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France Wants the EU to Drop Useless Combustion Car Rules

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32 comments on France Wants the EU to Drop Useless Combustion Car Rules

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EU Should Drop ‘Useless’ New Combustion-Car Rules

Pushback on the Pace

France’s finance minister joined automaker calls for the European Union to walk back upcoming anti-pollution regulation for car tailpipes that would significantly add to the cost of making combustion-engine cars.

The so-called Euro 7 rules, set to come into force in from 2025 for what will be the last generation of combustion engines, will weigh on an industry already struggling to make the switch to electric cars, French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said Tuesday during the inauguration of Automotive Cells Company’s battery plant in northern France.

“Perhaps we would do better to forget this Euro 7 standard, which will cost our car manufacturers useless money,” Le Maire said, with neither China nor the US making the same imposition on their automakers. “We need to invest in tomorrow’s technologies, not yesterday’s.”

The Euro 7 regulation seeks to tighten rules on pollutants other than CO2, like carbon monoxide and nitrogen oxides. The rules also aim to tackle particulates coming from brakes and tires. Eight EU nations, including France, have called for the bloc to scrap new pollution limits for car tailpipes as they distract from the goal of effectively banning new combustion engine vehicles after 2035, adding to pushback on the EU’s pace on introducing environmental regulation.

Manufacturers Make a Solid Point

The car manufacturers have a solid point. It makes no sense to spend time and money on reducing tailpipe emissions when tailpipes are going away. 

But is this really a stall effort by the European auto manufacturers on the EV timeframe?

That’s the big Green fear, of course. 

But the fear is moot. Any research, development, and investment in useless technologies is tantamount to investing in better buggy whips at the start of the Industrial revolution. 

Wasting money is wasting money. And it diverts from the long-term goal even if the pushback is partially a stall tactic.

Biden’s Solar Push Is Destroying the Desert and Releasing Stored Carbon

In the US, Biden’s Solar Push Is Destroying the Desert and Releasing Stored Carbon

When bureaucrats put their personal agenda ahead of what science can deliver, bad things happen.

Unfortunately, that’s happening globally. The main pushback now is in Europe. 

For discussion, please see Germany is Turning Against the EU’s Green New Deal, Common Sense to the Forefront

Also see An Excellent Green Energy Proposal From France, President Biden Should Pay Attention

We are marching too far too fast towards politically-mandated solutions that do not work with current technology and infrastructure.

This post originated at MishTalk.Com

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32 Comments
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StukiMoi
StukiMoi
2 years ago
“We need to invest in tomorrow’s technologies, not yesterday’s.”
‘Cause “We the apparatchiks” know what “tomorrows technologies” are. And, like, stuff!
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babelthuap
babelthuap
2 years ago
EV’s, in the current state (not future state of popular science) will work for some countries quite well. Others not so much. Same for solar and wind. But it’s more complicated than just countries. Every region will have different energy needs. The way things are going in Europe though it would behoove them to start getting diesel. A lot of it and a lot more tanks. All these mandates and renewable rules will go out the window if this war expands which it likely will. Nobody seems to want it to stop.
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KidHorn
KidHorn
2 years ago
Reply to  babelthuap
What countries won’t EVs work for?
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StukiMoi
StukiMoi
2 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
The ones more spread out than Monaco. For a start.
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Nanook
Nanook
2 years ago

How valid is it to hold up Norway as an example of being Green when 73% of their national exports are oil and gas production? Subsidizing your standard of living and maintaining social order with oil profits and claiming to be Green is hypocritical. When they leave the oil in the ground and deal with the lower standard of living that will require and not have civil unrest, then I will be impressed. For now, they are no better than anyone else.

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StukiMoi
StukiMoi
2 years ago
Reply to  Nanook
Even “leave oil in the ground” will only ever be temporary. Stuffing all known wells, and future, full of highly radioactive waste in order to massively drive up future recovery costs; is a minimum requirement for demonstrating one genuinely “cares” about limiting fossil fuels, in any meaningful. Otherwise; “we’ll of course have to make an exception sometime. And, like, stuff!”
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PapaDave
PapaDave
2 years ago
“We are marching too far too fast towards politically-mandated solutions that do not work with current technology and infrastructure.” Maybe. Maybe not.
Some are marching faster than others. Ninety-nine percent of Norway’s electricity is from renewables. Ninety percent of new car sales in Norway are EVs. Admittedly, a small market, but it appears as though it is possible to implement the current technology after all.
How about In the worlds largest energy and vehicle market, China? China’s renewable electricity production is 45% of its total, growing fast, and the renewable total already exceeds 1000 GW. And they are adding more renewables each year than the rest of the world combined. In addition EV sales are now 25% of the 23 million cars sold per year. Of course they lead in a lot of other areas as well. How about the 30,000 miles of high speed rail lines added in the last 15 years and a train system that runs on electricity. And they are now introducing hydrogen powered trains.
I wonder how long it will be before Mish and others are complaining about how our government has let us fall behind China in the race to the future. We seem to have already lost out on solar panel and windmill manufacturing.
Though, please note that I am still skeptical about quickly the world as a whole will transition towards all renewable energy and all EVs. Which is why I remain heavily invested in oil and gas companies for the rest of this decade.
I am just pointing out that some countries are transitioning faster and more successfully than others.
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Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear
2 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Norway has more renewable natural resources than its population demands; therefore EV’s are feasible. China has a very dense population, who travel light, with significant rail service between cities; so EV range isn’t an issue. China does, however, use coal as an energy source to heat steam turbines. I do not know what percent of China’s grid capacity is being used; but I would expect the leadership has built infrastructure to handle anticipated use.
The US does not lend itself to large scale use of electric vehicles. The infrastructure is not in place. In fact the existing electric grid has rolling brownouts. To many Americans, the car is the embodiment of freedom; go where / whenever you want to.
Once you’ve had freedom, you don’t want to give it up. If you’ve grown up not knowing freedom; then the tiniest bit by allowed by an EV is very exciting.
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PapaDave
PapaDave
2 years ago
Reply to  Six000mileyear
A successful energy transition requires a complex combination of many things in parallel, happening at the same time. A small sample would include buildout of renewable energy sources and storage systems, upgrading and updating the transmission grid, buildout of charging stations, enticements to switch to EVs etc etc etc.
Those that are expecting that type of coordination to happen naturally in the private sector are either out of touch with reality, or willing to wait a hundred or more years for it to occur on its own, if at all.
So it requires the hand of government to assist in the coordination of this transition. Which is not unusual and has happened over and over in US history. Think roads and highways, bridges, rail systems, airports and air traffic control, dams, water and sewer, ports, the electrical grid, the internet, etc
Our current economy could not exist without the hand of government helping to create all that, in addition to the private sector.
Norway and China are both countries where the government is helping coordinate a successful energy transition. Yet their governments are about a different in philosophy as you can get. If they can both do it, why can’t we?
“The US does not lend itself to large scale use of electric vehicles. The infrastructure is not in place. In fact the existing electric grid has rolling brownouts. To many Americans, the car is the embodiment of freedom; go where / whenever you want to.”
So the US needs to update and upgrade its infrastructure if it wishes to compete in this worldwide energy transition. We have some advantages. We already have a lot of the infrastructure in place; 22% of our electricity already comes from renewables; we have a national grid (well except for Texas) which can be upgraded; we already have the road and highway system. But very little will happen by relying on the private sector on its own. Government needs to get involved if we want to compete with Norway and China and others.
With a successful transition we can get in our EV and go wherever we want to go, just like we could in our ICE vehicles.
Or, we can do nothing, and watch the rest of the world pass us by
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Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
2 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
“With a successful transition we can get in our EV and go wherever we want to go, just like we could in our ICE vehicles.”
And with a click of the heels of our silver slippers we can wish ourselves anywhere, just like Dorothy.
This transition will be slower than the politicians and greenies hope, and we will never be complete free of hydrocarbon fuels.
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PapaDave
PapaDave
2 years ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker

Thats what I have been saying for 3 years. The transition is not going well. It is happening far too slowly to make a dent in fossil fuel use. Which is why I remain heavily invested in oil and gas companies.

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Mike 2112
Mike 2112
2 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
China gets a 1/3 of their electricity from renewables, not 45%.
And China is building 2 coal fired plants a week, so I’m not sure I trust that number.
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Cabreado
Cabreado
2 years ago
“France Wants the EU to Drop..”
Why not France drop the EU?
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pimaC
pimaC
2 years ago
Reply to  Cabreado
Why not all EU countries drop the EU? Brexit for all!
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8dots
8dots
2 years ago
Citroen DeShvo are better than EV
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Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
2 years ago
Reply to  8dots
I agree, except for the side windows.
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blacklisted
blacklisted
2 years ago
Another example of reality exposing the evil objectives of the Global Green Communists, led by the Mother WEFers. Who in their right mind can believe EV’s are going to replace combustion cars, even in the next 20-30 years? Unless, of course, one believes in the WEF’s depopulation tactics and they can herd everyone into 15-min cities. Their anti-human tactics will fail, but they will reek havoc as they lash out in desperation to hold onto power. Once again, look at everything through the lens of the Great Reset / Build Back Better / 4th Industrial Revolution and all of the illogical behavior by the establishment makes perfect sense.
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pimaC
pimaC
2 years ago
Reply to  blacklisted
Before covid, I believed that the planet was warming, just wasn’t sure about how fast and how much of the warming was due to us burning fossil fuels. Since covid, however, I have some to the following conclusion:
If governments around the world are pushing a narrative that will
1) give them more control over the people, and/or
2) give them an excuse to raise taxes or steal land from the people,
they are LYING!
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KidHorn
KidHorn
2 years ago
Reply to  blacklisted
EVs are going to replace gas cars. I think by 2030, it will be hard to find a new gas car for sale.
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Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
2 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
In the future only the rich will have new cars that run on petrol.
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pimaC
pimaC
2 years ago
Three points:
1) Toyota has already made an internal combustion engine that runs on hydrogen. If we can figure out a way to efficiently produce hydrogen, then all these millions of cars with ICE’s could be converted to run on hydrogen.
2) EV’s have issues, like how will the electricity be produced to charge the EV batteries, and can we mine the necessary metals for the EV batteries without making an even bigger mess than we’re currently making?
3) We have time. Even if the climate scientists are right and we do continue to warm, we have at least 100 years to come up with solutions. Warp speed development of anything is a guaranteed disaster.
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TexasTim65
TexasTim65
2 years ago
Reply to  pimaC
Regarding point #1. We need a lot more than just efficient ways to produce hydrogen. We’d need transportation systems to transport it, we’d need delivery systems to pump it into cars and so on. Hydrogen is notoriously difficult to keep from leaking (and yes I know we can mix with ammonia and crack as needed but that adds complexity). Hydrogen as a fuel source makes the most sense on LARGE vehicles (18 wheelers, farm tractors, construction and mining vehicles, boats, trains etc) where electric just won’t do and likely will never do.
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blacklisted
blacklisted
2 years ago
Reply to  pimaC
Hydrogen is certainly more viable than electric cars. Climate “scientists” are just as wrong as all of the establishment-funded scientists at the CDC and WHO. We are cooling, not warming, and you are absolutely right, WARP speed development is a guaranteed disaster when the Govt is in charge. This little primer is helpful – https://www.conserve-energy-future.com/top-10-unbelievable-reasons-that-prove-global-warming-might-be-hoax.php
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KidHorn
KidHorn
2 years ago
Reply to  pimaC
1) Toyota is saying this because they’re hopelessly behind in making EVs. Hydrogen vehicle sales were 19% lower in 2022 than 2021. From an insanely low level. No car companies are going to mass produce hydrogen cars. Including Toyota.
2) There’s no shortage of metals. There’s plenty of lithium. There was a bottleneck refining it, but that’s no longer the case. EVs were about 5% of US vehicles sold in 2022. Was there an increase in blackouts? Most people charge overnight when prices are lower. Long term, solar and batteries will be more than enough to offset higher demand.
3) Most people who buy EVs do so because they’re better cars. Not because they want to save the planet.
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Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
2 years ago
A reprise of the original Global Warming IPCC.
The committee has decided.
Our minds are made up.
Do not confuse us with facts.
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Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
The problem with money is that you don’t if it was wasted until you spend it. The EV revolution, like just about all revolutions, came suddenly and against most pundit predictions has become the future of transportation period. If you are behind and the Europeans and Detroit are then you have no choice but to spend gobs of money to catch up and hope you are not too late. Paradoxically the Greens are a barrier in this game of catch up because by imposing ridiculous conditions and measures they are diverting the necessary funds into money pits that will do nothing to make things green and will guarantee that the green things they want will be make elsewhere by someone else. Therefore the Greens are too much of an impediment to coddle anymore. Reality is a hard master.
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StukiMoi
StukiMoi
2 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
“The EV revolution, like just about all revolutions, came suddenly”
In 1890 or thereabouts….
It was found wanting fairly quickly thereafter. After which nothing meaningful has changed to change that matter.
The ONLY reason properly seasoned and indoctrinated gullibles of the not-so-bright kind, can suddenly be fooled in greater numbers now; is that money printing allows the dimwits “anointed” by the money printing debasement thieves; to lose infinite money forever (or at least until everyone has been robbed of all that previous generations built up. (Then I suppose slave carried cars, Rome style, will be the next new-new thing for illiterates to “invest” in.)
Electric cars can work universally, at least theoretically, if, and only if, the roads they run on supply the electricity on a continuous basis. Conveniently, ditto “self driving” cars. Lots and lots of gains possible from such a roadnet. Downside is: they are awfully vulnerable to HIMARS rockets…. Battery cars, as opposed to merely electric ones, will never work universally. Not in 1890. Not in 1990. Not in 2090. And not in 3090.
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KidHorn
KidHorn
2 years ago
I agree that it’s pointless to invest in tail pipes. New gas cars will be going away long before 2035.
China has similar emission standards. In July they’ll implement 6B standards. I think China will sell a majority NEVs in 2024 and likely hit close to 80% in 2025. The rest of the world will soon follow.
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Matt3
Matt3
2 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
With China moving to EV’s, we will see a big reduction in CO2 from cars that will be running off electricity primarily generated with coal. So will the coal be more environmentally friendly than gas?
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TexasTim65
TexasTim65
2 years ago
Reply to  Matt3
Maybe, maybe not.
But at least the big cities will have far less smog which is a win.
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KidHorn
KidHorn
2 years ago
Reply to  Matt3
In the short term, maybe not, but long term they’ll increase their use of renewables, so long term it will help. Probably a lot. China makes over half the worlds solar panels.
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StukiMoi
StukiMoi
2 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
“New gas cars will be going away long before 2035.”
The Russians are busy making sure superchargers for Western battery APCs are in place for the Ukrainian counter offensive, as we speak! Ditto the Taliban for their battery Hilux’….
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