If you think Canada has such a great nationalized health care system, you need to reconsider.
Death by Delay
SecondStreet reports 15,474 Canadians Died Waiting for Health Care in 2023-24
Today, SecondStreet.org released government data showing an additional 15,474 patients in Canada died in 2023-24 before receiving various surgeries or diagnostic scans. However, that number is incomplete, as several governments provide either partial data, or simply do not track the problem.
SecondStreet.org collected the data by filing Freedom of Information (FOI) requests across Canada. When the data collected is extrapolated across jurisdictions which did not provide data, the number actually nearly doubles, to around 28,077. These figures cover everything from cancer treatment and heart operations to cataract surgery and MRI scans.
“Canadians pay really high taxes and yet our health care system is failing when compared to better-performing universal systems in Europe,” said Harrison Fleming, Legislative and Policy Director at SecondStreet.org. “Thousands of Canadians across the country find themselves on waitlists — in some cases for several years -— with too many tragically dying before ever getting treated, or even diagnosed.”
Key Findings
- At least 15,474 patients died in Canada while waiting for surgeries or diagnostic scans. This figure does not include Quebec, Alberta, Newfoundland and Labrador and most of Manitoba. Saskatchewan and Nova Scotia only provided data on patients who died while waiting for surgeries – not diagnostic scans.
- If one extrapolates the data provided across provinces and health regions that did not provide data, an estimated 28,077 patients died last year on health care waiting lists.
- While some response data is vague, SecondStreet.org observed cases where patients died after waiting anywhere from less than a week for treatment to more than 14 years.
- New data from Ontario Health suggests 378 patients died while waiting for cardiac surgery or a cardiac procedure.
- Since April 2018, SecondStreet.org has identified a staggering 74,677 cases where Canadians died while waiting for care.
Another 15,000-Plus Euthanized
The National Review comments on Canada’s Socialized Health-Care Culture of Death
What a debacle. More than 15,000 people died in Canada in one year because they couldn’t access care in the country’s collapsing socialized health-care system.
But it gets worse. About the same number of people were euthanized in Canada in 2023. Some asked to be lethally jabbed because they couldn’t access health care in a timely fashion.
Free Stuff is Grand
Here are some comments to the National Review Article
- Adjusting proportionally for population, that would be 239,104 deaths in the United States and would make “Unavailability of health care” the third leading cause of death in the US, after heart disease and cancer but ahead of such massive killers as accidents, COVID, and diabetes.
- If the US adopted Canada’s approach to health care, where would Canadians go for their time-critical and technically advanced medical care? Living in the Great Satan’s shadow has its benefits!
I arrived at a similar 234,488 waiting deaths in the US if the results were similar.
Free stuff is grand, if you don’t die waiting for it.
I’m a Canadian and think the figures here are actually under reported and the situation is far worse than people know. Canadian “socialist” healthcare is garbage. Even by standard metrics, it ranks as one of the worst in the developed world, but when you factor in the number of people suicided by the system (many pressured into it) and the stories of people dying in emergency rooms on 10 hour waits, it’s a nightmare. Takes years to see a specialist and all you get before that are doctors imported from places like Africa that don’t even speak English and certainly don’t give a damn about you (push some pills and go away).
The reason this exists is that dopey Canadians are some of the most brainwashed people on earth, indoctrinated from birth on the holy sanctity of their sacred “free” healthcare. We are willing to die for it, literally.
This is why any American takeover of Canada would be perilous because there no more effective way of triggering and enraging Canadians than by saying “you will have American style healthcare” which has been held up for decades as an evil bogeyman despite the irony of thousands of Canadians a year going to the US for treatment once our system fails them.
I’m in Ontario, took 2 weeks to get an appointment with my doctor. He wanted me to get a cardio test done due to concerns he had. I’ve been waiting for 8 weeks now and no test scheduled
Meanwhile stateside, 45,000 people die from being unable to afford healthcare: https://pnhp.org/news/lack-of-insurance-to-blame-for-almost-45000-deaths-study/
Between 2018 and 2025, approximately 3.5 to 4 million U.S. citizens may have filed for bankruptcy primarily due to medical expenses. This form ChatGPT.
“may have” not exactly an oracle of truth and wisdom! Not to mention statistical analysis.
The same is true, if not worse, in England. I was diagnosed with a hernia in late 2023, my operation date was early 2025! My neighbour has been waiting for a new knee for nealrly a year. Seeing a doctor is usually about a two week wait for an appointment time. Dentisrty is even worse.
p.s. I flew to the States and had my hernia fixed within three weeks.
The data only state the number of people waiting for surgery or scan that died. The fact is that a lot of people die and are on a waiting list for things unrelated to their deaths. For instance, a lot of elderly people are scheduled for a cataract operation but die in the meantime. In fact, an ophthalmologist friend of mine had his secretary scan the obituaries daily for patients booked for his cataract list, because it saved empty OR spots quite frequently. So technically they died while on a waiting list. Do you really think that that is meaningful data?
I’m Canadian and as someone who recently was stuck in the “System” for a year I would have to say the Canadians that praise our Healthcare System probably haven’t had to get in line for a specialist, that can be a long wait. The System isn’t horrible, you do “eventually” get really good care but the wait times can be really hit and miss and sometimes down right awful.
Years ago when I was a child, I can always remember getting a doctor’s appointment usually the same day or the next day at the latest. Here in Rural Ontario if I call my doctor for an appointment it can take a few weeks easily. If I lived in a city I can go to a walk in clinic and the wait time is probably an hour or two to see a doctor but again if you are referred to a specialist be prepared to wait. Same for diagnostics, CT Scans, ultrasound relatively quick but MRI can be quite a wait. Again it depends on the region.
It’s not free either, based on my higher income bracket I pay about 800 dollars for the year. I think Canada should do a hybrid mix, private for those willing to pay the extra and public for the rest. But if anyone suggested this idea ut would be attacked with ferocity because any mention of Privitization brings out allot of pushback even though the System needs reform,
Do you want to become the 51st state and switch to the American Healthcare System?
Or we could adopt European-style healthcare, which is what Moi is actually suggesting. Now let us consider whether we should continue having American style education.
The best answer is usually a mix/hybrid of the two as a “one size fits all” approach is not applicable to all people’s situation when it comes to healthcare.
As a Canadian this article is horsesh!t. I’ve had wonderful Healthcare up here and it’s funny seeing how Americans are so against it. Wild seeing this come from Mish.
From what I have read, most Canadians love their health care system. It’s not perfect, but no system is. Here in the US, we pay 60% more of our GDP for our system, and our system sucks for a lot of folks. I think that some Americans like to trash your healthcare system, because it makes them feel better about suffering with the shitty American system. Misery loves company.
It’s far from perfect, and there has definitely been some strain on it due to the recent influx of immigration. But every time I have had a major incident (and I have had a few). I have always been well taken care of and had no issues. Be nice and reasonable to medical staff and they will be the same to you.
One of the reasons we pay more in the USA is that every other country in the world, including Canada, forces drug and medical device companies to sell their products at just above the marginal cost of production.
So, a US company spends 10 billion dollars to develop and test a new drug and get FDA approval. The pill itself costs one dollar to make. In a fair world, where the drug company can charge what it chooses, it will attempt to do an analysis on how many pills it can sell based on asking price. Obviously, the higher the price asked, the fewer pills it will sell. Whether pills are paid for solely by patients, or by some kind of socialized system (insurance or government payments), they can’t charge whatever they want even with their temporary patent granted monopoly because every purchasing entity has a budget beyond which they can’t afford to buy the more of the new pills.
But Canada and every other country only allows that pill to be sold for $1.06 each. What if the USA also did this? With a 6 cent profit, the drug company has to sell 166,666,666,666 pills before they have recouped their initial investment. And they have to do that before their patent runs out, at which point competitors can make and sell the drug, and the competitors make profit immediately because they don’t have to recoup the development costs. The original company has to apply for the patent long before they get FDA approval, so they don’t have much time to recoup their initial costs.
That means that the analysis mentioned two paragraphs above has to deal with multiple price points (one price point for each different profit allowed). So based on the mandated price in Canada and other countries, as well as things like how many people might need this new drug, they try to guess how many pills they will sell outside the USA before their patent expires. That gives them a baseline as to how much money the drug needs need to make in the USA before their patent expires to recoup their original 10 billion dollar development and test cost (and remember, they haven’t made a profit on this drug until that initial cost is earned back). From there, they have to try to guess the price/demand curve so that they can set the price at a point to maximize their income and hopefully recoup that initial huge development cost. This is how the USA winds up with pills that have to sell for $1,000 when the rest of the world only pays $1. The preceding also ignores the costs drug companies have from drugs that don’t get approved, which still need to be recouped or they go out of business. BTW: This is why the COVID vaccine manufacturers were giddy about being able to sell their experimental gene therapy “vaccines” without worrying about liability. That protection from liability allowed them to sell poison without worrying about having to pay for any damages done to patients.
The USA is the only country which doesn’t regulate drug prices like this. So US patients have to pay a LOT more so that the company can recoup their costs. Basically, other countries are pushing all the costs of drug and medical device development onto the backs of patients in the USA.
As a result of the above, the USA has created 90% of all new drugs and medical devices in the world since WWII. The USA is the only country that allows drug and medical device companies to make enough profit before their patents expire to be able to afford development.
Personally, I’d like to see a ban on exports to countries that do this. If other countries don’t want to help pay for the development costs of new drugs and medical devices, let their people die because of their lack. Unfortunately, that isn’t practical, because it is trivial to steal such intellectual property. Buy one pill, or one desired device, take it out of the USA, analyze it, and make as much as you want without needing to recoup that immense initial investment. China does this all the time.
There are other Canadians confirming.
and My next door neighbor who lived in Canada also confirms.
All hearsay. If you can’t wait, some procedures are done at private clinics. And there is always the option of going to the states to move a head of the que. Many Americans have procedures done at world-renowed private clinics in Canada with lower costs and better treatments.
If you have the money, there are no problems in either system. There are some remote areas that are under severed. Toronto has state-of-the-art hospital facilities and, in most cases, short wait times.
Canada has had a large influx of emigration, putting a strain on the system.
The problem with your comment is you’re comparing a belief system (yours) to actual numbers (data). Which do you think is more accurate? In medicine we call this anecdotal evidence. If you have enough anecdotes maybe you can write a case series. But n=1 is worthless.
A buddy in Toronto is waiting months for diagnostic scans that I could get the next day here in the US. Your sample size = 1 sucks.
Well,,, I have the expensive Gold Plan BUT!! since I live around sanctuary cities I’ve been informed that the wait time is longer! Yea form a few days to a month! So much for AARP where have the doctors gone, yea they are taking care of Medicaid migrants! Yea, I need an MRI will never get it, have the Gold Plan worked 47 years! A whole new era! Denver has put migrants ahead of us citizens!
With stats like this why do the Canadians bother about euthanasia? Its already happening.
Well, 35,000 American citizens died for lack of healthcare. And that was 10 years ago. Things have gotten a whole lot worse with the predatory for-profit capitalist sh***** system that Americans have.
According to a Johns Hopkins study, botched medical care is the third largest cause of death in the US. Something on the order of 250k per year.
Damned if you do… damned if you don’t.
This problem is easily solved by adjusting the numbers to reflect how awesome the American system is. Our government health numbers are exactly as reliable as the economic ones.
Ahem… those studies are from institutes like Yale, Harvard etc. Please check them out for yourself.
And that doesn’t even include the ones that won’t go to emergency because they don’t want to wait 12 hours to see a dr. so they take the risk and hope the condition isn’t fatal.
In 2009, a recently retired political advisor to the Liberal Party of Canada, Jerry Yanover died while waiting for his heart surgery in Ottawa. In those days, it was easier to access Canadian news media for free on the Internet and I remember reading about his death. We were born less than a year apart, but more than 15 years later, I am still very much alive with my US medical insurance and poor Jerry is not. Had Jerry been living in the US at the time of his death, he could have had his heart surgery within a few days of his diagnosis, instead of waiting a few months.
Healthcare can be replaced by having enough kids that a few manage to survive without it.
I went to whitehouse.gov/contact but strangely, cannot find any link to directly email President Trump. Anyone know anything about this?
I believe the whitehouse.gov website is purged with the change of each admin and revamped.
https://www.archives.gov/presidential-records/research/archived-white-house-websites
Behold the glorious progress of the golden age!
And you probably won’t find one. But you could try comments@whitehouse.gov You may or may not get a response.
If you get the e-mail ask him to declare peace to the world by executive order.
Also, maybe ask him to wash his posterior sometimes. He’s getting pretty rank, but he’ll get sulky if I tell him again.
Send it to me. I print them out and read them to him if it’s something he should know about.
What’s YOUR email address?
And the point of this article is? Click bait? Push Canadian citizens to vote to become the “51st state”?
And BTW: How many American patients died waiting for medical appointments or treatments?
The point is the US and Canadian govts are senselessly valuing bubble asset prices over their own citizens health and lives. A good reminder to eat healthy and be active because healthcare is expensive and might not be able to help much.
The Government in Canada is now using a novel way of reducing healthcare costs and those long waiting lists. Canadians now can choose MAID. A growing list of frustrated folks are now signing up for a permanent way out.
https://eppc.org/publication/from-exceptional-to-routine-the-rise-of-euthanasia-in-canada/
Not sure why you want to twist something good into something bad. Most people know when the time comes. Why linger the pain and suffering? In America, there are thousands of patients kept alive that are technically dead just because there insurance covers the procedures. This prevents someone who could use the resources but does not have the means to pay for them and lets them die instead.
There are many pitfalls in medicine for greed policy.
My brother in BC-Vancouver was very well treated for his kidney failure…and he was a senior…
Here in US if you are on Medicare you can forget about good quality care..heck, some doctors are not even dealing with Medicare Advantage programs..I found out this the hard way…
I wish the mafia health insurance companies will allow us to buy private health insurance to supplement the Medicare ( to pay for everything the Medicare does not cover )….
All Medicare advantage programs need the death penalty. The program is legalized extortion making medicine miserable for patients and doctors
Medigap policies are a thing. Availability does vary by county though.
Yes, the Medicare Advantage option has its problems.
The “traditional” Medicare option works much better. However, it is more expensive.
People who choose Medicare Advantage plans are mis/uninformed and believe that the often $0 charge for these plans is saving them money. This may be correct in very limited cases but if you have need of any major medical service, you are very likely to wind up paying significantly more under an MA plan. Here is a Perplexity summary:
My maximum annual out of pocket limit from my Advantage plan is under $5,000. Ever since I started the Required Minimum Distributions from my IRA, I have also been hit by thousands of dollars annually in Medicare premium surcharges which have nothing to do with my Advantage plan.
You can do that now with standard Medicare and a supplement plan. You don’t sound like you understand what you are posting about. Perhaps you should try to SEE out the TRUTH before further posting on this issue.
I don’t post pretending I know the “truth” but seeking for it..
My research shows Medicare is contracting with mafia healthcare to cut costs…those advantage plans are handling everything for the patient FOLLOWING STRICT MEDICARE GUIDELINEs…
No doctor wants to directly deal with Medicare, thus the middle man aka advantage plans…
If I’m ignorant please enlighten me Einstein…
PS. I was about to undergo a major TMJ surgery just to find out my TMJ specialist does not accept any Medicare insurance, he said Medicare pays him almost nothing and he opted out just when I got Medicare…
I posted info above about MA. MA sucks. Anyone who signed up for MA got snookered or was a fool. You can drop MA but then you’ll have to pay extra costs above what someone else would pay.
MD’s not accepting Medicare has been a common conspiracy favorite for some time. The reality is that something like 96% of MD’s DO accept Medicare. It should not be difficult to find another in your area.
Jerry Yanover was not as lucky. See his story in my earlier comments on this article.
I wonder how many people in Massachusetts die waiting for health care because there isn’t enough health care to go around. This, in the state that has mandatory health insurance and thinks of itself as having the best healthcare system in the country.
Eastern Mass. is a little better, but in Western Mass. there is a 9+ month wait to get a colonoscopy appointment. 3-6 month wait to see any specialist unless there’s a cancellation. There is a several month wait to get a primary care physician if you are a new patient. Most urgent care clinics here closed during/after the scamdemic.
The statewide ‘shortage’ of doctors and health care workers is not due to Massachusetts not being able to attract workers, it’s because it isn’t in the budget to hire them. You can’t provide health care without the money to cover it.
I wonder how many Americans die each year because of their bad eating habits, alcohol consumption and smoking?
They are supporting critical industries with their consumption of these poisons. Their sacrifice should be an inspiration to us all!
Actually, Massachusetts has a relatively low percentage of obese, percent smokers, percent alcoholics. etc. compared to the rest of the country but that doesn’t save them from having long wait times to get medical care when needed.
There is just so much corruption. California doctors are still under threat for telling their patients the truth as they know it to be, and acting on it when it conflicts with the official narrative. Half the children have chronic disease. How did that happen? What influenced the positioning of various foods on the food pyramid? Why is the NIH failing in what is supposed to be it’s mission of health, which is in it’s name?
Are you suggesting that the food supply be subject to regulations? Communist! The children that are killed by chemicals in food are the ones that were too weak, and would only be a burden to strong, clean, white Americans. It’s time to clean out the gene pool and build a better race.
I still know you are not Elon Musk. Gene therapy products manipulate genes. The Covid product injured or killed healthy people.
It’s not any better in the US since Obamacare and illegal aliens.
Socialized medicine does not work. Not even in Europe.
AI medicine/care is the future. No MD’s needed. 24 hour service. No waiting.
Congratulations to the Biden admin and all democrats for creating and supporting the largest child sex and labor trafficking organization in the history of human civilization.
80,000 of 320,000 missing children located since the election, and the search continues. Investigations will reveal all the nefarious players including and primarily Mr. Mayorkas, who refused to do anything for four years.
It is a myth that we have equal care for all.
I can tell you that if you are without a Health insurance, it is almost impossible to get an appointment with a physician, as the offices streamline and let you know that they are not taking new patients. However, if one has an insurance, then the appointments seem to follow.
The health care as is, is in shambles.
only equitable way is to provide Universal health insurance to all and paid by all in the form of proportional health insurance based on income.
Why should the rich be exempt from the day to day inequities.
let us all bare the consequences of this trial of universal health insurance and see what happens !
If you want health care then you need to pay for it. People that don’t work wouldn’t pay anything. People need to set priorities in their budgets. I pay almost $1,000 a month premium and I have a $3,200 deductible.
Ha! I pay $350/month and have a deductible of $257. My only copay is $20/office visit. Thanks Medicare + a Plan N supplement!
Unfortunately I’m not 65 yet so I have to pay outrageous premium. My husband only pays $151.46 for his medicare supplement and has no copays. He only has the same Medicare deductible as everyone else. I think it raised to $250 in 2025. After deductible everything is free. All of his medications are also free. My brother is an insurance broker so he’s able to give us the best plans/premiums.
yes. Canada’s healthcare has deteriorated over the decades. for sure. doesn’t help that the morons in charge prefer to send $5B cad to the Philippines to green their economy or Doug Ford borrows $2B+ to send everyone cheques. this kind of thing gets upsetting after a while. (and whatever else waste of money happens .. )
Canada should invest more in healthcare, education, military/police, etc and stay out of everything else.
The Vermont healthcare system gives Canadians a 30% discount if they pay cash. It’s big business for them since Montreal is only 90 minutes away from Burlington by car.
Life expectancy in the US is down. More kids have diabetic II. Most Americans are either overweight or obese. Doc appointments last 5/7 min. They load on us pharma, referrals for diagnosis, CT, stress test, surgeries.. Don’t blame them: we are addicted to junk food, fructose, salt and fat from birth. They feast on us bc it’s a waste of time teaching us preventive medicine. Med schools don’t teach nutrition. The gov biggest challenge is: how to do what we know what we have to do !
Canada’s Business Council is pushing to triple the country’s military spending while cutting other government programs. This strategy, tied to NATO commitments and US trade relations, would shift billions away from social programs toward defense contractors.https://jacobin.com/2025/01/canada-military-ceos-iraq-us
From RE, banking, social services and commodities to high end industries.
Interesting response. I thought that Trump threatened Canada with tariffs because of drugs, immigrants, and unfair trade?
They still won’t stop the invasion. They’re just going to end up getting a lot of people killed before becoming the 51st state.
That is likely true if Trump decides to invade Canada. Though I thought everyone said that Trump was the peace president.
There is a shortage of doctors in the US. Where I live most doctors will not accept new patients. The shortage appears to arise because the bureaucrats believe that increasing the number of doctors will increase the cost of health care, and because the AMA knows that putting a lid on the number of med school graduates serves to increase the pay of all doctors. It’s hard to evaluate the impact of government control of health care in Canada relative to the US – but it’s certainly the case in both countries that government intervention raises the costs enormously (approaching 20% of GDP in the US).
Canada spends somewhere between 12% and 12.5% of their GDP on health care.
Unrelated question. Is it accurate that the US consumes 20 million bpd of oil and produces 13 million.?
What a great question. And I will do my best to give an understandable answer.
Mostly Yes. The US produces 13.5 mbpd of oil, which includes 3.5 mbpd of conventional oil and 10 mbpd of light shale oil. We also import 6.5 mbpd of conventional heavy oil from Canada, Mexico and Venezuela. So, it appears that we consume 20 mbpd of oil.
But it isn’t as simple as it appears. We do not actually “consume” 20 mbpd of oil and refined oil products domestically, because we also export both oil and oil products.
Oil by itself is useless until it is refined into its useful components, like gasoline, diesel, jet fuel etc. Our refineries were built to use heavy conventional oil, and struggle to use the 10 mbpd of light shale oil that we produce. They can use around 6 mbpd of the light shale oil that we produce, by blending it with heavy oil, and tweaking refinery processes a little bit. But we cannot use it all so we have to export 4 mbpd of it. And as time passes, our remaining shale oil is getting lighter and lighter, which makes it even tougher to use domestically.
US exports include 4 mbpd of that unrefined light shale oil, and 6 mbpd of refined petroleum products for a total of 10 mbpd of exports. But then we also import 2 mbpd of refined petroleum products.
So to add it all up; we produce 13.5 mbpd, import 6.5 mbpd and export 4 mbpd of unrefined crude oil. So we are actually using around 16 mbpd in our refineries. US refinery capacity is around 18 mbpd, but they rarely run at 100% capacity, and some are always shut down for maintenance.
Adding up refined petroleum products, we produce 16 mbpd, export 6 mbpd, and import 2 mbpd, for a total of 12 mbpd of petroleum products that are actually consumed in the US on a daily basis.
When Trump says that we have all the oil we need, he is wrong for two reasons. We refine 16 mbpd of oil, while we produce 13.5 mbpd of oil. So we do not have enough domestic oil to supply our refineries. And we cannot even use all of the 13.5 mbpd of oil we produce because it is too light.
So we must import 6.5 mbpd of heavy oil. That is particularly critical for the Midwest PADD2 region, which relies almost 100% on imports of 3 mbpd of Canadian heavy oil to supply the 26 refineries in that region.
Hope that helps.
We have a large shortage of Doctors because of Obamacare and medical personnel that refused the Covid vaccines. Some reimbursements don’t even cover the cost of the care.
A much higher percentage of medical school graduates these days are female rather than male vs say 60 years ago. The women tend to work fewer days in the week if they have children and take significant time off late in their pregnancies.
SecondStreet.org is a free-market public policy think tank in Canada.
Facts don’t count if they come from people I disagree with,
There is one fact, names were removed from waiting lists because the person died, and then conjecture. Correlation \= Causation and there is no breakdown of individuals whose demise was the same malady they were a wait list for.
There are certainly issues, and they highlight a couple in their handout, but there is also the fact that Nova Scotia data from 2022-23 was said to have only 50 of 532 deaths were of individuals waiting for something that could have potentially saved their life. Extrapolate that and we’re closer to 7000 for Mish’s headline number.
https://secondstreet.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/DIED-ON-WAITING-LIST-POLICY-BRIEF-%E2%80%93-2024-Edition.pdf
Nova Scotia only has a population of 1 milllion. 50 people dying on waiting lists would be the equivalent of roughly 20,000 americans dying each year on government waiting lists for care or about 7 911’s annually.
This does not count people whose health was permanently compromised. You can be sure a similar system run by the exceptionally incompetent US government would be much higher.
Switzerland runs a system that is structurally similar to ours that is better, and cheaper. Rather than reinvent the equivalent of a federally run DMV only for healthcare we should try what works there.
And your point is 1 is too many?
My point is that the headline number overstates the issue by a substantial amount, possibly > 90% based on NS data.
Yes, the Swiss would be good to emulate- they make things run like clockwork!
Clearly fake numbers… they have no relation to what I believe.
And thanks to yourself you can post that on X! Huzzah!
The democratic party motto.
In Spain public healthcare is so good… that 26% of the population pays a private health insurance. If that quarter of spaniards go suddenly to public hospitals (they pay very high taxes for it), the public system would collapse.
So what do you advocate? There’s no “Golden Age” of health care somewhere in the past. A belief that “free markets” will somehow lower prices for an industry as complex as health care is delusional.
More than 26 260 Americans aged 25 to 64 died in 2006 because they lacked health insurance—more than twice as many as were murdered, Families USA said. In the seven years from 2000 to 2006 an estimated 162 700 Americans died because of lack of health insurance.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2323087/
We’re working on sleek aluminum euthanasia pods for citizens that are no longer productive. After a gentle death, the citizen provides valuable organs for the wealthy, so they may extend their lives as far as possible to keep bringing amazing benefits to humanity.
It can easily be several months wait for me to see a specialist here in the US, though.
What an idiotic article. Canadians are healthier and live longer than ‘muricans, and they spend less on healthcare. Gotta address that elephant in the room before you start complaining about wait times.
There are 32 derogatory slurs for Canadians. Many of them are quite inventive.
You’re going to leave us hanging?
You asked for it.
The Racial Slur Database
Canucklehead is one of my favorites.
I was going to say the same thing Walt. No system is perfect. Some people will unfortunately die for lack of care. It happens in the US as well. I don’t claim to know which system is better. I think both sides of the argument make some valid points.
Ever since Obamacare, healthcare in the US has been on a very fast downward spiral.
Downward? How is culling the weak and worthless downward?
Amplification of a nonsense statistic. You could argue that everybody who dies other than as a result of a sudden event is waiting for some form of clinical intervention. This keeps coming up and is a classic fake narrative mechanism.
More useful is a comparison of specific wait times. This is complicated when comparing US to Canada as many in the US don’t even appear on the wait list as they are uninsured.
Having said that Canada does seem to have very long wait lists when compared to other public health systems. This seems a problem with Canada not the idea of public health.
Howabout some proper stats: Life expectancy at birth USA: 79.3; Canada 82.3. Infant mortality rate before age 5: USA 6.3; Canada 5.
Unlimited access to all care would be infinitely expensive in any medical system that attempts to prevent death at all costs.
Ideally, there would be a more intentional apportionment of end of life care, but Canada’s triaged waiting lists and access to lethal injection are probably as good as it gets.
It would be better to look at waiting lists for mid-life care to understand how the general population is served.
Agree
Life expectancy is the very definition of a nonsense statistic because quality of care is such a small part of lifespan. Our obesity rate is almost double Canadas which we know is tied to life expectancy. Our smoking rate is likewise twice as high.
FALSE. My uncle in Canada had heart symptoms and was told by his doctor he’d get an angiogram in a few months. My mom in the states flew him down that weekend to Chicago, got angiogram, multiple big blockages. Doctor said you’d be lucky to make it a month. Did angioplast that week.
I hear time and again from my family up north what a disaster the system is but people who don’t know any better in the states think it’s wonderful. Crazy…Be careful what you wish for. No free lunch.
as part of order to eliminate DEI programmes, US Food and Drug Administration curbs clinical trials aimed at diverse populations for cancer research https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/01/25/nx-s1-5274115/fda-diversity-dei-cancer-studies
There’s nothing in that article saying the FDA is changing the protocols of their studies. They took down a webpage. Typical NPR propaganda.
The reason mice continue to die in mousetraps is because they never figure out why the cheese is free. Same goes for liberalism.
Good try Mish. But “if” you are trying to be like Trump, and entice Canadians to want to join the US, telling them they will get better health care in the US is probably the worst way to do it.
Every survey or story that I have ever seen says that Canadians love their health care system, warts and all. And they don’t want to become part of the US, and our “most expensive in the world with the crappiest outcomes” health care.
Besides, if Canadians have to wait too long for a procedure, they can just come down to the US and pay for it, just like they come down to Florida and Arizona for the winters. They take advantage of the best of both countries.
Where is your data?
https://www.ajmc.com/view/us-health-care-system-ranks-last-overall-among-other-high-income-countries
I don’t think that ranking is fair, as it includes the non-wealthy, which are disposable. Let’s see a ranking for people with net incomes over 10 billion.
Then I will wait for you to create your own..
If someone dies on a Canadian hospital waiting list then odds are it wasn’t for something that was quick and cheap to fix. So outside the top 10 or 20% of Canada’s population the possibility of avoiding the waiting list by paying from their savings 6 or even 7 figures for treatment in the US isn’t an option.
And the comparison isn’t with the US system but with continental Europe which does healthcare much better than Canada.
This article says 42% of Canadians are willing to travel to the US for health care.
https://globalnews.ca/news/10322678/health-care-canada-us-ipsos-poll/
Being willing isn’t the same as being able. I’m willing to fly in private jets but I can’t afford it. I’ll bet lots of patients on Canadas wait lists are willing to go to the US but their finances means they don’t. And if they do go it would most likely be for something cheap like getting their eyes checked or something not covered by the free healthcare like a boob job or facelift.
Seems like many are able.
https://secondstreet.org/2019/03/11/over-217500-canadians-left-the-country-for-health-care-in-2017/
Who in their right mind that isn’t a multi-millionaire would come to the USA for medical care?
Look up “medical tourism”. Go to India, South Korea, Eastern Europe and more for much lower cost health care that is equivalent to the USA.
Good reason not to take over Canada. They would all move down here. In Florida you can’t throw a stick without hitting a Canadian.
Yep. And I imagine a lot of the pension money they spend on homes, and living in Florida doesn’t show up in the trade figures.
Maybe you need to throw more sticks.
That would likely raise our health care costs.
It would if you don’t have stick insurance.
Tesla offers stick insurance, with a very manageable 3 stick deductible.
Well said Papa….up vote for you buddy.
Thank you Woodsie.
To have an honest conversation, you’d have to compare apples to apples. How many Americans died (including the inconvenient ones living on the street) who died because they couldnt afford AMERICAN health care, if such numbers exist. Ive actually been kinda surprised all the health care you can get using the emergency rooms — we should all just use emergency rooms. My friend thru the ER got admitted multiple times and stayed overnight several times for high blood pressure. I have yet to see any reasonable comparisons in worldwide health care.
Most of the ones on the street refuse to quit drugs and alcohol or are severely mentally ill – often brought about by drugs. Being able to afford health insurance is the least of their problems. There is no solution other than forcing people into sobriety/treatment programs and asylums against their will. Reinstating vagrancy laws would make life uncomfortable enough where some would go back to their families which could put some of them on a better track. Until we’re willing to be less absolutist about civil liberties, the number of homeless will continue to increase.
Destroying all those valuable organs with drugs should be a capital offense.
The Canadian healthcare system is a joke. My mother had cancer for more than a year with symptoms but there is no enough money for CT scans, ultrasounds and MRI’s. She ended up waiting in emergency for 12 hours in pain before being admitted to hospital. She died 5 weeks later. Free healthcare means everyone will be waiting for help. Canada’s healthcare is good at making people comfortable before they die but can’t cure shit.
Sorry to hear that. God bless you.
Socialize medicine in the US for US citizens younger than 18 years. Do away with medicare and medicaid for all those 18 years and older, except in the event of being a victim of a violent crime. People will immediately take fewer risks once moral hazards have been removed from society.
your on to something there in that all children should have access to quality healthcare no matter the cost. hard to get downvotes there.
In comparison, US health care is great and getting greater. The highlights: US health care contributes 20 percent to GDP, and our life expectancies are stagnating at best. Take this: If US life expectancy over the last 8 years would have increased in line with Canada (about 1 year from 82 to 83 years), more than 250,000 Americans would still be alive.
Canada could become a territory or protectorate like Puerto Rico. Canadian civilization is not advanced enough to become a state. When trade with Canada comes to a dead stop we’ll have to make our own maple syrup.
Don’t forget about curling.
The article makes no sense. If you need a heart operation, presumably to live, then why not fly to Asia, Latin America or anywhere in the world for that matter and pay out of pocket? And what are the ages of those people dying because if they’re all in their 70s or 80s there was not much anything could be done anyway, lifespan has a limit.
There will be plenty of waiting in the U.S. as more and more boomers retire and then use the healthcare system while on social programs like medicare and medicaid. Add to it the insane anti-abortion laws that have already caused healthcare crisis in states like Texas and Idaho where med students and doctors are fleeing the states.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/12/02/the-texas-ob-gyn-exodus
It has been well known that healthcare in rural U.S. is a total nightmare.
Come to beautiful San Mateo or San Francisco counties in CA. No residency required. Show up and you immediately quality for public assistance and free medical care, courtesy of our leftist politicians.
In the U S we spend an average of $80,000 for end of life care. That’s average not median. It is estimated about 12% of all medical costs are spend keeping someone alive at the end. This is a great waste in my opinion. I’m 68 year old, and whether I have to pay, or society pays I do not want to drain my life’s savings or society’s scarce resources just so I can sit and watch the television for a few extra months. The greatest and most significant thing we can do to contain costs immediately is allow people a peaceful and timely death.
Your wishes are in direct conflict with the drive for more income/profits by hospitals and doctors.
As a very healthy 76 year old Canadian I have been lucky not to need medical care. Care is there if you are lucky enough to have a family doctor. 20% of Canadians do not have family doctors. For my commercial license medical exam I need to make an appointment 6 weeks in advance with my family doctor. If it is an emergency we are told to dial 811 or 911 depending on degree of emergency. We pay for an on line nurse practitioner for perscription renewals or new prescription because we cannot get a doctor’s appointment. The problem is family practitioners are capped at an income level that does not justify them to take on more clients; as they will not get paid for the extra work. Our immigration levels are over whelming the system. Once a family is naturalized to Canada they bring their older generation into the country, to get free health care. The line ups in the ER waiting rooms is mainly comprised of people from India. The number of new doctors cannot handle the number of retirees and the increase in population. Our medical system used to be exceptional. Not any more. I feel for those who provide this social service.
Canaduh’s socialism is as good as Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, and Russia.
“Our immigration levels are overwhelming the system.”
Boy that sounds familiar, RIGHT?
you beat me to it………so many variables in the mix
Troll much, Mish? Of the 700,000 homeless,how many are receiving “timely” health care? The system is broken but incremental fixes won’t change that. Not sure this article Rose to your usual standard of clear economic reasoning. Possibly because there is no clear solution. Healthcare is increasingly inaccessible due to cost here in US, so whether it’s cost or an insufficient supply of doctors, isn’t the problem the lack of realistic solutions? Otherwise, it’s just complaining about the weather.
The system is not perfect. But my experience is the big things do get taken care of pretty expediently. Plus, Canadians – particularly poorer ones don’t hesitate to get things checked out early because there is no cost barrier. Those points are reflected in life expectancy that is about 4 years longer than Americans (although the gun death rate 8 times higher per captia in the US may contribute that).
Our continually biggest issue with health care is that a large portion of doctors and nurses graduating from our almost free world class universities end up going to the US for the bloated salaries there. We are chronically under staffed at hospitals.Excesses in the US are a brain-drain on many nations with the us spending 50% more per capital than the next highest spending nation (Switzerland) and double that of Canada. Despite all that.I think we get a much better bang for our buck.
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#GDP%20per%20capita%20and%20health%20consumption%20spending%20per%20capita,%202022%20(U.S.%20dollars,%20PPP%20adjusted)
Gun deaths barely affect average lifespan. Americans eat a lot of terrible food and that’s especially true among the poor. Drive through the hood and it’s all fried foods and liquor stores.
There is simply too much being spent on medical care for people that are going to die eventually, anyway. This money needs to go toward extending the lifespans of the wealthy!
I’m not looking for the US to move to a socialized medicine model, but I think we all can agree that it needs to be overhauled to make it more transparent & cost effective. With absolute certainty, I can say that healthcare is THE spiraling out of control cost that’s going to bankrupt us.
UHC’s 2024 revenues were $400B, meaning one company consumed about 1 out of every 5 dollars in healthcare spending. That’s mind boggling.
I get the article makes a good political point, but it lacks definition. I have an uncle here in Florida who died waiting for an appointment. He was 88 and his heart was going through a little arythmia which concerned him. He got an appointment with a cardiologist 3 weeks out and had a heart attack a few days before the appointment. But here’s the point: 1. He was 88, and 2. 3 weeks out is pretty common for cardiologists in the US in non-emergency situations. Finally, I noted that a commenter in the article was comparing the weakness of the Canadian system to top-rated European socialist systems, not the US. So what is the rate in the US? Is it even measured? Do we know that said death rate is dramatically better?
There are lies, there are d a m lies and then there are statistics. How many people in the US die from either lack of coverage or avoidance of seeing a physician because of exorbitantly high deductibles? In addition many people limit their employment so they don’t exceed the wage limit for free Obamacare. This puts a drag on productivity and taxes. Btw I hate obamacare it fubb’d the entire healthcare system. The Canadian system has many flaws but its per capita costs are about one half of the USA’s and they overall have much better health. We rank dead last in health in all the industrialized world. We do have the capacity to design a single payer system that works but because we have the best government money can buy the insurance lobby won’t let it happen. There are many other countries with a well functioning single payer system, at one point France, hard to believe, had the best system.