Economic illiteracy is running rampant. It would be a huge inflationary mistake if we mass deported them all.
Employment Chart Notes
- Foreign-born workers are employees who reside in the United States but who were not US citizens at birth. They may be citizens now. The BLS’s definition includes both legal and undocumented immigrants.
- To be officially unemployed, one needs to be out of work, capable of working, and actively seeking work.
- U4 (not shown) includes discouraged workers defined as someone who is able and eligible to work but is not actively looking for a job because they believe their search would be unsuccessful.
- U5 includes U4 plus marginally attached workers. Marginally attached workers are people who are available for work and want a job, but haven’t looked for work in the past year for reasons other than discouragement.
How Many Illegals Are There?
- Steven Camarota, research director for the Center for Immigration Studies recently provided PolitiFact with a preliminary estimate of 14 million people in the country illegally as of March 2024.
- The Federation for American Immigration Reform, a group advocating for reduced immigration, says there were 16.8 million in 2023.
The above stats are from the Austin Statesman. So, let’s call it 14 million on the low end and 18 million on the high end.
Shortages If All Foreign Born Employment Removed
We would have a shortage of 24 million employees if we booted all foreign-born employees.
No one is proposing that. Some are here legally and some are even US citizens.
The problem is the BLS definition includes both legal and undocumented immigrants.
Let’s approach this from a different angle.
Migration Policy Immigrant Age Estimates
From the migration policy age estimates, We can makes some reasonable estimates of labor shortages under the “Export Them All” demand.
Assume 16 million illegal immigrants, 90 percent are working age and 25 percent are unemployed.
That’s 16 * 0.90 * 0.75 = 10.8 million working.
Here are the numbers at 18 million.
18 * 0.90 * 0.75 = 12.2 million working.
I am reasonably confident of the 90 percent working age number, less so the employment percentage.
But even higher levels of employment are possible. So let’s do one more number crunch assuming a 20 percent unemployment rate.
18 * 0.90 * 0.80 = 13.0 million working.
The higher the numbers of immigrants and the more who are working, the bigger the problem.
My ballpark range is 9.0 to 13.0 million workers.
Given an unemployment level of 7 million, if you deport 9 to 13 million workers, you are going to have one hell of a labor shortage problem coupled with a massive jump in inflation. Competition for those jobs would explode.
I am surprised no economist, at least that I have seen, has taken a stab at what this might do to the labor force, so I did.
If my numbers aren’t the right ones, then have at it. Even if I am too high by 50 percent we would have one huge problem.
Complicated Subject
The above math shows it’s a complicated subject. Even Trump has admitted as much.
Consider these comments from Trump in a Wall Street Journal interview.
“We have a lot of good people in this country, and we have to do something about it,” Mr. Trump said. “This has been going on for a long time. It’s a complicated subject.” He declined to specify whom he’d deport: “I don’t want to go too much into clarification, because the nicer I become, the more people that come over illegally.” Yet after stringent talk about deterrence, he ended with nuance: “There are some human questions that get in the way of being perfect, and we have to have the heart, too.”
[The WSJ concludes, and I agree] Mr. Trump can do much on immigration by executive action, but a durable solution needs legislation. Maybe Democrats, after the electoral haymaker they got last week, will be willing to compromise more than they have in the past. Mr. Trump missed a chance for a bipartisan deal in 2018 to permanently change the border incentives on asylum and more. He’ll have a narrow window again next year, if he’s willing and has the heart.
A Sensible Plan
A sensible plan is to deport the criminals, shut the border, improve the legal process, give priority to parents and spouses of US citizens, give priority to those here the longest, and give priority to those working.
How Ugly Will Trump’s Mass Deportation Get?
Yesterday, I asked How Ugly Will Trump’s Mass Deportation Get?
I am sad to report the unthinking consensus opinion is I don’t give a damn, just do it.
Fortunately, Trump seems to be rethinking what’s needed according to the above Wall Street Journal interview.
For more details of what Trump said and the current plan, please click on the above link.
Looks like you’re conflating “illegal immigrants” with “foreign born employees”.
Nobody proposed deporting legal immigrants.
It would help if you read my post
I said the same thing
Let’s look at a minimum salary income for a minimum wage earner monthly
1) health and dental care salary income allocation – $800.00
2) retirement salary income allocation – $300.00
3) base minimum salary income allocation $4,500.00
4) gross monthly employee income revenues allocation monthly – $5,600.00 / 160 hrs monthly – $35.00 an hour
Regarding the use of e-verify as a way of restricting illegal immigrant employment, note the following recent news:
“…Each of the 11 alleged underage individuals passed the E-Verify system by using false identification. Each used a different name to obtain employment with Smithfield than the name by which DLI identified them to Smithfield..”
Smithfield was FINED $2 million for employing under-aged workers.
Let’s look at the tax revenues that a minimum wage generates minimum annualized wage income- $60,000.00
1) federal tax revenues- $5,500.00
2) employee and employer FICA tax revenues – $9,200.00
3) state taxes Montana- $ 2,600.00
4) gross tax revenues on a minimum living salary at $60,000.00 per year – $17,300.00
Many illegal workers are not earning a very modesty living income of $60,000.00 a year and as such are not effectively provided anything towards their revenue share per capita that is needed to sustain both a living income nor real tax liabilities revenues
If we have 10 million Immigrants generating a gross taxes revenue of $17,300.00 at a living salary at $60,000.00 then there might be a positive financial impact?
Help wanted minimum living income starting at $60,000.00
Since most illegal immigrants are working in the cash economy, who knows what they are making. One solution is to IMPUTE an income and use that to calculate the cost of a work permit,
People forget that the reduced cost of immigrant labor is a benefit the employer gains, while the rest of the populace loses because they have to pay for the socialized benefits plus more competition in wages. If you are a poor native, the last thing you should want is more immigrants. Of course the socialized benefit is a state by state case.
Exactly, send the illegal immigrants out of our country. How can a legal wage earner complete with an illegal immigrant?
Between the drop in labor participation rate and the increase in the percent of government employees (from 5 percent to 15 percent), it appears to me that replacing the labor should not be a problem unless we want the percentage of workers working for the government and those not participating in the labor force to continue to grow.
The destruction of the US industrial base and uncontrolled immigration are problems that our government has allowed to get so large that the solutions are impossible without pain that nobody will accept.
67% of all prison inmates in Switzerland are foreign-born foreigners.
50% of German prisoners are foreigners; similar numbers across Europe.
Tell us all again the true cost of illegal immigration? Count your prison and police bill.
what the number for usa?
I have a special US visa, I had to apply for one, and meet stringent requirements and pay money to get one.
My wife has a visa for my country, and she had to meet stringent requirements and pay a lot of money to get one. Now people are advocating that the lowest class of people can just ignore all the laws and do what they want, grab what they want, neer mind the personal resentment of those of us who follow the US law and regulations, how is this not corrosive to society and undermining the economy too?!
There is no justification for it, just saying “economics, and to hell with the law” is an appalling answer. It sends entirely the wrong message to the outside world.
So sorry MISH
I’ve advocated since 90’s
if unemployed/want meal/shelter
then line up at bus were we take you to day laborers
sanctioned by govt instead of bastardizing them
now we get TYSONS of world who COLLABORATE illegal workers
SHAME ON ICE/GOVT
You are missing several key points. Nobody, including Tom Homan, expects to deport them all. We are only facing this problem because of Biden’s irresponsible actions. The US had very limited immigration from the mid-1920-‘s until the mid-1960’s and we didn’t have wage inflation due to restrictions. Trump slowed immigration and didn’t have inflation. The money supply is the single biggest driver of inflation, not immigration restriction. And immigration is a quality of life/civilizational issue for many people. I would rather pay more for vegetables and less for welfare, public safety and social services!
I don’t have the ability to parse it down mathematically, but working in numerous industries, I know that the economy would not survive “mass deportations.” Here’s my unsophisticated analysis:
https://x.com/WorkPlaceRpt/status/1856518324458533195
Are you earning living income as such:
Let’s figure it out.
Annualized salary income earnings:
1) health care income salary allocation – $9,600.00
2) retirement salary income salary allocation $3,600.00
3) base salary income allocation $54,000,00
4) gross minimum employee annualized employee salary income – $67,200.00 /1920 hrs annualized – $35.00 an hour. How is your employer doing here hourly wage income allocation starting at $35.00 an hour
The discussion would not be complete without mentioning the cost of apprehending, prosecuting, and imprisoning illegal aliens for violent crimes. Prison costs about the same as a year of I-V league college tuition. I’m not going to put a value on a murdered person’s life, but it certainly is much greater than $0.
Foreign born prisoners make up 15% of the US prison population. 88% of foreign born prisoners are illegal aliens. Given the amount of recent illegal aliens, the potential for the prison population and incarceration costs to explode are huge. The argument of building prisons contributing to the economy is just a rewording of the broken window fallacy.
So all those who took the time and trouble, and spent the money on a proper visa application, should just tear up our visas and demand our money back, and wait for our free flights and accommodation contracts to be sent in the mail?!
Its total doable, and moral to do it.
To say otherwise is to enable & excuse the crimes already done.
Every word anti-Whites say in denial of the great replacement ends up being an exact justification for the policy.
Moral for who? What about the hundreds of thousands of people who followed the law, and spent a lot of time and money applying for visas legally, and meeting all the requirements? Is it moral to tell them to go f themselves?!
If 10 million illegal immigrants earned a modest annualized living salary of let’s say $60,000.00 a year think about the federal – FICA and state taxes this would generate. The problem is these workers do not earn close to a living salary of $60,000.00 and drive down the wages of the citizens.
Don’t care.
Nations are not ecnomies, they are not economic zones.
Its clear that’s what a lot of people who only want to make money think. But others think bigger.
Grow the economy FOR the people of the nation, not for a polyglot shiftless mass and opportunistic capital.
The hypocrites who are worried about the economy now sure weren’t worried Americans communites were destroyed, social capital lost, ethnic communities displayed or atomized, and jobs lost to ‘cheap labor’.
Anyone opposed to drastic deportations have automatically supported the invasions to begin with. They’re traitors too.
Nice! Great wrap-up comment
Anbsolutely. I have visas for seversal countries, including yours. I applied and obtained the visa for the US legally, and met all the requirements, and took all their warnings seriously. For my own country, I expect exactly the same treatement of all foreigners. Why not? Anyone who claims there is a moral case for an amnesty does not understand morality, and is basically racist and telling people from other countries that their application of legal visa and immigration controls is somehow “immoral” – this is the complete opposite of the truth, and utterly deranged, and disrespectful.
If you work and don’t pay taxes you’re a criminal and should be deported. ALL welfare benefits (food, housing, shelter, schooling, medical care, etc.) should be eliminated for all illegals. A maximum of 2 years welfare should be allowed for U.S. Citizens. If they don’t want to work they can starve. ALL employers must e-verify. Some illegals will self-deport. Implement a $100,000 pentalty PER ILLEGAL to companies that hire illegals. I’m not worried about having enough people to do the job. There are plenty of people that are willing to come to the U.S. legally and take the jobs. Speaking English is a mandatory if you want to come to the U.S.
Hilarious; I honestly can’t tell if some of these posts are testing out comedy routines or just simply clueless
You do know that President Trump works, but does not pay taxes, right?
“Deport them all on day 1” played to the core … but is not possible even if everyone agreed it was a good idea. I voted for Trump (less excitedly than most) … but I hope that was a talking point and not a reality. IMHO, priorites should be:
I truly believe when the word gets out that you won’t be put up in a plush hotel in the city with massive food allowances and daily turn down service … incoming will reduce notably.
The people voted for it. It’s not complicated. Give them what they voted for, or don’t bother having elections at all; in fact, don’t bother having laws, just let every foreigner do whatever they like, and see how quickly your economy implodes into chaos.
Nope. Don’t agree at all, here. Deport all illegals immediately!
Mish, what exactly do you mean by “shut the border”? The US depends on an enormous amount of goods that come over the US/Mexican border every single day for trade, and thousands legally cross the border on a daily basis for a large variety of reasons. The San Ysidro Port of Entry has 70K vehicles, and 20K pedestrians each day. If you are specifically referring to eliminating asylum seekers, then this needs to be defined, and how do you propose changing the UN 1951 Convention and 1967 Protocols?
Don’t be obtuse. Obviously “shut the border” is not meant literally as a wholesale blockade.
It’s not obtuse at all. Even if Mish meant to shut the border to all new illegal immigration from coming in, the reality of global trade is drivers and pedestrians come through our borders everyday. Some people stay beyond their visas or permits. Hiring more border patrol officers (which itself is expensive) does not keep out these people. And don’t get us started on the inflationary impact of shutting out all trade (and the foreign people making that actually happen day to day). The reality – which Mish is referencing – is way more complicated than your ‘simple’ solutions.
It is indeed very complex and only about 25% of illegal immigrants come over the Mexican border. The rest from countries like China, India, Afghanistan, Russian, and Turkey usually fly here. How are these to be handled? “Shut the border” is a gross over simplification and realistically means nothing.
Sometimes the best approach is to correct the future, but admit the democrats won in the past for the most part. Too nasty is not worth it. Fix it going forward, but mostly process the rest. Make em “earn” citizenship or leave. Put the really bad people in prison.
Less supply, but also less demand. We should also reduce minimum wage for young people and allow them to get jobs where they currently cannot compete with grown ups working low skilled jobs. Teenagers don’t really get to work anymore, mostly because there aren’t many good options.
It is correct though. We can’t deport them all. Booting out the criminals and freeloaders should be our priority. And end birthright citizenship.
This is an imporant point that is implied in Mish’s argument – that he thinks its right to unrdercut the incomes of citizens in favour of foreign lawbreakers, and undercut the incomes of engineers with foreign lawbreakers, and undermine the legal visa and immigration system by disrespecting all those educated people who followed the law, in favour of uneducated people who broke the law. All to keep his personal living costs down – but any short-term gains will be destroyed in the long-term by such an idiotic immoral policy.
The United States should be very selective about allowing illegal immigrants in who are age 35 or older. Less than 1% of illegal immigrants over 35 should be allowed in. The older an illegal immigrant is, the more likely they will be a net burden on the country.
Also the older they are the less likley they are to assimilate into the culture and/or speak the language. Over the last 50 years the lack of insistance on a tight standard for this has weakened this country and helped to walk us down a road of balkanization
I like Mish’s list but the logical prioritization is more like this:
(0) Ongoing – Stop the Bleeding: capture and jail anyone who committed crimes above and beyond crossing the border illegally. But given the underlying illegal immigration crime, upgrade any criminal proceedings to Federal jurisdiction to avoid “sanctuary” evasions.
(1) Establish proper border controls – stem the flow.
(2) Fix the Legal immigration process (too inefficient to meet current demand).
(3) Following due process, deport the jailed “above and beyond” criminals from (0). This has to come after (1).
(4) Get everyone here illegally to apply for legal status “as if they were just arriving”. Those who are working (or with well-documented support from well-documented family working in the U.S.) can have permits in the meantime. Everyone else doesn’t have a place here and isn’t contributing, so they should be deported in a humane way. I don’t think “duration in the U.S.” is a meaningful criterion, what matters is the current level of economic and social contributions.
(5) Re-establish local control over things like mass importation of factory workers by “staffing” companies. Communities need time to adapt, and shouldn’t face surges of outsiders greater than a few % of local population in any given year.
There will need to be collaboration with the Mexican and Canadian governments to create refugee camps on their sides of the borders – if any of these people are genuine refugees at all. However, knowing what countries they come from, the US can save time and money by funding refugee camps in countries closer to where these people came from, such as in south-eastern Panama.
Here’s Letmy plan.
Let the illegals stay.
Impose a 1 year prison sentence on everyperson who has employed an illegal.
No parole, no time off.
One year sentence for every illegal you or your corporation employs.
Stupid. Please review the math I posted
You already demonstrated last week that you can’t do maths, you don’t even check for typos, and you seem to think your every utterance is of equal value. What you are proposing in this post is immoral and long-term uneconomic.
More non-lawyers creating laws to fix problems LOL; it’s SO easy LOL
Do you go to jail when a roofer on your replacement roof job ends up being in the US legally? Or when you hire an ‘illegal’ handyman (how often do you ask for a passport?)? Or when you buy fruit from a farmers’ market with the picker and cashier having no papers?
Where does the train of ’employment’ start and end? Who decides? Who loses a year of their life with your ‘simple solution’? That’s why we don’t let blog posters write laws. They don’t even understand that they don’t understand LOL
Speaking of economic illiteracy. Re the labor-market consequences of deporting workers, it’s my impression that higher costs (including wages) have never been responsible for inflation. (If somebody’s already made this point, apologies; I don’t have time to read comments right now.) More substantial is the property rights issue. Citizens own an undistributed interest in the assets and liabilities of their country, including a few hundred years of cultural development, legal thought, statute law, and custom. The interest resembles that in a general partnership. I can’t drop by an investment company, for instance, and say, “Hi, I’m your new partner.” Illegals entering this country have done exactly that, infringing the property rights of every citizen. They should be deported. Or, alternatively, they should be taxed at a rate high enough (above citizens’ rates) to effect a “buy-in.”
Yep, Golden Visa is an idea.
Plus anyone with that kinda money is already left-leaning! Interesting that it creates another kind of resentment.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/portugals-revamped-golden-visa-scheme-boost-investment-funds-2024-01-09/
PS – don’t forget the undistributed $30+T debt but I agree US assets far exceed the debt …thank god they mostly aren’t liquidatable.
So much wrong here.
I’ll start with only the first. If you think you get a big pay raise, and your boss doesn’t increase prices to consumers any, you must not work or buy anything in a marketplace.
Mish’s assertion was that deportations would be inflationary. Your boss may try to pass along the higher costs of your wages, but if he succeeds (under many circumstances, he may not) that isn’t inflation: A general increase in prices requires expansion of the money supply at a rate higher than an economy’s growth of goods and services.
Yeah, once again, a clueless response about economic phenomena from someone not understanding basic economics
Inflation IS a general increase in prices. Ask the many complainers on this website about prices going up and why Biden needed to go. You can call a dog a cat, but that won’t mean you’ll hear a ‘meow’
Price rises are not inflation, price rises are due to scarcity, which can be real or synthetic.
Inflation is where credit is issued at a faster rate than the growth of the economy. Inflation happens in a growing economy with expanding credit which means an expanding money supply; deflation happens in a contracting economy with contracting credit which means contracting money supply.
The whole point of hiring illegal immigrants is to cut costs because credit is contracting, and it is deflationary.
That does not automatically mean that hiring locals at higher wages is inflationary when there is still a lack of credit. It can result in layoffs to maintain costs and a customer base, or though efficiencies sometimes via technologies replacing labour. If that doesn’t happen, and if prices go up in an economy where credit is contracting, then demand drops, and you get layoffs anyway. The idea that just not hiring cheap illegal labour and spending money deporting them as inflationary is like saying there is infinite money to keep bidding prices up, but debt has limits, and as it rises, natural brakes on it come, and slow down the economy and forice either innovation or layoffs to keep businesses from folding.
You are the clueless economic illiterate, and you are in position to lecture or berate anyone.
And I guess with this same logic, you think all of us citizens should pay higher taxes for reparations payments?
Since so much of the ‘assets’ of our country – including ‘cultural development’ and ‘custom’ – came on the backs of whipped and gunshot Native Americans and black slaves brought here against their will from African and other nations. Under this logic, our ancestors ‘infringed the property rights’ others. So now we owe them appropriate ‘buy-in’ payments?
See how complicated reality is for such simple solutions
Oy gevalt, a wokey-doke lecturing on economics.
Send the bill to the companies that hired them, and use the money to build “humanitarian refugee camps” outside the USA… the same applies to the UK, and EU countries. Australia can manage it, and they are an even softer touch than the US is.
Starting with known criminals and those illegals that have been getting Govt assistance is a good place to start. Any illegal that assisted in the illegal crossings (including drugs) should obviously be deported, and throw the citizens in jail.
Increased wages for Americans filling the vacancies would not necessarily be bad if it gets them off of Govt assistance. How many of the lost jobs could be replaced by robots?
The bottom line is you can’t reward illegal activity, and we must be able to select who is needed to enter the country legally. Improve the efficiency of the legal entry process. I know several engineers from India that have been waiting many years to become citizens.
He has better advisors this time. Ramaswamy and Musk are both brilliant and practical, as is Vance. Hopefully, he will listen to them. I wish he would hire Luke Gromen. If you haven’t heard or read his stuff, look him up on YouTube.
Hey Matt – Here is your reply from Luke.
“Thank them for me”
https://x.com/LukeGromen/status/1856791378849562906
Luke Gromen is not that good, there are much better people about, ones who know about the Eurodollar system. Gromen is just another online fake financial guru pushing the same ignorant garbage about “inflation” that doesn’t exist.
John Thune wins….ROFLMAO
You may have noticed Trumps administration picks are far from the Old Guard gatekeepers. They do not have to cut deals.
Biden has already proven Congress lacks the guts to do anything about executive orders.
No matter what McConnell tries to pull with Thune any new Bills coming before Senate will be faced with some new Blood Senators. These same people are not bound to McConnell and Rino class.
Thune if he attempts to buck the electorate is going to get run over.
Why are you talking about McConnell? His term as a leader expires in less than two months LOL
Do you think it ends at retirement, all those back room deals?
Revolving door between deep state supporters such as McConnell and Deep state.
In any case Gabbard, director of National Intelligence and Gaetz as Attorney General.
Let us see the Senate Block the nominations and then explain that to American people right after Trump won a mandate.
Trump is showing America what these people are comprised of.
If a person wants to take odds on outcome, would not be betting against Trump.
“Thune if he attempts to buck the electorate is going to get run over”
From my previous post, lol.
Sorry, forgot about the Deep state. What was I thinking? I retract it all. I should have known better than to question you (the architect of the new Senate strategy for the next two years)
LOL
I know I am thrilled by his picks.
Just deport criminals. The rest of it, nothing can be done but maybe cease all welfare but that ain’t gonna happen so deporting criminals is the answer which damn near everyone agrees with except people who think people should be able to move around like water on the planet. Those people should also be deported along with the criminals.
Here’s my plan. Give every illegal 3 months to register, provide proof they are doing useful work, not violating our laws, illegally voting and generally contributing to society rather than becoming a burden or engaging in criminal conduct. Those who meet the required standards can apply for temporary work visas with the understanding that the visas can eventually become permanent with a path to citizenship if they prove over time that they can be loyal and contributing citizens. Willingness to learn English and pass the existent citizenship tests usually required in the past should also be required and a strong consideration for the “privilege” of citizenship. Those who refuse to register and properly apply should be arrested and deported immediately. Employers who currently employ illegals should be required to prove that their illegal employees have properly registered. Amnesty for their past decisions to employ illegals will be given if they are in strict compliance. If they fail or refuse to do so the employers should be heavily fined and/or prosecuted if they continue to employ such illegals. My guess is that strict compliance with the above-listed requirements will weed out millions of illegal immigrants who will then be returned to their country of origin. Illegals deported who attempt to return in violation of immigration laws should be prosecuted and jailed and then deported once they serve their sentence. Same for all prospective illegals who attempt to illegally enter the country in the future.
Best thing Trump could do would be to implement a 50% Discount/Rebate policy at retail sale and at point of loan signing that way evertyone gets a 100% increase in their purchasing power, mathematically ends inflation and everyone can get big ticket items like $60k autos and $500k homes for $15k and $125k respectively. That would transform him from an idiot demagogue to the greatest president since Lincoln. History shows that paradigm changes are integrations of conceptual opposites and integrations of traditionally opposed self interests as well. Democrats aren’t smart enough to see this. Perhaps republicans will be cunning enough to do so.
“Competition for those jobs would explode”
We could then shut down dept of unemployment problem solved.
You mish the point – wages and inflation would soar
How so?
The whole point of hiring illegal immigrants is to cut costs because credit is contracting, and it is deflationary.
That does not automatically mean that hiring locals at higher wages is inflationary when there is still a lack of credit. It can result in layoffs to maintain costs and a customer base, or though efficiencies sometimes via technologies replacing labour.
If that doesn’t happen, and if prices go up in an economy where credit is contracting, then demand drops, and you get layoffs anyway.
The idea that just not hiring cheap illegal labour and spending money deporting them as inflationary is like saying there is infinite money to keep bidding prices up, but debt has limits, and as it rises, natural brakes on it come, and slow down the economy and forice either innovation or layoffs to keep businesses from folding.
Price rises are not inflation, price rises are due to scarcity, which can be real or synthetic.
Inflation is where credit is issued at a faster rate than the growth of the economy.
Inflation happens in a growing economy with expanding credit which means an expanding money supply; deflation happens in a contracting economy with contracting credit which means contracting money supply.
If “wages soar”, who is buying the products of those wages?! You keep reporting how the consumer is all spent up with nothing left to give. How do wages soar without companies making more sales and more revenues and paying more wages? Where does this magical money come from?!
If “inflation soars”, where is the extra currency coming from? Where are the soaring loans and soaring credit issuance from banks? Who is spending “bank reserves”? Where does this magical extra money supply come from?
Honestly, if you can’t explain your magical money theory of inflation, please stop repeating it. Like I said, you can’t do maths; I used to teach maths at university: probability and statistics. Please explain how I am wrong.
Good stuff here.
A LOT of people on this site need a basic economics lesson LOL
Flawed data to make a equally flawed charts.
Exactly! Prior to 2020, it was WIDELY estimated that there were between 11-15M illegals in the US. By adding the 10M+ that Biden let in, this is where Vance has gotten his often-repeated and WAY more accurate 25M number.
How can you right an article if you start with only 64% of the actual number of illegals living in the US?
And there’s no mention of self-deportations.
Let’s pan tariffs all day long but act like we can’t muster the national will to replace the majority of illegals with American workers in residential & commercial construction.
That should be the near-term goal over the next 8-10 years. Doing this correctly & effectively will take longer than Trump’s final term.
Actually implementing most of Trump’s policies would result in the biggest case of political suicide we’ve ever seen. Best examples are immigration and abortion. Demagogues always deal in lies and fear. Thats why they always destabilize their own political power when what they said to get in office either causes mass social resistance and/or they are not able to follow through and people FINALLY see them as the clowns they are.
The only way they can stop their political suicide is to repress. Think about it…if you’re not totally overtaken by your various orthodoxies that you can’t.
Name calling worked so well for you in this election. Double down.
When the name calling is true…its true. History confirms what I said. And you’re the one doublling down…on delusion, not me.
The populace disagrees. Hitler, fascist, demagogue blah blah blah. Try harder. Gonna be a long 4 years for you….by the way. Odd that Biden is welcoming Trump to the White House this morning. 8 days ago he was calling him Hitler. Would you welcome Hitler? Unless…its just mindless screeching liberal name calling on display. Like always. They have called candidates Hitler since Truman’s election. It’s their playbook. Hell they called Romney Hitler like. It’d be funny if it wasn’t so embarrassing. And you slurp it up instead of critical thinking.
I’m probably the only poster here who recognizes the flaws of both parties. What does that make me? The most objective poster here,
The opposite of the truth – in many countries the public are desperate for deportation to happen.
How about we start with the several million unvetted migrants from the last several years who are not yet integrated into society and are still a tremendous burden on the taxpayers
After tossing the ganga and criminals, it is reasonable to discuss those arriving in the past year
What does “discuss” mean, Mish?
Amnesty? If so, then hell no!
Just think what could be done if the illegals over 18 were allowed to vote.
To paraphrase a purported Mark Twain quotation:
If voting made any difference they wouldn’t let us do it.
1) Stop the pontificating and start the deporting … bureaucracies love to try and predict/optimize the process but something this complicated and important is a “just do it” task (adjust as needed).
2) Legislation is not a cure (long- or short-term); the Dem’s show they’ll ignore it.
Total Cloward Piven past 4 years … luckily was recognized by populace soon enough.
Can you put a dollar value on stopping the attempt to systematically undermine the culture with third worlders?
It’s John Lennon economics… just socialism, and socialism leads to poverty for all.
Jobs for 20 million on the welfare rolls are worth the cost of inflation. Plus the welfare benefits becoming worthless is a benefit of inflation.
Benefits will be increased enough to compensate for inflation.
If you are poor enough to qualify.
Government reported inflation and the cost of living index bear no relation to truth, reality, or the cost of insurance, medicine, food, energy, lodging, transportation, taxes, and regulations.
You can’t tell anything from those numbers. You have people here illegally using SS numbers of people here legally. You have legals mixed with illegals in the numbers. The fact is if you deport the illegals rent prices are going to drop like a rock. There will be no inflation because demand for everything will drop like a rock. We have a process for bringing in workers. It is H2a visa. But business doesn’t want to pay prevailing wage. I say ban all government help for illegals, limit asylum and parole visas to 30,000 a year and prosecute people who hire illegals and 18 million will go home on their own.
Please see the Dignity Act Bill regarding priorities (HR3599).
It was a bipartisan bill.
The illegal immigrant workers can be replaced with legal, screened and vetted immigrant workers.
Trump said what he had to say to win the election. Now he can take small reasonable steps while maintaining intense competition on the lower end of the wage scales. He’s not going to crash the economy like he did with COVID.
The economy is held together with baling wire and bubble gum. He is absolutely going to crash it if he keeps ANY of those promises.
The moron masses are in charge now.
The people voted for this wreck.
Screeching intensifies
Fox News Host Pete Hegseth For SecDef LMAOOh the shiat show that is in store for all of us when this admin gets going is going to be precious !!
So what exactly makes him a laughable choice aside from the fact that you have a problem with him having been a host on Fox?
I don’t know if I would go with “laughable”, but I think he achieved the rank of major and served much/most of his time in the National Guard. And has no national security experience. And now he will be in charge of the entire Defense Department. Certainly does not ring meritocratic. BUT he does probably know more about defense issues than Trump? So there’s that
Can we deport all the immigrants w/ violent/criminal records??
Or is this “economically foolish” ??
…just asking.
Both of them will be deported once they get out of jail.
Both? Tell that to the families of the young women killed by illegals.
Which is how many exactly?
Apparently, the topic played well with a majority of voters, despite the reality.
Rule of law usually does. Look at CA where they voted to stop the ridiculous theft policies of woke DAs
It’s foolish to even consider the deportation of all illegal immigrants. As a matter of fact it is not even possible. Everyone knows this including President Trump.
Trump is taking the right approach in prioritizing the criminal element. I’m confident that Trump will carry this out in a prudent manner. If he needs help he should consult with Obama who deported 3 million during his first term. Trump has only deported 1.5 million so far and needs to deport another 3.3 million just to keep up with Obama’s two term total.
Trump has to speak forceably on deportation as his rhetoric is our best defense against illegal immigration.
It’s completely possible. Just prosecute the people employing and housing illegals under 8 USC 1324 and they’ll deport themselves when they have no jobs and no where to live. It’s all an arbitrage game to avoid paying legal wages and pushing the cost onto everyone else. Those employers belong in prison already.
Increasing legal immigration is the answer. Educated foreign workers, and skilled trades immigrants is the total answer. Empty one bucket – the criminals and unproductive illegal migrants. Increase the other bucket – those that will support economic growth through their productive talents. America should choose based on commercial needs, not on a chaotic, socialist Democratic Party strategy to remake America
YES! This should be blindingly obvious.
The economic cost of suspending rule of law to allow uneducated people with no verifiable background, many of whom can be highly dangerous to society, is obvious.
Not even sure how foreign people here legally got in this conversation.Nobody is talking about deporting all foreign born people!
So we have people/ companies breaking the law to a tune of 10 million people? We have a major issue there when we can pick and choose which laws to follow.
need to up these fines if caught hiring people not allowed to work in the US.
“need to up these fines if caught hiring people not allowed to work in the US.”
So when immigration raids happen what are the usual places that get raided? Farms, meat packing plants, construction sites.
https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-us-news-ap-top-news-arrests-immigration-bbcef8ddae4e4303983c91880559cf23
Food inflation is already high and it will only go higher if you start fining these businesses to the max, they’ll just pass along those fines to the consumer, the “business” isn’t going to take the loss, you will.
Same for housing, meats, etc.
having a tightly controlled seasonal guest worker program would solve this issue and actually offer better protections for those people to boot.