Mernards), Shipping (Fedex, UPS, USPS), Hotels (Hilton, Marriot, Wyndham), Pharmacies, (Walgreens, CVS, Walmart, Target), Autopart stores( Advanced Auto, AutoZone, O’ Riley), Cellular Providers (AT&T, Verizon, TMobile), Retail (Amazon, Walmart, Target), small town grocery stores and retail stores are now all Dollar General. All the profit leaves those small towns and does not stay in the community.
We need to have more incentives for Small Businesses that is not also part of a franchise chain. Maybe if you are a small business with less than 25 employees you do not have to pay sales tax. Such as the no sales tax that helped Amazon and other internet behemoths become as big as they are now?
Good points!
I guess what I am saying is capitalism needs to have rules that gives everyone a far chance (anti monopolies rules)
We have crony capitalism and corporate control of the state and federal governments. There is no political will to help the mom-and-pops, and no path to reform.
Just get ready to retire and let the net generation deal with it…..that’s about all I have left to do.
At some point the existing system will break down…but we aren’t even close. We could tax out citizens double the current level and we’d be where France and the Nordic countries are NOW. Don’t think we’re as up against it as Zero Hedge and Peter Schiff would have you believe. We have a ways to go.
You may be right. That is why some say Trumpism is not dead. I would call it populisms. People forget that Trump received 11 million more votes than in 2016. Yes he lost the election but he may be more popular than he was 4 years ago. People bash on Trump supporters but for the most part they don’t want to sit back an take it. They want to get off their butt and do something. I stopped by a rally and it looked like it was fun. No whoa is me but instead it felt like lets do something. I am an independent so I try to see both sides. I tried to attend a Democrat rally but they were really none around. Sure there were the BLM protests but they were downers and made me feel like I was the problem? I like to be around positive people in general and try to fix problems instead of complain.
I just wonder how many people on this board actually reach out and email their representatives and senators or instead just post on social media? I am guilty of the social media but I regular reach out to my representative and senators on important issues.
Realist is a Debi Downer. LOL
given that ELECTION WAS IN FACT RIGGED via TECHNOLOGY and NOW NO ONE – like of MISHY and the CABAL of davos/dimwits of DNC
we will likely see the courts PUNT OBVIOUS AND CORRUPT actions by states
ILLEGITIMATE JOE won’t even see Jan 20 at rate he’s going
can’t take simple questions from press(not like they’re journalists)
so let the KAMALA CABAL begin – hope they tax shite out of 1%
Why Trump was always going to fail in Michigan
Because the President almost succeeded in getting the two Republicans on the Wayne County board to not certify many wonder whether he might manage to get the Republican members o the state canvassing board to reuse to certify. The Biden team and Michigan voters would likely turn to Federal or State courts. A court would likely issue a Writ of Mandamus because the board’s duty is clear and unequivocal once it receive the certified vote totals from the counties. Presidential pardons do not apply to state crimes. The governor has the power to remove or suspend from office a canvassing board member for gross neglect of duty or other misfeasance or malfeasance.
The heros are the Republicans standing up to this pressure. And it is kind of funny (actually really sad) that it is not happening in Washington, but in the states. Thank you Secretary Raffensperger and Michigan leaders for respecting the process and standing up for it.
They’re not heroes, they’re cowards for not willing to stand up to the man-child in the White House against his attacks on our democracy.
This site is like a 1950′ typewriter. One shot. You don’t even get a bottle of white-out. This is downright embarrassing.
lol, reminds me of the “good” old days, where you could type the answers to your tests, and compose the answers and type them at the same time with no ability to correct at all.
But, no, this site is not like that, and not even close. You have a backspace and a delete key, and you can fix things as you type them. The only thing is that once you hit “submit” you are done.
You would think for something as important as an online forum where anybody can voice their opinion, you’d see more resources thrown at it. Given the importance of our opinions.
OK. You made me laugh
Accepting the results of a disappointing election is a key part of Democracy. Donald Trump doesn’t understand that so Republicans must.
So far all the judges, whether appointed by Trump or someone else, and all the state legislators and bureaucrats have understood the importance of respecting the vote.
Trump calling and summoning legislators and election officials has to be the most brazen and stupid of all strategies Trump has done this election. It wreaks of illegality. And even if as President he’s above the law these others are not. It’s no accident that all of Trump’s regular lawyers refused to participate. Jenna Ellis, Sidney Powell , Ruy Giuliani and the other lawyers involved in this freak show need to be disbarred.
Drumpf is down by 5 million votes but his flunkies keep trying. Somewhere there is still an angle to pervert the system and corrupt democracy. No actual belief in democracy just winning the game to keep them and their mates rich. It is a recurrent thread through US pseudo democracy. In the past the Dems were the experts at it, currently the Repubs. Not just the US of course, but it is so righteous, while fundamentally being no less corrupt that Russia or Burma or Eygpt
Rudy , powell going on tv was a freaking disaster. The campaign and regular lawyers all distanced from it. Rather than signaling new strategy it signaled the end
Guiliani seems to have gone full clown show. Didn’t know when to quit when he was a hero, like a punch drunk ex champion.
Yeah all the trump gang are starting to resemble the bad guys in batman movies. Bad makeup and all
If the election board had not voted to certify they would have been compelled to do so by a court mandamus. The state legislators have to likewise sign off as a matter of law. It was never optional. This is something poorly understood by many
What I am worrying about is whether these extraordinary voting measures put in because of the pandemic will turn out to be permanent. May I point out that most of these measures are not permitted in any other democracy even during the pandemic.
What measures are you talking about? Vote by mail, early voting? The increase the participation of the electorate.
The massive expansion of voting by mail and early voting are not by itself bad but when combined with the lack of safeguards in voter identification will lead to widespread cheating. The US is not catching up to the rest of the world. The other democracies have very strict controls on who votes. All have picture national identity cards (not drivers licence). All have cross-checked voter roles and all have no hesitation in annulling n election and doing it over if fraud is detected. When Europeans see how lax the voting is in the US they are aghast. Of course if you of the opinion that only your party has legitimacy or that only your party can save civilisation then you would have no problems with fraud as long as your party keeps in power. Some people have that mindset.
Indeed huh, what measures? The US is just catching up with the rest of the world. Last time I voted in person on election day was to show a visitor from an autocracy how it worked.
Many US states have allowed vote by mail for years. The others are only now catching up.
…the lack of safeguards in voter identification will lead to widespread cheating…
what, EXACTLY, are you talking about ?
If you can vote as many times as you want without being caught then some people will because they believe in their cause or are paid or just because it’s fun. Unscrupulous politicians (there are some out there) use these people to swing elections. It’s Tammany Hall style politics. If you personally felt that your party deserved to win for whatever reason and you had the opportunity to vote several times without getting caught would you do it if all your friends tell you that you are saving civilisation? Maybe you wouldn’t but many people would which is why serious democracies put in safeguards to keep that happening. Anyway njbr, you know damn well what I am talking about. You see no problem in ensuring your party wins by any means lawful or not.
Voting by mail does not allow people to “vote as many times as you want.” You should educate yourself.
Without the controls put in place making that impossible then you will get fraud. I can understand why you would not be bothered by it because this time it worked in your favor but not all people are on your side on this issue. What if true election reform happens taking away the possibility of voter fraud? Would you be for or against? I am American although I live in France. Here voting by mail was stopped in 1976 because of fraud. Here they refuse to use voting machines because of fraud. Here your identity is carefully checked and you have to vote in a designated place. If you can’t come because of sickness one person can vote for you but it has to be registered and approved beforehand. and limited to two only. Here every vote is visually checked by representatives of every party before being verified. You have to show your official identity card or passport and your citizenship has to have been already verified a couple of months beforehand. If you are in another country you have to physically vote in a consulate or embassy.
Elections here are rarely contested because of the safeguards. The results are accepted not because of blind faith but because of the safeguards. When Europeans saw how lax our system is they laugh at it, give a wink and say “sure Biden won”.
Could you please tell me your preferred pronoun so I won’t use it.
Technologically, it is now 100% possible to have every citizen vote online using a blockchain system that would make cheating completely impossible.
As far as I can see, the only reasons NOT to do that (which would make mail-in ballots unnecessary and completely obsolete) are…..that it interferes with various little turf battles in the political parties at the state level.
So we have the means…absolutely we do…..to have free, fair, and accurate elections, down to the last man and woman…but we won’t go there…because the existing system is too entrenched.
This is the kind of thing people need to understand. There are people with reasons to hang on to the antiquated system….and they do have to do with who has the power…at some level.
Just like we continue to only have two flavors of political ice cream in this country….it isn’t because it’s the best system….it’s just the best system for the people running the show and their rich corporate cronies.
You don’t need high-tech solutions. I would say high-tech solutions are a drawback specifically because they are hackable. Our system is entrenched but maybe with the widespread problems this time could provoke a backlash where reform could be possible. It’s happened several times before in the US. At some time even party diehards get disgusted and wish for the legitimacy that a fair election provides.
Blockchain is only hackable if you can steal the users’ private key…..which can be kept offline….. It would be very hard to hack a properly designed system…impossible in practice terms.
practical terms…..arrrrgghhh.
Um, to get the ballot you need to request it along with a identifying number such as a drivers license id. How in the world would anyone attempt that without getting caught after impersonating two voters. Also people would vote and then be told they had already voted by mail. None of this has happened, as the fraud would be easy to detect. As mentioned vote by mail has worked in many states for a long time.
Sounds nice but there are a lot of people who had received several ballots for people who no longer live there . All they had to do was sign them and send them in. It happened to many foreigners I know who rent in DC and New York. There no controls and it was designed to be that way. A drivers licence is not proof of citizenship or are you not aware of that? Also please refrain from writing down throat-clearing sounds at the beginning of a sentence. It just looks weird.
Different states do it in different ways….and some are more at risk than others.
The way you described it is the way it’s done with all absentee ballots, AFAIK….but I think (based on recent articles in this election cycle, I don’t claim to be an election expert)..that some states mailed out ballots to all registered voters….nine of them in all.
In a case like that, it is possible to perpetuate some fraud….I’m not a Trump guy, I’m tickled shitless Trump lost…but the system could be more secure. That’s all I’m saying.
Requesting a ballot requires it to go to be mailed to the address of the registered voter. Eddie_T, where is the massive anomaly of double voting, it would stick out like a sore thumb in anyone’s statistics. CISA (formally led by a Trump appointee) says this is the most secure vote we have had. Please describe a plausible scenario where this sort of fraud would be undetected in the statistics, and how a conspiracy which would need thousands of co-conspirators would be kept quiet? Doug, your comments on writing style are just weird.
What I just said is that nine states (and DC) mailed out ballots to all registered voters.
No requests were necessary in those states. Not sure why you want to argue with that…..it’s not in dispute.
Vermont
Nevada
District of Columbia
California
New Jersey
Colorado
Hawaii
Utah
Washington
Oregon
BTW: CISA has the advantage of being in the US and interfacing directly with election officials in the States. Rather than cast aspersions from France.
That was just an example. Most true democracies have robust voting processes to prevent fraud and the appearance of fraud which is just as bad. You cannot just say that X,Y and Z permit mail-in voting as proof of validity. You have to describe the fail-safes that come with it. That should be a given.
No, you have to describe how the actual fraud would occur. And why CISA would not be able to detect it.
Electronic, mail-in, recording or in counting the votes? It’s a vast project.
Right but that has been in place in many of these states for a long time. Does not answer how an easily detectable spike in double voting in order to commit fraud did not occur or would not occur in a future election.
It wouldn’t necessarily have to be double voting. It could be done by buying ballots, or by canvassers doing the exact same thing that Ilhan Omar election workers were accused of in her district in Minnesota……visiting elderly voters where they live and harvesting ballots.
I’m not saying they were guilty of that in the case in question..or that any widespread voter fraud occurred…I don’t even think that. But I do see the system as being less than perfect.
Thanks for your reply it sound interesting.
“It could be done by buying ballots, or by canvassers doing the exact same thing that Ilhan Omar election workers were accused of in her district in Minnesota……visiting elderly voters where they live and harvesting ballots.”
So is there a court case or something like that so I know this is just not some internet rumor? There should be judgement since it would have happened two years ago.
BTW: Buying ballots… You run into the vast conspiracy that everyone magically keeps secret.
And “buying ballots” you can easily do that through the old system. Ever wonder why liquor stores use to be closed on election day?
I prefer mail-in voting and think it should be available to all.
But it does add to the opportunity to cheat, and if cheating is possible, it will happen.
So we should be investigating ways to ensure that voting is both convenient and secure. That shouldn’t be a partisan issue.
How is mail in voting more capable of cheating? Please provide plausible examples and why and wide scale fraud would not be evident.
» great acts of collective faith «
In other countries they use verification instead.
–Who thinks using a float instead of a dword to keep track of votes is good practice?
–Who can think of good reasons in this day and age to throw away the paper trail instead of marking it with hashed codes and scanning it so you can essentially repeat the process, kind of like banks would do to ascertain what is going in and out of accounts?
I hope biden taxes shit out those with over $1,000,000
like you mishy