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Judge Blocks Trump’s Move to Ban Harvard from Enrolling Foreign Students

This took the expected time, less than a day.

Temporary Restraining Order Background

This morning I reported Trump Stupidly Blocks Harvard From Enrolling Foreign Students

Trump’s latest move on Harvard is likely illegal but certainly stupid.

Trump is holding 6,800 innocent kids in his stupid power play with Harvard.

Services Surplus

The US runs a goods trade deficit, but a services surplus with most of the world.

Higher education is a big part of the US services surplus. US students get scholarships and financial aid. Foreign students pay the full sticker price.

The US should welcome the best and brightest minds in the world to study here.

Instead, Trump threatens to kick them out. In doing so, he is single-handedly destroying America’s research base.

Why?

Harvard bruised Trump’s fragile ego by not kissing his ass.

Please recall this all started in April when The Letter to Harvard Setting Off Trump Confrontation Was a Mistake

Oops, the letter was a mistake.

I expect the courts to quickly squash this obvious idiocy. Trump has truly lost it … again.

And Quick It Was

The Washington Post reports Judge temporarily blocks effort to ban Harvard from enrolling foreign students. This is a free link.

Harvard filed a lawsuit Friday morning after the Department of Homeland Security revoked the school’s certification to enroll international students. The government said Thursday foreign students must transfer from the university or risk losing their visa status, escalating President Donald Trump’s pitched battle with the Ivy League school.

“Today’s ruling delays justice and seeks to kneecap the President’s constitutionally vested powers under Article II,” DHS assistant secretary Tricia McLaughlin said in an email. “It is a privilege, not a right, for universities to enroll foreign students and benefit from their higher tuition payments to help pad their multibillion-dollar endowments; that fact hasn’t changed.” She said the Trump administration is committed to “restoring common sense to our student visa system, and we expect a higher court to vindicate us in this. We have the law, the facts, and common sense on our side.”

On Friday, just hours after the lawsuit was filed, Judge Allison Burroughs in U.S. District Court in Massachusetts ordered the Trump administration to take no action on the visas while litigation on the matter continues.

Homeland Security Secretary Kristi L. Noem on Thursday had ordered the agency to terminate Harvard’s Student and Exchange Visitor Program certification, which allows U.S. universities to admit international students. Noem said the university has allowed “anti-American, pro-terrorist” foreigners “to harass and physically assault individuals … and obstruct its once-venerable learning environment,” and she accused the university of hosting and training members of the Chinese Communist Party’s paramilitary group.

A post-doctoral researcher who spoke on condition of anonymity out of a fear of reprisal to her visa status, said she came to Harvard Medical School to do cancer research because “Harvard is, Boston is, the epicenter of medical research in the world – there’s nothing else like it. … There’s no question too big.”

More than half of the people in her lab are international students, she said, and “everyone’s very scared that at any minute they could be deported.”

Question of the Day

Q: Why does it make any sense at all to stop 6,000 enormously talented people who want to come to the United States to study, from having that opportunity?
A: This is vicious. It is illegal. It is unwise. And it is very damaging.

Q&A by Larry Summers.

I agree on all counts and I cheer the court’s prompt smackdown.

Trump Has Idiocracy on his Side

Trump is taking a US international competitive advantage and pissing on it to satisfy a personal vendetta against Harvard that started with a letter that was not even supposed to be sent.

The blocking order is temporary, but I fully expect it to become permanent.

Trump is petty, vindictive, and economically illiterate in many ways. Banning foreign students on absurd grounds would be a very poor move even if it was legal.

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Mish

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97 Comments
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young.jury
young.jury
1 year ago

I wrote my first ever blog about this, I would really appreciate if you would check it out. It’s called Young Jury, and it’s a blog written to encourage teenagers to stay informed, ask questions and really understand what’s happening in the legal world around us and how it affects us. Thank you for your time! 🙂

young.jury
young.jury
1 year ago
Reply to  Mike Shedlock

Thank you!

Patrick
Patrick
1 year ago

I see a lot of linear extrapolation of doom and gloom. It appears that subjects of the Empire are its most ardent defenders. Have fun with that.

Patrick
Patrick
1 year ago

Burroughs holds a losing hand. Judges have wide latitude to issue TROs. But Article III controls foreign entry to the US. Not the courts.

Lefteris
Lefteris
1 year ago
Michael Engel
Michael Engel
1 year ago

1M NQ is < July high. 1M SPX closed above on Fri. If u glue: Feb, Mar and Apr together u get a large red bar which opens at Feb open with a shadow to Feb high. to the top, and a large buying tail from Apr low to Apr close. May, with 4TD to go, is a green inside bar. Feb high minus Apr low is: 1,300, a one year range. Glue 1M NQ Feb, Mar and Apr. May is a green inside bar.

Last edited 1 year ago by Michael Engel
Albert
Albert
1 year ago
Reply to  Michael Engel

Have a cup of green tea and try to reflect on what you are doing with your life.

Michael Engel
Michael Engel
1 year ago

7,000 students x $85K/Y is a $600,000,000 hit on Woke, Pritzker and Garber for disobeying Trump.

realityczech
realityczech
1 year ago
Reply to  Michael Engel

still don’t want to address the civil rights act violations with harvard, eh? Is Biden cancer free, too?

Michael Engel
Michael Engel
1 year ago
Reply to  realityczech

F**K Harvard,Yale and Columbia, Hamas incubators. The Sinwar bros are dead, but Garber and Pritzker, two self hating Jews, protect a terrorist group, under the banner of freedom.

Last edited 1 year ago by Michael Engel
Michael Engel
Michael Engel
1 year ago
Reply to  Michael Engel

Dr McDougall: 70% of men over 70Y have prostate cancer. Once it spread to the lymph nodes u are gone, but most don’t. Most prostate cancer are harmless for decades, Most men with a pipeline from their dick, or their bladder, through their belly button, to a plastic bottle, die from blood poisoning.

Last edited 1 year ago by Michael Engel
Michael Engel
Michael Engel
1 year ago
Reply to  Michael Engel

Do the Kegel. Build your pelvic floor and maximus muscles. even if u are old, to keep your balance, to prevent falls and incontinent.. Pampers are better and cheaper than a plastic pipeline with fungi and bacteria.

Last edited 1 year ago by Michael Engel
Patrick
Patrick
1 year ago
Reply to  Michael Engel

That’s more than a Penny for her thoughts. Pritzkers were patron saints of Barrack. Who by the way went to Harvard Law. And who then put Penny in his cabinet. Etc.

peelo
peelo
1 year ago

No worries. Young people will be sewing t-shirts.

peelo
peelo
1 year ago

His view of the world is somewhere between pre-Adam Smith mercantilism, and gated luxury realty infantilism.

bmcc
bmcc
1 year ago

I BMCC, worked at NASA on a grant, while attending graduate school.  My mentor, was our prof and project manager at Goddard Space Flight Center.   Great memories.  Could be a commie, too.    

bmcc
bmcc
1 year ago

chairman mao zeDon ain’t stupid. he is playing the commie anti intellectual game. also his real goal is just being in world headlines every night. his cult are like the commies in red china in 60s and 70s. they hate landowners and educated…………ironic as hell. the great leap forward with Maga cult of morons.

peelo
peelo
1 year ago
Reply to  bmcc

Great Leap Forward fiasco plus Cultural Revolution fiasco. All at once.

bmcc
bmcc
1 year ago
Reply to  peelo

the red brigades were launched on my birthday in 1966. like the jan 6th commies.

realityczech
realityczech
1 year ago

The warm embrace of corruption (along with what appear to be legit accusations of civil rights act violations) isn’t a good look. Harvard has been exposed as a cesspool of bigotry, woke nonsense and plagiarism. Hardly an institution worth defending, yet here we are.

Lefteris
Lefteris
1 year ago
Reply to  realityczech

And anti-semitism, which in my opinion, originates from the desire of University Professors, eternal geeks, to appear as “Rebels”… because this also makes them more attractive to female students (“authority figure + rebel = we might get laid”). My experience from universities tells me it’s 100% sexual – they want to appear younger and rebellious like their students, and get laid like them. They don’t want to be like Leonardo Da Vinci (this requires brains and talent), so they chose Che Guevara.
And while they say they are anti-capitalists, Elite Universities are “Top Capitalism” (tax-exempt status + taxpayer funds without accountability).
“a fish stinks from the head”, right?

Last edited 1 year ago by Lefteris
Patrick
Patrick
1 year ago
Reply to  realityczech

Welcome to Harvard, the beacon of higher education. What are your pronouns? If you’re a POC welcome again! If you are white, do you have the requisite guilt for being so? If not, we will work on that for you. Hang your head in shame. But don’t worry, since you will have a Harvard degree, you will make money and gain power and influence, even if you know very little about anything. Knowing things is not important, that’s why we import foreign students, so that they will know things and then we can pay them less for it. But knowing the right people, now that’s the ticket.

+888
+888
1 year ago
Reply to  Patrick

In my hard science field, speak about pronouns/politics, get disciplined. Even if the college is seen as woke (because of those studying sociology) by the general population of the country.

+888
+888
1 year ago
Reply to  realityczech

Said by the 1 believing there’s woke ways to solve discrete logarithms or perform study of nuclear physics…

A hatred of knowledge in general instead of where it matters.

19 AI T4
19 AI T4
1 year ago

It makes sense that trump hates those that are competent, creative and share knowledge.

Trump is old and his brain is not functioning very well.

realityczech
realityczech
1 year ago
Reply to  19 AI T4

competent! lol! like claudine gay, the plagiarist who still works as a professor at harvard making 900k/year. ok dude, call me when the shuttle lands.

Lefteris
Lefteris
1 year ago
Reply to  19 AI T4

“Creative”? No. They just talk about the giants in arts, but they are no artists themselves. That’s why they talk a lot more about Che Guevara than Leonardo Da Vinci. Noam Chomsky et al were praising Pol Pot, and… don’t get me started.
But a distinction has to be made between the Liberal Arts professors (who hate the fact that Isokrates was the founder of liberal arts as an establishment, because he was an imperialistic nationalist) and the STEM professors. Some of the latter have proven their competence in the real world. The former have only destroyed art and discourse.

+888
+888
1 year ago
Reply to  Lefteris

In the case of those studying discrete logarithms (a field of encryption), I can confirm you don’t known what you’re speaking about.

Or maybe you believe there’s woke way to perform maths which means you have a ʀᴅꜱ (Researchers Derangement Syndrom)

Irish
Irish
1 year ago

Trump needs to be taken to the city dump

dtj
dtj
1 year ago

It’s going to take a while for the “official” economic data to catch up to the damage Trump has done to the economy. Permanently scaring off international students is just one day’s worth of damage.

So far we have tourism down, trade down, auto sales down, inflation up, job market getting worse, housing market tanking. The list goes on and on.

The financial press is doing its best to spin the news to paint a happy picture, but reality will finally win out and be impossible to cover up.

Avery2
Avery2
1 year ago

5.03%

Lefteris
Lefteris
1 year ago

Two cases: a) My editor’s daughter from Greece was accepted at Yale (Medical), full scholarship, all expenses paid. They even paid all expenses for her parents to visit her at some point, and asked (!) the parents if they needed a better hotel. She was a good student back in Greece, but not that good.
b) I happened to be (according to a secretary) the first student in the history of a certain private university in the US who registered… by fax (from Greece!) back in 1997. No scholarship in my case, I never applied, I worked and paid “out of State tuition” (higher). But I said to myself “why was it so easy?” and I attributed it to my age (28 at the time) and my professional experience. Later on, I discovered that there was a strong bias in favor of foreign students, regardless of grades. The staff in almost all universities would also make it easier for foreign students to enter PhD programs and participate in research.
Wake up people. Mish, please don’t be like a stereotypical gullible Scandinavian.

Avery2
Avery2
1 year ago
Reply to  Lefteris

The “State Flagship Universities” in Wisconsin, Illinois and Michigan have been playing preferential admission out-of-state / higher tuition game for years.

Lefteris
Lefteris
1 year ago
Reply to  Avery2

I can understand why universities prefer out of State tuition students (more money) such as in my case, but then there are also thousands of cases like (a) above: Full scholarship for “B+” foreign students while ignoring “A” local students. My editor’s daughter was given a scholarship equivalent (as they said) of about 85K per year. Also, a detail I forgot to mention: she didn’t originally apply when she was still in Greece – they sent her (twice) invitation letters! Yale!
After graduation she returned to Greece (that was 2 years ago) because she couldn’t stand the woke culture, as she said herself.
I met a lot of uni staff through my first fiancée in the US (at the time living in Oak Park IL and participating in plenty of “scholars” gatherings, which I quickly characterized as meetings of closeted alcoholics and pretentious snobs)… and I can tell you almost all suffer from xenomania. They love everything foreign and hate almost everything domestic. My own fiancée at the time had bought a coffee thermos labeled “I’m dating a foreigner” and headed a French conversationalist group. When I told her that the French were the biggest chauvinists in Western Europe, she acknowledged it (she had lived there), but she characterized it as a charming cultural quirk.
During a wine tasting, the Portuguese wine seller took me aside and asked me, more or less, “how can you stand them… I could sell them piss and they would buy it just because it’s foreign“.

Lefteris
Lefteris
1 year ago
Reply to  Avery2

PS1. My experience with how easy it is for foreign students to be admitted and promoted in US universities, is what’s making me doubt the qualifications of all those Middle Eastern students who all of a sudden end up in PhD programs.
PS2. Without anyone telling me, my diagnosis of Americans during my first years was “massive inferiority complex”. You guys are very easy to be put down and made feel bad about yourselves. It’s a bad habit.

MI6
MI6
1 year ago
Reply to  Lefteris

It is true that some universities make a deal with foreign countries to accept X number of students from them (who might not be the brightest crayons in the box), for which the foreign government pays alot of money, which basically subsidizes education for US students. Aside from that, which is somewhat rare, foreign students don’t get a break. I’ve been in academia for 25 years and hold appointments at three colleges so forgive me for saying I should know. Perhaps your editor’s daughter got a scholarship from some alumnus who set up a scholarship for students from the old country. I can’t think of anything else. Or perhaps your editor’s story is not entirely correct.

Last edited 1 year ago by MI6
Lefteris
Lefteris
1 year ago
Reply to  MI6

This is in contrast with case (a) I described above. And I know from the all “foreigner” clubs I’ve participated in my early years, that foreign governments very rarely subsidize studies of their citizens abroad (no European country does it, except for single-digit cases). It’s a lie that Americans have swallowed without anyone investigating it, and as any other unchecked practice, it has become an epidemic. Yes, there are cases of wealthy foreign families who pay out right in cash.
But the scholarships of the other ones are ultimately paid by the American Taxpayer.
A thorough investigation is needed. Though Universities would never accept it. They want to be subsidized by taxpayer money AND be tax-exempt at the same time.

Last edited 1 year ago by Lefteris
MI6
MI6
1 year ago
Reply to  Avery2

Yeah, but that’s for undergraduates who have to pay out of state tuition which is about 3X what instate students pay, follow the money.

realityczech
realityczech
1 year ago
Reply to  Avery2

As have the UC schools, and despite what CA taxpayers have voted for, they still practice affirmative action. The college scam goes much deeper than NCAA.

bmcc
bmcc
1 year ago
Reply to  Avery2

time to defund state universities with state gov money. let them all be private. /sarc

MI6
MI6
1 year ago
Reply to  Lefteris

In alot of sciences there are more graduate student slots than there are qualified US applicants. So, foreign students get accepted.
Science and engineering grad students are ultimately funded by their dissertation advisors who are going to demand top return on their dollar, which mostly comes from federal research grants. (Grad students get a stipend and tuition from being research assistants for their advisor). They aren’t going to accept anyone just because they come from a foreign country.

realityczech
realityczech
1 year ago
Reply to  MI6

That is the laziest excuse I have heard today. Well done. Have a cookie.

Lefteris
Lefteris
1 year ago
Reply to  MI6

<<just because they come from a foreign country>>
Don’t try to reframe the issue. I never said “just because”. I said there’s a strong bias in favor of foreigners, regardless of grades.
It’s typical unjustified xenomania (the complex of hillbillies and tyrants). Foreign students are more obedient in their minds, thus more desirable. Aristotle said xenomania was a characteristic of tyrants (since foreigners never challenge local rulers).
Personally I have not encountered any other group in American society hating Americans as much as university professors do. And my old English Comp. professor used to engage in intellectual conversations with me (the foreigner) personally and at length, ignoring the other students who were actually the ones needing help with composition. It’s as if English Comp 101 was a field to reconstruct Immanuel Kant (for entertainment purposes, which is the main scope of liberal arts nowadays), and not to help the struggling young American students put two sentences together.
However, he taught me something American: “I understand that in other cultures you use the word “we” all the time, but in America we use “I” – as your beliefs are individual beliefs“. What a double-edge sword, I replied, on the one hand you empower individualism, and on the other hand you discredit one’s view as the opinion of only one person, thus a weak opinion, completely eradicating the concept of common sense.

Last edited 1 year ago by Lefteris
peelo
peelo
1 year ago
Reply to  Lefteris

It is good for our trade deficit. It is the same as exporting goods or services. Trump doesn’t get that.

Bill
Bill
1 year ago

Regardless of the ruling, it would be nice if the government would do the right thing all the time and within one day. One. Day. Proves it can be done…so why isn’t it done on anything other than blocking DJT?

realityczech
realityczech
1 year ago
Reply to  Bill

because even when evil orange man does something that makes sense, their liturgy says he must be impeached. There’s no reasoning with ignorant.

Lefteris
Lefteris
1 year ago
Reply to  realityczech

When people (and entire nations) feel safe, they engage in petty partisanship. Ever since the US because a nuclear super-power, especially after the fall of the USSR, it also became complacent. It’s human nature. All Americans saw Germany and Japan as a serious threat in the 40s, and partisanship was minimized. Headlines were “US vs. Japan”, not “Reps vs. Dems”. Serious threats made American society a lot more serious in their thinking. The threat of the USSR made Americans ultra serious.
Nowadays we feel safe from the outside world, that no matter what we do to our country and countrymen won’t have a serious impact. Universities have become Country Clubs. Everything is partisan, for entertainment purposes. America is living in a corrupted play-land, and it will become serious again only if an outside threat becomes serious.

MPO45v2
MPO45v2
1 year ago

Even though Trump lost (at least temporarily), the damage will last for at least the rest of his administration. If you’re a high school student in any foreign country and you get offers to go to school in the US, Europe, Canada, Asia, or somewhere else and you know it’s a roll of the tantrum dice if you’ll be able to stay in the U.S., you’ll just choose to go elsewhere.

As the best and brightest start building an ecosystem powerhouse elsewhere, the US will lose out. France has seized on this and is offering scientists relocation packages to leave the U.S. I expect that to accelerate across the board.

https://sciencebusiness.net/international-news/france-creates-platform-attract-us-and-other-disaffected-researchers

Got exit strategy?

Lefteris
Lefteris
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

<<As the best and brightest >> They’re not always the best and brightest. In many cases they’re the ones not accepted in universities of their own countries or average students who want to enjoy better economic opportunities after graduation.
If anyone ever investigates the grades and qualifications by which those students were admitted… It’s to the point that “B” students are admitted even from Asia with scholarships while the local “A” Asians are subjected to racial quotas (even Harvard admits it).
I don’t like the level of superficiality of articles in this forum, which was much better in the past. Mish has become something like “reacting to NYT articles” or “reacting to marketing brochures”. Zero level of deeper investigation, and real experiences are shunned by the readers.

MPO45v2
MPO45v2
1 year ago
Reply to  Lefteris

Sounds like a perfect opportunity for YOU to start your own blog and provide all the detailed research you seem to have. What’s stopping you?

Just go to wordpress.com

MI6
MI6
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

My son is applying for grad school in the UK and Canada. This year basically no one (in physics) was accepted because of the uncertainty in federal research grants so I told him to do that. I get weekly emails from NIH about what funding is available. This is what it says:

Funding: No funding is available.

This is not a good time to get cancer, kids.

realityczech
realityczech
1 year ago
Reply to  MI6

Good closing…. you’re on a roll!

Lefteris
Lefteris
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45v2
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago

Wait till Harvard’s tax-free statue is removed. If Harvard doesn’t change it will happen. In the meantime the Democrats are again forced to defend tooth and nail woke policies that are unpopular with the public. The students have five months to find another school and most will.

Lefteris
Lefteris
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78

If those students applied to other schools on a merit basis, lots of them would not be accepted.
And there’s no reason for such schools to be exempted from taxes – and the proof is the size of their endowment funds. I’m amazed at how many cosplay libertarians support tax exempt status for universities accumulating more assets and cash than Warren Buffet.

bmcc
bmcc
1 year ago
Reply to  Lefteris

churches and universities should pay taxes. stop funding state u and k through 12 with our tax dollars too. waste of our pocket books.

Lefteris
Lefteris
1 year ago
Reply to  bmcc

Definitely. I have heard of churches amassing tons of cash without paying taxes, although they are engaged in business activities, just like universities. It’s to the point that I’m thinking of changing my job status from “translator” to “First Catholic Academy of Translations”… 🙂 🙂

EADOman
EADOman
1 year ago

I read a good description of the difference between socialists, capitalists and fascists this morning.

Socialists want state ownership over the means of production – factories, farms, mines, etc.

Capitalists believe in private ownership and control over production.

Fascists want to control the means of production but leave it in private ownership.

Where does Trump fit?

Art
Art
1 year ago
Reply to  EADOman

It appears Door number 3 is the winner. 🙂

Andre
Andre
1 year ago
Reply to  EADOman

capitalists.
dems are now the 3rd category.

Triple B
Triple B
1 year ago

Idiocracy to the 9th degree. Garbage in gets you garbage out. All you can do is watch and hope for the best. The whole thing reminds me of the Three Stooges running the government, and Trump is Moe.

Lefteris
Lefteris
1 year ago
Reply to  Triple B
Frank
Frank
1 year ago

Before the election we were told by the anti Trump crowd how he would act like a dictator and so far he has proven them right. However, what no one seems to take notice of, is how resilient our system is in preventing a president from becoming an actual dictator.

Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank

But didn’t he say that he would be a dictator for only one day? You can’t believe anything that Trump says!

KPStaufen
KPStaufen
1 year ago

Let’s call the first five months of the Trump administration what it is: an affront to the Constitutionally designed governing balance of power and a running series of full frontal abuses of power.

Jane
Jane
1 year ago
Reply to  KPStaufen

Pretty sure that was the Biden administration…

Scott
Scott
1 year ago

My question is why do tax payers have to support these universities just to have these universities turn around and deny their own people admission. But they are more happy to accept the increased tuition from the foreign countries. Sorry, but that is flat out wrong. You want to do that …. then no tax payer money then.

KPStaufen
KPStaufen
1 year ago
Reply to  Scott

The government does not support “these Universities,” the government funds grant requests from those graduate students at these universities who are conducting medical, physics, and technological research that is the very foundation of the technology innovation and medical breakthrough innovation that has made our modern lives that way they are and has probably saved the lives of people you know.

Phil in CT
Phil in CT
1 year ago
Reply to  KPStaufen

Aww shucks, who needs all this fancy shmancy books and learnin’ in the first place… A little horse paste will fix jes about anything

realityczech
realityczech
1 year ago
Reply to  Phil in CT

you sound like you need Pfizer’s new combo pack of booster #8 with some TDS gummies.

Phil in CT
Phil in CT
1 year ago
Reply to  realityczech

Which aisle at tractor supply is that? I but all my meds there as well as my wife’s feed

MI6
MI6
1 year ago
Reply to  KPStaufen

Thank God. Finally someone who understands how research vs. education gets funded. I’ll point out it’s not just grad students of course, professors and scientists at colleges generally get some or all of their salary from research grants. At R1 universities, which are roughly the 100 biggest colleges in the US, 80-90% of the actual work done is research. Education is a very small piece of the pie and is funded by state taxes (for public schools) and tuition.

Example: the small college I went to developed ways of creating extremely transparent glass, funded by federal research grants. This was before the internet and at the time it didn’t seem to be a big deal; the work was done to see if nuclear waste could be dissolved into glass that would be safe for disposal for millions of years, the transparency was part of the path to that. But, it made fiber optics possible and hence the internet. No corporation would have done this sort of research, there was not really any particular reason to think it would have paid off at the time. But there you go. High speed (non-dial up 54K baud) internet for about five million bucks. I’d call that a bargain. Multiply that by a thousand and you see what taxpayers’ returns on federally funded college research look like.

PreCambrian
PreCambrian
1 year ago
Reply to  Scott

It is a private university. They do get funds from the federal government for research and other activities. Even the state universities are mostly supported by state funds.

Lefteris
Lefteris
1 year ago
Reply to  PreCambrian

Harvard has an endowment fund exceeding 50 million. I guess their “research” is on how much cash they can accumulate.

Flavia
Flavia
1 year ago
Reply to  Lefteris

Universities don’t spend their endowments – they invest them, and spend just the earnings.
That way, the endowments last in perpetuity.

Last edited 1 year ago by Flavia
Matt
Matt
1 year ago
Reply to  Scott

You are confusing research with admissions. They are separate. Tax dollars go to the universities for science research. Since WWII the US government has subbed out it’s research to Universities to perform instead of hiring and maintaining its own large research laboratories. This research is what has allowed the USA to be a leader in technology.

  • Essentially what you are saying because you except foreign students we don’t want you to research cures for cancer, and cures for Alzheimer, and how the universe works etc etc. Examples Harvard Medical School played a crucial role in developing tissue culture methods for the polio virus, paving the way for vaccines against polio. Harvard scientists have been involved in developing gene editing platforms like base editing and prime editing, with applications in treating genetic diseases.

(Yes i know pell grants and some federal money goes to schools to help pay for admissions, but that is peanuts compared to the research money)

I am also a contractor that has done work at another Ivy League research university. The construction and renovation of labs has fed my family and housed them for many years. There is a whole construction industry that this supports as well in the building, maintaining, and renovating of lab spaces. I know how the removing of the funds would effect the surrounding economies as well.

MI6
MI6
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt

Matt: Ditto.

Lefteris
Lefteris
1 year ago
Reply to  Scott

Please read my entry above. Because I have experience and some insight on the matter.

realityczech
realityczech
1 year ago
Reply to  Scott

Bingo. If Harvard wants to fly the Qatari flag, promote academic frauds and put a keffieyeh – today’s swastika – on the library, they should be allowed to do that.

But no federal funding, no students taking federally guaranteed loans and no research dollars.

They need to stop their whining and decide if they think the civil rights act of 64 is worth abiding by or continuing to treat it like a roll of softness and absorbency.

Dan
Dan
1 year ago

I am not taking a position on Trump either way. A sizable percentage of high tech foreign students get trained in the USA with our cutting edge knowledge and then return to work in their country. How many of them become direct competitors to the USA? Do you think countries like China allow USA students to learn their latest tech? I personally know quite a number of Chinese students who attended schools like MIT, Cal-Tech, Stanford and Univ of Berkeley who returned to China after graduating and set up high tech companies that sell to the USA. Maybe I am dense, but that has always bothered me.

Frank
Frank
1 year ago
Reply to  Dan

There are no business competitors to the USA or any country. That is a Mercantilist view of economics that Trump is trying to make relevant again. We opted for free markets and capitalism in the US. They may produce a company that is a threat to a US based company, but that is a completely different thing and has nothing to do with the US government.

MPO45v2
MPO45v2
1 year ago
Reply to  Dan

There is nothing at MIT, Cal-Tech, Stanford or any other university that you can’t find online. There is no such thing as “our cutting edge knowledge.” Most of these schools offer their entire curriculum online for free, all you have to do is look for it. Here is MIT’s coursework.

https://ocw.mit.edu/

What the “degree” entails you are network connections and street-cred that you attended the university and passed. For the really intelligent, you get research grants to experiment.

It won’t matter much more anyway once AI is able to absorb and spit out the knowledge of the entire world in a matter of seconds.

Jojo
Jojo
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

Speaking of which on a pre-weekend Friday, this should be considered mandatory reading:

AI 2027

Daniel Kokotajlo, Scott Alexander, Thomas Larsen, Eli Lifland, Romeo Dean

We predict that the impact of superhuman AI over the next decade will be enormous, exceeding that of the Industrial Revolution.

We wrote a scenario that represents our best guess about what that might look like. It’s informed by trend extrapolations, wargames, expert feedback, experience at OpenAI, and previous forecasting successes.

https://ai-2027.com/

Maximus Minimus
Maximus Minimus
1 year ago
Reply to  Jojo

Finally, AI will make accurate weather forecasts…for the weekend.

Dan
Dan
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

OK – What do you think would happen if a USA tech student in China managed to learn some of their highest tech? My guess is they would be branded a spy. That wouldn’t happen to start because China would never let a foreign student take a course like that.

I am “mostly” free market, but I have been personally involved in a company where the USA owners sold out to the Chinese. That company had a dominant USA market share and technology that China did not have. Now, the USA workers are down by 75%, the USA suppliers are down 75%, the quality of the products is sold is not the same. The previous USA owners have their own private 7 person jet with 3 full time pilots and a lot of money. Thier old company employees, vendors and customers are worse off. Is what it is.

I don’t have an answer for an easy fix.

bmcc
bmcc
1 year ago
Reply to  Dan

why don’t you own a company and do as you please. your owners did as they pleased. trump is a commie. like chairman mao

Dan
Dan
1 year ago
Reply to  bmcc

I do own my own company. I also recognize that there is more to life than just what is good for me. Would you want to live in a world where there are no rules? A nation is made of laws. I happen to disagree with a lot of them, but doesn’t mean I can do whatever I please. Would you want to live in the wild west where the strongest person makes the rules?

I am mostly a libertarian. But there are limits. You wouldn’t want to live in a world of anarchy.

And we do have some responsibility besides are own selfish interests. At least that’s how I live my life.

So yeah, I own my business. I make my own rules. If an employee needs an advance paycheck or asks to use the facilities to fix their car on the weekend, I do it. I don’t have to . I expose myself to some liability. But I am not a dick either.

Last edited 1 year ago by Dan
Dan
Dan
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

B.S. that 100% of the tech work done at those universities is totally open. Do you really think there is no classified work done there? Do you think they share everything that isn’t classified? Of course not.

Sure, there is lots of open information available. But why do you think the students attend those universities anyhow if they can just get it all online for free?

MPO45v2
MPO45v2
1 year ago
Reply to  Dan

But why do you think the students attend those universities anyhow if they can just get it all online for free?

You’ve been watching too many spy movies. Yes, it’s mostly free and all there, go and look.

Dan
Dan
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

You are naive if you think everything they do is online, accurate and free. Maybe you should try it.

Have you ever tried to reproduce the results of a published scientific paper on something that is truly novel? I have. They always leave something out or put in some incorrect information.

Last edited 1 year ago by Dan
MPO45v2
MPO45v2
1 year ago
Reply to  Dan

No, you’re just not smart enough to follow instructions or adapt if there is indeed something missing. But I also do think there is a bit of fraud in many of those scientific papers as well which may be another reason you can’t replicate something.

realityczech
realityczech
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

another fan of remote learning has entered the chat.

bmcc
bmcc
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

as a lifelong college student. attended ivy and stanford and community colleges and state u coast to coast. the elite schools are more a breeding and dating service. meet elites from all over globe for life long connections. that’s the real deal. my kids went ivy too. if you don’t get this, it is for the best.

bmcc
bmcc
1 year ago
Reply to  Dan

you’d make a great central planner. run the world according to your wishes.

Dan
Dan
1 year ago
Reply to  bmcc

It doesn’t have to be one extreme or the other. You can be mostly libertarian with a few guard rails. You would not want to live in a world without them.

I am *not* saying that we should have more laws. We have too many as it is. But we don’t want to have no laws either.

If you see an old lady struggling lifting something, do you ignore it since you can? Or do you help?

Last edited 1 year ago by Dan

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