Germany Takes Putin’s Blackmail Threats Seriously, Is a Dirty Deal in the Works?

Image from Politico Tweet

Politico reports Canadian lawmakers called to explain return of Nord Stream turbines

Two federal ministers and three ambassadors will be asked to appear before the House of Commons foreign affairs committee to discuss the Canadian government’s controversial decision to return six Nord Stream 1 turbines to Germany.

During a meeting Friday, the committee agreed to call on Foreign Affairs Minister Mélanie Joly and Natural Resources Minister Jonathan Wilkinson to explain why the government decided to waive sanctions on Russia and return the pipeline parts to Germany, where they will be used to help deliver natural gas from Russia. The ministers will be asked to appear by July 22, subject to their availability.

“The government’s decision to suspend their own sanctions is a slap in the face to the Ukrainian people in their darkest hour,” Conservative international development critic Garnett Genuis told the committee. “It’s important that we are firm in our resolve. If we aren’t, then Russia will simply continue to escalate their pressure.”

Putin is Acting Rationally

Eurointelligence accurately notes Putin, is a Rational Agent.

Olivier Blanchard got the Russian gas policies spot on with his comment that Russia is a gas monopolist who faces inelastic European demand, meaning that Europe is dependent on it and has no alternative suppliers. Blanchard goes on to say we are in the rare situation where the monopolist has a reason to raise the price of his commodity to near infinity. The reason is that we announced to the world our intention to get out of Russian gas permanently once we have found alternative energy sources. The only thing that keeps a monopolist sweet is the expectation of further business in the future. We have taken that expectation away. The rational agent from the economics textbook would thus behave like the meanest monopolist. Raise the price until the pips squeak. 

A short while later, the Russia foreign ministry essentially followed up on Blanchard. It said that the further operation of the Nord Stream 1 pipeline will depend on economic sanctions. We expect the Germans to take Russia’s blackmail very seriously. Despite official denials, we believe that there is intense pressure within the government for a dirty deal with Putin: you, the Russians, keep the gas flowing. We, the Germans, commit to buying your gas at least 10 years. But we won’t tell anyone now. Nobody will care anymore when this becomes clear in two years time.

This is not what the Germans will ever admit. Not even privately. We may be wrong on this. We may underestimate Olaf Scholz’ determination to make Germany, and his party, independent from Russia. The Germans won’t blame Scholz and his government for gas shortages. Everybody knows that the dependency on Russian gas was the work of Gerhard Schröder and Angela Merkel, not of Scholz, Robert Habeck or Christian Lindner.

We already saw that the Scholz administration was willing to break sanctions just for the sake of the gas. They put pressure on the Canadian government, presumably with some heavy pushing from the Biden administration, to send a turbine to Gazprom that was apparently needed for the maintenance work. The idea was, as Habeck said, not to give Putin an excuse to cut off the gas. It is rather naive, but very typical of the German discourse, to think that Putin needs excuses.

We look at Putin as that elusive rational agent from an mciroeconomics textbook. And he is confronted by customers who have never read economic textbooks. We are just adding one and one together.

Short Synopsis 

  • After Russia invaded Ukraine, Germany pledged to end dependence on Russian oil and natural gas.
  • Putin responded by reducing the flow of natural gas to the EU.
  • Putin is acting rationally in the short term by cutting supply to drive up the price.  He is acting rationally in the long term by simultaneously working on new energy pipelines to China. 
  • There is no means for Germany to meet its current energy demands without Russia.
  • Germany pressured Canada to break its sanctions and send parts to Germany. Don’t be surprised if those parts end up in Russia. 

Saudi Arabia Buys Oil From Russia at a Discount Then Sells it to the EU

The world’s largest oil exporter is buying oil from Russia and reselling it. 

For details, please see Saudi Arabia Buys Oil From Russia at a Discount Then Sells it to the EU

Sanction Madness

The entire madness of sanctions is in plain sight. Putin is making more on oil and gas, even with discounts on oil than he did before.

In the matter of German military pledges to Ukraine, guess why those deliveries never seem to make it. 

No one knows what Putin might ask for next. But whatever it is, Germany is likely to deliver.

Eurointelligence came to this conclusion: “Despite official denials, we believe that there is intense pressure within the government for a dirty deal with Putin.”

The EU has barely lifted a finger on anything and won’t, even if there is no dirty deal.

This post originated at MishTalk.Com.

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Lord
Lord
3 years ago
Deutschland does what’s in Deutschland’s interest!
GruesomeHarvest
GruesomeHarvest
3 years ago
What dirty deal? Seems more like enlightened self interest.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Perhaps both, but can we call it what it is? Cynical self-interest. Realpolitik. Perfectly fair to call it out for what it is.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
To elaborate, for all of the many faults and fuc*ups of America, a country still under constuction and an empire that is both new and uncomfortable for Americans, even though we enjoy its benefits, one thing this country still does is call things by their real names. It can happen right away, or it can take time, but it is an essential part of the American character. This country will indulge all kinds of bullsh*t, until we don’t. When the worm turns, better watch out. No better friend, no worse enemy.
Germany pursues its own interests. Gee, that’s a sin? Not with me. The judgment comes with how that interest is pursued, and how the benefits are distributed. I am 100% of German heritage. I know in my lizard brain the pluses and the minuses of the Germanic mind. Let us not imagine that Germany (which was dirt poor until the mid-1800s) pursues “enlightened” self interest. They never have, and I don’t imagine that they ever will. America serves only itself? Look around, cynics. Take a good, hard, honest look around.
That much said, the Germans have contributed — for a tidy profit — much more to humanity than the Russians have, even the Nazis notwithstanding. Russia is a centuries-old clusterfu*k, always ruled by despots. No Russian leader should ever be trusted, even though “trust” is a sliding scale and never absolute. So: Russia is a nation of slaves ruled by thugs. Germany is beset by its contradictions, prone to bouts of idealistic insanity, but regularly turns out the world’s most brilliant engineers, scientists, and post-Greek philophers.
Call things by their real names, pro and con, and let the chips fall where they might. That’s the American way.
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
Considering how the EU has gotten just about everything wrong about the Russia-Ukraine border dispute, I would have to question their other absurd assumption – that Russia will not use tactical nuclear weapons. Pushed into a corner, I can’t see why they wouldn’t use them. What would they have to lose? Everything is sanctioned already. And NATO sure isn’t going to start lobbing nuclear weapons back – that’s total annihilation of the entire world. If you game it out, this is what is likely to happen should Ukraine ever get to a point where they look like they might win. So why are we helping Ukraine? They cannot ultimately win. Their people are dying for nothing.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
I highly doubt they’ll do it, if for no reason other than that the prevailing winds blow from west to east.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
They would if Moscow were about to fall. Which is why people who think we should invade Russia are insane.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
I see no sign that NATO will move on Moscow. They are looking pretty stupid, but I don’t think that stupid.
GruesomeHarvest
GruesomeHarvest
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
There was no boarder dispute. There was a roll NATO to your door step dispute.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Ukraine’s eastern provinces are ethnically Russian due to Stalin. Ukraine attacked those provinces after 2010 or so, something that “the West” has ignored. The invasion did not spring out of nowhere, to put it mildly. This is not to support that invasion, but rather to understand its roots.
Dutoit
Dutoit
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
I don’t see that they are put into a corner.
Dr. Odyssey
Dr. Odyssey
3 years ago
Reply to  Dutoit

“We Americans have played a leading role in what is shaping up as a Second Cold War, more dangerous than the first.Over the last quarter-century, after Russia dissolved the Warsaw Pact and let the USSR break apart into 15 nations, we pushed NATO, created to corral and contain Russia, into Central and Eastern Europe. In 2008, neocons goaded Georgia into attacking South Ossetia, provoking Russian intervention and the rout of the Georgian army. In 2014, neocons goaded Ukrainians into overthrowing the elected pro-Russian regime in Kiev. When they succeeded, Putin seized Crimea and Sevastopol, for centuries the home base of Russia’s Black Sea fleet.”

“In 2022, Moscow asked the U.S. to pledge not to bring Ukraine into NATO. We refused. And Putin attacked. If Russians believe their country has been pushed against a wall by the West, can we blame them?”

“Americans appear dismissive of dark Russian warnings that rather than accept defeat in Ukraine, the humiliation of their nation, and their encirclement and isolation, they will resort to tactical nuclear weapons.”

Dutoit
Dutoit
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
Lots of tanks and materials captured by the Russian armed forces after the battles of Lisichansk:
They have bought two of our cannons Caesar to corrupted Ukrainian officers for 120000$ each. And there are rumors about a captured Himars system too.
I think that the US and UE MSM massively underestimate (or try to hide) the ongoing Ukrainian defeat.
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
Gazprom has declared force majeure and will be cutting supplies to Germany. Putin has Germany’s balls in his hand and is giving them a little twist.
Stunning stupidity from the EU – “We’re going to supply your enemy with money and weapons but we expect you to keep providing us with cheap energy”. Wtf?
lamlawindy
lamlawindy
3 years ago
Blanchard is correct. Ordinarily, the monopolist doesn’t want to raise prices atmospherically because demand destruction will typically ensue. Here, the west has told Russia that demand destruction is coming. There’s no reason for Russia to hold back now, except perhaps for geopolitical reasons.
JRM
JRM
3 years ago
Reply to  lamlawindy
Demand destruction is not coming for Russia, they are gaining more global markets than they had before their invasion of Ukraine..
lamlawindy
lamlawindy
3 years ago
Reply to  JRM
True, not anytime soon. However, sky-high prices do incentivize searches for alternatives to the expensive product. For example — at some given price point — a nation will throw up its hands and say, “Screw it! Nuclear is now cheaper than Russian gas.” Ideally, Russia wants to keep profiting but without reaching that point.
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
3 years ago
Reply to  lamlawindy
… I read somewhere that Russia produces 50% of uranium bars….Nice !
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels
Without Russian uranium, France’s reactors will be in trouble.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  lamlawindy
Lots of moving parts for the Russkies to think about, but one consideration no longer applies vis a vis Europe: “reliability.” Europe has shown itself to be unreliable, and to be thieves. Same for the United States. Make no mistake, Putin now holds Europe’s economy in the palm of his hand, and with it much of the rest of the world’s economy.

The blame for that lies squarely with Xiden and the Germans.

soupcon
soupcon
3 years ago
Classic shock doctrine by the WEF. Not a brain amoungst the EU policitians who seem quite willing to throw their old age pensioners, and those on fixed incomes into the morgue this winter and their entire economies under the bus. None of the WEF leaders are elected and yet they seem to have a firm grip on the EU whose elected politicians are following them blindly over the cliff like lemmings. Hopefully the citizens will revolt and replace their gov’ts. Winter is coming.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
I skimmed through all the comments on this topic. All kinds of “expert opinions” and “conspiracy theories” by people who have no say in the decision making. Too bad no one who matters really cares about your opinions. Blah blah blah.
Now, what does really matter to me is the investment opportunity that arises from the situation.
Got oil and nat gas stocks?
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
And that interests us how?
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  Webej

Lol! You are a perfect example. Thanks!

Apparently, assessing a situation, and then making investment decisions as a result, does not interest very many commenters here. They would prefer to spend all their time telling you their pet theories about what is right or wrong with this situation or that situation. As if their opinion was somehow going to make a difference to the situation.

I prefer to assess a situation and try to figure out how to make money from it. Because its a waste of time to pretend you can make any difference to that situation.
So, go back to your discussion and tell everyone what’s wrong and how “you” would fix it. And don’t forget to complain about the high price of energy at the same time. Because complaining always helps fix things.
JRM
JRM
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
So you would not allow freedom of discussion if you were running MISH talk??
So in effect you don’t like to hear “OPINIONS”!!!
You are making financial decisions from “OPINIONS”!!!!!
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  JRM
He has at no point advocated censorship. Stop lying.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
I appreciate that. Thank you.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
My middle name could be “free speech.” I’ve come after you on this or that, but never, ever have I accused you of supporting censorship. That accusation is complete b.s. in my opinion. JRM, if you can’t handle PapaDave’s posts, then ignore him. Easy to do. But please don’t sit there and lie about him. I think the answer to free speech is more free speech, but if you’re going to get a coronary over what he writes and/or have decided that he posts nothing of value, then ignore him. I’ve done that with a couple regulars here.

He has a point, by the way. There’s a lot of discursive yammering here, a fair amount of which is my own. Hell, I find myself getting tired of myself at times. It happens. Everyone here (or most) is trying to navigate a rushing and unpredictable river in a highly uncertain environment. He’s frustrated by the yammering. I am too at times. To call it out is not to want to censor it.

PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Well said. Life is too short to waste “a lot” of time arguing about things we cannot control. We all do it to some degree. But some get carried away. In addition, it often gets political, when it doesn’t have to. Which only makes it a bigger waste of time. Because most will never agree if it is political.
The older I get, the less time I want to waste.
JRM
JRM
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
You need to learn to read!!!
“I skimmed through all the comments on this topic. All kinds of “expert
opinions” and “conspiracy theories” by people who have no say in the
decision making. Too bad no one who matters really cares about your
opinions. Blah blah blah.”
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  JRM
That was not a call for censorship. Stop lying.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  JRM
It is not my blog. And people are are entitled to their opinion. I am merely surprised at how much time people waste on such unproductive conversation that accomplishes so little.
I come here to get investment ideas, and sometimes there are some really good nuggets of info. But I tire of having to wade through so much garbage to find them.
JRM
JRM
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
So people’s “opinions” are “GARBAGE”??
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  JRM
Of course not. Not all opinions are garbage. Just way too many of the opinions here are in that category. What a waste of time.
Speaking of which, I have wasted far too much of my time on you already. Don’t expect another reply from me today unless it relates to useful investment ideas.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Perhaps the more important fact about the turbines is why Russia couldn’t fix or build them themselves.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
How do you know they can’t? We import a lot of stuff we could make ourselves.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Actually that aspect has been looked into with the conclusion of not being very likely. Those turbines are some of the most high-tech pieces of machinery and the market is held by only four players, General Electric (GE), Germany’s Siemens, the Japanese company, Mitsubishi Hitachi and Italy’s Ansaldo Energia. Any replacement turbines Russia could make would be low efficient and massively expensive. It is a good example of technological primitivation as high is replaced by lower tech. Check it out.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Why are they in Canada? Do the Canucks at Dominion Engineering know more? Is Germany lacking turbine engineers?
What happened last time Siemens sanctioned turbines for a Russian project, couple of years ago?
The Russians built their own, just as they build their own rocket engines (so the Americans can hitch a ride, lacking their own), commercial planes, and tens of thousands of high-precision hypersonic maneuvering missiles (such as the Kinzhal or the Zircon), invisible to air defense because the plasma envelope generated around the nose absorbs electro-magnetic radiation.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Webej
Dominion is specialized in this which is why they are the ones who fixed it obviously. Siemens built them so they know how to do it also. Russia does not. The Americans no longer use Russian engines because SpaceX and others are much less expensive. Perhaps you don’t know but SpaceX accounts for over 85% of total tonnage boosted into orbit in 2021 and 2022. Russia is at 3%. Your hypersonics are a bit more advanced now but that lead is disappearing. Putin though them his “magic bullet” because all his toadies told him so. They are not intimidating anyone. He was also told they were “invisible”. They are not. Read up what is written by the experts. It’s Putin’s Wunderwaffe
JRM
JRM
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Russia did ask for them to be sent to Russia to be repaired, but Germany said no and sent them to Canada to be repaired..
My guess is KICK BACKS came into play!!!
RonJ
RonJ
3 years ago
“Sanction Madness”
It’s getting to be a trend, along with lockdown Madness, Covax Madness, and Great Reset Madness.
Dutoit
Dutoit
3 years ago
Russia Vs. Ukraine Or Civil War In The West?
Dutoit
Dutoit
3 years ago
I was told and I believed that it should not be a problem for NATO to overcome a country whose GDP is less than that of Spain…
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Dutoit
Nato hasn’t attacked Russia and Russia hasn’t attacked Nato soit hasn’t come to a test.
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
3 years ago
Reply to  Dutoit
Actually, GDP doesn t say it all, much of Spain’s GDP is debt driven, 120% debt/GDP, go figure what a debt cesspool Spain has become ever since it adopted the insane megalomania currency named Euro…..
whirlaway
whirlaway
3 years ago
Reply to  Dutoit
Most of their GDP is from things made or grown or extracted. Unlike the US and elsewhere in the West, where a good part of the GDP is generated by endlessly moving financial jello across the plate, and from pretending that the right hand paid the left hand etc.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  Dutoit
  • Imagine a country where no housing is being constructed. Prices jump as people scramble to get a house that is appreciating in value. GDP is going up and up, but is the economy growing?
  • Imagine a country where the lettuce costs 2 cents a head, and you can rent for $4 a month. It has a low GDP. Does this mean everybody is dying b/c their annual income would be too little to survive in Switzerland for a week?
  • Imagine a country that produces more steel than the US, 3× as much aluminum, more nickel, diamonds, titanium, more uranium, exports more wheat, more oil, and more gas. And produces thousands of tanks and high precision missiles and is virtually independent in terms of manufacturing capabilities.
Do you think Spain can measure up by waving a paper stating a GDP number?
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Two points of fact:
  • Are the Saudis reselling Russian oil, or are they displacing their own oil needs and export to third parties and selling Saudi oil to the EU. If not, they would have to worry about how to circumvent problems with sanctions. I have gathered that it is fuel oil and not crude that they are importing.
  • Are the turbines confirmed to be in Russia?
Denver1
Denver1
3 years ago
Left out the part of parachuting Hunter and a thousand other Beltway warriors back into Ukraine to finish off Russia. More seriously, left out Reuters report that Russia, Turkey and Ukraine without Euro or US have been meeting last week to ship Ukraine grain to world thru Black Sea.
Unfortunately, Europe and US have been name calling, building wind mills and electing fools while Russia is getting richer and expanding their energy and food transit shortcuts to China, India and the Middle East. On the other hand, we are in chaos. Biden made a fool of himself to the world last week, Merkel left Germany in January, Draghi left Italy last week, Macron lost his majority in France two weeks ago, BOJO left Britain three weeks ago, etc.
Russia was paying Ukraine over 1.2 billion a year for transit of natural gas to Europe and more for discounts on gas it uses based on a 2019 EU brokered deal, but Russia gave notice it would not renew the end of 2023 according to DW. All those who have been helping Ukraine sanitize Russia from its borders such as McCain in his speech on the ground to the rioters to overthrow an elected Russian leaning President in 2016 have made no bones about their hate of Russia, or anyone not supporting Brussels and the Beltway…. and now Zalinsky, as he nationalized the Ukraine media and outlawed any dissident parties this year. The tragedy is once Kiev was the capitol of Russia.
Russia is no angel, but the lack of facts, honesty, intelligent discourse and diplomacy is killing the West.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
If I were Putin, I’d keep it shut off, then in January I’d start flaring it off on Russian television and tell Europe that they’ll never get a single BTU of Russian gas again. I’d do the same with oil.
Nonplused
Nonplused
3 years ago
Well, the turbines do belong to Gazprom. I don’t know that Canada had any right to keep them, sanctions or no. It’s one thing to refuse to sell something you own. It’s quite another to seize another’s property. Have we completely forgotten the rule of law? One might say the invasion of Ukraine was against the law, but I’ve never heard it put forward that one crime justifies another.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  Nonplused
Once we seized their foreign reserves, the precedent was set. Anyone can take whatever they want in the name of democracy.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Is it even certain yet that those turbines are now in Russia?
As for being rational, is it more rational for Germans to sign a contract for cheap, reliable, stable gas input over the next 30 years, dealing from a position of industrial strength, or to continue with this petulant ‘No’ and weaken your own position industrially? Yes, it’s a rhetorical question.
As for public opinion, it tends to turn after a face-plant with reality.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  Webej
That was precisely the deal until “the West” decided to steal Russia’s money. It’s not Russia that’s been unreliable. It’s “the West” that’s unreliable. “The West” has been stupid. The “sanctions” have increased Russia’s income, and its current account surplus is the highest in 30 years. What “the West” has done has triggered many a war in the past.

Russia now sits in the driver’s seat. If they choose, they can send Europe into a depression by keeping the gas pipeline closed. They can do the same to the world economy by shutting off their oil. Or they can play along and bide their time. I am intensely interested in what comes next. The idea that “the West” can use its money to bring Russia to its knees is a vivid example of hubris.

Yep, Putin is a thug. Since when has Russia been ruled by anything else? Still: Russia lost 26 million men between 1942 and 1945. If I had to bet on who has more staying power, I’ll bet on the Russians and not “the West.” It’s not a bet I’d want to have to make, but this is the price of stupidity, arrogance, and delusion.

KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Russia has a huge home field advantage over the US in this war. I would guess the cost of every casualty is 100x times higher for NATO/US than it is for Russia.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago

Being a rational actor doesn’t mean that your analysis is
right. Being rational only means that you have arrived at a conclusion using
logic. It depends on having correct data inputs above all. Putin was told that
his armed forces were in great condition and that Ukraine would only put up limited
resistance. He was told that Germany would chose Russian gas over Nato
solidarity and would not sanction Russia. He was told that Nato countries would
only send limited amounts of arms to Ukraine. He was told that his foreign
reserves wouldn’t be frozen. The list of things he was told were true but weren’t
is long and although Putin is a rational thinker his inputs were false so his
actions although reached through logic proved to be completely wrong if his
goal is for Russia to regain great power status. To put it in a simpler way we
can say garbage in garbage out. It’s a common problem with countries run by one
man.

Germany’s military thanks to Merkle has very little
equipment to send. It has been starved of equipment for twenty years. Paradoxically
the German arms industry is very large, sophisticated and exports arms around
the world. Germany is the fourth largest
arms exporter after France. They just don’t sell much to the German military
because it isn’t a big market for them and consequently they don’t have much to
give now. In the future that will change because 100 billion Euros can buy you
a lot of equipment. Then we will see.

happypuppy888
happypuppy888
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
You may be confused. Me think.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  happypuppy888
It’s “me thinks” if you want to use the Elizabethan English term. If not then it is just bad English like “me Tarzan”. Show me where I am confused.
happypuppy888
happypuppy888
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Me think, Tarzan.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  happypuppy888
It is an incomplete phrase. You need a verb after Tarzan like “sucks” of “blows”. But don’t let him hear about you saying that about him because he will leave the jungle and beat the crap out of you.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Not that much. It requires steel, energy, aluminum, titanium and other inputs.
Thanks to Russia sanctions, there is a scarcity for all these inputs, which means only premium prices will get any.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Webej
“Not much” refers to what in what I wrote? Most of those input prices are down nicely.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
  • [Germany] can buy you a lot of equipment
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Webej
The US military spends only spends 30% more than that for equipment acquisitions in a normal year so 100 billion Euros buys a lot.
Nonplused
Nonplused
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Doug78, how do you know what Putin was told? Are you a mind reader? Or did you believe CNN when they told you what Putin was told? How did they know? How can we trust them when they get everything else wrong? Remember, CNN was quite sure about the “Russian Collusion” story for 4 years, and it turned out to be a complete hoax.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Nonplused
Well if Putin had been told the truth about Ukraine, his armed forces, Nato’s reaction, the deep sanctions, the EU deciding to ween off Russian oil and gas forever, the incorporation of Finland and Sweden into Nato then I would have to conclude that he isn’t a rational actor at all but supremely stupid. So is he badly served by his underlings or is he stupid?
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Has the fat person sung yet?
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Putin has a puffy face but I don’t think he is actually fat but he can sing and play the piano. He can sing but that won’t change anything.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
  • Putin was told that his armed forces were in great condition and that Ukraine would only put up limited resistance.
  • He was told that Germany would chose Russian gas over Nato solidarity and would not sanction Russia.
  • He was told that Nato countries would only send limited amounts of arms to Ukraine.
  • He was told that his foreign reserves wouldn’t be frozen.
  • The list of things he was told were true but weren’t is long.
  • Although Putin is a rational thinker his inputs were false
So in one paragraph you have managed to insert 7 assumptions which we in no way know to be factual, nor are they easily confirmed.
You think Putin is not smart enough to get himself accurate inputs … that is possible, but is it in fact true?
We do know that Putin thought all the sanctions were inevitable in the course of time and were therefore not worth considering.
And that he has been gaming all the possibilities, among them about things you claim to know, beforehand for years, inducing him to get Russia to produce 6 unstoppable assymmetrical weapons capabilities to give them a strategic edge (avant garde; kinzhal; zircon; sarmat; poseidon; burevestnik) in response to American strategic encirclement and put to rest American wet dreams of winning a first strike or preemptive nuclear war.
If his goal is for Russia to regain great power status.
At least you have inserted an ‘If’; Has Putin ever stated this as a goal? Well, no. However, he has stated some other goals very clearly.
One is no further NATO expansion eastwards, and certainly not in Ukraine … that was in 2007, when they told the American ambassador that nyet means nyet. Other goals are clearly stated in the peace treaty they offered Natostan in Nov/Dec 2021 (no forward based Americans on their borders; no missile systems on their doorstep; a new security architecture that does more than lip service to the principle of ‘indivisible security’).
He does not want the Soviet Union back, which he hates as a Russian nationalist. Yes he did state that the dissolution of the Soviet Union was a catastrophe for Russia … because it left 30 million Russians stranded outside the borders of their homeland.
He has stated emphatically numerous times that Russia does not need more land … it has enough land and resources. What it needs instead is more social & economic development, which is why Russia has sought cooperation with Western Europe for decades (?remember the proposal to become part of nato in 2001).
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Webej
Why don’t you copy your post and put it up the next time Mish talks about Ukraine. That way all can see it and either agree or refute and we could have some good discussion. Your post now is too far down the list for anyone but you and me to see.
JRM
JRM
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
We American’s were lied to for 20 years about US was winning the war in Afghanistan..
The most powerful military lost a “WAR”!!!
Within a year the US and it’s allies pushed the Taliban down to less than 10% of Afghanistan, but slowly for the next 20 years they were gaining back that territory!!!
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  JRM
I think the last “war” the US won was in Grenada rescuing medical students, or perhaps Panama when they snatched Noriega. I think they lost in Korea, Vietnam, Somalia, etc. etc… Does helping NATO to bomb Yugoslavia and Libya count?
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
3 years ago
If you start your analysis with wrong assumptions, you’re bound to come to wrong conclusions.
Gerhard Schroder and Angela Merkel made the rational decision based on the assumption that Russia is a willing and reliable supplier of energy to Europe. Russia agreed, and planed her economic development on integration with the West, and Europe in particular.
How were they to know that the US deep state will plan and conduct a reckless and adventurous coup d’etat in Ukraine, to turn it into a wedge against Russia?
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Russia has proved to be completely reliable, never doing any Yankee style arm-twisting behind the scenes for political reasons.
Germany could sign a 30 year contract for all the gas they need at stable discounted prices tomorrow.
They are doing this to themselves.
Scooot
Scooot
3 years ago
Reply to  Webej
“Russia has proved to be completely reliable”
Not really, when they were amassing men and equipment on the border they repeatedly said they had no intentions of invading.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  Scooot
That doesn’t make them unreliable. It barely even makes them deceptive, given that it was hardly a secret.
Scooot
Scooot
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
It shows you can rely on them to not do as they say, sometimes. -:)
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  Scooot
So what? Lying is part of war. Russia lied. Xiden lied. The Europeans lied. If you want to get your knickers in a twist, fine. LOL
effendi
effendi
3 years ago
Reply to  Scooot
You presume they were lying about having no intentions of invading? Perhaps they were not lying and were there only as a warning to Ukraine not to keep shelling the Donbas. But 3 or so days before Russia did invade the Ukrainians massively increased their shelling of the Donbas. Putin then had what option but to protect them by hitting Ukraine. Maybe he expected Ukraine to realise that they were in a hopeless situation and negotiate. But the Ukrainians didn’t collapse as expected and the West slapped sanctions on Russia expecting it to fold. That also didn’t happen.
So 5 months later Russia is slowly winning, the Ukraine is in a worse negotiating position and Europe has painted itself into a corner with rebounding sanctions.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  effendi
I presume the Russians were lying. It’s what happens on the eve of war. And guess what? It doesn’t matter.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Because that’s what our CIA and state department do. 24 hours a day. 7 days a week. Pretty much the only thing they do.
Dutoit
Dutoit
3 years ago
I think that UE can do even better: like for oil, buy Russian LNG sold by Russia to another country
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  Dutoit
LNG requires massive infrastructure to make. It is 1½ × more expensive than pipeline gas (the process consumes capital + energy).
There just isn’t enough LNG capacity on the planet to circumvent pipeline supply.
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
3 years ago
The US ordered the EU to commit suicide and the morons we got for leaders happily and eagerly agreed ! Makes me wonder, is it arrogance, ignorance, megalomania or plain stupidity rather? Probably the latter, I am inclined to believe, especially when judging the idiotic, totally useless and counterproductive experimental vaxxination campaign with lethal clot shots undoubtedly and empirically fckn up natural immunity for years to come……
ColoradoAccountant
ColoradoAccountant
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels
The A students go into science and medicine. The B students go into business. The C students go into politics.
honestcreditguy
honestcreditguy
3 years ago
no the criminals go into politics, if I knew you could make so much dirty money in politics I would have taken it up….criminalization be damned
Dutoit
Dutoit
3 years ago
Something that I saw on in TV since the 1970’s : in the beginning, people considered as “experts” and very valuable for society were from science and medicine. The in the 80’s-90’s there was an increasing proportion of people from business. Since 2000’s it’s one half from business and one half from so called “political sciences”.
Of course with this war we have also a lot of “generals” that have never experienced any war.

Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
A students go into science and medicine because it’s interesting for them. B students go into business because they want to make money. C students go into politics because they see that it’s the easiest way to get rich by leeching off the A and B students’ efforts.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels
I laugh at this idea that the EU is a child with no control over its destiny.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Only because you are on the outside.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  Webej
If they’re children, whose fault is that? Europe is a joke.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
europeans got fat dumb and happy living off uncle sam largess. very similar to fly over country welfare folks from farmers to food pantries……………..and no different from their suburban and city welfare queens. it’s the curse of the blessing of the rich world. lots of lazy and fat and unthinking folks, who are easily fooled to behave ridiculously.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Seems to me that the EU is the same as the US when it comes to ‘control’. Diversity can be a bit-ch when there’s no sense of unity! We also need to remember that the average IQ is 100, or below for both the EU and US. That limits the ability to think both critically and consequentially. Most people believe that they are told, and seek media that meets their beliefs and values.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Such is the fallacy of pure democracy. The vote of a high-grade moron with an IQ of 70 is equal to the vote of a low-end genius with an IQ of 130. Should everyone be treated equally? YES! Should morons help to select our leadership? Not a good system.
Then there’s the moral and ethical side of things. Take a good look at the politicians.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels
In my professional life I have noticed the flattest learning curves are produced by mixing contempt & fear.
Stupidity & ignorance can usually not be helped, because people tend to be willfully, deliberately & studiously ignorant. If you do not delimit the extent of your own knowledge, you are unaware of what you know not, and there is no motivation to learn — after all, what could possibly be worth knowing?
So I would say it is the willful ignorance borne of the conceit that power brings.
As for Covid, it is obvious that the only way to one-up all the stupidity of blindly following absolutely useless magical measures is to mandate people jump off their roof ‘for your health & that of the public’. This is getting us pretty close to suicide, so we have already been practising.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Webej
Hey!
I’ve made up my mind.
Don’t confuse me with facts!
Scooot
Scooot
3 years ago
If they do a deal would Germany be sanctioned?
davidyjack
davidyjack
3 years ago
The West needs to stand up to autocrats. It will cause a decent amount of economic pain, but in the long run it is the right choice. Strong autocrats will eye and will often weaker neighbors if the West does little or nothing.
Dutoit
Dutoit
3 years ago
Reply to  davidyjack
Fortunately the valiant US army will protect us
hmk
hmk
3 years ago
Reply to  Dutoit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ar7vYg0pY We are circling the drain. This is what happens when you hire people based on diversity,wokeness rather than merit. I hope the morons in charge of this insance leftist garbage select their next brain surgeon based on wokenss rather than competence.
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
3 years ago
Reply to  davidyjack
.. Western leaders themselves are becoming more autocratic by the day, so what are you on about ? Utterly stupid and worthless autocrats on top of that….
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Just reading now on Zero Hedge that Gazprom won’t resume gas flows on the 22nd citing Force Majeure (extraordinary circumstances).
That’s going to wreak holy hell on the EU and the markets once it gets digested.
I didn’t think Russia would do this because long term it’s not in their interest unless they really can’t resume flows due to missing/lack of parts.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Nobody knows that –it is an opinion.
As far as I can tell the Russians recently said they don’t have the turbines yet, so I don’t know if they’re actually in Russia yet.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Webej
The turbines are in Germany now.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Russia has plenty of other customers. No one has noticed, but they’re sending diesel and fertilizer to Brazil.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
i said since beginning of this mess few months ago, the net net net affect will be the EU pivoting away from USA. our sanctions against Persia made them pivot to persia. now our dumb sanctions against russia will do the same. of course the germans are idiots for dismantling nukes, and outsourcing their defense to amerikan empire. this will change i suspect over the next decade. pax dumbfu**istan is crumbling fast, being ruled by nitwits like biden and trump. our people are at war against each other on dumb Blue v Red teams, like it’s college football game or some idiotic game. and gunning down kids in malls and schools………………
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
When it comes to energy, the ‘nitwit’ is Biden. FYI, Trump saw Ukraine for what it really is–a cesspool of corruption. He encouraged/expanded drilling/energy production in the US, slowed the green agenda, and strongly advised not to build the Nord lines, not something the biased American media ever reported.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
no argument from me on that comment.
ColoradoAccountant
ColoradoAccountant
3 years ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
The sanctions were against Russia de jure but against Europe de facto.
dtj
dtj
3 years ago
I’m predicting the next twist in the story: the $40 billion we sent to Ukraine got sent to Putin by mistake. Oops. He will pay us back, but only in rubles which have appreciated 50% against the dollar since the sanctions we put in.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  dtj

That’s not what the USD RUB chart says. Go take a look before at the chart continuing to spread that lie. The ruble is down 50% since march… Id anyone is even buying any.

Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz

I got the pairs transposed neeeeeever mind.

Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Too bad you have only 4 mins to change/delete a post.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Webej
It takes me that long to fix my spelling mistakes.
effendi
effendi
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
I respect the fact that you admitted making a mistake. Clearly you are not a politician
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Putin has won the war. The sooner we accept it and make peace, the better off everyone (outside of US war mongers) will be.
Eighthman
Eighthman
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
The sooner the Russians win, the fewer innocent Ukrainian lives will be lost. I assert that the EU/US may be playing a cynical game against Ukraine. The more the Russians kill, the fewer problems EU/US may have as Ukraine shrinks. Young people die or leave and that’s that.
Were Germany and Japan better off after WW2? Definitely. The average Ukrainian may be better off under somewhat corrupt Russia, rather than very corrupt Zelensky.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
This would require American politicians, military leaders, and the media to think critically–not likely, if even possible. Today’s hatred of Russia is irrational, based on residual fears from the Cold War.
honestcreditguy
honestcreditguy
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
could be also based on who is in charge, there were few issues with Russia over last 20 years……the democrats changed it in 2014 and then really ramped it up with dementia joe in there…..How is leftist retard Rep. Swallowell still on house foreign intelligence committee, he slept with a Chinese spy for years….and his wife, a dope dope sheep like him, stayed with the traitor

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