Tweet Thread on Violence
Here is the thread started by Peter Atwater, an analyst I highly respect.
If Biden wins and Trump repeats his claim the election was stolen, violence could start on either side no matter who wins.
Never before in history has a candidate refused to say he would honor the result, until now.
Trump ought to say right now he will honor the vote. He should also request calm no matter who wins.
But here we are with potentially explosive consequences.
This is especially true if Trump declares he won the election before the votes are in, or he attempts to disquality votes not counted.
Regardless, this is a powder keg of emotion with no apparent outlet and no calming words anywhere.
I sincerely hope I am wrong, but I fear violence no matter who wins.
Mish
I understand the fear of rioting, and I am deeply saddened that we have come to this, something I never thought we’d see here, something only seen on tv from other countries. Beyond that troubling issue and even who wins this election is problems that raise very serious questions about the validity of our electoral system. So many people get so hung up on their dislike of Trump, they cannot see past him to the big picture. Trump is not the big problem here, this is about possible election fraud, and EVERY AMERICAN should be alarmed about it and should want to get to the bottom of it. If there is a problem, we MUST fix it, if there isn’t, which I rather doubt, then we can relax in the knowledge that our system is still working (which, again, I doubt). It is a terrible feeling to wonder if our electoral system is broken, and, worse yet, to wonder if fellow Americans are rigging it. This cannot be allowed to slide without investigation, so, please, get over Trump, he’s ONE individual and likely gone. This voting issue affects every American and is a huge part of the foundation upon which our country is built. It may Republicans this time, but it could be your team next time.
You may have to shut the “Community” section of the site down for awhile. It’s getting spammed like crazy, and anyone who clicks on those links is braver than I am. Those spammed links look like likely sites to catch a trojan to me.
The community section has been shut down for hours. Not sure why you can see them. In incognito I cannot see deleted posts but I can as owner. Do you see them?
They are gone now. My ISP might have been caching the page.
“I can hire half the working class to kill the other half.”
— Jay Gould (1886)
Don’t wet yourself yet, but most of the “violence” will be perpatrated by Antifa and the radical left. A Trump concession is the only result they will accept, and you know it…stop being so ingenuous by pretending this is all on Trump. It’s the other way around.
Mish, why in the world would you be fearful after moving to Utah? Do you still have Illinois license plates on your car?
I am not fearful personally. I fear riots in cities
Kiss Thalamus Goodbye and every comment her ever made.
“Scorecard and the hammer, which got Obama and Michael elected, is the reason the vote won’t be accepted. It’s a mathematical impossibility for Joe Biden to win unless there is CIA cheating.”
We live in a world where there are riots when the home team wins the big game. I’m calling a Biden win and antifa riots. 🙂
I just voted Trump and to hedge that I voted for legal marijuana. That way if Biden wins I can eat edibles for 4 years 😂
Based on all the responses to Mish’s story it is clear that there are extremely strong views on either side. That being the case I would not rule out protests / violence from either side depending on the results tonight. I am a registered Republican but will not be voting for Trump tonight. I fear the Republican Party is headed in the wrong direction under it’s current leadership.
I would say that Mish carefully chose the the topic to get the most responses. No doubt he has his reasons but since he lives in Utah now I doubt he is afraid for himself and immediate his family. Myself I am not worried about my family in Vermont. They are very level-headed there but I am worried about those in my family who live in Brooklyn. I have no confidence in de Blasio and his goons.
“Never before in history has a candidate refused to say he would honor the result, until now.”
Never before had the government been weaponized against a presidential candidate, as was done against Trump. Same with Trump as president elect and as president.
On inauguration day the Washington Post said let the impeachment begin.
Democrats never honored the result of the 2016 election. They were out to get him from day one.
Google, Facebook, Twitter, have been actively election tampering in 2020. All the debate moderators were Democratic Party operative Anti-Trumpers. Rigged is the word that comes to mind.
Oh, and apparently Trump is not to be allowed to declare victory tonight, even if he wins.
Talk about not honoring the result of an election.
Trump can’t win until the election is over. The election isn’t over until all the votes are counted or someone concedes.
If Trump announces he won before the election is over, then he is lying and trying to delegitimize the results of the election.
Are you a fan of free and fair elections where every vote is counted, or are you an enemy of democracy?
“Are you a fan of free and fair elections where every vote is counted, or are you an enemy of democracy?”
What is free and fair about election tampering by Google, Facebook and Twitter?
If you want to talk about enemies of democracy, let’s talk about the Democrats.
Democracy dies in darkness, as the Washington Post proclaimed. Google, Facebook and Twitter are Democratic Party operatives that are trying to keep the American people in the dark, so we cannot make informed decisions as to who to vote for.
Sadly, there’s no use trying to have a conversation, they are made void by their devisive self righteousness that stems from, I don’t know, a sense of entitlement, superiority, inferiority, poor upbringing, power envy….it’s hard to say for sure. Then again, “Pelosi” might say it all and sum it up.
What are you talking about?
Seriously, what are you talking about? The Democrats are encouraging everyone to vote and want to make sure every vote is counted.
Your reply makes no sense.
That’s rich coming from someone that spews some of the most mind-boggling misinformation.
The problem for Ron is that he can’t threaten to move to Canada if it doesn’t go his way. It’s too much of a socialistic hellhole for him. So he’s left with going to someplace like Uruguay, the Phillipines, or Russia where a sufficiently jack-booted police state keeps strict control of the things that the dear leader doesn’t like.
Are you auditioning for the Comedy Store on Sunset Blvd.?
Keep your day job.
A neighbor of mine was Cuban. Lived under Castro as a child. He just left California because of what the Democrats are doing to the state.
When one side sees itself as being the only one who is legitimate I make sure to vote for the other side. Fascism takes many forms. Which side is the one that demands obedience?
Not to mention that tthe democrats have vowed not to concede and the Biden campign has even stated that they will not allow (?) Trump to declare victory.
This just in. Cops shoot man wielding machete outside circle K in Tucson. No idea of election related 🌵
Sounds like PCP
Guy was probably just trying to quench his thirst after the Fall harvest of his desert crops, then boom… victim of police violence.
Reports coming out that the U.S Military has briefed all major news anchors and are saying they will remain apolitical and will not play a role in trying to adjudicate the election result if it is contested, this itself is extraordinary and a little troubling as they seem eager to distance themselves from the current civilian president(not good).
This only further puts pressure on the judiciary at all levels to rule for Biden. You see the dog whistles blowing all over the place, Wall Street also signaling the need for a non contested election.
No more trumpletanrums will be tolerated.
This is standard operating procedure, not “distancing.” They are required to be apolitical.
The US of A is now ungovernable. A failed state where only violence banana-republic looting will take place and feed the cycle of violence.
Blame who you want, people are experts at creating a boogeyman. Just know that by playing the blame game you choose a long descent into poverty.
The only people who should really be worried are those in the some city centers.
I expect that is correct…..and that if violence occurs that it will be limited and sporadic, not some armed militia movement. Nobody is that organized…..not like law enforcement is organized. Law enforcement is VERY organized and well equipped.
National guard troops are already deployed here in some potential hot zones.
I predict one or more crazy (as in mentally ill) people will be moved to commit violence against some innocent people….that’s what we have here in this country….the gun-nuts are not the problem as much as the plain-old-nuts with guns.
You can bet at least 1 in 100 pudgy exurbanites are strutting around the house in full battle rattle though.
I can’t find the key to the gun closet….think I left my keys at the lake last weekend. In case of the zombie apocalypse, I will crowbar the lock…..otherwise it will be a peaceful election outcome at my house.
But you simply cannot buy ammo here for any common calibers……it just flies off the shelf…..
One armed pudgy exurbanite can stand down a mob of your people any day. It’s been done many times before.
Pray tell are those Trump supporters or Biden supporters? WE ALL KNOW THAT THEY ARE BIDEN SUPPORTERS.
Antifa and BLM are Democrat supporters that have killed, maimed and attacked people and destroyed the cities they live in.
The MEDIA has sinisterly refused to acknowledge this fact. A pox on them. They are to blame for the chaos in our country. Not Trump.
I am in a city center. I added coverage to my policy for rioting and civil disturbance, which I don’t currently have, but it doesn’t take effect until November 13th.
Nigel Farange took to visitng the U.S. and declring the only people who will commit violence are Democrats if they lose the election
Well isn’t he a far right wing nut? Him and Trump two peas in a pod
He’s a nut, but his rants are fantastic! Makes trump look like a stroke victim in comparison.
I predict that there will be less violence than expected. Both sides are armed and both sides know that if provoked will defend themselves. This means that the chances of being hurt or killed if things get out of hand go way up. Once the individual actors realise this (and they do rather quickly) the urge to talk and not fight becomes paramount. The only exception to this rule is when people in gangs are fighting for turf or when excessive drugs or alcohol are involved. Normally people prefer to talk and when both sides are armed they make the effort to be polite.
As a start, I’d like to to urge everyone on this forum to pledge to support the newly elected President, whoever it is. As a person who strongly supported Jorgensen, I have a high degree of confidence that the newly elected President won’t be someone who I voted for, yet I pledge to support whoever is elected.
I send him 80k in tax money every year. That’s all he gets.
Is that taxes on income from your trust fund? That’s par for the course for you guys.
Is that taxes on income from your trust fund? That’s par for the course for you guys.
Define “support.”
Support means agreeing that the elected person is the President, and empowered to exercise the powers of the office. It doesn’t mean not criticizing him, however.
I will not pledge support. I will pledge to have an open mind and allow policies to be developed to see if I can support them.
Just as the left did not accept Trump, the right should not accept Trump. The Russian hoax was an attempted coup. I hate Trump, but hate the Democrats more for turning our country into a banana republic.
I thought in our country we pledged to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America-not any individual office holder.
trump is Putin’s masterpiece for destroying America.
It’s your site Mish so do what you want. Ban me too if you don’t like my question. But I don’t see why this comment from Zardoz is any less inflammatory or offensive than the one you quoted that got Thalamus banned.
What are you talking about. More evidence free conspiracy theory disinformation…
Pent up emotions / violence on both of of similar to identical policy. Time to face reality. America is becoming 3rd world in a growing list of things.
All the violence, so far, has been in heavily democratic cities and perpetrated by BLM and/or Antifa. Little evidence that Trump supporters will be violent. Lots of evidence to the contrary.
Like that bunch that rode through Portland shooting people with paintballs? Like the ones that can’t seem to put down their rifles when they go to the grocery store? Like the one that busted out the windows on that store during a protest and left? Like the ones that have run over protesters?
The Gravy Seals will kick off various moronic ‘operations’ when trump loses. I expect 30-50 people to die from this stupidity… but it’s not an existential threat to the country by any means. It’ll serve as a lesson in how ineffective the second amendment is as at allowing the overthrow of the government.
“Like that bunch that rode through Portland shooting people with paintballs?”
You are comparing that one incident to over 100 straight nights of riots by radical leftist Antifa?
Just pointing out that there are a lot of conservative assholes too.
There are numerous incidents of violence by Trump’s domestic terrorists. I guess you don’t count the Trumper who killed two people in Wisconsin? Trump IS a terrorist. Some of my grandchildren are mixed race and I worry about them being killed by Trump’s white supremacist terrorists. ALL he stands for is violence against POC.
Violence is almost exclusively a Democrat supporter and not republicans. What is mish going on about?
Am not expecting any violence from the right, and think violence from the left might not happen as much as expected. I would like to see the right-wing militias identified and introduced to public discourse. I can never find anything about them, seems they’re white as ghosts.
Contrary to popular opinion violence will be low in my opinion if Biden wins. It’s not as bad as some are making it out to be , the supremes and pretty much any federal judge are going to give Biden the benefit of the doubt because they want to preserve the current system and the nice perks they have. In fact even a sizable portion of Biden voters are voting for the same thing, keep the current system going.
Trump supporters are not the riot in the streets with brick supporters they are the AR-15 crowd which leaves no room in the middle, if they go out and mayhem, well there is only one response possible for law enforcement, Trump supporters know this and will stay home.
If a serious number of Trump supporters go mayhem, the police will stay home. You would need to call in the National Guard. Question though? What would they go mayhem against?
The Liberal mayhem earlier in the year targeted a friends Store in LA, which we boarded up yesterday, just in case, to protect against thieves and brigands if Trump wins.
I do not expect Trump supporters to go mayhem, if they did the state cannot afford to let armed mayhem go unchallenged, it would be direct challenge to its legitimacy and ultimately be a precursor to something much greater than Trump. It would be akin to the John Brown raid that kicked off the armed conflict pahse of the Civil War, it would be an admission that the time to talk is over. We are still very far from that.
The government at large can’t afford to let that happen as it would force their hand in many areas and usher an end to the status quo towards a more totalitarian system, hence why the judiciary will side with Biden in order to keep the status quo system going.
I’d tend to agree. trumplings are generally too obese and old to be out on the street for any length of time. That’s why they favor their F150 and boat parades. There will be a few hardcore nutbars that will do a few horrible things, but for the most part there will just be wailing and conniptions.
The leftist protesters seem pretty young and spry though, and they are not backing down. Brown people are still getting executed by cops too, so they will definitely be in the mix.
I seem to remember that Al Gore refused to accept the vote and had lawyers intervene several times.
Bush won every recount, was relatively hidden from view during each recount (that he won each and every time) and refused to recount those counties that were favorable to him where he would have picked up votes. Only those counties were recounted that favored Gore.
So there’s at least one other candidate who refused to just accept the vote.
Trump stated he accept the vote, but only if we knew the vote. There’s a difference. Trump NEVER stated he’d refuse to accept the vote. There is a clear difference between what Mish is saying Trump would do vs. what Trump actually said he’d do.
I’m not apologizing for Trump either. I can’t stand the guy. I just care about careful statements that don’t misstate what someone actually said, on either side.
Mostly bullshit
There was a legitimate debate over a legitimate recount
That is not what we are discussing here
Mish, do you remember The Honorable Bill Daley (“NAFTA, because we have-ta”) in a trench coat chasing down Al Gore’s stretch limo in the middle of the night 20 years ago?
I didn’t interpret Trumps statement to mean anything other than getting lawyers involved to make sure stuff was counted accurately. Votes that aren’t in on time shouldn’t be counted, period.
Votes that aren’t tallied properly shouldn’t be counted, period. Whoever is losing has an incentive to at least attempt that nonsense, since they are losing anyway.
You may have interpreted his statement another way, but if you look at what Trump actually said, there was no statement about not stepping down if the vote didnt’ go his way.
That was my point, that Trump has legitimate concerns about how votes are counted and if they aren’t counted properly, he’s going to fight it. He never said anything remotely resembling “I won’t step down” like many are saying.
“Votes that aren’t in on time shouldn’t be counted, period.”
How convenient that the party that crippled the USPO will say that as if “high ground”
“Votes that aren’t in on time shouldn’t be counted, period.”
I might respect that opinion, if trump’s crony hadn’t gutted the Post Office. In that light, your opinion is hot garbage.
The post office has been removing and updating their delivery system for years.
It has nothing to do with Trump at all.
Just to be clear, the law in the US has always been the post box rule – something is considered delivered when it is mailed, not when it is received. For anything postmarked before the election date to be considered to be received by that date is consistent with US legal history.
Furthermore there there is the doctrine of laches. If a legal doctrine is not challenged on a timely basis, and things happen in reliance on that doctrine, it can not be challenged later. Thus, if the doctrine is that things can be mailed up to and including election day, it has to be overturned before that time. Otherwise people will mail ballots in reliance that their vote will be counted because they have done what they were told they could do. To overturn that, and not count their vote, after the fact would be a clear injustice, and laches would prevent such a ruling.
Agreed
i missed where trump clearly said he would honor the vote. when and where did he say that? you sound like a fool.
Biden didn’t say that either. People aren’t obligated to say things we want. We can hold them to account for what they actually DID say if we disagree.
Where did Trump say he WAS NOT going to honor the vote? I don’t see that. I see a bunch of statements where he is going to send lawyers in to make sure the vote is tallied correctly.
Yes, He’s said some stupid stuff too, but no where do I see him saying he won’t honor the vote, only that he’s concerned about the vote being counted correctly.
And I am NOT a TRump fan.
A dimpled chad is hardly a legitimate reason for counting a “vote.” Gore stated on election night in 2020 that “the campaign continues”! So no, what Trump is saying is hardly new territory.
That year I voted in Palm Beach County and ever since I often wonder if I left a hanging chad and if by doing so changed the course of History. I could be responsible for 9/11 and the Iraqi War from the simple act of not having punch through my ballot enough.
The worst part about those punch-out ballots, which I have used before, too, is that when it comes time for re-counts, the more they are handled, the more chads fall out, perhaps rendering valid votes invalid.
Bush led by about a 1,000 votes in Florida in 2000, well within the range for madatory recount.
Happens all the time in races big and small. Eventually a number is settled on and everyone moves on. Gore did.
No violence implied or threatened, no militias raised. And no years-long prior campaign to imply the unfairness, illegality, bias of each and every form of voting that might result in Trump losing an election. “The only way I would lose if it was stolen”
Gore never agreed to stop. He was forced to stop by the courts. Big difference.
Gore conceded to Bush on December 13th in a nationally televised speech.
Don’t be so low info that you cant even check widely avaiable information.
And no years-long prior campaign to imply the unfairness, illegality, bias of each and every form of voting that might result in Trump losing an election. “The only way I would lose if it was stolen”
You ignore the 4 year soft coup attempt to get rid of Trump. My, how convenient.
Sadly enough, the Republican congress said at the beginning of Obama’s term that their job was to make Obama fail.
Dude, he conceded on Dec 13th, after a long and bitter recount, and after the Supreme Court ruled. In his speech, which I actually watched, he made some very bitter statements about how strongly he disagreed with the Supreme Courts decision.
He certainly did everything in his power to win using his own army of lawyers.
I’m not really sure what your statement has to do with mine to be honest. My statement is that if Trump uses his own army of lawyers he wouldn’t be the first to do so. There is nothing wrong with that as long as it’s within the legal confines of counting accuracy.
Yes, I’d have a problem with any politician using his power to deny legal votes, but Trump hasn’t said anything of the sort.
If all the votes had been counted in Florida Gore would have won. Bush won precisely because they stopped the recount. Helps to have your brother as governor of the state in question.
also, google dbt (database technologies) and florida voter roll purge
That’s a bunch of nonsense. They counted ALL The votes several times in democratically held counties. Bush won every single recount. Also, they only recounted several times in liberal counties, where Gore was most likely to pick up the most votes.
Trump’s response to his militia “army” almost forcing the Biden bus off the highway and causing at least one wreck in Texas was LOVE IT! That act he said he saw his people did nothing wrong. In fact the FBI is looking into it according to the FBI and if they are it would have to be under the Federal Code, the relevent section being Title 18 subsection 241 and possibly 242, Conspiracy Against Rights, felony charges carrying up to 10 years in prison and if certain conditions are met a capital crime. But Trump praised them and his son had just invited those supporters at a Texas rally “to go out and have a little fun.” It is not as if the federal code has laws that are applicable to what happened on that freeway that are NOT felonies. The FBI is not investigating these people for tailgating.
I think there will be some serious problems. In fact I think long term the US is finished.
The law and order POTUS…
The FBI is looking into an incident where a pickup truck behind the bus was struck by a Biden SUV swerving into the pickup truck’s lane. No one tried to run the bus off the road. The pickup truck didn’t seem to sustain much damage, so nothing will likely come of it.
I’m not condoning the Trump supporters.
READ the actual law I posted, I will repost the text:
18 U.S. Code § 241.Conspiracy against rights
If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or
If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured—
They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.
If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate…
All you have to do to be guilty of this FELONY is conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate. It does not say you have to be successful at stopping them, or keeping them from voting, or killing them etc. you are violating their rights and committing a crime just by giving the appearance that you mean to. What would you have thought had you been on that bus and saw a bunch of armed yahoos with lifted trucks and Trump signs and there were at least a dozen such vehicles.
And best of all there is video to PROVE they did it. These bastards would be on their way to prison if Biden was not so concerned with “unity.” And those people should thank whatever makebelieve god they have nobody on that bus was hurt or died of a heart attack. Then they could well be facing the death penalty, that is how serious this crime was. The right likes to do shit like this then claim it is a bunch of beered up dickless wonders going out into the woods trying to make themselves feel far more virile than they really are, no matter, still a crime and you do not even give the perception that you might want to do something like it.
And 100% of it is on the fascist GOP side, this is not like a peaceful demonstration that the right seeded with criminals to cause trouble and right wing cops tossing those fascists water bottles and thanking them for a job well done, then escalating the demonstration into a riot.
Democracies always die, usually in <200 years. They last until politicians figure out that they can get elected by passing things that give things to people. Then, government spending grows steadily until the country is bankrupt, and meanwhile, those on the receiving end become more and more dependent on government. When the country is bankrupt, there is a violent end. The US has lasted longer than most because the USD became the reserve currency, which has allowed us to spend more, and for longer, than otherwise would been permitted, but all good things end in time, and the USD as a reserve currency won’t last another generation, nor will the US, but we had a good run, and we have been very lucky to have been born in a very good time in the history of the world.
In the short run, we can all pledge to support whoever is elected and hope for the best.
Our politicians have figured out they don’t even have to give people things… they just get one group to hate the other group, and they’ll cheer when things are taken from the hated group. Every 4 years or so, the groups switch sides, and the rich get richer while our kids our ground into poverty by hidden inflation and debt.
The hate is just a sign that we are approaching the end. It would be nice if the new President can be a uniter, but I’m not sure either party would stand for it.
Right the reason all the stores are boarded up is fear of the Trump voter not BLM/antifa…nothing to see here. Since the Left has indoctrinated certain groups with identity politics and anti-white animus, the die is cast….a break up of the US is not only likely but desirable. At some point, there is nothing left to lose for impoverished whites who are denigrated by the woke elites.
Sad that so many Americans are willing to kill each other over two men who could care less about their liberty, their freedom, their rights, and the Constitution.
Driven on the freeway lately? Americans are just looking for an excuse.
If someone “could care less”, that means they care. If they “couldn’t care less”, that means they don’t care.
To me the phrase “I could care less” means “I care a little, but not a lot”, while “I couldn’t care less” means “I don’t care at all”.