If you are in the hospital emergency room, and that’s where most people without insurance go, then you get treated. Otherwise, many hospitals are turning to pay in advance for services.
Please Pay in Advance
The Wall Street Journal reports Hospitals Are Refusing to Do Surgeries Unless You Pay in Full First
For years, hospitals and surgery centers waited to perform procedures before sending bills to patients. That often left them chasing after patients for payment, repeatedly sending invoices and enlisting debt collectors.
Now, more hospitals and surgery centers are demanding patients pay in advance.
Advance billing helps the facilities avoid hounding patients to settle up. Yet it is distressing patients who must come up with thousands of dollars while struggling with serious conditions.
Those who can’t come up with the sums have been forced to put off procedures. Some who paid up discovered later they were overcharged, then had to fight for refunds.
Among the procedures that hospitals and surgery centers are seeking prepayments for are knee replacements, CT scans and births.
Federal law requires hospitals to take care of people in an emergency. Hospitals say they don’t turn away patients who need medical care urgently for lack of prepayment.
They are seeking advance payment for nonemergencies, they say, because chasing unpaid bills is challenging and costly. Roughly half the debt hospitals wrote off last year was owed by patients with insurance, the Kodiak analysis found.
Finding money for treatment is a challenge for many American households. Half of adults say they can’t afford to spend more than $500 on medical care should they be suddenly sick or injured, a survey by health policy nonprofit KFF found. They would need to borrow.
No Skin in the Game
It’s interesting to note that hospitals want payment in advance for births. Most illegals just walk in and never pay for anything.
Nonpayment is one of the reasons costs are soaring for everyone who does pay.
Medicare for all is not the answer. When consumers have no skin in the game, no one is interested in reducing costs.
Pets Treated Better Than Humans
Much money is wasted on keeping people alive who have less than a year to live.
We treat our pets in pain better than we treat humans. I just went through that myself. Our 15-year-old dog lost his eyesight due to ruptured eyes and was running into walls. He was in pain and could not see.
The total bill for that crying experience was only $232.
Right to Die
If what happened to our dog happened to me, I would want to go. Someone else might not.
But for those who cannot pay for services and don’t have insurance, I suggest they should be given painkillers only, or select a right to die.
We need to prioritize. And the only way for that to happen is for people to have some skin in the game.
Something Wrong Somewhere
Something is wrong somewhere when half of adults do not have $500 dollars to any emergency (auto repairs, medical, and home repairs).
Inflation is certainly a problem. Thank Biden, the Fed, and Congress (both parties) for that.
Ridiculous regulations are part of the cost. Medical malpractice insurance and lawsuits are a problem.
The minute someone tries to discuss these things, the Right starts screaming about “death squads”.
With millions of aging boomers, this problem is only going to get worse.
Biden’s New Carbon Capture Mandates Will Cause Blackouts, Increases Prices
On the regulation front, Biden’s New Carbon Capture Mandates Will Cause Blackouts, Increases Prices
Everything this president does sponsors inflation. The list includes energy policy, regulations, tariffs, student debt cancellation, free money to Israel and Ukraine, and a push for unions.
What kicked off inflation is three rounds of massive fiscal stimulus, the last of which was totally unwarranted.
Both parties support warmongering and meddling that backfires.
Fed Sponsored Housing Bubble
The Fed’s Big Problem Is There Are Two Economies But Only One Interest Rate
Housing is a huge problem of the Fed’s making.
But don’t expect anyone to anything about anything because the system is broken at every level (Congress, White House, and the Fed).
If the taxpayers were not paying for the illegals healthcare through our taxes we would not be in this position. Americans first! No American should be denied service.
Um that paragraph near the end sounds like you are a proponent for euthanasia which is disgusting
I am a proponent for letting people make their own choice.
I am also a proponent of there are consequences to actions like having no insurance, and the ridiculousness of spending vast amounts of money on hopeless situations, and I want all of that to apply to me.
The Doctor Kevorkian Health Plan!
The big picture view of how this society is governed is not a three pronged government. Don’t forget the Fourth Estate. That is of course the news media.
Their job (assigned to them in the 2nd Amendment) is to blow the whistle on government lies and corruption and educate the public about the FACTS. Yet they do the most damage when they “report” information that is designed to split America in half and set the two sides against each other and make sure their liberal friends always win.
Why do so few people realize this?
It’s so obvious!
It’s all theatre.
“Something Wrong Somewhere”
Something wrong everywhere. The whole system is so corrupted, from the public health agencies and AMA on down.
I think the big D party just needs to adopt the permanent tagline of, “If you think you have seen real inflation, just give us another 4 years and we will show you pansies what real inflation is.”
Mish, I work in emergency rooms. It used to be anyone could walk in and be treated. Now if an uninsured person comes in, unless it is a true emergency, we do what is called a MSE or medical screening exam. If the doctor determines after a physical exam that the patient does not have an emergent condition, i.e. one likely to result in sudden death, the emergency room can demand payment up front as well. If the patient cannot afford that payment, and most cannot, the patient is told to go to urgent care or to a doctor’s office, which I assume most do not because that has to be paid for up front as well.
If someone has a heart attack or septic shock or other emergent condition, then they will be admitted and taxpayers do eat that considerable expense.
But the days of freebie health care in the emergency rooms are greatly diminished now compared to what they were.
Thanks!
Appears to be different in Denver
“We need to prioritize. And the only way for that to happen is for people to have some skin in the game” – Mish
No Mish, this isn’t a game. You are talking about the difference between life and death and nothing could be more serious. No one should be forced to die simply because they cannot pay for treatment. Heath care is a human right.
There is no right to health care or shelter.
There is a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
You’ve made my point. People dying because they cannot pay for treatment have a right to life.
I think the term ‘right to life’ in our founding documents refers to constraining the government from taking a citizen’s life without cause. ( as was a common practice in earlier times). The term ‘right to life’ does not mean that the government (taxpayers) has any responsibility to maintain or improve a person’s life. That is an ‘entitlement’ invented recently. Basically, the government should not end my life without cause but is not required to provide me with food, clothing, shelter or health care unless there is some quid pro quo. I worked very hard during my career to afford healthcare after retirement. I do not see why I should be required to provide for ne’er-do-wells through my taxes.
Yes, it is considerably more fun to be a grasshopper than one of the ants.
I disagree.
When the entire system has been distorted and commodified by Wall Street and Fascism (a melding of corporation and government ) only those who embrace the fascism and participate in it are entitled to care.
Useful idiots like chumps in the military and government employees receive health care in transfer payments from the productive class. While an average productive class entrepreneur who funds the parasites health care can’t afford it due to excess taxation payroll taxes etc.
All that increasingly remains are giant fascist oligopolies.
Doctors used to make house calls and charge amounts anyone could afford.
@steve_k — doctors and nurses did not spend 4 years in college plus (at least) 4 more in medical school so they could be your slave. They are not required (nor should they be) to serve a bunch of ungrateful, whiny little marxists.
The rest of society owes you nothing. An argument could be made that we should pay treat veterans, because they fought for our country (in some cases, they also fought to protect politicians bribery schemes). But society defaulted on promises to veterans long ago.
Go get a real job — social justice is just whining, its not a college major and sure as h#ll is not a vocation.
I detect an angry veterans smug on his $3900 a month tax free disability scam.
Veterans are the worst among us. They become homeless because that’s what they would have been without having had a bed a 3 meals from the military.
What’s a real job!
Working for an giant corporation?
Go start a business ya vile a hole and then get back to me. I can see through your words a entitled chump who needs people to tell him what to do.
People that start businesses almost never sound like you.
I’ve always said that I’m willing to pay what biggy insurance pays
I’ll pre-pay it – just give me the same 30% retail price
Announced just now: “US Citizens, on their death Beds, will be offered Pfizer mRna Vaccines but only if paid in advance.”
On average half a persons lifetime medical costs occur in the last 30 days of life. Exclude those who are OK until they suddenly just drop dead and that proportion of expense goes well past half.
As for any requirement that hospitals must treat emergency patients then perhaps the solution is for the government to reimburse hospitals for all such unpaid treatments. Sure that puts the taxpayers footing the bill but medicare already is a huge drain so let the blowing up of the Ponzi be brought foreword.
Get Medicare. No such worries!
Oops, have to be age 65 first. So sorry.
If a person lives that long, it is deserving – – in this world, it is kind of a Punishment for a Long life, because Sickness arriving just about the time you retire is inhuman.
Better learn to take care of your health then.
“Sickness arriving just about the time you retire is inhuman.”
c’est la vie.
If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself.
Everybody has been shopping this statistic for years. So what is to be done about it?
Forced deductions into an emergency savings account by the government?
Forced labor camps, esp for people who have lame ideas.
With inflation it is now $750 that they don’t have.
South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem might have done the job for free!
Being a hospital employee, but not dealing with patient care, I see and hear a lot:
#1, if a hospital says they’re losing money, they need to fire their accountants and hire new ones. There are too many ways to make and save money for that situation to be tolerated. Why do you think you pay $20 for aspirin?
#2, not getting paid by patients with insurance is 75% of the time the hospital’s fault. Any mistake made on the insurance claim (wrong date, wrong code, etc.) results in the claim being rejected, with usually a 10 day window to correct the claim. If the hospital doesn’t get to it in time, no payment.
#3, not being focused on getting paid in the ER. We had an employee whose main job was getting patient payments and/or copays while in the ER. Her reputation was of being a “bitch”, because she would hound, cajole, or sweet talk payments from patients, whatever they could come up with right then – cash, credit card, full or partial payment, whatever. Out of 9 employees in her department, she invariably brought in more than anyone else, even working night shift in a medium-sized ER.
#4 – costly rules and requirements. There are many things our department could purchase cheaply at a big box store or on-line, but government or hospital rules or requirements force us to purchase from a certain vendor at higher cost.
I don’t have much sympathy for hospitals whining about money.
I had ‘worker’ year ago go to lunch and when he came back(had QT hotdog/soda)
and then couldn’t breath(he’s 30)
had me call EMT – the whole family is member of 10% sickie club( ie they use 50% of costs of healthcare)
we KNOW THEY WON’T PAY
yet we have to let them spend $5,000 on fake visit – emt decided he ate DORITO wrong and got partially lodged in throat causing irritation
I don’t see what Mish is complaining about.
Prices for elective procedures, which is a cash business, have been going down steadily for decades.
Doctors used to make house calls. Payment was due right away in cash (or chickens or pigs or horses or whatever arrangement a farmer made).
FDR implemented wage controls in the great depression, and like all central planning it was a disaster. Employer provided health insurance was one way employers worked around the socialist wage control system. F#ck FDR.
As central planners got more and more involved, and con artists / politicians competed to promise the most “free” stuff, FDR’s dumb policy became a nightmare.
Meanwhile, other central planners (FDA, USDA, Dept Education, etc) made sure everyone got fat and stupid… aka unhealthy.
And it all came to a head when the marxist obama promised “free” health care but no medical school deans wanted to work for free so Obamacare promised the equivalent of subsidized public housing in medical form.
Drop your pants, bend over and spread your butt cheeks America!!!
You voted for ObamaCare. You are going to get it and its gonna hurt
The rich were already paying cash for concierge medicine. The smart are eating healthy, getting exercise and sleep, and mocking the ObamaCare morons who thought they were getting something for nothing
Does that Halo you wear put pressure on your neck muscles? Askin’ for a friend.
I never claimed to have a halo. I said I hate lazy useless marxists. I hate them freeloading off hard working Americans and law abiding immigrants.
And I hate people like you who failed reading comprehension, or more likely spent so much time learning to twist and distort what other people actually said that you are no longer capable of hearing what others say.
F#ck you @Don_Jones. If that triggers you (and I hope it does), please know that I don’t really care. If anything, you being triggered makes me happy. Go shove your microaggression BS up your backside along side your ObamaCare
I’ve built 7 companies . I’ve never had a job that I did not make. I have 12 soon 15 patents.
As a serial entrepreneur I find you offensive.
Idiots like you fail to realize nothing is more (((commie))) than both political parties.
Trump commies are nationalists in the Mao model – they idolize and worship the “great leader” and like all commies they love flags. Red white blue , black and black with blue. They have them everywhere. They are all incredibly uniform and all spout the same exact party lines – just like good commies are supposed to. Anyone who is not their brand of commie is ironically called a commie. They love the government while their GREAT LEADER is in office. They’re nationalists at heart and worship the government when their do no wrong leader is in power.
Substitute camo clothes for Mao jackets and you got a camo commie.
What do the Trump commies do in their spare time they berate the non believers. Your a fascist communist.
I don’t need to explain the Biden commies since you already know what they are.
So now the illegals will wait till they’re about to drop the baby and report to the emergency room.. don’t get me wrong I can’t stand the fact our hospitals are closing because of non-payment from foreign Invaders.. they always adapt first one that loses a baby because she waited till she was in labor to hit the emergency room will file a multi-million dollar lawsuit and close another hospital.. we Americans are being treated like the suckers we should be..
Unless it’s major trauma steer clear of all hospitals.
How about we force healthcare providers to post their prices in plain English before we start euthanizing ppl.
People can still sign DNRs and let nature take it’s course with pain management.
The last thing we need is more suicide
What’s wrong with suicide? Unlike abortion… at least the individual gets to make the decision.
If you don’t want to live (and look around you at this f789ing clown show of tiktok facebook snapchat and raging inflation — it’s increasingly an unliveable situation…) then it’s not up to me to force you to not kill yourself.
Suicide is a Plan B… a viable Plan B.
No, it’s a cheapening of life.
And make no mistake the .gov and the insurance companies will be pushing suicide to save a buck.
That’s one of many things wrong with codifying suicide.
Define cheapening life.
If someone is desperately unhappy with their life … for example… they cannot afford to pay rent so they are sharing with multiple people… have almost no discretionary spending ability so they cannot get out and ‘enjoy life’…. are under huge stress if they get a repair bill… or health issue…
Isn’t that a life that is basically not worth living? All the person does is go to work … make barely enough money to live… and go back to work the next day
It’s their life… who are you to insist that they not end it?
At the end of the day why do you give a f789? Why do you care? MYOB!
You are like these clowns who wear Covid masks — if they believe they can stop a virus (hahaha… a virus passes right through the masks) then why do they insist that I wear a mask????
Best thing ever… you could go to a restaurant only with a mask … but when you sat down you could take off the mask!!! hahaha… dumb as f789
Why do people insist on telling other people what to do????
I think that you should start with: “It is my goal to get the US Government to eliminate the exit America Tax.”
So, kill yourself if you cant go out cubbing? Yikes.
Life is great.
And my health has never been better since I completely eliminated all sugar and all processed foods… and continue to exercise daily.
Why would I kill myself?
That does not mean I seek to deny the obese KFC Big Gulp addicted … diabetes and heart disease riddled … half dead … living in misery unable to control base urges to stuff more garbage down their maws…. the right to end their lives.
If I was in that position I would most definitely want the right to self terminate. Who wants to live with a giant fat gut sticking insulin shots into one’s body every day. F789 that.
Better off dead
You funny guy – your right to decide my future is superior to my right to decide mine? You can’t be serious. You demand power over me but deny me having power over you? Presumably, God will be entered into the argument and that will solve it.
It’s not about you or me: it’s about our healthcare system and Govt and whether or not we want to live in a system where the HC system and govt think our lives are not worth saving whenever they feel like it.
Your thinking that you “can decide” is not realistic. The system will quickly devolve into one where the elderly are told to either die by suicide or just die due to lack of healthcare b/c they have been deemed to be not worth the money
Unless of course if you’re very wealthy. Then you can live.
The problem with legalising euthanasia is that it will go from an elective option for those nearing death to something that will be coerced on sick, frail and emotional patients that are either too poor to pay the hospital/nursing home bills or are too well off that some greedy relative is hungry for the inheritance. Not hard to pressure someone in chronic pain to sign a euthanasia consent form by making their life a misery. Restrict their pain meds, don’t change their incontinence pads regularly, let them develop bed sores, berate them, mock them, give them spicy food, restrict water supply so they are always thirsty. This sort of mistreatment is not uncommon already in some nursing homes and legalising euthanasia will just make it more common.
Now if someone wants to suicide on their own volition then that is something that is between them and God.
What’s wrong with eliminating the half dead by encouraging them to take Super Fent?
Consider the amount of resources that are wasted on keeping these people alive who made poor decisions cramming their maws with KFC and Big Gulps. More for everyone else if we can work out an acceptable way to cull these folks
I believe that back in the day when elderly Inuit realized they were a burden to society…they wandered off into a snowstorm and went to sleep forever.
This is no different.
We need to stop keeping people who should be dead … who are suffering … by feeding them pills.
BUT, BUT, your answer is to feed them the FINAL pill.
Just sayin’. 🙂
I agree.
We should also provide immediate euthanasia to those who endorse deficit spending by Government.
Nothing wrong with Government building up savings.
Plus Government would have to pay tax on excess retained “earnings.”
Fast food was cheap and most poor people took advantage of it. It has more killing ingredients in it than we realize. No food is clean anymore if you buy non-GMO or organic most cannot afford it in this economy.. our food is killing us. The list of ingredients is so long and most of them are banned by other countries. Corn flakes had 4 ingedients in the 60’s now the list is 2 paragraphs long. This is to keep is fat and sick. Helps big pharma!
Imagine what the global population would look like if most people lived to 100… then imagine what happens to pension plans… then imagine what happens to all the services that would be required for all these ‘useless eaters’
The Men Who Run the World know that this would be a disaster… so they did some things about it.
They put sugar in everything … they vaccinated… ensuring most of the herd did not live anywhere near 100
Oh but there is the amazing US medical system!!! Not so amazing when you consider it’s less effective than many other less amazing medical systems… it’s not made to allow you to live to 100..
If they wanted you to live to 100 the Ministry of Truth would tell force people to be healthy – using the same strategies they used to convince people to inject poison during Covid.
3 books for anyone interested
link to penguinrandomhouse.com
link to drmalcolmkendrick.org
link to dissolvingillusions.com
Ya’ll have been played… but for a good cause…
We do NOT want big numbers living to 100… that would collapse the global economy.
Confusion and conflation based on beliefs and hearsay.
Instead of an emotional/religious, non fact-based reaction, think it through. Just as you want laws against “suicide”, there are laws against mis-treatment. Just think it through.
Unfortunately, the vast majority are unable to think deeply about anything and just want to take the easy way out – let someone else decide.
The west continues its decline.
Please, you start first, then I will think decisively to not do it.
The system is working as designed. Healthcare/sickcare is a complete scam in this country that the uber-wealthy use to defraud the rubes out of their life savings.
I strongly suspect that vaccines link to dissolvingillusions.com and the entire system is programmed to ensure that not too many people live to 100.
Consider what would happen if most people followed the Fast Eddy Program of no processed foods, sugar, alcohol and exercised….
We’d have so many elderly useless feeders contributing nothing … and this would blow up the global economy…. think of the pension plans alone
You can see boomer “I got mine” vileness coming out in the comments. Assholes destroyed the world, gave us a Stasi police state, bifurcated the economy, ruined health care and supported murdering a millions + Muslims. Of course they want to see their fellow country men ruthlessly exploited by the medical system or die painful deaths.
The most vile generation in world history.
Cretins
Disgusting
Enjoy your medical errors.
I left out the well traveled Gen Z health care meme.
It’s called the “Pillow Plan For Boomers”
They’re going to smother you with pillows in the nursing homes,
No need. The Covid Vaccines are doing a very good job of killing and maiming
You would have advanced rapidly in the Nazi SS.
Hahaha!!! I am a bit too young to be a boomer… but consider that rore recent generations gave us Facebook and Tesla….
Yeah us Boomers who paid their student loans.. worked hard and didn’t have children at 16 and then complain they need a living wage to support their family a Jack In The Box.. we Boomers who built a great country as evidenced by the fact of foreign Invaders relentlessly are kicking down our door to get in here from all over the world.. you and your woke generation the new brown shirt Nazis are the real problem destroying the country.. now go back to your encampment celebrating the murderous butchers Hamas and threatening the Jewish kids.. you’re disgusting
Fast Eddy just came, too fast.
Your an idiot.
All boomers are complete idiots
You forgot one GREAT thing about Boomers and NOW I CANNOT RECALL what THAT WAS.
I agree with you that we Boomers fucked up but remember one thing: YOU cannot help being in YOUR GENERATION of whiners.
Just sayin.’
BUCK IT UP, BRO.
I earned mine. With a launch from my parents. You had your chance and let it slip away. No sympathy for self-inflicted wounds.
USA has the double the civilized worlds average per capita health care costs. BTW we rank dead last in all health categories. Lets see now, double the civilized, industraialize world average per capta costs and worst health. I think something is amiss. There are other countries with single payer systems that work however, those examples are not cited. Some people don’t like facts. As crappy as the Canadian system is most of them would not switch to the US system if given the opportunity. I live in MI and do meet a fair number of Canadians and this is one the things I like to inquire them about. Our heathcare system like the mic is calling the shots with our corrupt politicians. Its time this topic be openly debated with actual FACTS and voted on.
I know an American who was assigned to a company office in Toronto. His young child was diagnosed with some heart ailment. The doctors in Canada tried treating him but after a few months told him to go back to the states for better care.
A friend of mine was in the Navy. Married a girl in the UK. Wife got sick with cancer and after some time of getting treatment with no improvement the doctors in the UK told him to take his wife to America. They moved back here and a yr or so later she was in remission.
The fact is many Canadians every yr seek healthcare outside of Canada due to long wait times and better care.
Why come to the USA? Go to India or South Korea
This is success. They don’t want people living to 100.. for good reasons
On this point, you are correct, Fast Man. Getting old is not for the weak or unprepared.
But healthcare workers get paid high salaries. Executives and doctors make a lot of money. The medical industry greases Congress palms with substantial campaign donations to keep things just the way they are now.
Share this with your doctor [roflol]
The link leads to a story about AI??
Thanks – Link Fixed
FYI The link leads to the wrong WSJ story
Thanks – Link Fixed
In other words, ObamaCare is ending up exactly how anyone with a brain expected it to end up.
There is no free lunch. The Marxist Obama was full of crap the whole time, just as every other “free shit” politician throughout history.
England’s NHS collapsed the British economy once already, and a combination of unrepeatable events stepped in to delay the inevitable — but once again England and its idiotic socialist medical system is once again in failure. Ask the Davos Dummies who lost the Brexit vote at least in part because England needed money to “save” NHS (really delay the inevitable).
Canada’s health care system operates by having wealthy Canadians engage in health care tourism – to the USA, Latin America, Thailand, and India. Canada’s poor get to wait in endless lines and pay exorbitant taxes. They voted for it, they deserve it.
F#ck all the Marxists / socialists all over the world, under all their various guises and fraudulent labels.
And to the poor people in the USA who wanted ObamaCare? … Bend over folks, you are gonna get it.
Canada’s poor probably don’t pay any income tax or much in the way of consumption taxes.
Everyone in Canada, rich and poor, pays **very** high taxes.
In addition, Canadians get substandard health care. The wealthy do medical tourism (USA, Thailand, India, Latin America). The poor wait in line and get rationed public housing care.
England pays around the same tax rates (more here, less there, but similar)… England also has two healthcare systems: the wealthy have concierge doctors and everyone else gets NHS public housing.
I have never been to a hospital that didn’t get my insurance info prior to elective surgery.
It is one thing to have a market system where patients have ‘skin in the game’. It is a different thing to have a racket with prices seen nowhere else in the World and where a normal individual faces the dilemma to die or go bankrupt. I am tired of libertarians blaming regulations and illegals for this, when it is the industry lobby that is the biggest problem.
Provider prices will come down or they’ll go out of business.
My dentist demands payment up front. He is all paid up from us but our insurance company has not paid us their share as of today. The dental work began in February and still no checks. Our phone calls are answered with excuses about computer problems.
File a complaint with the insurance commissioner in your state. It’s custom to pay within 30 days of receipt of claim unless additional information and/or documentation is required. Also file a complaint with the attorney general in you state.
About 5 years ago, I had one on four fixed dentures installed. Think “Clear Choice.” Had to pay the whole freight up front, $59K. They did a great job.
The insurance industry is likely on the verge of insolvency
After some other comments I was interested in how countries compare in % of GDP that goes to healthcare. Based on this: link to statista.com it seems that USA spends 16.6% of GDP on Healthcare. That’s the most in the list by far: number 2 is Germany at 12.7%. Most Northern European countries (Sweden, Netherlands, Denmark etc.) are between 9.5 and 11.2%. Is care much worse there? I assume not, but it could be of course. But even if it is let’s consider that these countries have universal coverage, unlike the USA. I know their models don’t fit ideological preferences in the USA, but the costs at least are a lot lower. Why the USA insists on not doing something similar, covering everyone and saving 30%-50% of costs I do not understand.
My dad is on Medicare and was able to get the most advanced heart procedure without doing full open heart surgery. The cost was way lower than open heart and the recovery was way quicker. The insurance company was happy and asked if he could give a referral for their other patients with similar heart problems (adult congenital heart defect with afib)
How did this happen? We asked for a second opinion from an Adult heart center that specializes in this condition. They said the initial diagnosis by the heart hospital was incorrect and that open heart surgery is no longer the best option as quality of life is reduced and recovery may not fully occur. It turns out the heart hospital wasn’t specialized in this specific heart defect when it happens to adults but they were treating all cases like this with open heart surgery. My dads original cardiologist has since started referring his adult heart defect patients to the same place my dad went for the correct procedure. My dad was the 300th person in the US to get this type of procedure. Patient outcomes are way better and quality of life is restored as if he were 60 again he is 84. Medicare needs to stay on top of the latest technologies in order to lower cost and improve outcomes.
Would you care to say what the condition was? When someone close to me was diagnosed with a defective valve and needed a bypass, I dove into the deep end of the pool and was satisfied that open heart surgery was justified. I am curious about what your father needed.
Also, if he was only the 300th to get it done with a different technique, it sounds like it was experimental at the time. Nothing whatsoever against experimental techniques, but it suggests to me that the original recommendation of open heart surgery wasn’t reckless or negligent.
Run this search ‘heart valve replacement laparoscopic?’
Medicare does not pay for experimental procedures. I think what he means is that he might have been told that he was the 300th person AFTER FDA approval.
The cost of health care is 17.3% of GDP and rising. It really isn’t Heath Care but is Managed Death Care. As stated MOST of the money is spent keeping someone alive in their last year. I saw the Chemical Therapy and Radiation bills of an 88 year old friend that approached Three Quarters of a Million Dollars. She was miserable and has many side affects. They should have sent her on a Caribbean Cruise in lieu of treatment.
Every Pandemic that is made, every Vaccine launched, every hypodermic needle fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
This world of Medicine is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one cancer treatment is this: a modern brick home. It is two luxury motor homes, each serving retirees for years to come.. It is two fine, fully equipped cabin cruiser boats. It is some fifty Caribbean Cruises for a Family of 4. We pay for a single knee replacement with an Electric Truck . We pay for a single emergency room visit with a years supply of nutritious delicious food for the same family of 4 . . . This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening treatment, it is humanity hanging from an IV Tree.
The good part of living in France is that the cost of health care is very moderate and the cost of catastrophic illnesses are taken care of 100%.
But people in France are generally healthier by the food supply isn’t polluted with toxic chemicals.
The food is rather good I must say and the wine is cheap.
*inexpensive, not cheap
Don’t want readers to think you’re sipping from the vineyards of Messrs. Ernest and Julio Gallo!
The doctor who wrote this book was motivated by the fact that the French have a high fat diet … yet low incidence of heart disease…
I cannot recommend this highly enough — it might even have the effect of putting people off of processed foods…
link to amazon.com
But you have to speak French!
Real estate crash dead ahead in the south.
link to finance.yahoo.com
This is where properties got the most overvalued relative to income. But people believed the south was cheaper and more affordable. Both couldn’t have been true.
If more people exercised and ate right, then they would be healthier. No one wants to do that so the vast majority of people are unhealthy. America needs to stop eating.
Not just a quantity, but also a quality issue. Added sugar to sweeten everything and a large portion of the population knows no satiety because they consume foodstuffs masquerading as food, which leads to eating larger quantities to ‘feel’ full.
Another outstanding book link to amazon.com
Check the labels … almost all processed food contains sugar… sugar is the devil
Come on! That means less time for wings and pro football.
Mish wrote “Medicare for all is not the answer. When consumers have no skin in the game, no one is interested in reducing costs.”
This isn’t quite true. Experience in several national health systems is that 1. Costs explode, much like our own Medicare and Medicaid since 1965. 2. Governments respond to that explosion with “global budgets”. 3. Providers of healthcare then respond in several ways,
With government they may decide that some ailments simply won’t be treated. In The Netherlands there are all sorts of treatments that you will not receive if you are in your 80s. On their own, wait queues from one general provider to a specialist grow, reaching months in length. Sometimes the patient “gets the message” that care won’t be provided at all. Then, in Canada recently, the government may suggest that the patient receive MAID as the preferred treatment = “Medical Assistance in Dying”.
But, hey! Treatment is free to the patient!
“This isn’t quite true. Experience in several national health systems is that 1. Costs explode, much like our own Medicare and Medicaid since 1965.”
Costs explode because no one cares about costs – no skin in the game
I had a repair done to a car last year that was covered by insurance… I suggested the guy jack up the cost and give me a break down the road for something not covered… he said that was not possible because the insurers know what the repairs should cost and if we ramp the numbers they will push back.
That does not appear to happen with medical insurers…. any idea why they don’t act to control costs?
Had a corporate lawyer friend… he tried to start a business reviewing the costs of legal work for companies… cuz he knows how law firms cheat on bills… the business failed… problem is … law firms didn’t want to do work for clients who had this guy looking over their shoulders at the bills.
My brother inherited a dog from his son’s divorce and the next year had to give $5,000 to the vet for an operation on the dog’s eyes. Two years later and it is totally blind but since the dog is very lovable they won’t put it down.
Nothing wrong with a blind dog. Still lovable
This is hard to read. I just watched my 95 year old mother pass recently.
I agree that health care in the US is at best dehumanizing.
How is it dehumanizing ?
Don’t they make enough money by falsely reporting deaths as from the Chinese Communist virus and by castrating young boys?
it’s cutting edge stuff this taking a child’s forearm skin and fashioning a penis on a young girl. Mengele would be proud!!!
If you like your knee, you can keep your knee.
Otherwise Rocko will come over and take your knee cap if you can’t pay 🙂
I’ve updated the Hippocratic oath.
I swear by my bank account, my brokerage account, my business account, my investment portfolio, and by all the profiters and profiteers, making them my witnesses, that I will carry out, according to my ability and judgment, this oath and this indenture.
To hold my teacher in this art equal to my own parents; to make him partner in my livelihood; when he is in need of money to DEMAND PAYMENT UPFRONT from him; to consider his family as my extra debtors, and to teach them profits are more important, if they want to learn it, there will be extra fees and indenture; to impart precept, oral instruction, and all other instruction to my own sons, the sons of my teacher, and to indentured pupils who have taken the Healer’s oath, but to nobody else.
I will use those dietary regimens which will benefit my patients according to my greatest ability and judgment AND PROFITS, and I will do no harm (IF PAID APPROPRIATELY) or injustice to them (UNLESS I’M UNPAID).[6] Neither will I administer a poison to anybody when asked to do so, nor will I suggest such a course. Similarly I will not give to a woman a pessary to cause abortion WITHOUT PROPER COMPENSATION. But I will keep pure and holy both my life and my art and my profits. I will not use the knife, not even, verily, on sufferers from stone, but I will give place to such as are craftsmen therein.
Into whatsoever houses I enter, I will enter to PROFIT from the sick, and I will abstain from all intentional wrong-doing and harm (UNLESS I’M NOT PAID), especially from abusing the bodies of man or woman, bond or free. And whatsoever I shall see or hear in the course of my profession, as well as outside my profession in my intercourse with men, if it be what should not be published abroad, I will never divulge, holding such things to be holy secrets WITH PROPER PAYMENT.
Now if I carry out this oath, and break it not, may I gain for ever reputation among all men for my life and for my art; but if I break it and forswear myself, may the opposite befall me.[5] – Translation by W.H.S. Jones.
If you need the money we can buy your knee and sell it to a company that specializes in knee transplants. We also buy arms and legs for those who have large debts that need to be paid off at tax time.
Long overdue is knowing exactly what the cost of care will be. I have dental insurance and they know exactly what the procedure will cost both the insurer and insured. You want payment in advance i need the cost info. Complications arise altering costs but i should have as much info as possible.
Open a puppy abortion clinic next to a human abortion clinic and you’ll learn some things.
If it’s pay up front, why isn’t it just pay the co-pay up front rather than for the entire procedure bill since medial centers know in advanced whether the procedure is covered or not per insurance plan? Or is it just for co-pay?
I’ll say Co-pay; neighborhood dermatologists and oral surgeons require this. They do an insurance verification first. Then you all the info to decide wether a treatment is worth it or not.
Basic reading: Milton Friedman’s 4 types of money.
Pay in advance is long overdue. In addition, there needs to be clear pricing information and reviews or ratings by previous customers so that people can properly comparison shop.
Almost any (exceptions being complexities of the Siamese twins fed up with each other variety) non-emergency treatment can be had, of equal quality, for a fraction, in Asia. Or even, increasingly, in Europe. Even fully private clinics in Switzerland, are cheaper than in the US. Latin America as well, but quality may be more variable there.
Just-as-good, and much cheaper, treatment; for Americans who can’t afford; as well as Europeans and Canadians on indefinite the-problem-goes-away-when-they-die waiting lists; is a major growth industry.
Of course, non of that matters for those whose $500 budget don’t cover airfare to Mexico, even…
But hey: The US is a third world country now. Such places never really had much in the way of functioning anything; health care included.
I believe Insurance companies should offer policies where non-emergency surgery is does overseas. India would be a great choice in general. The insurance would have to pick up airfare.
This makes a lot of sense to me
health tourism is how Canada postponed, but did not avoid, the collapse of Canada’s “free” health scam.
Marxism / socialism is still going to fail. You are just asking for an additional subsidy (this time from india)
Sooner or later, all marxists/socialists run out of other people’s money
The medical association would lobby and this would not be allowed.
There were some media stories on this being done some years back for expensive procedure slike hi surgery, which are much cheaper overseas.
I imagine there are a lot of logistics involved in something like this, which is why more companies likely haven’t embraced this.
“I believe Insurance companies should offer policies where non-emergency surgery is does overseas.”
Yes!!!!
In TJ. Close enough to the border to save Trumpo the construction of a few miles of border wall, since a 40 story wall of hospitals would be a tall order to climb over…
You’d have half the doctors, nurses and techs in Asia, Europe and elsewhere moonlighting there for a few months out of the year in no time. And: Those guys, as in competent people, would be running the show. Not halfwit ambulance chasers, lobbyists, “investors” and other muck.
Of course; better yet: Let the Chinese take two weeks to build fully functional, modern 10,000 bed hospitals right outside every US city, and staff them exactly as they please…
Problem is; like all and everything in the by-and-for-idiots-only totalitarian waste of a dystopia which is the current US: Totalitarian government gets in the way. Since the goal is NEVER to facilitate the provision of health care, nor anything else of value. But rather to forcefully transfer wealth to the dumbest of dumb leeches, who are too incompetent to apply a bandaid; and who hence instead live off of rent, ambulance chasing, “insurance” rackets and other Fed and junta assisted pure theft which wouldn’t survive even the faintest whiff of competition from less incompetent people.
My sister just had her gall bladder removed. She has insurance, but I believe its a high deductible. The hospital wanted the money up front to book the surgery.
“…Something is wrong somewhere when half of adults do not have $500 dollars to any emergency (auto repairs, medical, and home repairs)…”
As for the above quote, I’ve come to the conclusion most people are horrible money managers who are obessed with keeping up with the Jones. Most of thier purchases are emotionally based.
I know a few couples who make $300k a year or more and are barely getting by. It boggles my mind. The wife and I don’t make anything even remotely close to that kinda money, and we have a robust emergency fund and a healthy retirement account. We live quite frugally though.
Hospitals and Doctors started this immediately after Obamacare started. So many have high deductibles. They get the surgery/tests and then never pay the bill. In IL The hospital and Dr. both wanted 1/2 up front before they would schedule the surgery/test, etc.
But they have $2000 for the latest mobile phone model…. go figure
Most people are stupid … like well over 99%
In the 19th century, most everyone did not have a spare $500 (value=today’s number) for an emergency. People managed, often with a 19th century version of ‘GoFundMe’. Hospitals were much less common. There was much less medical care available then than there is now. Pres. Garfield was treated at the White House. Pres. Cleveland got jaw surgery on a yacht. Pres. McKinley was treated in a private home. Smart individuals often refused treatment of gunshot wounds.
Question: Are we suffering from some instances of ‘affluenza’?
What irritates me the most is when a previously healthy 35 yr old dies from a stroke or heart attack… cuz they injected the Toxic Cocktail (aka Covid vaccine)… and the family inevitably creates a funding page … and asks everyone to pay for the funeral (with the extra cash going to buy new iphones for the survivors).
Gimme a break… if you wanna commit suicide… don’t beg…. it’s unbecoming
Witch doctors were a lot cheaper then.
I’ve had to pay in advance for most surgeries for myself and my kids. I asked about this when paying and they said they have payment plans but that a lot of people just couldn’t pay and skipped the surgery. Sad to see that. The ER is filled with people that are not paying. A decent portion of these would be best served at a clinic but there is no incentive to not use the most expensive care method. With my insurance, I have an incentive to avoid the ER and use my Doctor or a walk in urgent care facility.
ER’s are ONLY required to treat emergencies.
If trade wars with China continue, there will be plenty of people (mostly seniors) that will expire from ongoing drug shortages. There are plenty of stories like this and this is just one.
link to globeecho.com
The conspiracy theorists in me thinks perhaps trade wars are intended because both Trump and Biden want them. Increase drug shortages and watch the death rates climb. No need for political bantering, death squad talk or other nonsense, just let people die waiting for their medicine and blame it on China. This would certainly fix the medicare and social security problem.
I read an article recently on Canada using euthanasia to solve their elderly care crisis, I’ll see if I can find it.
Drug Shortages, that sounds Scary!! What did humans do 100 years ago before all these wonderful Drugs? Die? that’s even scarier!!
3rd leading cause of death is prescribed drugs… I am thinking … ditch the processed foods and exercise… and avoid drugs…
Nah … most people want to continue shoving KFC down the maw and taking magic cure pills.
there is a shortage of cancer treatment drugs… because there is a deluge of cancers since 2021…. what happened in 2021…. hmmm…. warp speed…. usually indicates dangerous
Can anyone point me to the science that solved this problem? link to wired.com
I want ALL medical except for true Emergencies in the ER to be paid in advance. No free pain meds in ER. Dr. appointments, physical therapy, etc. is paid before you receive services. This will help our economy in many ways. It will bring more people into the workforce . People will start budgeting better and reduce the number of children being born to parents that can’t afford to take care of them. No FREE healthcare (i. e. No Medicaid or free healthcare for disabled) Most ER visits require follow up healthcare (i.e. prescriptions, Dr. appointments, surgery, additional testing, therapy, etc)
“People will start budgeting better…”
I doubt that will happen. If pre-pay becomes the standard, those with credit cards will simply charge it then default on their credit card payments somewhere down the line. After that I’m sure predatory firms will show up with “surgery now, pay later” plans which has been driving the economy the past year.
Alternative markets and financing will always develop and the people that get screwed merely shifts from one group to another.
People will start budgeting better when they learn 1st hand the amount of pain/consequences for themselves and/or a family member for not getting medical care. People that charge procedures and don’t pay the bills will pay later (i.e. they won’t be able to get loans for mortgages or cars and landlords won’t want to rent to them.) They also won’t be able to get credit cards for a long time if they file bankruptcy. That’s what I call the Pay Now or Pay Later Plan.
If they cannot budget (as in prioritize health over the new iphone)… then fine… I am all for socialized Fentanyl…. it’s an effective Plan B for such people
I had to go to the ER a couple years ago after stepping on and driving a sharp (and rusty) bolt a couple inches into my foot.
ER was packed at the time and curtains separated patients. I overheard the person in the next bed over explain to the Dr that they had just had dental surgery and they were out of pain meds (I’m sure you see where this going). They claimed to be in extreme pain. In my mind, I took the story as a drug fishing expedition. The ER Dr. wisely refused to give this patient a Rx for pain killers, and instead instructed them to call thier dental surgeon for a refill. Needless to say the patient was very angry upon hearing this. In my naiveté, it hadn’t occured to me that people would use the ER simply to obtain pain meds.
I think that happens a lot. There are also ER doctors that want to give pain meds to get them to leave ER. My niece went to ER with extreme pain in her back. Dr wanted to give her pain meds and release her. She said no pain meds. Find out what is wrong with me. She had a really bad infection and needed antibiotics.
In first episode, Dr. House gave such a patient candy from a machine. Never knew the difference.
I hope that such junkies drop dead for making pain treatment for non junkies hard to get. Decades ago I developed an extreme headache. Went to ER, instead of getting pain relief I had to endure agony. Tests were run, a spinal tap to check if I had meningitis and finally after about 10 hours I was given an injection. Didn’t know at the time what it was but could feel it move up my arm and into my body. All pain gone in under 20 minutes. Found out that they gave me morphine. So I had to endure so much pain before I was given such a miracle drug because stinking junkies ruin the system of giving pain meds.
And I wish the public hospitals would have a system of sharing records so that they would know who are those like the junkies that go from hospital to hospital looking for a hit and those like me that rarely go to hospital and any signs of track marks are from being a regular blood donor at the local Red Cross.
Tough love. Sounds good!!!
I am a fan of Ayn Rand
Our medical system is run by Big pharma and Big Business. Totally corrupt and based on providing the poorest care at the highest possible costs. Totally broken. Look at the stats and then compare us with the results of the other 35 or so developed nations, most of which have universal health care. Crony-Capitalism for the rich is not good. Even the health care plans of liberals like Obama still cater to the crony-Capitalists, rather than the middle classes and consumer. Illegals get free health care-at our expense. Something is backwards here. Find a way to create an honest and workable universal healthcare program and I’ll support it. It can be done. Just get the big government Marxists, big business special interests out of the picture, and a such a workable system can be created. Nothing else will work.
Our “Democracy” is broken. 90% of our Congress are idiot stooges and lapdogs for the power elites. Some republic-what a joke. people are so dumbed down and corrupted, there is no way they can elect an uncompromised, honest representative government. I fear our democracy has run it’s course. de Tocqueville was correct. The Empire is in its final stages. Get ready for war courtesy of the desperate elites.