People not familiar with EVs are increasingly forced to use them for car rentals. Horror stories are numerous. 
Growing Pains for Travelers
The Wall Street Journal reports the shifting mix of cars means Growing Pains for Travelers unaccustomed to operating electric vehicles.
The electric-vehicle revolution is coming to rental-car counters, ready or not. Plenty of travelers fall into the “Or not” category.
Some report picking up EVs that aren’t properly charged, lack accessories or come with little to no operating instructions. Charging availability is also an issue on the road and at hotels.
Anne-Marie Angelo reserved an intermediate car from Budget Rent A Car for a one-way drive from Virginia Beach, Va., to Dulles International Airport with her 79-year-old mother in January. The rental agency didn’t have her car or much else, so it assigned her a “specialty” Kia.
The Kia Niro she got is an EV, which no one at the counter mentioned, the history professor says. Despite getting charged overnight, the battery drained quickly. With at least 70 miles to go on the drive, the range flashed 30 miles. She had to hunt for a charging station so it didn’t die on I-95 in cold weather.
The first location, a gas station listed in a crowdsourced app, didn’t have one. Budget roadside assistance said they couldn’t help because they don’t have mobile charging units, she says. By the time she found one at a car dealership, she had to move their late flight to London and pay for a hotel.
“Normally I can get from home to Dulles on one tank of gas,” she says. “I don’t plan for random stops in weird places.”
Hertz has made the biggest EV bet among rental agencies. It has deals to buy more than 300,000 cars from Tesla, Polestar and General Motors and a partnership with Uber to rent EVs to ride-share drivers. More than one in 10 cars in its fleet are electric, a figure the company says will jump to 25% by the end of 2024.
Turned Off Forever
The WSJ has more tales of woe and misery including that of Nicholas Cicio who rented a Tesla only partially charged, the battery drained quicker than expected, then died on a busy street.
Hertz sent a tow truck but the first three charging stations were a bust. 20 miles outside the city they located a charging station that worked.
This kind of nonsense only has to happen once to be turned off forever on EVs. Strike that, one only has to hear of these stories to be turned off forever.
With an EV, I Had to Learn to Drive All Over Again
WSJ writer Joanna Stern reports With an EV, I Had to Learn to Drive All Over Again
How to drive the car
OK, you know how traditional automatic-transmission cars creep forward when you take your foot off the brake? That generally isn’t the case with EVs. To move, you tap the accelerator. (Even in reverse, which can be a little unnerving.) As soon as you take your foot off the accelerator, the car slows and brakes on its own. You only hit the brake pedal itself if the car isn’t slowing quickly enough.Most EVs let you do “one-pedal driving”—that is, driving with only the accelerator.
Why change how we’ve driven for so long? Regenerative braking. These brakes use motors that capture energy and return it to the battery. Hybrids often have a variation of this too, but EVs are all about it.
The rapid, automatic deceleration can be unsettling at first. And some people told me it can make passengers nauseous or queasy. Don’t worry! On many EVs, you can turn off the setting or minimize its intensity. The Volkswagen doesn’t even prioritize it—you have to select the mode. Its default drive mode feels much more like a regular car.
Stern loves her EV. Great. If all you do is tool around a city they are likely perfect.
But if you select a mode that makes the EV drive like a regular car, why not just drive a regular car?
Stay Away From Hertz
Rental agencies are at the bottom of the list of where EVs should be used.
It’s one thing to have an EV where you have a charger at home and quickly discover which stations are both nearby and reliable.
It’s another thing to be on vacation, worried about whether your hotel or destination has charging stations, and not knowing the neighborhoods from the rental place to the final destination.
Since Hertz is cramming EVs down people’s throats faster than other rental places, I advise staying away from Hertz.
Electric Vehicles for Everyone?
On July 19, I asked Electric Vehicles for Everyone? If the Dream Was Met, Would it Help the Environment?
My follow-up post was What Do MishTalk Readers Think About “Electric Vehicles for Everyone?”
Please note Biden’s Green Energy Inflation Reduction Act Needs a Big Bailout Already and EVs don’t do a damn thing for the environment.
The Shocking Truth About Biden’s Proposed Energy Fuel Standards
In case you missed it, please consider The Shocking Truth About Biden’s Proposed Energy Fuel Standards
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration NHTSA did an impact assessment of 4 fuel standard proposals and compared them to the cost of doing nothing. Guess what.
The NHTSA conclude: “Net benefits [of stricter mile standards] for passenger cars remain negative across alternatives” vs doing nothing at all.
The EV push is a big pain in the ass for no benefit. Expect a lot of pain because it’s coming.
.
Thanks to Commander Mike for stating my position accurately:
“In reply to BT.
You should stop sniveling and actually read the article, which is about why it’s a bad idea for rental car agencies to force unsuspecting people to use EVs.
There is a difference between people choosing an EV in the open market and being forced to use them, especially given the noted peculiarities of driving them.
The issue is legitimate and deserves the press.
(Remember to read, comprehend, THINK and respond).”
And to those who call me a Luddite, what a hoot.
I have nothing against EVs. For those who do not drive far, they make a lot of sense, especially if the price comes down.
But forcing them on people, is not a good idea. Plus, they really don’t do anything for the environment, so the initial expense is too big of a hit for most. Finally, the infrastructure is not ready, the costs likely do scale , and the minerals needed are largely at the mercy of China.
But if you like your EV, good for you. For a mix of driving, I suspect a hybrid is a far better choice. For mostly long distance I would take ICE.
EV’s make GREAT Golf-Carts!
EVs are not reliable emergency use vehicles such as evacuating from a hurricane or wildfire. EVs may be acceptable for local area driving. As such, a 2nd car but not as the primary vehicle.
i don’t think anyone in history of mankind has been forced to rent a car. perhaps the C suite officers have a different take. perhaps they are wrong. perhaps they are right. way to early to decide. give it another 5 or 10 years. i remember all the howling of people saying ride sharing aps were crazy. who would ever get in a car with a stranger. or airbnb. who would let their home out to strangers. at the end of the day, all these things are choices. nobody forced to do anything. i do think the folks in rural areas are gonna be screwed when gas stations go the way of stage coaches. the big cities will probably have legacy gas stations 30 years from now.
I live at 10,000 feet in Colorado and ours does just fine. The town is rife with Teslas and Rivians with snow tires.
For those of us who live in cold places like Minnesota, EV’s are a poor option. As it would be for anyone who has to travel to Minnesota in the winter.
A better option is a plug-in hybrid. You can get massive mileage driving around home and a reliable gas engine in the winter and on long trips. To me, plug-ins are the best of both worlds. Sadly, there are few plug-ins available.
Norway has the highest rate of EV sales. Pretty sure it’s cold there.
No issues with EVs in Canada either I am told.
Like it or not, EVs are taking over. In a few years, all new cars will be EV. They’ll cost a lot less to produce and will be better than ICE cars.
If you plan on renting a car, you better get used to driving an EV. And if it takes you more than 10 minutes to figure it out, you’re a more on.
Rental car companies usually hold cars for just under 3 years or 30k miles. They sell them before the warranties expire. EVs come with 8 year and 100k warranties, so they can rent them out a lot longer before selling. And they hold up a lot better than ICE cars. And EV with 50k miles drives like it’s new. So, regardless of how you feel, they’ll keep buying EVs over ICE cars.
great points. grew up down the block from AVIS c suite exec. all the men on block purchased autos from his fleet for smoking deals.circa 60s and70s
It is spelled, “MORON.”
Derivative of moron, is MORONIC, which is my label for you LOW-IQ EV-HEADS, who probably believe everything your Government tells you, RIGHT?
Example: you wore masks in fresh air on the beach and you wear masks while SOLO_DRIVING your EV…the issue is that you have to emerge in the open air where your Expelled Lung spew, being expelled while you talk to your bone-head Pals while waiting hours to re-charge, infects your brains and your reduced intelligence is on display here. SAD FOR YA, and I am being kind here.
MASKS work about as well as the RANGE of EV only vehicles. We bought several EV’s and tired of it.
I know that. I didn’t want the post to be rejected.
I did not buy them this time. Did well on a couple of them the first time. Sold a little bit after the peak.
There are lots of ways to make money. Can’t follow them all, though I am always looking.
Thanks TT.
Wow. Get the vehicle you want. Lots of choices. EV, plug in hybrid, ICE, fuel cell etc
Its good to have choices.
I still drive an ICE. But I am a fan of plug in hybrids. A bit more expensive but they give you a little more flexibility.
I recognize that we will be moving more towards EV. But its going to take decades to replace the 1.5 billion ICE vehicles out there right now.
I imagine that a decade from now this debate will still be going on among those who care to debate.
The same for self driving, autopilot etc. It will get better over time but will take a long time to perfect.
And most self driving will be EV.
CORRECT. you forgot the best choice for old geezers. sneakers and town living. these 70 and 80 year olds are dangerous drivers.
thanks for oil picks papa dave. hope you bought the weed stocks. they are on a tear. when this happened in canada, it was a 10x until the blow off. gotta be a good trader for them. not oil industry.
Pay attention! Rental EV’s are new, maybe a year old at most and what is reported in the stories quoted above is a harbinger of what happens to EV’s that are charged frequently in fast chargers. The battery wears out quicker and they don’t hold a charge very well. Also EV’s only meet their rated ranges when the battery temp remains in a fairly limited range.
——-
Ford CEO Admits ‘Reality Check’ When He Took Electric F-150 Truck On Road Trip
Sunday, Aug 20, 2023 – 04:30 PM
Jack Phillips via The Epoch Times
Ford CEO Jim Farley admitted he underwent a “reality check” when he tried to make a cross-country road trip in the Ford electric F-150.
“Charging has been pretty challenging,” Mr. Farley said in a video on X, formerly known as Twitter. “It was a really good reality check of the challenges of what our customers go through and the importance of fast charging and what we’re going to have to do to improve the charging experience.”
In California, Mr. Farley said he encountered slow charging times. When using a low-speed charger, it took about 40 minutes for it to charge the electric F-150’s battery to 40 percent.
…
link to zerohedge.com
Teslas are different for the sake of being different. This makes them terrible rental cars.
Teslas have exclusive access to the only good public charging system. This makes all non-Teslas terrible rental cars if you plan to drive far.
I love EVs, have only driven electric since 2013, will never buy anything else. Using them as rental cars is not great for customers.
But they’re cheap to own and operate. Air travel experience is worse today because people buy the cheapest tickets. If you don’t want an EV rental, don’t rent the cheapest cars.
=, the history professor says.
yeah.. those proffesors are special bread of human genes!
=1 during signing up for car there was not nowhere info THAT CAR was EV????
i highly doubt it
=2 she-he did NOT detect car is EV!!
=3 she-he did not detect driving one. yes, it is true EV driven diffrerently!!!
=4 so i guess she-he figured one eventually car is EV WHY DID NOT SHE-HE RETURN TO rent palce and call simple cab???
I wonder will she-he sure rent company?
alx
It’s silly for rental car companies to push EVs down their customer’s throats given the teething problems; just another example of virtue signalling. EVs have their benefits, but still a lot of downsides which will get magnified once uptake reaches a significant level, a main one being the impact on the electricity grid. Convenience dictates a robust T&D system, a huge investment that in the intermediate stage at least implies low utilisation. When EVs are taxed for road use on par with ICE cars, when huge repair bills for minor accidents, cars getting junked for minor battery damage, charging issues become more common, the enthusiasm will wane. Given that adoption in the heavier diesel segment will be much slower, petrol could become relatively cheaper.
The charging situation sucks right now and the enthusiasm is pretty damn high based on how sales have been going for the last few years. Give it a few years and the NACS chargers will be pretty much everywhere. ICE is probably dead.
Sure, you can total an EV easy, just like you can total any car by damaging some body panels or a door. Cars are a pretty stupid way to get around no matter how you power them.
Unlikely that NACS chargers will be ‘everywhere’. Quite a few studies have shown that the economics don’t work. 2 wheelers make great sense, 4 wheelers ok for commuting, big trucks and heavy machinery very little.
The economics seem to be working pretty good for Tesla. So good that all the other car companies had to get onboard or be toast. The rate at which chargers are going in is astonishing to me, but maybe you’re right and somehow everyone involved is losing money.
That said, most people will rarely/never need to use a public charger anyway. It’s dead easy to just charge overnight at your house.
Exactly! The hype comes minus the knowledge of expenses. An ICE WITH 45+ MPG minimum (Lots of them available) and Oil/gas independence with cheap gas like we had, blows the doors off a EV in nearly every catagory, if your Truthful in ALL expenses, maintenance, your time, and other factors as well,
No Country, out of 168 or so, are ready for EV’s. Way to expensive and.subsidies just mask that FACT!!!
Really? Can you show me all the expenses to prove your point?
You don’t know jack about EVs. Everything you post is completely wrong.
Car Comparison (EV Vs. Non-EV) Back of a napkin…
EV:
Battery Disposal Cost = $7,500.00
New Battery Cost = $10,000.00
Midsize New EV Cost = $65,000.00
Outlet at Home to Charge = $5,000.00
Time (Yr) Awaiting Charges = $5,000.00 (Est. 100H X $50.00 H)
Cost to Charge = ??? $
Cost to Fill Up = $0.00
How Far On a Charge = ??? Mi
How Far On a Tank = 0 Miles
Non-EV:
Battery Disposal Cost = $0.00 (Drop it Off)
New Battery Cost = $200.00
Midsize New Prius = $31,000.00
Outlet at Home to Charge = $0.00
Time (is $) Awaiting Charges = $0.00
Cost to Charge = $0.00
Cost to Fill Up = 11G X $5 = $55.00
How Far On a Charge = 0 Mi
How Far On a Fill Up (45MPG@11G) of Gas = 495Mi
I’m sticking with my ICE that I can fix myself too…
You just made up a bunch of absurd numbers.
So I show you the numbers, and all you can post back is “you made them up”
Not at all, and you must agree, because what you posted is not a dispute, and in fact is more akin to a surrender but don’t shoot approach.
See I backed up my Post with numbers and facts, and although they are not perfect, as nothing could be in the EV now, but they are in general pretty close for comparison purposes on the back of a napkin, because I’m posting and not working… You Work???
I would never buy a Tesla, never.
I would accept and drive a Tesla if given to me.
As a second car.
Does anyone other than the Government, Climate Activists, and Investors really want EV’s? NO! is of course the answer to that simple question.
IMO, Climate Activists make money from the grift, and those in Government, financially invested, do as well. Most of the Government push is “Virtue Signaling” and “Vote Gathering” from the “Useful Idiots” and “Ill Informed” Investors just need places to park their money, so a Government Supported scheme is better than the alternative, and using Taxpayer Money to do so, makes it that much easier to succeed.
Most of the success that we hear about isn’t actually success at all. Quite simply it’s smoke and mirrors (think Solar and Windmills). In Reviewing the orders for EV’s, do you see a lot of “Everyday Citizens” placing orders?, or is it Government Agencies?, Rental Car Companies (with subsidies?), Federally Funded (Taxpayers Money) Groups like the Military, Law Enforcement, Post Offices, Etc. In other words coerced, nudged, spoken to or convinced you might say?
Regular Everyday Citizens don’t have 60K – 75K to buy a decent EV (what it will take), and certainly don’t have the money to install charging stations in there driveway, and/or money to Dispose and Replace the batteries when they go. A pipe dream for most, who are certain to get swindled. A Dream for others who Grift this Crap like there’s no tomorrow, and the legal teams, MSM, TV, eat this crap up for profits with no care of what’s real and/or made up, just show me the money.
The EV Push was done way too early, and at a time when the Country is simply not prepared for it at all. Add an oncoming recession, and cash even harder to get your hands on as an investor or Citizen, and it is going nowhere. Unfortunately by the time these ideas ever reach the masses, the technology will be extremely old and outdated for practical use. Probably won’t even work with the old charging stations, so playing behind the eight ball once again.
We are a solid decade away at best for whole sale change to EV’s (toss in solar and windmills too) and the infrastructure in place to support it all IMO. A lot of Hype, and BS going on and will help it to go nowhere fast…
Stu Phil has/has a EV until he needed the batteries replaced. The quote to replace the battery pack is 28,977.-68. He a hybrid lol.
Does that Also Include the cost for Battery Disposal? Right now the cost (if people don’t choose to trash them instead, so add Massive Cleanup Cost as well, down the road, and boy will that be FUN) is roughly $7,500.00. I am sure people have that laying around to shell out when needed, or not and they start walking a lot…
No. Battery recycling is a big business now.
Profitable for the recycling business.
Not so much for the car owner.
I have one because I don’t like lighting my money on fire. But you do you.
You prefer your Car On Fire?
Hasn’t been a problem so far, and it’s been 6 years. I see gas cars on fire occasionally on the side of the highway. It’s a risk anytime you’re using lots of energy fast, luckily it seems to be pretty sorted for cars in general, regardless of how they’re powered.
If you prefer oil changes and transmission repairs and so on, be my guest.
I understand and was just being snarky back at you for your comment. All is good.
EVs are expected to make up 14% of new car sales this year. Do you honestly believe all these people are climate activists?
Are expected? Let’s see what that number turns out to be, but my guess would be, for Citizens about 3%. The balance is on Taxpayers, but just the $…
link to cleantechnica.com
While I don’t agree with your general bias against EV’s, I have to admit that there are some bumps in the road in terms of applying EV’s to a rental fleet.
I drive a Telsa and do long trips with ease. After 3.5 years I have to say it has been the cheapest (total purchase price, maintenance ,fuel) and best car I have ever owned.
BUT, I would not necessarily rent one at a place I do not know. I has also heard stories of customers receiving an EV that is not close to fully charged. When you are not familiar to a city or region, this can be stressful at best.
In a few years, it will be easier to find a charger than a gas station. At the moment, that is not the case. Rental agencies should only be providing EV’s if they are fully charged AND if the customer wants.
Have they started charging EVs for the road use? ICE cars pay for the roads in the gas tax when they fill up.
Yes, and most of the fees are too low in my opinion. I see more and more “charge by mile tax” talk so that’s the next step.
link to myev.com
They will collect considerably more with a flat fee EV tax than any pay-by-mileage. For some things politicians are dependable.
They have in Washington.
A lot of jurisdictions have higher registration fees for EVs. Not really fair to those who don’t drive much.
I would like to see a well balanced post on the pros and cons of EVs from an economic and political perspective. Is that possible?
Keep in mind that I don’t have a car, I work from home and have everything I need delivered via Instacart, Amazon or dozens of other services that I won’t list here. If I do need to go out, I Uber and if it’s a long trip I will rent a car or borrow one from family so I am not pro or con EVs or ICE, they are both meaningless to me.
The benefits of not having a car include no insurance payments, no maintenance or fuel of any kind, no tolls, no parking fees, no car washes, no inspections, no taxes, no road rage, and so much more. It is very liberating but it’s only possible if you design your life around a car-free lifestyle. Living out in the styx probably won’t work for most.
Do you have kids?
Yes, and they do have cars, that’s the “family” I borrow the cars from when I need one although one lives in a different city now and I rarely need to borrow a car. My brother that lives a few miles from me has also gone car free.
He “copied” me after I told him how much money I was saving. He used to lease his cars and get a new one every three years. I told him to do the math and more importantly I told him to log how many times he drove a car and for what purpose. He realized 90% of his driving was waste or could be remediated by simply ordering from Amazon, local grocery store, or whatever. Virtually every restaurant in a 10 mile radius delivers and then there is Uber Eats, DoorDash, Favor, and a bunch of other ones.
Ultimately, what many people here don’t realize is that insurance cost, taxes and fees (like tolls) is going to kill car “ownership” for everyone over time. I am always ahead of the curve. I am sure there will be exemptions for farmers and others like there is special diesel with red dye in Europe.
And when it’s not economically feasible for Exxon to send out gas trucks to the middle of nowhere rural areas, there won’t be any more fuel for ICE vehicles anyway. I have already noticed a whole bunch of gas stations shutting down in some rural areas and smaller cities around me.
And then there is my mother that at nearly 80 went out and bought a new car after my brother and I told her to try Uber and delivery service but she insisted she needed a car for her once weekly trip to the grocery store. The car sits in her garage the rest of the time. Such a waste.
The world changes every day and some people change with it and others get left behind like stubborn mules.
You will own nothing and will be happy.
One of the best parts of owning a car is freedom to go where you want when you want. If I didn’t have a car my horizon would shrink to what is immediately around me and it would narrow my horizons in a way that would make me feel confined and imprisoned. Occasionally renting a car would not fill this need because the car would not be immediately available and it would not be mine. I do not mind the expense because that freedom owning a car gives is well worth the cost because it gives me something inestimable.
HA HA HA. WHINING CUNNING BUNCH OF RUNTS. OR IS IT RUNNING BUNCH OF CUNTS?
I find it strange that a guy who is rolling in cash (regularly rolling 300K plus in T-Bills, riding the money train on various stocks etc) is worried about or even noticing the expense of owning a car.
At the kind of income and assets you profess to have, owning a car, even a very expensive one would be nothing.
The guy who has had 10 different pseudonyms on this forum and some have no kids, some have kids, some have a car, some don’t is full of it?
You don’t say.
If I need to go somewhere I just have my personal secretary ask the driver to bring a car around.
I just don’t know what all the fuss is about.
No car is the best if you can get to what you need. When I was carless and needed to rent, I’d splurge on a vette or something cool.
The most fun was the Lamborghini.
=I need delivered via Instacart, Amazon or dozens of other services
another mor$$onic post. i dont own a car!
YES YOU DO BUDDY. YES YOU DO.
———-
how do you think THOSE GOOD ARE DELIVERED / PRODUCED ??/
buddy you are not special snowflake.!!!
there are almost 9 bil people on earth, and 330 mil in USA.
THUS YOU NOT USING a car personally , means NOTHING
AGAIN., NOTHING!!
ALX
dude, uber is ride sharing. literally. you dope.
BINGO. ANOTHER WINNER
I drove my rental buggy to the nearest grain depot, and no matter how hard I tried I couldn’t get it to eat the hay. At that point the clerk there told me I needed to take it to some newfangled “gas station” thingy.
These new horseless buggies are a complete failure, NO ONE is going to buy them!
.
It pretty well says all. Why do most against a solution rather fight than become part of the solution. There are other solutions, like driving a high gas mileage car, rather than driving a a gas guzzling pickup or SUV.
My next car will be >35 MPG ICE. Even then the electronics will be worse than driving drunk. The engineer’s creed is K.I.S.S Keep It Simple, Stupid.
So you’re picking the car with 10,000 more moving parts?
Maybe you meant “Keep it stupid, simple”
Right, not to mention the maintenance fees for EV’s, oil, transmission replacements etc.
ICE’s are so much cheaper.
.
They’re afraid of having to learn about something new.
HA HA HA. WHINING CUNNING BUNCH OF RUNTS. OR IS IT RUNNING BUNCH OF CUNTS?
“At that point the clerk there told me I needed to take it to some newfangled gas station thingy.”
You should add that it took me forever to find out where the new gas station thingy was located. There was only one in town, and I did not even have cell phone service to find out where it was – drove around looking for it and ran out of gas.
There is no infrastructure to even refill the gas stations with more gas – the oil refinery is so far away. I heard once someone went to buy gas and the station had even run out!
Grain for my horse comes from the field next door.
This new tech is really not going to work.
Tesla tapped the available supply of EV suckers. GM and Ford have a 90 day supply on the lot that will never sell. The fun part comes when an electric car gets to the junk yard and they put it into their crusher. Steel and aluminum do melt and burn.
All the batteries are recycled or repurposed now. Battery recycling is very profitable now.
Problem is GM is designing their EVs like they design their ICE vehicles. They have a retro 1990s feel.
Driving a GM vehicles feel like using one of those old flip feature Nokia phones vs using a new iphone. GM is trying to improve, but are too stuck in their old mindset – they just keep adding more features and more buttons – instead of just making the tech work.
If Joana Stern of WSJ has a problem driving an EV
I imagine the problems she would have driving a stick shift.
I personally find that auto transmission creep annoying. I’d be much happier with a clutch and a five speed, or even a six speed.
You should have heard the horrible noise coming from the automatic easing the camper does the really steep hill from the lake. The transmission has some sort of hill descent control, but it was not happy.
I will admit after decades of research they did finally get an automatic that does not go berserk hunting between the same two gears on a steep hill climb even without the camper.
stick shifts as a teenager visiting SF. red lights up those city boulevards. i feel sweaty just thinking of it. so scary. ha ha ha. what a bunch of whining rich world geezers this joint is.
Yup. I remember well my first red light in SF coming up a steep hill with a stick shift.
It is a breeze now with manual transmissions on hills. Cars are designed to auto-engage the hand brake for the split second it takes to move your foot from brake to accelerator. Makes it super easy – can even eat a sandwich and drive stop start on hills these days.
Automatics are so boring to drive.
Very little choice for manual transmission vehicles on the market these days, my next car will be EV – more fun to drive than automatic.
OH, DOUGGIE, you want her to drive YOUR stickshift.
HMM, that was kind of sexually-harassing, if you ask me.
Just sayin’. 😉
David — howabout this: you do your part and sit your jumbo arse down instead of conveying all over the place by way of this or that toxifying means. Petroleum, lithium…it’s all poison and 90% of all individual travel is purely discretionary.
Teething problems?
I totally accept that I’m far from the norm.
Just over 2 years ago I tried a new app called Turo. Check it out if you’ve never heard of it.
I was interested in buying a Tesla and my family flew to NC for a cross-country meet. So I wanted to rent a Tesla to see if I’d really like one. Not only did I rent one for a fraction of a compatible ICE car, but I also had the ability to contact the owner of the car at any time in case I had any questions or trouble. 2 days after that trip I placed my order for a 3 performance that goes 0-60 in 3 seconds.
My biggest surprise to me was how slow the charger is that comes with it. After 12 hours of charging I thought for sure it would be almost fully charged but it only added 33% or 95miles. I was happy I paid the additional $15 so I could return it at any battery level.
Now we are booking a trip to Boise for Thanksgiving and I’m looking at the full size Bronco on Turo. They are only $100/day and one guy allows 1,000 miles.
Maybe a Bronco will be in my near future?
Gotta have a 30 amp charger, on 220v. Costs about $500. Charges full in a few hours, so that works for overnight.
I charge off my dryer plug. I set it to 26 amps because at 30 it trips the breaker every now and then. 26 never has problems. I can add 50% in about 6 hours overnight. I also pay 30% less for electricity during non peak hours. I estimate it costs about $4 for half a tank.
With fuel only, that “GOTTA HAVE” aspect kills the idea of using EV’s.
Yea, because electricity is so scarce. It’s not like every building has a 3 phase 220v outlet. No homes have ovens or dryers.
Interesting.
You have 3 phase at home?
Are you configured delta or wye?
Zardoz, As soon as I ordered the car I ordered a level 2 charger. I’m now charging at 48amps@277v at my work where I installed solar. I wait until my solar is producing 4kwh before starting it and it now only takes a few hours.
KidHorn, That’s impressively cheap.
Wish I could do that. I would have to install a subpanel in my garage to get that. Or more accurately pay an electrician to do it. My box is in my basement opposite the garage and is maxed out.
We get it…you’re incompetent when it comes to New Technology.
We get it…you’re so hard up to spam up profits on OIL Stocks that you are going to make up crap or slam anyone trying not to poison you out of their tailpipe.
BREATHE in that soot, poisonous gases and carcinogenic particulates and volativel Organic Compounds that you love from burning Diesel and Gasoline…what’s a little cancer among friends?!?
The Advanced Developed World has moved on. It’s never going back to fire belching Steam Locomotives fueled with Coal either. Get over it. Adoption curves are already showing that Peak ICE was hit and will never return. The US is the only country dragging its arse…but it’s rapidly changing too.
So, my recent life savings investment in horse buggy carriages, a, no-go?
the coal furnace i installed? i remember ice storms when electric went out tossing coal on our decorative fire place. those huge rocks really did kick off some heat for slumbering in front of fire.
I remember cannel coal in a rural PA winter.
The ultimate warm and cozy.
It amazes me what bone heads people can be. Please, read more and learn and then you will be qualified to debate EV’s vs Hybrids vs Conventional Fuel Burners. You are NOT qualified to comment, and your GOAL, should you decide to accept it, is the learn about the environmental impacts of EV only vehicles.
You are five years behind the learning curve. YOU are the LUDDITE when it comes to learning everything that you need to know to make a fully-informed comment here. I am suggesting that you stop proving you are an idiot EV_HEAD. Otherwise, I find you amuzing and entertaining because it makes me feel so superior in intellect.
I am a professor of commen sense, underlings.
Hybrids are a joke. You’re either driving a gas car carrying a heavy battery or an EV carrying a heavy engine. They’re the most unreliable type of vehicle because they’re insanely complex and have all the potential problems of a gas car and an EV. When EVs catch on fire, it’s usually a hybrid that the media dutifully reports as an EV fire. They only help the environment if they’re regularly plugged in, but since their EV range is terrible, they have to be plugged in far more often than an EV, so consequently people don’t charge them. So they lose all their EV benefits. Only bone heads buy them.
“When EVs catch on fire, it’s usually a hybrid that the media dutifully reports as an EV fire.”
I’ve forgotten. How many hybrids did Tesla manufacture?
None. I’ve forgotten, What pct of EV fires are a Tesla?
There is no reason at this stage of the “revolution” for anyone to be issued an electric vehicle at a rental counter. I cant see anyone with a shread of common sense leasing an electric car to someone whose never used one. I’m guessing this was a “The customer wants a car. Only car I have is an electric. Take it or leave it.”
I was given a Tesla on a recent business trip. Had no clue how to work it – they gave me a cheat sheet. Took a few rides to get used to it. Ended up having a blast – well thought out design and driving ergonomics. I especially liked having no key FOB – hate having to carry around those large keys in my pocket. Drove the vehicle out of Houston a had to visit smaller cities – but was able to charge up without issues.
At my second destination in Miami, they gave me a large ICE GM SUV. What a piece of rubbish. In comparison, I felt like I had traveled back in time 20 years. So many useless buttons. So many useless “comforts” for large over weight lazy people.
When I got home started to look at buying a Tesla and selling my 5 year old ICE vehicle.
Wait till the full cost of EV ownership hits. IF EV’s are great, why is the gov’t subsidizing everything? THe cost of all that will hit us all as well. Environmental savings? Yeah right. What is the environmental cost to manufacture ONE EV battery? Look it up. You will be surprised. Range degradation. Boy is that being sugar coated.
Range Degradation is a buncha BS…Just came out with a report showing it’s minimal and LFP batteries means that what little there was goes almost completely away.
It’s subsidizing EVs for the same reason it used to subsidize OIL, GAS, etc. and BIG Auto. Because they get PAID (Campaign Contributions) to do so.
At least with EVs there’s less health costs from less poisonous fumes being spewed by Autos. So we’ll make $$ Billions back from that in decreased Healthcare Costs.
The range degradation on my cell phone is a buncha BS too! (sarc)
WHO just came out with a report? Where is the link to this report?
exactly. the best example in modern history is the rural electrification and water programs. lights turned on and running water to backwaters in flyover country, by FDR and borrowed money city slickers. for sure much was for big business to have new markets of hicks in the dark.
And the Americans still have not paid back all the loans FDR took out.
Sounds like a lot of people here would have preferred to have their own generators at home rather than to build out an electrical infrastructure to provide power to their homes.
“We do not have the infrastructure to provide power to houses – why should I subsidize building for people – my generator works fine”
“I like the independence of having my own gas generator – I control my power – not big government”
“I heard stories – my friend Fred once lived through a power grid failure – losing power caused such chaos. Keeping my old generator is better than having an electrical grid, I control my own power”
YOU ARE SORELY MIS-INFORMED, EV-HEAD: it takes MORE CARBON to produce EV only vehicles: DIESELS are used for MINING Lithium, COPPER (huge use in the windings of Electric Motors) and so. The long-term cost of ownership is HIGHER with EV’s. Nonethless, I LOVE MY HYBRIDS! And, I do not care about the environmental impacts because LAND WASTE will never be solved unless we do away with Cars altogether and wake up to PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION and the Vehicle Manufacturers will pay off Congress to keep VEHICLES FOREVER. So, do NOT fool yourselves, you LOW-IQ EV-HEADS.
Let me guess: you are fully vaccinated, and you wear masks while you drive SOLO, right. Your level of intelligence is revealed by what you DO, not by what you SAY.
EVs are moving to a 48 volt system. Greatly reducing copper needs. And EVs produce far less CO2 over their lives than gas cars. And have much lower operational costs. Even idiotic hybrids.
Yup. The CO2 production and emission required for building EVs is completed before the EV’s lifetime begins.
Degradation? yes it happens….I had a leaf and it was terrible…I have a Tesla now and it is only about 5% after 4 years and 55K miles. Repairs? none. maintenance = just tires. Fuel? = $0 since I have solar panels in my house. So I care less of the price of gas.
My car is 19 years old and has 260,000 plus miles on it. Will we see any EV cars with similar lifespans or mileage?
Yes. EVs are expected to last a lot longer than gas cars.
As monuments of poor decision making, rusting away in your backyard!
As the battery degrades, the mileage range decreases until you have to fill it up every day. Electrons just want to be free…
We nearly bought a TESLA and the our Niece reported being stranded several times TRYING to find EV stations. This was four years ago. We had made a reservation for a S-Model.
Don’t worry.
The check is already in the mail.
Now I have to check on the car I just reserved for a trip. I DEFINITELY do not want an EV for this trip. I am a super environmentalist, but there are places where you need to use your brains about making these changes. If I am toodling around town, it would be great. Not on an extended road trip and places I am not familiar with. Good article!
“The EV push is a big pain in the ass for no benefit.”
If that were true, they wouldn’t be getting a market share that’s 1-in-8 or so and climbing. Minimal maintenance, fairly cheap refueling costs, good performance, and a relatively short (2-3 year) environmental cost payback period. Great commuter cars, but not great travel cars (so probably not the best choice for vacation rentals, but good for a business trip.)
I get it. You don’t like them. Move on already. I subscribe to hear interesting economic ideas, not the rantings of a Luddite. Can we get back to the good stuff?
Ah — thank you John Ludd, for this handy pejorative that the newness-obsessed followers can reach for anytime someone doesn’t say amen to the whizziest bangingest neat-o POW! new thang sitting on the shelf. Of course, the equally hackneyed slight return is to label you a sheeple or a lemming or a fan boy. Snooze
EVs are like break dancing in the 80’s; A fad. Outside of the top tier countries nobody else can do EVs, electric panels or solar. I have seen them taking solar panels and making makeshift chicken shacks out of them in third world countries. Keep making them though…meh. Also keep pushing trans stuff. Over 70 countries have laws against gays and trans. Go there pushing it and you will be jailed or stoned to death. The world does not work the way progressives want and never will.
End of the day there is no other substance like oil. It’s not going anywhere and whatever money anyone saves on an EV they will spend the savings on MORE things made from oil, not less but we will all learn this lesson together. I’m not even old. I’m probably one of the youngest on here but I have traveled this planet and seen reality with my own eyes.
The truth is, this was decided 100 years ago.
Steam cars>Tool long to warm up
Electric cars> too long to charge-up
Gasoline cars> best bang for your buck
“And whatever money anyone saves on an EV they will spend the savings on MORE things made from oil”
You are wise young man….
Holy Dynamo Batman!!!
Thanks for posting that comment BT. I agree with your sentiments. Don’t know how many anti-EV, anti-bitcoin, anti-(insert politician name) rants we will need to endure but I guess rants are the price we all have to pay to get to the economic analysis. At least I have an adblocker so it’s not a double whammy.
It adds nothing to the discussion and EVs are not going away no matter how many people don’t like them, can’t drive them or want to wish them away – it’s NOT happening (same for bitcoin & politicians). I think the right solution is to not have a car at all and that can be accomplished by moving to a place where you don’t need one. Human civilization existed for millions of years but if fat lazy people can’t drive 3 miles it’s the end of the world.
=ants we will need to endure b
don’t . just go away.
you are not lover of S/M? are you?
seems you are !
ha ha ha. exactly. pro tip to geezers. move to town. walk. sell autos. buy sneakers. keep fit and make friends with strangers walking around your type of town. my village of kings county, nyc is delightful place to stroll and do life. i can mug old ladies, and murder, too for nostalgia the 70s disco inferno. don’t come here. it’s a hellscape. keep raging and driving while your reflexes and eyesight weaken………….there are probably trees and ravines to drive off. ps do the math. nyc has about 10million humans per day working and visiting and living. less than 1000 murders per year. do the math. it’s basically zero. more likely to figure out how many kids elon musk and don trump and hunter biden have sired than witness a murder. please LOL. post some good 9.11 jokes. i’m playing Jenga on 9.11 with the students at school i attend a block away from ground zero.
Right there with you and BT on this. Don’t like it, don’t do it/buy it. Why should we not evolve on account of the rest of the world being less able to do so? The “weakest link in chain” argument is a lazy one. We can and should do better, always. One has the right to discuss oil as an infinite resource as was done above your comment, but that too is lazy and not a long-term solution.
I do not want to move to town. I moved OUT of town to be away from people that think you should move TO town.
And I can tell you that if we ever return to a state of actually free and fair elections, the EV craze will be voted out post haste.
nobody. is forcing you to move to town or drive an EV or share an auto.
pro tip. i’m in a history class now. boss tweed literally naturalized the immigrant irish and germans in manhattan in 1860s overnite, and cast their votes for them. elections in 21st century are powder puff games in comparison. i’ve actually worked polling places in 4 states over past 40 years. it’s always been “messy”
ps immigrants were 50% of nyc in 1800s. digest how sloppy stuff was. ranchers in west used to vote their mexican hands in town. the stories are endless. today’s system is squeaky clean in comparison
Even today Chicago manages a very, very Democratic voting process in the old Chicago tradition. It’s the Democratic precinct captains don’t ya know.
EV’s and ShitCoin will fail because the foundation they are built on are “earth worship climate scam”
If they were built on TRUTH, they could succeed naturally.
There’s a bit of a learning curve. I can see why they wouldn’t work for rentals.
nobody knows. took me about 5 minutes when i first drove my pals EV. and i suck at mechanics/engineering and driving for that matter. this stuff is rich world little problems. i’ve had hang nails that were bigger problems.
“Great commuter cars, but not great travel cars ”
Correct in one short sentence.
Unquestionably the best car for travel to the 7/11.
EVs fit that niche between walking/biking and actual travel.
Small but very popular niche.
= I subscribe to hear interesting
DID YOU pay any money??
buddy nobody owes you nothing.! so just use your own advice. MOVE ON OFF THE SITE!!
DO IT.
we all pay by eyeballs. we are the product. of many decades of attending asshole factories, i am the product. an asshole. we are valuable to mish and google and facebook and other assorted intertube sites. political punters have the funniest commenters, hands down. this site has lots of scolds.
Only assholes do not capitalize the initial letter at the beginning of sentences. If both your left and right shift keys are broken my apologies.
If Mish was a Luddite as you claim then why for the past few years that I’ve been reading him he has been touting his belief that self driving cars and trucks are going to be here any day now?
I can see every new car and truck being sold being self driving this decade, But EVs might be lucky to be 50% of new cars this decade. How well do EVs do when driving in winter in isolated cold areas? They can’t even use the engine heat to warm the occupants and they will not recharge if parked outdoors in winter. Or how about taking your chances with one in a place like Death Valley? Or where I live in Australia it can be 500 miles between towns once you go into the desert that covers over half the continent.
“ “The EV push is a big pain in the ass for no benefit.”
If that were true, they wouldn’t be getting a market share that’s 1-in-8 or so and climbing.”
Well I guess big subsidies are a benefit. The question is how many would be sold sans handouts to EV owners and in particular to people whose driving doesn’t consist solely of an 8 mile commute back and forth to work once a day? My guess is not many.
Maybe handouts should only go to big banks, then? And how about the scale of those spends? What’s wrong with giving a nascent technology with significant upside potential to benefit human society an extra push?
Wait until folks learn that EV owners will be paying $100s in additional annual registration fees (i.e. every year) to make up for missing gasoline taxes.
Upset because Mish is dishing on your new EV? [lol]
LOL, EVs are a great tech, but personally it seems like 10-15 years off before it’s a good idea for more mainstream adopters. They should keep developing the tech, however.
agree. I like most of your commentary MISH, but this is just blah. EVs are not just the future, they are better transportation now. I still have 2 old fashioned gas cars (no older than 5 years old). Nobody in the family wants to drive them anymore. It is so easy to just plug in the car once per week. no worries about oil changes. My electricity bill rise is way less then my old gas bill. I have never had range issues as the top end of my range with one fill-up (600-700 miles) is the limit for me to buy plane tickets instead. The acceleration and handling of the Tesla puts all my other cars to shame. Yes there was a bit of a learning curve (about a week). But it is hard now to want to drive the old cars with their 100 year old propulsion technology.
Well I can tell you I will never buy an EV for any reason ever.
Hybrid yes, EV no way.
You should stop sniveling and actually read the article, which is about why it’s a bad idea for rental car agencies to force unsuspecting people to use EVs.
There is a difference between people choosing an EV in the open market and being forced to use them, especially given the noted peculiarities of driving them.
The issue is legitimate and deserves the press.
(Remember to read, comprehend, THINK and respond).
Ready! Fire! Aim!
How is environmental payback calculated?
By the number of woke acquaintances that congratulate you on your EV purchase.
Love your reply
Old people, like almost everyone on this forum, don’t get EVs. Young people do. All of my kids and their friends buy Tesla’s. They love them. My old neighbors have the look of fear in their eyes when I tell them in a few years all new cars will be EV. Similar to how my parents feared cell phones and cable TV.
I am old.
I fully understand all aspects of EVs as any competent engineer would.
But I am not “getting” an EV.
Should the Government provide me with one I shall use it when appropriate.
You can call Mish a LUDDITE, if you wish (and clearly you did) but I have owned ALL THREE: Gas/Diesel Burners/Hybrids and ALL EV’s (two, dumped them fast). The issue with EV’s are those charging stations were not available RIGHT about the time I was at about 20% charge….in the heat, or cold, the range was impacted by RESPECTIVE A/C in 110 degrees F, lowering range, AND EV’s lose range in the cold. IMAGINE THAT WEATHER effect. WAKE UP EV_HEAD!
AND, I will make a vote for HYBRIDS. We own on now, A Lexus SUV, and it delivers 45mpg, has magnificent range and the GAS engine shuts down in commute traffic. IT REGENS power on DOWNGRADES and ONE TIME ONLY, we got 66mgp (I am a lead foot even then). THE POWER delivery of my Hybrids is amazing. We will shop for a new Hybrid ONLY in a year or two. Gas only does not deliver the mileage and we buy HYBRIDS two years old or so, which IS a challenge for us. MY VOTE: HYBRIDS!
What EVs did you own?
talking of MPG, I recently rented a diesel and got close to 80mpg on some routes. It’s a shame diesel is being demonised as they offer the best fuel efficiency
EV’s are not about progress.
link to zerohedge.com