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Lacy Hunt Sticks With His Message: Lower Bond Yields On the Way

Please do yourself a favor and read Hoisington Management’s Third Quarter Review by Lacy Hunt.

Hunt’s analysis is six pages long. I present a few paragraphs on the negative impact of debt in the economy. The titles are mine, the paragraphs are from Lacy.

Excessive Unproductive Debt

Excessive indebtedness acts as a tax on future growth and it is also consistent with Hyman Minsky’s concept of “Ponzi finance,” which is that the size and type of debt being added cannot generate a cash flow to repay principal and interest. While the debt has not resulted in the sustained instability in financial markets envisioned by Minsky, the slow reduction in economic growth and the standard of living is more insidious.

Swedish econometricians Andreas Bergh and Magnus Henrekson, writing in the prestigious Journal of Economic Surveys in 2011, substantiate that there is a “significant negative correlation” between the size of government and economic growth. Specifically, “an increase in government size by 10 percentage points is associated with a 0.5% to 1% lower annual growth rate.” This suggests that if spending increases, the government expenditure multiplier will become more negative over time.

Second, Ethan Ilsetzki (London School of Economics), Enrique Mendoza (University of Pennsylvania), and Carlos Vegh (University of Maryland) in a study published by peer reviewed the Journal of Monetary Economics in 2013, concluded that the government spending multiplier is sharply negative in highly indebted countries. The definition of highly indebted is central government debt exceeding 60% of GDP, a condition that is met by most of the major economies of the world.

Third, an econometric study by Alberto Alesina, Carlo Favero and Francesco Giavazzi in the Journal of International Economics in 2015, corroborates that the tax and expenditure multipliers are both negative, with the tax multiplier more negative. Quite significantly, these conclusions are supported by domestic as well as international data. Alesina is a Professor at Harvard, while Favero and Giavazzi are professors at IGIER-Bocconi.

Fourth, Cristina Checherita and Philip Rother, in research for the European Central Bank (ECB) published in 2014, investigated the average effect of government debt on per capita GDP growth in twelve Euro Area countries over a period of about four decades beginning in 1970. Dr. Checherita, now head of the fiscal affairs division of the ECB and Dr. Rother, chief economist of the European Economic Community, found that a government debt to GDP ratio above the turning point of 90-100% has a “deleterious” impact on long-term growth. In addition, they find that there is a non-linear impact of debt on growth beyond this turning point. A non-linear relationship means that as the government debt rises to higher and higher levels, the adverse growth consequences accelerate.

Trend in Treasury Yield Remains Downward

In the third quarter, economic growth slowed sharply, registering a fraction of the growth rate in the first half. We expect the third quarter’s weakness to continue over the balance of this year and into 2022.

During the 1970s, unlike currently, the velocity of money was stable (although not constant). As a result, the aggregate demand curve (C + I + G +X = M x V) also shifted steadily outward. This allowed the inflation from the supply side disruptions to become entrenched. Currently, however, the decline in money growth and velocity indicate that the inflation induced supply side shocks will eventually be reversed. In this environment, Treasury bond yields could temporarily be pushed higher in response to inflation. These sporadic moves will not be maintained. The trend in longer yields remains downward.

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43 Comments
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Oldest Most Voted
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
 I don’t know if Hunt or others mention it but the other thing the US has in common with Japan from the last 3 decades is an aging population that is living longer. This will still be true for those that survive Covid. I actually have always thought the US would get better growth than Japan did but not much better. If we see more courts cancelling personal debts, that is a scenario for more growth and a inflationary debt cycle. There is no win-win scenario though unless the Fed bails out those that bondholders that should have gotten paid. 
Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear
4 years ago
Hello! I’m pounding the table for a bottoming of the 60 year interest rate cycle! The present cycle is ~40 years old, so we should be expecting a parabolic INCREASE of interest rates over the next 20 years.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Six000mileyear
Won’t happen. Look at interest rates in Japan. They should gone up long ago. 
caradoc-again
caradoc-again
4 years ago
I’m with Hunt, it’s all turning Japanese.
Round table insight with x-IMF Prof Barry Eichengreen worth a listen. He doesn’t sound sure of himself.
We are all in a right royal mess.
anoop
anoop
4 years ago
Reply to  caradoc-again
i’m with burry.  it’s all turning weimar.
mike09
mike09
4 years ago
Reply to  anoop
no evidence
anoop
anoop
4 years ago
when you manage a long-only treasury fund and your income depends on bond prices going up…
Mish
Mish
4 years ago
Reply to  anoop
Nope – It depends on getting it right – Lacy picks the duration 
Webej
Webej
4 years ago
When the government invests in an existential war, the debt is considered productive, since all will otherwise be lost.
The same applies to any form of debt … it all depends on whether it is an investment in the power to produce or not, and that applies both to government and other parties.
Unfortunately, it is not always easy to distinguish in advance between what will turn out to be productive and what not, although much spending can easily be identified as consumptive. Economies such as Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, and China are easily identifiable as examples of economies that have pulled themselves up by their boot straps by investing in production (it used to be made in Japan or Hong Kong trinkets that were ridiculed routinely for their poor quality in the same way as Chinese ‘junk’ is today).
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
4 years ago
Alvin Hansen’s secular stagnation is simply a fall in velocity.  Secular stagnation causes an excess of savings over real investment outlets.  It’s an accounting error.  It’s stock vs. flow.  Only depositors can activate their holdings, monetary savings (and all monetary savings originate in the banks).  The banks can’t use deposits, as from the standpoint of the system, the banks pay for their earning assets with new money.  The larger the volume, or the greater the proportion of bank-held savings, the slower velocity will become.
Japan is a good example.  The Japanese save a greater proportion of their income, and keep a larger proportion in their payment’s system. “Japanese
households have 52% of their money in currency & deposits, vs 35% for
people in the Eurozone and 14% for the US.”
It’s self-destructive capitalism.  Remunerating IBDDs also destroys velocity.  It, once again, is a confusion of stock vs. flow.  The U.S. Golden Era in Capitalism was financed in 2/3 by velocity.  Today we have the opposite scenario.  The banks are outbidding the nonbanks for loan funds.  And that destroys the savings->investment process.  It reduces AD.  The nonbanks are not in competition with the banks.  The NBFIs are the DFIs’ customers.  Savings flowing through the nonbanks never leaves the  payment’s system.
Webej
Webej
4 years ago
Reply to  Salmo Trutta
It baffles me that Japan is always used as such a bad omen.
Most countries and populations would kill to trade places economically with the Japanese.
MntGoat
MntGoat
4 years ago
Also, it seems to me the only way to stop the debt to GDP ratio from it’s continued spiral upwards from it’s already record level of 130%, is to run inflation significantly higher than bond yields for years.  Negative real yields.  What the hell does Hunt think happens to the debt to GDP ratio if inflation is low????  Is it headed to 200%?  250%?
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Reply to  MntGoat
The central bank will monetize debt in conjunction with the treasury and we will become Japan. Prepare for decades of higher inflation and lower yields. And low growth. I use to say it would be the 1/1/1 economy. 1% rates, 1% growth and 1% inflation. Now since rates are 4x lower we are seeing inflation at 4x higher and still around 1% growth.  It is taking lower rates and higher inflation to get the same growth.  This is only good if you can afford the inflation.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Put me in this camp. Well said.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
4 years ago
“Prepare for decades of higher inflation and lower yields.”
Massive debt overhang will preclude any SUSTAINED inflation.  The past year of inflation a concoction of free money / moratoriums / forbearance / broken supply chains.  Some of that over / on way out.
DEFLATION on tap.  
Sooner rather than later.  After the bust we may well see inflation, but that will be due to fiscal / monetary decisions not yet made.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
I’m ready for a bust, as much as one can ever be, but I personally think you’re wrong about us slipping into any kind of real crash scenario in the short run.
It is true that the Fed doesn’t have much room to lower rates for another round of stimulus…….I wonder what their next trick will be.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
“but I personally think you’re wrong about us slipping into any kind of real crash scenario in the short run.”
yeah yeah, I know this cycle has 9 er, 99 lives and next can kick always seems at hand.
BUT, I’ve long since guessed that trouble (pin to bubble) would come from offshore … and China looking mighty interesting.
Jay Powell mostly all hat and no cattle, works well when crisis limited, but when TSHTF??
The next crisis will be the “usual” … forever and a day to arrive.  Then all at once.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
I’m more with Eddie on this one. I think we see a dip but there is enough money chasing value to snap it right back. This is the downside of creating so much money over the last 10 years. Don’t forget all that black money coming out of China and Russia and other places. Easily into the hundreds of billions if not trillion. I just don’t see a bust happening because of this and more along the lines of inflation spreading globally which is what we are seeing. First it spread into low cost areas in America. Now it is spreading into low cost places around the world. When this happen with Japan it was contained to Japan because the yen wasn’t really the global currency of choice anyway. But this is how it is different with the dollar. It would take a currency crash to have a true bust at this point but that seems impossible with the dollar because of how many dollars are floating around and how many people can’t afford for the dollar to become worth less (not worthless). 
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
4 years ago
 “It would take a currency crash to have a true bust at this point”
Strong $US will play a role in bust … and get stronger as crisis unfolds (Cash will be King).
Economy is globalized now.  Weakness will be felt in Emerging Markets due to inflation / broken supply chain.  Capital will flee EM and (initially) supportive of assets (including $US) in Developed Markets.  But offshore woes will take toll on US economy and it too, will weaken.  A key reason why $US will soar is that much of Emerging Market debt priced in $US.  Weakness will there will put a premium on $US as they struggle to get dollars by any means possible (price cuts on exports) to service debt.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
But what happens if supply chains get adjusted  and say stuff is produced in Asia excluding China ? 
FWIW, strong dollar means lower prices here if cost of stuff goes down in other currencies. That is a bullish (inflationary) and not deflationary. 
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
4 years ago
“FWIW, strong dollar means lower prices here if cost of stuff goes down in other currencies. That is a bullish (inflationary) and not deflationary.”
Huh?  You need to reread what I wrote.  Price cuts on EXPORTS.  I said nothing about a foreign country’s currency or local prices.  Price cuts on THEIR exports would be DEFLATIONARY for US.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
Years ago I use to say the economy was trapped in a Bermuda Triangle of sorts. This was around 2006 when I saw an asset bust coming because of how many bad loans were in the system. This time around the government is taking care of that monetizing literally all debt. Courts are allowing individuals to discharge 98% of all debt. While that may seem deflationary on the debt side, it actually frees people from debt or lets them go into the next debt inflationary cycle. If courts let people do this every 7 years, there is no end to how much debt people can take on and get discharged.
Webej
Webej
4 years ago
It baffles me that Japan is always used as such a bad omen.
Most countries and populations would kill to trade places economically with the Japanese.
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  MntGoat
GDP is supposed to be adjusted for inflation, but if it were accurately adjusted, we would likely find that recessions are pretty common.
MntGoat
MntGoat
4 years ago
I never hear Hunt pressed in any interviews or podcasts on what his guess is for the “end game”.  Do we just keep printing money and rolling the national debt until the end of time?  $40 trillion, $50 trillion, $100 trillion?  I’d love to hear his thoughts on when and how this all comes to a head.
Anon1970
Anon1970
4 years ago
The 20 year Middle East wars were not financed honestly by tax increases but by borrowed money. There were also two Bush 43 tax cuts and one Trump tax cut. I don’t pretend to understand the finer points of economic theory but I do know that a lot of people have been hurt by the low yields on CDs and bonds. I suppose the big crunch will come when most of the world refuses to treat the US$ as a reserve currency. Once upon a time, the British pound was the world’s reserve currency (before WWI). In those days 1 pound bought $4.80 US. These days, the exchange rate is about 1 pound = $1.35 US.   
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Anon1970
So what country’s currency will replace U$?
Anon1970
Anon1970
4 years ago
I don’t know. Perhaps China.
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  Anon1970
Yuan makes the most sense. And China could easily make it happen. Right now, they don’t want foreign accumulation of Yuan. They want it used solely for buying Chinese goods.
Business Man
Business Man
4 years ago
Reply to  Anon1970
Communism and totalitarianism never stand up to the test of time.  This idea that they have it all figured out is just bonkers.
What have they ever invented or created that was significant?  Things that weren’t built on stolen technology?
I would never want the currency of a centrally planned economy as the world’s reserve currency.  What a nightmare.
ILHawk
ILHawk
4 years ago
Maybe we are really broken this time.
Anon1970
Anon1970
4 years ago
Reply to  ILHawk
When it comes to the national debt, the sky is the limit.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Reply to  Anon1970
Until you get too close to the Sun. Icarus found that out the hard way, having a hard landing as a result.
PostCambrian
PostCambrian
4 years ago
I agree with most of Lacey Hunt’s conclusions although not necessarily his premise (regarding larger government being inherently worse for economic growth). But my question is this, if bond rates are going down and inflation is going up, why own a bond?
Anon1970
Anon1970
4 years ago
Reply to  PostCambrian
If you are an institutional investor and you are managing a bond fund or bond portfolio, your marching orders are to invest in bonds, not stocks. I have not bought a bond since the great Meridith Whitney California bond market crash of 2010-2011. She created some great opportunities for investors in California municipal bonds. I am holding all of my bonds until they either get called away or mature. It is too expensive for small investors to trade small blocks of bonds in response to small movements in interest rates.   
Webej
Webej
4 years ago
Reply to  Anon1970
Pension funds and insurance companies are mandated to cover future liabilities with so-called laddered bonds.
Not too too long ago, many funds barely invested in stocks, which since 1929 have been considered as too volatile and risky for the purposes of pensions, annuities, and life insurance.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Reply to  PostCambrian
Yin and Yang. Push and pull. Republicans and Democrats. Governments distort the economy.
Why own anything, when Klaus Schwab wants us to own nothing and be happy? Back in the day, A king would confiscate the wealth of the Catholic Church or whomever, when the treasury was broke. Wars were started to focus the restless populous on an external enemy, instead of the local ruler. Pillage the next kingdom to the east. West, south, and north were alternate options. The Romans went in all directions, being an equal opportunity empire.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
In former times the King would squeeze the merchants and the nobles when he wanted money. The churches no longer have the money they had before but we have institutions that are like the churches before and that would be the tax-free foundations which are now increadibly wealthy and like the churches before pay no taxes. I would hazard that they are ripe for the pickings.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
4 years ago
Reply to  PostCambrian
Capital gain can be significant.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Bond prices might go up, but so will rent, food, and fuel….inflation is in the eye of the beholder. 
Wages are sticky, they hardly ever go down. Car prices are pretty sticky too, in my lived experience. 
We can and will get higher prices on the things most of us have to buy…..even in the face of deflationary macroeconomic forces. It’s not an either/or situation, imho.
I’m finally closing on my refi’s today at 3pm, supposedly. I want to do the numbers to see exactly what it really is ending up costing me and what the savings will be….where I break even on the up-front costs.  I expect these will be the last loan deals I do for a while. Hard to say if will have been worth it……to have gone through process, when it’s said and done. We’ll see.
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Of course, the larger the government, the slower the economic growth. Government employees only care about keeping their jobs. It’s loaded with Karens whose job is to setup meetings, type up meeting agendas, invite as many people as possible, type meeting notes that make it seem like she made important decisions and then send the meeting notes to as many people as possible so they can see she did something. All for a meeting that could have easily been replaced by a few emails.
Business Man
Business Man
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
This gave me a good chuckle!
MntGoat
MntGoat
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Well put KidHorn.  Govt jobs and large global woke corporations are filled with conformist Karen type employees that are indeed good at lots of meetings, increasing wasteful beauracracy to preserve their jobs.  I made the jump out of the corporate world as a small biz owner 20 yrs ago.  But it’s a struggle.  The socialists and govt armies make it much harder and you have to work 10x as hard as them and take all kinds of risks with no safety net.  All while they sit on their butts and collect their nice salary, pension, benefits and make your life hell.  And they all vote Dem.  Most Dem politicians are Karens and their whole lives have been Govt jobs.  This is not what the founding fathers intended.

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