The Covid Data Speaks Loudly – Get Vaccinated, Stop the Herd Immunity Nonsense

Accused of Being Mainstream 

What a hoot, but totally expected.

My views on the Fed, gold, free markets, inflation, and monetary printing are hardly mainstream.

But anyone who disagrees with Trump or the anti-vaxxers immediately becomes a target of the conspiracy believers and the vaccine sceptics.

Covid’s Hidden Toll: One Million Children Who Lost Parents

Please consider Covid’s Hidden Toll: One Million Children Who Lost Parents.

A year and a half into the Covid-19 pandemic, contagious variants have been killing many in the prime of parenthood, a group that remains mostly unvaccinated in many parts of the world. From March 2020 to April 2021, an estimated 1.1 million children lost a primary caregiver to the virus, according to a recent study in the medical journal the Lancet.

Many of the most affected countries are in Latin America, which accounts for about one-third of coronavirus deaths despite having just 8% of the global population. On a per capita basis, Peru has been the hardest hit, with an estimated 10.2 children per 1,000 losing a primary caregiver, according to the study published in the Lancet. Mexico, Brazil and Colombia also are in the study’s top five.

That data stems from the Lancelet study Global minimum estimates of children affected by COVID-19-associated orphanhood and deaths of caregivers.

Herd Immunity Nonsense 

Think about the implications of the above from the standpoint of herd immunity.

Q: How many people have to die before the nonsense of herd immunity stops?
A: The unfortunate answer appears to the somewhere close to 100% of the vaccine skeptics.

Data Doesn’t Lie

Overly Dramatic Presentation

I listened to about two minutes of lead-in drama (generally an indication hype and little else) before I threw in the towel. 

Cave graciously responded, one of the few times disagreements ever led to something useful.

According to Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche mass vaccination with non-sterilizing vaccines that result in very specific immunity creates selective pressure on the virus that leads to the escape and domination of more infectious variants. He also asserts that as a result establishing broad spectrum and durable natural immunity amongst the young and healthy members of the population is critical to achieving true herd immunity. He and Dr. Robert Malone both conclude that the vaccines being used should be reserved solely for those at high risk complemented by known effective treatment for the young and healthy when needed. This seems to be a more complex problem than just vaxxed versus unvaxxed that requires a more sophisticated strategy to ultimately resolve.

That is a position worth discussing. But I just did. Let’s recap.

  • A year and a half into the Covid-19 pandemic, contagious variants have been killing many in the prime of parenthood, a group that remains mostly unvaccinated in many parts of the world. 
  • From March 2020 to April 2021, an estimated 1.1 million children lost a primary caregiver to the virus, according to a recent study in the medical journal the Lancet.
  • Many of the most affected countries are in Latin America, which accounts for about one-third of coronavirus deaths despite having just 8% of the global population. 

With that, I now repeat my Q&A.

Q: How many people have to die before the nonsense of permanent herd immunity stops?
A: The unfortunate answer appears to the somewhere close to 100% of the vaccine skeptics.

Unvaccinated People Were 11 Times More Likely to Die of Covid-19

The Washington Post reports Unvaccinated people were 11 times more likely to die of covid-19

WaPo is normally paywalled but its Covid posts aren’t.

People who were not fully vaccinated this spring and summer were more than 10 times more likely to be hospitalized, and 11 times more likely to die of covid-19, than those who were fully vaccinated, according to one of three major studies published Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that highlight the continued efficacy of all three vaccines amid the spread of the highly contagious delta variant. 

A second study showed that the Moderna coronavirus vaccine was more effective in preventing hospitalizations than its counterparts from Pfizer-BioNTech and Johnson & Johnson. That assessment was based on the largest U.S. study to date of the real-world effectiveness of all three vaccines, involving about 32,000 patients seen in hospitals, emergency departments and urgent-care clinics across nine states from June through early August.

While the three vaccines were collectively 86 percent effective in preventing hospitalization, protection was significantly higher among Moderna vaccine recipients (95 percent) than among those who got Pfizer-BioNTech (80 percent) or Johnson & Johnson (60 percent). That finding echoes a smaller study by the Mayo Clinic Health System in August, not yet peer-reviewed, which showed the Moderna vaccine to be more effective than Pfizer-BioNTech at preventing infections during the delta wave.

What About Israel?

On August 26 I brought up the possibility that that Pfizer was less effective. I was criticized for that suggestion, now confirmed.

I would like to show some of the ridiculous replies to my suggestion but unfortunately the account was suspended. I would rather make fun of them than see the account suspended. 

CDC’s Finest Hour

The Wall Street Journal editorial board comments on CDC chief Rochelle Walensky’s Finest Hour.

Last month White House officials and agency heads said they planned to make boosters available on Sept. 20. They were right to prepare, but boosters hadn’t been cleared by the Food and Drug Administration. Two senior career FDA officials told reporters they are leaving the agency because they disagreed with the White House booster plan.

Resignation is an honorable path if you can’t support a policy, but that doesn’t mean the dissenters are right. The preponderance of evidence supports boosters. Vaccine efficacy against infections has declined significantly for people who were vaccinated early this winter. Israel’s experience over the summer showed that more breakthrough infections were resulting in severe illness.

An FDA outside panel last week hedged by backing boosters only for those over age 65 or at “high risk.” FDA Acting Commissioner Janet Woodcock on Wednesday endorsed this recommendation, but she defined “high risk” broadly to include workers who might have higher Covid exposure.

But experts on a CDC advisory panel on Thursday disagreed with her decision. Some said young, healthy people were at low risk for severe illness, so boosters weren’t necessary. 

Dr. Walensky overruled the CDC advisers and affirmed Dr. Woodcock’s recommendation, which is broad enough that most people who want a booster should be able to get one. The government will leave individuals to assess their own benefits and risks.

A booster shot costs the government $20 compared to $2,100 for a monoclonal antibody treatment. A non-ICU Covid hospitalization costs $33,525. Add the health and economic benefits of fewer infections, and the cost-benefit analysis seems clear. The CDC has made many mistakes during the pandemic, but Dr. Walensky made the right call on boosters.

Cost Comparison

  • $20 for a shot.
  • 2,100 for a monoclonal antibody treatment. 
  • $33,525 for a non-ICU Covid hospitalization.
  • How much for an ICU Covid hospitalization? 
  • What price do we put on a death?

Monoclonal Antibody Treatment

CBS Miami reports more than 10,000 people in Florida have received the monoclonal antibody treatment to try to prevent severe illness from COVID-19.

Gov. Ron DeSantis has pushed to set up mobile clinics offering monoclonal antibody treatment as a way to relieve pressure on hospitals dealing with a surge of patients infected with COVID-19.

That report was as of August 25.

On September 25, CBS Miami reported Florida Begins Buying Monoclonal Antibody Treatment Doses Directly.

Gov. Ron DeSantis announced Thursday that the state has begun purchasing doses of a monoclonal antibody treatment directly from the pharmaceutical company GlaxoSmithKline, after the federal government last week took control of distribution of the COVID-19 treatments produced by other companies.

DeSantis said the first purchase was for 3,000 doses of the drug sotrovimab, which was given emergency-use authorization by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration in May.

The governor said last week that he would pursue a direct-purchasing agreement with GlaxoSmithKline, as the state is unable to directly buy doses of Regeneron’s monoclonal antibody treatment.

Monoclonal antibodies are man-made proteins that act like human antibodies in the immune system. The treatment provides a temporary, but immediate boost to the immune system which can help reduce chances that a patient will develop serious complications.

“To put it in perspective, the most recent shipment that we’re scheduled to receive for the entire state of Florida is a little less than 18,000 doses of Regeneron. Our state sites just a few weeks ago were doing well over 30,000 doses just in our sites, that doesn’t even include any of the hospitals,” DeSantis said Thursday during a news conference in Tampa.

Meanwhile, DeSantis said the future of some state-run monoclonal antibody sites may be in jeopardy.

We may have to be making decisions soon about how many of the sites can remain open. We’re making decisions about how many doses each hospital is going to get. And these are not decisions we should be having to make,” DeSantis said.

Staggering Irony

Florida (the nation in general) is running out of $2,100 monoclonal antibody treatments because too many stubborn people are getting sick because they refused a $20 shot that is guaranteed to save lives.

As a side note, it seems to me that if DeSantis can suggest rationing, so can I. 

Tiered Hospital and Insurance Rates

Priority procedures are clearly needed. Once ICUs hit a certain capacity threshold, hospitals should consider rationioning them to the vaccinated.

The same applies to monoclonal antibody treatments. 

In general, insurance companies ought to be able to charge higher rates for those who participate in dangerous activities.

Smoking, refusing vaccinations, and being grossly overweight should all be grounds for higher rates.

Thanks for Tuning In

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prumbly
prumbly
2 years ago
“Data doesn’t lie”. Really?
I just read an article in the liberal media about the death of fully-vaccinated Colin Powell that went on to say something like, “but don’t worry. The vaccines are working. According to CDC data only 7000 fully-vaccinated Americans have died from Covid”. This is, of course, a complete lie – even though it is what the data says. The problem is that CDC does not collect data on breakthrough cases other than on a voluntary system that hardly anyone uses. This is very convenient for the narrative that the vaccines are working, but it is a data lie. Worse, the CDC seems to be in no hurry to start collecting the data properly, which it easily could, and I bet there’s a lot of politics behind that.
You can find out what is REALLY happening in the US by looking at those countries that DO collect breakthrough data properly. In Israel (same virus, same vaccine), nearly all Covid cases and most deaths are among the fully vaccinated. Same story in the UK. Same story in Singapore.
airballs
airballs
2 years ago
What a load of garbage, Mish. 
Health care costs in this instance are meaningless
unless
you are also willing to talk about health care costs associated with war.
zimminy
zimminy
2 years ago
There so much evidence that can be posted that strongly questions the safety both short term serious and deadly side effects and the potential for longterm serious and deadly side effects, At this point the Longterm evidence is anecdotal because there has been no longterm. You do hear suggestions of what could happen and allot of those suggestions are that the vaccine may interfere with your bodies immune sytem and allow viruses or diseases to take hold that your immune system would normally have easily killed. In other words a very compromised immune system.
This video is purely anecdotal, it’s not evidence but it is a reason why many are cautious regarding the vaccine and willing to take the 99.7% survivability vs the vaccines potential longterm risks.
Yooper
Yooper
2 years ago
Reply to  zimminy
Would be an interesting discussion to see if all told, the vacc works to keep people out of the hospital because it, in effect, suppresses the immune response by avoiding the cytokine storm that ultimately kills. ie, the vacc obviously creates antibodies, but suppresses the more important helper/killer T-Cells critical to defending against every other infection.
zimminy
zimminy
2 years ago
The narrative that is being pushed by the MSM is that the unvaccinated are the spreaders but the truth is the vaccinated are not only just as capable of spreading it but even more so based on the fact that they can carry as much or more viral load as the unvaccinated while showing no symptoms. This literally makes them Typhoid Mary’s.
A short video that explains it.
“Phd Cellular & Molecular Biologist Explains Why The Un-jabbed Are NOT Selfish”
Yooper
Yooper
2 years ago
Reply to  zimminy
The worst part of all is that those who were vacc’d think they can’t get it, and throw away the preventative measures like masks and social distancing, trying to stay outdoors, etc.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Yooper
No, the worst part is the people who think that the vax protects them, STILL keep up all the precautions because they live in fear and then they catch the bug and die anyway.  Like these people:
———–
 Grand Rapids couple dies 1 minute apart from COVID-19
By: FOX 17
Posted at 10:42 AM, Sep 27, 2021
zimminy
zimminy
2 years ago
I’m sorry but I have to disagree with you on this one. I have read a ton of literature that you will not hear about or see in the MSM that very strongly questions the longterm safety of the vaccine. Most of these doctors and scientists actually fear losing their jobs or even their licenses for speaking out and raising concerns about vaccinating such a huge population with so little longterm safety data.
Add to this the evidence that appears to be coming out that the vaccine becomes less effective with each variant and may possibly even cause more severe illness from future variants due to it actually blocking the bodies own immune system.
Here is one paper discussing the vaccine dangers. You can read the whole document whuch is very technical or just read their conclusion.
“Worse Than the Disease? Reviewing Some Possible
Unintended Consequences of the mRNA Vaccines
Against COVID-19″
“Conclusion
Experimental mRNA vaccines have been heralded as having the potential for great benefits, but they
also harbor the possibility of potentially tragic and even catastrophic unforeseen consequences. The
mRNA vaccines against SARS-CoV-2 have been implemented with great fanfare, but there are many
aspects of their widespread utilization that merit concern. We have reviewed some, but not all, of
those concerns here, and we want to emphasize that these concerns are potentially serious and might
not be evident for years or even transgenerationally. In order to adequately rule out the adverse
potentialities described in this paper, we recommend, at a minimum, that the following research and
surveillance practices be adopted:”
Yooper
Yooper
2 years ago
Reply to  zimminy
Being a bit demanding, but please stick around the forum. I just completed the MIT paper you linked to, and it’s not in conflict with close friends directing a 10+ year program at the University of Michigan researching the use of mRNA gene therapy for prostate and colorectal cancer research.
I’d much rather read peer-reviewed research than have CDC politicians tell us how to behave.
prumbly
prumbly
2 years ago
If “data doesn’t lie”, then why not look at this data from the Israel Ministry of Health? 
65% of Covid deaths in August were fully vaccinated:
Israel actually bothers to properly collect and report this data, unlike the CDC.
davidyjack
davidyjack
2 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
Yes people die even if vaccinated.   Most of those dying had waning immunity because they got the vaccinate at least 6 months ago and/or were immunocompriimsed and/or had major comorbidities (such as cancer, major heart disease etc).   

Vacccines are not 100%; Neither are seat belts.

Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  davidyjack
So your saying that you are cool with having to take a new booster vaccine shot very 5-6 months for the rest of your life?  Because Covid is never going away.
And here is a list of SOME OF the people (supposed to be less than 10% reporting due to the hurdles put in place that make reporting an incident take at least 30 minutes of time) who rolled the vaccine jab dice and lost.  How long until YOUR number comes up?
OpenVAERS Data
COVID Vaccine Data
VAERS is the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System put in place in 1990. It is a voluntary reporting system that has been estimated to account for only 1% (see the Lazarus Report) of vaccine injuries. OpenVAERS is built from the HHS data available for download at http://vaers.hhs.gov.
The OpenVAERS Project allows browsing and searching of the reports without the need to compose an advanced search (more advanced searches can be done at http://medalerts.org or http://vaers.hhs.gov).
1,545, 762 – REPORTS OF VACCINE ADVERSE EVENTS IN VAERS

15,386 – COVID Vaccine Reported Deaths

24,380 – Total Reported Deaths

66,642 – Total COVID Vaccine Reported Hospitalizations

144,557 – Total Reported Hospitalizations

726,963 – COVID Vaccine Adverse Event Reports
Through September 17, 2021
P.S. There is also a European version called EUDRSvigilance. It has a lot more adverse incidents than VAERS.
prumbly
prumbly
2 years ago
“data doesn’t lie”.  What a silly, naive statement. People lie with data all the time. The US CDC data for vaccinated deaths isn’t being properly collected and reported FOR SOME REASON – states can enter it voluntarily, if they like, when they can be bothered. That other CDC voluntary reporting system – VAERS, for vaccine side effects – is believed to only receive about 1% of actual cases according to several studies, including one from Harvard. If we have similar under-reporting for vaccinated Covid deaths we are talking about huge numbers of vaccinated people dying. That’s what is happening in other countries that DO systematically collect and report the data.
davebarnes2
davebarnes2
2 years ago
data speak
data is plural
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Get ready for your next booster shot suckers.
———–
53 cases of highly mutated R.1 COVID variant detected in California
By Luz Pena
September 27,2021
SAN FRANCISCO (KGO) — The R1 variant is the new strain of COVID-19 researchers are keeping a close eye on. The CDC identified “multiple spike protein mutations” in this variant.
“The R.1 variant does carry some mutations that allow it to be less susceptible to the vaccine,” said Dr. Joe DeRisi, professor of biochemistry and biophysics at UCSF and co-president of Chan Zuckerberg Biohub.
Dr. Derisi’s team at Biohub is actively sequencing COVID variants.
….
tjones60
tjones60
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Conspiracy Theory #1: Big Pharma Can Be Trusted
Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill
2 years ago
Those black robes Roberts and Kavanaugh… “Under the federal government’s authority to tax…” 

link to forbes.com 

tbergerson
tbergerson
2 years ago
Reply to  Bungalow Bill
This is my biggest fear.  SCOTUS deferring to the incompetent imbecile and his fascist dictates.  What happens when injustice reigns and there is no further resort to justice?  Violence.  Frontier Justice.
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
Swissmedical has reported the Covid-vaccine safety. We basically have 1 to 4000 serious side effect. Per dose. A complete vaccination is three doses, thus the risk of severe vaccination injuries is 3 to 4000 or, if we assume some under-reporting, it is more close to 1 to 1000.
For comparison, the reference year 2019 where the influenza vaccine was delivered in 1.18 mil doses, there are 42.5 more serious injuries in the Covid vaccines compared to influenza vaccine.
If you do not know what this means, the Covid-vaccines (2/3 Moderna and 1/3 Pfizer in Switzerland) are some of the most dangerous drugs put into mass population. This vaccine is really NOT SAFE enough.
If one wants to compare, let’s compare the risk of Covid death which is overall 0.2-0.4% (more details here link to s3.amazonaws.com)
to the risk of vaccine of serious injuries of 0.026%. On a first look, the risk of Covid death is 10x larger.
However, the stupidity of this analysis is that it assumes EVERYONE is going to get sick. This is not true. The prophylactic measures were scientifically proven to reduce risk. Thus, it is wrong, it is purely propaganda to assume the risk is 100% to get infected.
If my prophylactic measures that I follow reduce the risk by 10, by 50, by 100s times ( I repeat, I have not caught flu in the last 15 years), then for me the vaccine IS NOT SAFE ENOUGH. But, if I would want to go into clubs, pubs, crowded and dirty places, yes, the risk would compute differently.
World can only hope Biden will experience the dark side of the vaccine (assuming he was actually using it and not some placebo).
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
Reply to  CristiC
I meant to say that the Covid vaccines have 42.5 TIMES more serious side effects than the influenza vaccine per 1000 doses.
These ARE NOT ANECDOTES from antivaxers. THESE ARE OFFICIAL numbers from the medical authority in Switzerland. Case closed.
For some, the vaccine improves the risk/reward ratio, especially for those with chronic diseases, with fragile immunity, those that work in risky areas and those who do not care about hygiene.
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
Reply to  CristiC
@Carl_R, I do not believe that the following argument is logically sound. Not your fault as I saw it in a Chinese paper too that I will not quote it here as it is pointless.
The death rate that you quote (and those scientists quoted too for Taiwan), I tried to make sense of it using the Canadian data which is publicly available and it can be structured on age groups and disease cohorts. Did you know that in your death rate that you used as statistical backdrop are included violent deaths? And in Canada almost 10% are those deaths? That is not really the biggest oversights that the backdrop death rate hides. Did you also know that in Canada, almost 50% of the deaths / one mil are caused by Malignant neoplasms?
Now, the cancer is a predictable disease. The doctors can tell you some estimates for the life depending on the progress of the disease. Would a doctor enlist a patient to be vaccinated with anything if that patient has less than a few months to live? When the cancer is so advanced, most likely the patient is sedated. So, if anyone dies after a vaccine, the likelihood of that same person dying from cancer in the next few months is very very low. Thus, people dying from cancer are in a statistically independent cohort from the people dying from vaccines. Same goes for mental diseases and many others from the Canadian stats. Thus, it will reduce the actual backdrop death rate a lot if one removes the deaths caused by diseases that are INCOMPATIBLE with the vaccination. After spending a few hours doing this exercise and adjusting the backdrop death rate, I concluded that although the two death rates (vaccine and the backdrop) became comparable (I can’t quote exactly but it was something like 1 for vaccine and 6 for backdrop per week), I realized that nothing can logically result from this comparison. At best, one can conclude that vaccinating every week, will reduce the death rate of the population by 6 times…. which is absurd. And this signalled me that this comparison is logically incorrect. But as well, the argument that the weekly death rate of vaccine is a small drop in the weekly backdrop is also logically flawed.
But most importantly for me I wanted to reply to your reasoning about Covid side-effects and how my comparison would be incorrect. Please, let think sink even if we stop discussing it. The vaccines are not creating sterilizing immunity. There are studies which point to two effects: one is creating antibodies and two, very important, the vaccine seems to be modulating the production of inflammatory cytokines by innate immune cells in a viral infection. So, the vaccinated who get infected (and the ratio is not at all small) might find antibodies to fight the disease but more importantly, they avoid the cytokines storm which actually kills the host. To be brief, are you sure that the vaccinated who will get a symptomatic disease, will not suffer from long Covid? Are you sure that the risks that you mentioned (damage to kidney, liver, lung, brain) will not affect the vaccinated? The long Covid is barely understood now. But what is statistically proven is that up to 30% of Covid mild forms will be affected by long Covid. So, a vaccinated has both the vaccine risks and the Covid risks, together. The unvaccinated has more risks from the cytokine storm, but only if infected.
And last word about R0…. I do not believe any mathematical model that the scientists put forward. They failed big time in the last two years because they do not take into account human adaptability, social behavior change and cultural habits. I avoid any R0 discussion, it is purely speculative. I’m still amazed that people mention this topic.
Thank you,
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  CristiC
You raise a good point, that some of the deaths that occur each day are predictable, and that those people are probably not being vaccinated. Yet, it is also true that sometimes people’s time simply comes, and they have a stroke or heart attack. Therefore, if you just use deaths which occur in the week after the vaccine, but do not attempt to determine causation, you are going to get a number that is too high.
As for your argument that because long Covid can affect up to 30% of people with Covid, it must also affect 30% of people who received the vaccine, that is an error in logic. Whatever long term effects the vaccine may have will have to be determined separately. There is no reason whatsoever to believe that the rate is the same as Covid itself, which is precisely the point.  As for what percentage of the people who get long covid when they catch Covid after being vaccinated, that is again a number that will have to be separately determined. I have read that most of them have upper respiratory symptoms only and that the disease rarely reaches the lungs or blood vessels in significant quantities, which is why there are less hospitalizations and deaths. It would not be surprising to me if limiting Covid to the upper respiratory tract does not also lead to a lower incidence of long Covid, but again, that is a number that will have to be determined separately.
Essentially what you have done in your Apples to Oranges comparison is this: If a person gets a vaccine, and gets myocarditis, that is a serious side effect. If for some reason they end up in the hospital, even for a day, that is a serious side effect. If a person gets Covid and gets myocarditis, hey, they are still alive, so they don’t count. If they end up in the hospital, so long as they live, they don’t count, even if they are on a respirator for 8 weeks.
If you want to do an accurate comparison, there are several ways to do Apples to Apples comparisons. First, you could look at only deaths (Covid versus vaccine + vaccine/then covid). Second you could look at hospitalizations. Third, you could look at serious effects defined in some other way, such as more than a week off of work.
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
Reply to  CristiC
I understand your point. Hospitalizations are not the only criteria. Entering hospital in the first 10 days of the infection is just the acute expression form. It is too little for me. I’m not a Covid-denier. You might call me a Covid-scaremonger because Covid is not a respiratory disease but more a circulatory one with hidden bombs planted in the body to later explode.
It is too early to investigate the long Covid. Here is one study from Sep 1st made in the UK. But as you will find out reading it, this study is too soon. It investigates the vaccinated in the “immunity honeymoon”, the first 3-4 months after vaccination with two doses. Even like that, it finds that long Covid odds are only 49% lower for the vaccinated. Where do we go with this rate is anyone’s guess, higher or lower, given that immunity decreases considerably for the vaccinated. A third dose fixes that but it is not sure what will happen with the adverse effects rate (Switzerland has only two doses yet).
“We found that the odds of having symptoms for 28 days or more after post-vaccination infection were approximately halved by having two vaccine doses.”
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  CristiC
Your general framework of comparison is correct, but in my opinion, you have made some oversights. First, it is good that you did not use the US VAERS data, which is worthless for any normal purpose, since reporting is voluntary, and is unverified. Thus, anyone can report anything. In the Swiss data, it appears that they have made some effort to verify the data. Note, however, that the verification only goes so far as to verify that the reaction and the vaccine administration are temporally related (close in time), but there is no determination of causation. This is extremely important. In recent years, the Swiss death rate has been 8 people per year per 1000 people. Thus, in a pool of 5.43 million people, 43,500 will die each year or 835/week. Of those, of you pick 2 random days, and call those “vaccination days”, but never gave anyone a shot of any kind, 1670 would die within a week of one of those particular dates. This is an extremely high number compared to the 2,601 suspected adverse reactions, so we can be sure that there are a lot of suspected serious adverse reactions that were unrelated to the vaccine. (Note: Since the very young are not being vaccinated, and they have a lower than average mortality, the actual deaths from random events that occur close in time to the vaccine would actually be higher than the number I compute above.)
Next, you assume that the 1/4000 ratio for adverse reactions is dramatically low, and the real ratio is more like 1/1000. Yes, there are no doubt some adverse reactions that are not reported. I suspect that there are false reports being made as well, by people opposed to the vaccine. In the US VAERS system, where the data is unverified, this is no doubt particularly true, but apparently in Switzerland they do make some attempt to verify the data. I’m sure some false reports still exist, but let’s assume there are none. Even if there are none, the fact that causation is not determined means that some medical events that would have occurred anyway (e.g. the deaths I mentioned in the prior paragraph) will be reported at possible adverse reactions. My guess is different than yours. My guess is that the 1/4000 ratio is probably quite a bit too high, as it includes reactions that were temporally related, but were not caused by the vaccine.
You make a much more serious oversight in the next section. You look only at the Covid death rate, and compare it, not to the death rate from vaccines, but to the overall adverse reactions to vaccines. Covid causes far, far more adverse reactions than just death. If you are going to include myocarditis caused by vaccines on one side of the comparison, why would you not also include myocarditis caused by Covid on the other side? What about lung damage? Damage to kidneys? Damage to liver? Damage to the endothelial layer of the blood vessels? Long term fatigue issues? Erectile dysfunction? Long term cognitive issues? How about people who were so sick that they had to go on the ventilator, but survived? If the risk of “serious injury” from the vaccine is 0.026%, shouldn’t you compare that to the approximately 10% who had a more serious case of Covid?
Next, I agree with you that there will be some number of people who will never catch Covid. With an R0 of 3, that number might have been as high as 20% of the population. With Delta having an R0 of 8, much fewer people will be able to dodge Covid, perhaps 5%. (The flu, with an R0 of 1.2, by contrast, is much easier to avoid. )  If you want to use the 95% in the calculations, that is fine. That reduces the percentage of people in a 100% unvaccinated population who will have a serious adverse reaction to Covid to 9.5%. The risk benefit comparison of the vaccine to Covid still looks pretty good, in my opinion.
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
Thank you for reply. I just want to clarify one statement:
“you assume that the 1/4000 ratio for adverse reactions is dramatically low, and the real ratio is more like 1/1000.”
No, the ratio remains 1 per 4000 doses. But as you know, now three doses are required in a window of about 7-8 months. Although statistically it is not correct to consider each dose as a statistically independent event, it is that some organisms are more susceptible to side effects,… it is the best I can do. I.e. consider them statistically independent and multiply the risk for one dose with the number of required doses. Thus the real risk for one person is 3 at 4000. I assumed some under-reporting in order to round up from 3 to 4 at 4000 thus 1 severe vaccine injury at 1000 vaccination processes (not doses).
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
2 years ago
“In general, insurance companies ought to be able to charge higher rates for those who participate in dangerous activities.

Smoking, refusing vaccinations, and being grossly overweight should all be grounds for higher rates.”

As should any other fact or superstition. Insurance is no longer so, and instead becomes nothing more than yet another of Dystopia’s endless means of forced wealth transfer, once buyers and sellers are no longer free to make any darned deal they want to. 
mrchinup
mrchinup
2 years ago
Mish, you are being manipulated, you’re way to smart for this… More evidence of why not to get the jab. Only a complete brain dead moron would vax their kids.  link to zerohedge.com
tbergerson
tbergerson
2 years ago
Reply to  mrchinup
And there is the nub of it.  Mish is using really simplistic reasoning.  Making NO distinction between people in different age cohorts or other circumstances like already having recovered from COVID.
Vaccinating children with this experimental technology would be just plain stupid.  Forcing vaccinations on people against their will (and then invidiously discriminating against them to reduce their liberties)?  Just pure evil.  Not just bad.  Evil.  A word I rarely use
ILHawk
ILHawk
2 years ago
Mish, how do you make sense of this given your own distrust of the Govt system?
I’d give more credence to your comments if you supported:
Health care rationing and benefits for those who through habits have destroyed their health as opposed to truly healthy people wanting to protect their health.  
Therein lays the biggest issues.  Why attack healthy people who want to take care of their health.  I’m am in excellent health. My bmi is excellent.  There is risk to me, but it is low.  Those who have not taken care of their health will die more of covid and will die more of other diseases.
This weekend, I saw a couple wearing heavy masks come out of the hotel.  Just before getting into their car, the guy lit up a cigarette lowering his mask below his lips but still on his chin.  She sat in the car with her mask on.
One of the most ridiculous sights I’ve ever seen.
Leave the healthy alone with their decision.
Btw, what is your bmi?
mrchinup
mrchinup
2 years ago
Reply to  ILHawk
Mish only takes on side, the liberal side of this. He posts just about nothing of the truth in other countries. He’s afraid of this, the oligarchs told him to be afraid and he is. 
Bbbbbbb
Bbbbbbb
2 years ago
Reply to  mrchinup
I couldn’t agree less with Mish generally, but he is always a skeptic and stubbornly loyal to factual argument. Conspiracy theories and counter-conspiracy theories are a dangerous mode of trying to understand reality.
El_Tedo
El_Tedo
2 years ago
Reply to  Bbbbbbb
One cannot unvax. Good luck convincing someone with a lot of pride that they’ve made a mistake causing permanent harm to themselves. 
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
2 years ago
Reply to  ILHawk
There is a very fundamental difference between walking around with a high BMI, vs walking around in crowded places with a thin-walled glass jar full of Anthrax precariously balanced on your head.
In a truly free world, you would certainly have the right to expose others to bio agents to your heart’s content. Just as others would have the right to expose you to fast moving lead. Freedom resolves, as the Afghans demonstrate amply, by casually kicking the rear of an entire world ganged up against them. But once you start preventing A from defending himself against arbitrary dangers imposed on him by B, you’re also stuck preventing B from exposing A to said dangers.
ILHawk
ILHawk
2 years ago
Reply to  StukiMoi
You don’t understand viruses.  You need a control group.  The shots don’t prevent Covid, it protects the lung.  The vaxed can carry a much higher viral load than the unvaxed.  The vaxed are contributing to the spread and to the mutations as a result.
What is so hard to understand?  Look at how flu shots work.  They work about 50 percent of the time give or take and lead to mutations.   When one who is flu vaxed gets the mutated flu, generally they can be worse off.  
tbergerson
tbergerson
2 years ago
Reply to  StukiMoi
Really?  If the vaccines are so awesome, please do tell how it is that the unvaccinated pose ANY threat to the vaccinated?
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
2 years ago
Reply to  tbergerson
Those vaccinated pose LESS of a threat to others. Not NONE. Just as (at least most) people who somewhat follow the speed limit do, compared to compulsive street racers.
Driving through school zones at the speed limit, does not ensure you’ll never hit a kid jumping into the road. It just ensures, statistically, that you’re less likely to do so. Ditto being vaccinated, vs not.
Since nothing in the real world is entirely black and white, it all comes down to degrees of risk. By choosing not to be vaccinated you are, again on average, exposing those you meet to higher risk of contracting Covid than if you were vaccinated. Some won’t be happy about that. Just as some aren’t happy about street racing.
El_Tedo
El_Tedo
2 years ago
I really don’t hear anti-stabbers sighting “herd immunity” much at all as a reason not to be jabbed, and I am steeped daily in this issue. They talk about vaccine side-effects, potential long-term side effects, their own person risk profile (imagine that, people making their OWN decisions) and they talk about both proactive supplements (zinc, quercetin, l-lysine, C, B-3, melatonin and, of course VITIMIN D) & they talk about Vitamin I, AKA ‘horse paste’ in the event that they do get infected.
The “Herd Immunity Nonsense” is a STAWMAN. 
Oxidado Blanco
Oxidado Blanco
2 years ago
This should answer any questions anyone might have as to how bad this pandemic really is…..Its a farce…
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Oxidado Blanco
NOTE: All 2020 and later data are UN projections and DO NOT include any impacts of the COVID-19 virus.
ChrisM
ChrisM
2 years ago
Reply to  Oxidado Blanco
Did you miss this note on the chart: “NOTE: All 2020 and later data are UN projections and DO NOT include any impacts of the COVID-19 virus.”
People really stretch to find facts and will present misleading info to try to argue their side. That is the problem we are dealing with in this Covid debate.
ChrisM
ChrisM
2 years ago
Good article. People are focused on the emotion/politics, but can never show factual data that back up their antivaxxer argument. The fact that antivaxxers are costing the government more in treatment, are clogging up the hospitals and ICU beds, are consuming close to 100% of the available treatments for those that get sick, and are the majority of those dying shows their commitment to their community and families, and if faith based, their uninterest in “loving thy neighbor” for their own political interests. And for those that fall back on the low death rate of 1.6%, wonder how many people would board an airplane today if you knew 53 planes would crash in America that day. Heh, it is only 1.6% so your odds of dying would be low. 
KidHorn
KidHorn
2 years ago
Reply to  ChrisM
COVID death rates range from 0.5% to 0.02%, depending on what data you believe. Not anywhere near 1.6%. And where are hospitals having their ICU beds clogged with COVID patients?
mrchinup
mrchinup
2 years ago
Reply to  ChrisM
Keep on watching CNN, get vaxxed, believe everything these puppets for the oligarchs tell you. The rest of us who aren’t afraid of it will do just fine. You’re vaxxed what do you have to worry about? LMAO, how weak Americans have become.
tjones60
tjones60
2 years ago
Reply to  mrchinup
Conspiracy Theory of the Year #6:    Covid-19 Vaccines Are Safe and Effective
tbergerson
tbergerson
2 years ago
Reply to  ChrisM
1.6%  LOLOLOL.  No.  Not even the CASE fatality rate is 1.6% (unless you are really old with comorbidities, in which case yes get vaxxed), never mind the INFECTION fatality rate.
Also, how are people supposed to present EVIDeNCE for the freedom from coercion on vaccination argument?  The WHOLE POINT is that the longer term effects of this NOVEL technology are completely unknown.  So there CAN BE no evidence.  Wake up.
prumbly
prumbly
2 years ago
Reply to  ChrisM
In Israel and Singapore, most of those in hospital are fully-vaccinated. Maybe they should be throwing the fully-vaccinated people out on the streets since they are clogging up the hospitals?? [The same is probably true in the US, if they would let us see the REAL data]
Elevatorman
Elevatorman
2 years ago

I think this article is about as accurate as your predictions of self driving cars taking over by last year.   Sometimes I think you live in a fantasy world.  Stick to picture taking.  

LawrenceBird
LawrenceBird
2 years ago
So who is footing the bill for care of the unvaxxed? Everyone’s insurance premiums will go up as will the cost of medicare.   Should all be billed back to the individuals and states that are unvaxxed.
mrchinup
mrchinup
2 years ago
Reply to  LawrenceBird
Come on Bird use a little common sense none of this money we borrow to prop our economy will ever be paid back it’s impossible you aren’t paying attention. I wonder how many trillions will be given to big pharma to save everyone from something as bad as a flu?  How many liberal governors should be charges with murder sending the virus into nursing homes? This country will be a third world country in no time with the brain dead liberals an their oligarchs telling them what to do. That includes most of the republican liberals too.  
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
Reply to  LawrenceBird
The same who is footing the bill for care of the vaxxed. Vaccinated Reverend Jesse Jackson spent a month in the hospital, after contracting Covid. There are also people being hospitalized after being injured by the vaccines. The Big Pharma companies are indemnified against any liability for vaccine injuries. One 12 year old girl in a 12-15 yr old  vax trial, is left with no feeling below the waist, confined to a wheelchair.
By obstructing early outpatient treatment, the public health agencies racked up huge Covid hospital costs. With HCQ, Dr. Zelenko kept all but four of 400 high risk Covid patients out of the hospital. It was for the vaccine agenda, that early outpatient treatment was obstructed by the public health agencies. The unvaxxed are not at fault for that. The public health agencies are.
 
tbergerson
tbergerson
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Exactly right.  There are FDA approved treatments with basically no risk or downside that may work (likely work if you believe the field trials) so LOTS of upside.  The convention is for the FDA to allow doctors at their discretion to use these medicines off label.  Here they have BANNED their use (de facto).  The only reason that makes sense is that they have been PAID to do so by the companies that stand to make HUNDREDS of billions of dollars from the dodgy “vaccines”
shan
shan
2 years ago
Are we at war with COVID? There is an old saying… the first casualty of war is the truth. You and I both know that during war special interests take root and control the narrative. You have to do that in order to get people to go along. Have these vaccines been pushed so far that failure is no longer an option? All risks on big pharma have legally been removed. Is this fair? Are side effects being minimized? I read a great article on the special interests of the medical / Big Pharma industry. I think you should read it (see below). I do know this, an educated patient is the best patient. And therefore every patient has the right to listen to both sides of a narrative in order to make an informed decision on what is best for them. Who stands to benefit by removing one side of the narrative?
mrchinup
mrchinup
2 years ago
Reply to  shan
Of course we aren’t at war with the communist China virus we are letting millions cross the border regardless if they have 10 viruses. But that’s fine with liberals and their corrupt oligarchs.
Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  mrchinup
Something about Mexico paying for a big beautiful wall obviously didn’t pan out. Rather you a few more miles of the same failed border fence Trump attacked in the 2016 election. If only he delivered on his promise not to play golf and had not played on Twitter and actually worked with Republicans rather than these liberals you speak of who he gave the farm to and got zero funding you might have a wall keeping them out.

link to breitbart.com 

mrchinup
mrchinup
2 years ago
Reply to  Bungalow Bill
I have seen well over 400 miles of the border, will be down that way in two weeks. Trumps big steel fence works just fine but the mentally ill liberals just keep the big doors open for all to come in. Educate yourself, go to the border and talk to the border patrol instead of watching CNN. I have no problem with him playing golf or with him on twitter. He did more good things for this country than the last 10 presidents have. You don’t get it, the debt will never be paid back, they can run it up all they want. The only thing I hate about it now is, bailing out criminal organizations like the liberals do. Again, none of this money will be paid back, just too much debt now. Trump had the border as secure as he could by the time he left, the mentally ill liberals fought him every chance they got. How proud you should be letting millions of illegals and criminals in, many who are carrying all kinds of viruses and other funky things.. lol Liberals are all mentally ill.
JeffD
JeffD
2 years ago
Reply to  shan
Same playbook at the “vaccine” link to en.m.wikipedia.org that caused Gulf War Syndrome. They forced everyone to take it and wouldn’t admit to all the side effects, until years later.
WarpartySerf
WarpartySerf
2 years ago
I guess I’ really surprised how much Mish has become such a believer in Big Government and Big Pharma.
Considering thalidomide was tested for years and approved by Big Government/Big Pharma – and then sold to unsuspecting pregnant mothers for five years afterwards-  I’d say the trust that Mish shows is unwarranted.
mrchinup
mrchinup
2 years ago
Reply to  WarpartySerf
In 2003 I believe when I started following him he stayed within his lane, even sent him a couple articles that he posted. I just see him as a real weak minded liberal now, he can say he’s something else but he just promotes liberalism all the time.  
Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  mrchinup
Speaking of weak minded libtards who like to give Dianne Feinstein political orgasms… Cleary have never heard Mish call for federal gun confiscation powers like the libtard in the video.

link to youtube.com 

ChrisM
ChrisM
2 years ago
Reply to  WarpartySerf
The fail on thalidomide was that in the 1950s and 1960s, it was widely tested on animals in the UK, not humans. It was never approved in the US. And it is still used today as an effective treatment against aids and bone cancer. The rDNA vaccines have been widely tested on humans with very low serious side effects. So it is an apple to oranges comparison.
Corvinus
Corvinus
2 years ago
Reply to  ChrisM
I don’t want to speak for WarpartySerf but my understanding of his point here is not that there is a direct comparison to Thalidomide. Rather it is that there have been and continue to be reasons to not trust Big Pharma/Big Government and the word of the science establishment in general – not least of which is a complete lack of ability to predict or understand long term side effects. 
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Corvinus
This was an excellent related post on another forum a couple of months back:. I don’t have the direct link, so am publishing most of the post.  You can search the link below if you want to see how he ended this post.
———
Chris Weber says:
August 3, 2021 at 9:19 PM
Bayer gave us Baycol, supposed to lower cholesterol. Ended up being recalled 3 years later, one of the side effects? Death.
Remember Bextra? Supposed to give you pain relief. It did. Of course one of the side effects was dying, but that does relieve your pain. Pulled after 4 years after the same doctors, medical centers and institutions telling us the vaccine is safe, fed us Bextra, telling us it was safe.
Propulsid was supposed to relieve heartburn. They told us it was safe. The govt told us it was safe. And it did relieve your heartburn. It also relieved you of your heartbeat. It was pulled after these same govt agencies told us it was safe and these same medical institutions and personnel fed it to us for seven years for causing serious cardiac arrhythmias.
Accutane, known as Isotretinoin was on the market for 27 YEARS to treat acne. In 2009 it was recalled for increased risk of birth defects, miscarriages, inflammatory bowel disease and giving the taker suicidal tendencies. So if the acne didn’t get you to kill yourself don’t worry kid, the treatment will.
Over 7,000 lawsuits were filed, some with judgments in the millions against just over the side effects alone on this product that these same “experts” sold to high school kids.
Anyone remember Raptiva?
It was supposed to relieve skin itching, you know psoriasis. The commercials for this filled the airwaves back in 2003, selling it to anyone with a dry patch on their skin. Those commercials ended around 2009 when it was pulled because one of the ways it relieved you of dry skin was relieving you of your skin altogether. It caused a “fatal” disease known as PML, progressive multifocal leukoencephalopathy, basically causing your brain to swell up and eat itself. But hey, no more itchy skin ay?
And I know most of the older folks will remember Vioxx.
Merck had Dorothy Hamill and Bruce Jenner selling it to us during the Olympics. It was for pain relief. The same govt and medical agencies and institutions told us it was safe. Sold it to us with the flag waving behind it and Dorothy Hamill standing there with her Olympic gold medals. Then people started to drop dead from it. Around 30 thousand heart attacks later they finally pulled it in 2003. Then Bruce Jenner became a woman. ….not sure the connection there just thinking outload here.
If you had irritable bowel you could take “Zelnorm”. It relieved it, especially for those who died from it. They pulled it after 4 years for increased risk of heart attack and death.
Most people should know Meridia. It was just pulled in 2010 as the FDA after approving it testified to the Senate that it was so dangerous it was what they called “another Vioxx”.
These are just a few, so when I say “Zantac”, I’m just using it as one minor example of the endless list of crap, …these same companies, manufacturers, doctors, govt agencies and medical institutions have been selling us on as “safe” and these WERE tested and went through the usual multi-year trial periods, studies, etc.
And they got soooooo many wrong. These are just a small sampling.
These pale next to the larger more stunning judgments and awards over the last few decades from these same companies now making and pushing the vaccines.
Most of these larger judgments for, yup you guessed it. Misrepresentation on safety.
In 2012 GlaxoSmithKline got hit for 3 billion for numerous violations mostly tied to misrepresentation, including making false and misleading statements about Avandia’s safety.
In 2009 Pfizer got slammed with an actual Criminal fine of 2.3 billion dollars for pushing Bextra as safe.
Johnson & Johnson received Criminal fines and forfeiture for misrepresentation to the tune of $485 million, along with 1.72 billion dollars in civil settlements.
Then there’s Abbott, $1.5 billion in 2012, Eli Lilly $1.42 billion in 2009, Merck $950 million in 2011 Amgen paid $762 million in 2012, AstraZeneca, $520 million in 2010, Actelion $360 million in 2018, Purdue Pharma $270 million in 2019 and on and on. These are the same companies, manufacturers, agencies and institutions involved who I am being told now to shut up and trust.
These same people, who’s track records lets just say leave some room for doubt, …, these same people I am supposed to now blindly trust because you, whoever you may be cowering from behind that little mask on your face, you say are the “experts” and “know what they’re doing”.
….
tjones60
tjones60
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Big Pharma has Killed more people than it has saved !
Corvinus
Corvinus
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Thanks for this – I was actually looking for a nice reference on other deadly blunders from Big Pharma
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
2 years ago
Heh, traffic slow lately?
Want to drive traffic (and comments) —-> covid post.
mrchinup
mrchinup
2 years ago
Just for you Mish, most of the liberal globalist pharma and oligarch lovers won’t understand it anyway.  link to zerohedge.com
KidHorn
KidHorn
2 years ago
I don’t doubt vaccinated people fair better than unvaccinated, but that isn’t that important. What matters is the overall death and hospitalization rate among the unvaccinated. I would imagine vegetarians have a lower rate of hospitalization than people who eat at McDonalds. So, do we mandate that no one can eat at McDonalds? Of course not. There’s no epidemic of sick McDonalds eaters. And, contrary to what the white house wishes, there’s no epidemic of unvaccinated covid patients.
prumbly
prumbly
2 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
“What matters is the overall death and hospitalization rate among the unvaccinated”
And what is that exactly?  The CDC isn’t collecting the vaccination status data, other than a voluntary reporting system that is almost certainly HUGELY under-reporting breakthrough hospitalizations and deaths.
In Israel most of the hospitalizations and deaths are vaccinated – why shouldn’t that be the case in the US, if they would only collect the data? Same virus, same vaccine.
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
“Kwanghoon Seok
@khoonseook
After a crafted “horse dewormer” smear campaigns on a 35yr old safe, effective, off-label drug, i.e. Ivermectin, media brazenly started to praise unproven pills for which Pfizer & Merck are pushing EUA following that of experimental vaccines”
There are over 60 positive studies on Ivermectin, as well as positive real world results where IVM has been used to fight Covid-19.
The FDA is corrupt. Remdesivir was given an EUA based on just ONE study, while there can never be enough studies for IVM. It is a rigged game. The FDA has flushed science down the toilet for the benefit of the Big Pharma companies. The MSM has flushed Journalism down the toilet as well. A substantial part of their advertising depends on Big Pharma. A lot of people have died of Covid-19, because of the corruption in public health agencies and news media.
It truly is a crime against humanity.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Your fantasy about Peru turned out to be vaccines not ivermectin:
Nor does the FLCCC seem interested in a much more telling piece of data. In May 2021, average daily deaths from COVID plummeted in Peru without the reintroduction of ivermectin. link to as-coa.org, and as the summer went on the government announced major donations of millions of vaccines. Though Peru still lags behind in terms of vaccinated population, millions have received inoculations now. As such, the daily deaths in the country are now as low as they’ve been since the pandemic began. The evidence that vaccines are responsible for Peru’s current low rate of death from COVID is far more impressive than any for ivermectin, and yet that never seems to come up.
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
Merck’s new pill is a protease inhibitor, which is what Ivermectin is. In vitro, Ivermectin kills the Covid19 virus in 24 hours.
There are many positive ivermectin trials/studies. Too many to be ignored. Doctors have noticed changes in outcomes after they began using Ivermectin, as opposed to results before using Ivermectin.
 
tbergerson
tbergerson
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Many such studies.  Most importantly India
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
Casual… any paper that starts like “The news regarding ivermectin over the last couple of weeks has been mostly about how Americans are taking deworming medication meant for livestock” is a paper meant for your behind, not for your face.
Nobel prize was given for ivermectin for effect on HUMANS. Anyone that keep writing and reading this non-sense it just livestock.
Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill
2 years ago
“But anyone who disagrees with Trump or the anti-vaxxers immediately becomes a target of the conspiracy believers and the vaccine sceptics.”
MAGA cultists clearly weren’t paying attention to Donald Trump. Trump said he would use the military to deliver vaccines. He also signed executive order 13887 which clearly gives the Pentagon great power over the future of vaccines. Why would Trump want the military to have such authority over our healthcare decisions? It clearly isn’t the job of the military to be involved in such things.

link to federalregister.gov 

Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  Bungalow Bill
Remember Trump said the military was going to be used… link to zerohedge.com 
mrchinup
mrchinup
2 years ago
Reply to  Bungalow Bill
He also said he wouldn’t force anyone to get the jab unlike Biden and the corrupt liberal oligarchs. But you left a big part of the truth out of your post? Why?
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  mrchinup
No one’s forcing you to do anything jackass. It doesn’t mean you get to keep your job. 
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
Obviously, people are being forced to get the shot, to keep their job. It is called a mandate. It isn’t voluntary.
One nurse working at a native American clinic was coerced into getting the shot, in order to keep her job. She died shortly after being vaccinated.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Nope not forced. There is no mandate to work. In fact most states are at will employment.  Go ahead and post a link to the story about the nurse. 
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
Yes, forced. There is a mandate in order for them to keep their job. The story about the nurse was in a whistleblower video. It is available on the internet.
mrchinup
mrchinup
2 years ago
So you work for someone for twenty years waiting for your pension date and you’re fired. Lol, not one doubt you are a liberal. Getting vaxxed doesn’t stop the spread it’s proven over and over now. If you’re weak like you get the vax and stop whining. 
tbergerson
tbergerson
2 years ago
A distinction without  a difference.  If the choice is between killing yourself with unproven medical technology or losing your livelihood, giving up your liberty.  Really one of the stupidest arguments ever made.  But to be expected coming from this source.
Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  mrchinup

He said a bunch of stuff like he was fighting for our gun rights only then to push federal red flag gun confiscation, the bump stock ban, FIX NICS, etc.The fact you thing Trump’s word means something to me is simply laughable. He lied about protecing my gun rights. Now you are telling me he has an ethos that generates trust with you. Fascinating!

mrchinup
mrchinup
2 years ago
Reply to  Bungalow Bill
I don’t care about bump stock, Trump has supported gun rights from day one. I have many guns not one of them did he ask to be banned. But you’d rather trust lying mentally ill liberals who will 100% take your guns away if they could? Stop the hating and wake up. I have no problem taking guns away from mentally ill people like liberals.
Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  mrchinup
Truth is not something I trust Trump with. After all he promised to protect our gun rights and then started pushing more restrictions on our gun rights from federal red flag gun laws to the bump stock ban to FIX NICS.
Corrupt liberal oligarchs get their Obama pens out and force mandates on people. In the case of Trump’s bump stock ban, you either turn your bump stock back into your federal master or you face life as a federal felon…
So please don’t try to convince me Trump has a trustworthy ethos.

link to gunowners.org 

Corvinus
Corvinus
2 years ago
Reply to  Bungalow Bill
I don’t disagree with you on Trump’s contradictory position the gun rights issues, but sadly we have been here before with Republicans going against their constituencies on this topic. Reagan himself penned a letter of support for the 1994 “assault weapons” ban. The best you can say about it is that Democrats are guaranteed to mess with our gun rights while with Republicans there is at least a chance that they won’t or that they are more sensitive to being dissuaded from doing so. It’s not a great statement on our rights overall.
Corvinus
Corvinus
2 years ago
Reply to  Bungalow Bill
As someone who voted for Trump twice and who knows others who did the same, I have yet to find anyone who is so dedicated to this “MAGA cult” that so many of you seem to love talking about that they blindly go along with everything Trump says. At worst maybe people are unaware of things he’s said in support of things like forced vaccinations and gun confiscation. When they are informed of these things they wholeheartedly disagree with them. Maybe my experience is unique, but I don’t think so.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
For those not deliberately getting the vaccine due to sheer insanity, they shouldn’t be sent to a hospital when they get Covid. They should get sent to a mental institution for Covid patients because it was the insanity that got them sick. 
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
You are funny.
Fauci and company denied people access to early outpatient treatment that would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives in the U.S. You ignore that insanity.
Here’s the thing, Cas, i have a number of over the counter therapies in my possession, to be able to fight Covid-19 with. I can likely keep myself out of the hospital. The public health agencies never promoted any of these OTC items, in order to protect anyone’s life.
Your anger should actually be directed at them, not me. They endangered your life for the benefit of the Big Pharma companies and their vaccine only agenda.
LawrenceBird
LawrenceBird
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Just wanted to make sure I said good bye Ron before it was too late!
mrchinup
mrchinup
2 years ago
Reply to  LawrenceBird
LMAO, let’s see how jabs Bird gets before he turns into a mutant.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Over the counters are made by..ding ding ding.. BIG PHARMA !
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
Hydrogen peroxide is Big Pharma? Vitamin D is Big Pharma? Zinc is Big Pharma?
Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
And Fauci still has a job even after the promise of “draining the swamp.” 

Funny how that worked out.

mrchinup
mrchinup
2 years ago
Weak, weak pathetic liberals, so sad what America has become. There is no room in mental institutions for good tough Americans they are filled up to the top with mentally ill liberals.
Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  mrchinup
If I recall, Thomas Massie was the one lone conservative in the House who fought the massive COVID socialist spending bill Trump demanded passed. Trump demanded Massie be kicked out of the GOP for–you know–being conservative. Pathetic liberals love to attack fiscal conservatives like Massie. 

What did you spend your Trump redistribution of wealth stimulus check on?

tbergerson
tbergerson
2 years ago
Back at you CO2020.  Libtards should also be sent to a mental hospital.  Especially the evil ones who support FORCED vaccinations of people AGAINST THEIR WILL
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
A few random thoughts:
1. It’s odd that Peru has such a high fatality rate for Covid, considering that they were an early promoter of Ivermectin use, and that self-medicating with Ivermectin has been very, very common there. If Ivermectin worked as well as some think, you’d expect to see the opposite.
2. As I understand, the FDA officials resigned, not because of the boosters, but because procedure wasn’t followed. The booster plan was announced prior to the FDA granting approval. What should have happened is that the FDA should have pushed to fast-track the review decision, but allowed to review and approve the use of booster, and then the plan to administer them should have been implemented.
3. There are always going to be people on both sides of an issue. What is curious about the internet is that it seems that if you have 10,000,000 doctors on one side of an issue and 2 on the other, the power of propaganda on the internet is such that the 2 become the true authorities in the minds of many, while the 10,000,000 become merely insignificant mainstream opinions.
4. I still believe that Covid is now winding down. Delta was so infectious that most everyone has now been exposed, and we are running out of people who are unvaccinated who haven’t had it yet. I think that most of those who were vaccinated also have been exposed, and their bodies have, in response, added additional types of antibodies, giving them more protection against Delta than they realize. I don’t think there will be another wave, at least in the US.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
#3 is akin to terrorist that only has to be right once to proclaim the other side lost. Every time an unvaccinated person lies on their deathbed asking for a vaccine, the story should be told by all media outlets. There are literally thousands of these cases now. 
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
Cas, there are  people who have been seriously injured by the vaccines now saying that they regret having gotten vaccinated.
Early outpatient treatment, with off label drugs, would have kept most people off their death bed. That is a simple fact. Even over the counter remedies would have likely kept people off their death bed, had they been made aware of them by the public health agencies.
tbergerson
tbergerson
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Authoritarian people like CO 2020 are immune to reason.  The fact that our medical establishment has utterly failed and is in fact now a source of great evil is of no concern.  ANY OTHER vaccine with the level of harm indicated by these vaccines would already have been pulled.   Changing medical convention to DISALLOW safe treatments on outpatient basis (none of the FDA, CDC or NIH have ANY outpatient protocol 19 months after the start of the pandemic!!!!!!!!!) can only make one wonder just what the hell is going on.  Of course the answer is obvious.  And so CO2020 is most likely a paid troll
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
“It’s odd that Peru has such a high fatality rate for Covid, considering
that they were an early promoter of Ivermectin use, and that
self-medicating with Ivermectin has been very, very common there. If
Ivermectin worked as well as some think, you’d expect to see the
opposite.”
Robert W Malone, MD
@RWMaloneMD
“For those that don’t know, Peru did a massive campaign with ivermectin in last half of 2020. The mortality dropped 14 fold over 3 months. A new president came in – and stopped the campaign. And deaths rose 13 fold over the next month.”
There is your answer, Carl. When Peru stopped using IVM, the death rate rose. The same happened in Indonesia, when the health ministry blocked IVM from being used. Deaths rose 5 fold after IVM was blocked.
Ivermectin works.
 
mrchinup
mrchinup
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Liberals don’t want to hear the truth they are too brainwashed to believe anything called the truth.
Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  mrchinup
Sounds like the MAGA cultists who still haven’t figured out Trump is a libtard.

link to youtube.com 

KidHorn
KidHorn
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Biden probably threatened to cancel foreign aid unless they stopped giving ivermectin.
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Ron, I am aware of the government’s change of position in Peru. Yet, both before and after the government’s change in position on Ivermectin, a tremendous number of people in Peru have taken Ivermectin. Therefore, if Ivermectin was as effective as some claim, the times when it was used should have resulted in some lives saved. So, does Peru show even a small reduction in death rate from surrounding countries where Ivermectin was not used? Hardly. Peru has a death rate of 5,943 per million, nearly double the rate of any other country in the world, and more than double any other country in South America.
Early in the pandemic, I had high hopes that a country like Peru that was widely using Ivermectin would prove the world wrong by showing a lower death rate than the rest of the world. That did not happen. Now, a year later, it is clear that something has gone terribly, terribly wrong in Peru.  Does Ivermectin use somehow weaken the immune system such that when later exposed to Covid again, a person is more apt to die? The Peru data does not support a conclusion that fatalities were reduced, and may support a conclusion that they were increased. I just don’t understand how their fatality rate can be double of any other place, and the only difference I am aware of is that they used a lot of Ivermectin early in the Pandemic. Perhaps you have some other explanation?
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
Carl_R, this may be the answer you are looking for:
Peru has more than doubled its Covid death toll following a review, making it the country with the world’s highest death rate per capita,according to Johns Hopkins University data.

The official death toll is now more than 180,000, up from 69,342, in a country of about 33 million people.

Prime Minister Violeta Bermudez said the number was increased on the advice of Peruvian and international experts.”

I wonder if that advice was given to all the other countries, too….
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  CristiC
Basically it just clarifies the risk of comparing numbers from one country to numbers from another. Some countries can’t count well. Some fudge the numbers. Once the pandemic is over, the “counts” that we are all used to from every country will be thrown away, and replaced by more accurate numbers computed from excess deaths, and we’ll have a more accurate picture of how the various countries compared.  In the meantime, do comparisons with caution, I guess.  As for Peru, are the numbers after adjustment more accurate than the ones before adjustment? Who knows.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Is there a website of Ivermectin testimonials?  That might help.
mrchinup
mrchinup
2 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
But it isn’t 10 million to 2, so stop lying. Why can’t liberals stop lying? So if you believe it’s all over then you and your friends should stop whining about it. I don’t believe it’s over but I still don’t whine. I believe the vaxxed will keep on spreading new versions of it, but I’m still not whining like a weak liberal. Most of the unvaxxed who have had it are many times safer than vaxxed super spreaders. lol……..   There will be others because your liberal oligarchs have already created them in the labs. But keep on letting them off the hook, keep on bowing to them and sooner or later you will get what you deserve.
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  mrchinup
Who are you calling a liberal? Would you know one if you saw one, or do you like to just throw that out any time you disagree with someone? I know that I am in the right place when Liberals call me right-wing, and right-wingers call me Liberal. The example of 10 million to 2 was hyperbole, and was intended to apply to all issues in the world, not specifically this one. If fact, #3 doesn’t use the word “Covid” at all, but rather refers to “an issue”, which could be any issue. It was a post of random comments, and that one was about the sad state of the world today, where disinformation is valued as highly as information.
As for my prediction that there will be no more waves, and that Covid is over, I made it a month ago. I may be right or not.
mrchinup
mrchinup
2 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
Carl, you lied it’s not 10 million to 2. I know doctors that will not take the vax and surely won’t let their kids get it. If you are weak and want the jab go get it, stop whining about others who don’t trust the oligarchs or liberal globalists. You will be wrong about the waves they are not done making new ones. They want people like you scared, it worked. Disinformation is coming from the corrupt liberal media and the oligarchs who pay them to lie.
mrchinup
mrchinup
2 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
Ron explained to you what happened in Peru but you choose not to listen for what ever reason. Stop watching CNN and the rest of the corrupt liberal media you might actually find the truth, it’s out there.
Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill
2 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
That’s the only argument he’s got. He hasn’t figured out Trump is a liberal who approved of $8 trillion more in big government debt, pushed gun control, and redistributed wealth. I bet he watches a lot of OAN… LOL
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  Bungalow Bill
Given that he posted a link to zerohedge as a “source”, I think that where he stands is clear. When someone calls me a “liberal” or a “right-winger”, I consider it to be an admission against interest; basically they are saying that they have no reply to the merit of the argument, and it shows that any further discussion would be wasted.
Dutoit
Dutoit
2 years ago
I am afraid that, as in some other subjects, once you have preconceived ideas, you can find as many “specialists”, data, statistics as you want, to support them.
Raj Kumar
Raj Kumar
2 years ago
I agree with you Mish. People who undertake risky behaviour must pay for that behaviour 
tjones60
tjones60
2 years ago
Reply to  Raj Kumar
Getting a Covid Vaccine is a risky behavior  for a 99.7% survival rate disease !!  Who’s paying for vaccine injuries??  Not Big Pharma , Not Government !!!!  No Liability!!!
Obese people eating Fast Foods is risky behavior
People having promiscuous sex is risky behavior
People doing illegal drugs is risky behavior
You all better look in the mirror !!  Your risky behavior may be banned someday by the Health Authorities !!
mrchinup
mrchinup
2 years ago
Reply to  tjones60
Let em keep on getting the Jab less morons we’ll have to deal with down the line. They think the oligarchs actually care about them, they actually told us that a virus was coming in 2017 but nobody was paying attention. Yes they created this but liberals just give them a pass. 
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
There is nothing new to say about covid now. It has been hashed out so much that everyone has formed their opinions and will not move from them no matter what because it is a part of their personality. The only thing to do now is to get through it using the means at hand whether they be vaccines, treatments or behaviors. Anything anyone says here will not change one ioda of what will happen. What could be interesting but I don’t see anyone talking about it is ay what stage of the pandemic are we? All epidemics run their course and covid will end also. We are probably in the eight inning or fourth quarter if you prefer in the developed countries. These charts from the CDC give a nice overview of who is actually dying of covid and who is not. 
Christoball
Christoball
2 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
4th quarter, humanity 48, Covid 7 Top of the 9th humanity 10, Covid 2
Doug78
Doug78
2 years ago
Reply to  Christoball
Another few short months and it should have run its course.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
I disagree.  People are coming around.  This is why there are more protests.  Others are wondering why nurses, doctors and other educated people who have plenty of access to the latest science are resisting accepting the SP shots.  This is making them question the narrative.  You have to keep trying.  
tjones60
tjones60
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
The Front line Nurses and Doctors , Police and EMTs are all too aware of the VACCINE Injuries taking place. They See it and want no part of the Experiment !!!
amigator
amigator
2 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Good Stuff thanks.
Still looking for chart for 75 and under no underlying conditions death rate….
and deaths from COVID if you all ready had COVID once and unvaxed?
Can’t seem to locate but I know its got to be there somewhere……
Jackula
Jackula
2 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Like your post. Its hard to calculate were we are at in the pandemic. With an IFR of .65% and 1.1 million deaths in the US(my estimate) would put us at 51% have been infected so far. Its gonna be an ugly winter if a Covid variant with Delta’s R0 fully escapes the vaccines.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Jackula
0.65%?  That is way too high!  With around 700k official covid deaths over the past 19 months in the USA, the IFR is under 0.2%.  
Now, if you want to break it up by years, the numbers would be even lower.  The CDC claims 375k Covid deaths in 2020.  That’s an IFR of around 0.13%.
Christoball
Christoball
2 years ago
Like economics, public health is a soft science.
Christoball
Christoball
2 years ago
The battle cry is trust the science; but in reality it is trust the scientist. The worst thing that could befall America is Herd Mentality.
tjones60
tjones60
2 years ago
Reply to  Christoball
Herd Mentally gave us Witch Trials , Nazi Germany and Imperialist Japan and the killing fields in South East Asia.
Herd Mentally kills more people than any viral illness !!
Are we really going to divide society and show “papers” over a 99.7 % survivable disease????  Is that the world you want ???!!!!!
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  tjones60
People might also ponder the more dangerous reality that active segregation based on vaccine status is a policy of social segregation, little different from the formal racial segregation the USA supported up through the 1960’s. However, instead of skin color, it is a personal medical choice that is being used to implement segregation.
As a society, are we ready to reinstate real segregation? Will internment camps for the unvaxxed be next?
Jackula
Jackula
2 years ago
Again US data is trash. Quoting data that doesn’t mention whether or not the vaxxed individual has had Covid is worthless and doesn’t measure vaccine leakiness accurately. Covid gives about 10 times the protection that the vaxxes give per Israeli data. Naturally in the US rural unvaccinated conservative voters were unlikely to have run into Covid yet until Delta. Here in Los Angeles we were barely touched by Delta as we have had 4 waves of Covid pass thru with probably 60-65% having had Covid already and have around a 60% vaxx rate. Generally the younger folks that get hammered by Covid are obese or immune compromised and may have also had a high initial inocolum. It’s been frustrating looking at a plethora of US studies that have conclusions based on inadequate data. I generally look at UK and Israeli data and analysis as its more granular.
Intelligentyetidiot
Intelligentyetidiot
2 years ago
The only known way to end a pandemic is through herd immunity. 
Otherwise you will be mitigating it until a more severe mutation appears.
Vaccines dont stop transmission and cant end the pandemic.
You should listen to the interview and read the work of the belgian scientist Geert Vanden Bossch instead of ignoring him.
All insights throughout history have come from individual independent minds, not group think government bureaucrats.
Geert is a true scientist and isn’t in for the fame or the money, like dr Malone might be.
He has been right from the beginning and his predictions have come true, check his twitter feed. 
There is no scientist that has debunked his analysis. 
Here is his last analysis.
Scooot
Scooot
2 years ago
An interesting post of his here too.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
REAL vaccines DO stop transmission.  SP shots are LEAKY vaccines and don’t stop transmission.  See my post above about leaky vaccines and chickens. 
anoop
anoop
2 years ago
this is a very difficult subject to discuss because what we call science today is continuously evolving.
here’s one guy who regrets taking it.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
2 years ago
Reply to  anoop
He would probably be dead if he got Covid. The truth is whatever the vaccine does you, getting Covid will be 10x worse. This is how vaccines work.
Christoball
Christoball
2 years ago
      Covid is largely a Boomer disease and a disease of poverty.  Boomers now account for 56% of daily deaths from all causes while comprising only 21% 0f the population. 80 percent of COVID deaths are among boomers. So basically people are dying from glutony and depravity. It is such a big deal now because it has affected the comfortable class. War and Pandemics have a way of leveling the playing field and are somewhat democratic and even handed. A generation that knew no lack and was promised that science would solve all problems has met a monkeywrench. Starvation which kills 24,000 people a day is ignored, and would be much simpler to solve than all the abracadabra that Materia Medica can provide. Starvation is a slow death that has people feeling pretty bad for months up until the time of death. It is usually a straw that breaks the camels back such as the flue or covid that finishes off the process.                                                                                                                                A major health care insurer who aught to know states “According to the CDC link to cdc.gov, 80 percent of COVID deaths are among boomers. And while age is a factor, so are underlying health conditions. link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov 60% of boomers have already been diagnosed with at least one chronic health condition (cardiovascular disease, link to wellmark.com, chronic respiratory disease and cancer).  This makes them even link to cdc.gov more at risk for a severe illness.
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  Christoball
Keep in mind that, while the vast majority of deaths are in older people, the percentage increase in the death rate is highest among those 20-35. Yes, not many of those people are dying of Covid, but in most year, almost none of them die for health reasons.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
So tell us more about these early deaths.  What was their BMI?  Did they exercise regularly?  Take vitamins & supplements?  Did they do drugs of any kind?  Have comorbidities such as diabetes?  What are the actual numbers that we are talking about?
mrchinup
mrchinup
2 years ago
Don’t worry about us unvaxxed you are safe with the poison why are we still talking about this?   If you take care of yourself most likely you will live what’s the big deal? Everyone dies sooner or later. Keep on getting those shots baby big pharma can be trusted. lol
Starcow
Starcow
2 years ago
They are images all over the internet
tjones60
tjones60
2 years ago
Reply to  Starcow
Looks like any other coronavirus !!
QTPie
QTPie
2 years ago
Important points regarding Israel…
  • Yes, Israel has a “high” vaccination rate – but not that high. I just checked the official numbers and only 60% of the entire population is fully vaccinated at this point.
  • Israel used Pfizer shots almost exclusively.
  • Like in other industrialized nations, the vast majority of hospitalized COVID patients in Israel are unvaccinated.
  • Although Israel may have a high infection rate, actual number of COVID-related deaths has been relatively low thanks to a high-quality healthcare system.
Mish
Mish
2 years ago
Reply to  QTPie
Israel just changed the definition of fully vaccinated to include the booster
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Mish
Fauci did also recently where he has been saying that the SP (spike protein) shots should be considered a 3-shot series.  That was picked up by others and I heard it from a couple of other media whore MD’s on the teevee.
QTPie
QTPie
2 years ago
Reply to  Mish
Israel reports their various statistics broken down by all the different stages of vaccination. The figure I quoted includes everyone who has had at least two shots.
The Israeli Ministry of Health publishes a detailed daily “dashboard” that breaks all of this down. It can be found here: link to datadashboard.health.gov.il
Also, the hospitalization figure I referenced relates to those with two or more shots.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  QTPie
Videos: Israelis Rise Up Against Vaccine Passports After Being Told MORE Shots Needed To Be Considered ‘Fully Vaccinated’
It is now expected to be announced that at least FOUR vaccinations will be needed to be considered ‘fully vaccinated’
27 September, 2021
derecho
derecho
2 years ago
As a retired physician, I thank you for this. Unfortunately, some people no longer respond to this issue in a rational fashion. There is a large overlap between those who deny the fact that Biden was elected President in a free and fair election and those who deny that Covid-19 is a serious illness that can be greatly ameliorated by a very safe and highly effective (and free) vaccine.  They cannot be reasoned with. But, again, I thank you for trying. 
Oxidado Blanco
Oxidado Blanco
2 years ago
Reply to  derecho
Hey Doc…with all due respect, can YOU show me a microscopic slide with the COVID pathogen on it?…Have YOU seen one?..Thanks
JeffD
JeffD
2 years ago
Reply to  derecho
What’s yor stance on people who have had Covid and recovered?
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  derecho
You’re out to pasture for a reason doc.  Your brain is addled.
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
“Florida (the nation in general) is running out of $2,100 monoclonal
antibody treatments because too many stubborn people are getting sick
because they refused a $20 shot that is guaranteed to save lives.”
The public health agencies refuse to stop obstructing the use of a $20 pill that saved lives in Uttar Pradesh, without the risks taken by those who have gotten vaccinated.
I do not consider the vaccines to be safe and effective. I have seen interviews with two whistleblower nurses, talking about how VAERS is way under reported. One even took it upon herself to write reports for other doctors, who were not reporting, but she was told by superiors to stop. She also said she was more afraid of taking the vaccine than she was of Covid itself, after the  vaccine injuries she has seen.
honestcreditguy
honestcreditguy
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
pulmoheal and ivermectin are India’s death rate saving grace….but it’s to cheap to have here for US citizen folks….
Oxidado Blanco
Oxidado Blanco
2 years ago
Mish, long time follower…
You can answer this and pass it on..Lets take this all the way back to the beginning and just use facts. We were told that “something” escaped from a WuHan lab at some point. Lets figure it out.. If there is no proof that “something” escaped, then it can’t be proven or DISproven…..The Covid narrative is such a farce it is laughable. 
I will make a substantial bet with anyone if you can show me, on a microscopic slide”, ONE COVID pathogen, spore, molecule, etc. There isn’t one. The cartoon computer generated artist rendition of the “Covid Spore” they show over and over has NOTHING to do with a virus. It is just as I stated. An artists rendition. Wave a slide around in the 
air at the supermarket, hospital, airport, etc and SHOW me the actual pathogen we are fighting against..It can’t be done because there isn’t one.
It makes everything about COVID null and void..And you HAVE to have at least ONE specimen to make a so called vaccine from…There isn’t one..
Tell Faucci and TheWHO to show it on main stream media….There isn’t one.  Its all about $$$……
Just the facts…
Rusty
Starcow
Starcow
2 years ago
Reply to  Oxidado Blanco
Oxidado Blanco
Oxidado Blanco
2 years ago
Reply to  Starcow
So you think that picture is what escaped from the Wuhan lab huh?…Nice try..You really think a mask is gonna stop that?…Maybe the mask will stop this one…
But then again, we are not talking the same COVID pathogen now are we. Is this the 2012 series of pathogen, the Zika pathogen, the HIV pathogen the MERS pathogen? 
You would think that I could just go into Kroger and swish my hand thru the air and have BILLIONS of those “spores” in my hand so I could put them on a microscopic slide wouldn’t ya?…No, you need a electron microscope to even see “IT”…Yeah right….So the ENTIRE planet has those coronavirus spores floating around everywhere yet you can’t show me what they made the vaccine from?
Pictures of coronavirus are a dime a dozen…I have 32 coronaviruses in my body…My dog has 5…And the vet wants to give her a new vax every year…Couldn’t have anything to do with money because they don’t give them away for free.
If the gubment was REALLY concerned about our healt, they would have outlawed cigarettes and MSG long ago.
Wake up..You have been hoodwinked once again.
Oxidado Blanco
Oxidado Blanco
2 years ago
Reply to  Starcow
just out of curiosity Starcow, did you even READ the article you posted the pics from?…Pretty much disproves itself…But here are some more pretty pics to look at and say, “OOOh Look, its COVID”….
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Oxidado Blanco
Go back to lurking.  You’re off your rocker.  You probably believe the Earth is flat and the Moon landing was faked, yes?
honestcreditguy
honestcreditguy
2 years ago
the issue is no flu shot equals vaccine as any animal reservoir virus is impossible to exterminate…..or eliminate….
thus the shot is a flu shot….a vaccine was successful in small pox as it had no animal reservoir
no SAR related virus can be eliminated, unless you wipe out the earth of animals….
Dean_70
Dean_70
2 years ago
Where is the LONG TERM data? 
…. crickets
Reckless science != good science
Dean_70
Dean_70
2 years ago
Reply to  Dean_70
Stop with the propaganda that may or may not pose harmful long-term effects.
Thalamus
Thalamus
2 years ago
Injecting an mRNA shot into your deltoid that instructs your cells to create a spike protein throughout your endothelial lining, is asking for future trouble.  The next time your body detects a similar pathogen, it will start attacking these foreign proteins attached to your blood vessel walls, creating massive inflammation and possibly death.  At least that’s what happened in multiple animal studies and why this technology has never been used in humans up to this point.  
goldguy
goldguy
2 years ago
Smoking,  and being grossly overweight should all be grounds for healthcare dismissal.  If someone cannot even do that for there personal healthcare, they should not even have healthcare at any cost.  
Sound familiar?  That is the same BS thinking going on now in this country. 
Do it MY WAY or Else!
Sounds like a bunch of cry baby americans, who need there binkys stuck back in there mouths.
It’s disgusting living in what once was a great country, with wonderful people.  Get the jab or lose your job!  We don’t care about you, no matter what, get the jab.
honestcreditguy
honestcreditguy
2 years ago
Reply to  goldguy
its an obesity pandemic
goldguy
goldguy
2 years ago
Yes it is and we must STOP it at ALL COST!
We must measure every Americans BMI and if not in compliance with our government standards, you will be punished.
I suspect at least 50% would be without healthcare…..medicare cost pressures solved.
The same with the homeless population.  Get the jab or be exterminated.  Just like Hitler.  Or maybe Biden?
honestcreditguy
honestcreditguy
2 years ago
Reply to  goldguy
the obesity pandemic was going to bankrupt medicare anyways, they now have to start checking for diabetes as a kid now……corn syrup blues….
Hypertension is biggest component of non old age deaths with the VID….obesity
JeffD
JeffD
2 years ago
Reply to  goldguy
Why measure BMI? Why not just force the same meal plan on everyone without attention to individual health circumstance? Astronaut paste for everyone, man, woman, or child!
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  JeffD
BMI isn’t a good measure if you happen to be in shape and have some muscle.  The muscle will give higher BMI readings.
NotaSheep
NotaSheep
2 years ago
No. F*** no. 
The FauciFlu has  99.8% survival rate. And that is with a vastly pumped death toll because doctors were paid to code death certificates. 
I stopped wearing a mask in May of 2020 and Hell will freeze solid before I get vaxxed. 
This “pandemic” was a put up from day one. Stop drinking the Kool Ade Mish. 
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  NotaSheep
That’s an odd claim, considering that about 0.3% of Americans have died of Covid. I presume that means you think that, on average, each American has had Covid 1.5 times? Note that the counts are merely an unofficial tally. The final death death toll will be computed by excess deaths, which I estimate will result in increasing the death toll by about 20%. That’s a very small adjustment, though. Normally for the flu they increase the deaths by 5-700%.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
Covid death counts are inexact and are going to be recalculated.  As I have posted previously in prior threads, two counties in my area of CA (Alameda & Santa Clara) both recalculated Covid deaths and reduced them by about 25% each.  I’m sure this has happened in other counties in the USA but of course, the MSM doesn’t showcase any reductions in Covid deaths.  You can go search on those names if you want.
And I have a new article for you, for Britain.  Seems to me from this article that a good number of these deaths are similar to what is being reported as post-vaccine side effects that we are seeing in VAERS/EURDS dB’s:
———–
Thousands more people than usual are dying … but it’s not from Covid
Sarah Knapton
Fri, September 24, 2021
While focus remains firmly fixed on Covid-19, a second health crisis is quietly emerging in Britain. Since the beginning of July, there have been thousands of excess deaths that were not caused by coronavirus.
According to health experts, this is highly unusual for the summer. Although excess deaths are expected during the winter months, when cold weather and seasonal infections combine to place pressure on the NHS, summer generally sees a lull.
This year is a worrying outlier.
According to the Office for National Statistics (ONS), since July 2 there have been 9,619 excess deaths in England and Wales, of which 48 per cent (4,635) were not caused by Covid-19.
So if all these extra people are not dying from coronavirus, what is killing them?
Data from Public Health England (PHE) shows that during that period there were 2,103 extra death registrations with ischemic heart disease, 1,552 with heart failure, as well as an extra 760 deaths with cerebrovascular diseases such as stroke and aneurysm and 3,915 with other circulatory diseases. 

Acute and chronic respiratory infections were also up with 3,416 more mentions on death certificates than expected since the start of July, while there have been 1,234 extra urinary system disease deaths, 324 with cirrhosis and liver disease and 1,905 with diabetes.
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Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
The testimonies project – the movie
The Testimonies Project was created to provide a platform for all those who were affected after getting the covid-19 vaccines, and to make sure their voices are heard, since they are not heard in the Israeli media.
We hope this project will encourage more and more people to tell their story.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
“a leaky vaccine is one that lacks sterilizing immunity. it prevents severe infection and perhaps death, but it does not stop infection and colonization by virus. so, the vaccinated become a carrier but remain unaware of it. this is a massive accelerator of disease spread and possibly/probably of overall fatality rates.”
Here’s a good article that can help y’all understand “leaky” vaccines and the problems that potentially arise from them.  Read the part about how vaccinated chickens spread Marek’s virus to unvaxxed chickens and cause them to die quickly.  This is what might happen to us.  If you are unvaxxed, keep well distant from any infected vaccinated people!
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This chicken vaccine makes its virus more dangerous
PBS Newshour
Jul 27, 2015
The deadliest strains of viruses often take care of themselves — they flare up and then die out. This is because they are so good at destroying cells and causing illness that they ultimately kill their host before they have time to spread.
But a chicken virus that represents one of the deadliest germs in history breaks from this conventional wisdom, thanks to an inadvertent effect from a vaccine. Chickens vaccinated against Marek’s disease rarely get sick. But the vaccine does not prevent them from spreading Marek’s to unvaccinated birds.
“With the hottest strains, every unvaccinated bird dies within 10 days. There is no human virus that is that hot. Ebola, for example, doesn’t kill everything in 10 days.”
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