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Biden Accuses Republicans of Extreme and Unacceptable Positions as Budget Optimism Fades

Image from McCarthy’s Twitter profile.

The US Won’t Default on Interest Payments

Let’s start with my base case: The US will not default on interest payments. 

The extreme case is the US defers payments on some obligations. 

Janet Yellen on Meet the Press

Biden Hits Back on Budget Impasse

Calling the Republican’s offer “unacceptable”, Biden Hits Back on Budget Impasse

“It’s time for Republicans to accept that there is no bipartisan deal to be made solely—solely—on their partisan terms,” Biden said Sunday evening in a news conference in Hiroshima before boarding Air Force One for the return trip to Washington. “They have to move as well.”

How did the Democrats Move? 

Biden said that he is frustrated that Republicans want to close the deficit solely via cuts in spending and aren’t entertaining any new revenue sources such as rolling back the tax cuts approved under former President Donald Trump. 

The only movement I can see from Biden is willingness to cut the deficit by raising taxes. 

“I do not think it’s extreme that we simply say we should spend less than we spent this year,” McCarthy said on Fox News’ “Sunday Morning Futures.”

“Unless the president engages, I do not believe a deal is possible,” said Rep. Dusty Johnson (R., S.D.), the chair of the Main Street Caucus, a group of about 100 Republicans. 

Moody’s Predictions

Moody’s Analytics predicts that a default would cost more than seven million jobs and cause the unemployment rate to move above over 8%. The ratings company also predicts that the stock market would lose a fifth of its value.

8 Million Jobs Lost!? Poof Just Like That?

I did not see Moody’s analysis but I consider that position nonsensical. 

Are businesses going to shut down or do mass layoffs if there is a one-day default? One week?

Besides, there will not be a default. Interest on debt will be paid. There might be some delays in paying obligations, but 8 million jobs lost? Really?

X-Date Revision

Other Views on the X-Date

The Real Risk

That is one of the few sensible statements I have seen, In practice, the Treasury would minimize the nightmare with as few accounts or countries as possible.

But again, it will not come to that because there will not be a default. 

John Comiskey revised his X-Date as noted in the Tweet above. But it’s important to note that the X-Date is the date at which bills cannot be paid, not a drop dead date on default.

S-Date, R-Date, D-Date

I think we need an S-Date which I define as the date when Social Security payments cease. A D-Date is the critical default date at which interest on bonds would no longer be paid. 

The latter may be as late as August or even October, as discussed in Debt Ceiling Talks Stall, Little Chance of Congressional Deal by June 1

With quarterly tax payments coming in on June 15, even if Social Security checks are delayed by a week or so, the checks would resume on or before the 15th of June. 

This gives us an R-Date of perhaps something like June 10th or 12th in which Social Security check distribution would resume even if the checks are temporarily paused.

My base position remains: There will not be a default because there is too much wiggle room for other obligations to not be paid. 

An uproar over missed SS payments would get Congress to do something.

This post originated at MishTalk.Com

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56 Comments
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Mjs357
Mjs357
3 years ago
Remember “D” people- this could have all been avoided if that old bat Nancy Pelosi would have addressed this while controlling all levers of power. But no, let’s make this a crisis we can’t let go to waste. It’s all figazy.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
I think the democrats plan is to either hit the X date or come really close. Then they could blame the upcoming recession on republicans failure to reach a budget deal. And the media would echo whatever the democrats tell them to.
Orion
Orion
3 years ago
I have not seen anywhere exactly how much the debt limit needs to be increased. I suppose it must be sufficient to include the FY 24 budget, as it is an election year and I am sure Mr. Biden does not want to go through this next year. After 3 years of >$T current administration deficits, Reuters last week presented the FY 24 budget proposal as $6.8 Trillion (significantly over income) which includes among other things expanded Medicaid, food stamps and other welfare programs; free pre-K education, child care, community college, national paid family and medical leave and other higher education spending. The administration will need a large increase in the debt ceiling to accommodate the FY 24 budget in an election year.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  Orion
Good point. No one discusses the amount the ceiling would need be raised. But, whatever it is, we’ll hit it quickly.
jiminy
jiminy
3 years ago
I thought I saw someone who looked like Biden promising Zelinski an additional 400 million yesterday? Fiscal restraint?
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Well, Biden is going to cave. Well, maybe he does not really have to cave, because he is a ****ing right-winger. He has supported every bankruptcy “reform” bill that has come up, and has been calling for SS benefits to be frozen for darn nearly 40 YEARS now. Not to mention his support for every disastrous war that the real left has opposed over these decades, right down to Ukraine.
Biden is simply using the debt ceiling fight to push for politics that he personally favors but which most people in his party would otherwise oppose.
radar
radar
3 years ago
Just because they hit a debt limit doesn’t mean they will stop making interest payments, which is the definition of default, right? They’d just stop paying a bunch of government workers, which would probably be a good thing as government has gotten too big.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  radar
A lot of government employees/contractors are essential personnel. They’ll get paid no matter what.
radar
radar
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
And that’s fine if they’re essential. But why do we ever pay folks who are non-essential? Seems no one would miss them if they’re not doing essential work.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  radar
The essential employees are mostly IT contractors who maintain the computer systems. The vast majority of fed employees are non essential. The irony is the computer systems being maintained are primarily used by the non essential government employees. So, they’re not really essential when no one needs to use them.
Sunriver
Sunriver
3 years ago
Why doesn’t Congess just pass an infinite debt ceiling? This debt ceing nonsense will take care of itself when the debt gets high enough to consume all receipts. We may be within 10 years of that happening.
Oh wait, the FED will move to a negative interest rate before then so the government can service the interest on the debt.
This whole setup sounds very inflationary. I don’t like the US dollar here.
WTFUSA
WTFUSA
3 years ago
Reply to  Sunriver
Because every iteration of raising the debt ceiling results in a multi thousand page bill so laden with pork buying individual congressional members’ votes that it squeals as it is being signed. Also, it is to further delude the constituency that congress is actually being fiscally prudent when it comes to debt.
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
Warren Buffet begged Biden to press the trigger. His co is loaded with expensive unproductive workers in dead horse sectors and companies. The Irish gang will trigger layoffs to cleanse the salt water elite and brush the crumbs on the tables.
MPO45v2
MPO45v2
3 years ago
If de-globlization is indeed underway then a logical outcome of that process is going to be a default. Why bother paying back debtors if there is no intention of ever doing business with them again in any large scale capacity? What recourse are they going to have? Some countries (China) will take huge haircuts to their Treasury bonds but so will others (Norway) that invested heavily in the U.S. and the US stock & bond market.
The question then becomes when will the default happen. This year? Next? 10 Years?
The other issue is that if the U.S. defaults, even temporarily, it will likely lead to other nations defaulting and possibly creating a domino effect of collapsing banking systems across the world. We have already seen what happens with SVB and First Republic and Credit Suisse and that was just a sneeze in the banking system, we’re about to hit pneumonia.
And the most important question is how to position for profits in these scenarios. A prudent investor should be well positioned right now.
Jack
Jack
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45v2
Any suggestions?
Would like to see what worked after the plague in Europe when population was reduced – similar to demographics collapse in many parts of the world today.
TheCaptain
TheCaptain
3 years ago
Nobody ever voluntarily shut a Ponzi down and it won’t be different this time. But without some kind of controlled opposition they feel like the risk of massive CPIflation or even hyperinflation is high.
The Ponzi will only be shut down by the markets losing confidence in the con game of fake money.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  TheCaptain
The Ponzi will stop only when the people march on DC and demand accountability from politicians. This is why the ‘choke-hold’ reaction to Jan 6 was essential. However, it likely will take 50 years before this is realized. Don’t expect the markets to do anything. They are pigs at the trough.
Jack
Jack
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
In 20 years people will be either too obese or too old to march on anything.
Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear
3 years ago
The House passed a bill, and now it is the Senate’s turn (not Biden’s) to evaluate it. Senator Schumer needs to put the bill up for a vote to keep the process going. If default happens before the bill is put up for vote in the Senate, then Schumer gets blamed. Schumer probably wants to run down the clock to get Republicans to panic and agree to fewer cuts. Schumer may also be afraid there are enough Democrats to support the bill as it stands, so he can’t get more concessions from Republicans (Hastert Rule: never put something up for vote if you know the outcome is not what you want.).
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
“The extreme case is the US defers payments on some obligations.”
I’m rooting for this outcome. I want to see what happens. Queue up the popcorn & let’s see how this plays out. Inquiring, skeptical minds want to know. I’m all in cash or brokered CD’s, so I could care less if there’s a nice 3,000 point drop in the Dow.
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
Name calling bs. Keep it simple : Biden gives a bear hug to his radicals. Both sides have the same objectives ==> deflate Trump tsunami, shave entitlements and unfunded obligations and stick it to the radicals and the privileged elite.
The debt ceiling debacle a trigger for layoffs tsunami
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
Russian collusion pay back.
Rbm
Rbm
3 years ago
Or better yet cut their pay.
I seem to recall several tax cuts the government bean counters said would add to the debt over time.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  Rbm
Employee salaries are a small fraction of expenses. And it’s the best use of federal funds since employees buy things and pay taxes. If you cut say 10%, it will make almost no difference.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
The Kooky Kaucus pulling McCarthy’s strings wants a default, so they can blame the ensuing s**tshow on Biden. I don’t think it will go that way for them, but they don’t know that.
I don’t think Biden will back down. There will be a ‘shutdown’ for sure. Not sure how long an actual default would take.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
I hope he doesn’t backdown. Let’s default and see what happens. There’s a 1st time for everything, so let’s go all in.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
Indeed, and BANZAI!
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Defaulting on our debt for say a week isn’t going to cause the USA to commit suicide.
And that date Yellen is talking about is not the day we stop paying bond holders. That would be the last thing to happen.
We just start shutting down national parks and laying off government workers.
Is it going to hurt some? Yes, absolutely as it should. But what’s worse? A little pain now to make the point of fiscal responsibility or the day that’s coming when the SH!T REALLY hits the fan?
I’ll take the former, BANZI or not?
babelthuap
babelthuap
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
The government workers get back pay when they go back. Contractors still get paid being mainly firmed fixed contracts. A shutdown in reality costs more since we are paying people to do nothing when it eventually simmers down. Government workers love shutdowns by and large. Free vacation. Only ones that hate it are those living paycheck to paycheck since they have to go to a food bank after a week.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
You’re assuming the Kooky Kaukus gives in at some point before we start stiffing creditors. I don’t think they will. They know they’re losing power, probably permanently, and they really need some kind of emergency to take advantage of. Their party sells rage, and they need people to be unhappy to buy their product.
RonJ
RonJ
3 years ago
“Biden Accuses Republicans of Extreme and Unacceptable Positions”
Biden Gaslights again.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Bankruptcy is never stopped by borrowing more money, only by decreasing expenses.
There needs to be deep structural change in DC, beginning now, and starting with limitations on govt. spending as a percent of GDP. If politicians fail to produce a balanced budget (without borrowing), they should not get paid for the year. Add in a strict line item veto. Stop the mega bills of fiscal insanity. A trillion here and there, with slush oozing from the cracks.
Meanwhile, since the above has zero-probability, accumulate gold in at least two different countries.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Line item veto. There’s an oldie, but goodie with almost no chance of becoming law. Don’t get me wrong; I’d love to see it implemented, but Donald Trump has a greater chance of being re-elected and sending Biden to jail than the LIV making it into his hands.
Great idea, though, Captain!
Since2008
Since2008
3 years ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
The line item veto it was given to democrat President Clinton by Republicans in 1994 or 1995 if I remember correctly. The Supreme Court struck it down as being unconstitutional. So it would take a constitutional amendment at this point.
It was a risk Republicans took as they gave a democrat president power to line item out all the Republican pork in spending bills.
WTFUSA
WTFUSA
3 years ago
The two headed hydra just continues to play whac-a-mole with the constituents taking the mallet blows. Each party professes and pretends to be fiscally conservative or prudent when the other party has the majority. The main difference being where the nauseating tsunami of debt is directed/wasted when the majority of the debt backed money eventually ends up going to the same political campaign contributors who fund both groups and thus cover all the bases.
Most of America gets the non-representation we elect as the swing voters see-saw back and forth between the two parties like children of two divorced, abusive parents who get to choose who to live with every 4 or 6 years. ‘Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.’
Agave
Agave
3 years ago
It appears that the MAGA caucus wants a default, figuring it will somehow help them regain control. These are not normal people or politicians, they’re delusional extremists who are willing to blow up the country to get their way. See January 6th.
I think this time will be different, and they will not be willing to compromise on their extreme positions (though there’s always the possibility that it will turn out differently than I expect). McCarthy does not control these people, they threaten and control him with their nihilism.
The Democrats are readying their 14th Amendment response in case this plays out. Then the SCOTUS would most likely become the ones deciding whether we go into default or not. It’s a novel situation that makes it hard to predict what their ruling would be.
Debts already run up (and more significantly under right wing administrations – look at the data) via approved budgets, and aggravated by their 2017 tax cut for the wealthy – need to be paid, not used to hold the country hostage. The Rs never refuse to raise the limit when their own right wingers are President, and only use it as a blackmail tool to squeeze Democrats. Note that the Democrats in Congress have never used this as blackmail tool against right wing Presidents, and the limit has needed to be raised under the past right wing Presidents.
Future budgets can be negotiated through the normal structure, but past debts already approved and spent should be paid, not used to threaten potentially disastrous outcomes.
Dr Funkenstein
Dr Funkenstein
3 years ago
Reply to  Agave
You mean the peaceful demonstration on January 6th infiltrated by the thoroughly corrupt and partisan Biden FBI?
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  Dr Funkenstein
Baaaaaahahahaha! We got a live one!
RonJ
RonJ
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
“This government will crush you and your family” -FBI Whistleblower
FBI Concerned Jan. 6 Footage Would Expose Undercover Agents, Informants: Whistleblower
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
If you stopped listening to the MSM, you might hear about the Durham report. Devastating; there is no other word for it, which is why it is being censored. A gov’t that corrupt means there is every reason to believe it was equally corrupt on Jan 6.
For those people capable of critical thinking, the original report is here: https://www.justice.gov/storage/durhamreport.pdf I strongly recommend reading this to see what Democrats are capable of.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Democrats being shown to be mendacious, scheming incompetents is devastating? That’s been going on in full since Bill Clinton normalized lying. I KNOW Nancy Pelosi and Schumer look like escapees from Team America: World Police, and I KNOW that they LIE without guilt and with great skill.
1.) You are trying to change the subject because you have no rational response to me pointing out this obvious horsesh*t.
2.) You are trying to have an argument with somebody tucker made up.
So lets get back to the subject you don’t want to talk about:
Are you seriously trying to tell me that whole thing at the capitol on Jan 6 was anything but a pathetically incompetent chickensh*t, coup? Are you trying to tell me that these special needs rebels deserve clemency because they were just too good*am stooopid to have comprehended that kicking in the windows and smearing sh*t on the walls of the capitol of the GREATEST GODD*AM COUNTRY THE WORLD HAS EVER KNOWN just MIGHT get them in to some trouble?
Is that the point you’re trying to defend or distract from?
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Does your argument change if the FBI and other agencies actively encouraged (entrapped) the ‘rebels’? In doing so, those guilty of sedition are also those enforcing the laws.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
No. It does not, and they are not. tuckers bedtime stories are just that… stories.
RonJ
RonJ
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Calling Jan. 6 an insurrection, was a story. That “the Shaman” was escorted inside by Capitol police, behaving as if they were tour guides, was actual recorded video that Tucker presented.
bobcalderone
bobcalderone
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
You don’t count the WSJ as MSM? They’ve been reporting on it extensively.
I didn’t vote for the man, but TRUMP WAS RIGHT
shamrock
shamrock
3 years ago
Reply to  Dr Funkenstein
Biden wasn’t President on Jan 6th.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Agave
What don’t you understand? Whatever tax is collected, politicians will always spend more because they are IRRESPONSIBLE. They are never held to account because people like you believe it is always the other side’s fault. IT IS BOTH D and R–they are the problem.
RonJ
RonJ
3 years ago
Reply to  Agave
There is spent money and there is appropriated, unspent money. Apparently, there are unspent appropriated Covid funds, for one.
babelthuap
babelthuap
3 years ago
Reply to  Agave
Estimates of hidden government agents on Jan06 were upward of 200. We can’t see the video of what they were all doing though. You have to take their word for it just like masks were not needed then absolutely had to have it then lockdowns working except for BLM an antifa who could do whatever they wanted rioting and vaccines working until they didn’t but as Julius Caesar said, men will believe what they want to believe. I believe the debt ceiling will be raised because it always is raised and there isn’t actually a squabble going on at all. All a ruse.
Daa
Daa
3 years ago

Republicans raised the ceiling 3 times without spending cuts when Trump was president.

Mish
Mish
3 years ago
Reply to  Daa
And on two occasions, Biden refused to vote for debt ceiling increase out of budget concerns.
They are all hypocrites.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Mish
Thank you. Hypocrisy leading to national bankruptcy should be a capital offense.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
… and lying should get you kicked out of office.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Are you sure you want that? Asymmetrical warfare would eliminate most of the Democrat hierarchy in return for a few dumb Republicans who surely deserve to go. The bigger question is who determines the lie–see my above post on the Durham report as to why that would be an issue. Incidentally, by enabling the lies, Obama is guilty of election interference, at a minimum.
It turns out that the same people you call ‘kooks’ now seem to right all along. Scary thought, ain’t it?
dtj
dtj
3 years ago
They’ll agree to an extension (or two) and this whole kabuki theater will continue until well into the Fall.
After that, news coverage of the presidential race takes over to provide more theater for the next year to distract the people from any real issues going on.
babelthuap
babelthuap
3 years ago
Reply to  dtj
Zoomers are going to become really savvy with gardening, canning, cutting their own hair along with many other skills in the next 5 years or so. Good times are right around the corner.

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