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How Long is the Lag Between Fed Rate Hikes and Real World Activity?

How Long the Lag?

Waller’s View

How Quickly Will Rate Increases Slow Economy?

The Wall Street Journal reports Fed’s Interest-Rate Strategy in 2023 Hinges on How Quickly Rate Increases Slow Economy

Federal Reserve officials’ deliberations this week over how much more to raise interest rates will hinge on how much they expect the economy to slow this year.

Key to those discussions at their two-day policy meeting will be estimating how much their previous rate increases will cool growth and inflation over time, or what Nobel Laureate Milton Friedman called the “long and variable” lags of monetary policy.

“There will be a lot of thinking about ‘Are the effects we’re getting about on the track that we expected? Are they coming sooner, or are they coming bigger?’” said William English, a former senior Fed economist who is a professor at the Yale School of Management.

Competing Views 

  1. “We’re in a different world from the last several business cycles,” said Donald Kohn, a former Fed vice chairman. “The last several cycles haven’t had pandemics and land wars in Europe in them.”
  2. “I think we’re seeing a lot of the impact for monetary policy coming through in the next quarter,” Mr. Waller said.
  3. Economists at Goldman Sachs see shorter lags. They say markets’ pessimism is overdone, and they are among those who think the economy will prove more resilient than anticipated, which could call for a longer period of higher rates. 

I not sure what Donald Kohn’s view says or means. 

Waller’s view makes the most sense to me. 

Regarding point 3, the Goldman Sachs view, where precisely is the pessimism? It’s certainly not in the stock market.

And shorter lags mean a longer period of higher rates?  OK. then what precisely is the stock market counting on. 

The Right Question

Are we really asking the right question?

It’s not really a matter of how quickly rate increases will slow the economy, but rather how quickly rate increases will slow inflation.

I don’t know the answer, nor does anyone else. 

But the higher rate hikes go and the longer they stay there, the worse the prospects are for the stock market. 

Earlier today I commented “On top of it all, how the Fed can untangle this inflationary mess is a mystery. The negative impacts of QE cannot be easily undone.”  

The same applies to a myriad of free money handouts, eviction moratoriums, food stamp increases, etc. If that line of thinking is accurate, stocks are extremely overvalued. 

For discussion, please see Why Do We Have Reduced Participation in a Labor Shortage Environment?

This post originated on MishTalk.Com.

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35 Comments
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Oldest Most Voted
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
Option #3 : a 1-3 years Lazer tilting up, correction and 4-6 years to reach the Lazer at higher levels, before the next plunge.
A Lazer : multi osc in a long narrow channel tilting up or down, packing a lot of energy. When the beam is hot price have to duck or jump.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
3 years ago
re: “New York Fed President John
Williams said this month that the roughly $2 trillion parked daily by money
market funds and others in the Fed’s overnight reverse repo facility is the
“key” to the outlook. As markets adjust to rising interest rates,
cash will start to flow from this facility into the private sector and
effectively replenish reserves levels, giving the Fed the additional runway
needed to keep cutting its holdings, he said.”
But remember the FED said that O/N RRPs didn’t reduce reserves or the money supply. And that’s contrary to the way the TGA works.
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
Reply to  Salmo Trutta
As the markets “adjust” to higher interest rates ==> during markets correction cash will flow from this facility…
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
I think we’re close to a tipping point. Once we have a lot of car repo’s or home foreclosures, things will go downhill quickly. The decline is always gradual and then the bottom falls out.
Christoball
Christoball
3 years ago
Even if the inflation rate goes to zero, prices are still inflated. It will take 4.5 years of zero inflation rates to get us to what would have been the 2% per year inflation goal promoted by the FED with December 2020 as the base month.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  Christoball
correct. the printing and zero rates following the panic of 2008 for more than a decade was followed up by 25 years of money printing during the plague black swan shut down the entire world. to expect this to be worked off in just the past year is silly. i have a bridge in my home town of brooklyn to see ya. i walk by the FED RES of NY a few times per week. i always tip my hat to a great and wonderful scam. better than trite film, “the sting” of bygone era of past mid century.
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
If inflation stay and the average inflation will be 5%/y in the next decade, DXY should rise to 100 x 1.05^10 = 165.
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
Salmo,
The Dow trend is medium strong (38%-50%). The Dow might reach 45K. The Fed might not like it.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
3 years ago
Reply to  8dots
I guess we have to be prepared for Powell to keep inflation @ 5% for a while. There’s too much outside money suppressing interest rates. I don’t think Powell wants stocks to fall. He has to think about pensioners.
Recessions have always occurred with a drop in inside money. That’s not happening. There’s a small drop in the 1st qtr. that might cause some confusion. But there’s just too much money chasing too few goods.
I think the FED has a problem with O/N RRP volumes. Powell has really screwed up the system.
CRZYHUN
CRZYHUN
3 years ago
Ok lags due to rate hikes. BUT what effect does QT have on the market and bonds. No one is really looking at this.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
3 years ago
Don
Kohn? He’s vacuous: “I know of no model that shows a transmission from bank
reserves to inflation”
e-mail
11/16/06: “Spencer, this is an interesting idea. Since no one in the Fed tracks
reserves…” Dr. Richard Anderson, former V.P., and senior economist, FRB-STL.
The FED’s target (interest rates), is indirect,
varies widely over time, & in magnitude.
We are likely to have a permanent interest rate inversion accompanied by stagflation.
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
Reply to  Salmo Trutta
The Fed might reduce interest rates on RRP and Excess Reserves if the Dow visit 20K.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
3 years ago
Reply to  8dots
You can’t lower the O/N RRP award rate without unleashing inflation. The FED has boxed itself into a corner.
“Essentially, paying interest on reserves allows the Fed to place a floor on the federal funds rate, since depository institutions have little incentive to lend in the overnight interbank federal funds market at rates below the interest rate on excess reserves.”
Now it pays for the floor with O/N RRPs
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
3 years ago
Reply to  Salmo Trutta
“Waller indicates that he is open to conducting QT while also cutting rates.” That’s the 1966 Interest Rate Adjustment Act.
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
Reply to  Salmo Trutta
The Dow : up from 18K up to 38K, retraced 45% of the move from Mar 2020 low, before rising to 35K in Dec. // Option #1 : the Dow can easily exceed Dec high and reach 45K. Option #2 : back to 20K. If 20K we are recession. The Fed will flood the market with liquidity, paying less than $95B/y on RRP alone, this year. There are other options for fun and entertainment.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
3 years ago
Reply to  8dots
More of the Governors are leaning towards my views. “Williams and Logan also believe the Fed can keep unloading bonds even when officials cut interest rates at some future date”
As I said: “The correct response to
stagflation is the 1966 Interest Rate Adjustment Act. “while the aggregate of
time and demand deposits continued to increase after July, the proportion of
time to demand deposits diminished. Whereas time deposits were 105 percent of
demand deposits in July, by the end of the year, the proportion had fallen to
98 percent. These were all desirable developments.”

M1 peaked @137.2 on 1/1/1966
and didn’t exceed that # until 9/1/1967. Deposit rates of banks decreased from
a high range of 5 1/2 to a low range of 4 % (albeit not enough). A .75%
interest rate differential was given to the nonbanks.

And during this period, the
unemployment rate and inflation rates fell. And real interest rates rose.”

8dots
8dots
3 years ago
In the next recession investors would like to see 15%/y return on risky assets, plus div, like Warren Buffett. // 15%/y for 10Y the price have to be : 0.85^10 ==> twenty cents/dollar. 15% for 7Y : 0.85^7 = 33 cents/dollar. Are they crooks : NO !
Things for zero rates are gone, along with globalization.
Siliconguy
Siliconguy
3 years ago
Donald Kohn Took a lot of words to say “I don’t know.”
He did helpfully say why he doesn’t know.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
The last three years have certainly been atypical. It also makes the statistics so atypical as to be almost useless in many cases and although it would be nice to see some stability it is doubtful that we will in the next three also so we might as well get used to it and expect and hopefully profit from the massive changes taking place in industry, supply lines and society in general. I also expect that any replies consist of longer sentences than the one just written.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Atypical. Yes.
Big changes. Yes.
Presenting opportunities for those looking to take advantage. Yes.
Will the future be just as volatile? Yes.
Will there be more opportunities to take advantage? Yes.
Can’t change how the world works. Can only look for ways to take advantage. Or be like many here who waste their time complaining endlessly about things.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
And predictability is way down. That is new.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
The US is just one part of the global economy (though a relatively big part).
I see the IMF just raised its forecast for 2023 global GDP from 2.7% to 2.9%.
I suspect the US GDP will lag the rest of the world.
In addition:
The IEA expects global oil demand to rise by 1.9 Mbpd in 2023. OPEC expects global oil demand to rise by 2.25 Mbpd in 2023.
Personally, I was expecting global oil demand to grow by 1 Mbpd, just as it has grown by 1 Mbpd “on average” for the last 30 years.
So many predictions. Only time will tell how it all works out.
xbizo
xbizo
3 years ago
Is it Fed Rates or inflation working it way through the economy? I’d say inflation is the heavier hand on the scale, forcing cutbacks in discretionary goods. The clock on a lot of debt cost increase doesn’t start until the next refi. Then it takes six months of higher payments to feel.
As anecdotal support for rates being basically normal now, a banker friend of mine said that SBA loan closings are going full bore. Those are loans originating in December and closing in January. Higher rates not affecting that borrower type. At least not yet….
Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear
3 years ago
After a 100 years of data, the FED shouldn’t even be asking this question. To do so is admitting the FED never had control over interest rates, inflation, or the economy.
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
Goldman : pessimism isn’t in the stock marker. Jeff Bezus < 2018 low. AMZN Earning report on Fri Feb 3.
AAPL and Googl on Feb 2. Higher rates protect small innovators co from large co like AAPL, MSFT and Googl.
8dots
8dots
3 years ago
Reply to  8dots
When AAPL, MSFT and Googl started rates were 15%.
Matt3
Matt3
3 years ago
Rates really are not high. The 80’s, post the early recession, had higher rates and better growth.
Rates have been too low for too long.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  Matt3
We have way more debt as pct of GDP now.
Carl_R
Carl_R
3 years ago
The consensus used to be that it took about a year for all the effects on Monetary policy to work through the economy.
jlabson
jlabson
3 years ago
Please check out the article: Where $5 Trillion in Pandemic Stimulus Money Went – The New York Times (nytimes.com)
It really does cast a light on the ‘clown world’ monetary stimulus the USA has undergone over the last 2 years.
……this ‘helicopter’ money has massively contributed to feeding the inflation ‘beast’ the Fed started with their no cost to capital over the last decade. Everyone is looking at this the wrong way. Remember….nothing has gotten more expensive …. it’s just that thing in your wallet you call the ‘dollar’ is worth LESS and LESS and LESS every damn minute you’re on this planet.
klausmkl
klausmkl
3 years ago
The rates are still reasonable, inflation has cooled somewhat. However War is inflationary and it will resume. More layoffs will come. Profit must be maintained in our crony capitalist system. The Peons will suffer, it has always been this way. Our freedom is but an illusion along with our so called democracy and relatively free market.
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
3 years ago
Reply to  klausmkl
And only this way because the slaves demand it.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  HippyDippy
the middle brows and the debt serfs DO DEMAND to be ruled. if you wanted to see real mayhem in the world, have the ruling class tell the middle brows, they are free to do whatever they want. YIKES. that would be end times. it’s anthropology 101. human primates are set up to be in a social construct, ruled by silver backs. the rest of it is eyewash. form of governments have basically no difference. amerikan imperial world wide plundering, to swiss decentralized local control, to chinese mandarins, to even the code of pashtunwalis, anarchy, but with elder tribunals……………….THIS AIN’T A RECESSION. IT IS A POST OFF THE CHART MONEY PRINTING BONANAZA AFTER A WORLD WIDE LOCK DOWN AND WAR ON WUHAN FLU.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
Civilization is a game, and the role of government is to design and referee that game well enough that nobody gets mad enough to flip the table.
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
3 years ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
Humans are programmable animals. Also, demand to be programmed!

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