Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says that Israel will take “overall security responsibility” in Gaza “indefinitely” after its war with Hamas. Mish Translation: We ain’t leaving.
No Ceasefire Says Us and Israel, Indefinite Stay, Says Netanyahu
ABC news, other sources similar reports a month into war, Israel envisions an ‘overall security’ role in Gaza indefinitely
Israel will take “overall security responsibility” in Gaza indefinitely after its war with Hamas, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said, the clearest indication yet that Israel plans to maintain control there one month into a conflict that has claimed thousands of lives and leveled swaths of the territory.
In an interview with ABC News that aired late Monday, Netanyahu expressed openness to “little pauses” in the fighting to facilitate delivery of aid to Gaza or the release of some of the more than 240 hostages seized by Hamas in its Oct. 7 attack into Israel that triggered the war.
But he ruled out any general cease-fire without the release of all the hostages. The White House said there was no agreement on U.S. President Joe Biden’s call for a broader humanitarian pause after a phone call between the leaders.
The war has already come at a staggering cost, and Israel unleashed another wave of strikes across the territory Tuesday. Entire city blocks have been reduced to rubble, and around 70% of Gaza’s 2.3 million people have fled their homes, with many heeding Israeli orders to head to the southern part of the besieged territory, which is also being bombed.
The Palestinian death toll has surpassed 10,300, two-thirds of them women and minors, according to the the Health Ministry of the Hamas-run Gaza Strip. More than 2,300 people are missing and believed to be buried under the rubble of destroyed buildings, the ministry said. The ministry does not distinguish between civilians and combatants, and Israel says it has killed thousands of fighters.
What’s Next?
Neither the US Nor Israel Will Say (But I will).
Israel has vowed to remove Hamas from power and crush its military capabilities — but neither Israel nor its main ally, the United States, has said what would come next.
Netanyahu told ABC News that Gaza should be governed by “those who don’t want to continue the way of Hamas,” without elaborating.
Mish Translation
With every war, Israel takes more and more territory. Israel is now in Gaza to stay “indefinitely”. Than means It’s not leaving any time soon, if ever.
US a Part of the Problem
The US has always supported Israel, no matter what Israel does, and that is a big part of the problem.
As I have stated previously, I support a two-state solution. But I have also stated I fail to see how that happens now.
If one steps back from the who did it first blame game, it’s easy to see why Israel is taking this hardline stance after what Hamas has done.
However, killing innocent kids in response to killing innocent kids hardly seems like a solution. The repetitive process just makes more enemies on each side.
Only the genuine bystanders blast both sides.
Free Money
The US’s unwavering support for Israel includes $130 billion in direct aid has been with no strings attached. Free money seldom solves anything, and this is another case in point.
Q: How long will the free money continues?
A: Indefinitely, of course.
The US industrial military complex will settle for nothing less.
Biden’s Democratic Coalition is Splintering Over Israel and the Economy
While pondering what I said above, please note Biden’s Democratic Coalition is Splintering Over Israel and the Economy
Radical political polarization will continue …. indefinitely.
One step back? How about Gaza being blockaded into an open air prison by Israel? Or 80% of Palestinians there being refugees from other areas of Palestine that were ethnically cleansed by Israel? I don’t support any targeting of civilians, but if someone started first, then you should look at the occupier rather than the occupied.
Open air prison accusations are fun as is ethnic cleansing. I’d caution and say those are charged terms and very disputed . Yes often repeated but not necessarily true.
Given that Gaza has a border with Egypt which is controlled by Egypt, Gaza cannot be said to have been, “blockaded into an open-air prison by Israel”.
Mish, you are usually pretty fair with your Israel analysis. The jab at Israel for taking more and more land is just not cool or fair. This is the same area they withdrew from in 2005. They also gave back the Sinai to achieve peace. Would love for you to revise that statement.
I’m shocked by your ahistorical drivel. 1. “With every war, Israel takes more and more territory.. . . ” Israel gained legal control over Judea, Samaria, the Old City, Sinai and Gaza in a defensive war in 1967 against Syria, Egypt and Jordan (“defensive conquest”). International law is silent on the obligation of a defensive conqueror to return territory to an aggressor. Nonetheless, Israel returned Sinai to Egypt in 1982 as part of a peace deal and turned over Gaza to the Palestinian Authority (not its former occupier, Egypt) in 2005 in hopes of buying peace. It has maintained control of the Golan, refusing to cede it to the Syrian dictatorship (except for a sliver), and has maintained military control in Judea and Samaria with the PA handling civil control in certain areas. It annexed Jerusalem. The 1973 war had no material change of territorial control. Nor did the Lebanon conflicts. So at the least, you’re hyperventilating. 2.”The US has always supported Israel, no matter what Israel does, and that is a big part of the problem.” No, the U.S. has pursued its own perceived interests, as it is doing now. It has pressured Israel not to annex Judea and Samaria, to support the hostile PA, to abort this and previous military operations, leaving Islamist and secular enemies to rebuild for another slaughter of Israel’s citizens, and to stand like a good vassal while Iran works for a nuclear bomb (if it doesn’t already have one) while the U.S. funds the mullahs’ nuclear effort (money being fungible). I hope your financial analysis is better anchored in reality.
If its drivel, you say, your drivel makes no point except to show your ignorance and a laughable ego.
Israel does not kill indiscriminately. Hamas does, routinely. That’s all I need to know.
Exactly.
If you throw rocks at my tank I will kill you.
.”However, killing innocent kids in response to killing innocent kids…”
I will finish this sentence: …..”is what Wars are ‘created’ to do: TO KILL INNOCENT WOMEN, CHILDREN, FAMILIES, WEDDING PARTIES, BUSINESSES, RELIGIOUS PEOPLE, HARD-WORKING PEOPLE…” I could go on and on, but MISH, the purpose of Wars is an enduring THRUST TO KILL, MAIM, PUNISH, STARVE, and ELIMINATE PLEBS.
WAR=KILLING=$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for the Military Industrial Complex and this is WHY IT WILL NOT END SOON or EVER in Gaza.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Yeah, this war is going to expand and go on forever. Three cheers for us. The US is boot-strapped to this little county which has (historically) not treated it’s indigenous people (i.e.the Palestinians) with equity. People (in the US) forget, or never knew when the Soviet Union fell in 1991, Israel invited all these Russians to immigrate to Palestine. This essentially doubled the population of this tiny country. Ever since the indigent Palestinians have been systematically red-lined out of their own country since the 1990s, by the Israel government exercising their “benign” eminent domain. The US did nothing to protest or stop this. This current situation has been festering for 30 years, because the US has let the Israelis do anything it wanted. This will be our finest hour.
The unexplored Gaza gas field is offshore from the north half of Gaza.
Advanced discussions were underway to exploit it for the benefit of Palestinians.
If Israel controls the north of Gaza, they might claim the gas field.
Thank you This is the obvious truth and reason for the false flag / land grab now going on over there
Total rubbish. The gas field has at best a few tens of billions worth of gas and likely far less. The cost of the war to Israel is already more than that in money, and then there is the lost and disrupted lives.
There are already agreements dividing up the East Med gas fields including the fields near the Israeli and Lebanese borders as well as for Gaza, Egypt and Cyprus. The only dispute is with the Turks claims.
For the past few years Israel has exported gas to Egypt which uses part to supplement its own gas and most for export. A win-win situation. This current mess has cut production and causing power cuts in Egypt. My relatives in Egypt are not happy with this crap that Hamas caused and neither am I.
Gaza has been attacking Israel civilian population indiscriminately since 2005 with shelling and missiles. Israel practiced a policy of containment for the past several years, while Gaza’s attacks escalated from year to year. Iron Dome bought time but did not catalyze a lasting solution. This approach of containment reached the end of the road, arguably. Very sadly so.
When Israel left, the premise was that Gaza would serve as a test and example for a two state solution. Then, Israel and P.A. were to expand this to larger areas in the Judea and Samaria (Westbank). Oct 7th killed the vision (for many).
Gaza population grew 15x through birth in 75 years. It nearly doubled in since Israel left Gaza to the Palestinians. The organic birth rate of Gaza is not Israel business.
Consequently, Gaza became as densely populated as Singapore. Regrettably, though, the Gaza leadership did not pursue productive economy policies like Singapore. Imagine Singapore would have attacked its neighbors like Gaza is attacking Israel. How long till there would be no Singapore?
Gaza borders used to be open. Free travel to Israel in the 70s and 80s. This stopped with the Intifadas and the missiles.
Hamas is extremely oppressive towards its own population. You can search for video on YouTube showing how “well”(sarc) Hamas treats its own. The fate of minorities, LGBQT rights and women rights under Hamas is awful.
There will be no Palestinians in Gaza by the time B.N. is done. He sacrificed a lot of Jews by turning a blind eye to the attacks so that he could have fake moral high ground to wipe out Gaza. They will raze it to the ground, remove the rubble and the bodies, and settle it with Jews. I like Israelis. Used to work for an Israeli company based out of Kfar Saba. There is no right side in this thing. Palestinians were seen as terrorism breeders. I assert that if American Indians had killed every single European that showed up on their shores that they would, as a people, have a MUCH better lot in life, especially if they had captured European technology and figured out how to either repeat it or defeat it.
There will be Palestinians in Gaza!
The accusation of “sacrificing lots of Jews” is BS. Bibi lost his hold on Israeli politics. Bibi’s base is eroding. He might end up in Israeli Jail for breach of trust and alike.
No it’s the truth It’s what happened Wake up It’s so obvious to anyone who really looks at what happened with an unbiased view
I dunno. Apparently the American Indians are just Siberian emigrants that arrived earlier than the Europeans.
Come back in 100 years and I predict there will still be fighting over the ‘holy land’.
If this and Ukraine dont spiral into ww3 and im not out chasing squirels for dinner with a fish net and it all kinda settles down then im officially done with wasting time on these topics.
A bankrupt regime that cannot protect its own border with Mexico, is somehow going to protect Ukraine’s “borders” that were drawn 70 years ago by Nikita Kruschev in Moscow (not Kiev)? Did anyone think that would work?
Now we are supposed to feign shock and outrage that the bankrupt regime that cannot protect its border with Mexico, also cannot protect a border in the middle east drawn up 80 years ago, in London, by now dead British diplomats?
Its easy to see why these are problems for the political class in Washington. There are hundreds of millions of dollars in bribes, kickbacks and “consulting fees” on the line for both actions.
But how is this a concern for the other 99% of America? Where are our bribe checks? Why should we send our children to die for someone else’s borders, and someone else’s bribes?
Ukraine, Israel, Gaza … who cares? They are not our fights, not our problems, and we can’t afford to do anything even if it was.
I give a crap about Israel / Gaza about as much as Netanyahu cares about the growing pot-hole on my street. What is Hamas going to do about the crime wave in my city? Will Hezbola commit to housing homeless people in the US? Zelensky is constantly whining about what he “demands”, has he ever asked how the taxpayers of the US are doing? Forget about a sincere offer to help us, has Zelensky even pretended to be interested? None of the Harvard alum whining about campus politics have uttered a peep about the decrepit US education system, aka the reason Harvard exists at all.
Friendship is a two way street. If our “friends” aren’t there when we need them, they are not our friends at all. Time to find new friends
Agree both Zelensky and Nutty are ungrateful pieces of you know what They need flushing asap
I am a US isolationist, so not my fight.
That being said, Hamas started a war – using war crimes – for something they can’t win, so if it ends up obliterating their population so be it. The US wasn’t too squeamish with Dresden, Nagasaki, Hiroshima, and carpet bombing whoever/whenever, so anyone in the US tut-tutting Israel going Lemay on their enemies is a bit of a hypocrite. Modern war involves leveling the cities of your enemies – 1940s Japan actually had a minority of the population who supported the war, and the US killed more civilians fire bombing Tokyo than either atomic blast.
Those who say Hamas is justified, then so are the consequences. If you can’t win a war, then don’t start one, but if you say you are justified in starting one, then quit bitching about the results when you’re losing.
The US called for total surrender in WWII – we didn’t negotiate- and killed or hanged most everyone involved in war crimes (a lot of Japanese got off). That is what needs to happen here,and after…not sure, but not my area of expertise. In WWII we occupied for a while and got allied-thinking people to run things, maybe the same model can work here, but maybe not in this region.
Otherwise just keep the US out of it, although it is naive to think that will happen.
thanks for reading my mind. to add, that i’ve thought about the fire bombing of tokyo, kobe, osaka and nagoya in ww2. to be certain, no fault on any of the crews. all heros.
No question, Curtis LeMay was much more effective and efficient than Bomber Harris.
We can’t be “isolationistas” any more now that the world is so interconnected. If a wider war erupts in Gazaisrael, we may well find nuclear missiles headed towards our larger cities here in “isolated” homeland.
George Washington said avoid foreign entanglements. He was one of the best statesmen ever to grace this fair country. The notion that if we don’t start a bigger war then the alternative will be a bigger war is leftist warmonger BS. Let them duke it out and if anyone strikes the USA then unleash on them and wipe them out. As long as we are sure it was not a false flag setup like 911 was.
Captain most so-called terrorist attacks are exactly that Thank you for having your eyes open and seeing reality Most do not
Hamas subway stations are near hospitals, mosques, schools, UNRA, ferris wheel… The IDF destroyed 100 stations. Shifa hospital became a large refugee camp. Women
and children camp inside & outside, b/c they think it’s safe. It isn’t. The IDF blow
up targets nearby. Gaza was dissected. Gaza City was surrounded. US envoy Amos
Hochstein is doing business in Lebanon. There is still hope. Hamas took over Gaza & enslaved the Palestinians to build the tunnels. Within days Gaza might be almost pacified. Israel will have to feed and support 2.2 million Palestinians.
Bibi will not allow Iran to whore around in Gaza. If Nasrallah stays put, Iran was defeated. Got it…
In France the media discourse is that an alliance is needed between ethnic French and Jews to protect the latter, and defend the so-called “Judeo-Christian civilization”. But I remember that in the 80s and 90s what was recommended was an alliance between Jews and Arabs to fight against the ethnic French with racist inclinations (especially the police), all this supported by an entire army Jewish intellectuals who are now enrolling us in “Judeo-Christian civilization”. I’m having trouble finding my way
It’s not confusing at all. In the ’80s and ’90s there was the expectation that modern life would cause a convergence in thought and practice between the civilizations and at the time it looked to be going that way but then the radical Islamists started to gain more and more influence in the Muslin societies turning the clock back. Suddenly veils came back and violence became the norm. The extremely bloody Algerian Civil War started by veterans of the Afghan War coming home to Algeria set the new standard in the Muslim world for shear barbarity. The rebels did the same to their opposants as Hamas did to the Israelis. In the ”80s and ’90s there was hope. Now there is only survival.
There was no hope for the ethnic French. He was the bad guy
Maybe that is finally changing. Need more people singing “Douce France” in the Metro because France is worth it.
Thank you Doug.
…
Cher pays de mon enfance
Bercée de tendre insouciance
Je t’ai gardée dans mon coeur!
RIP Charles Trenet
France could do without both: those who wreck the financial system for their benefit, as well as those who wreck the towns and cities.
With Gaza Cut in Half, Which Hamas May Not Have Seen Coming, Israeli Forces Move In for the Kill
November 6, 2023
Hamas’s terrorist goons probably didn’t see this one coming, but the sliver of Mediterranean territory their rule has ruined steadily over the past 16 years is as of now on a divided strip — because by Monday Israeli soldiers had successfully cut the Gaza Strip in two.
During a press conference on Sunday night, the Israel Defense Forces spokesman, Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari, said, “Today there is north Gaza and south Gaza,” adding that troops led by the Golani Brigade’s reconnaissance unit, which form part of the 36th Division, had “reached the coastline and are holding it.”
The IDF was also striking Hamas terror infrastructure “below ground and above it” on a continuous basis, Admiral Hagari stated, adding that more than “2,500 terrorist targets have been hit in the Strip” since the start of operations in Gaza and that troops were working “to eliminate terrorists in close combat and air strikes on Hamas infrastructure, weapons depots, observation posts and command and control centers in the Strip.”
The IDF is acting to root out Hamas from its mainly underground base of operations in Gaza City through a three-pronged strategy: opening up corridors for the movement of troops, eliminating hidden hives of resistance, and creating temporary outposts — and all of this is occurring inside the Gaza Strip, which it can be said is now the hottest war zone on the planet.
…
https://www.nysun.com/article/with-gaza-cut-in-half-israeli-forces-move-for-the-kill
A two-state solution would not work. The war is not a territorial war. If you look at all of the compromises that Israel was willing to make throughout its history – none were met with any acceptance from the bandits running the Palestinian territories (especially, Gaza). If you look at what happened on Oct 7th as well as any of the prior attacks on Israel, including the Yom Kippur war, attackers are not interested in peace. They are not interested in protecting themselves, in getting land, in saving their children. All of the atrocities are committed with one purpose only – kill as many Jews and destroy Israel as a country. These attackers are not going to stop even if there was a two-state solution.
Unfortunately, trying to make peace with people stuck in the 5th century while using modern diplomacy is bound to fail. It always has, it always will.
There is no good way to resolve this – not for Israel, not for Palestinians. The biggest issue is that even Palestinian refugees who left Israel, remain as refugees in their settlements in other Arab nations. It is so much easier to milk the UN and other organizations, getting money for refugees, than to settle them and accept them as citizens. Money sent to refugees goes to enrich terrorist organizations, to make more rockets, to dig tunnels. Nobody wants peace. Even Egypt has its border completely blocked off and tunnels flooded. Noby wants terrorists. Terrorists do not want peace.
Ariel Sharone got them to agree to this deal. Looked good for Palestine but it wasn’t. As many have stated it turned Gaza into a prison colony. From there it was only a matter of time before the prisoners wanted out but there was no way out. All Israel had to do was sit back and wait for the pissed off prisoners to attack then Israel could pounce on them for good which they are doing now.
Is it going to create massive retribution. Absolutely but there was no other way. A two state was not going to work. Both want the whole thing. Somebody gotta go.
Within a year Israelis will shop in Gaza for tomatoes, oranges and pomegranates .
Attempting to stay indefinitely is going to be a huge mistake.
First and foremost Israel will have to literally feed, clothe and house the entire population. How long do you think they can do that given the people there won’t be able to do any of that for themselves while under occupation. For those who think the world will watch idly as millions are starved to death, think again because that won’t happen (there will be protests and riots in Western streets). The cost will be enormous and the US can’t fund that and Israel isn’t that rich.
Secondly, the rest of the Arab world is watching and Iran among others will be highly unlikely to allow permanent occupation. That means war on multiple fronts for Israel. Even if Iran does nothing militarily, if things get bad enough the rest of the Arab world can exert enormous pressure. Imagine the Arab states stopping the flow of oil from Iran/Iraq/Saudi Arabia etc. How long could Europe, Japan, China etc can go with oil restricted. Not long and that would force them to get involved directly.
The US needs to talk Israel out of this madness. Tell them to hurry up, bomb a bunch more places and then leave and increase border security.
No problem.
The US can borrow/create more dollars to gift to Israel.
The Hatfields and McCoys never wanted my money nor for me to participate in their feud.
Two words keep repeating in my head: “So What?”
Israel killing children is their solution for Gaza. They once secretly gave Devo Provera to Ethiopian Jews to cut back on their baby making. Too dark, I guess.
The whole world is overflowing with warnings of horror, blah, blah, blah. In the end, Israel has a blank check and protective vetos in the UN. Why would anyone believe that decades of scoff law behavior would ever change? They’re protected.
Pelosi and company actually promised that they would protect Israel even if the Capitol was in ruins. Nothing will change, nothing else matters and diplomacy means nada.
Was it Al Capone that said: “The fix is in.”
This is an unexpected death knell for the “rule based international order”, a rather insultingly stupid label for the new imperial project nobody voted for.
Fighting on two fronts, Ukraine and Palestine, and now against the perpetually enraged Arab world could only end badly. Now thanks to unrestrained mass migration, straight in the streets of major Western metropolises.
China couldn’t believe her luck facing such systemically burdened enemy.
After 1948 Gaza is a concentration camp for Israeli slaves.
Israel left Gaza. Look at what happened.
They didn’t leave. They have been involved in everything going in, out, or on in there ever since the supposedly “left.”
They allowed them to work in Israel and the Gazans used that to map the areas to attack and the ways to attack the Israeli civilians.
“They” allowed “them” to pick cotton on designated plantations. As long as “they” got “permission”, of course….
Unless “they” are afforded the full set of individual rights outlined by the US Founders, “they” are reduced to nothing more than chattel slaves. And are hence supposed to, just like the Fathers did, rise up against those who are trampling all over those universal rights.
Are you surprised that the victims of 1948 terrorist attacks want their property back?
The Arabs were the ones that attacked the Israelis and not the other way around. Are you surprised that the Israelis defend themselves?
There is defending oneself and then there is indiscriminate killing.
If a suspect fires at a police office from a crowd, do you think its OK for the police officer to fire back into the crowd and if they kill some innocent people just say ‘oh well, we got the bad guy and there were a few people who just were collateral damage’? There are very specific rules around that to prevent this kind of thing happening because it’s been deemed ‘not OK to do’. In war, these are called war crimes.
That’s essentially what’s happening right now with the indiscriminate bombing where Israel says hey, we got a few Hamas and a few civilians happened to get it too because they were there and that’s just unfortunate collateral damage, no big deal.
You are confusing crowd control with war. When a population supports the war-makers either through acts or by inaction they become enablers of the war-makers. International law recognizes the difference. If you enable you cannot expect to be immune to the consequences of war and to believe otherwise is either naive like many of the woke, or to be dishonest like Hamas.
Your personal beliefs and attempts at logic do not match with international law. Hamas committed the first sins by not only illegally using their own citizens as human shields but also by illegally and wantonly attacking Israel non-combatants on Oct 7th.
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The dumb bombs of WW2 represented “indiscriminate killing” and didn’t raise an eyebrow… The guided missiles hitting Gaza, especially when preceded with warnings by the IDF, are very discriminatory. Israel indisputably cares more about Palestinian lives than Hamas does. Hamas built 300 miles of tunnels for themselves to shelter in, and failed to build a single underground bunker for the people.
Remember what happened October the 7th? Well that terrorism is what Israel was built upon in 1948: entering villages, killing random people, then spreading rumors in the next villages “you are next” until they could take them over. So actually the Arabs that “attacked the Israelis” were defending their brothers and not the other way around.
After 1948 all of the Arab countries have expelled most of their formerly large Jewish populations, who mostly resettled in Israel.
Similarly, it should then be acceptable for Israel to expel the Palestinians in Gaza (at least) who can then be resettled on the old properties in Arab countries that had been taken from Jews.
Agree?
Agree, there is a synagogue just a few doors down from the dental surgery that I’ve had to use a few times. It’s in Heliopolis in Cairo. The date above the door has 1934 and I’ve never seen it in use. There are no Jews left as they were mostly expelled or driven out and their properties seized by the government. So it is not unexpected that the children and grandchildren of those expelled to be living in Israel and if there is a population transfer then the countries that expelled the Jews can settle the Gazans.
Also something that is never mentioned is that there is (or was) a Jewish Quarter in Gaza and the Arabs were just fine with expelling the Jews from there all those years ago but now the lefties scream that expelling the Arabs occupying that Jewish Quarter is wrong. The irony.
The Gazans are the ancient Philistines. They had a bad reputation three thousand years ago and have kept that reputation throughout the ages.
In the bible it reads that the Philistines created beautiful cities like Jericho, complete with a wall around it. And then some God with a racial preference needed to let his favorite people go walk 7 rounds around it and such. Actually my sympathy is with the builders.
The Philistines were the inhabitants of Gaza and were not in the central uplands. You are confusing them with the Samaritans who did live in the uplands in ancient times.
We have to be clear:
Israel has offered and accepted peace deals that included a two state solution. Without exception, the other side has rejected it and said, in very public statements, that nothing less than the total annhilation of every Jew would allow them to settle the dispute.
What choice does Israel have? I believe they do not want this, but have been forced to by the incessant militants who keep coming from Gaza to kill Jews.
Israel would leave Gaza alone if Gaza would leave Israel alone.
Yeah sure and Osama Bin Laden set the charges too right
Nutty-yahoo has clearly stated all along he was trying to destroy the 2 state solution. The responsibility lies with him and his government of crooks, liars, religious nuts and thieves.
Would you want a “state” next to you that wants your annihilation?
Of course not. And if it’s me or them, it’s going to be me.
The way of the world, which is not a nice place.
Use your head.
Countries have existed next to each other who wanted the others annihilation since the beginning of time. It doesn’t mean you need to annihilate the other first.
Exactly
They’re “forced to” by having degenerated into enshrining a government wholly dependent on handing “free” land to opportunistic “settlers” who otherwise couldn’t hack it in the rather competitive pressure cooker that is Israeli society.
A two state ’67 solution would require evacuating 700,000+, and growing, Israelis from the West Bank. All of whom will be screeching about more useful Israelis having to “make them whole” for their “losses.” At some point, getting closer every day, Israel will have to do so either way. But even doing that, may turn out to be too little too late, the way things are now unfolding.
Golda Meir’s secret weapon, is turned around now. It’s the Palestinians who have nowhere to go. Jews, at least the ones Israel is critically dependent on for keeping its head above ever rising water, mostly have plenty of other places to go. And more and more of them are availing themselves of that option. Sticking around is just not worth it anymore, when what was supposed to be a promised land, instead turns out to have devolved into little more than a cancer, feeding on not only everyone around, but increasingly also itself.
The only Hail Mary I can think of which may enable Israel to stick around long term, involves both Two State ’67 borders, AND some serious “rent” paid to Palestinians going forward for a long, long time. Enough of a wash of wealth and comforts, and along with that enough to lose; just about may be what’s indicated, in order for them to tone down their quest for revenge and restitution for long enough that current war ethos’ and “terror” group allegiances are mostly forgotten.
Interesting there was no push for a Palestinian state when Egypt controlled Gaza and Jordan controlled the West Bank between 1948 and 1967. Maybe because they are all Arabs? Jordan is ruled by the Hashemites who were installed by the British. Lots of land there…
It’s because noone particularly bothered them. Noone systematically chased them off their land and livelihood. Noone blockaded their sea routes. Noone fenced them in, and forced them to “apply” to some nothing for “permission” to travel. Etc., etc. I’m sure the Egyptian government were scum too. They were politicians and “rulers” after all.
It’s not some weird, highly localised, genetic anomaly that causes the Arabs who happened to live in Palestine, to be so much more annoyed with Israel, than all other Arabs are. It’s not because “Palestinian” Arabs just happen to be so much more “antisemitic” than Egyptian ones. Instead, they’re just being harassed.
For any government to have any legitimacy, it needs to respect those it claims to govern’s fundamental individual rights. ALL those rights. As elaborated by the US founders. Gazans not being able to travel freely; not being able to trade freely; not being able anything freely (yes up to and including, as per the US Founders, own and bear arms freely)…… violates all that.
People, all people, anywhere, at all times, are supposed to have revolutions aimed at ridding themselves of any”government” preventing them from fully, and without restriction, enjoying all those rights. It was a good and noble thing when Americans did so (and an insult when they stopped doing so), and it is a good thing when anyone else does so. including “Palestinians.”
Now, it may well be possible that such basic, fundamental, universal freedoms is simply not compatible with a jewish state in Palestine. If that turns out to be true, that’s kind of a bummer. There are a lot of good to be said about what the Israelis have been able to accomplish over a relatively short timespan. But if basic, God given, universal freedoms are incompatible with a jewish state in Palestine; it’s not basic, God given, universal freedoms which needs to go. Hence, until the jewish state does stop interfering in others’ unconstrained ability to enjoy those freedoms, it will never be those trampled-on “others” who are ultimately to blame for any side effect of them trying to resist the trampling.
What a bizarre claim – that Gazans have the same rights as US citizens (and very few others) do.
There are eleven other countries that are smaller in size than Gaza… Their citizens’ rights to “travel freely” is determined by their ability to get a passport from their country and a visa from others – the same as Gaza.
Good luck insisting on a right to own and bear arms in any European country, as well as here in Australia….
Also, the PLA has rejected the concept of a 2-state solution, as has Hamas and Hezbollah. Moreover, “A poll published in 2021 by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research revealed that 39% of Palestinians support “the two-state solution” and 59% are opposed.”
While Israeli governments have three times accepted and
initiated a two-state solution (TSS), those offers have been rejected by the
oppositions and met with continuing violence.
Practically, it is difficult to envision how such a
situation would work, given the extent of a close border with hostile neighbors
who have shown quite recently what they will do given the chance.
It is significant that none of the Arab states (not Egypt, not Jordan, not Saudi Arabia) will accept the Arab people of the West Bank or Gaza given their Marxist political approach and resort to violent revolution. In fact, so hostile are the ‘Palestinian’s’ to other Arab nations’ leaders, that they were previously ejected from Jordan in 1970 after attempting to assassinate King Hussein (https://www.thoughtco.com/black-september-jordanian-plo-civil-war-2353168); Egypt acted likewise after threats from the PLO in the 1980s (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1987-04-30-mn-2874-story.html). This recently (October 16, 2023):
“Jordan’s King Abdullah II gave a similar message a day earlier, saying, “No refugees in Jordan, no refugees in Egypt.”
The Israelis have stated and shown in the past a willingness to live with the Arabs, but not next to political factions of Hamas and Hezbollah who actively oppose and attack Isreal’s existence. the surveys of overall ‘Palestinian’ feelings noted above suggests that the hostility would remain under new political leadership.
I am not sure of the best solution, but it does not appear that TSS is a viable answer.
And here I’ve always believed that the Israelis adamantly refused to even entertain any proposal that included the right of return for displaced Palestinians.
Radical Polarization has been occurring in the Muslim world for over a thousand years so nothing is new in that area. It’s not a new development and has little to do with the modern world. It’s a feature and not a bug so we have to manage it like we and other civilizations have for a thousand years or so.
Lol
RAFO Fredo.
Why should Israel leave Gaza when it’s their land to begin with? They gave it to Palestine and Palestine used it to attack Israel.
What choice does Israel have? Their enemy does not believe the country should exit. As such, it is hard to negotiate.
Yeah sure and I suppose the land grab has nothing to do with the extensive natural gas deposits offshore Gaza And I’ve got a bridge to sell you too Denny
Yeah, who cares. If the “Palestinians” have the power, then take it back.
But don’t whine when you get obliterated from existence.
The world goes to the powerful, and that’s the way it is.
So in the same vein, Israel should not be whining when their people are being killed then?
Attempting to obliterate the Palestinians from existence is genocide. If that’s the plan then Israel needs to be put down harshly.
You refuse to use the dictionary definition of gendercide, which shows you are just trying to trigger people with inaccurate langue and words.
See my related post here:
https://mishtalk.com/politics/bidens-democratic-coalition-is-splintering-over-israel-and-the-economy/
Israel is not wasting time “whining” – they’re fixing the problem.
Given that the population of Gaza has just about tripled in the last 30 years, the Israelis are spectacularly inept at their supposed attempt at genocide….
Actually, Isreal is a net exporter of natural gas, having developed and expanded its own production on offshore deposits in its own territorial waters. The Leviathan gas field is estimated to have sufficient gas to meet domestic needs for 40 years, with an estiamted 22 trillion cubic feet in recoverable gas. The Gaza Marine area, which has only 1 trillion cf, has lain fallow since 1999 and provides no significant resources that would interest Isreal.
see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan_gas_field
Spoken like a true Rothshild criminal
Sounds like the only response you have to DO50 is not to attack his facts but to infer that he is Rothschild puppet. There is fuck all gas off Gaza. It won’t even be enough to meet Gaza’s energy needs and if it is exported it will just be a rounding error compared to other gas exporting nations.
At the moment, Israel is an occupier of Palestinian territory. They have been since the 6 day war. No one should be surprised when people who are being occupied fight back.
There has never been a sovereign nation called “Palestine”
The establishment of Israel was the de-colonialising of the area as it displaced the British