Advisor for Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren Promotes Wealth Tax for France

Economist Gabriel Zucman proposes a 2% tax on French residents with over 100 million euros in assets.

Better France Than Here

The Wall Street Journal reports Wealth Tax Stages Comeback in France

France’s slide into political and fiscal dysfunction is generating a groundswell of support for a sweeping wealth tax that would represent a radical break from the pro-business agenda of President Emmanuel Macron.

The proposal is the work of French economist Gabriel Zucman, a former adviser to U.S. Sens. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. He wants to impose a 2% tax on the assets of people with net wealth of 100 million euros, equivalent to $118 million, or more.

Macron and his center-right allies have long dismissed the idea of a wealth tax as a “soak-the-rich” relic of France’s socialist past. France’s business leaders have objected to Zucman’s proposal, including Bernard Arnault, the chief executive of French luxury giant LVMH, who said it would be “deadly for our economy.” Some economists say the tax could hurt investment and economic growth.

With Macron’s government scrounging for billions in cost-savings to rein in its budget deficit, however, Zucman has seized the moment to demand a contribution from France’s billionaires and centimillionaires as a matter of “fiscal justice.”

Much of the country backs the economist. A recent Ifop poll shows that 86% of respondents support the Zucman tax, including 75% of voters for Marine Le Pen’s far-right National Rally party and 92% of Macron’s supporters.

The strong public support is notable in a country where voters agree on little else. The National Assembly is deeply fractured between Macron’s ranks—who typically oppose any tax increases—and lawmakers on the far-right and far-left who want to maintain or even expand public spending levels. The gridlock has depleted France’s finances, driving up its borrowing costs and transforming every budget vote into a referendum on the government.

Suddenly, there is talk of “fiscal justice” everywhere. The governor of the Bank of France recently said “some measures of anti-fiscal optimization on big fortunes would be justified. For the belt-tightening to feel acceptable it has to feel just.”

When a half-million protesters poured onto city streets across France last week, many carried placards that read: “Yes to the Zucman tax: billionaires pay up.”

“I think that if France adopts it, we would greatly increase our chances of it becoming European fairly quickly and, ultimately, global,” Zucman said.

This could get interesting. I await the flight of the wealthy from France.

Related Posts

June 21, 2024:  Debt Brakes and Treaty Requirements About to Smash the EU.

The EU has launched an Excessive Debt Proceeding against France. It won’t stop there.

Hoot of the Day

To achieve a government debt-to-GDP ratio of 60 percent, EU countries will have to reduce spending or raise taxes by 2 percent of GDP, on average, every year for 46 years.

Let’s just say it’s not going to happen. But these clowns are likely to try, if for no other reason than punish Le Pen.

Nothing has been solved because nothing can be solved. It’s politically impossible.

The French government is about to collapse again with France nowhere close to meeting debt brake and fiscal compliance rules.

If any party gets a majority in the next election, it will regret winning. No one is willing or able to address the mandatory rules.

September 8, 2025: French Government Collapses in No-Confidence Vote, What’s Next?

Bye Bye Bayrou. An amusing “Let’s block everything movement” takes hold.

September 18, 2025: Strikes and Protests Threaten France’s New Prime Minister Already

Macron has had 3 prime ministers this year. How long with this one last?

The proposed wealth tax will not fix the French debt issues even if they manage to collect it without the tax backfiring (which they won’t).

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Portlander
Portlander
6 months ago

Let’s stop thinking in zero-sum terms.

A 2% tax on wealth adds to spending in France, which adds to French GDP and the private sector surplus. Much of this additional spending goes back into the wealthy sector’s profits as well as employment. Don’t forget multiplier effects.

Higher GDP from higher spending will lead to a French equities boom, which will enrich the wealthy of France further. A virtuous circle. Everybody happy.

As usual, the trick is to do this in a way that doesn’t increase inflation. France currently has a low 1% annual inflation rate and an unemployment rate of 7.5%.

France (and the EU) is run in a way that safeguards the interests of the wealthy classes on neoliberal premise is that the wealthy are the vital engine of private investment, innovation, and growth.

Wait, didn’t the Draghi report say that the EU has failed at innovation? Could it be that public sector investment (e.g. MIC as in the U.S.) actually drives private sector investment and innovation, such that everyone is better off?

realityczech
realityczech
6 months ago

We in the government who hand out bribes…. we’re the good ones.

Phil in CT
Phil in CT
6 months ago

Meanwhile Trump is going to use real US taxpayer dollars (20 billion of them) to bail out Mish’s darling Milei in Argentina… which is worse really? Jawboning or actually spending the money?

Last edited 6 months ago by Phil in CT
waynshor
waynshor
6 months ago

Problem is not taxing rich people.It’s wasting and stealing the state’s money collected.Want Moar!

David O
David O
6 months ago

France has a mess because past politicians established a Bismarckxian welfare state, and now the promises to pay welfare grossly exceed the ability to obtain the money to make those payments.

I sometimes speculate that the French Fifth Republic is done. The two leading things that the Sixth Republic will need to do is to 1) Enact an economic Marxist revolution, where the corporations owned by the wealthy are taken from them and distributed to the workers. (To be seen how well run they will be afterwards…) and 2) Enact a political Marxist revolution, denying election to office of anyone who is “far-right”, such as any member of the National Rally. That will break the hung parliament.

Last edited 6 months ago by David O
peter mackey
peter mackey
6 months ago
Reply to  David O

It is entirely because of the euro and its rules.

realityczech
realityczech
6 months ago
Reply to  David O

lol. Kids, don’t freebase capn crunch.

gary stegen
gary stegen
6 months ago

Mish. I agree with your comment “I await the flight of the wealthy from France.” In addition I expect their assets to disappear from France, either still there but hidden, or moved outside of France where they will be hidden from the French tax collectors. And in addition those who have not made it to 200M yet but have he skills, ability, connections, etc. to work for it, will also move elswhere.
Do not know much about the income tax systems in Europe. I can agree that in the US the higher income folks should be paying somewhat more than they currently pay, and loopholes should be tightened up. However, a 2% wealth tax seems like a predictable disaster. Like the US they they need more revenue, but this is not the way to do it.

peter mackey
peter mackey
6 months ago
Reply to  gary stegen

If all countries had a wealth tax there would be nowhere for these parasites to flee to (or flea to, being parasites).

realityczech
realityczech
6 months ago
Reply to  peter mackey

if the queen had balls she’d be the king.

Casual Observer
Casual Observer
6 months ago

One other thing that could be done is if you can’t tax wealth, then you shouldn’t be able to use them as collateral for loans. As it stands right now, the richest have the advantage of gaming the banking system for themselves. That’s how someone who’s been bankrupt multiple times goes on to become president twice.

FDR
FDR
6 months ago

Cry me a river!

2% of net wealth of 100M euros is 2M euros that they can readily access from their Caymans, Jersey or tens if not hundreds of available offshore country accounts where the top .1% park their money illegally.

Neal
Neal
6 months ago

I’m not French nor a billionaire but I’ll soon be retiring to a country that has lower taxes. How many billionaires in France will do the same?
Then they will have to make up for this by lowering the threshold to 50 million, then 10 million, then a million then everybody. The deficit is solvable. Deport all illegals, deport all legal migrants who commit crime, raise the retirement age, tighten the rules for disability pensions, scrap unemployment benefits and offer a work for your benefits programme.

Rogerroger
Rogerroger
6 months ago

It seems to me you can only squeeze so much taxes out of the lower and middle class till you get a revolt. So the politicians are squeezed between taking care of their wealthy donors and getting tarred and feathered.
Start looking at how money is spent on political campaigns and such then ask yourself want do the wealthy expect in return. Musk spent some 288 million on trumps campaign. For giggles look up who and how much contributed to turning point usa.
Personally i think the people who have benefited the most need to be taxed at a higher rate. Say back at the rates before Reagan lowered them. You know trickle down economics etc.
i suggest when you agree or dis agree with something or someones point of view. You should take a few mins and see whos pulling the strings.

On a different note. The people who are saying Tylenol causes autism are the same people who said swallowing bleach and sticking lightbulbs up your butt would cure covid.
Seems they need to move the topic way from vaccines before fla starts having huge measles out breaks.

Casual Observer
Casual Observer
6 months ago
Reply to  Rogerroger

There are the highest number of measles cases since 1992. Effectively, this means the Trump admin, in 9 months, has increased measles back at 32 year highs despite very little immigration or travel from countries where measles has made a comeback.

MI6
MI6
6 months ago
Reply to  Rogerroger

My dad was an OB-GYN, and I do cancer research. Neither he nor his partners would *ever* suggest that a pregnant woman would ever take a drug of any kind unless it was absolutely necessary for the health of the woman or baby. Finding a causal relation between Tylenol and autism would require a study of women taking a drug for which there is an association of autism, which is extremely unethical. At this stage of science it’s probably impossible to establish a cause and effect. Under those circumstances only a fool would take Tylenol.

Rogerroger
Rogerroger
6 months ago
Reply to  MI6

Prob a good idea not to. Wonder what the damage of a 104 degree temp would be.

Jojo
Jojo
6 months ago
Reply to  MI6

Tylenol also shown to cause liver damage.

Phil in CT
Phil in CT
6 months ago
Reply to  MI6

Except there was actually an enormous study that found no connection.

Jojo
Jojo
6 months ago

Neither Sanders, Warren or in fact, WE, have no right to tell France what to do.

dtj
dtj
6 months ago

Do what the U.S. does: cut progressive taxes and then increase regressive taxes like tariffs. Cut things like Medicaid and SNAP.

In other words, “sock it to the poor” instead of the rich.

Michael Engel
Michael Engel
6 months ago
Reply to  dtj

Cut taxes, regulation, entitlements, SNAP, Medicaid…free edu, increase tariffs on China to protect French jobs. Build the Eurofighter with Germany. Egomaniac Macron stop fighting with Trump, Merz, Bibi and Putin.

Last edited 6 months ago by Michael Engel
Stu
Stu
6 months ago
Reply to  dtj

Key Changes:

– Funding Reductions: The bill reduces federal contributions to state SNAP programs. > As it should as these are Not Federal Program’s, but rather State Programs, looking for More Federal Money! The Feds already give ALL States a boatload of Money. Which States are asking? Is it Predominantly Democrat States? What are they shifting the Money too, that they require more of it. Pet Projects? Anything But Food? Etc.

– Work Requirements: New work requirements have been introduced. They must now meet expanded work criteria to remain eligible for benefits. > Sounds Fair to me. If you’re healthy enough and are able to work, then WORK!!! SNAP is not a give away to the hungry that spend their money on Everything But Food! They are talking on $1,000 Phones, while waiting in line for their SNAP benefits, amongst other obvious expenses they chose over FOOD! Requirements Galore I say!

– States are now required to cover a portion of SNAP costs, which could lead to further reductions in benefits as states struggle to balance their budgets. > Wasteful Spending, and Misdirection of Expenses, is NOT an excuse for more money for what’s actually needed, but a CLUE Your Mis-Spending What you have!

– These changes are expected to affect millions of low-income Americans. > It will affect the Scammers, Cheaters, Manipulators, and Scum Bags Absolutely!!! It should, as they are Literally Taking Food Out of the Mouth of Children, with this behavior!

Augustine
Augustine
6 months ago

France doesn’t tax the social security income of Usonian expats. Just saying…

alx west
alx west
6 months ago

smart=rich folks in Europe (France, Germany , etc) were hiding money for centuries!!

or why would Europe elites allow Switzerland / Monaco/ Cyprus being offshore havens in middle of Europe?

it was USA who blow off European offshores and anonymous bank accounts in Europe

alx

Frosty
Frosty
6 months ago

There are some things you simply can not “Unsee”

Like Hillary in crotchless panties or, Trump in a speedo…

I can not unsee the insane valuations on stocks like PLTR and NVDA.

The bubble in AI is stunningly exaggerated and some exogenous event will pop it.

Nvidia is selling its chips with “Vendor Financing” and every experienced investor has practical knowledge of how that often works out.

Vendors finance their consumers when there is not enough revenue or cashflow to pay for the product. It is a promise to pay based on the hope that revenues and profits will someday support the vendor financing.

What could possibly go wrong?

alx west
alx west
6 months ago
Reply to  Frosty

=Like Hillary in crotchless panties or, Trump in a speedo…

boy. you are really under stress :))

HMK
HMK
6 months ago
Reply to  alx west

I have seen pics of Hillary in her college days. Back then she was actually quite attractive.

realityczech
realityczech
6 months ago
Reply to  HMK

lol, nope!

William Jackson
William Jackson
6 months ago

All taxes are by definition Legalized Theft –Prof.Walter Williams

alx west
alx west
6 months ago

some kind of anarchy bs!!

in this case how would you build inter state roads? or international airports = ports?

where would you get money? who is going to pay?

=====

you can abolish taxes in only single case: EACH AND EVERY SERVICE=ROAD=ETC IS PRIVATE and YOU PAY each time you use it.

and still you need money for border, gov. military , police, etc

alx

Augustine
Augustine
6 months ago
Reply to  alx west

I’ve never seen a private highway or city wide sewage system.

bob
bob
6 months ago
Reply to  Augustine

toll roads

Augustine
Augustine
6 months ago
Reply to  bob

Those are government projects for which private contractors were hired to build and run it. But they still belong to the state.

Casual Observer
Casual Observer
6 months ago

The better way to do this is just have an AMT the way Singapore does. No deductions, no escape.

Ed Astrachan
Ed Astrachan
6 months ago

Don’t know about France, but in the US there are effectively partial wealth taxes that disproportionately impact the middle class.

a) Real property taxes at the local level that hit the middle class, whose largest asset is their house or condo.

b) Income taxes on investment income, that are effectively wealth taxes on the portion of income that offsets inflation. Although investment income is concentrated among the wealthy, high net worth individuals have more resources to tax shelter income relative to the middle class.

merv conlan
merv conlan
6 months ago
Reply to  Ed Astrachan

Nice One! impact recognized

Michael Engel
Michael Engel
6 months ago

France has to reduce workers entitlements, cut its gov size and sell gov assets to the private sector to reduce debt. They have to stop Islamic gangs which rules neighborhoods in Paris, Lyon and Marseille . Taxing the rich is Bernie bs. If Bibi keeps the comatose Hamas alive France will break apart by pro Palestinians protestors. France: either an iron fist or chaos.

Augustine
Augustine
6 months ago
Reply to  Michael Engel

If only so much outrage by the middle class at subsidizing the rich in Wall St. were as great as at taxing the rich Frenchmen or at the public financing of healthcare in Europe!

Albert
Albert
6 months ago

There is an important twist to the current taxe Zucman proposal in France (where I happen to be right now). It’s not 2 percent on net assets, but net asset holders of 100 million euros or more would have to pay the difference between the 2 percent on net assets and the taxes they already pay, including most importantly income tax. It’s this twist that seems to drive the popularity of this tax. Obviously, as with all comprehensive wealth taxes, administering the taxe Zucman would be a total nightmare.

HubrisEveryWhereOnline
HubrisEveryWhereOnline
6 months ago
Reply to  Albert

Thanks for the clarification; it’s always important to have details when discussing alternatives.

But “a total nightmare”? For who? If this wealth tax applies only to individuals with over 100 million Euros in net assets, the vast majority of Frenchmen won’t see any difference whatsoever. And if these individuals own that much, they aren’t filing their own taxes anyway. They’ll just pay their accountants a little more to figure it out so a few accountants will have a “total nightmare”. Psssssh

And what are the odds all these rich Frenchmen leave their homes, businesses, and social circles? (according to AI, there are only 4,000 such individuals). ‘Loss’ of the taxes paid by 4000 rich people (if they all left the country) won’t make a real negative dent in the country’s finances anyway.

This is psychological and political warfare to be sure. But we should think more about these consequences. With the policies and EOs Trump has singlehandedly pushed through so far (without the Republican Congress saying squat), can you imagine the wealth tax Sanders, Warren or AOC will implement through EOs when they get into power? Hope you super-rich Americans are all ready to move to Thailand. Elections have consequences, you know?

David O
David O
6 months ago

Pointing to Donald Trump’s real estate business as an example, how will the government discover that the rich man and his accountant have lied about the value a particular net asset? That is one reason why a wealth tax is inefficient.

As for tax exile, the last time around Gerard Depardieu was merely the most famous rich Frenchman to exit. Many went to Britain. They won’t do that this time.

Jon L
Jon L
6 months ago

These wealth taxes are all political as studies show that they have a negative impact on government financing (due to flight).

Aligning capital gains tax with income tax seems like a fairer approach but suffers from the same problem. France applies CGT on unrealised gains when you emigrate so that would have a one-off benefit to the French finances. Good bye any future revenue from this though.

Only a coordinated international approach really has a chance here but difficult to see that happening. For all its faults, the EU maybe a good vehicle to try this. If France gets in a tough corner then maybe it can impose something in coordination with Germany.

Personally I think that the CGT route is the best but giving a significant discount if the funds were invested in home companies. This aids growth and gives everybody a sense of national attachment.

HubrisEveryWhereOnline
HubrisEveryWhereOnline
6 months ago
Reply to  Jon L

You should check those being measured or studied in these ‘studies’.

Most I’ve seen point to the flight of corporations in developed countries like the US and France. It’s fairly easy to ‘bribe’ politicians to allow you to legally incorporate elsewhere (like Ireland or the Cayman Islands for US policy) and still run your previous business and avoid high corporate taxes. But as an individual, you can still live the high life in your preferred home country.

Yes, some studies have documented the flight of oligarchs/warlords from developing or third-world nations like Russia or Pakistan or China if you try to impose heavy rules/taxes on what they can do (probably halfway illegally already). But France is going to have much less of this issue here with a 2% net asset tax (including all the previous taxes you were already paying)

Jon L
Jon L
6 months ago

True – it is amazing that anybody survives given the taxes in France.

Fair point about these studies. The last time France did something, Gerard Depardieu threatened to leave. Unintended benefits!

ad hominem
ad hominem
6 months ago

Replace the income tax with a wealth tax using a tax rate calculated with an exponent.

Concentration of wealth into the hands of so few people allows these people to buy all the media, all “your” representatives to do their bidding and theirs alone, and turn every industry into a cartel. It makes everyone else a slave. This is what’s happened in front of our eyes.

ad hominem
ad hominem
6 months ago
Reply to  ad hominem

If “rich” people want to leave, let them. USA has the most billionaires. How’s that been working for us? Some wealthy and “capital” fled Russia around the SMO. Has Russia suffered for it? Oligarch-funded writers oversimplify and fear-monger. This isn’t as simple an issue as they depict it.

Last edited 6 months ago by ad hominem
Lefteris
Lefteris
6 months ago
Reply to  ad hominem

The question is how. Billionaire “John Doe” receives only a small salary, and lives in a mansion officially owned by a charitable trust.
Then you also have the political factor. Democrats have the highest income voters. Do you think they’ll go after them?
The US is a very complex financial machine, you’ll need an additional congress-size legislature to adjust and re-write tax laws every month (creating havoc in foreign investments). They usually end up taxing unintended targets. And the additional tax revenues end up being minor.

john smith the third
john smith the third
6 months ago

Just tax the wealthy French wherever they are, while exempting foreign residents from the wealth tax.

Neal
Neal
6 months ago

How do you tax someone like me who has access to multiple passports and homes in various countries? If I was a French billionaire I’d give the finger to France if they tried to tax me after I left France.

RonJ
RonJ
6 months ago

“I await the flight of the wealthy from France.”

An already proven reaction due to the rise in the top tax rate to 75% under Holland. Pikkety had promoted 80% rate in his book. Actor Gerard Depardieu moved to Russia and some of businessmen moved to Belgium, making the tax counterproductive. It was later rescinded.

Nate Kirby
Nate Kirby
6 months ago

How is a “wealth tax” computed?
Only on cash? or the market value of M2? or the future potential of M3, M4 …?

And if the market value drops (like tulips in Holland) would the govt refund the tax? (like that would ever happen).

Would such a tax have the potential to distort the market and drive wealth towards swiss bank accounts, crypto currency, ilicit stores of wealth (drugs, rhino horns, etc etc)?

In the past some countries have taxed amazing things, such as windows, and also levied taxes at 90%

“That’s one for you 19 for me… cause I’m the tax man” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMdcE8jdz70

bob
bob
6 months ago
Reply to  Nate Kirby
David Heartland
David Heartland
6 months ago

If the USA Congress proposes this: hidden in the text will be an exemption for Congressional Members.

Bill
Bill
6 months ago

Hell, it wouldn’t be hidden and it could still pass as it would be buried on page 2,372 and members of Congress and the Public would have had to see it for the 1 hour they had to pass it. They steal it in broad daylight these days.

peelo
peelo
6 months ago
Reply to  Bill

The esoteric language is really quite an art. A law can describe a tax exemption or deduction for a certain “class” of taxpayers or deals that in fact targets one friendly donor or small donor group, the one exclusively fitting the description. AI may help’ to decipher some of this. But of course, the politicians in power right now are using it for their ends.

Bill
Bill
6 months ago

Also, no progress can be made without tying anything like this to a balanced budget requirement and/or a retire-the-debt plan and Constitutional timeline. I happen to live in a township that has grown substantially but has taken on no debt, ever. Rarer than hen’s teeth. The saddest thing about debt is the inherent unfairness to those that didn’t participate in the gains the debt produced elsewhere, the mutualization of it. We see it with crazy spending programmes in certain states and then federal dollars rolle in from other states to pay for something they didn’t want, need or gain from. Like inflation, debt is a sinister, disequal enhancer and stealer. When Government lean on all scales we have problems. Government is the problem.

peelo
peelo
6 months ago
Reply to  Bill

In microcosm, my HOA passed a debt deal that was REALLY stupid. I urged, raise the dues, pay our way, but no.

Bill
Bill
6 months ago

I’ll lead with I oppose it. However, France, the US and the rest of the world with capital markets have massively enriched asset holders via public debt so it’s not surprising the same government that did so now wants to participate more directly in the gain by stealing, ahem, taxing a portion of the proceeds of the passive private gains received through their deficit-spending largesse. Nothing new here. Goverment legalizes cigarettes. Taxed. Legalize gambling. Taxed. Legalize pot. Taxed. Give us “permission to sell” things. Tax. Consider that immoral and terrible action called “work”. Tax it. You own land? See what happens when you don’t pay the annual permission-to-own-it tax!

They could easily slide toward an “air” or “we let you live” scheme and then tax our very existence.

Private living does indeed cost public money but there are very few direct cost-direct fee schemes that are balanced, accurate, fair, etc. Given how poorly They’ve (Government) managed the People’s resources historically, we seem to draw the line on the more vague Wealth tax. I’d be surprised if we can hold the line given the level of debt, the bifurcated economy and the concentration of the debt-fueld private gains but, if we can hold this line then maybe, just maybe, we can push them back further elsewhere–property taxes being one.

Hell, when they can tax W2 income, something one very personally produces each day via hard work, time sacrifice and mostly unwillingly, it isn’t much of a stretch to see them try more schemes all the time. Billy Goat’s Gruff and such.

Revolutions were started over less.

David Heartland
David Heartland
6 months ago
Reply to  Bill

Well put. Next up: taxing FREE SPEECHES.

Augustine
Augustine
6 months ago

Like voicing opposition to the US backed genocide of the Palestinians by the foreign power which finances most of the US Congress.

Last edited 6 months ago by Augustine
Peace
Peace
6 months ago

France is in deep trouble. UK and Germany too.
I should say SORRY, shouldn’t I?

SORRY, so SORRY, Zalensky. You’re alone now.

peelo
peelo
6 months ago
Reply to  Peace

Ukraine wanted its independence. Trouble is, bigger powers on both sides want forcible mergers, and are willing to fight for it.

Peace
Peace
6 months ago
Reply to  peelo

No, Ukraine doesn’t want to be independent.
It wants to depend on EU and NATO.
And Ukraine let himself PUPPET of West at Russian border.
I wish Ukraine peaceful, prosperous and neutral.

HubrisEveryWhereOnline
HubrisEveryWhereOnline
6 months ago

Elasticity is key here as with most taxes, including tariffs. How easy is it for me to out-run the tax collector?

“I await the flight of the wealthy from France.”

How many Frenchmen will run from their home country for a 2% tax? With today’s stock market burgeoning, that’s the equivalent of like three months’ earnings on their assets. They can still accumulate 9 months’ more asset earnings plus live off their regular income earnings.

Where are they going to move? To the US under Trump? LOL To Africa to live in one of their former colonies? LOL

I doubt this will come to pass politically. But elasticity of one’s options is the theoretical and practical key to the success of any tax measures. How long will the politicians last if they cut the common man’s government treats instead?

Frosty
Frosty
6 months ago

Monaco is right next door and many have already made the move!

David Heartland
David Heartland
6 months ago

Don’t look now, but the USA taxes those who wish to rescind their Citizenship. OH, YES, My wife and I have considered it.

If we moved to Portugal full time, they will double tax us.

Nate Kirby
Nate Kirby
6 months ago

Let’s do some simple math, say I have $100MM invested in the market, at 5% (modest return) per year, that’s $5MM per year, and a 2% wealth tax would levy $2.1MM, which still leaves me with $2.9MM, but then there is income tax and/or capital gains tax (IS Frances highest income tax rate 45%? and capital gains at 30%) all of a sudden I only have $1.6MM in income, surely a living wage, however quite a drop in social status (I might not even be able to get l@id on such a paltry income 🙂

I would look seriously at China (where one can buy whatever they want), Russia (where everything is negotiable) Canada (where they like beer 🙂 etc etc.

However, I think Mish might be right – if one country does it then others will follow.

peelo
peelo
6 months ago
Reply to  Nate Kirby

There are always attempts to internationalize tax standards. I hear some noise about it every few years. It runs into a collective action problem: there are plenty of places hungry and ready to compete for that capital. It’s the same thing that happened to the attempt to internationalize “sustainability,” or almost anything the UN supports. It just sets up what some term as “a race to the bottom,” though the people taking those opportunities don’t see it that way.

Frosty
Frosty
6 months ago

I was in France for the protests last week and it was more of a massive party than a real protest. A few isolated TV Headline hot spots but in general? A party!

In Italy there was a train strike yesterday but torrential rains in the north have everybody just trying to keep their homes dry and safe today.

The government finances can collapse in France and Italy without much effect on the average person here. Interesting societal differences from the states where people are more interested and involved in the news “spin” cycle on Fox.

>>>

David Heartland
David Heartland
6 months ago
Reply to  Frosty

Frosty, we live in Portugal part time. Contrary to what you are saying, our most wealthy friends (From Sweden, Germany, Norway, Ireland, Wales, UK and France) are VERY involved in discussions about Trump and Clinton (back in the day when they were racing against one another) and now “FUCKER TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP” is endless.

We try to convince them that we are not political (we do not vote, but we watch and listen to the fray fight over shit)….but, in the end, when we leave America, as we are on the 28th for six months, WE WILL IGNORE THE USA.

Frosty
Frosty
6 months ago

Perhaps our experiences differ in the amount of time we spend in the various locations. When you are there for months at a time and develop more than super ephemeral relationships the content is likely to change. Our short visit of weeks with many sightseeing type of stops simply does not lend itself to deeper discussions.

Frosty
Frosty
6 months ago
Reply to  Frosty

Have fun in Portugal by the way. I really enjoy the south of France!

My wife really likes Monaco. 😉

Bill
Bill
6 months ago
Reply to  Frosty

And when you say the “news spin cycle on Fox” you also meant to include CNN, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, ABC, Facebook/Meta, Twitter/X, MSN, Yahoo, NY Times, WaPost, LATimes” as well, right? Right?

KSU82
KSU82
6 months ago
Reply to  Bill

I think those are entertainment companies. Anything that is free and requires sponsors is just really sponsored entertainment. 50% truth and 50% spin at best

Last edited 6 months ago by KSU82
Call_Me_Al
Call_Me_Al
6 months ago

As history has repeatedly shown, nothing is more popular with voters than a tax on *other* people!

Peace
Peace
6 months ago
Reply to  Call_Me_Al

History has repeatedly shown, problems can be diverted and putting blames on others such as IMMIGRANTS.

David Heartland
David Heartland
6 months ago
Reply to  Peace

We also put the blame on the STUPIDS. HINT HINT.

Nate Kirby
Nate Kirby
6 months ago
Reply to  Call_Me_Al

History has also shown that eventually we are all “others”.

Bill
Bill
6 months ago
Reply to  Call_Me_Al

Tax the Rich has always meant tax anyone who makes one dollar more than me cuz THEY are rich…I’m not rich.

El Trumpedo
El Trumpedo
6 months ago
Reply to  Call_Me_Al

This is commonly known as voting in your own interest.

peelo
peelo
6 months ago
Reply to  El Trumpedo

The USA was great at finding a working equilibrium between all those self-interested grasping hands for a long time. It was discussed in The Federalist papers. Absolutely brilliant: Adam Smith for awhile became reality. As for now, I’m not sure.

Call_Me_Al
Call_Me_Al
6 months ago
Reply to  El Trumpedo

As Nate adroitly noted, eventually taxes expand to everyone (e.g. the creation of the U.S. personal income tax, which was passed by having it only apply to the ‘wealthy’).

While a tax on someone else may appear to be the masses acting in their own interest it doesn’t play out that way. A fiendishly clever gambit that continues to be effective.

Last edited 6 months ago by Call_Me_Al
El Trumpedo
El Trumpedo
6 months ago
Reply to  Call_Me_Al

The guys that wrote the constitution could never have foreseen our current educational state and media landscape, or the staggering wealth some have accumulated and use to get the uneducated poor to vote in the interest of the wealthy.

Call_Me_Al
Call_Me_Al
6 months ago
Reply to  El Trumpedo

They didn’t have to because there was legislation that check such things. Business charters didn’t last forever, tax burdens didn’t suck up worker wages, copyrights couldn’t be extended past 28 years (Diznee was the big cause of that change…don’t want unauthorized mice eliminating the cash cow!).

https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/copyright-act-of-1790/

Call_Me_Al
Call_Me_Al
6 months ago
Reply to  El Trumpedo

(Not that it matters to you, but I appreciate the exchange and am not down voting your comments)

Steve
Steve
6 months ago

Great idea. Because we all know how responsible our governing elite are with the wealth they take from their citizens.

El Trumpedo
El Trumpedo
6 months ago
Reply to  Steve

Better they take it from some rich prick than me then… because otherwise they’re just wasting mine.

peelo
peelo
6 months ago
Reply to  El Trumpedo

To someone else, you are a rich prick. Ask not for whom the bell tolls ….

El Trumpedo
El Trumpedo
6 months ago
Reply to  peelo

Those poorer than me are entitled to their opinion. This is mine.

Stu
Stu
6 months ago

– Better France Than Here. > Did you catch Whom from Here is 100% for it? Two extremely loved candidates by their Voter Base. Elected without any fear at all, of not being. If it Passes There, it’s coming Here…

– France’s slide into political and fiscal dysfunction is generating a groundswell of support for a sweeping wealth tax. > When they run out of everybody else’s money, they Will Come for Yours Always!!!

– The proposal is to impose a 2% tax on the assets of people with net wealth of 100 million euros, equivalent to $118 million, or more. > Yes, and they won’t leave France as a result? Hide the money in offshore accounts moving forward, and take out cash and move into hidden investments (BC comes to mind) for now with the money?

– Some economists say the tax could hurt investment and economic growth. > No Sh&#!! The people With Money, make the economy run. Either by investments, or asset driven (Ex. Rental Property), as it’s what others get to pay for, but enjoy nonetheless. It’s also the backbone of any Country, as wealth is what starts most anything from inception. You don’t come up with an idea, and have a mass movement with $20.00. Tax the Rich, and then say Goodbye to your economy, jobs, investments etc. as they will have fled elsewhere in a hurry imo.

– With Macron’s government scrounging for billions, > as they overspent, over promised and under anticipated the destruction they were causing. Now they are broke, and already took and spent all of the peasants money, so they are going for the wealthy, Dummies!!!

>> The Only Answer for France is: Marine Le Pen!!

Augustine
Augustine
6 months ago
Reply to  Stu

Does Buffet make the economy run or he just collects rent on it?

peelo
peelo
6 months ago
Reply to  Augustine

He coordinates resources, as capital does. Concentrations of capital are concentrations of coordination. The world runs on programs, sets of instructions inherently in hierarchies, not on weepy hymns and violins, though those cruder forms of — oh yeah — coordination.

Augustine
Augustine
6 months ago
Reply to  peelo

Concentration of capital is just that. In his case, without ever building anything.

Stu
Stu
6 months ago
Reply to  Augustine

You tell me…

Well Buffett did Just Spend $3.9 Billion Investing in 10 Different Stocks, so Yeah He certainly Helps Make It Run!

By Adam Levy – Sep 1, 2025 at 9:45PM
KEY POINTS

Berkshire Hathaway has sold more stock than it bought in each of the last 11 quarters.

Buffett and his team put $3.9 billion to work across 10 stocks last quarter, as they try to deploy more of Berkshire’s cash.

Augustine
Augustine
6 months ago
Reply to  Stu

Investing in stocks is not investment in economic activity.

David O
David O
6 months ago
Reply to  Stu

Stu wrote “– With Macron’s government scrounging for billions, > as they overspent, over promised and under anticipated the destruction they were causing. Now they are broke, 

It has been 30+ years of previous French Presidents and their governments who have overspent, over-promised and presided over things getting increasingly messy. Back when Macron was first elected it was a mess and he promised to fix it. Pity he failed to rally enough people to support his plan to fix it. Now it is failing on his watch. We might see H.L. Mencken’s remark perform, that the French people know what they are doing, and deserve to get it good and hard!

Lefteris
Lefteris
6 months ago

Didn’t François Hollande try that, and didn’t work or something? (even if it had, the amount to be collected would be minimal, and only once).
I was listening to a Greek finance professor living in Italy yesterday, she said “here in Italy academics retire at 70 years old, what the French want is impossible”.
More pain to come, I guess…

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