Bill Ackman Wants to Send US Troops to Ukraine. Would that Stop or Start WWIII?

White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki from YouTube video clip, annotations by Mish

Bill Ackman Tweet Thread

Slightly Reorganized to Make Complete Sentences

  1. @POTUS is there a point at which we say it is un-American to sit back and watch this transpire? We are fighting an economic war with Russia. We are supplying weapons and intelligence with our allies, and the Ukrainians are putting up an incredible fight. 
  2. The Russian army has shown itself to be weak and lacking morale. Their air force can’t achieve air superiority. Putin is rallying the nuclear saber as he gets more desperate. What if? Do we wait for him to kill millions before we intervene?  What precedent are we continuing to set by allowing this to play out?
  3. None of us wants to put American lives at risk. And yes it is easy for me to say with no children in the military. But our lives are already at risk if Putin gets his way. The @us_navyseals and Americans in uniform I know would want to be there to stop this madness. 
  4. The defense of Ukraine is a just war. It is not about oil or money. It is about right and wrong, and those are the wars that we should fight. And if we take the long-term view and punish madmen for their actions, we can deter their larger ambitions.
  5. We are fighting an economic war but only selectively shutting down their banking system. We are not using every economic means at our disposal. And I hope Russia stops this onslaught, but I don’t see how Putin saves face. We need to be prepared for what comes next which means we need to start thinking about intervening military. 
  6. Had we set up a show of force at the beginning of the war that we were prepared to execute on, we might have deterred Putin. We let Crimea, Georgia, and more happen, which got us here. Isn’t it time we set a real red line?
  7. Allowing Syria to cross that line and doing nothing was one of the worst moments in our country’s history. Here we have an opportunity to set a real red line and establish for future generations what it means and what America stands for. And if that line is set by us and the rest of the world together, all the better.
  8. And if he crosses it, we have to do what we have to do. We can’t sit back and allow hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and perhaps millions to die. I don’t want to live in that world and you don’t either. @POTUS , it is in your hands.
  9. You can fix the errors of the past and protect our future. With all due respect Mr. President, the time is now.

President Biden on Sending Troops

Rallying the Nuclear Saber

I cannot find any mainstream media coverage regarding “more than 500 nuclear warheads”.

However, there are numerous reports along this line: Putin puts nuclear deterrent forces on ‘high alert’ amid spiraling tensions over Ukraine

Putin said in a meeting of top officials shown Sunday on state TV that the move, which means the country’s nuclear weapons are prepared for increased readiness to launch, was in response to NATO powers’ making what he called “aggressive statements.”

Daryl Kimball, the executive director of the Arms Control Association, a Washington nonprofit group, said Putin’s action is a modern first.

“I think we need to understand that the risk of miscalculation and escalation is high,” Kimball said. “I don’t think we should look at this as a threat by Putin to use nuclear weapons against the United States, against Europe, against NATO. This is a dangerous moment in the crisis. It’s a point in which both sides needs to back down and move the word ‘nuclear’ from this equation.”

Zelensky Seeks No-Fly Zone

Axios reports Zelensky Pushes Biden on No-Fly Zone.

Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky is urging President Biden and NATO to impose a “no-fly zone” over “significant parts” of the country, telling Axios in a statement that Ukraine “can beat the aggressor” if the Western allies “do their part.”

US Rules It Out

Jen Paski: “A no-fly zone would require intervention from US military. It would essentially mean US military would be shooting down Russian planes. That is definitely escalatory. It would potentially put us in a place of military conflict with Russia. That is something the president wants us to do.”

“We’re not going to put American troops in danger. That means we’re not going to put American troops in the air as well, but we will work with the Ukrainians to give them the ability to defend themselves,” Linda Thomas-Greenfield, the US ambassador to the UN, told CNN on Sunday.

Madman Theory Bluff

Stop or Start WWIII?

Ackman: “Putin is rallying the nuclear saber as he gets more desperate. What if? Do we wait for him to kill millions before we intervene?

Would sending in the troops or a no-fly zone help avert or help start WWIII?

Ackman Tries to Walk Back Tweet

I don’t believe you can Tweet the president 9 times then easily take it back.

Previous Posts on Ukraine

This post originated on MishTalk.Com.

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Columbo
Columbo
2 years ago
Arm chair general here, but I think Ukraine should have pulled out of Kharkiv and and moved South and then west to extend the line next to Kiev behind the Dneiper river and west of the city. Possibly keeping the Russians at bay until the western countries arms arrive and buying time to negotiate. Too late now, the city is surrounded by the Russians.
astroboy
astroboy
2 years ago
If Ackman is so pumped up on sending US troops to Ukraine (US and Russian troops shooting at each other, what could possibly go wrong?) then perhaps he should enlist. Ukraine is handing out guns to anyone who will take one, I’m sure they’d love to have a billionaire stop a bullet for them.
Billy
Billy
2 years ago
The White House, Media, and Social Media all say Russia is bad, and even calling him names.
After thinking about it, I’m guessing that Russia would be the last country to go along with Klaus Schwab’s Great Reset.
If Putin trys to go around SWIFT and uses crypto, like the media is suggesting, it will be checkmate for him.
Billy
Billy
2 years ago
What country was it that Joe Biden’s son was accused of conspiring with an energy company?
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
“Putin’s “propaganda chief” Dmitry Kiselyov has threatened the West with nuclear annihilation during a rambling broadcast.”
It seems to sound like a bellicose statement such as those sounded by communist North Korean media.
A lot of barking.
Anon1970
Anon1970
2 years ago
Before Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, the US had placed an oil embargo on Japan. Desperate times call for desperate measures. 
davebarnes2
davebarnes2
2 years ago
We could hire the Wagner Group to fight for Ukraine. I am sure we can pay more than Putin is paying them.
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
Zelensky is asking for foreigners to volunteer to fight for Ukraine. I believe Ackman is free to volunteer to do so.
Anon1970
Anon1970
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
I would not count on the American neo-cons encouraging their own  children to go fight for Ukraine either. Before the US attacked Iraq in 2003, the American news media whipped the American public into an anti-Iraq frenzy. Remember Judith Miller, a NY Times columnist in those days?  Back in 2014, I don’t recall that  American news media giving much coverage to the roll that American officials played in encouraging the Maidan Revolution. But they later gave a lot of coverage to the alleged roll that Russia played in the election of Donald Trump as President.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
how much gold or bitcoin does Ukraine have?  There is no shortage of mercenaries worldwide who would fly in for the right compensation.
Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill
2 years ago

Public opinion around the world is against Putin. Ukraine has obviously prepared for this day and so far has embarrassed Putin. Putin will forever be weakened by this. By sending US troops, we will waste life, limb, and treasure again playing world’s police. The United States can simply not continue on the path of endless wars around the world and survive economically. $30 trillion in debt and rising quickly…Cutting Putin off economically will set Russia back 40 years. Continue the economic pressure. Soon, like in the past, Russia won’t be able to keep their tanks running and they will be worthless.

FromBrussels
FromBrussels
2 years ago
Reply to  Bungalow Bill
wouldn’ t bet my a ss on it ;  you can t  demonize , ridiculize and screw a military super power for ever , it is been going on since 2011 when Russia decided to help Assad in Syria where fn US of A was collaborating with ISIS and Al Qaeda(9/11 remember) to oust yet another democraticaly elected leader!  Now you can cut off Russia from everything you want, BUT Russia has got ALL the minerals, raw materials, to keep the world turning….remains to be seen how this will turn out …..something will have to give !   It is definitely the US that is to blame for the present situation ….not to mention of course the totally incompetent mfrs we got for leaders in the worthless EU circus, who have by now shot thenselves into both feet and a have a nuclear bomb hanging above their empty heads  !!   
LPCONGAS99
LPCONGAS99
2 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels
good points, but wasnt this all under Obama and Hillary watch? How come you do not give them the direct blame
Hell was it not the Obama regime(still infecting our foreign policy among other things) that over through the Ukranian government to put in a pro american one
Obama and his cronies created most of this mess ………But all i hear from Europeans and Liberals all over the world was how great it was that Obama was given the noble peace prize! LMFAO at the hyprocricy on the left…….. But i know, Biden will say it was all Trumps fault
Hansa Junchun
Hansa Junchun
2 years ago
Reply to  LPCONGAS99
The military Empire of Chaos created this mess, as Pepe Escobar explained. And Dr. Michael Hudson adequately addressed the triumirate that rules US Army foreign policy: the MIC, OGAM, and FIRE (military industrial complex, oil gas & mining, finance insurance & real estate). He left out the fourth partner, Big Pharma (not sure what the acronym could be: IPhAN (international pharmaceuticals & narcotics?)). These have bought the US on the cheap and now operate it through their stooges in Washington and other foreign capitals. Ciphers like Obama were extremely useful. Dunderheads like George W and Biden were also manageable. Outsiders like Trump had to be coerced into compliance or destroyed. This past week shows that the nation is financially, morally, and emotionally bankrupt but still extremely powerful as an empire of chaos.
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
2 years ago
Idiots have always been saying idiotic things. Doing so, is part and parcel of being an idiot.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
2 years ago
Ackman?
YOU first
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
If you read comments here you would think it all started in 2014. The truth is this moment with Putin was unavoidable from the moment he rose to power. There have been several books on Putin since his rise to power and I’ve spent time reading some of them. The most recent one is from someone who covered him from his early days and worth a read.
FWIW for my graduate degree in cybersecurity, I had to write a research paper and ended up choosing to research cyberattacks carried out of Russia and Eastern Ukraine. This was back in 2011. I don’t work for the state department or any other government department but have been reading about Putin for nearly a decade. 
Hansa Junchun
Hansa Junchun
2 years ago
The tug of war for the right to loot Ukraine has been ongoing since 1991. 2004’s Orange Revolution was a step forward for Western intervention but the real leap was in 2014. 
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Hansa Junchun
So Putin didn’t care until 2014?
whirlaway
whirlaway
2 years ago
No, until then he didn’t even know Ukraine existed!   LOL

The 2014 US coup by Nobel Peace Prize winner 0-bama escalated it to a whole new level, though they had been meddling in Ukraine in some form or the other since the early 90’s.

Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
He still doesn’t know it exists.
KidHorn
KidHorn
2 years ago
If Ukraine still had a pro Russia government, Russia would not have invaded Ukraine. Why would they?
But in 2014, we meddled in Ukraine and had their government replaced with a pro western government. No one disputes this any more.
Anon1970
Anon1970
2 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
You are correct. Read up on Victoria Nuland for the major role she played in American meddling in Ukrainian politics. For backgrounder on how we got to the Russian attack on Ukraine read here: link to nsarchive.gwu.edu  and  link to unz.com  The second article was recently written by David Stockman.
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
I have been following him and his clique since his time in Saint Petersburg. 
Anon1970
Anon1970
2 years ago
Soviet/Russian leaders have been complaining about NATO expanding to the east since 1990. But the US/NATO ignored Russia’s concern. 
thimk
thimk
2 years ago
Hmm, Bill Ackman ; Is this the same guy that placed a 1billion dollar short bet on Herbalife ?  /s
WarpartySerf
WarpartySerf
2 years ago
Just what we need – advice on how to start WW 3 from one of America’s biggest social predators.  Advice from one of The War Party Of The Rich’s
biggest multi- millionaires  – who completely own both sides of “aisle” in Congress.
Of course, Bill will split to one of his foreign holdings in New Zealand, etc.  with the other predators who’ve looted America.  Take Pelosi with you when you go, Bill.
Hansa Junchun
Hansa Junchun
2 years ago

Things are just a bit more complicated than all that:

@POTUS is there a point at which we say it is un-American to sit back and watch this transpire? We are fighting an economic war with Russia. We are supplying weapons and intelligence with our allies, and the Ukrainians are putting up an incredible fight. 

That’s what the MSM says. And of course, they always report the truth, right? 

The Russian army has shown itself to be weak and lacking morale. Their air force can’t achieve air superiority. Putin is rallying the nuclear saber as he gets more desperate. What if? Do we wait for him to kill millions before we intervene?  What precedent are we continuing to set by allowing this to play out?
Some might say the Russian Army has shown itself cautious and calculating. If they conducted themselves the way we conducted ourselves in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Syria, Ukraine’s powerplants would be demolished, internet service down, gas service destroyed, water service crippled, highways blocked. Oddly, though, people in the middle of besieged cities are able to send video and phone and texts. Weird!

None of us wants to put American lives at risk. And yes it is easy for me to say with no children in the military. But our lives are already at risk if Putin gets his way. The @us_navyseals and Americans in uniform I know would want to be there to stop this madness. 
Define “madness.” Russia was provoked endlessly until it became intolerable. A friendly democratically elected government was overthrown by us in 2014. Since then, extremely hostile governments have undercut Russian businesses, persecuted Russian speakers, and kept a smoldering war in the east alive since the frontlines were established in June 2014 and confirmed in the Minsk agreements of 2015. Every single day, six to eight ceasfire violations were reported, all coming from the Ukrainian side, in order to remind the rebels that they were, well, rebels. And let’s no forget that the Ukrainian governments since 2014 were only possible because millions of voters in the east did not participate. Before 2014, they guaranteed victory for the pro-Russian Party of Regions in 2006, 2008, 2010, and 2012. That’s not been a problem since they were disenfranchised.

The defense of Ukraine is a just war. It is not about oil or money. It is about right and wrong, and those are the wars that we should fight. And if we take the long-term view and punish madmen for their actions, we can deter their larger ambitions.
Again, your moralistic argument fails to take any moral responsibility for our actions against Russia in Ukraine since 2014 and even before. Poke a bear until it bites: you’ll get angry at the bear for hurting you, but any rational observer will say you brought it upon yourself. In this case, the criminal regime in Ukraine brought this situation upon itself. I bet neither you nor anyone else here recalls that this all started in November 2021,  when Zelensky claimed a coup attempt against him with little evidence. It really was out of left field, but everything racheted up since then. What really happened? Only the insiders know. And they’re not about to share with us.

We are fighting an economic war but only selectively shutting down their banking system. We are not using every economic means at our disposal. And I hope Russia stops this onslaught, but I don’t see how Putin saves face. We need to be prepared for what comes next which means we need to start thinking about intervening military. 
Putin is intent on shattering a sword we’ve pointed at Russia’s belly. This is called thinking in terms of decades or centuries — quite unlike our leadership, which thinks only about the next election.

Had we set up a show of force at the beginning of the war that we were prepared to execute on, we might have deterred Putin. We let Crimea, Georgia, and more happen, which got us here. Isn’t it time we set a real red line?
All of these events were provoked by us through our stooges. Every time. We provoked, Russia reacted. It is not complicated.

Allowing Syria to cross that line and doing nothing was one of the worst moments in our country’s history. Here we have an opportunity to set a real red line and establish for future generations what it means and what America stands for. And if that line is set by us and the rest of the world together, all the better.
We have tormented Syria, Russia’s ally, in the interest of Israel. We created and supported the most monstrous devils in modern history, the head-chopping ISIS. Our pathetic lie, the “air war on ISIS”,  consisted of the USAF constantly “Accidentally” parachuting weapons onto ISIS positions in 2014 and 2015. Over and over and over.  And finally when Russian air strikes got too successful in 2015 and 2016, we dropped our proxies and aided the Kurds in taking Syrian territory — by ruthlessly bombing Mosul and Raqqacinto ghostly ruins. Look up the drone footage of Raqqa after our airstrikes. Grey and desolate, it looked like Dresden in 1945, except the photos were actually in color.

And if he crosses it, we have to do what we have to do. We can’t sit back and allow hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and perhaps millions to die. I don’t want to live in that world and you don’t either. @POTUS , it is in your hands.
If we do not wish to see as many people die in Ukraine as we killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, perhaps we should not be arming the criminal regime in Kiev and urging them to bloody resistance. Yet, we cannot help it. We are a bloodthirsty nation. We have waged ruthless war all over the globe the entirety of the 21st century. And we cannot help but get involved here, since it spills Russian blood.

You can fix the errors of the past and protect our future. With all due respect Mr. President, the time is now.
With all due respect: Leave our weapons and bombs and missiles and thirst for others’ blood out of it. We are a financially bankrupt nation because half the debt is army debt, and we are a morally bankrupt nation because we provoke wars and then feed them. 

OUdaveguy
OUdaveguy
2 years ago
The people always screaming the loudest for war are always, always the same people too cowardly to put on a uniform and go into harm’s way.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
In 2018, Putin told an audience that Russia wouldn’t strike first in a nuclear conflict but theorized about retaliating against an imminent enemy attack, adding with a smirk: “We would be victims of aggression and would get to heaven as martyrs. And they will just die and not even have time to repent.”
whirlaway
whirlaway
2 years ago
So?  The major politicians of both the US corporate parties have stated dozens of times that they would not rule out a nuclear first-strike – even against a country that has no nukes. 
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
None of them talk of martyrdom or dying as martys.
whirlaway
whirlaway
2 years ago
Yeah, they only talk about murdering other people by the millions.   They are such nice guys, no?!   
KidHorn
KidHorn
2 years ago
I hope when this is over we completely overhaul our state department. Demolish it and start over. Their actions under Obama destroyed Libya, Syria, and now Ukraine. I think the world breathed a sigh of relief when Trump was in charge. We didn’t try to escalate a war that was easily avoidable in his 4 years. The state department is supposed to form alliances and create allies. Instead they seek out and demonize who they don’t like and try to create conflict with them.
whirlaway
whirlaway
2 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
I agree.  The state department should always be about *diplomacy* and that means doing everything possible to avoid a war.  But what do we get instead?  Cackling witches like HR Clinton with her “we came, we saw, he died” stuff.
Greenmountain
Greenmountain
2 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
I think you need to go back many more years than Obama.  How did we end up in Afghanistan?  It is an unfortunate history of this country – Guatemala, Iran, …
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
While you breathed a sigh of relief Russia used Syria as a staging ground for Ukraine. Anyone who thinks this started with the Obama is out of touch with who Putin really is. 
KidHorn
KidHorn
2 years ago
Russia was invited in by the recognized government of Syria to help defend them against US backed rebels who were trying to overthrow the government. The so called moderate parts of Al Qaida and ISIS. Syria never asked for US troops on their soil.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Read the link. The private militiaman who embraced Russia in Syria is now running from them. 
Dean_70
Dean_70
2 years ago
You are correct, it did not start under Obama. This goes all the way back to Clinton in the late 90’s as the US decided to support neo-nazi opposition to the Russians.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago

Putin has long been committed to recovering lost glory, suppressing dissent and keeping neighbors in Moscow’s orbit. In 2005, he called the collapse of the Soviet Union “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.” Russia has fought a war with Georgia, annexed Ukraine’s Crimea, backed separatists in eastern Ukraine, and earlier this year briefly deployed troops to help quell protests in Kazakhstan.

His public dismissals of Ukrainian sovereignty go back many years. In 2008, he is reported to have told President George W. Bush, “George, you have to understand that Ukraine is not even a country.”

KidHorn
KidHorn
2 years ago
Of course you defend the state department. I probably would too if I worked for them.
Give it up. This war could have easily been avoided if we didn’t try to force Ukraine to join NATO and we didn’t help overthrow their government in 2014. No one wanted Ukraine in NATO except the US. Our state department never thinks things through. They just constantly try to overthrow governments they don’t like.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
No. This moment was unavoidable from the moment Putin rose to power. You have too short a memory.
KidHorn
KidHorn
2 years ago
I guess it was just a coincidence that Russia annexed Crimea right after the government of Ukraine was overthrown.
OUdaveguy
OUdaveguy
2 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Coups AND elections have consequences!
KidHorn
KidHorn
2 years ago
Wonder how many of the pundits who say we should intervene militarily thought Russia should have intervened when we invaded Iraq.
OUdaveguy
OUdaveguy
2 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
How many of those pundits have ever worn a military uniform and gone into harm’s way to defend their rhetorical positions?
Webej
Webej
2 years ago
This seems like a repeat of the Covid hysteria.
Everybody is losing their mind and going hysterical, latching onto delusional narratives.
Most of all, everybody just cannot shut up about how we need to control the disinformation and misinformation, root of all misfortune.
“They sky is pink.” There. I said it. How dangerous is that!
OUdaveguy
OUdaveguy
2 years ago
Reply to  Webej
Exactly.  Covid lies are collapsing into a quagmire of human rights violations and massive damage to everyone’s health while corporate media conceals the real villains as always.  We have plenty of domestic enemies that need dealt with first.
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
I have no idea what Bill Ackman thought about Putin and Russia before but I know now. Opinions can shift rapidly when presented with a real danger. It focuses the mind. Putin and Russia’s violence in Ukraine has convinced people in Europe that Russia is an extential threat like they hadn’t had since WW II. At first the feeling was that Russia and the West were in a new Cold War and Europeans thought that they could live with that but when Russia invaded Ukraine with the objective of taking all of it they suddenly saw that the parallel was not the Cold War but something much much more sinister and I am happy at their reaction. Europe contains the second largest military-industrial complex on the world and the Europeans have decided to use it to defend themselves. 
Dutoit
Dutoit
2 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
For me the only serious invasion that threatens France come from the south.
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  Dutoit

Tu parles du grand sud ou le sud proche ? Je ne crois
pas que tu parles de l’Espagne ni d’Italie mais plutôt le Maghreb. Si c’est le
cas pourquoi ne pas simplement le dire. C’est permis maintenant de vocaliser
vos craints car tout le monde politique en parle et toi, tu peux aussi. En plus souvent le danger vient de deux endroits le même
temps.

Dutoit
Dutoit
2 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Some even think that Russians could help solving the problem from the south, if there is a civil war for example.
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  Dutoit
There is not much Russia could help with if it comes to that. Intellegence is something the French have. Troops? Not really especially if they are as badly trained as the ones we see in Ukraine. OIl and gas? Can’t see the need. Equipment? Tanks? Not as useful as before. Planes? The have enough. Money? I suppose they could send a some Chechen soldiers but who would they fight for? Please tell me what help could Russia give France that its neighbors and allies couldn’t provide? And reply in French since you are French. It will give me a better feeling of what you mean when you talk in your native language. 
Dutoit
Dutoit
2 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Pour combattre le “grand remplacement”, aurait-on plus de soutien du coté des Russes ou des Américains ?
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  Dutoit

La France se met tout seul dans cette situation stupide. C’était
facile à voir ou ca aller emmener le pays. J’ai vu ça il y a trente ans. J’ai travaillé
trois ans dans les pays du Maghreb et les gens là-bas m’avait dit exactement ce
qu’i voulais faire. En arrivant en France je ne comprenais pas pourquoi les Français
ne voulaient rien voir. Je ne pense pas que la Russie peux aider la France car
ils ont le même problème et ne pourrais pas aider même s’il voulait.

Dutoit
Dutoit
2 years ago
“Bill Ackman wants to send US troops”
But which troops ? What is the number of really operational available troops (excluding the bureaucrats) ?
Are these troops used to face an enemy which is not a third world country ?
US troops (as well as France troops, remaining in Mali for example) are used to have a complete air protection. When something is wrong or resists they send the air force. And this air force is totally immune. It would not be longer the same against Russia. Their most advanced weapons are precisely anti aircraft ones (s-400, s500, s-550). Without complete aircraft protection the fight would be much more deadly.
jhrodd
jhrodd
2 years ago
Putin is not “desperate” and the Russian liberation of Ukraine is going very well.  They’re taking a slow gentle approach, there is no hurry since no-one is coming to Zelensky’s aid.  The war only goes nuclear if NATO joins the party, then it goes global.  With crazy talkers like Ackman and Zelensky out there I’m making preparations.  I live not too far from one of the highest value, yet little know nuclear targets.  The Jim Creek Naval Radio Station in OSO, WA This VLF antenna array is the principle means of communication with US nuclear subs.
whirlaway
whirlaway
2 years ago
Reply to  jhrodd
I think the “Putin on the defensive” narrative has been built up to ensure that Biden can deliver the SOTU address and tell people that everything is going great.   
hhabana
hhabana
2 years ago
Reply to  jhrodd
Can we send Ackman to Kiev?
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  jhrodd
Destroyed Russian military column right in the middle of Kharkiv
Feb 28, 2022
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  jhrodd
They are not doing well. They will now have to resort to leveling cities to try to break the will of the Ukrainians and it won’t work. What it will do is guarantee Nato intervention. 
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Yes. Once the Europeans send their planes in there will no averting WW3  
Siliconguy
Siliconguy
2 years ago
It might be time read The Guns of August again. A series of diplomatic screwups and missteps plus mutual defense treaties that turned a squabble into a bloodbath. That’s the real risk. 
OUdaveguy
OUdaveguy
2 years ago
Reply to  Siliconguy
When does Archduke Zelensky get assassinated?
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Why would Biden take advice from a Wall Street guy  on geopolitics and war ? He isn’t Trump. Thank god we have adults in charge again. Biden won’t be saber-rattled into a war the way Trump might have been or just given away Ukraine and gotten out of NATO. I saw a Trump NATO banker who served under Trump saying the Trump administration unilaterally stopped SWIFT for Iran. He said it just required leadership. I told him leadership is building consensus and not going it alone. He clearly failed that course. I have no doubt Trump would have given up Ukraine to Putin along with other parts of Europe. Republicans wanted the Ukrainian president to go after Hunter Biden in exchange for weapons and many voted against giving weapons to Ukraine a few years ago.
whirlaway
whirlaway
2 years ago
“… just given away Ukraine”.    You can only give away what you already own.   Unless you stole it.
whirlaway
whirlaway
2 years ago
“I have no doubt Trump would have given up Ukraine to Putin along with other parts of Europe. “

That is BS.   Trump armed Ukraine and escalated the conflict in Donbas, something that not even the 2014 coup leader 0-bama had done.   On top of that, he withdrew from long-standing weapons treaties with Russia, sold Patriot missiles to Poland and on and on.   But the DONORcrat Party is so effing bloodthirsty that they saw all these things as being “soft” on Russia and Putin.     

Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
Trump failed to arm Ukraine because he wanted Zelensky to go after Hunter  biden. 
whirlaway
whirlaway
2 years ago
“… arming Ukraine against Russia is an entirely new policy that was introduced by the Trump administration – link to truthdig.com in the first place. Even the Obama administration, which was plenty hawkish toward Russia in its own right, refused to implement – link to archive.is this extremely provocative escalation against Moscow.”
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
2 years ago
pax amerika and the MIC and bankers have been warring endlessly my entire life and my fathers life.   century plus now.    i don’t think bloggers and financiers comprehend pax amerika has been belligerently putting troops and fomenting civil wars and trying to install puppets in georgia and ukraine to name just 2.   putin already spanked us out of georgia and belarus and syria.   from raygun to biden all our presidents are the same on this.   the real problem is the amerikan people.   they love war and elect war mongers.   democracy does work.  since ancient greece times.   
Anon1970
Anon1970
2 years ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
How about Iran (1953), Vietnam (1965 buildup), Afghanistan (2001), Iraq (2003)?
Christoball
Christoball
2 years ago
If we have WW III, it was nice knowing you all. I learned a lot on this forum and had a lot of fun. Hopefully we will get to take a little of our portfolio with us when the light is so bright it shows our skeleton like an XRAY right before we get vaporized.  But fear not, we will be remembered by our nuclear shadow etched on the wall. It was all worth it to get Ukraine into Nato and the EU.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
2 years ago
Reply to  Christoball
a bit dramatic,  but point taken.   cheers to pax amerika busting up peacefully like USSR did.  
Robbyrob
Robbyrob
2 years ago
Putin is trying to take down the entire world order
Mr. Purple
Mr. Purple
2 years ago
Reply to  Robbyrob
Great article, almost too much all at once.
Jack
Jack
2 years ago
Reply to  Robbyrob
Excellent and enlightening article. Thanks for sharing.
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  Robbyrob
Wow. That was a great and enlightening article.
FooFooFed
FooFooFed
2 years ago
Then ACKman should go himself if he feels so strongly. Farkn coward will sit stateside while US troops are put in harms way. Let the Almighty European Union step up, not our youngsters. During WWII my father, age 19, flew B-24 bombers into Germany. 43 missions. If he were alive he would tell Ackman to F##k off.  
SmokeyIX
SmokeyIX
2 years ago
Reply to  FooFooFed
That’s why the USA loses all of its wars in the Middle East region.  Their wealthy men show up on the battlefield personally.  Ours are cowardly. 
Mr. Purple
Mr. Purple
2 years ago
#1 Who gives one f@(& what Bill Ackman says?
#2 For the love of Je$u$, it is RATTLING the saber not rallying the saber.
#3 The last thing anyone needs is US troops fighting Russian troops, unless you desire the end of the human race.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
2 years ago
when hedge fund billionaires and bloggers play arm chair generals it always cracks me up.   it’s obvious this schmuck ackerman is an idiot.   and poor mish,  you don’t seem to grasp what has been happening in eastern europe since the ussr peacefully busted up.    pax amerika,  has been belligerent and broken every promise to the russians.   with arms and bases in poland to puppets of CIA in georgia under W and ukraine under obama trump and biden.    putin is no saint,  but we are the pure aggressors.   putin already kicked amerikans asses out of syria under obama and trump.  amerikans are such war mongers.   reminds me of my old heritage,  the roman empire.   i still vote in italia and also here in pax amerika, too.    stick to finance and economics.    your fantastic on that.   your geopolitics and war analysis is obviously JV.  at best.   sorry old sport.  i really love your blog, too.  best to know what you don’t know.   i don’t know a thousand different subjects.   
ohno
ohno
2 years ago
Well at least they have an excuse for DOW 5k now. Pathetic.
Dean_70
Dean_70
2 years ago
The US politicians and bankers have done FAR more damage to the global community than Putin.
People should unite in the US and focus their hostile energy toward our leadership rather than being so passionate about the Ukraine crisis. Our leaders continue to screw us over on a daily basis but people are so programmed they cannot see it. Just look these posts!
We need to stop our 1 party system and demand change here or US global destruction will continue. Yes, we have a 1 party system. The labels are designed to keep us divided but the actions seem eerily similar.
Anon1970
Anon1970
2 years ago
Reply to  Dean_70
In reality, how many Americans even know who Victoria Nuland is and the role she played pushing for the Maidan revolution in 2014? If you didn’t know who she was then, you probably don’t know that she is back in the Administration now.
Dean_70
Dean_70
2 years ago
Reply to  Anon1970
Yes, here is a refresher for the ignorant: link to truthout.org
Zardoz
Zardoz
2 years ago
All we need to send is the drones. The Ukrainians can paint their flags on them.
ohno
ohno
2 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Dropship
Mr. Purple
Mr. Purple
2 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
The chemical signatures will trace back to the US.  But maybe it won’t matter.  Sure won’t if we’re all dead.
Jack
Jack
2 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Thinking the same thing. Would be similar to Russians sending in non uniformed irregulars to Donbas in 2014.
Webej
Webej
2 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
How do you want to deliver them ???
Think it through.
What could the Russian reaction be if they were used?
They’ve already said in advance, as they have said everything in advance for decade(s) !
Morn
Morn
2 years ago
“But our lives are already at risk if Putin gets his way.”
The hysterical threat inflation by interventionists is an old trope that will never go away.  Even a Putin that somehow achieves all of his current goals in Ukraine (demilitarized, NATO membership off the table, etc) poses no additional threat to American lives or democracy unless we actively decide to put them at risk by doing the kinds of stupid things Ackman is recommending here.  For all of the mess this is right now, it would essentially restore the pre-2014 political status quo in Ukraine (minus some unfortunate territorial adjustments in Crimea and the two breakaway republics), which was no more a threat to American lives for the previous 30 years than Mexico is.
whirlaway
whirlaway
2 years ago
Reply to  Morn
That’s solid wisdom there.   Every word of it.    But way too many people think that there is such a thing as a winnable nuclear war.   And these days, at least some of the TDS-stricken DONORcrats have come to the point where they have started thinking they should “nuke” Putin to teach Trump a “lesson”.     

These are truly frightening times.

Zardoz
Zardoz
2 years ago
Reply to  Morn

Has appeasement ever worked? Ukraine comes after Georgia was invaded, and Putin has already threatened Finland. He won’t stop.

Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  Morn
What are “all of Putin’s objectives”? First I thought it was just portions of Georgia. Then I thought it was Crimea. Then I thought it was just the eastern provinces of Ukraine. Now it is at least the rest  of Ukraine. What about Poland? Latvia? Estonia? and so on? I have no idea what “all of Putin’s objectives are, but if I were in a country near him, I would be worried.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
2 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
The war in Georgia looks eerily similar to the Ukraine.
1) 2 break away zones happened in Georgia.
2) Russia recognized their autonomy
3) Russia invaded on their behalf and to ‘stabilize the region’
4) Russia left after Georgia surrendered and was forced to recognize 2 break away zones.
Note that Putin did not annex Georgia which was a part of the old Soviet Union.
For all those claiming he plans to annex Ukraine and bring back the old USSR they might want to look at what happened there.
whirlaway
whirlaway
2 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Yes.   But those who want to profit from those endless wars would lose a lot of money by looking at what happened there.
Christoball
Christoball
2 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
I have a friend in re-adjusted Georgia. She has a comfortable life and comes and goes whenever she likes. She loves it there.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Christoball
Life can be good if you stay in line and don’t complain.  That was proven with the CoVax shots, for example.
Webej
Webej
2 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
They have been repeatedly stated over the years.
1. A stable mutual security architecture in Europe and globally.
2. No Americans, Germans, British, Swedes, or other arch-invaders on the doorstep.
3. God relationships with the Western business and society to develop Russian society and the economy.
Columbo
Columbo
2 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R

Those last 3 countries are all NATO members… that ain’t happening. Then he will surely have a World War on his hands.

Billy
Billy
2 years ago
When Trump was in office the media showed us that Europe doesn’t want us fighting their wars.
I say lets cheer them on like we are doing meanwhile our social media companies are filtering all of their pro-Russian sources because it’s “misinformation.” Once Russia or China becomes a real threat to a country we can help out. But they have to want it first.
Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear
2 years ago
Let the EU deal with Russia. It’s their back yard, and it’s time they pay their NATO dues.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Political Science (Remastered) · Randy Newman
Reagan tells Soviet jokes
Freebees2me
Freebees2me
2 years ago
Ackerman is clearly entitled to an opinion but such crazy talk shows that he needs to stick to investing.
BowserB46
BowserB46
2 years ago
Reply to  Freebees2me
And he should learn the expression is sabre rattling, not rallying.
Zardoz
Zardoz
2 years ago
Reply to  BowserB46
Meh, it’s the same for all intensive porpoises.
Mr. Purple
Mr. Purple
2 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
When I die I want that written about me in my a b!tch you worry.
Jackula
Jackula
2 years ago
Bill Ackman is a f’ing idiot on this issue and should shut the f up.
Robbyrob
Robbyrob
2 years ago
Hypersonic Missiles Are Unstoppable. And They’re Starting a New Global Arms Race.
The new weapons — which could travel at more than 15 times the speed of sound with terrifying accuracy — threaten to change the nature of warfare.
If true, that would mean a Russian aircraft or ship firing one of them near Bermuda could strike the Pentagon, some 800 miles away, in five minutes
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Robbyrob
If they didn’t get shot down first.  Almost anything is stoppable.  You just need a defense system fast enough to recognize the danger and then trigger an intercept of some kind.
But then there was an SF story written by famous author Ursula K. Le Guin where a planet was attacked with missiles traveling at near light speed.  Those could problem get through!
——–
‘Sci-fi awesome’ smart bullet downs a cruise missile
US Air Force uses a hypervelocity guided projectile to down a target over White Sands Missile Range, New Mexico
September 6, 2020
TCW
TCW
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
It’s a totally different ball game to use a hypersonic projectile to hit something moving relatively slow than it is to detect, track and hit a maneuvering target moving at mach 15.  
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  TCW
It’s just a matter of speed of processing.  
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
It’s actually more a matter of physics than speed of processing. Intercepting something that fast requires that the intercepting missile be able to move even faster and that means it’s harder to maneuver because even minor course corrections will cover a lot of real world ground.
TCW
TCW
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
You are wrong there.  I am a radar engineer though I don’t deal with hyper-sonic targets.  You can’t intercept it if you can’t track it.  If you are able to detect a target, you have to guess where it might be in the future to start a track on it.  Good luck with that.  Even if you used a heat-seeker for self-guidance, validating the target, knowing what direction to send it and it’s ability to maneuver are big problems.   
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  TCW
But it is still a matter of speed of processing.  Faster computers, better sensors, better radar or something else that can pick up their signal.  
Satellites are watching everything that happens in the world.  They should be able to give near real time info.
TCW
TCW
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Speed of processing is just one important factor that is a subset of detection and tracking.  At mach 15, near-real-time is not near-good-enough.
MPO45
MPO45
2 years ago
There is always the question of whether World War II would have been as bad if Adolf had been dealt with when he invaded Poland.   Doesn’t Putin want to rebuild the world in his image?  A return to the old Soviet Union?  Establish an anti-LGBT world? 
I don’t buy that whole “Putin doesn’t want missiles in his backyard” nonsense.   He already has missiles in his backyard, it’s called Alaska and Europe and hyper sonic missiles.
Roadrunner12
Roadrunner12
2 years ago
Mish, what are your thoughts on NATO (US) having troops & missiles with 5 hrs of Moscow? Is that not Cuba 2.0? What do you believe the American response would be if lets say if Russia put missiles in Cuba? That might have happened already, Im forgetful on my history. 
Also in case you havent noticed, Its the Russians who are the root cause of inflation, Putinflation.  I find it very odd for someone who has posted numerous articles on the Fed, Government policies, etc are not catching on to the narrative being put out blaming all the worlds evils and economics on Putin!
Wag the Dog, Mish.
Theres no more need to post any Fed articles, its Putinflation.
Mish
Mish
2 years ago
Reply to  Roadrunner12
I already posted my thoughts on this.
It seems you have selective memory or selective reading.
What’s the Real Background Story Behind Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine?
Roadrunner12
Roadrunner12
2 years ago
Reply to  Mish
Yes, I did forget about that article. Sorry.
The question I ask myself is the world safer with NATO troops and missiles within 5 hours from Moscow which is the ultimate result of the Ukraine in NATO? It certainly increases the stakes.
Im sure your aware of the narrative being put out on Putinflation? Putinflation is the new “transitory” regarding inflation. I expect that is all we will hear politically going forward?
Scooot
Scooot
2 years ago
Reply to  Roadrunner12
It’s just been made abundantly clear that NATO countries and all need troops and missiles to defend themselves otherwise Russia and Putin will march in whenever it fancies, destroying and killing in the process. 
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Roadrunner12
You keep pushing the same tired analogy on every thread here.  I’m sensing a Russian asset at work.
Zardoz
Zardoz
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Been seeing them everywhere the last few days. Creepy.
whirlaway
whirlaway
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
What is wrong with that analogy?   It is the correct one.  Cuba is 90 miles away from the US.   And the closest NATO missiles are now 100 miles away from Russia.    You may be tired of hearing it because you want to get on with a war that might go nuclear.    So?
Bam_Man
Bam_Man
2 years ago
I doubt that this POS Ackman has sons or daughters currently serving in the US military.
If not, where does he come off making such a presumptous statement?
Oh, that’s right. He’s a billionaire speculator.
“Master of the Universe”.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Bam_Man
And the Russians and Ukrainians don’t have sons and daughters serving in their military?  Dead or crippled is what can happen to you in the military.  It’s why Trump, Bush ii and others of wealth found a way out.
BowserB46
BowserB46
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
In all fairness, Trump, unlike “W” Bush, Clinton, and Obama, neither started nor escalated American wars.  Those of wealth never have to serve.  That’s still a complaint in Russia about the sons of the Oligarchs.  As to others Bush 1 was a WW2 Navy bomber pilot.  Still he committed our military to fight a war on behalf of a country, the majority of whom did not serve and whose “royal family” spent the duration of the war out of their country.  Going farther back, Johnson put 2.5 million American lives at risk for a fake war that cost:
58,000 dead of which 61% were under 21 and 31% were married
75,000 permanently disabled
6,000 lost limbs
700,000 suffered PTSD
Finally Vietnam vets still die at a rate 1/3 faster than other Americans of same ages
seaturtle
seaturtle
2 years ago
Good grief. Ackman should stick with managing money.
People wade into international affairs all the time from other fields unread in history, diplomacy or military affairs. They usually make fools of themselves. Case in point.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  seaturtle
Case in point?  Like all the armchair warriors across the internet on forum after forum who have everything all figured out? [roflol]
BowserB46
BowserB46
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
I don’t have all the facts about all our wars.  My only experience is the Vietnam war (First Infantry Division 67-68), and I am fairly comfortable saying we accomplished NOTHING good in that war other than boosting earnings of General Dynamics and saving Bell Helicopter from bankruptcy.  There is no question America is worse off for having created that war.  As to the others, the Korean War veterans I’ve spoken with have little positive to say about their service, and NONE of the other wars we’ve been in since WW2 have ended with America being better off.
My chair has no arms.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  BowserB46
Yes but your point is what?  More “we should have…” or “we should do now…”? 
Too many fail to realize the huge power that our military-industrial complex holds over our heads.  We budget (know above board amount) $800 BILLION every single year to the MIC.  They need war all the time to sell their wares.  We need wars to test what they have built.  We also need big wars now and then to kill off the excess young men, who left to their own with no aggression outlet, are a dangerous force to all countries.  Endless war will continue to be on the menu going forward.
Same with the Covid scamdemic.  Read Kennedy’s book ‘The Real Anthony Fauci’ and you’ll see a broad indictment of our health agencies, Government, Fauci , Bill Gates and Big Pharma.  They own a large piece of America.
Webej
Webej
2 years ago
Reply to  seaturtle
Maybe not.
People who see everything through ideological blinders are probably too deranged to make dispassionate decisions about anythiing

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