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Huge Credit Stress Starting in China May Easily Rock the Whole World

Many people asked me to comment on Evergrande. 

First let’s start with a WSJ article then a closer look at a pair of excellent Tweet threads by Michael Pettis and Girolamo Pandolfi.

Collapse of Evergrande – Background 

The WSJ comments China Evergrande’s looming collapse and its ripple effect on the economy will pose a test for the government’s campaign to keep housing affordable for the masses.

Please consider How Beijing’s Debt Clampdown Shook the Foundation of a Real-Estate Colossus

In a risky race against time that ran for two decades, China Evergrande Group turned billions of dollars in borrowed money into the dream of homeownership for millions of Chinese citizens.

It launched project after project in every Chinese province, selling apartments years before they were completed and scratching together enough cash to stay just ahead of massive interest bills.

The party has ended. Years of aggressive borrowing have collided with Beijing’s crackdown on debt, leaving the giant developer on the brink of collapse. Construction of Evergrande’s projects in many cities has stopped. The company has faced a litany of complaints and protests from suppliers, small investors and home buyers who sank their savings into properties the company promised to deliver.

Cash is so short that this summer, the developer said it began paying bills to contractors and suppliers with unfinished apartments instead of actual money.

A paint supplier based in the southeastern province of Fujian said Evergrande recently paid off the equivalent of $34 million in bills with three unfinished properties, which the supplier is trying to sell. 

The looming collapse is a microcosm of China’s overheated housing market, in which prices have been climbing for years. Evergrande’s problems—and their ripple effects on the economy and social stability—are the biggest test of Beijing’s rejuvenated campaign to end debt-fueled speculation and stop home prices from surging while the government tries to lower inequality and keep housing affordable for the masses.

Pettis on Evergrande 

  1. Even as the chairman was proclaiming that a basic principle of his business is that cash is king, he was pulling cash out of the company. According to WSJ: “As it piled on debt, Evergrande paid out billions in dividends to stockholders, with most of that cash going to Mr. Hui as its largest shareholder.
  2. “The payouts helped him become one of China’s richest men. He has received more than 34 billion yuan, the equivalent of $5.3 billion, in dividends since October 2018.”
  3. Someone must have know that this was problematic because, at the same time, Evergrande was doing everything possible to raise cash, not just from banks, but also from employees through wealth management products, from customers through pre-purchases and deposits, and from suppliers and contractors by paying them in commercial paper.
  4. If you have to leverage itself to the hilt — often with very expensive financing — just to keep operating, it isn’t a good idea to pay large dividends unless there is, to put it politely, an information asymmetry.

Pettis Evergrande Tweet Thread

Pettis WSJ Evergrande Tweet Thread

China’s Lehman Moment

The Guardian comments ‘China’s Lehman Brothers Moment’: Evergrande Crisis Rattles Economy.

As angry protesters occupied the headquarters of the troubled property developer in recent weeks, some analysts have described the Evergrande crisis as “China’s Lehman Brothers moment”. Only this time it’s a credit-fuelled housebuilder that suddenly can’t pay its $300bn debts, rather than a blue-chip investment bank that many assumed was too big to fail but was instead thrown to the wolves 13 years ago.

Although there may be some parallels, the more extreme prophecies of doom for China may be no more correct than the assumption that Beijing will simply step in and bail out Evergrande to make sure the fallout from the failure of a property giant does not spread to other areas of the Chinese economy.

“It seems that we may have already started the financial distress process. As the risk of insolvency increases, the behaviour of sales agents, homebuyers, suppliers and other stakeholders changes in ways that further undermine revenues and raise expenses,” said Michael Pettis, a professor of finance at Peking University. “Once that process begins, conditions can quickly spiral downwards unless someone like the government steps in to guarantee payments.”

Dynamics Started a Decade Ago

Pettis on the Lehman Moment

  1. The former head of the CSRC says that, compared to other countries, too much of China’s household wealth is tied up in real estate, and too little in financial assets. With property accounting for 70-80% of Chinese household wealth, he’s right.
  2. But of course with real estate 3-4 times as expensive in China (relative to income) as it is in other major economies, it would be pretty hard for it to be otherwise. Only a sharp and sustained fall in property prices relative to income, or a stock market bubble, can resolve that imbalance.
  3. Japan in the late 1980s had even higher real estate prices and a truly epic stock market bubble, and I think real estate accounted for roughly 65-70% of Japanese savings.

Lehman Moment Tweet Thread

Pettis Lehman Moment Tweet Thread

Pettis on the Problem for Central Bankers

  1. This is an interesting problem for central banking geeks. Many of China Evergrande’s suppliers, who were paid not with cash but with Evergrande commercial paper (CP), are now finding it hard to get paid, and so are worried about their own solvency and liquidity.
  2. “The plight of Wu and many others like him has thrown a spotlight on the extensive use of CP in China’s property sector. Developers favour it as they prefer to not pay upfront and because it doesn’t count as interest-bearing debt.”
  3. This is an obvious problem for Evergrande’s suppliers, who might not be paid after having delivered products, but, as I plan to explain in my central bank seminar tomorrow, it is in fact also a monetary problem. As long as CP from large property developers was widely accepted as an efficient payments mechanism, it was not much different from other forms of money.
  4. As Hyman Minsky liked to point out, while anyone can make money, the hard part is getting others to accept it, and this CP was widely accepted as money.
  5. As such it formed part of China’s money base. Money isn’t a “thing” so much as it is a quality inherent — to very different degrees — in all assets. If suppliers now become reluctant to accept CP issued by property developers, this will have two macroeconomic impacts.
  6. First, obviously, it will reduce the efficiency of business transactions — i.e. raise frictional costs — in the property sector. Second, it will cause a contraction in China’s “real” money supply as an asset that was once highly “money-like” becomes much less so.
  7. To the extent that the PBoC recognizes this, they should expand the domestic money supply to make up for the partial demonetization of Chinese CP.

Central Banker Tweet Thread

Pettis Tweet Thread on Problems for Central Bankers

Double or Triple Books

Girolamo Pandolfi on Evergrande (Charts Below – Emphasis Mine)

  1. Evergrande: why most analysis is dead in water and how best to understand and navigate what’s happening? Both denialists and alarmists are getting it wrong. Let’s start by understanding this: what is happening is the result of a CCP-initiated policy change to curb leverage. 
  2. It started a while back and has seen other defaults, including SOEs. What are the specific policy changes? Most important is the introduction of the 3 red lines a year ago: – L/A < 70% – net leverage < 100% – cash to ST debt > 1
  3. What’s the point of the 3 red lines [italicized]? First and foremost to forestall a systemic crisis that could have brought down the whole financial sector if left unchecked. Real estate amounts to a significant chunk of China GDP with strong linkages upstream and downstream. 
  4. And believe it or not, the sector was levered to the gills. The 3 red lines are hardly draconian, yet all the CCC, a large chunk of the B and a good 1/3 of the BB did not pass them a year ago. Needless to say, it was really not too early. But there is more to it than leverage
  5. One common practice of these construction companies,a game Evergrande excelled at, was to bid land at prices significantly higher than market. It didn’t matter to them, coz the risk got transferred to flat buyers and banks that financed the purchase. 
  6. That model worked well for local governments, banks and households because house prices were going up. So much so over the last 15 years, that a serious affordability crisis emerged in major cities AND HH debt soared way above disposable inc – below HH debt as % GDP [See Chart Below]
  7. So it wasn’t hard to figure out the economic disaster in the making: exponential price rises with explosive HH and Construction leverage. But that’s not all. There is another problem that escapes most China analysts. 
  8. As a result of years of seeking easy growth through construction and leverage, the misallocation of capital was : 1- capital starving more innovative and high tech sectors and 2- creating a headwind for a re-balancing towards a more consumption driven growth. [See Chart Below]
  9. At some point, reigning in lending to the RE sector became vital in order to address the structural issue of capital misallocation. That also explains the curbs on VC investments in RE and most importantly, a curb on all the irregularities that characterized RE.
  10.  The issue of irregularities is at the core of what is happening with Evergrande. More on that later. It’s a long introduction, but it seemed important to explain these issues to understand the long term nature of this problem and why it’s resolution will be tedious. 
  11. So there is a new paradigm dictated by a set of economic realities that CCP could no longer ignore and most importantly, they can relax the rules a bit, but can’t reverse course. They can’t allow consumers to be bust nor a rogue unproductive sector to balloon further
  12. The tail risk emanating from the implementation of this new paradigm is being priced in. It’s not only Evergrande’s credit that is collapsing but the whole HY market. Contagion is AT work. China HY is some 10% away from it’s March 20 low….that’s not benign [See Chart Below]
  13. Within construction many weak operators are seeing their credit collapse: Fantasia, R&F, Suna, China Aoyuan. But that’s not all. The stress is spreading to the banks and financials. Here is Minsheng and Ping An – next level up would be IG starting to show stress. [See Chart Below]
  14. So we established that we are in the phase of pricing the tail risk. All in all pretty China centric for now. How could it create contagion beyond. There are significant losses already for the international holders of China credit and equities. That’s one channel.
  15. Any broader contango on towards the financial sector in China will prompt temporary policy responses like liquidity injection (done this week). But don’t expect a turnaround. They can’t. How will it resolve itself? Well, it started with leverage as the big issue.
  16.  So it will get resolved through asset sales. Idiosyncratic stories will dominate. Stronger balance sheet players will snap land and construction sites. SOEs will snap some assets. State will unwind bad players to help make whole employees and home buyers. 
  17. There is a shady side to many of these construction cies, non more so than Evergrande and their Wealth management products sold mostly to employees. They can’t discharge the guarantees on many of these products and there are rumors of insider selling.
  18. Expect more rot to be exposed, trials, accountability, compensation, etc…Stabilizing the onshore property market will be long, arduous, and risky. Evergrande alone has an order book of 1,7 m residential units. Those are down paid for, yet unfinished. 
  19. Uncertainty and volatility will remain elevated. None of the ill-informed « they will bail them out » scenarii is possible. One thing is certain, there will be a protracted construction slump in activity and price increases. CCP might not allow for house and land price 
  20. There’s obviously a read- cross for all commodities, but mostly steel. Dalian Iron Ore started collapsing in July and never looked back. Unsurprisingly, August showed the biggest drop in steel output on record… [See Chart Below]
  21. And guess who is taking note? The miners are. That’s how contagion works. Aussie miners are the obvious play here: you can see that RIO has established a downtrend and is looking primed for a large move down. $BHP and $FMG looking equally awful. [See Chart Below]
  22. It’s not only a commo issue. China’s consumers are very levered and while output has been restored to pre-COVID levels, consumers can’t keep up. Retail sales plunged recently to 11% below trend and all high frequency measures are showing sluggish spending. Chart Pictet [See Chart Below]
  23. And China is looking at a winter of power shortages that’s gonna challenge it’s output further. It’s looking pretty dire and a last level of pernicious contagion will come from the losses all unsuspecting US moms and pops will incur following years of reckless inflows. 
  24. While some signs of funding stress are emerging like the Onshore USD/CNY 1y swap rates ticking up, it’s still largely benign. China is a financial system where state and banks are 1 and liabilities locally dominated and held. 
  25. If funding stress signs don’t emerge, don’t conclude that there is no contagion. Contagion is playing out already if you know where to look. End

Pandolfi Tweet Thread

Girolamo Pandolfi Evergrande Tweet Thread.

Pandolfi Point #6 – China Household Debt as Percent of GDP

Pandolfi Point #8 – High-Tech Exports

Pandolfi Point #12 – High Yield Bond Market Implosion

Pandolfi Point #13 – Credit Collapse 

Pandolfi Point #20 – Collapse in Price of Iron Ore

Pandolfi Point #21 – Aussie Miner Rio Tinto – RIO.AX

Pandolfi Point #22 – China Retail Sales Collapse

Key Point 

If funding stress signs don’t emerge, don’t conclude that there is no contagion. Contagion is playing out already if you know where to look.”

Not Just Evergrande

The mess in China does not stop with Evergrande. 

Consider this Tweet Thread by Michael Pettis on the debt crisis at Baoneng, China’s Most Famous Corporate Raider – article paywalled.

  1. Another large Chinese conglomerate is facing a debt crisis. Few economists, especially those focusing on the Chinese economy, understand how financial distress behavior is set off and how it systematically forces worse outcomes than expected.
  2. This passage from Caixin demonstrates typical problems: “With 200 billion yuan ($31 billion) of debt, Baoneng faces employees demanding unpaid wages, suppliers clamoring for overdue payments, and creditors seeking loan payments.
  3. The company, which obtained a 12 billion yuan strategic investment from the Guangzhou government, is frantically trying to scrape up cash by selling assets and requesting more government support.”
  4. The point is that as the perceived risk of insolvency at a company like Baoneng begins to rise, and as cashflow becomes tighter, what started off as a linear process of credit deterioration at some stage becomes non-linear as credit deterioration suddenly accelerates.
  5. The reason, as this passage implies, is that in response to deteriorating prospects, at some point employees, suppliers, creditors, customers, managers, owners, competitors and regulators all begin to change their behaviors in ways that cause revenues to drop, expenses to rise, and even greater balance-sheet fragility. 
  6. At a certain point the only way to prevent a balance-sheet collapse is for a credible external agent to step in.
  7. We are likely to see this story played out many more times. Beijing should either rescue companies in trouble early or liquidate them quickly. The longer the process of deterioration, the higher the financial distress costs to the economy.

What About Huarong?

Huarong Puts $58.8 Billion of Bad Assets Up for Sale.

  1. “Current estimates put the size of the capital injection Huarong needs at around 100 billion yuan. Citic Group will provide the lion’s share of the funds, between 20 billion yuan and 50 billion yuan, most likely raised through bond issuance.”
  2. Now that Huarong’s intervention has been completed and it is in the process of recapitalization, it’s easy to forget about it, but the ways in which the authorities dispose of Huarong’s assets will tell us something about how future large insolvencies will be treated.
  3. For now they seem to be moving quickly to liquidate assets, which is a very good thing, although it is not clear if these will be sold at clearing prices or whether there will be pressure on buyers to pay whatever amount Huarong needs to be remain technically solvent.
  4. It is worth noting that to the extent that Huarong’s overvalued assets are written down to their correct values, this represents the amortization of bezzle.

Huarong Tweet Thread

Here is the Pettis Tweet Thread on Hyarong 

Amortization of Bezzle

Let’s discuss the amortization of Bezzle.

Transitive Verb
Dialectal, Chiefly British : WASTE, PLUNDER

Savings Imbalance Theory Revisited

I seldom disagree with Michael Pettis on anything but the notion of excess savings is one area. 

I discussed savings on September 17 in Giant Sucking Sounds, Mexico, NAFTA, Global Trade, and Gold

The discussion involved trade imbalances. Pettis stated “These excess savings abroad are the root cause of American deficits.”

I countered:

The root cause of these imbalances and debt buildups is lack of an enforcement mechanism, not excess savings.

Importantly, it’s not even possible to have excess savings. Can one be too prepared for the future? That’s impossible, isn’t it?

Savings Glut Theory

Former Fed Chair Ben Bernanke said the world was suffering from a “savings glut”.

Yeah right, with total credit market debt of $84.56 trillion.

I am quite sure Pettis would redefine “glut” as an “imbalance” as opposed to an “excess”.

Importantly, note the word “abroad” in his sentence “These excess savings abroad are the root cause of American deficits.”

I still do not accept that theory although it is certain we have enormous imbalances. 

Confusing Money Printing With Savings

Central banks and economists repeatedly conflate money with savings. 

In the classic sense, savings equals production minus consumption.

If the US government spends $1 trillion on a bridge and it collapses, there is a trillion dollars still sloshing around but where is the bridge?

The answer is the bridge was consumed, but savings supposedly went up by a trillion.

If the government paid people not to work (and didn’t we just do this thrice?) what was produced? The answer of course is nothing. 

We need to really rehash this “excess savings” idea from a classical definition standpoint because the classical definition, not money created out of thin air is the correct definition of saving.

Confusing Cause With Result

I certainly grant the notion of huge imbalances. The entire global economy is imbalanced beyond belief.

But savings imbalances are a “result” not a “cause” of anything. The “cause” is lack of an enforcement mechanism that was automatic under a gold standard.

Maybe there is a “pool of real savings” but that pool is dramatically overstated by malinvestment and debt.

The pool is not necessarily overseas.

Lack of An Enforcement Mechanism

In the wake of Nixon killing gold redeemability debt soared. Money was wasted. Imbalances grow every year.

No one seemingly has to pay for mistakes, not governments nor warmongers but the imbalances keep rising. 

There is no incentive on governments to reinstate the gold standard because politicians like to spend and pass the debt to future generations. The US national debt remains (to the tune of $28 trillion) but the real savings is largely consumed. What isn’t consumed goes in the pockets of the already wealthy.

China finances US debt but a lot of that went up in smoke in corrupt and bankrupt State Owned Enterprises.

That’s part of the easily seen imbalances.

And the Fed’s (central banks in general) response to this convoluted mess is their attempt to force more inflation and still more money and credit into a system literally choking on it.

This money sloshing around, created out of thin air is constantly confused with “saving”. 

What About Money?

There are many disputes as to how to measure it. I discuss money in What is the Best Measure of Monetary Inflation?

In a fiat world where money is created at will, it’s easy to confuse money with real savings, the production of goods.

Money was nearly always a placeholder out of necessity (e.g. grains spoil, produce rots), but money is now diluted almost beyond recognition as the level of debt shows.

Savings Imbalance or Outright Theft?

With that, let’s return to Pettis comments on Everglade. 

  • It is worth noting that to the extent that Huarong’s overvalued assets are written down to their correct values, this represents the amortization of bezzle.
  • “We are likely to see this story played out many more times.”
  • “This is an obvious problem for Evergrande’s suppliers, who might not be paid after having delivered products. It is in fact also a monetary problem.”
  • “Even as the chairman was proclaiming that a basic principle of his business is that cash is king, he was pulling cash out of the company.” 
  • According to WSJ: ‘As it piled on debt, Evergrande paid out billions in dividends to stockholders, with most of that cash going to Mr. Hui as its largest shareholder.’
  • “The payouts helped him become one of China’s richest men. He has received more than 34 billion yuan, the equivalent of $5.3 billion, in dividends since October 2018.”
  • As Hyman Minsky liked to point out, while anyone can make money, the hard part is getting others to accept it.
  • “The former head of the CSRC says that, compared to other countries, too much of China’s household wealth is tied up in real estate, and too little in financial assets. With property accounting for 70-80% of Chinese household wealth, he’s right.

Wealth Tied Up In Real Estate

How much is it really worth? 

In my post on savings, I asked, “If the US government spends $1 trillion on a bridge and it collapses, there is a trillion dollars still sloshing around but where is the bridge?”

In China, hundreds of billions went into property that never was built, or will be, or was built shoddily.  

That alleged “saving” just went up in smoke. 

It is worth noting that to the extent that Huarong’s overvalued assets are written down to their correct values, this represents the amortization of bezzle,” says Pettis.

I suggest the saving is the true value of those assets minus the debt still owed.

Regarding Hyman Minsky and developers being paid in half-built property that cannot be sold, where is the “saving” when others won’t accept it or have to be forced to accept it.

Confusing Money With Savings 

In a fiat world where money is created at will, it’s easy to confuse money with real savings, the production of goods minus the consumption of goods.

In this case, the goods have inflated value. Thus, saving is overstated. To the extent creditors were “paid” in half-completed projects that are likely worthless, there is no savings at all.

Savings Glut or Fiat Ponzi Scheme?

Everglade shows the theft of wealth and money in a giant Ponzi scheme, not to be confused with real savings (i.e. net tangible assets at true market value)!

There is no savings glut. 

The alleged savings glut is nothing but a fiat Ponzi scheme where central banks have to keep money supply soaring to keep asset prices (based on debt) from imploding!

How much longer this setup can continue before it blows up in a currency crisis, war with China, or some other major economic disruption remains a key mystery.

Perhaps it’s started.

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53 Comments
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Oldest Most Voted
Flatlaxity
Flatlaxity
4 years ago
Duh…I wonder…Is the Evergrande affair transitory or permanent?
Jackula
Jackula
4 years ago
Like Mish noted some parallels to Japan in 89. I don’t trust Chinese financial numbers for a second. If a good run starts on the Chinese real estate sector we could see a rerun here of 89-94, also the main reason why Bush Sr did not get re-elected. And in the current case our economy is a lot more bubbleliscious that it was in 89.
GodfreeRoberts
GodfreeRoberts
4 years ago
This article misunderstands (or over-simplifies) the nature of debt and misstates China’s. Let us count the ways:
1. China’s debt-to-GDP ratio in 3Q 2020 was the same as the US and the EU (with much lower shadow banking exposure): around 273% of GDP, according to the Bank for International Settlements.
2. China’s economy is growing 300% faster than the US economy and growth eats debt.
3. China’s debt is 98% domestic.
4. China’s asset to debt ratio is 3.8:1
5. China’s debt is self-liquidating, backed by high quality, productive assets. The Three Gorges Dam, for example, repays its construction costs every 42 months.
6. The Keynesian multiplier of Chinese debt is 200-300%, according to a US Federal Reserve study.
7. China, as we see, can turn on a dime: everyone is on board and cooperative with whatever measures the government prescribes.
8. 95% of Chinese trust their government, and debt is a measure of trust.
Before taking the above charts at face value, at least examine China’s official debt figures, as vetted by the Bank for International Settlements, Berne.
They bear no relation whatever to what  perennially-wrong-about-China Michael Pettis says.
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  GodfreeRoberts
Financially, China is in far better shape than the US. I think China could easily crash the US economy if it chose to do so. The converse is not true.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
4 years ago
Reply to  GodfreeRoberts
 “China’s debt is self-liquidating, backed by high quality, productive assets.”
Chinese specu … er, investors own an estimated 50 to 60 million UNOCCUPIED (poorly constructed) apartments.
Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear
4 years ago
This is a highly deflationary situation. The ripple effect could easily be more than $1T in debt defaults in China. The Federal Reserve expanded its balance sheet by at least that much to clean up the popped US housing bubble. The Chinese government could play chicken with reserve banks around the globe (finance as a weapon). The Chinese government could refuse to bail out or otherwise stabilized its financial markets in an effort to induce global reserve banks to support their own markets. This would slosh the currency markets with the yuan the beneficiary.
PostCambrian
PostCambrian
4 years ago
It was too much of a temptation to get paid for houses before even starting to build them. That usually doesn’t happen in the United States but even so the global housing market is broken and probably most residential housing is overpriced. Bloomberg has a video article on the subject. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2021-09-20/housing-dreams-dashed-by-a-broken-global-market-video?sref=aipnZtLa
Mackkenzie
Mackkenzie
4 years ago
Do any non Chinese institutions have significant exposure to Chinese corporate debt?
Would a crisis in Chinese corporate debt, with downgrades and refusal as collateral instruments, impact non Chinese institutions? To put it another way, are problems with china debt markets isolated to China itself?
Christoball
Christoball
4 years ago
Hi Mish, I was noticing the Dow Jones Industrial Average cast of characters  has changed quite a bit in the last 9 years with at least 14 new names on the index. Just wondering how much lower it would be if even only half the number of companies were different?
Mish
Mish
4 years ago
Reply to  Christoball
The DOW is weird 
What if it included Apple when Apple was $6 – wow 
Christoball
Christoball
4 years ago
Reply to  Mish
Yes it is. It seems mostly psychological
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  Mish
If Apple had been kept in at the original weighting and if you had invested in a Dow index fund you would now be very well of. Unfortunately Apple split and its weighting went from 11.2% to 2..7% in the Dow. In Modern Portfolio Theory when a stock becomes too much part of your porfolio you are supposed to trim it in order to rebalance it and reduce volitility. You end up selling your winners that way. I can see why a portfolio manager would do that, they hate volitility, but for an individual it is madnesss.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
Is this when you’re supposed to say, “I hope you’ve bought gold?”
Easily overlooked in the above very-helpful analysis (insert sucking up sound here)  begins with, “The tail risk emanating…”
IMHO, miss-pricing of tail risk was largely (entirely) responsible for events underlying the last recession. Euphoric optimism (from rising markets) induces myopia with respect to downside possibilities–the net result being that tail risk is discounted except by a few savvy investors. Financial markets tend to reduce all risk to systemic when pricing assets–after all that’s what is taught in B’ school. Past performance generates the data, and efficient markets ‘guarantees’ its accuracy. Meanwhile, hidden away in companies like Evergrande, lurk tail risk–black cygnets ready to grow into swans.
Bam_Man
Bam_Man
4 years ago
“Evergrande” is Chinese for “Enron”.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
The key question I have about Chinese balance sheets, is does anyone really trust them ? The Fed, ECB, BoJ and others have their issues, but I think China has a fundamental issue in that their financial system cannot be trusted at a baseline. They wipe out companies with little thought of bondholders or shareholders. Easy to do when the system is run by the CCP.
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
4 years ago
“At a certain point the only way to prevent a balance-sheet collapse is for a credible external agent to step in.”
Balance sheet collapses are good things. Anything which result in the exact same thing getting cheaper, always is.
It’s the artificial levitation of worthless junk, which cause misallocation. And which facilitates temporary bezzle, being converted into permanent embezzlement. The latter process which is, of course, the reason why the leeches; whose entire, lavish livelihoods derive from nothing else; are always clamoring for bailouts and “credible external agents (read: productive people to be robbed) to step in.”
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
4 years ago
Reply to  StukiMoi
“Balance sheet collapses are good things.”
Yes.
It is the ONLY way to narrow wealth divide without ruining currency.
Carl_R
Carl_R
4 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
Whether is narrows the wealth divide depends on whose balance sheet collapses, doesn’t it?  What about all those who bought homes? Their balance sheets will collapse if the value of their homes drops to 1/3 what they paid for it. It’s not hard to picture a scenario where they lose the homes, and all their savings, and someone scoops up the homes and rents them back, increasing the wealth divide.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
4 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
You don’t think who buys the distressed homes won’t see their balance sheet impacted?
Anyways, crushed balances sheets will hurt everyone.  Some more than others.  In the case of those who lose their homes, doesn’t sound like they ever really had much equity.  Better off giving back to lender (and renting).
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
4 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
Crushed balance sheets, leave the exact same real stuff intact. The same houses. None disappear. And the same exact people. Ergo, no net loss of houses per person. Crushed balance sheets have a purely redistributive effect.
Hence, whatever someone’s loss, is another’s gain. So the only way by which “regular people” could lose out, would be if “the rich” somehow gained. Which is unlikely in the extreme, considering how lopsided ownership of anything with a balance sheet has become, 50 years into our wild and illiterate experiment in completely unconstrained financialization.
In practice, a truly severe (think reverse the theft all the way back to $20/oz Gold), virtually all encompassing, balance sheet crush; would bankrupt “everybody.” Leaving everyone at ground zero. Then, at the moment when everyone is broke, everything is firesold to the highest bidder….. Resulting in all the same wealth being owned, just as before. None lost. Only this time with little to no debt attached to any of it. Which could not help but leave anyone who does not benefit well above average from the unsustainable debt rackets, better off than he currently is. And remember, the main beneficiaries of debt rackets, are hardly “regular people.”
So, people will have their house. Their house isn’t going anywhere. They’ll just own it with a much lower mortgage attached to it. Perhaps not ideal for the banksters which The Fed, unconditionally, handed all the fat income streams from other people’s mortgages to. But a nice development indeed, for most everyone else, who will no longer have to carry those deadweights on their productive shoulders.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Eddie says buy NOW.

Though stocks have lost some of their momentum in September so far, some strategists believe the move may be temporary. 

“You have to look at where the crowding is, and right now, there’s so much negative sentiment with regard to the market. It’s why we have been buying this dip this week and telling our clients that we think the market setup is perfect for a pretty big rally for the rest of September and possibly the beginning of October,” Eddie Ghabour, Key Advisors managing partner, https://twitter.com/YahooFinance/status/1438957207039533058 “The next big hurdle we have to get through is the Fed meeting on Wednesday. If the Fed doesn’t disappoint, I think it’s a risk-on rally … right now everyone is so pessimistic about the market, and in our opinion markets don’t crash when everyone is positioned for it.” 

Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
This is probably a net positive for the dollar. The US can decouple from China and already has moved supply chains to other Asian countries.  But China cannot decouple from the world completely. I do expect real estate to hit the wall everywhere at some point. At some point you run out of dollars and buyers to chase. It is all very reminiscent of 2007. 
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
A lot has changed in 20 years. China has far more influence over the US than the other way around. Same is true for most of the world. We’re too dumb to realize it. China trades far more with the rest of the world than the US does.
tbergerson
tbergerson
4 years ago
The real question is how much of this does Emperor Xi understand?  All that matters in the short term is what he does about it.  And anything that happens comes from Xi.  No other institutional head will do anything i fit might mean their death ore removal.  Thats the problem with allowing your country to be ruled by someone like Xi, who has pretensions to outstrip Mao in the cult of personality sweepstakes.
It is probably still salvageable if he nips it in the bud right now.  I mean they have been pretending for years.  The Soviets were able to pretend for decades.  His conundrum is if he does so, he is bailing put thieves.  Somehting unpalatable to him ideologically.  But if he does not, then he risks a phase change in psychology that creates an economic disaster which then imperils social harmony.  Possibly to the extent that it is not containable by force or threat.  Which would then imperil the CCP itself AND his status as the glorious Emperor for now and posterity
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Reply to  tbergerson
As long as China has the means of production, they can recover from almost anything. The problem with the Soviet Union is they tried to become a closed economy. China isn’t trying to do that. 
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
4 years ago
Reply to  tbergerson
If the Rich go down it will be fine. If the common man loses his home/condo or his deposit on a home/condo then there will be massive political unrest.
I suspect the Rich (speculators, bond holders etc) will be made to fail as an example.
Remember they’ve seen the US response to this very thing in 2008 so they know how it plays out if they follow the US model so there is no reason for them to do so.
tbergerson
tbergerson
4 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Yes thats exactly right.  But I wonder if it is really  the common person per se that matters.  China has still a huge number of people living in poverty.  But they have a fairly large cohort that is middle class and that has participated in the property boom.  I do not have a good sense of how many people that is.  Nor whether the numbers involved would be enough to lead to general unrest.  If Xi keeps it to a small enough number, like the rich, then he likely has no problem as you suggest.  And I am sure he has a gasp of what those numbers are.  Still, these things can grow outside of the boundaries you believe exists around them.  Time will tell how this episode plays out
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
“Don’t expect the collapse to be contained to China.”
Bernanke said it was contained to subprime. Don’t worry, the FED will come up with another multi letter acronym, emergency credit facility, to save the day.
njbr
njbr
4 years ago
7 swans a swimming…
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
4 years ago

“How much longer this setup can continue before it blows up in a currency crisis, war with China, or some other major economic disruption remains a key mystery.

Perhaps it’s started.”

Prescient.
Following Xi Jinping closely.  Concocting a rather interesting stew recently.   Worried Wealth Inequality has gone too far … dramatic increase in Taiwan incursions (coupled with ratcheted bellicosity) … taking effeminate men off tv (?!?).
Would not be surprised if he’s calculated that Bubble has gone too far / China can handle collapse better than West / time ripe to move on Taiwan (assuredly a bubble buster).  He’s 68 and  (maybe) wants to clean house and set up China long term.
I realize that this sounds on-the-ledge and could be completely off base.  The next couple of years will – no doubt – be interesting.
RunnerDan
RunnerDan
4 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
Good point.  
A poster here, many years ago, remarked that China was more capitalistic than the US in that if you should show up to the hospital over there without insurance, then you would bleed to death on the floor.  The benefit being much lower healthcare costs since there is no government intervention.  Similarly, if Xi popped his country’s housing bubble, the benefit would be a more equitable wealth distribution and a shift of wealth  generation towards actual “makers” instead of land lord leeches.  The brains in the country would be drawn to more productive endeavors unlike here where the privileged elites gravitate to finance and other non-productive sectors.  China would become even more stronger with their citizens engaged in more productive pursuits.
Jackula
Jackula
4 years ago
Reply to  RunnerDan
I suspect this may be true as other evidence abounds: crackdown on non-productive endeavors like crypto and social media has already started
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
4 years ago
Cash ($US) will be King.  Again.
For 12 years the “expert” narrative has focused on Return ON Capital …nary a word on Return OF Capital.
The worm in turning.  Finally.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
Love your songs!
Zardoz
Zardoz
4 years ago
Not to worry… truckloads of mysterious money will show up about noon, and turn those charts into happy smiles.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago

Value is not what you paid for it
but at what you can sell it for. 

You covered it pretty well and not
much to add in the economic point of view. China hit the wall and will have to
go through the painful adjustment. The Chinese government has been preparing
for the social unrest that will come from this by taking over the internet
companies there, reining in the billionaires, anti-corruption prosecutions,
snuffing out Hong Kong dissent and a few other measures. We will see how it
works. Will it be like Japan or will it get out of control ending up in who
knows what? A lot of money went into real estate in developed countries these
last few years. Probably some of it will be included in forced asset sales if
we take Japan in the 1990’s for example. In any case this will kill Chinese
growth for a while.   

Yooper
Yooper
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
“Value is not what you paid for it
but at what you can sell it for. “
To only have this taught in high school 🙂
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  Yooper
Haggling should be taught in gradeschool but it isn’t taught until you get to college and take Haggling 101.
Yooper
Yooper
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
LOL, my first real experience in Haggling was traveling for work in India. I think I got taken to the cleaners by young kids selling the collapsible wire fidgets 🙂
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  Yooper
 I too have that type of experience.
Souks will teach much more about negotiating than any college course.

Kids should learn it early. Kids
used to do it all the time with baseball cards and like. My two daughters
learned it early and came up with the concept of interest at an early age all
by themselves. It was funny to watch. Capitalism is entwined in the human
genome. It’s instinctive. 

Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
Reply to  Yooper
It will never happen–at high school or college. The value of education in the USA is now negative.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Meanwhile, back here in the heart of the American Empire:
Right now we see the smartest money on Wall Street moving out of commercial paper and into residential RE including single family….a huge shift that is rapidly pushing up prices as the smart money positions itself to benefit from high inflation. Prices are rapidly rising as cap rates fall.
Mom and pop landlords are either being squeezed out because our cash flow models don’t work anymore…..or because what look like high prices right now are an incentive to cash out.
Deep pocket WS investors who can borrow 10 year money at 90% LTV  and 3% or less, and have ample reserves to ride out years of negative cash flow….can make gains that make junk bonds looks pathetic, especially in the early years of ownership, off the rising prices if real inflation is at 5% or higher. So they are buying everything in sight in desirable cities like mine, willing to pay 20% over the going price…knowing that (a) if the debt Ponzi keeps going and inflation rises, they make out like bandits….or (b) if we have a monetary crisis and prices fall precipitously, that eventually cash flow will make them whole anyway, as America becomes a nation of renters.
The difference between here and China is that instead of a huge RE surplus, we have a shortage. Other than that, it sort of rhymes, really.
If we have a credit crunch here and the Fed needs to inject more trillions into the economy, it looks (at least to some smart people I know) that the way it has been done since 2008 will reach its limits, and since interest rates are at zero, the usual Fed blunt instrument of lowering rates is no longer available……and that the relationship between money-on-deposit in US banks…. and the Fed balance sheet will reach its theoretical limits, and the Bernanke method of making ends meet will have been exhausted.
My mentor, who has been reading the Fed minutes verbatim  for 20 years, says the interesting thing now is that the Fed governors no longer discuss what their plan will be to handle the next crisis. It simply is not talked about, and he says this is a major change. One can assume that they either have no plan, or that the plan is in place and they are somehow managing to keep a tight lid on it.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Does it sound like I spent all weekend in class? lol.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
With you it’s natural wisdom and not book-lean’n.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T

You make a lot of good points there. My definition of smart
money is money that buys low and sells high and buying RE at these prices
assumes that they as institutions will always be bailed out because it always
has been since Greenspan became chairman. To me from the outside it looks like safety
in numbers mentality. They know they are buying too high but if everyone is
doing it then you can’t be blamed when it turns bad. That was the same
mentality among fund managers buying subprimes. I wonder if the assumption they
will be bailed is still correct. Till now when you save a financial institution
from deserved bankruptcy you also save the management and their personal wealth
with it. With the savings and loan crisis in the late 1980’s that was not the
case. The institutions and depositors were saved but many of the management
went to jail and lost their ill-gained wealth. What if the next time we save
the institution but jail the perpetrators? 

How nice of the Chinese to give us a real-time experiment of
the breaking of a huge RE bubble. I have my popcorn ready.

Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Eventually. Eventually. Eventually. It all works until it eventually doesn’t.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Eventually eventually becomes now.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
My weekend in class has me asking two important questions that I only wish I had answers for.
One is’ “ How can the Fed do a damn thing about inflation if it turns out NOT to be transitory, because raising rates will bankrupt the government.”
The second is, “When the inevitable correction in stocks and housing does come, what can the Fed/Treasury do to stimulate the economy when interest rates are so close to zero.”
I saw some very interesting charts this last weekend…..on how different the expected outcomes for the coming SS shortfall (and other unfunded liabilities) would be if actual inflation happened to just be 2 points higher than the reported CPI. Over some years, it makes the math work much better for the government. I will say that much.
So the plan appears to be, “Support the markets at all costs, and let inflation run hot to cheat the retirees.”
The problem is what happens if they lose control, and stocks tank. It’s not an easy tightrope for them to walk, and things like a Chinese hard landing, or some other unforeseeable Black Swan can bite them on the butt pretty easily now. They are just going to have a hard time finding enough money for more and more trillions of stimulus if than happens…..unless they do really just flat out start printing…..
That would be a game changer, and the Rickards and Schiffs of the world would start being right instead of wrong, imho
Felix_Mish
Felix_Mish
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Liked” for “mentor…verbatim” paragraph. Interesting observation. Keep ’em coming!
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
What happens depends on how home purchases are done in China. Do people put a lot down and borrow little? or they more like the US where probably 80% is borrowed.
Investors who made a huge down payment won’t likely be bailed out. They don’t have enough power or influence. They’ll either get an unfinished piece of real estate or nothing.
Investors who borrowed a lot will likely just default and pretend the whole thing never happened. And the banks will eat a big loss.
Either way, I don’t see the CCP bailing everyone out like the FED did after TARP and the FED buying a ton of shoddy MBS from banks. I think they want to convey a message that bubbles are very risky.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
I think they’ll bail out the common man who put a down payment toward a home/condo that was never finished. They need to do that for political unrest reasons (you don’t want millions in the street protesting).
But I agree that investors (speculators) won’t and shouldn’t get bailed out.
Call_Me
Call_Me
4 years ago
Doesn’t bode well for the ghost cities or country’s population in general.  If those proclaiming China’s rise to supplant the U.S. is imminent or has happened are correct, then the logical expectation is that there will be military action undertaken in the near future.  No point collecting all those sabres to rattle without actually using them.
Mish-  There are a couple points where you have ‘Everglade’ instead of ‘Evergrande’ – teasing a future post on a non-political mess in FL and the sugar barons? 😉

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