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How the Hell Can the Fed Find Neutral When It Doesn’t Know What Inflation Is?

Debate Over Neutral

Clueless About Inflation

Chicago Fed president Charlie Evans says that “at best 2.5% is neutral” but neutral isn’t good enough for him. 

Evans wants a restrictive rate of 3.75% to 4.0%.Evans tosses around some core PCE numbers as well.  

The Fed and nearly all economic analysts are clueless about inflation. The entire group looks at the CPI, PCE, and other distorted measures as “inflation”. 

The results speak loudly. The Fed blew a DotCom bubble, a housing bubble, and an everything bubble each time hoping to make up for an alleged lack of inflation. 

 Case Shiller Home Prices 

I have not updated the lead chart for two months but it shows the problem clearly.

All the economic jackasses are so focused on “consumer inflation” they totally ignore assets bubbles especially housing. 

Asset bubbles in general are difficult to measure, but home prices are easy. 

The Fed and most economists ignore home prices calling them a capital good. 

OK, so what? Is the goal to measure inflation or is it to measure “consumer inflation”?

In the prelude to the DotCom bubble, the fed ignored asset prices. It’s difficult to put an inflation number on speculation, but it has been rampant for over two decades. 

Housing is different. It can easily be measured. But for two consecutive bubbles the Fed at best did not pay attention. 

The Right Way to Neutral

Neutral isn’t meaningless, and yes it constantly moves. That’s why the Fed is constantly chasing its tail.

Nick Timiraos, chief economics correspondent, for the Wall Street Journal asked Evans “What’s the right way to estimate a nominal neutral rate in an environment of high inflation?”

He asked the wrong person and more importantly the wrong question.

The right question is “How do we get to neutral?

Since neutral is constantly moving, only the free market has a chance of finding it. 

Instead, we have a bunch of economic group-think wizards who two years ago were begging for more inflation and now that they have it are equally clueless regarding what to do about it.

Ivory Tower Jackasses

The Fed is a proven failure that does not understand bubbles, neutral, or inflation. 

None of the Fed presidents has had a real job ever. They live in their ivory towers, set policy, and blow bubbles.

Their curious definition of stable is a perpetual two percent rise in inflation that they do not even know how to measure.

SF Fed President Mary Daly: “I Don’t Feel the Pain of Inflation Anymore.”

Yesterday, San Francisco Fed President Mary Daly set the tone for ivory tower arrogance. 

When asked about inflation, Daly responded “I don’t feel the pain of inflation anymore. I see prices rising but I have enough… I sometimes balk at the price of things, but I don’t find myself in a space where I have to make tradeoffs because I have enough, and many Americans have enough.”

She accidentally stated how all the Fed presidents likely feel. 

When you live in a ivory tower and make $427,000 a year, no, you don’t feel the pain of inflation. Unfortunately, most people do. 

For discussion, please see SF Fed President Mary Daly: “I Don’t Feel the Pain of Inflation Anymore.”

This post originated at MishTalk.Com.

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62 Comments
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Oldest Most Voted
dewyman
dewyman
4 years ago
Mike I couldn’t agree more. We have a bunch of baffoons, political peacocks, beaucrats setting policy for political reasons that weakens the power of the natural forces of supply and demand and destroys the means of the middle class to improve the livelihood of all including the rich. They are fools causing a suicide of our nation.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
4 years ago
Mary thinks Bezos is rich, that the Zuck and Gates and Ellison are rich, that the kids in the Hamptons are rich, that the boys in San Jose and Palo Alto are rich.
Mary thinks she simply has a good work-a-day job like most good Americans.
amalagoli
amalagoli
4 years ago
The mere idea that there should be a ‘neutral’ rate of inflation is the relic of the much outdated neoliberal economic doctrine. Most economists have been brainwashed into this doctrine because of its dominant role in academia. However, the idea of ‘equilibrium’ economics is devoid of any substantiated empirical validation. Not only that, but the theory itself has huge gaps. THe reality is that economic doctrines are adopted as a smokescreen for ideological agendas. For the neoliberal ideology, the agenda is to suppress employees to concentrate wealth in few hands.
It is not a coincidence that Powell associates the dangers of inflation to the dangers of Wages Inflation (but CEO pay inflation is not a concern).
Milton monetarist doctrine had a similar agenda: by blaming inflation on ‘too much money’, he really meant ‘too much money in the hands of employees’. See much of the recent discussion on how the Covid relief program should be to blame for the current inflation.
Clearly, the Fed does not understand inflation because it does not want to. They would have to admit that the mal-investment allowed during decades of cheap money has caused massive wealth inequality while cutting on much needed investments in infrastructure and domestic manufacturing. Had we invested more money in both, perhaps many supply chain problems would not exist today.
Rising rates in this environment not only would do nothing to cure the causes of inflation (e.g. grow more food), but it would also cause more damage by making essential investments more expensive.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
4 years ago
Reply to  amalagoli
Exactly. The problem with giving money to the people is that they will spend it, not hoard it.
Felix_Mish
Felix_Mish
4 years ago
Is anyone else stunned by “his answer” in that Nick Timiraos tweet?
Is it a Markov-model machine run amuck?
Is it a bad machine transcription of someone lost in an imaginary world while sipping one too many beers?
What?
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
4 years ago
In 2007, GDP was 2.0%, unemployment was 5.0%, inflation was 2.8% and the FFR was 4.75% in September of that year.
Today, we have had two quarters of negative growth, a housing market that’s peaked & headed south, inflation that’s more than 3x greater and an FFR that’s almost half of what it was back in 2007, none of which makes any sense.
Had the Fed stopped QE 15 months ago and had the FFR up to where it’s at now 12 months ago with the willingness to go at least to 4.5%, we’d have housing that was at least 30% less expensive. The 30YFRM would have stayed near or above 6% over the last year, and inflation would be below 4%. Unemployment MIGHT have risen to 4.5% and stabilized.
Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear
4 years ago
The Federal Reserve exists for the profit/survival of member banks. The mandates of employment and price stability are the con to get the average person to believe the central bank should exist.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
4 years ago
Excuse me for being alive still, but do you really think that inflation is the REAL issue or problem within today’s utterly dangerous geopolitical context ? Nations have survived with 100% or even 1000% inflation, so what s the big deal ? What really is an issue, a primordial one even, is that your wrinkled Pelusi at the end of her pathetic statistical life stage goes to visit a nation, or region rather, that should be none of her, or US’ fn business ! She did the same in corrupt Ukraine, embracing the world’s most corrupt criminal clown who has been sacrificing big time his own people to the undeniable superiority of russian cannons, outrageously enriching himself in the process of course . So tell me for once and for all WHAT the fck is the US on about, how do your mfrs for deep state leaders think this will end ? I am not mrna vaxxed , maybe thats why I can stilll think, people have now become totally deluded that s obvious, even persons with a certain educational social economic level don t seem to know what I am talking about, completely brainwashed as they are by msm, their mrna shots or merely simple stupidity and/or smug apathy ….
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
The problem is our country is run by people in their 70s and 80s who think it’s still 1995. We can dictate whatever we want and everyone has to follow or else. And everyone will be on our side. China didn’t shoot her plane down, but they will retaliate. They won’t totally lose face over this. They don’t work that way. I suspect they’ll think of something where our reaction to what they do will end up being far worse than what they directly did.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
There have multiple male only delegations of American congressmen that have gone to Taiwan even thid year. China making a stink of Pelosi going there reeks of something their citizens shouldn’t put up with. Even Trump supporter Tommy Tuberville., who went on a delegation earlier this year, thought it was great Pelosi went. China has gone backwards since Xi became their autocrat and China is increasingly looking marginalized the way Putin is. China is mad America is going to use $50B to effectively help American companies take back control of the semiconductor industry.
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
4 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
How dare you. In Ukraine, she shook hands with the T-shirt wearing, unshaven new emperor of Europe, the best clown show on the continent.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
We are nearing the end of the Age of Pisces, and the beginning of the Age of Aquarius–that is the great cycle of axial rotation is starting again. We ridicule astrology without realizing there is an underlying science. The process of the ‘Precession of the Equinoxes’ will be painful (see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession#Polar_shift_and_equinoxes_shift).
The last changing of the ‘Age’ was the fall of the Roman Empire, and the beginning of Judaeo-Christianity (Pisces)–it was not a good time for tourism.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
4 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Really ? Well, who knows , I give you the benefit of doubt anyway, because it is you 🙂
Scooot
Scooot
4 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
The Dawning of the Age of Aquarius was 1969, The 5th Dimension said so. 🙂
Zardoz
Zardoz
4 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
Comrade, you may get potato cheap in Belgium, but in Russia potato not cheap no more. Comrade Putin has public number to hit and show glory of Russia to stupid americanskis, so is ok. We can eat half potato instead. Is still potato, no?
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
4 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
I could be happy that Nancy went to Taiwan.
If she stays there.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
Mish’s second chart is particularly worrying for me.
Note the decline from 2006-2012 in housing prices, bringing CS Nat. Avg. price back
to the long-term (inflation) trend–a decline from 290 +/- to 215 +/-. That was a 25% drop–an ‘oh sh!t’ moment. Remember jingle mail, bank foreclosure sales….
Since 2012, the CS National Avg.
House price has increased, likely with a 2021-2022 peak. Presuming the same/similar factors are at work, it will eventually drop from 472 to about
300+/- (plus some future inflation)?
In my view, we are looking at a 36% drop–that’s an OH SH!T moment!!!
Thinking about 36%… Are there sustainable and non-sustainable reasons why housing prices might increase at a rate significantly greater than ‘inflation’? Other than ‘bubble’?
1: an (increasing) emotional need to own one’s abode?
2: an increase in demand faster than our ability to build houses
3: a reduction of supply (whether total, or replacement/new additions to supply)
4: shortage of land, building materials, etc
5: Fed f&*king with money supply/interest rates to make housing a speculative asset.
NOTE how OER, CPI and RPR have tracked together since 1988.
Billy
Billy
4 years ago
This is the worst recession ever.
I can’t find a table at my favorite restaurant and they don’t take reservations.
It will take 8 months for me to get my car that I ordered.
Starbucks won’t take mobile orders at my local store because they have too much business and can’t find workers.
I’m just going to keep my money in my money market account until everything improves.
-Just kidding
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
4 years ago
Reply to  Billy
….a 5% paying money account would be fn great , I wouldn t touch stocks, nor junk bonds with a 6 foot pole , I wouldn t!
MisterE
MisterE
4 years ago
Reply to  Billy
Cute that’s the goal right. Force responsible savers to risk their hard-earned assets. For the good of the banks and hedge funds.
Dean_70
Dean_70
4 years ago
When you’re making money from asset bubbles that last thing you want to draw attention to is the fact assets are indeed in a bubble. They are not ignoring the bubbles, they are profiting from their actions and want to squeeze the last juice from every last bubble. Diverting attention extends the life of these bubbles.
They should be talking about how to divert our economy from the recession turning into a depression but we know that will never happen.
Elbarreled
Elbarreled
4 years ago
I’m sure the lyrics could be adjusted for the title of the piece…more than a “lost weekend” for the Fed!
hmk
hmk
4 years ago
Besides housing inflation not being accurately accounted for they are omitting true medical(health insurance premiums) and college inflation Both have risen above the reported average for decades.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
Reply to  hmk
Note that the big increases in both health and college costs came during the Obama administration (both were sold as ways to bring down these costs).
Christoball
Christoball
4 years ago
Oil has dropped below the levels prior to the start of “The War of European and United States Kibitzing in Ukraine” Oil is still too high.
killben
killben
4 years ago
Like Powell said about inflation – “We now understand better how little we understand about inflation”, in sometime he will say “We now understand better how little we understand about neutral rates”
Again I ask is it a crime to line up the Fed since Greenspan days (except Thomas Hoenig) and pick them off one by one. I guess it would be the greatest service one can provide to the US.
kansasdude
kansasdude
4 years ago
Reply to  killben
Not in my book
Zardoz
Zardoz
4 years ago

Easy! Claim inflation was stolen by the globalist quislings to finance new Pedo Pizza Kitchen franchises. Repeat until every basement dwelling incel is parroting it and running up credit card debt to buy XXXL sized tacticool gear for the coming revolution

Naphtali
Naphtali
4 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
LOL
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
4 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Exkusa me? my google translater do notta now watta you talkink abouta, you drunk agenna ?
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Quisling; now there’s a word (name) you don’t hear very often–makes me think of the babies of some species of birds, not Norwegian traitors. Pedo Pizza Kitchen–I assume that’s a pizzagate joke, but what a lot of franchises–are there that many pedos? Incel is involuntary celibate–basically your average porn watcher. If basement dwelling, he/she/it is living with mom/dad, and from ‘XXXL’ seriously overweight. Given that tactical gear is involved, I think Zardoz is referring to ‘white supremacist.’
But what about Zardoz… it is a 1974 movie with the classic line: “The gun is good! The penis is evil!”
Of course, Gorsuch might have a stake in it too
Zardoz
Zardoz
4 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
This is the work of the Super Secret Brotherhood of Ignorami… it isn’t supposed to make sense. Stupid works in mysterious ways.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
4 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Q: Do you like quisling?
A: I don’t know. I’ve never quisseled.
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
The FED is always late. They always raise too much, followed by cutting too much. Over and over.
Zardoz
Zardoz
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn

If that trend hold, seems like a guy could make some money off it.

Denver1
Denver1
4 years ago
Just now, the writer figured out after ten years, in Wall Street and Brussels supported 96% by a fawning media, that totalitarian political narratives drive society and economy… the republics be damned.
Mish
Mish
4 years ago
Reply to  Denver1
Just Now?
If you are referring to me, you have not read a damn thing I have written, ever.
I have been discussing this repeatedly since 2003.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
4 years ago
Reply to  Mish
Gave you a like Mish , yet sometimes I d wish you had a more geopolitical view on things, especially these days with the US of A’s provoking attitude all over the globe…..Thanks anyway, for your blog and for allowing my occasional ‘ranting’ ….
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
Reply to  Denver1
The question for me is not about ‘totalitarian political narratives.’ Government has become self-serving, with its own socio-economic agenda. What does the most damage to society and economy? It begins with a ‘public servant’ thinking he/she/it knows what is best for you?
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
“She accidentally stated how all the Fed presidents likely feel.”
At the FED, that is probably a Daly occurrence. You can Kashkari that one to the Central Bank.
Just remember to add in the Davos crowd.
Greff
Greff
4 years ago
The Fed’s mission is to target stable money and employment. It has been (since Greenspan) translated to aim for stable to higher S&P and stable to higher housing prices. Mish should have been voted in as Fed President and given the ability to dissolve this Jackson Hole infested group think that add nothing to the real economy other than distort real price signal. What to do with the $8 trillion elephant looming to grow further at the next hick-up in asset de-bubbling.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Reply to  Greff
“The Fed’s mission is to target stable money and employment.”
Which has them targeting employment, to regain their definition of stable money.
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
4 years ago
Reply to  Greff
The original mission was stable prices (whatever that means) and employment. The current mission is to save the system, whatever it takes.
I am neutral on how to dissolve it; Mish or let the people deal with them.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
“Ivory Tower Jackasses”
If only, experts really were experts.
Zardoz
Zardoz
4 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Not to fear, you have your pick of millions of internet experts. You can easily find one that’ll tell you what you want to hear.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
What i want to hear, is the truth. Unfortunately, i can’t get that from Fauci.
Zardoz
Zardoz
4 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
You should get that Fauchi trauma loomed at. It isn’t getting better.
Thetenyear
Thetenyear
4 years ago
The same jackasses who “don’t feel the pain” are now in charge of fixing this mess…
…yet Wall Street hangs on every word they utter.
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
4 years ago
Reply to  Thetenyear
Price discovery depends on how much these jackasses print.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
4 years ago
Reply to  Thetenyear
They have to. The Fed is the 800lb Gorilla and you don’t make money by fighting the Fed.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
4 years ago
Interest is the price of credit. The price of money is the reciprocal of the price level. The money stock can never be properly managed by any attempt to control the cost of credit.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
Reply to  Salmo Trutta
Call me simple, but frankly, I do not understand what appear to be semantics. When is credit not money advanced/loaned? If money is loaned/borrowed, it is therefore at risk, with an additional premium for going without use? Given that money therefore has an opportunity cost, why then, isn’t interest the price of money?
What exactly is the reciprocal of the price level relative to the price of money?
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
4 years ago
Reply to  Salmo Trutta
Unfortunately, thanks to the FRB, the real price of credit has become priceless.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
4 years ago
“The neutral rate is the theoretical federal funds rate at which the stance of Federal Reserve monetary policy is neither accommodative nor restrictive.” Dallas Fed
Link: Further Evidence on Greenspan’s Conundrum | St. Louis Fed (stlouisfed.org)
“During his February 2005 congressional testimony, Alan Greenspan identified what he termed a conundrum. Despite the fact that the Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC) had increased the federal funds rate 150 basis points since June 2004, the 10-year Treasury yield remained essentially unchanged.”
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
4 years ago
Reply to  Salmo Trutta
That was before the Fed was buying longer-term MBSs wholesale at mark to imagination prices.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
4 years ago

Take the “Marshmallow Test”: (1) banks create new money
(macro-economic), and incongruously (2) banks loan out the savings that are
placed with them (micro-economics).

F. Scott Fitzgerald: “The test of a first-rate intelligence
is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still
retain the ability to function.”

You have to retain the cognitive dissonance capacity, like
Walter Isaacson described Albert Einstein’s ability: to hold two thoughts in
your mind simultaneously – “to be puzzled when they conflicted, and to marvel
when he could smell an underlying unity”.

The FED’s Ph.Ds. in economics can’t do it.

WarpartySerf
WarpartySerf
4 years ago
If anyone had any doubts about being ruled by predatory rich bankers , Mary Daly just told you to eat cake.
And to wash it down with CIA Kool-Aid. Yum
KyleW
KyleW
4 years ago
I thought this was going to end in a spectacular disaster years ago. Something like a 2nd great depression followed by hyperinflation. That hasn’t happened though. I see the asset bubbles and the higher gas prices, but we just keep going along.
Naphtali
Naphtali
4 years ago
Reply to  KyleW
Until we don’t.
Zardoz
Zardoz
4 years ago
Reply to  Naphtali
The motor is already going “takatakatakatacka” and it’s too late to add oil.
SAKMAN1
SAKMAN1
4 years ago
Reply to  KyleW
The risk is spread across everything. To make everything stable. Lets hope that strategy doesnt fail!
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
Reply to  KyleW
Like orgasm, it comes down to timing. Right now, we’re just pumping away…

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