It currently costs NY about $36 per MWH for energy. But the state demanded wind. Let’s discuss the amazing bottom line results.
So Much for So Little
The Wall Street Journal asks Why Is New York Paying So Much for Wind Power?
New York state signed a contract in June to buy electricity generated by two large wind farms, Empire Wind 1 and Sunrise Wind, off the coast of Long Island. The projects are expected to begin in 2026 and 2027, with power delivered to Brooklyn (Empire) and Long Island (Sunrise). The state will pay $155 and $146 per megawatt-hour, respectively. These prices are steep, at least four times the average grid cost paid over the past year.
States agree to pay wind-power operators—known as the “offtake price”—based on a project’s “break-even cost,” the estimated bill for building and operating the wind farm over its useful life. That is undoubtedly part of the problem. The offshore wind business off the East Coast is in turmoil. Operators have canceled projects from Massachusetts to Maryland that were due to be constructed in the next four years. Some have been delayed, while others have renegotiated their contracts at prices 30% to 50% higher than originally promised.
Two widely quoted sources of break-even costs are the U.S. Energy Information Administration and Lazard, an investment bank. In its most recent estimates, the EIA suggests the average break-even cost of offshore wind farms, adjusted to 2024 prices, is $131 per megawatt-hour, not counting government subsidies, and $101 per megawatt-hour after allowing for basic tax credits. The latter figure is what matters, because every offshore wind farm expects to take advantage of investment or production tax credits under the Inflation Reduction Act.
EIA Says Wind is Not Economical
Let’s pause right there because wind is absurd by any measure.
The cost of wind is $131 per MWH without credits and $101 with $30 in tax credits according to the EIA.
A handout of $30 is an 83 percent subsidy (30/36) and the deal still is still nearly 100% per MWH in the red, losing $35 per MWH over the cost of buying energy at market rates.
A Sweetheart Deal
The deal (thank you team Biden and New York), will pay $155 and $146 per megawatt-hour, respectively to Empire Wind 1 and Sunrise Wind.
The owner-operators of the two farms—Equinor for Empire and Orsted for Sunrise—are two of the top five global wind-farm investors and operators. Equinor is Norway’s state oil company, while Orsted previously was Denmark’s.
With a break even cost of $101 (thanks to subsidies), Equinor will make $54 per MWH and Orsted will make a mere $45 per MWH on something whose total cost should be $36 per MWH.
The Journal calculates Equinor and Orsted (foreign corporations) will each receive a total subsidy of more than $3 billion courtesy of U.S. taxpayers.
The Journal asks “Did New York sign an agreement that allows large wind-farm operators to earn unreasonably high after-tax profits at the expense of its residents?”
I believe the math speaks for itself.
Not only will New Yorkers pay over four times the going rate for energy, the US will send $3 billion to foreign companies to do so.
Congrats team Biden and New York State.
Another Green Energy Company Declares Bankruptcy
Meanwhile, Another Green Energy Company Declares Bankruptcy, Thank Biden’s Tariffs
And incase you missed it Ford Loses $132,000 on Each EV Produced, Good News, EV Sales Down 20 Percent
Perhaps some scientific insight from the test study, Germany. https://www.thegwpf.org/content/uploads/2017/02/Vahrenholt-20171.pdf Germany planned,as did Europe, for NG generation. They planned to remove coal and replace it with NG just as Canada and the US have. Despite the mis and disinformation presented by Governments, NG was and still is the plan for consistent reliable clean effective and cheap energy generation and they know it is 100% necessary for unreliable, intermittent, expensive current renewable technologies to be able to function. NG was to be piped through Syria from Turkey, Qatar and Egypt to Europe. Just as Assad was signing the agreements, Putin stepped on his head. They tried to force Assad into signing agreements for NG produced by Iran and Iraq. Then the war in Syria began and Putin was able to have Germany sign on for two massive NG pipelines.
The South Ford Wind Farm produces max 71 MW, capacity of 135 MW. We paid over $1B for that. Total cost will be $1.65 B. Cuomo and Hochul have no concept of money. And today the entire state, capacity of 2800 MW, is producing less than 20 MW. So the cost is going to be much higher has production never meets capacity. Every MW installed in solar or wind needs 100% back up. So, the cost goes up more. Using these numbers of $135/MW, when the EPA shuts down the coal plants in PA where we import almost 3000 MW every hour, every day. The cost will be $3.5B. And that won’t cover it. Prepare for blackouts. No industry. No chip plants. People freezing to death as natural gas stoves, heaters and furnaces are banned in 2027
Um Um
When Mike Shedlock says “wind is absurd by any measure,” he is precisely correct.
It should be obvious to all that wind power is very intermittent power that does not fulfill our needs for continuous electricity. Hence, it is a low quality power that is inherently less valuable to the grid. That means it should be sold for considerably less than the high quality power from fossil fuels, nuclear, and hydro.
But propagandists claim that wind power will somehow save our climate from carbon dioxide and is hence valuable. Of course, that is total nonsense, because the benign byproducts of our civilization (carbon dioxide and water vapor) are completely beneficial. COMPLETELY.
Slightly enhanced atmospheric CO2 (from 0.03% to 0.04%) helps us feed the billions of people who call this planet home. CONSIDERABLY.
Very slight theoretical warming from the greenhouse effect is overwhelmingly beneficial, because it provides longer and more reliable growing seasons in places like Canada, where a slight decrease in the Global Temperature could eliminate food production over wide areas. With wheat a worldwide staple from the Middle East, we have to be wary of the sort of Global Cooling that led to the French Revolution. A cooling climate in France led to crop failures and famine. The French refused to adapt by growing the cold tolerant potato like the Germans.
To add to the absurdities coming from wind promoters, the need for backup power from quick-start (but inefficient) fossil fuel plants to supply the grid when the wind is not blowing increases the carbon footprint of the combination beyond that of conventional power.
Hence, there is no excuse for building more windmills.
Gordon J. Fulks, PhD (Physics)
Corbett, Oregon USA
Nope. You are full of sh*t.
Lets have a discussion about one of your claims. CO2 levels. Anyone who claims further increases in CO2 levels is beneficial for us is a dumb f*ck.
I will be happy to debate you on this. It will be fun.
I will even let you go first. Explain why you want higher CO2 levels and what you think an ideal CO2 level would be.
I have commented on this topic so many times now, you can probably look up what I have said in the past to help you in your presentation.
I finished reading all the arguing below and think we all missed the most important point. Even if the US does its share reducing CO2, at very high costs we can’t afford to meet, will the rest of the world spend enough of their wealth to save us all?
If the world can’t win (afford to win) this war then shouldn’t we spend our money building sea walls like they have in Galveston TX, etc, etc. We will never be able to do both.
PS – Am I a coward because I moved to rural Wisconsin where I have unlimited access to firewood and fresh water?
climate hysteria is pure propaganda… sea levels remain static… temps are well within historical ranges… pollution is minimal relative to recent generations despite higher populations.
natural gas will inevitably provide the majority of the planet’s energy for the next 5-10 centuries.
“…Am I a coward because I moved to rural Wisconsin where I have unlimited access to firewood and fresh water?”
No, you are smart.
Hahaha! You’re so full of sh*t! How about some scientific proof that sea levels are static please.
And I am also a big proponent of more natural gas use. However, natural gas currently provides just 23% of world energy needs. Which is up from 22% in 2010. I don’t know how you get to over 50% (the majority).
Based on current consumption levels, the world has roughly 60 years of natural gas reserves left; but there will be more discovered.
Will we still be using natural gas in a hundred years. Yes; but it will probably be a tiny amount compared to today.
Dear PapaDave,
Along the Oregon Coast near where I live, sea level has remained almost static for a long while. That is because the land is rising at about the same rate as mean sea level. Elsewhere the net rise is different.
But John Clauser pointed out to several of us the other day that our oceans and continents are floating on the Earth’s liquid core and hence remain essentially static overall. Alfred Wegener partially understood this more than a century ago when he proposed Continental Drift. (Clauser is the 2022 Nobel Laureate in Physics.)
Gordon J. Fulks, PhD (Physics)
Corbett, Oregon USA
Sorry, Gordon. Just happened to see your reply. Thanks for that, and I will now respond. Don’t want to be rude!
Hahahaha! John Clauser! F*ck me! That’s hilarious!
Another f*cking old shill who has never published a climate paper in his entire life. He is limited to publishing his sh*t is cult conspiracy rags like the Epoch Times where he can fool the cult morons. I guess that is how he supplements his income. Just like the old shills who claimed that smoking was good for you.
You know what other garbage he has said:
“Yes, CO2 is going up but we don’t really know where it’s coming from!”
Hahahahaha!
It’s basic chemistry you dumb f*ck! There are different isotopes of Carbon associated with fossil fuels. As we burn more fossil fuels, we increase those isotopes in the atmosphere. And we can measure this precisely.
He has said a lot of other dumb things as well. But I digress.
You are going to have to do a lot better than trotting out John Clauser. You’re a physicist. Why don’t you use your extensive knowledge to impress me with some real climate science.
It will be fun. We can have a serious discussion of climate science.
What’s wrong that it’s not a win for consumers, tax payers, and businesses alike, as the last offshore wind auction in Germany. It resulted in a nose subsidy, 2bln€ cash in for tax payers, and a profitable business for energy companies.
English Source:
https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/SharedDocs/Pressemitteilungen/EN/2024/20240607_OffshoreBK6.html
I find this hilarious…. now let’s examine what happens when the supply of cheap energy is not enough to fulfill demand https://www.odt.co.nz/business/jones-slams-ridiculously-high-power-prices
And trust me … that is not a result of banning exploration … no country is THAT dumb…. but it sounds better than admitting there is no affordable energy left to be found…
NZ is f789ed. They being an island nation they are unable to pipe gas in … so the only real option is to ship it — hugely expensive.
They have opted to ration what remains… including throttling back production in the big energy using industries like smelting of ores….
You really like to misinform and exaggerate.
NZ does not need to import any natural gas. They have their own nat gas fields which supply 21% of their total energy needs.
Most of their electricity comes from geo-thermal, hydro and wind.
You appear to have not read my comment… they do have gas… but clearly it is not enough — and that is why electricity prices have gone through the roof.
Industries are SHUTTING DOWN and SCALING BACK to ration what is left and try to keep the prices from going completely out of control
Read the f789ing article https://www.odt.co.nz/business/jones-slams-ridiculously-high-power-prices
It is being blamed on a ban on searching for more gas…. cuz they cannot tell the people that there is no more to be found
People I am talking to have seen their heating bills double this winter…
I read the article. And yes, you are exaggerating and misinforming as usual. You said:
“Industries are SHUTTING DOWN and SCALING BACK to ration what is left and try to keep the prices from going completely out of control.”
An exaggeration. One company is crying that it will shut down, and is implying it wants government subsidies.
“ It is being blamed on a ban on searching for more gas…. cuz they cannot tell the people that there is no more to be found.”
Yes; the previous government imposed a ban on oil and gas exploration and the current administration has reversed it. Problem solved.
Natural gas still provides a measly 16% of New Zealand’s electricity generation. And that number has been steady for a decade now. Not much has changed.
Just a lot of bitching and whining from a company looking for a handout.
And misinformation and exaggeration from you; as usual.
New Zealand is heading towards an electricity supply crisis.
Months of dry weather have led to low hydro storage and that along with falling gas reserves are being blamed for soaring wholesale electricity prices.
The crunch is already hurting businesses and forcing closures, with residential consumers next in line to feel the pinch.
Natural gas is sourced from six main gas fields in the Taranaki region, three onshore and three offshore. The electricity sector typically uses the most gas in winter when demand is highest. Several of our gas fields are naturally declining as their fuel depletes.
New Zealand’s electricity supply has come under immense strain in recent months as hydro lake levels drop after a dry summer and below normal rainfall, while falling gas reserves also contribute to driving up the cost of electricity.
Since September 2021, wholesale electricity prices have risen from around $100 per megawatt hour (MWh) to an average of around $700 per MWh in early August.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/08/22/what-you-need-to-know-about-nzs-electricity-supply-crisis/
God invented New Zealand to provide the world with an insane asylum.
I play hockey with a guy who has been in the oil and gas industry for 25 years… we were on the ice last night and I asked him about this … he said NZ supposedly has some gas far offshore — he suspects the reason that the government has not authorized extraction is because the high cost to extract it makes it non-viable.
I used to buy high quality coal from these guys https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/southland/end-era-ohai-locals-recall-life-friendships-once-bustling-mining-town
I called them when there were closing to ask why — they said there was plenty of coal remaining but the deposits were now too deep and too difficult to extract … therefore the coal was not economically viable….
We converted our heating system to a diesel boiler because there was no quality coal source anywhere near us — and buying it from the west coast was prohibitively expense due to shipping costs.
NZ is most definitely F678ed. It’s the canary in the coal mine.
The Major Electricity Users Group, whose members include Fonterra, New Zealand Steel, Oceana Gold, Visy and Woolworths NZ, said the current situation was concerning.
Executive director Karen Boyes said a number of its members had rolling outage plans where a percentage of electricity was taken off to help manage tight supply and ideally they would be able to avoid a situation where households would start to feel the effects.
Households and businesses could help by avoiding using appliances at the peak times if they were able.
Earlier this month, New Zealand’s biggest gas user, Methanex, announced a temporary shutdown of operations in a deal with Contact and Genesis Energy, to add extra gas supply to the system.
The Tiwai Point aluminium smelter agreed to further reduce its energy use by another 20 megawatts (MW) to help ease the country’s supply constraints. In July, it agreed to reduce its usage by 185 MW, which was about four per cent of the country’s energy use.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/08/22/what-you-need-to-know-about-nzs-electricity-supply-crisis/
There… now you have been schooled.
Say thank you to Fast Eddy
Oh good. New articles with more information.
So the biggest problem is months of lack of rain for hydro power, which provides 60% of NZ electricity. Got it. Why didn’t you mention that?
As I always say, it is best to have as many energy sources as possible. Why rely on just one or two.
Last week, Methanex, the country’s largest natural gas buyer, temporarily mothballed its remaining operations at Motunui in the midst of an acute gas supply shortage.
The Vancouver-based company, with plants in Taranaki, manufactures methanol from natural gas and has agreed to sell its contracted gas supply to electricity providers Contact Energy and Genesis Energy.
The gas released by Methanex will result in the closure of its own plants, where production was already heavily curtailed.
NZ is running out of gas – literally
The coalition government recently announced its plan to reverse a ban on new oil and gas exploration to deal with an energy security challenge brought on by rapidly declining natural gas reserves.
But this assumes, rather optimistically, that repealing the ban will prompt companies to invest in new gas fields.
READ THIS PART CAREFULLY:
What has changed is that all the extra drilling hasn’t turned up much extra gas in the past few years. This is despite record amounts spent on new wells – nearly $1.3 billion between 2020 and 2024. Energy companies now think there’s less gas than previously thought.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/524994/nz-is-running-out-of-gas-literally-that-s-good-for-the-climate-but-it-s-bad-news-for-the-economy
As with all resources… the cheap and easy stuff gets extracted and use first… then eventually … what remains is economically NOT viable.
That is why NZ is running out of gas…. there is gas remaining… but it’s economically not viable to extract. So it will remain in the ground.
When gas runs low
As an island nation, New Zealand can’t easily import more gas from overseas. There is no pipeline to Australia, and liquefied natural gas terminals are expensive to build.
Macroeconomics tells us that when a resource becomes scarce in a closed market, the following things happen.
First, with a fixed amount of gas to go around, its use has to be prioritised. This means some users might miss out. As it happens, the government has been struggling to renew a contract to supply schools, prisons and hospitals with gas.
Second, when a resource becomes scarce, its price tends to rise. This tracks with the experience of Pan Pac, a forestry owner and processor in Hawke’s Bay which reported a three-fold increase in gas costs, from $3m a year to potentially $9m at current prices.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/524994/nz-is-running-out-of-gas-literally-that-s-good-for-the-climate-but-it-s-bad-news-for-the-economy
“Macroeconomics tells us that when a resource becomes scarce in a closed market, the following things happen.”
You left out the Clowns wanting to “Block Out The Sun” & what I am sure will be next, is more Clowns wanting to “Make it Rain”
Oh Brother…
It’s ok to admit you were wrong… (rather than dig your hole deeper)…
The only way you learn is to change your mind when the facts dictate
A new gas field could take a decade or longer to find, develop and bring online. At the same time, if there are no new reserves (regardless of whether the government goes through with the repeal of the ban), we can expect gas supply to drop to half within six years, according to MBIE forecasts.
This means there might not be enough gas to simultaneously maintain synthetic (ammonia-based) fertiliser production, peak electricity generation and methanol exports. What should get prioritised?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/524994/nz-is-running-out-of-gas-literally-that-s-good-for-the-climate-but-it-s-bad-news-for-the-economy
Stay tuned for the closure of more industries… and throttling back on non-essential services…
This is obviously at some point going to collapse the economy
There you go again! Post, after post, after post.
New Zealand is going to collapse! Just like the US! It’s coming! Almost here!
Ok. I’ll wait for it! Thanks.
The heating bill price climb has nothing to do with the amount of supply or demand, it’s policies and regulations forcing the prices to necessarily skyrocket as Obama and the greeniac climate fear mongers said they would. They had to force the cheap reliable clean and efficient energy prices to skyrocket so they could suggest that wind and solar is now the cheaper solution. The issue is, they fail to acknowledge the ineffective and inefficient wind and solar technologies of today and they alone can’t be relied on to constant energy which humans require.
like the us before biden was energy independent now when iran shuts the persian gulf then gas and oil will be astronomical in price if you can get any.
Lol!
US oil production is at all time highs under Biden. Feel free to look it up.
But you won’t. You’re afraid to find out the truth. Because it wouldn’t fit with your cult narrative.
It’s for democracy don’t you know?
The Journal calculates Equinor and Orsted (foreign corporations) will each receive a total subsidy of more than $3 billion courtesy of U.S. taxpayers.
It’s for the children don’t you know?
Global Climate Warming Change Ozone Hole Disaster (semantic fear inducment word salad – mandatory for maximum panic to shut down reasoning and invoke the fear centers of the brain)
and somehow Al Gore and Greta Thunberg will get a 2% finders fee for every green energy credit issued by the Bank of Climate Insantiy.
Its like Amway for Ecowarriors, the numbers never added up, but the desire to believe is so strong, it doesn’t matter. lets lose a little money every year, and eventually it will break even (or we will be oddly broken).
Links and proof please.
How ironic would it be if Kamrade Kamala put price controls to counter Biden’s subsidies.
Typical liberal thinking. Take something that is working well, then come up with a woke alternative that drives the price up 4x. Then, throw more money at it to cut the price in half and then tell everyone that you are saving them money.
Would it not save money if the Government simply paid the power companies a bribe under the table?
it would be cheaper to buy up all the electric vehicles and junk them, than to build a larger power grid based on Wind Power.
Got some stats to back that up? Was that in Readers Digest?
I think it was in one of those splashy newspapers that are in the racks at the checkout line.
Some people (most likely politicians/ex-politicians/green focused energy companies) are making serious money on the green grift. The jump from $36 per mwh to $155 per mwh is insane.
The “average” in 2022 was $118. That average dropped to $36 in 2023, thanks largely to a 75% drop in natural gas prices, a lot of inexpensive renewables coming on line and a couple of other things I mention in another post.
New York gets 45% of its electricity from nat gas; 25% from nuclear; 22% from hydro. Wind is just 4%.
The offshore wind project mentioned is scheduled to come online in 2027/28.
There are much less expensive options to offshore wind (again, read my other posts).
spending lavishly ends up making money for the electric utilities because they are a regulated monopoly; they can pass that extra 10c per kwh to the customers and tack on an extra 5c to keep margins from shrinking too much.
What is more important isn’t the average cost of electricity, but is the source able to produce when it is needed the most. Peak energy can have horrific prices. If offshore wind is producing at the same time a peaker would be used, this would save the consumers money.
With the land warming faster than the water, the warm air rises above the land and pulls in the air over the ocean. Wind over the ocean has the least resistance of all to the air flow. 10 mw and above turbines do not have the tower height restrictions there are over land. The higher the tower, the better the production of electricity being sent into the cities on shore. Another little tid bit is natural gas peakers have a much higher cost of operation than offshore wind. this is also a time when peakers would normally run and may not be needed if enough wind, solar and storage is built. This would reduce the co2 pollution into the air for our energy. Also the production time of wind over water is greater than that over the land. Its a rich area of energy to tap into.
https://www.energy.gov/eere/wind/articles/top-10-things-you-didnt-know-about-offshore-wind-energy
3. Offshore Wind is Right on Time: In many areas where offshore wind projects are planned, offshore wind speeds are highest during the afternoon and evening, when consumer demand is at its peak. Most land-based wind resources are stronger at night when electricity demands are lower.
I am a proponent of all energy sources (though I would prefer if we could stop burning coal). My issue with offshore wind is the cost is quite high. Onshore wind, solar and hydro are much cheaper. Even nat gas and coal are cheaper. Why choose the more expensive option?
Yes; natural gas “peaker” plants are expensive with an LCOE of $150 to 190/Mwh, because they only run when the renewables are not. But a regular natural gas plant has an LCOE of $40-80/Mwh.
I have been centered in reading about global warming and renewable energy both. My view is that NG is good for transition till our RE system gets into full swing. If you build NG, eventually it will be scrapped in about 15 to 25 years. Is it worth building more or should we put the entire NG budget into RE?
Enough Offshore wind, solar and storage will get rid of a lot of NG burning. First on the list should be NG peakers.
Yes. It is absolutely worth building out natural gas plants for electricity generation. Their lifespan is 25-30 years, which is the same as utility solar. Windmill lifespan is less at 20-25 years.
In addition, we could reduce emissions far faster if we could replace coal generation with natural gas. Cheaper and cleaner. Win-win.
And at this point, we are still not building enough renewables to meet our growing energy demand. Without adding more gas, oil, coal etc, we would literally be short of energy. Renewables are not even keeping up with demand, let alone being able to reduce fossil fuel use.
No; it is not worth dropping nat gas and putting that money into renewables. While renewables may be slightly cheaper, their intermittancy offsets that.
Wind Turbines: Typically have a capacity factor ranging from 20% to 40%. This means they generate electricity at their maximum capacity for about 20% to 40% of the time, depending on wind conditions and location.
Solar Panels: Generally have a capacity factor of around 10% to 25%. This lower percentage is due to the variability of sunlight throughout the day and across seasons.
Natural Gas Generators: These have a much higher capacity factor, often around 50% to 90%. Natural gas plants can be ramped up or down quickly to meet demand, making them more reliable for continuous power generation.
Anti logic at play!!!
Brilliant stuff…. my IQ is however not low enough to grasp these concepts…
Do you think if I allowed an NFL linebacker to crash into me and I did not wear a helmet… after a week or so I might lower the intellectual bar enough to get it?
You seem to be in your own world there.
everything man builds will eventually be scrapped by man or nature. Yet still we build for we must improve our lot or live in squalor.
If scapped, hopefully recycled.
Nuclear wind blows, 24/7 even when the sun is gone round to the other side of the world. and birds rarely fly into the cooling towers and the fiberglass blades never shatter littering beaches.
A nice reactor or 2 and the power company execs and their families mandated by law to live on the property by the reactors ensures, they actually follow safety regs and maintenance. Its funny how when the management has some skin in the game, they make sure they actually manage the things they are paid to manage..
WTF does that gibberish even mean? Do you have a point you are trying to make?
And by the way, the earth goes around the sun. Not the other way around.
it all depends on your point of view, from earth it appears the sun is moving. from the sun, well you are burned to a crisp in a moment. my point is Nuclear is more reliable than solar or wind.
IF, management is made to actually manage the reactors properly as mandated by law and safety regs.
Spend some time with the Old Readers Digest Dave, it will up your comprehension skills
Is that where you get all your knowledge from; Readers Digest, which is geared to a grade 6-8 audience?
“ IF, management is made to actually manage the reactors properly as mandated by law and safety regs.”
What? You mean that our nuclear reactors are not being safely run? That’s terrible! Data and links please.
Regarding nuclear; it is indeed one more source of the energy we need. And the first new (from scratch) reactor just came online in July. It’s the first in 3 decades. It took 15 years to build. And it is very expensive electricity. And there are NO new reactors planned in the US after that one.
Nuclear provides just 18-19% of US electricity. And this percentage will keep falling as we will not be building any new reactors.
So, again; what’s your point?
And here we have Jeff Green … pontificating as the president of that far off country DelusiSTAN….
I am told Jeff has built an immense warehouse in DelusiSTAN… and is stockpiling used Tesla vehicles…. cuz the value plummets within a year of purchase and Jeff has an arrangement with Elon to buy these lemons from pissed off owners who ditch them and revert to ICE.
I am unable to understand the rationale that Jeff applies to his ‘business model’ because I am burdened by logic…. and I do not have a passport for DelusiSTAN…
But on some ridiculously deluded level… this all makes some sort of sense….
I’d rather you stay on topic.
I live rural. Already decided ill just go without. I already told homeowners ins to piss off. If i get blown away ill just pull in a trailer. Im tired of fighting them.
Really interesting. and horrifying. I added a link to this Mish article to my own article Confessions of a Climate Crisis Hitman at bangpath.substack.com
They will not be producing much of anything when one of our decent local storms comes blowing thru.
Anybody ever been offshore when it kicked up?
I have and that Blue water goes to Green and then Black fairly quickly.
Almost snapped a 125 ft. steel hull and we had to take what is called the chicken route back to port. Using Martha Vineyard Island to break the seas.
In any Case these projects where pushed by your friendly Senate majority leader Chucky Schumer along with Hochul the self righteous.
Think about how smart solar panels do in a Hail storm then compound that with 50 ft Seas. 50 ft seas are not rare in the NY Bight area.
Doesn’t mean a turbine will truly survive, but they are designed for 120 mph winds.
Nothing more corrosive then the Ocean. Wind power makes sense (disregarding the visual and animal impacts as well) if there is easy access to maintain the unit. That can only be done on Land.
At Sea it is unbelievably difficult to get things done. Everything is moving and as the work has to get done by human hands some soul has to be swinging around in the air to accomplish. It gets absolutely horridly cold during winter, between the wind and wet hands.
As a tender boat is used people will get washed overboard. Commercial fishing is seriously dangerous as comparative example.
This whole project is a Political stunt to show those who have no idea what being at Sea means that they can be all self congratulatory that they are doing right by global warming.
Turbine Blades are said to be fiberglass with a foam liner as pieces of one that destructed washed up onto Nantucket beaches.
Any storm coming up the coast collides right in the New York Bight area with winds from mainland. This is a stormy area.
All energy sources suffer problems. None is perfect. Weather can shut down deep water rigs, LNG facilities, pipelines, nuclear plants etc. Which is why it’s a good idea to have as many different energy sources as possible.
One example: Cold weather in Texas occasionally shuts down natural gas but not windmills.
Global warming or renewable energy based system. Global warming effects everyone on earth. No one escapes it. A broken turbine blade is not good but can be lived with better than Global Warming.
For all the talk of global warming here in Long Island things are cooling down early by several weeks.
Turned the home heat on in early June for couple days and had some summer in July.
Some days mid 90’s F but that was it.
Can certainly remember weeks on end in 90’s F with occasional 100 every day with no letup.
Also remember winters where four feet of frost in ground and ice 2 miles out into LI Sound. That has not occurred either for past decade.
I also remember back to back Hurricanes when I was young.
So far nothing is very different then anything I have experienced over my Lifetime.
Personal anecdotes are the arguments of a 5 year old. Surely you can do better than that.
No, they are the arguments of a person who has lived working outdoors for a great part of his life.
You obviously have not worked out doors to earn a living.
You have never feed a family by the sweat of your brow under a blazing sun nor froze your ass off working so that the Bills got paid.
For if you had then you would not make stupid comments as you are so prone to do.
My observations are based upon the real world as experienced real time.
Nothing has changed in climate as I have seen more cold and more heat in the past then what is occurring here in the present.
If anything things have tempered and it is a more even maritime environment then a Continental climate.
Lol! Still arguing like a 5 year old. When do you start stomping your feet to add emphasis?
Let me help you. Your personal observations mean nothing. You need to provide some data; some facts; some science; some proof. But maybe that’s simply beyond your abilities.
Hurrican Sandy was part of a predicted global warming scenario. I get the impression, you don’t pay attention to science nor even want to consider its truth. Long Island has experienced a little more sea level rise than the rest of the world, along with a full moon to help the tide go higher along with a hurricane. NYC got the full whammy possible. Hopefully this is the only time NYC will get whacked like this. But then, be ready for the next one or pay the price.
Jeff you have to start attending the meetings more regularly. we outlawed the term “global warming” age ago. Climate Change is the go to vague term for generating mindless fears of the unknown. Please stop using Global Warming as it has been retired from the Lexicon of Fear.
Nope. Global Warming is still happening. Or do you have data to show that it isn’t?
I don’t fear AGW.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1364032121001805
I’m sure the people are trained for this. I would assume its decent paying job for its higher level of difficulty and risk.
“..but they are designed for 120 mph winds.”
By guys receiving 75-80% of their earnings from welfare. And the rest from mindlessly regurgitating trivially childbrained hype without even knowing better.
How many turbines have been sitting in 120mph ocean storms for 20 years? What was the failure rate? As opposed to petty Birkin Bags and Teslas bought as fashion accessories by welfare recipients in SF and NYC: Power grids NEED to work (Perhaps not in NYC, where not a single useful hour of work has been done since Mariah Carey was in her prime; but in other parts of the state).
What resources are on standby to fix these monoculture “designed” ALL-the-same-thus-far-untested-hence-unknown-failure-modes turbines, in a timely manner? When, “like, oooops, thiiiiiiingz were,like, diiiiiferent thiiiiiz tiiiiime, to, like, the weather and,like, climate change,like, stuff” happens again,and again,and again?
Competent people and organizations all advance much the same: They make slow, babystep, improvements to the Corolla and Camry. Competent societies grew roads, power grids, rail etc…. organically. Starting with tinkerers who took the big risks themselves. At a small scale. And only then, slowly, starting to offer what worked to others. Wilbur and Orville did NOT “have a meeting” with ambulance chasing nothings and slimy politicians and idiot banksters and “investors” and “sign a contract” for 50,000 planes before building one…. If they did; China would have beaten us 10-1 almost a century earlier than they did. Quaint insight, I suppose; viewed from the current complete retardtopia which is all that is left of America anymore.
Here’s a comparison of the levelized cost of electricity (LCOE) for different energy sources in the USA, based on recent data:
Nuclear Power: The LCOE for nuclear power is relatively high, ranging from $65 to $130 per megawatt-hour (MWh) due to high capital and operational costs. Vogtle Unit 3 which came online in July and is the first new nuclear plant in the US in 30 years has an LCOE of $120.
Wind Power: Onshore wind power is one of the more cost-effective options, with an LCOE ranging from $30 to $60 per MWh2. Offshore wind is more expensive, typically between $80 and $120 per MWh.
Solar Power: Utility-scale solar photovoltaic (PV) installations have an LCOE ranging from $30 to $60 per MWh2. Rooftop solar PV is more expensive, ranging from $117 to $282 per MWh.
Natural Gas: Combined-cycle natural gas plants have an LCOE ranging from $40 to $80 per MWh, making them a competitive option.
Coal: Coal still provides close to 20% of US electricity at an LCOE ranging from $70 to $100 per MWh.
Hydropower: Conventional hydropower has an LCOE ranging from $30 to $60 per MWh, depending on the location and scale of the project.
Solar, Onshore Wind, and Hydro Power are the cheapest options currently, with Natural Gas the second best option. Natural gas has the extra advantage of being fastest to build if you need the power soon (2 years). Nuclear is the worst because it takes the longest to build (Vogtle 3 took 15 years).
Offshore wind is certainly the second worst choice based on cost and construction time. (2-5 years depending on size and complexity)
I expect quite a few new natural gas plants to come online over the next decade as electricity demand ramps up quickly due to AI, EVs and Crypto.
This is where you get to shine PD, so, given the article says that NY paid $36/MWh in the last year how does that tie to this notion of LCOE you mention where nearly none of them are anywhere near $36 in a typical electric-source mix in the U.S? You get to educate us (me) on this LCOE calculation because the summarized numbers are:
Nat Gas: $40-$80
Coal: $70-$100
Nuclear: $65-130
Hydro: $30-60
Solar: $30-60
Wind: Onshore $30-60; Offshore $80-120
Of course the point of the article is why government feels compelled to overpay, using taxpayer dollars, for electricity, especially to foreign interests–much in the same way they do with prevailing wage contracts on nearly all infrastructure projects.
Still I would like to understand given $36 < the listed LCOE values. I suspect it’s in this concept of LCOE.
An interesting question.
I have no idea where the $36/Mwh number comes from. But it does not sound right to me. It could be a “one-off” contract that is being used to skew the narrative. Perhaps it was from a single contract with an onshore wind or solar provider who had a breakeben of around $30. It certainly was NOT for ALL electricity purchased by NY state.
For example; In 2022, the wholesale cost of electricity in NY state was $118/Mwh or 11.8 cents per KWh.
The 2024 residential rate is around 24 cents per Kwh or $240/Mwh.
I stand corrected. The wholesale price of electricity in NY State did drop from $118 in 2022 to $36 in 2023. An amazing drop which I was unaware of.
Why?
Several factors contributed to the significant drop in wholesale electricity prices in New York in 2023:
1. Lower Natural Gas Prices
Abundant Supply: Increased production and supply of natural gas led to lower fuel costs, which directly impacted electricity prices since natural gas is a major fuel source for power generation. (from a high of over $9 to a low of under $2).
Mild Weather: Milder weather conditions reduced the demand for heating and cooling, leading to lower natural gas consumption and prices.
2. Increased Renewable Energy Generation
Wind and Solar: Expansion of wind and solar power projects added more low-cost electricity to the grid, reducing reliance on more expensive fossil fuel-based generation.
Hydropower: Favorable hydrological conditions increased hydropower generation, which is typically cheaper than other sources.
3. Improved Grid Efficiency
Grid Modernization: Investments in smart grid technologies and infrastructure improvements enhanced the efficiency of electricity transmission and distribution, reducing losses and operational costs.
Energy Storage: Increased use of energy storage systems helped balance supply and demand more effectively, reducing price volatility.
4. Demand-Side Management
Energy Efficiency Programs: Continued efforts to promote energy efficiency among consumers led to reduced overall electricity demand.
Demand Response: Programs that incentivize consumers to reduce or shift their electricity usage during peak times helped manage demand more effectively.
5. Regulatory and Policy Changes
Carbon Pricing: Changes in carbon pricing and emissions regulations may have influenced the cost structure of electricity generation, favoring cleaner and cheaper sources.
Market Reforms: Ongoing reforms in the electricity market aimed at increasing competition and transparency could have contributed to lower prices.
These factors combined to create a more favorable environment for lower wholesale electricity prices in New York in 2023.
Thanks!
You’re welcome!
So why is Texas covering 30 percent of its electricity needs with wind power?
Because that’s where the government grift pushes it.
Onshore wind costs WAY less than offshore so the break even cost is much lower.
Correct. Onshore wind is one of the cheapest options. Offshore is one of the most expensive.
It takes 50 kWh to fully charge a Tesla 3. In San Jose – at 45 cents per kWh, that costs about $25 (including taxes). Still a little cheaper than gas in California, but that could change.
That 45 cents per kWh does not include the equivalent of gasoline taxes to maintain the state’s highways. Many cities in the state levy a utilities users’ tax but the revenue probably goes into the cities’ general fund not to the state of California.
Tesla can only run on electricity so there is comparison to be made. But for a PHEV like e.g. Prius Prime multiply the electric cost per KWH by 13.5 to get the indifferent cost for fuel; it would be $6 which is higher than the cost of gas in California right now. But you can argue that running an ICE causes more wear than running an electric engine.
Yes, and it will change. Oddly the fools rushing to Electric Power over Gas, will soon realize the cost of Electricity is and will continue to rise as more gets utilized.
The sad part, is that we are raising the Need and Use of Electric, like it’s infinite. It’s not, and with more and more need for it, due to newer technologies, it could easily become a source not readily available.
We are already having electricity issues without EV’s and all the other Electric operating devices (lawnmowers, Trimmers, blowers, etc.) that are consuming our electrical grids available resources of power already. We continue to hear about shortages everywhere, and places going dark, etc. Is this truly the answer, or something more nefarious? A question that should and needs to be asked imo.
Lots happening And Not happening in the Energy World…
The indoctrination is so great that even paying 4x more than carbon based energy for wind based energy isn’t enough to come to one’s senses.
hahahaha…. this belongs in the comments Hall of Fame!!!!
Jeff Green who live in the anti logic domain of DelusiSTAN would say that paying 4x more is a GOOD thing… cuz it’s reduces energy use and helps stop goobal worming.
See — I can walking the shoes of a DelusiSTANI… I can lower my output enough to think like Jeff… but only in short bursts…
Living in California, it is very difficult to find something that makes me feel good when the topic is energy related. Fortunately, the crazies in New York seldom disappoint.
Sounds like price gouging… know anyone who fights this stuff?
5 times the price? Heck no. This policy will end up killing Americans a heck of a lot faster than climate change. Wait. Is that the intention?
Anyone who thinks wind and solar are sufficient should have their power cut off.
With chaotic and intermittent wind and solar you’re building the energy system twice. Once for the wind and solar and twice for all the conventional power (which actually works when needed) to backup the wind and solar. Wasteful and fraudulent, but that’s the Gang Green way.
Wind turbine graveyard…
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-02-05/wind-turbine-blades-can-t-be-recycled-so-they-re-piling-up-in-landfills?embedded-checkout=true
And that is why Germany has some of the highest power rates in the world
Nope:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1267541/germany-monthly-wholesale-electricity-price/
$119/hr feel good premium.