Is a Recession On the Way or Has it Already Started?

Image Fox News video clip from Tweet below.

Soft Landing Thesis 

The Real Question

Key Comments

  • DiMartino Booth: “Amazon first announced it was going to be laying off 100,000 workers, and we really did get validation of the slowdown with Target, Walmart, Kohl’s saying we’re sitting on way too much inventory, demand is not there.”
  • Adam Taggart:  I think the “Great Resignation” is poised to flip over into the “Great UnRetirement/Please-May-I-Have-My-Job-Back” movement way faster than most can imagine
  • Case Capital CEO Kenny Polcari (from video clip): “If we are not in a recession, we certainly are headed there.”

Democrat analyst Laura Fink noted the strong points: Consumer outlook on the future, the April, Jobs report, and US growth is outpacing China for the first time since 1976.

Jobs Discussion

The April Jobs report was not all that strong. On May 6, I commented In April, Jobs Rise by 428,000 but Employment Drops by 353,000

In the past few years, discrepancy between the Household Survey (employment and unemployment) vs the Establishment Survey (Payroll Jobs) always resolved in favor of the Establishment Survey. 

At turning points the opposite happens but when does it show up?

Lagging Indicators

More on Lagging Jobs

Cycle Compression

Adam Replies:Just to clarify: I don’t disagree. That will be the likely progression: hiring freeze> hours cut > layoffs I just expect we’ll progress through it faster than most are currently imagining.”

So, will the Fed hike faster than the #CycleCompression? 

That seems to be what we are really debating!

My guess is yes. A rare policy error in the opposite direction. 

US vs China 

China has been in a lockdown for a month. Ports are just starting to clear. Regardless, alleged relative strength is not strength. 

Mythical Credibility 

Already in Recession

Another Recession Vote 

https://twitter.com/RetirementRight/status/1528370908204777472

Declining strip club attendance is a proposed leading indicator. 

The strip club is sadly a leading indicator and i can promise y’all we r in a recession,” says ReverseCowgirl69.

Exhibits A & B

Retail Sales Easily Beat Expectations, US Treasury Yields Jump in Response

On May 17, I noted Retail Sales Easily Beat Expectations, US Treasury Yields Jump in Response

I thought that ruled out a second-quarter recession. But the presumption was the report accurately reflected sales. 

On May 18, I asked Target Plunges 25%, What About Yesterday’s Big Retail Sales Blowout?

It’s not just Target, but Walmart, Amazon, and Kohls all warning about too much inventory and slowing sales. 

Factor in a housing slowdown.

Recession When?

A recession may have already started. A huge revision in consumer sales coupled with continued weakness in housing could do it. 

Regardless, look for a recession that starts no later than the third-quarter of 2022.

This post originated at MishTalk.Com.

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Hansa Junchun
Hansa Junchun
1 year ago
The strip club is sadly a leading indicator and i can promise y’all we r in a recession,” says ReverseCowgirl69.
You forgot to add “LMAO“. I’m not sure why a stripper is laughing at poor tips. I guess its like people who are shocked into a strange euphoria after a tornado destroys their home.
Billy
Billy
1 year ago
It seems to me that everyone still has money but no one is spending. We are all waiting to see an opportunity. I’m having conversations with my customers and so far it seems that they are being very careful with their money.
Over the past month or so, I don’t recall seeing any lines at stores. The only product that’s hard to get is electric vehicles.
Zardoz
Zardoz
1 year ago
Went to breakfast yesterday at a place that was usually mobbed, especially on a sunny day. Was about 1/4 full, and had the appropriate number of waitstaff for that amount, so this isn’t a new thing for them. Less of a market for $40 breakfasts, I guess.
RonJ
RonJ
1 year ago
“A rare policy error in the opposite direction.”
Policy errors are our strength. Policy error equity or bust.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
1 year ago
we really did get validation of the slowdown with Target, Walmart, Kohl’s saying we’re sitting on way too much inventory, demand is not there.”
Glad someone else noticing inventory build. Been keeping an eye on it since last Summer.
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
I can’t imagine a scenario where Amazon is letting 100k people go while we have record high gas prices not leading to a recession. Maybe if Amazon packaging was spreading monkey pox.
Billy
Billy
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Maybe a scenario where they are being replaced by independent contractors who are hired through a third party company. A scenario where they don’t have to worry about unionizing or paying unemployment benefits.
Like most of their drivers.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
The fall in strip club attendance could also be attributed to the recent widespread use of Apple Airtags by wives and girlfriends monitoring their husbands and boyfriends whereabouts. Hell hath no fury than a woman finding out that you have been to a strip club.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
1 year ago
Prior to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, there were signs that the economy was slowing. Maybe the only thing that kept it going was the war but eventually higher prices killed what was left of the consumer. I never bought into the all the jobs created because most were jobs that were lost in 2020 because of Covid.
ohno
ohno
1 year ago
Does this mean the Fed will start sending stimulus payments to strip clubs and hand out free lap dance vouchers and then declare the economy is just fine?
Dean_70
Dean_70
1 year ago
We are in a transition phase into a recession. There are plenty of excuses why lights are flashing red just about everywhere but that won’t matter in a few months when the Fed freezes the rate hikes. They’ll cut to zero this fall after the markets get crushed even more.
I can’t wait until they come up with next next excuse for the next stimulus bill. Gold will already be much stronger by fall and kicked into overdrive when rates return to zero later this year. The Fed’s balance sheet will post another 90 degree angle on the chart.
Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear
1 year ago
There seems to be a paradox:
Q: How can retailers raise prices while simultaneously hold excess inventory?
A: When much of that inventory is Christmas related that arrived late due to port congestion. Slashing prices won’t clear inventory on items that nobody wants today or is willing to hold for 6 months at discount.
Electronic components still have lead times of 6 to 12 months. Small to mid size companies are going to close because new products won’t get launched in time, or at all. Usually it’s the small to mid size companies that are the leaders in job creation leading the economy out of a recession. This is going to be a long recession without those job producers.
MPO45
MPO45
1 year ago
My long comment just got eaten by moderator. So I will summarize
Lennar Homes Austin, TX:
April 26 – $10k home buyer incentives
May 10 – $15k home buyer incentives
May 17 – $30k home buyer incentives
I linked to data but won’t post it again since that may be the cause of comment moderation but its on Youtube Reventure Consultants community page.
The last time I saw something like this was in 2007. If there is a deep recession we may have started.
davidyjack
davidyjack
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
High (or moderate) mortgage rates are putting solid downward pressure of home sales / home prices. 5.25% on a 30yr mortgage is a dramatically different rate then 3%.
MPO45
MPO45
1 year ago
I am of the view that we have two economies: the working professional class (doctors, lawyers, engineers, IT pros) who never missed a beat. This group probably made more money working from home and saving on expenses like gas, dry cleaning, etc. The other class is the service worker class that has been in quasi recession since covid hit. Low wages, sporadic work, occasional government hand out.
The question now is if the professional class is going to get laid off and I am doubtful that will happen because there are too many boomers that are retiring and are difficult to replace. Airlines have a pilot shortage right now and it takes years to train them. CPAs need four year degree, ongoing education and certification. If 20,000 CPA boomers retire they don’t get replaced over night. This is the case for most working professional jobs – takes years of training and experience. There are still shortages of tech workers across America.
As for real estate, I’ve been keeping an eye on that market because I want rental properties there. The link has some interesting photos of growing incentives.
April 26 – Lennar offers $10k incentive.
May 10 – Lennar offers $15k incentive.
May 17 – Lennar offers $30k incentive.
After seeing that, I am incentivized to buy PUT options on Lennar 😉
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  MPO45
MPO you forget the exceptional pilots and CPAs streaming northwards into America.
Oh, wait…
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
After 14 years of artificial (low) interest rates, what makes anyone think that a ‘neutral rate’ is anything but artificial.
To wit: the natural (neutral) rate of interest “concept itself was originated by the Swedish economist Knut Wicksell.
Wicksell published a study in 1898 defining the natural rate of
interest as the rate that would bring an economy in aggregate price
equilibrium if all lending were done without reference to money
. Wicksell defined the natural rate of interest as “a certain rate of
interest on loans which is neutral in respect to commodity prices and
tends neither to raise nor to lower them”
Call me naive, but my interpretation is the natural rate of interest would be the inflation rate on a basket of commodities? Another Fed cluster fudge with artificial economics.
Mish
Mish
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
There is certainly a neutral.
Only the free market can find it.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  Mish
I subscribe to the ‘interest rate is the price of money’ theory. In a free market, people loan money to others when the compensation justifies their expectations regarding BOTH risk and the opportunity cost of not having access to the money for the duration of the loan. People borrow from others when the cost is justified by the anticipated (expected) benefits of using said money.
I do not understand why ‘commodities’ have a role other than they are priced in money. Should the Fed change interest rates because the price of wheat increases. What about hogs? Fish. Bulk rubber? And of course, services are also a commodity.
I think what we are seeing in the ‘neutral’ discussion from the Fed is a classic sleight of hand, a distraction from the two factors underlying the price of money…INFLATION and the real interest rate (real opportunity cost). Having beaten the free market into artificial submission, it seems the Fed will continue its prior ineptitude, anything but allow free markets to operate.
In the guise of fulfilling its mandate, the Fed engineered a massive wealth transfer, and is now afraid to accept responsibility.
Christoball
Christoball
1 year ago
Many industries are already in recession. With twice the Realtors as listings in many markets, the real estate industry is already there. Throw in declining sales compounding this. Soon more and more real estate will go up for sale with declining prices but this might not increase volume of sales. Sales and prices will just further decline.
Karlmarx
Karlmarx
1 year ago
I’ve always used the restaurant performance index as my canary in the coal mine. But the reverse cowgirl index seems to be a much more interesting approach.
BTW rpi is still very elevated but falling fast. My bet is still for recession more toward the end of 2022 but who know how badly policy makers will reverse cowgirl things up
Jmurr
Jmurr
1 year ago
Reply to  Karlmarx
CNBC should hire reversecowgirl
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
1 year ago
When a bellwether for the whole economy like Salesforce stops hiring that is a tell. The next step is mass layoffs starting. I’ve always thought the whole thing about thr great resignation was overstated. Companies never trusted this economy to hire in earnest because the consumer was weakened.
PreCambrian
PreCambrian
1 year ago
The Fed will start having their meetings at a strip club hoping to improve economic statistics.
ColoradoAccountant
ColoradoAccountant
1 year ago
Reply to  PreCambrian
LOL
RunnerDan
RunnerDan
1 year ago
Reply to  PreCambrian
Then they will just extend their stay at the pre-meeting venue.
Call_Me
Call_Me
1 year ago
Reply to  PreCambrian
Someone in the back of the room calls out: “Fire up the printing press”
Call_Me_Al
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
I will stick with my wild guess prediction of a six month long recession beginning in October 2022.
Which does not change my investment outlook. Which turned out to be surprisingly like Jeremy Grantham and Ray Dalio’s outlook in an hour long interview that I recently watched. Oils, metals and commodities for the next few years, followed by investing in companies that will be part of the solution to global warming and demographic shifts.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
One look at the recent results of Amazon, Target et al, it is clear the downtown is now well underway. It was predictable by the end of Covid restrictions. Companies in all sectors placed orders to rebuild inventory, and to cover pent-up demand, and normal demand–largely based on population growth and replacement rates. The result was massive over-ordering. At the same time, companies began hiring, expecting far greater business in the covid recovery. The result, employee shortages, jobs unfilled, and supply chain issues. It is logically followed by excess inventory issues.
I believe we are in a very volatile boom-bust cycle very unlike the typical business cycle.
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab

Agree. Things are changing. We are into a new cycle now. We are slowing down. High inflation will reduce profits of retailers. Higher interest rates will reduce the value of many companies with high debt on their books. Volatility is high.

Which is why I am invested heavily in oil and gas companies. High energy prices are one of the big contributors to high inflation. These companies are benefiting from these high prices. They have incredible levels of profits and free cash flow as a result. The opposite of other companies.
Higher interest rates have no impact on these companies as they have reduced their debt levels to very low levels (in some cases to zero). It does not affect their future earnings and their current valuations.
Inventories of crude, distillates and gasoline continue to drop. There is no inventory build in this industry. There is a big shortage of diesel in the northeast right now (one small example).
There is massive underinvestment in this industry and has been for almost a decade now. There is no new supply coming on stream anytime soon. And new investment (if it even happens) takes a decade to make a big contribution to supply.
The companies are just beginning to return their massive free cash flow to shareholders now (after first using their FCF to reduce debt for two years). FCF levels of 30%+ are becoming the norm. And many companies are beginning to commit to returning 100% of FCF to shareholders going forward.
I am very comfortable sticking with this investment theme, in spite of your very valid concerns.
Dr_Novaxx
Dr_Novaxx
1 year ago
Your new leading indicator is probably accurate — you know when the immoral folks who live for the moment start cutting spending and worry about losing their jobs, there must be something worth watching there.
Esclaro
Esclaro
1 year ago
Reply to  Dr_Novaxx
Immoral? I think your guy said let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Dr_Novaxx
Dr_Novaxx
1 year ago
Reply to  Esclaro
I’m not recommending anyone be stoned. Nobody’s perfect, least of all me, that’s why we need God’s grace and forgiveness as explained in the Bible. However if we can’t even call out sinful behavior when we see it, we’re in big trouble.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  Dr_Novaxx
I’m always calling out sinful behavior when I see it.
But that’s just my — opinion.
Dr_Novaxx
Dr_Novaxx
1 year ago
Reply to  Lisa_Hooker
You can have more than just an opinion. The Bible provides the only valid standard of morality, right & wrong. Adultery is sin because it is a direct violation of one of the 10 Commandments. Jesus Christ further clarified that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery in his heart.
Roadrunner12
Roadrunner12
1 year ago
Something is very awry when I actually believe reversecowgirl over the economist on the status of the economy.
In any event, Ive always on the watch for any management decisions where I work which would indicate their thoughts on were things are going, layoffs, restructuring, etc. As to the status of the company, they probably will have their most profitable year ever.
About a month ago, the company said to end all discretionary spending for all the production plants in my division. Dont know specific reason as to why? Maybe something, maybe nothing.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
1 year ago
Reply to  Roadrunner12
I see corporate hiring going on that leads me to believe that it is only happening so people that the groups I’m in don’t want to let go of people that have been there longer. I think I will I be proven right in a few months when the last ones that got hired are the first ones to get let go because VPs will get tasked to peanut butter the layoffs in each of their groups.

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