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Joe Biden vs Joe Biden on Tariffs, a Green Trade War Is Underway

Joe Biden’s changing story of tariffs would be funny if it was not so damaging. The president announced huge new tariffs today.

The Above Tweet was from June 11, 2019.

Today, president Biden blasted China with huge new tariffs.

Fact Sheet

Please consider today’s Fact Sheet Announcement: President Biden Takes Action to Protect American Workers and Businesses from China’s Unfair Trade Practices

President Biden’s economic plan is supporting investments and creating good jobs in key sectors that are vital for America’s economic future and national security. China’s unfair trade practices concerning technology transfer, intellectual property, and innovation are threatening American businesses and workers. China is also flooding global markets with artificially low-priced exports. In response to China’s unfair trade practices and to counteract the resulting harms, today, President Biden is directing his Trade Representative to increase tariffs under Section 301 of the Trade Act of 1974 on $18 billion of imports from China to protect American workers and businesses.

Biden Increases Trump Tariffs by 60 Percent

Lumber Tariffs

https://twitter.com/rev_cap/status/1790498275922960526

Cheaper Houses? Who Needs Em?

Lumber Flashback

Is Canada a National Security Threat?

Easy to Be Tough

Understanding the Basics

What About Mattresses?

That’s a good question. For the answer, please see Having Trouble Sleeping? Can You Afford a New Mattress?

Protectionists want 745% tariffs on mattresses. Prepare to pay much more despite having the highest prices in the world already.

I Wonder What These People Are Saying Today
Kurt Eichenwald on DimWit Don

Ted Lieu Reality Check

Aaron Rupar

My Position is Clear

I was against tariffs then, and I am against them now.

MishTalk Flashback March 2, 2018: Trump Tweets “Trade Wars are Good and Easy to Win”

It’s impossible to make a reasonable case there is a national security threat over steel. Our imports come from Canada, not China!

Steel Glut a Good Thing!

By the way, a glut of steel is a good thing. It lowers costs and makes thing more affordable.

Standards of living rise when products are more easily affordable!

Trade Wars Not Winnable

Those who say trade wars are winnable aren’t thinking, they’re spouting nonsense.

Economic Madness

The bottom line is simple: If its good for the consumer, it’s good policy. Instead, Trump is promoting trade wars that mathematically cannot be won.

Trump Clueless About Trade

My position has been consistent. Terrible trade policies are terrible trade policies, no matter who does them.

For a mathematical explanation of trade deficits, please see Trump’s Tariffs Show He’s “Clueless About Trade”.

Also consider Disputing Trump’s NAFTA “Catastrophe” with Pictures: What’s the True Source of Trade Imbalances?

Big Green Trade War Is Underway

In case you missed it, please see my post earlier today BYD Unveils the “Shark” a Plug-in Hybrid Pickup Truck Built in Mexico

Also see Biden Wants EVs so Badly That He Will Quadruple Tariffs on Them

Astute readers will immediately notice the title of this post makes no sense. It’s not supposed to. But it is exactly what President Biden is doing.

A big green trade war has started. The result will be higher prices for cars, solar panels, even lumber, and housing.

It Trump was clueless, what does that make Biden who took Trump’s policies and escalated them?

Finally, what are the big Biden fans saying now?

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This post originated on MishTalk.Com

Thanks for Tuning In!

Mish

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80 Comments
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Joie
Joie
2 years ago

Just tell me that CCP Steel is not manufactured using the same quality controls overseeing my appliances purchased these days. A corroded disposal my family can survive. A dishwasher that must be run twice – I can swear at. A corroded bridge? Maybe not – There are some costs being ignored.

Stuki Moi
Stuki Moi
2 years ago

Steel Glut a Good Thing!
By the way, a glut of steel is a good thing. It lowers costs and makes thing more affordable.
Standards of living rise when products are more easily affordable!”

Ditto an Anything glut.

The only thing a glut of is not beneficial, is money. Since all that does is raise prices of everything else. Money’s value derives from its scarcity.

Of course, in today’s US: Printing presses producing a glut of money, is the only thing we are able to produce…..

Ockham's Razor
Ockham's Razor
2 years ago

China doesn’t want free trade, it wants dumping.
Ford or GM can’t sell freely in China.

rinky stingpiece
rinky stingpiece
2 years ago

Surely the idea behind tariffs is to make foreign goods and services a little bit more expensive than domestic goods and services, and hence to redirect the flow of revenue away from foreign companies, and to domestic companies? Oh and to steer the economy in a particular direction.

Stuki Moi
Stuki Moi
2 years ago

“Surely the idea behind tariffs is to make foreign goods and services a little bit more expensive than domestic goods and services, and hence to redirect the flow of revenue away from foreign companies, and to domestic companies?”

And by making goods more expensive, to hence make production of any other good in the US more expensive. And hence noncompetitive. Which then “requires” “more tarriffs”, according to the logically challenged simpletons falling for the nonsense in the first place.

Despite that:
For the seemingly precious few with the aptitude required to pass Anything-at-all 101: By 102 a logically and economically valid counter argument can be presented: Importing goods is not cost free to government/society. It does require border controls, if for no other reason than just to ensure inbound containers aren’t stuffed full of hair-triggered warhead and/or foreign mercenaries. Forcing general “taxpayers” to pick up the tab for such border controls, as opposed to those directly choosing to import rather than local build, is an indirect subsidy of importing. So it’s not an inevitably crime against efficiency to impose a small’ish, entirely general, charge/tariff on all goods crossing the border inbound. Such a general tariff is not a plainly illegitimate means of funding government. As opposed to such insults-to-all-and-any-intellect as income and sales taxes etc.

Regardless: Such a legitimate tariff, has nothing in common with the entirely arbitrary nonsense that Twiddle-Twump and Twiddle-Chump is falling over themselves cheering for.

Last edited 2 years ago by Stuki Moi
Rjohnson
Rjohnson
2 years ago

Oh joy high steel prices will def help me out. Biden you’re a worthless jackass!

RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago

What is the ulterior motivation? What is the back story of what is really going on? We are told narratives. The public is being played to benefit an agenda. What is the agenda behind the trade war? We don’t know what is going on in secret behind closed doors.

RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ

The WHO Pandemic Treaty and IHR amendments are supposed to be voted on very soon. Dr. Meryl Nass said that countries are supposed to have 4 months to review the final documents before voting, but the latest version doesn’t allow that to occur by the end of the month. There is also a vote in September at the UN, on whether to give the Secretary General the power to declare global emergencies. What is the agenda and ulterior motive behind these motions? Our lives could change dramatically if these votes pass.

Avery2
Avery2
2 years ago

Tariffs are paid by people who buy stuff subject to tariffs.

Thetenyear
Thetenyear
2 years ago

Biden’s 2019 tweet explains why Bidenomics is such an utter failure. He is following the sage wisdom of Target cashiers.

rinky stingpiece
rinky stingpiece
2 years ago
Reply to  Thetenyear

You’re assuming that he even knows what Twitter is, and you assume he wrote the tweet.

Thetenyear
Thetenyear
2 years ago

True! 2019 Joe Biden makes 2024 Joe Biden seem competent. Which ain’t saying much.

Alex
Alex
2 years ago

The BRICS and the dollar demise? Slow at first, then all at once….

https://www.unz.com/pescobar/de-dollarization-bombshell/

rinky stingpiece
rinky stingpiece
2 years ago
Reply to  Alex

How many Yuan have you converted your USD savings into so far then?

Alex
Alex
2 years ago

The problem is America no long makes much. Jobs, know-how and gumption have all been exported to other countries so Wall Street can make a killing. But this is temporary and credit card prosperity. And Americans have become fat, lazy and stupid.

https://youtu.be/s-kdRdzxdZQ?feature=shared

DAVID J CASTELLI
DAVID J CASTELLI
2 years ago
Reply to  Alex

many. Most? Not all!

The Dude Abides
The Dude Abides
2 years ago
Reply to  Alex

Include artillery shells in that mix, apparently.

Richard F
Richard F
2 years ago

Am not so much interested in what Tariffs do but why now and who benefits a better question.

Massive unpayable consumer debt has arisen by people borrowing money to buy product from overseas. Aka US Trade deficit. Bankers should be more then a little concerned how that debt is supposed to be sustainable. Job wages have not increased fast enough to keep up with consumption spending patterns.

As Tariffs now becoming Public policy this is an attempt to shore up the Banking system. Not much of another way to read it. Consumer is Tapped out and large segment of it is starting to recoil from spending.
That even US government is now aware that Huston we have a problem, should be taken as that Fire Siren going off moment.

As always, Cure for high prices is high prices. Even well to do are hitting the Brakes.

US is no longer able to provide purchasing power to the rest of World is come home to roost. That was the whole basis for globalization and US Navy would ensure maritime trade routes.

There was implicit in all that has occurred regarding Globalization, that Debt levels was able to be expanded to infinity and beyond. Debt has achieved infinity and beyond accruement.

Huston we have a problem.

Richard F
Richard F
2 years ago
Reply to  Richard F

Jay Powell does not have the cushion that Bernanke did. This time around there is only inflation as consequence of money printing.

Market keeps up momentum Trade based upon print it baby cakes. Will continue to take other side of that Trade as US Debt levels say otherwise.

rinky stingpiece
rinky stingpiece
2 years ago
Reply to  Richard F

Except that there is no money printing, quite the opposite: credit/moneysupply is contracting.

Richard F
Richard F
2 years ago

Market is trading notion that QT is over and Fed is waiting for an excuse to loosen once again. Powell already wearing his jacket made of Dove Feathers as Fed announced they were cutting back on rate of QT..
Money contracting primarily due to contraction in Commercial Bank lending.

Retail sales weak this morning shows consumer on the ropes. US consumption unable to support excess global production capacity any longer.

All I was pointing out was Tariffs are policy actions taken after Barn is on fire.
That it will disrupt Global Trade flows when implemented is for certain.

US as Reserve currency under great pressure, Tariffs not just a election year Political ploy imo.

Since onset of globalist system goes back to Nixon, this is a major paradigm shift occurring.

Richard F
Richard F
2 years ago
Reply to  Richard F

Would add, just from all the posts on Housing and impact of price rises there are plenty of people getting shut out of the economy.
As the generation with assets retires how in the world are those who follow going to pick up any slack getting produced?
The economic system is in deep trouble. So by choice will continue to lessen exposure to a debt based economy that has run its course

Webej
Webej
2 years ago

Whenever I read learned considerations of money, I have to think back to my daughter, then 3, who, in riposte to my statement that we don’t have enough money, quipped:

Why don’t you just go to the store and buy some more?

Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  Webej

When very young, my kids thought that if you needed money to buy something you just took it out of the ATM.

Tater
Tater
2 years ago
Reply to  Webej

She has a bright future as a politician!
;p

Webej
Webej
2 years ago

I have the choice between two grocery supermarkets at walking distance.

We always go the one that has artificially low prices and unfair trade practices.

rinky stingpiece
rinky stingpiece
2 years ago
Reply to  Webej

I tend to go to the one(s) with the best quality stuff, least chemicals, best flavour etc…

Tortoise
Tortoise
2 years ago

The escalation in tariffs is entirely the fault of Trump. He started all of this in 2018 and now he wants to slap a 10% or higher tariff on ALL imports from EVERY country. Trump is even bragging that he will double or triple the new Biden tariffs if he wins in Nov. This is a disaster.

Fast Eddy
Fast Eddy
2 years ago

China Considers Government Buying of Unsold Homes to Save Property Market

In an ambitious effort to revive the struggling property market, China is considering a proposal for local governments to purchase millions of unsold homes across the country, according to a report by Bloomberg.

https://www.firstpost.com/world/china-considers-buying-unsold-homes-to-revive-property-market-13771017.html

Awesome idea!!! Everything will be fixed

Last edited 2 years ago by Fast Eddy
rinky stingpiece
rinky stingpiece
2 years ago
Reply to  Fast Eddy

Surely in Communism, the government owns everything/everyone already anyway?! If the CCP buys things from itself, does it haggle to get the lowest price to pay; or haggle to get the highest price to sell? How does pretend capitalism work in a Communist police state?

john smith the third
john smith the third
2 years ago

Honestly, if China wants to give everyone free stuff, then people shouldn’t say no. It’s clearly in your interest to get stuff for free. You get to save money which you can invest in another productive capacity if you want, or spend it on something else. Hell, if China made and gave everything for free, you can then lend them the money you saved, because they will clearly have a lot of debt then.

Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago

If someone gives you something for free, don’t you think that they might have an ulterior motive that doesn’t include your welfare?

rinky stingpiece
rinky stingpiece
2 years ago

If you think everything is (or can be free) I have a perpetual motion machine to sell you.

Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago

Both parties are for tariffs now for the simple reason that free trade was tried for decades and it didn’t work out for us although it worked great for China. Free Trade did replace good-paying jobs manufacturing jobs with minimum-wage jobs installing what used to be made by us with what is now made in China.

Free Trade Theory needs a perfectly spherical cow, world peace and for everybody to follow the same rules in good faith for it to work. That is not the world we live in.

TexasTim65
TexasTim65
2 years ago
Reply to  Doug78

I disagree.

Free trade raised everyone’s standard of living because we got a lot more goods and services for cheaper prices. You think everyone would be walking around with iPhones and looking at 80 inch flat screens if they had to be made here?

The losers were unions or other oligopoly industries which prior to free trade charged whatever they wanted to artificially raise their own standard of living at the expense of the general population.

Free trade allowed the needs of the many to outweigh the needs of the few.

rinky stingpiece
rinky stingpiece
2 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65

How free is free trade though? If you study about the development of East Asia economies post war, places like Japan and Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, had very state-directed economies, and plenty of price fixing and oligarchic behaviour.

Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65

Free trade rose Chinese standards of living but not ours considering that the median inflation-adjusted wage has been stagnating for decades now.

“Free trade allowed the needs of the many to outweigh the needs of the few.”

That statement should be turned around. Look at how wealth has been getting more and more concentrated into an increasing narrow and wealthier class. The needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many now. Their wealth was made by exporting productive capacity and expertise to other countries and then importing those products back into the US and pocketing the difference. The Chinese did well. The financial and owners did well. Mainstreet got devastated and has still not recovered.

The so-called “Free Trade” has been proven very flawed. Even the name is just a marketing ploy and I am glad that it is being relegated into the dustbin of history.

TexasTim65
TexasTim65
2 years ago
Reply to  Doug78

Are you sure our standards haven’t risen?

Everyone is walking around with cell phones that have amazing computing performance. 70+ inch TV screens are dime a dozen. Cars have incredible features (safety and entertainment wise). We’ve never had more plentiful food and food choices. I can order practically anything online and have it delivered over night compared to waiting weeks or months. I compare my life today to what it was in the early 90s when free trade was just coming into vogue and I’m VASTLY better off.

Sure, the rich also got richer. But the middle class and poor also have much better standards of living than they had in the 90s and prior decades. It’s a case of a rising tide lifting all boats (rich, middle class and poor alike).

Last edited 2 years ago by TexasTim65
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65

Yes you can afford a telephone (but not an iPhone made in China) but you can’t afford a house. You can’t afford to have children either but you can afford a smart phone or a flatscreen TV. Good thing you can pay them on credit. Things are just dandy. Do you not know any young people and talk to them about their problems? Even Mish is saying that the young are falling behind. He puts it all on the Fed but frankly the stupidity of “free trade” policies is way more to blame. I grew up when the rust belt was starting and saw the devastation bad policies not only made but encouraged. It was done deliberately, systematically and the justification was “free trade”. I suppose you don’t know that in the beginning those telephones were made in the US. The TVs no but they came later in the cycle when the industry and knowledge had already been transferred overseas but hey, you got an iPhone that strangely enough costs a lot of money to buy so where are the savings made by making them in China? They are in Apple’s margins so there was no saving for the consumer but boy did the shareholders make out like bandits. Now management is buying back shares with the money made from gouging you on price and you love it.

TexasTim65
TexasTim65
2 years ago
Reply to  Doug78

So your answer is tariffs. The iPhone that used to cost 1000 will now cost 2000. Great, so fewer iPhones will be sold because anyone who can’t afford a 2K iPhone won’t get one. So instead of selling say 1 million iPhones, they will sell say 300 or 400K phones. Sure, a few people will get nice paying jobs, maybe 2-3 thousand total (most of it is automated and they can do that in small towns where they can pay 15 / hr too). Meanwhile 600 or 700K people don’t get new phones because the guy flipping burgers or working at 7/11 ain’t getting paid any more.

Homes are expensive because of regulations. You can’t build a 1960s home today because it doesn’t meet code. So it costs 2x as much. And after your tariffs it’s going to cost 2.5x as much and if no one can afford that, guess what, home builders won’t build homes because they sure as hell aren’t going to take a loss. The only way homes get cheaper is if standards are relaxed AND we get cheaper materials because no way are construction workers going to take a pay cut unless we allow illegal immigration labor.

The rust belt was always doomed. The brief period it shined was because the US was the only country making anything after WWII and there were only 3 car companies, 1-2 steel companies etc and they were unionized. So those working for those companies made bank because they ripped off everyone else so they had a great standard of living at everyone else’s expense. But once everyone else caught up, they were priced out which is why the rust belt is dead. Its only ever coming back if labor costs become non-unionized. The last thing I want to do is over pay for new cars or steel just so some union guy in the rust belt can make a high standard of living. Let them compete in the labor market the same way I do.

rinky stingpiece
rinky stingpiece
2 years ago
Reply to  Doug78

If China is trying to divest of USD (e.g.: sell US bonds) to defend it’s currency against the USD, surely it would be buying stuff in USD to get rid of the currency as well, rather than selling stuff to get more USD? The US doesn’t need Yuan, especially when it’s CCP controlled fake currency. The justification for tariffs is to prevent China from selling too much stuff and getting even more USD. I guess that’s why China is trying to sell stuff to the EU to get more Euros instead. Who wants to have a weakening currency like Yuan?

Last edited 2 years ago by rinky stingpiece
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago

Xi is here in Europe trying to keep Europe from doing the same but he will fail.

Fast Bear
Fast Bear
2 years ago

I’ll just leave these here:

How did tariffs cause the Great Depression?
It raised the price of imports to the point that they became unaffordable for all but the wealthy, and it dramatically decreased the amount of exported goods, thus contributing to bank failures, particularly in agricultural regions.

The Smoot-Hawley Act increased tariffs on foreign imports to the U.S. by about 20%. At least 25 countries responded by increasing their own tariffs on American goods. Global trade plummeted, contributing to the ill effects of the Great Depression.

Last edited 2 years ago by Fast Bear
rinky stingpiece
rinky stingpiece
2 years ago
Reply to  Fast Bear

The raising of tariffs seems to be either ideological or a sign of a faltering economy… either that, or preparations for potential war. China is very much in a bad situation, if you think your government intervention in the economy and in your life is bad, you ain’t seen nothin’ like the CCP.

fast bear
fast bear
2 years ago

China is kicking ass. The one issue they have, are extra empty houses that were paid for with debt. But? That housing investment allowed them to jump start a manufacturing economy, that now makes everything the WORLD BUYS. Every little shop in the Solomon Islands and in Congo sells 90% + China goods.

8 billion people have houses filled with Chinese goods and electronics.

They will ameliorate the housing debt with a fraction of the MFG income over 20 years.

I work with companies in China. Scrappy! What ever it is that needs creating they get it done in 5 times faster than in the the West and for 1/4 the cost.

They will never be defeated in this regard.

I find people have been brainwashed into thinking China is collapsing and the US is resurgent. Absurd, look around you.

Russia for raw materials, China the hight tech workshop, (eventually Germany engineering will break free of the diabolical plan to destroy it) and Africa will be the source of simple assembly labor.
Deluded, corrupt, murderous, pathetic, ignorant, illiterate and bankrupt America will descend further into decrepitude.

The US has no way of paying off its debt while China does.

China is miles ahead of India is every respect. Hindus are somewhat insane and its hard to say if that disorganized cacophony of ebullient rape and street pooping madness will ever achieve MODERNITY and development linearity.

Increasingly juvenile America, where it seems as though they gave drivers licenses to 7 year olds.

That’s what the future looks like.

babelthuap
babelthuap
2 years ago

I don’t do EV or solar and like Mish stated, steel comes down with the maple syrup along with AL by and large. There is no logic behind tariffs but these tariffs do have much comedic styling behind them. Whoever came up with this for Biden started a comedy war. If the CCP comes back with a tariff on chop sticks though we lose.

Ursel Doran
Ursel Doran
2 years ago

Our Debt based economy stats you will see nowhere else. 
The free-money era is over.   
That is what the overall household debt picture shows.”
https://wolfstreet.com/2024/05/14/household-debt-delinquencies-collections-and-bankruptcies-the-free-money-era-is-over-for-our-not-so-drunken-sailors/

rinky stingpiece
rinky stingpiece
2 years ago
Reply to  Ursel Doran

All those charts show is that the situation is not as bad as the GFC, but that it is starting to worsen, but it really hasn’t got anywhere near bad enough yet. The recession has been waiting for Godot. Many graphs suggest it, but it never quite appears.

Greg
Greg
2 years ago

the theory of free trade benefiting all – you make what you do best; we make…
only works w fully employed economies
otherwise you’re just shipping jobs and wealth overseas

Willie Nelson II
Willie Nelson II
2 years ago

Biden, Trump (and Mish) are all generals fighting the last war with the last war technology.

If you are living off past bribes and taxpayer largess, or a real estate guy living off past deals (or a Joe-Q-Public retiree living on a fixed income)… then lower import prices are good and tariffs are bad.

If you are a college grad with tens or hundreds of thousands in debt, trying to pay that debt with jobs (plural) at Starbucks, pizza delivery and Uber — then cheap imported TVs are not important and taxing foreign trade sounds better than taxes on yourself.

Neither tariffs nor cheap imports will provide high quality jobs to pay taxes and all the debts that Biden, Trump and Mish are leaving behind. not to mention supporting one’s self and (gulp) a house and a family.

Overpriced college credentials that certify one’s ability to confuse boys and girls and to whine incessantly about the patriarchy are useless…. doubly so when you apply to deliver pizza.

Good paying jobs that make use of advanced education will not come from cheap imports or from tariffs.

I assume politicians are going to muddy the issue and resort to “tried and true higher taxes”…. was hoping for something more nuanced from the private sector. Both tariffs and cheap imports miss the bigger picture

Last edited 2 years ago by Willie Nelson II
Willie Nelson II
Willie Nelson II
2 years ago

And if you are a politician, tariffs are good because you collect bribes from corporations and citizens looking to influence the list of what gets tariffs and what does not.

Gavin Newsome loves $20 minimum wage for the chumps, but his “friend” CEO of Panera Bread Company donated to “Newsome’s campaign”
Now the minimum wage is $20 except if your company bakes bread and has a name starting with the letter “P”

Pay a tariff to the Treasury so the politicians can spend it to buy votes for themselves, or else pay a bribe to an individual politician so they can spend it on themselves directly.

if you are a common citizen, the duty-free stuff will cut your pay while the tariff stuff costs too much. Now stop day dreaming and deliver more pizza!!!!

rinky stingpiece
rinky stingpiece
2 years ago

“the bigger picture” is demographics… the developmental s-curve (since WW2 ended the long malaise following 1929) reached it’s plateau with the GFC, and the beginning of mass retirement of boomers. The amount debt built up during the lifetimes of boomers has stymied the subsequent generations’ ability to replicate the boomer life path. Globalisation delayed the inevitable; facilitated by the information revolution, but it’s not enough, and smartphones have given every idiot a voice, and isolated people of reproductive age at a time when accumulated debt suffocates economies. Immigration is another attempt to resolve the problem, but the problem is the size of the state in every country that has a bloated state. No country’s public sector should be more than 50% of its economy, and really it should be nowhere near as high as 50% either. Every effort is being deployed to maintain this unsustainable quantity of public sector everywhere.

fast bear
fast bear
2 years ago

100% spot on
Tariffs don’t hurt the well to do.

Clarence Beeks
Clarence Beeks
2 years ago

Biden’s Puppet Masters think tariffs will help the US auto industry and their millions of union workers, 95% of whom will vote Democrat.

TexasTim65
TexasTim65
2 years ago
Reply to  Clarence Beeks

They aren’t wrong. That’s exactly what it does all while extracting more money from everyone else who has to buy cars, steel etc.

Laura
Laura
2 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65

Not everyone can afford to buy a new car due to high prices of labor, materials and interest rates. Expect MAJOR layoffs in the auto industry starting this year.

rinky stingpiece
rinky stingpiece
2 years ago
Reply to  Laura

Expect major handouts to delay the layoffs until after November this year.

MPO45v2
MPO45v2
2 years ago

Trump was pro-tariff, Biden is double pro-tariff and Trump is upping the ante by saying he will raise tariffs even higher.

It seems that both parties are purposefully trying very hard to increase inflation because that will be the net result of both of their actions. The evidence is clear cut from past, present and future presidents, no matter who loses, inflation wins.

“It’s turtles all the way down, inflation all the way up!”

Got T-bills?

Woodsie Guy
Woodsie Guy
2 years ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

“Got T-bills?”….I sure do.

shamrockva
shamrockva
2 years ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

You’re suggesting Treasuries will go up in the face of higher inflation? Seems counterintuitive.

MPO45v2
MPO45v2
2 years ago
Reply to  shamrockva

If inflation goes higher, the Fed will raise short term interest rates causing the rate paid on T-bills to go higher. Higher rates will raise the USD, great for everyone outside the US that wants to sell product to US, bad for US businesses that want to export goods to those countries or businesses that need to convert weaker currencies back to USD.

Should also cause US stock markets to correct given the loss of profitability.
That’s why I also have puts on SPY for September but timing is everything in this game. I’m already thinking of puts on SPY for 2025 in case this money train derails, eventually I will get it right.

…$…$

rinky stingpiece
rinky stingpiece
2 years ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

You mean if scarcity increases, the central bank will try and guess what rate the bond markets are going to move to?! That’s a novel theory.

The data shows that central banks follow the bond yields; the bond market evaluates the prospects of the market, and central banks have no clue what the economy is going to do, because they are not participating in the markets, they are just trying to pretend to direct them, when they don’t.

shamrockva
shamrockva
2 years ago
Reply to  Mike Shedlock

Thank you. The 3 month treasury bill rate closely track the Fed funds rate, so it can only go higher if the Fed raises rates. Seems unlikely no? There would have to be some shocking inflation.

rinky stingpiece
rinky stingpiece
2 years ago
Reply to  shamrockva

The central banks will only raise rates if the market shows an appetite for selling bonds, lowering the price of bonds and sending the yield higher. Under what conditions would UST holders sell their bonds? If they thought there was a better return elsewhere… where else do you think there might be a better return at the moment than with a UST?
It’s a real question as well as a rhetorical one. Is there more room at the top for stocks? Gold? Oil? Something else?

rinky stingpiece
rinky stingpiece
2 years ago
Reply to  shamrockva

None of what they say will make any sense because they don’t understand what inflation specifically is. They just see a price rise and immediately call it inflation, which is a misuse or misunderstanding of the term and conditions for it.

Willie Nelson II
Willie Nelson II
2 years ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

T-bills that pay less than true inflation (change in total cost of living) are stupid.

Lending money longer term (continuously rolling over T-bills) to a deadbeat government that cannot pay its bills is very short term thinking.

  • Might work if you are already retired (you expect to die before the government formally defaults)?
  • Might be OK as a short term place holder (instead of 0% cash)?

But intermediate term and long term, T-bills don’t pay the bills and are a bad investment — especially when the government has taken on too much debt and must default (its just a question of when not if).

Woodsie Guy
Woodsie Guy
2 years ago

T bills are are short term. There aren’t any intermediate or long term t bills. Those are Treasury notes and bonds.

rinky stingpiece
rinky stingpiece
2 years ago

So in the current long yield curve inversion, why are people buying more of one kind of bond, and less of another? Never mind ideology, why not explain why the yield curve is currently inverted for about 2 years straight?

wheeler gannon
wheeler gannon
2 years ago

Call me stupid: I roll 90 day T-bills @ ~5.4% in my Roth IRA that off sets a 2.75% mortgage that’s tax deductible. I don’t tend to worry about government default because it owns a printing press. This cash is readily available for any family emergency.

Last edited 2 years ago by wheeler gannon
rinky stingpiece
rinky stingpiece
2 years ago
Reply to  MPO45v2

Price rises are not inflation. Inflation is a function of growth becoming overexuberant.
Tariffs are protectionism, and hearken back to pre-creditist, pre-capitalist, mercantilism, where the state uses cat’s paws to further it’s political/military/ideology goals.

deadbeatloser
deadbeatloser
2 years ago

Tariff proponents hate the poor. Buying fools votes is all it is. Envy is a clever tool for these thieves.

Sky Wizard
Sky Wizard
2 years ago
Reply to  deadbeatloser

Maybe if they had a job, they wouldn’t be poor.

rinky stingpiece
rinky stingpiece
2 years ago
Reply to  Sky Wizard

If everyone had jobs that paid more than the cost of living, what would happen to the cost of living?

(this feels like a GCSE economics homework question)

Micheal Engel
Micheal Engel
2 years ago

Car dealers built fancy crystal palaces, but their customers threw stones at them. Biden wants to protect the steel, aluminium and the car industries, but that big stuff isn’t moving.
Demand for 155mm, GPS bombs, missiles, drones and planes… is strong.

D. Heartland
D. Heartland
2 years ago

I came here to read the Stupid Comments from People who think Tariffs are OK. NOT YET.

Micheal Engel
Micheal Engel
2 years ago
Reply to  D. Heartland

Friedrich List : “National System of Political Economy” recommended tariffs. During the Gilded Age : 1865 – 1896 tariffs were imposed. The US overpowered GB, Germany and France.

rinky stingpiece
rinky stingpiece
2 years ago
Reply to  Micheal Engel

Was that because of demographic change due to mass immigration, or tariffs?

Clarence Beeks
Clarence Beeks
2 years ago

Go easy on ol’ Joe. He can’t remember what flavor ice cream he had today, let alone what he said about tariffs 5 years ago. 🙂

rinky stingpiece
rinky stingpiece
2 years ago
Reply to  Clarence Beeks

President Walter Mitty used to go to school with Tariffs every Sunday, where he sang in a afro-lesbian gospel choir, and made dim sum, with the native americans, and designed bridges using calculus in fluent Arabic, just like his Irish-Hawaiian ancestors.

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