Here are a few Tweets that express the sentiment change. The first Tweet is the most important one.
https://twitter.com/Mallocallidus3/status/977683452345466880
Bye Bye Boomers
Like it or not, boomers are not going to be in control forever. In fact, we will soon be gone.
We will be replaced by generations that see things radically different about race, religion, abortion, housing, cars, the ownership society, and about guns.
My Opinion
Those fighting gun control are on thepolitical losing endof the debate.
I can easily argue the gun-control debate from either side. But It’s pointless.
I am telling you “What Is“. More gun controls are coming.
Mike “Mish” Shedlock.
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Laws do not prevent crimes, otherwise our courts would be empty. Gun control is a losing issue whether you want to admit it or not. America was founded when the British tried to disarm the colonists. The 2nd Amendment is a foundation of this country, without it you are calling for Civil War 2, so don’t be naive in your little fantasy bubble–violence is a human condition and will continue with whatever tools are available. A victim can bleed out from a knife attack in 2 minutes and it is a very popular method of murder in countries that have strict gun control. Also, the 5th Amendment against taking property without just compensation would require the government to purchase over 300 million firearms from the property owners in order to ban them. If you are against the US Constitution and private property, this is a big world, go find your place in it instead of trying to destroy this one. Mass murder and increasing violence is a modern social phenomenon, let’s focus on the family and economic opportunities and you will see less violence in society.
Like “hmk” said at the top; “Typical useless fucking ignorant leftist assholes. “
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/maven-user-photos/mishtalk/economics/if6MorQPtU2JV9IuM_OU4A/hVOYDCUaPkawmB_lBU8K4w
When the government no longer trust the people they will look to disarm them. You can look at Hitler, Stalin, Mao, they all needed a disarmed population. Governments wanting unlimited power seek to disarm. Look at the Hitler salute Hogg gave. The number of people in the picture and turnout is also misleading. Along with the people there just a bunch of National Socialists.
Let them change their rules. Good luck trying to enforce them. Remember, we have the guns and they don’t. Like it or not, might has always made right.
Silent majority (NRA) far outnumbers the useful idiots we see out protesting.
Bloomberg et al have found their dream pool of useful idiots. It reminds me of a lot of other countries taken over by socialism/communism, and then the population ALWAYS disarmed. The most basic of all human rights: self defense, is not recognized there.
I don’t know the exact details of the law but if you do not report your weapon stolen you will be charged with a criminal offense related to not reporting the theft. If its stolen and you don’t know it you better have a credible explanation of why. If someone in your household gets a hold of your gun and accidentally kills themselves or someone else again you will be in deep shit with the law. Even when there is a justifiable homicide your life will still be a miserable fucking mess because the police will make leave no stone unturned trying to prove the killing wasn’t justified. Then when they are finished with that the criminals family will sue you on top of it. Thank our great legal system and the lawyer politicians who enable it. This is what I learned when I took my concealed carry permit instructional course. They said even if the circumstances are obvious that you are completely innocent you should request an attorney and have one pre-selected that specializes in gun law.
Am I liable if someone steals a knife from my kitchen and kills someone? If someone steals my car and kills someone am I responsible? Your position is wrong, as you well know, because ONLY the perp is responsible for his actions. I assume you are not a lawyer.
BTW you are liable if your gun is used in a crime by you or someone else. If its stolen it must be reported and if not you are in trouble. Same if your gun is accessed by someone in the home and is hurt as a result or not secured properly while out of the house.
” I think your solution is like trying to ban alcohol as a means of preventing drunk driving fatalities.”
I think my solution is like trying to lower drunk driving fatalities by ensuring that the victims have legal recourse to compensation and that somebody whose gun is used in a crime sees increased costs. If you know that you are on the hook if somebody misuses your gun you are going to be more responsible, and if insurance companies charge higher costs for high risk individuals then maybe they will decide not to buy guns in the first place. With 300 million guns in our society we can’t legislate from the top down, we have to legislate from the bottom up – and making people think seriously about their guns instead of treating them like pocket knifes or screwdrivers will improve responsibility. Freedoms, as we all know, are not free.
I think your solution isn’t free market, its more govt regulation via requiring insurance and letting lawyers further feed off the public like a parasite. The problem is our culture as I was trying to point out. I think your solution is like trying to ban alcohol as a means of preventing drunk driving fatalities. Just doing “something,or anything” instead of a thorough analysis of the problems is to simplistic. No one want to do that however , its always a knee jerk response with a poorly thoughtout solution.
“Exactly you don’t get it as I thought. WTF I just can’t suffer idiots well.”
This is too easy – you don’t like my free market proposal so you denigrate me. If we both sat down for a beer and had a chat about the America we wanted to see we’d agree on 90%. And I’d be happy to buy the beers. Let’s figure out how we can make America better, safer for everybody and the society we want for ourselves and our kids.
@hmk : Dude can we agree that our goal is to reduce the number of people who die, regardless of instrument?
I contend that sensible measures that take into account the fact that we have about 300 million fire arms in circulation coupled with my belief that the free market is the most effective proven solution to most problems can deliver policies that combine the freedom we deserve from the second amendment plus the rights we have to be safe.
Exactly you don’t get it as I thought. WTF I just can’t suffer idiots well.
The enemy cannot be allowed our guns! 🙂
Okay if that kind of sentiment has recently become a typical thought among the mainstream right then I withdraw my argument that sentiment on gun control has not and cannot change across political boundries.
Gun control is important for countries overrun by immigrants.
“Next, if you take out just five US cities from the gun murder rate stats, Chiraq, Baltimore, New Orleans, St Louis and Detroit, the gun murder rate drops to the European average. What does that tell you? I’ll give you some time to figure it out but I doubt you will get it.
Oh and don’t forget the mass terrorist attack in heavily gun controlled France. You will never get it.”
Conflation of two arguments.
(1) Chicago, New Orleans, etc are adjacent to areas where gun control is a joke. Being able to go to a district 100 miles away and buy a gun with minimal controls then drive home makes a mockery of any gun legislation.
(2) France: gun violence is 1/3 of the U.S. even with their poor immigration policies.
Oh and don’t forget the mass terrorist attack in heavily gun controlled France. You will never get it.
First of all in Syria fire arms are rampant but they are illegal. Next up Mexico one of the highest murder rates in the world, firearms possesion illegal. Next, if you take out just five US cities from the gun murder rate stats, Chiraq, Baltimore, New Orleans, St Louis and Detroit, the gun murder rate drops to the European average. What does that tell you? I’ll give you some time to figure it out but I doubt you will get it.
Constitutional Basis: Here is a good discussion of the constitutional case: https://alumni.berkeley.edu/california-magazine/just-in/2017-08-28/so-about-well-regulated-militia-part-constitution
“Venezuela is a great warning against gun control”
The U.K., France, Japan, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Austria, Switzerland (yes), Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Holland, Belgium, Spain, Portugal and Ireland are far better examples of the value of gun control than Venezuela. Venezuela is the alternative example to Syria where firearms are rampant.
“Mish what is your definition of an assault rifle? Are you referring to the AR-15 style rifle?”
Word of advice Mish, don’t rise to this type of bait. The gun extremists want the discussion to be about this because this takes you into their fetish area. Focus on responsible gun ownership and free market methods that are within the boundaries of the second amendment that promote responsible gun ownership. If you do (and see the link I posted above written by a Republican precinct committeeman) it forces the extremists into a corner where their only argument is that they need their guns to fight against the U.S. military.
Venezuela is a great warning against gun control: the citizens are starving, their hospitals falling apart, and when they voted against the status quo Maduro govt, Maduro went to court and got all of his newly elected opponents invalidated as candidates. And the unarmed Venezuelans can do nothing against Maduro’s loyal, scumbag military.
The fact is more people are killed with knives than AR15’s. And the facts are more people are murdered by their own govts, BY FAR, than by criminals.
Also don’t let facts get in the way of formulating your opinion. Knives and hammers kill over 2k people per year while less than 300 people are murdered by rifles. WTF give you the balls to say comparing them is stupid. Really? Go have a drink
I never compared semi-automatics to knives nor ownership of weapons like AR15 to automatics weapons. Yet, a large % of the people who are arguing for change don’t understand. In some cases a few accessories change a rifle to what people perceive as an “assault rifle”. To truly ban assault rifles you then have to ban all rifles and that is never going to happen. https://www.nssf.org/msr/
RiGHT coming from your end. Can you please explain yourself again why would banning AR 15s be so great??? Other than your opinion which in this instance is utterly uninformed. It would be better to not make a comment and show your ignorance,
I see no problem with outlawing AK-47s and anything similar. Comparing semi-automatic assault rifles to knives is beyond stupid, but stupidity is expected in these discussions.
Mish said “What about the word “handgun” do you fail to understand? Note that it was 5-4 on “handguns”. Somehow the right to grenades and assault rifles is “extreme:” Please get a grip on reality”
Are you a little cranky today?
Did I ever say anything about hand grenades or assault rifles? No, you did. This is not about extremes, this is about wearing down the core argument of the 2nd Amendment. Most don’t even know that AR15 doesn’t stand for “Assault Rifle”.
Step back for a moment. I’m not saying there won’t be some tweaking but it will be limited in success.
EXCACTLY
Mish what is your definition of an assault rifle? Are you referring to the AR-15 style rifle? If so look at the statistics on it and how many people are murdered per year by all rifles of which the AR 15 is included. Less than 300. Why is owning an AR 15 extreme you have no rational basis for making that statement other than your opinion.If you still think its extreme to own one than would you be in favor of banning knives and hammers? Over 2000 people murdered per year by both. Handguns are responsible for the majority of murders by guns do you want to ban these?
This is much ado about nothing. All Congress needs to do is to pass a simple law making it illegal for one human being to murder another. Once murder is illegal, it will stop. Oh wait ….
What about the word “handgun” do you fail to understand? Note that it was 5-4 on “handguns”. Somehow the right to grenades and assault rifles is “extreme:” Please get a grip on reality.
Mish said “The Supreme court will uphold the “right” to own assault rifles? Hand Grenades? Nuclear bombs? I suggest No, No, and No”.
That’s sort of taking an extreme position don’t you think?
“In its June 26 decision, a 5-4 majority of the Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment confers an individual right to keep and bear arms, and that the D.C. provisions banning handguns and requiring firearms in the home disassembled or locked violate this right.”
This is what I’m stating. There is only so much that can be done.
Seriously you are resorting to comparing a legal gun to illegal weapons? That is a typical leftist poorly thought ouy response
The Supreme court will uphold the “right” to own assault rifles? Hand Grenades? Nuclear bombs? I suggest No, No, and No
The gun problem is one that will never be completely fixed without a lot of government expense. There are criminal justice systems that fall woefully short of enforcing laws for felons. When there are more felons in the country, then there has to be more jails to keep the convicted out of the communities. Until then plea bargains are resulting in government-sponsored criminals in our communities.
@hmk Have to agree with you there. It is our culture, our socioeconomic modern paradigm that’s the problem. The only members of the left that have the balls to address the culture are the anarchists whom I love, but the rest of the left is just obsessed with trying to legislate every single problem away with more aggressive bureaucracy.
And that’s actually been the tone of the current gun-control laws and further proposed laws: get bureaucrats to take the role priests and “assess” (judge) gun owners. Nothing sounds more Orwellian and dehumanizing than that. This is why I can’t stand the left. They make everything worse in the name of making everything better.
Oh yes the statement “our military can handle ISIS” is right on. Why is the war in Afghanistan taking so long? Have you heard the phrase Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires? As far as your free market approach its a gun banners way of pricing people out of ownership. Is that what your shooting for only the “enlightened elite” will have the portection they need.?? Why do we have so many mentally ill people in the US? Part of it is our culture is falling apart no family religious values or work ethic. Part of it may be poor access to mental health its not a covered benefit unless you are on medicaid (welfare) insurance. Part of it may be that we have the highest use of drugs for mental illness, part may be our illegal drug use. Why does Switzerland with one of the lowest murder rates in the world have a military assault weapon issued by their govt in every home. They must serve in the military and afterwards be prepared to help defend the country if needed. Bottom line its our culture but no one has the balls to tell people to get their shit together. Obama never once mentioned that 75% of black families have no fathers. I
Please do elaborate on what we should compromise on that would not put law abiding citizens at a disadvantage to criminals and a tyrannical govt? These kids epitomize what’s wrong with our country. They think govt cares about them, and they expect govt to save them – even though it was govt that spectacular failed them and their fellow students. If they understood history, they would be marching to limit govt intrusion into their lives so they could protect themselves and prevent govt from making their schools sitting-duck zones. There are NO laws that will protect students from criminals and crazies. The only people that care less about laws are bureaucrats.
What is wrong with an “echo chamber” of like-minded people that understand the uniqueness and value of our Constitution? What’s the alternative when the establishment and their mouthpieces in the MSM will never permit a real debate on anything? The echo chambers of propaganda exist in the MSM, that want to subvert the foundations that made the USA the envy of the world. After 60+ years of Collectivist propaganda, not so much anymore. The rule of law is dead, and we are on the verge of a govt debt bomb that will have so much collateral damage that even some Patriots will be begging govt to save them. Fortunately, as with the Revolutionary War, it takes less than 10% of the people to care more about freedom than themselves. Do me a favor. When you hear the echo of “give me liberty or give me death”, just get out of the way.
Of course no one seems to make a point that the shooter all but told the police himself that he was going to do this. The FBI, local police and the supposed protection officer at the school all failed miserably. Of course they can do no wrong why its the govt they are here to help. Instead its much better to make symbolic yet useless laws like weapons ban that will have no impact. How about having the govt do their job like protecting the schools better etc. Yes keeping weapons out of the hand of mentally unstable people is common sense why didn’t it work in this instance.
Okay Justice Scalia, thankfully illeterates like you don’t sit on the supreme court. Move to Russia so the govt over there can protect you
The baby boomers are the worst generation in history and I say this as a member of that generation. The sooner we are all dead the better off the world will be! The most selfish self-centered worthless scum the country has ever produced. I HATE OLD PEOPLE!
“The second amendment was meant to keep the federal government from overthrowing individual state governments by disarming their militias.”
Wrong. That is an interpretation that is well outside the bounds of the wording. You are making it up. It was to ensure that there was no standing army – but since we now have the most expensive military in the world, a rigid interpretation of the second amendment would call for the dissolution of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines and Coast Guard – is that what you are advocating?
The second amendment was meant to keep the federal government from overthrowing individual state governments by disarming their militias. States were assumed to have the right to regulate guns, and most did. That fell apart after the civil war. Southern whites began disarming freed black southerners. So among other issues, the Feds passed the 14th amendment which forced state governments to accept federal constitutional rights. The State of Florida just passed very limited and reasonable regulations which allow someone to be Baker Acted has is showing extremely violent tendencies, and have the police remove his weapons while he is being evaluated. If he is evaluated as being a danger, a judge can have his weapons permanently removed and his name added to the list of folks you can’t sell a gun to.
“People like you often think that criminals don’t get access to guns if they are banned. I tell you, you are wrong.”
No I don’t. But if I had a choice of somebody staring at me without and gun and with a gun, I’ll take without – which would you take?
I’m fine with responsible gun ownership, but not irresponsible gun ownership. Which do you want?
So Mish’s point was that he could argue either side (which people have done ad nauseum above, I guess proving Mish’s equivocality point!). So discussing his actual point that there has been a shift politically:
I don’t think I agree. I havent witnessed any shift in viewpoint amongst people I know. In the comments above not one person has stated that they have recanted their viewpoint and still hold “all-or-nothing” views. So I think a lot of noise but no shift in the political climate.
The electorate remains as polarized as ever.