Let’s start with results. What has Trump achieved?
How Many Has Trump Deported?
Please consider Deportation in the second presidency of Donald Trump
The Trump administration has claimed that around 140,000 people had been deported as of April 2025, though some estimates put the number at roughly half that amount.
During his rallies, Trump blurred the distinction between legal and illegal immigrants, and promised to deport both. Trump did not rule out separating families with mixed citizenship status. On the campaign trail in December 2023, President Donald Trump said immigrants coming to the U.S. are “poisoning the blood of our country,” a remark that quickly drew a rebuke from his chief Democratic rival, as President Joe Biden’s campaign likened the words to those of Adolf Hitler.
Trump told a rally audience in September 2024 that the deportation effort “will be a bloody story.” He has also spoken of rounding up homeless people in blue cities and detaining them in camps. The Trump team will also attempt to overturn the Flores settlement that prevents the indefinite holding of children.
Trump’s campaign has stated his intention to expel DACA recipients after his previous attempt failed in 2020 by a 5–4 vote in the Supreme Court in Department of Homeland Security v. Regents of the University of California.
Trump set a goal of 1,200 to 1,500 ICE arrests per day, but his administration has largely failed to meet these targets. Trump’s administration saw about 800 ICE arrests per day after he took office in January, declining to fewer than 600 arrests per day in February, at which point ICE stopped publishing daily statistics.
Amid relatively low numbers of ICE arrests and deportations, Trump’s administration sought to inflate the presence of deportations in media, such as by posting images of shackled deportees on social media, manipulating google searches by updating timestamps of old ICE press releases, and allowing celebrities like Dr. Phil to accompany ICE raids.
In February 2025, Reuters reported that ICE planned to locate over 600,000 people who entered the US as children without their parents, some of whom were no longer children and some of whom had rejoined and were living with parents, and either deport them, if deportation had already been ordered, or serve notice to appear in immigration court. On March 6, 2025, ICE began to detain immigrant parents and children together in a Texas detention facility. The first group contained 3 minor children.
Those clips are roughly in line with Trump’s claims to “deport them all”
That’s ~100,000 down and ~12 million to go, the latter in a range of estimates of 11-18 million.
The Softer Side of Trump
On November, 11. 2024, the Wall Street Journal discussed Trump’s Mass Deportation Promise
Mr. Trump announced late Sunday that Tom Homan, his former acting head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, has agreed to be his new border czar. Mr. Homan will be “in charge of our Nation’s Borders,” plus “all Deportation of Illegal Aliens back to their Country of Origin,” Mr. Trump wrote on Truth Social. Media leaks Monday said Stephen Miller, who advised Mr. Trump on immigration policy in the first term, is likely to be White House deputy chief of staff for policy.
How it goes depends on what Mr. Trump means. Speaking Monday on Fox News, Mr. Homan said the priority will be “public-safety threats and national-security threats,” as well as migrants who “had due process” and “their federal judge said ‘you must go home,’ and they didn’t.”
Good to hear, and add what Mr. Homan told “60 Minutes” last month. “It’s not going to be a mass sweep of neighborhoods,” he said. “It’s not going to be building concentration camps. I’ve read it all. It’s ridiculous.”
Instead he said Mr. Trump’s plan would involve “targeted arrests,” and eventually “worksite enforcement operations.” If officers making an arrest also find an undocumented grandma in the house, will they detain her? “It depends,” Mr. Homan said. “Let the judge decide.”
Some of Mr. Trump’s advisers, including Mr. Miller, have talked about mass deportation in sweeping terms. But enforcement priorities are up to the President, and Mr. Trump has suggested he isn’t interested in illegal grandmothers.
When he visited the Journal recently, we asked about aliens who have been here for years, who might have U.S. citizen spouses and children. His response was that he wanted to help them.
“We have a lot of good people in this country, and we have to do something about it,” Mr. Trump said. “This has been going on for a long time. It’s a complicated subject.” He declined to specify whom he’d deport: “I don’t want to go too much into clarification, because the nicer I become, the more people that come over illegally.” Yet after stringent talk about deterrence, he ended with nuance: “There are some human questions that get in the way of being perfect, and we have to have the heart, too.”
Mr. Trump can do much on immigration by executive action, but a durable solution needs legislation. Maybe Democrats, after the electoral haymaker they got last week, will be willing to compromise more than they have in the past. Mr. Trump missed a chance for a bipartisan deal in 2018 to permanently change the border incentives on asylum and more. He’ll have a narrow window again next year, if he’s willing and has the heart.
A Sensible Plan
A sensible plan is to deport the criminals, shut the border, improve the legal process, give priority to parents and spouses of US citizens, give priority to those here the longest, and give priority to those working.
A Watered Down Deportation Effort?
On December 15, the Wall Street Journal reported Trump Allies Fear Watered Down Deportation Efforts
In the weeks since the election, and even in some rally speeches toward the end of the campaign, Trump and his incoming advisers have alluded to a mass removal effort of immigrants with a criminal record, a far narrower set of people than the 15 million to 20 million Trump pledged to deport earlier in the year. Tom Homan, the president-elect’s incoming border czar, has said Trump’s team isn’t planning to perform mass raids in immigrant enclaves—the worst fear of immigrants-rights activists.
“This isn’t going to be neighborhood sweeps and military vehicles going through the city,” Homan said in an interview with Dr. Phil McGraw on Thursday after meeting with New York Mayor Eric Adams. “I told him, you know, President Trump and myself have committed that this is going to be a targeted enforcement operation.”
Homan pushed back on the notion that the deportation has been vastly narrowed. “I have not taken anyone off the table,” he said. “We just need to be smart.”
Trump’s hard-line immigration backers say they have noticed a retrenchment. They say they are holding their fire to attempt to influence the incoming president before they criticize him openly.
The president-elect’s allies also are concerned by the Trump team’s willingness to exclude some categories of migrants. Trump said in a recent interview with NBC, for example, that he wanted to work with Democrats to come up with legislation to protect Dreamers, immigrants in the U.S. illegally who were brought as children, from deportation. Backers of hard-line immigration policies view an exemption for Dreamers, who often have bipartisan support, as a slippery slope.
“We’re starting with the criminals and we’ve got to do it,” Trump said in the same interview. “And then we’re starting with others and we’re going to see how it goes.” Pressed on deporting migrants who crossed the border illegally but don’t have criminal backgrounds, Trump continued to talk about “murderers” and “dangerous people,” while adding: “I think you have to do it, and it’s a hard—it’s a very tough thing to do.”
One frustrated Trump ally said: “When you keep excluding people from mass detention and deportation and saying ‘we’ll get the worst of the worst first’—well, guess what, that also happens to be Biden’s immigration policy.”
Trump’s deportation plans are facing many logistical hurdles that his team has generally started to publicly acknowledge following the election. For example, most of the migrants who entered the country under the Biden administration are currently awaiting court hearings and can’t be deported in the meantime. Among those who can be legally deported, many live in blue cities and states, where Trump is far less likely to have local cooperation to help track them down and turn them over.
The Middle Ground
We need sensible immigration policy. Mass deportation of 10 to 15 million immigrants (or even 6 million) is not sensible.
It’s a dirty, not-so-secret, fact that red state and blue state alike depend on migrant labor for construction projects, hotels, cooking and cleaning jobs etc.
I have repeatedly suggest we deport criminals, have a reasonable amnesty program for hard working immigrants who have been here for years, and mostly close the border using the military if necessary.
Trump Says Dreamers Should Stay!
On December 9, 2024, I noted On Meet the Press, Trump Said He “Wants the Illegal Dreamers to Stay”
Trump’s interview on Meet the Press sounds exactly like the deportation strategy I proposed.
Partial Interview Transcript (Emphasis Mine)
Kristen Welker:
What about dreamers, sir? Dreamers, who were brought to this country illegally as children. You said once back in 2017 they, quote, “Shouldn’t be very worried about being deported.” Should they be worried now?President-Elect Trump:
The dreamers are going to come later, and we have to do something about the dreamers because these are people that have been brought here at a very young age. And many of these are middle-aged people now. They don’t even speak the language of their country. And yes, we’re going to do something about the dreamers. And —Kristen Welker:
What does that mean? What are you going to do?President-Elect Trump:
I will work with the Democrats on a plan. And if we can come up with a plan, but the Democrats have made it very, very difficult to do anything. Republicans are very open to the dreamers. The dreamers, we’re talking many years ago they were brought into this country. Many years ago. Some of them are no longer young people. And in many cases, they’ve become successful. They have great jobs. In some cases they have small businesses. Some cases they might have large businesses. And we’re going to have to do something with them.Kristen Welker:
You want them to be able to stay, that’s what you’re saying?President-Elect Trump:
I do. I want to be able to work something out, and it should’ve been able to be worked out over the last three or four years and it never got worked out. You know, Biden could’ve done it because he controlled, you know, Congress to a certain extent, right? He could’ve done something, but they didn’t do it. I never understood why because they always seemed to want to do it, but then when it comes down to it, they don’t. I think we can work with the Democrats and work something out.
What Was the Consensus?
A reader commented today “I could not disagree with Mish more about illegal immigration. It’s one of the few issues that Trump has broad popular support.”
But what was the question? Ponder these questions.
- Illegals are stealing our jobs and costing us money. Should we deport them all?
- We will have massive inflation and job shortages if we deport them all. Should we do it?
It’s easy to get the answer you want by phrasing the question one way or another.
Moreover, Trump has so poisoned the atmosphere that even a neutral-appearing question is suspect. For example, consider the question “Should we deport everyone here illegally?”
Compare that to “Should we deport everyone here illegally, even if they have been here five years, have a job, have citizen children, and have no criminal background?”
Those two statements are essentially the same because of the word “everyone”. But the answers would not be close to the same because the second question accurately spells out that “everyone” literally means “everyone”.
What Are the Costs to Deport them All?
- The first cost in rounding up 11 million people.
- The second cost is holding facilities awaiting a hearing and we have already heard the Supreme Court ruling on that.
- The third cost is a massive labor shortage especially in skilled construction, but also agriculture, hotel cleaning, and other service sector jobs.
Unless you explain the costs of an idea, answers to questions are invalid.
Try this question on for size: “Should we deport everyone here illegally, even if they have been here five years, have a job, have citizen children, and have no criminal background, at a cost of hundreds of billions of dollars, resulting in labor shortages and huge inflation?
Only confirmed bigots would answer yes. But that is exactly what deport them all means.
What Happened?
I discussed what happened in Supreme Court Rules 7-2 Against Trump on Alien Enemies Case
The Supreme Court gave Trump a much-deserved smack in the face today.
Trump did not opt for a deal. He deported people by mistake. He claims he cannot remedy his mistake.
Addendum
A reader commented “You must be happy. The fifteen+ million illegals will get to stay since it will doubtless prove procedurally impossible to deport them.”
No! I am happy about the ruling but unhappy with where we are.
There are 1 million or so criminals with warrants that should be deported. There are also 12 million or so people hard-working who should not be living in fear of being deported.
So, the whole damn thing stinks.
And yes, Biden created this mess. But Trump has to deal with the hand he is dealt, not try to turn the clock back 4 years.
Trump Takes the Wrong Path
In various interviews, Trump presented two conflicting paths forward.
He had a short window of opportunity to make a deal with Democrats. But “King Deal” did not opt for a deal.
Instead, Trump opted to throw red meat to the hyena bigots and economic illiterates screaming for deport them all even though that would have led to a massive job shortage and scorching inflation.
Making matters much worse for himself, Trump deported people by mistake. He claims he cannot remedy his mistake.
This justifiably resulted in a 7-2 Supreme Court ruling against Trump.
Ponder my final question again: “Should we deport everyone here illegally, even if they have been here five years, have a job, have citizen children, and have no criminal background, at a cost of hundreds of billions of dollars, resulting in labor shortages and huge inflation?”
Only confirmed bigots would answer yes.
Had Trump opted for a deal, we would be on our way for deporting criminals and we would have a buy-in from Democrats. And we would have labor market certainty and job stability, too! Best of all, we would have a guiding deal going forward.
Q: King Deal is not really interested in deals is he?
A: No. Trump wants to rule by seat of the pants Executive Order decree, using asinine interpretations of “Birthright Citizenship” and “Alien Enemy Invasions” to do so.
The hyenas now howl about the “Activist Court” when 100% of the problem is a “Activist Trump.
The 7-2 decision speaks for itself. Trump is the activist, not the court.
Rule of Law Addendum
A reader foolish enough to still want to deport them all despite the issues in this post asked “Does America stand for rule of law?”
That’s the great irony. Isn’t it?
Trump is breaking the law, confirmed 7-2 in the supreme court. And bigots don’t give a damn about that aspect of the rule of law.
Biden opened the floodgates.
He shouldn’t have.
And now they are entitled to a hearing, like it or not.
So do we break the law and deny the hearings because Trump and readers are bigots?
These alleged “rule of law” hypocrites don’t want any rules or laws that are contrary to there bigoted positions or contrary to what the Trump cult wants.
It’s not just the Trump cult of course. The Progressive cult led by AOC, Elizabeth Warren, and senile Biden also want to pack the courts for their purposes.
It’s cancel culture vs cancel culture with each hypocrites on each side screaming at the top of their lungs about the cancel culture.
Very few of us really give a damn about the rule of law. I am proud to be in that small minority.
Rule of Law Addendum
A reader foolish enough to still want to deport them all despite the issues in this post asked “Does America stand for rule of law?”
That’s the great irony. Isn’t it?
Trump is breaking the law, confirmed 7-2 in the supreme court. And bigots don’t give a damn about that aspect of the rule of law.
Biden opened the floodgates.
He shouldn’t have.
And now they are entitled to a hearing, like it or not.
So do we break the law and deny the hearings because Trump and readers are bigots?
These alleged “rule of law” hypocrites don’t want any rules or laws that are contrary to there bigoted positions or contrary to what the Trump cult wants.
It’s not just the Trump cult of course. The Progressive cult led by AOC, Elizabeth Warren, and senile Biden also want to pack the courts for their purposes.
It’s cancel culture vs cancel culture with each hypocrites on each side screaming at the top of their lungs about the cancel culture.
Very few of us really give a damn about the rule of law. I am proud to be in that small minority.
Supposedly the Enemy Aliens Act doesn’t provide for much (any?) court review before “they are out of here!” Does our rule of law principle require that the Enemy Aliens Act be declared unconstitutional?
P.S. Have you ever noticed why administrations send certain accused-criminals to Guantanamo, or rendition them to third countries?
“Does our rule of law principle require that the Enemy Aliens Act be declared unconstitutional?” Not necessarily. A legitimate issue is whether, by this Act, Congress has, constitutionally, or unconstitutionally, delegated its (constitutionally express, as granted by We, the People) legislative power to the executive branch. If that is constitutional, a separate issue requires a good faith interpretation of whether there is, or is not, a suitable emergency, as stated in the Act, and possibly as further interpreted in the precedent cases(s). But SCOTUS can disregard precedent, even its own, as the top court.
I am with you on abiding by the rule of law. The far right and the far left both disregard the law as is convenient for their agendas. Both the far left and far right do not care. In many ways they are one and the same.
Trump himself has flouted many laws and standards of decency. As a convicted felon, any means justify whatever end he seeks. He even cheats at golf.
Any deal trump makes is not worth the ink it is printed on so it is little wonder that he is not signing any trade deals and has to capitulate or rescind his ridiculous tariffs.
Soon we will have a ruling on the legality of his powers to tariff arbitrarily without congressional approval.
Will trump respect that ruling?
Part of the problem i notice these days is it about political parties not the elected officials representing the voters of their districts.
Republican or dem. If they disagree with their party they get threaten with being primaried.
Prob lots of reasons. Prob easier for money to control a few politicians than a nation of voters. .
Has Trump respected any ruling he doesn’t like?
What would a proper “hearing” look like is my question. Judge: “Are you authorized to be here, if so, present your visa or naturalization evidence…if not give me your absolute most solid legal argument, otherwise we give you some time to get your affairs in order”…If it ends up being a whole lot more involved than this, we’re going off the rails of Vance’s “pathological altruism”. This short hearing is more due process than many were given on the way in. Not vetting millions coming in while having to ultra vet millions on the way out would mean nothing changes. Meanwhile DJT appears poised to do the Tech Bros bidding to bring in even more “extra special” folks.
Altruism??? What I would do would be to transfer all them in expensive neighborhoods. All of them.
I know the “insufferable alcoholic pretentious upper middle class”. They have empathy and altruism for nobody. They will sue you for forgetting to cut the grass if you live in their neighborhoods. They just wanna argue something they don’t really believe, to appear “altruistic” because they know in their true lily-white world they are the biggest bigots (accusing everybody else for it).
Referring to everyone who wants the illegals out as bigots is pretty low, Mish. Trying to justify illegals being here, whoever they are, because it costs money to get justice, or really flamboyant claims of the destruction of the US economy because employers exploit the labor of a fraction of this huge immigration wave really isn’t an honest discussion either. I mean, we did pretty good as an economy before Biden let in 10 million in 3 years, so at least that many can leave and we’d be just fine. Even best cases, this kind of immigration doesn’t offer net benefits to a country for at least a generation. Until then, we all suffer.
Since 1996, Congress passed a law (the way it’s supposed to be) that allows expedited removal without a hearing in front of a judge, only a review and determination with an immigration officer. They have due process, but it does not include a judge and hearing for every case.
Deportations should go LIFO – last in, first out. Then criminals followed by unemployed. Offer an expanded H2B visa program (NOT CITIZENSHIP) for certain industries. Even if what I propose is perfected, that still accounts for more than 5 million people – something that’s probably logistically unattainable anyway. Keep the border sealed.
This other warped manipulation of law (like Alien Enemies Act) by Trump is backfiring, and unnecessary. You have to start wondering what’s really going on with the left hand when Trump waves his right hand with distractions.
Agree with the bigot comment. That’s an over the top. He said I had TDS because I agreed with Trump only on expelling criminals and not everybody else, similar to your thoughts.
Do you believe they still are entitled to Due Process, even though they didn’t follow 100% of the laws to the letter in entering the USA, or do you think they aren’t afforded Due Process because of how they entered?
I think by law, they have due process as soon as an immigration official identifies them as an illegal. It’s a matter of using existing law to do it.
I said nothing about deporting anybody, and as a matter of fact do not agree with Trump’s process and govern by decree approach.
But 8 USC 1324 is the law of the land.
Employers who do not vet their workers with E-verify should be liable to prosecution. Law enforcement with regard to illegal immigration has been a hot potato for decades both on the right and the left, promises and promises at election time, but in the end kowtowing to donor interests.
I also favor applying the racketeering and anti-trust laws (like prices for like goods), especially to the Finance, Pharma and Sick-care sectors.
And any other black letter law.
In general I favor shrinking tremendously the amount of law, but applying those there are strictly enough to lessen the enforcement burden, and not leaving it to political prosecutors who decide what they will and will not go after. Enforce civil accountability & liability for consequences even when there is no explicit breach of law. Unfavorably disposed to plea bargaining supplanting judicial process.
Breaking the law? SCOTUS said the Admin needs to give deportees more notice, not that the Alien Enemies Act was null and void in Trump’s usage of it. Its a procedural dodge.
Alien Enemies doesn’t refer to brown people, it refers to countries militarily invading.
Here’s to chasing away the bigots among those downvoting you.
No. SCOTUS does not exist to represent The World. They exist to protect the Constitutional freedoms of American Citizens. Now that they have acknowledged who they are – Trump should Check ✔️ mate the abuse of Power. Immigration Judges are NOT a part of the Judicial Branch. They are under the authority of The Executive Branch. In particular, The DOJ. ICE is now also an Immigration Division – Executive Branch. Use some of the now defunct USAID 💲 to hire thousands of Immigration Judges. Use all empty, under utilized Military Bases, – and Government Buildings, to set them up in individual cubicles for ZOOM hearings of Illegals. ZOOM “Virtual Hearings” are already lawful venues for Court Hearings. Illegals can be held in Civil Detention Camps for the duration,while awaiting their Hearing, or they can self deport.
You’re not addressing an important question. Why were millions upon millions of immigrants admitted into the country without rule of law in the first place? By accident? Yeah, no. NGOs working with government, funding, drivers licenses, etc. So what was the plan? Who was planning it? Democrat voters, import your own labor arb, military age males for conscription to fight China, boost the population while at the same time instituting policies to reduce population? All of the above?
Trump is inconsistency incarnate. This was how he was always going to be.
It’s totally disgusting on a personal level to base an economy on (1) luring and exploiting cheap labor, many living like slaves 20 to a house in my neighboring Greeley and slave labor in China. On an academic level, it smacks of the Fall of Rome. The politics always use euphemism while the exploiters rape the innocent.
Sometimes the best thing to do, in politics, is admit the enemy has won this one. The people who believe it is our responsibility to take care of the entire world provided they can get into the country, won. Now just do the best you can with. We’ll be pissing people off for decades trying to get all these people out! We lost, we will most likely have to educate, train, raise, teach, and hire, but we will probably just let them rot and create more rot and anger in America. No plans on how to deal all this, just get them in here. That’s the way democrats and republicans roll! Whatever you want, force it now, and maybe the other side can’t fix it back?
What is so awful about not getting exactly or even close to what you want all the time?
Excellent post, Mike! Those who hammer on “the rule of law” to justify mass deportation of anyone who willfully entered the U.S. illegally without due process are clueless about the law and the very foundation of our Constitution that governs how we treat PEOPLE who are in our country. PEOPLE, not citizens! The same idea of our nation and Constitution is that people are endowed with unalienable rights just by being alive, regardless of any other manmade status assigned to them. When our government distances itself from these ideals, we turn our backs on the American experiment that Jefferson, Washington, Hamilton, Monroe, Franklin, and other founders gave life to so long ago. These founding ideals should be enough to guide our approach to immigration, and if that is not good enough for some, let’s add in basic Christian principles upon which most of the founders relied to guide them when writing the Constitution and Bill of Rights. So, yeah, it is not a silly question to ask, what would Jesus do? So, for all of you hardline, “just round them up and deport them” people, you likely have less of an understanding of what it is to be American and Christian than the very people whom you want to round up.
From the official Ellis Island website, concerning legal immigration:
“The most common reasons for exclusion were a doctor diagnosing an immigrant with a contagious disease that could endanger the public health, or a legal inspector being concerned that an immigrant would likely become a public charge or an illegal contract laborer. “
Boy, have times changed. Biden did the opposite of this on every count.
So if North Korea sent 50,000 troop transports to the USA, each dumping 200 trained North Korean troops (without guns or documentation), you’re telling me that they get to live in the US until due process gets around to deporting them? Do they get in line behind everyone else already waiting in line because we want to be “fair” and “not step on anyone’s toes”? The Supreme court has been packed with the mentally ill at this point, just like Congress. Illegal immigrants have no business being here. The concept of legal immigration is not new, and has been in place since the founding of the country. The only thing that has changed is the people running the government, who have apparently been replaced by an army of Nurse Ratcheds.
“Sensible” is not the aim. Lurid deadlines and pics are the aim. Nothing new there, but just a more brassy version.
A lot of Trump voters are working class people who would stand to benefit greatly if deportations occur, so I don’t think they will mind the “inflation” at all.
Mish pin stops the flow of new comments.
If the US, the EU and China enter a global recession more people would like to come to the US. Deport the illegal criminals Onshore to military camps instead of deporting them globally to third world countries. Option: when May 2025 fantasia will be over SPX might make an A-B-C down to about 4K, to Oct 2023 area, or below ==> hungry people from all over the world will seek shelter in the US
China’s export 20% of its GDP. China export to the US, the EU and to third world countries which are high risk borrowers, subprime borrowers. Since the US and the EU cut export and a few frontier countries out of 180 countries might default China’s GDP will shrink dramatically and slavery will grow from almost one billion people globally to two. It’s either slavery to survive or death. Inflation ???
HK exports 180% of its GDP.
In Singapore, immigrants have contracts allowing them to work for a certain number of years, after which they can request an extension, and if refused, must return to their country. During the contract period, no event (such as marriage or a birth) can entitle them to an extension.
Is there a project that could establish a system comparable to the one in Singapore, which seems to work well?
Singapore’s drug enforcement system also works very well, but it would cause widespread death in the US or Europe.
ICE already short $2 billion as Trump’s immigration crackdown ramps up
https://www.axios.com/2025/03/14/ice-short-2-billion-trump-immigration
In all legitimate refugee stories, you see mostly women, children and old men, entering neighboring safe countries, temporarily. Not in this case.
In the recent years:
i) about 95% of those “refugees” were males, mainly from a specific age group (military age);
ii) they did not flee wars and did not migrate to neighboring countries (in Europe, most would just cross Greece and Italy and end up in welfare countries), with the exception of a few Ukrainians;
iii) the vast majority of them are still unemployed in Northern Europe;
iv) crime increased substantially wherever they went;
v) Europeans countries are outlawing political parties opposing the destruction of their former societies, and opposing 2-tier legal systems;
v) Biden & Co. didn’t just open the floodgates. He dismantled all the protections that were in place, purposefully and decisively (isn’t that treason under US law?). He also flew in a few thousands. This video from the House Homeland Security Committee is quite telling of why they did it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVC_6ouFV9o
You have no laws for what has happened. No laws that can be practically and reasonably applied in a timely manner to address the problem. When Venezuelan gangs took over apartment complexes in Colorado (!) last year, you know it’s out of control.
Maybe borders do not mean anything to upper middle class Americans anymore, who don’t give a shit about society, only care about their investment sheets, and drive through and fly over the “unpleasant areas of the low cost workers”. It ends up quickly to “Isolated little kings in low-trust countries” a.k.a. “Junkyard Kings”.
My problem is the cost of all of this. Now the we are using the military to guard the border, building more detentions center, how about some judges so we can get a process underway. It is just another war although this time it is in our country and will cause the same waste and fraud all the rest of the wars.
Imo it theater. Both parties have been in power and could have fixed immigration. Dont forget compromise at any time. Instead of throwing this on the tax payers. Making it a tax payer problem. Congress should make the fines for hiring illegals stout. From meat packing all the way down to day labor at pick up outside the home depo. Ice should focus on businesses.
These companies could interview on zoom before coming to the us. Immigrants Receive an id at the border. Fingerprint etc. similar to real id.
Rules and regulations for time in county / losing job and such.
Same with asylum seekers. They can apply at a us embassy in a county adjacent to their country of origin. . Us judge can zoom with lawyers and applicant from us.
Ps. If i recall correctly the great president regan nationalized a lot of illegals because of the cost to deal with them.
The late great Charles Krauthammer had, on this topic and many others, a very viable point of view: seal up the borders, make legal immigration the only path to citizenship but keep birthright citizenship with hopes that the progeny of the queue jumpers will appreciate their blessings. If the borders remain controlled as they are now, the problem resolves itself over time.
I’d add arrest and jail AGs, and governors, and judges, and anyone else who obstructs the deportation of criminal aliens. CECOT has plenty of vacancies.
And, btw, many estimates of 18 million illegals were cast before Biden, so smart people like Ann Coulter use the 25-30 million figure. That’s a heck of a lot of mobile taco stands!
Mish. I do not agree with you on a number of things, but on this you are exactly right.
Trumps inconsistent knee jerk actions are creating a lot of damage; to the immigrants, to the economy, and to Trumps image. He needs to get in touch with the upcoming election less than two years away. His dumb actions appear very likely to cost him both the house and the senate. Seems like this sets him up for for the possibility of impeachment if he pushes the limits to cause a constitutional crisis.
“He needs to get in touch with the upcoming election less than two years away.”
The only way Trump cares about this is if he gets to run again.
Most immigrants would likely take the $1000 deportation offer rather than be detained indefinitely, like a Jan 6 protestor. On the same day a person is arrested/detained, they could be given the option to (A) be detained indefinitely *or* (B) self deport right then and there with (1) $1000, (2) a plane ticket anywhere, and (3) the option to apply to return to the US legally once deported. I’m betting that 99% of detainees would choose option (B).. Problem solved.
If a US citizen Jan 6 protestor at an “approved” Washington DC protest gathering is not eligible/deserving of habeus corpus, then why should criminal *illegal* immigrants get/deserve better treatment? The entire treatment of the Jan 6 incident was capricious, with very little real evidence of “rule of law”, and overwhelming evidence of favoritism. No BLM federal property destruction arrests, but peaceful protestors at Jan 6 are a threat to sovereignty? Give me a break.
Storming the capitol building like that, was not peaceful. That’s an insurrection and it was treason. Everyone not lost in an Infowars rabbit hole knows that. Confusing traitors (who did get due process) with immigrants (or people mistaken for one, due to lack of due process) is just silly.
So you’re ok with some J6 prisoners having been held for years with no trial and no bail? Then what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Criminals in this country illegally should be detained with the same level of treatment. You’re acting like breaking and entering is not a crime and as though you believe criminals should have more rights than the victims. Be consistent in your thinking, or admit you’re capricious rather than just.
Regarding crimes against the nation, nothing is more serious than attempting to interfere with the democratic processes of government and the peaceful transfer of power.
Like the CIA publicly waging an information operation on the American People in order to sway the election, or the FBI applying a different set of rules to Clinton and Trump, in order to sway the election, or one of the highest ranking officials at DoJ leaving and going to work for the NYAG to prosecute Trump based on campaign pledges and a fantasy interpretation of law as weapon following the Beria rule, to sway the election. Now go back go sleep.
The Civil War, Shay’s Rebellion, The Whiskey Rebellion, were insurrections. The protest in DC turned into a riot. Many people were literally escorted into the Capitol by police. Trespassing at worst for most. You should stop watching MSNBC or you will continue to be devoured by ignorance.
Is it a measure of how bad the Democrats are that Trump gets elected, and that his economy does better than that of several blue states and blue cities. True story: The city of New York City was unable for years to build an ice-skating rink in Central Park, despite saying repeatedly that they would. One year a local businessman offered to do it. He did it one month earlier than he promised, and for some tens of thousands of dollars less than he promised it would cost. That was Donald Trump. He had gone on to better things.
This touches on a too-little discussed legal problem: ?Is the law enforceable?
With 10-15 million illegal immigrants, it could be that our existing immigration laws are unenforceable. What does that mean for us?
We have seen that laws do not keep illegal drugs out, either.
And how enforceable was the national 55 mph speed limit?
Those are two of the most obvious “?Is the law enforceable?” issues.
“Does America stand for rule of law?”
Damn good question by someone supporting illegal deportation. That’s the great irony.
Trump is breaking the law. PERIOD.
7-2 in the supreme court.
And bigots don’t give a damn.
Biden opened the floodgates.
He shouldn’t have.
And now they are entitled to a hearing, like it or not.
So do we break the law because you and Trump are bigots?
Deport them all. Encourage them to self deport. Prosecute employers hiring them. E Verify and Real ID. Lot of work with millions to deport as estimated numbers probably low balled. Media sob stories about breaking up families to bad so sad.
Dealing with millions and people there will be mistakes. To bad cry me a river. The problem has gotten out of hand after to many years.
Obviously you are an economically illiterate bigot.
Alternatively, you are so bigoted that you don’t care about economics.
Likely close to two million illegal immigrants should not be here, incuding both criminals and those who are drawing federal benefits that are multiples larger than their incomes. How many illegal immigrants don’t earn enough to pull their own weight, and are a net drain for their entire tenure as guests of the USA? Ellis Island would would turn those people away in a heart beat, while Biden insisted they be admitted, based on “their word” (wink wink) that they were in danger without admittance. Biden basically mandated allowing Tren de Aragua, with an open arms policy.
On the one hand “manufacturing will never come back to the US”, on the other hand “we need those illegal workers”. Hmmm…
Construction, agriculture, and the service economy heavily rely upon migrant workers, and no, the manufacturing economy will never come back to the U.S., and this is a good thing.
“As long as we build walls around our cities, we make desperate people who want to come in more resolute to bring them down.”
― Bangambiki Habyarimana, Book of Wisdom
What should he do?
Deporting anybody with a criminal record is a no-brainer.
Deporting all the other millions is indeed impractical. But it need not and should not be an all or nothing proposition with that group.
Deport essentially a huge “random sample” of them. This will give substantial pause to would-be border jumpers next time the idiotic American electorate puts an open borders libtard in the White House. If they fear being shipped back home even many years down the road they will be much less likely to break into the country.
Decriminalize hiring illegals but absolutely no government welfare or benefits of any kind for the illegals. If you show up at an emergency room you do get treated…and then deported.
And no enrolling non-citizen kids in public schools who don’t speak passable English.
I liked all of this, except the “random sample” part. Mish is right that rule of law is important. The problem is that its been waning each and every year, for decades now.
<<This will give substantial pause to would-be border jumpers>>
But not to the NGOs who are taking their money to import them. Caravans ain’t cheap.
I’m not a supporter of illegal immigration of any kind, but I do believe in due process, not matter how much it costs or how long it takes.
When Tyson food plants and Hilton hotels get raided by ICE, I’ll believe it’s more than a dog and pony show.
It’s no coincidence that millions of immigrants have flooded all Western countries because it benefits the elite while keeping the poors down and fighting amongst themselves.
Anyone with a deportation order should be deported.
That is about as clear as one can be, and you are dead right!
Ironically, Marx was against immigration, because it destroys the negotiating power of the working class. Not that Bernie ever read him…
Mish is dodging the real issue.
Does America stand for rule of law?
Labor market?
For legal immigration, the US can pick & choose people with skills & credentials who will benefit the country.
America has gradually devolved into a country of scams & rackets where laws are for suckers and policy serves only to score political and symbolic PR points.
“Does America stand for rule of law?”
Damn good question and the irony in your great question is Trump is breaking the law. PERIOD.
7-2 in the supreme court.
And bigots don’t give a damn.
Webej wrote “Employment of illegals destroys minimum conditions for the American labor market.”
What are those minimum conditions?
That immigrants are willing to work for less than that is evidence that it is possible to live on “less than a living wage”.
And given Green sentiment that American living standards should be lower for the sake of the planet and for solidarity for the rest of the world that lives lower than we do, , , we should be as much interested in what is costing so much in our standard of living. What makes housing so expensive? What makes health so expensive? Etc.
Health & safety conditions that are often unmet in sweat shop type shops. Minimum age. Environmental conditions. Freedom to contract (can’t complain or quit if you’re illegal: might be reported).
Official legal contract stipulating secondary employment benefits and wage.
Since it is a legal contract, will have to meet standards of applicable laws: max hours, breaks, mediation process, overtime, availability, sick leave, separation/severance pay, minimum wage, etc.
Mere unlawful presence in the country is not a crime. It is a violation of federal immigration law to remain in the country without legal authorization, but this violation is punishable by civil penalties, not criminal. Chief among these civil penalties is deportation or removal, where an unlawful resident may be detained and removed from the country. Attempting to enter is also a civil offense, punishable by up to $100 for first offense and $200 for subsequent offenses.
These are the “crimes” we are spending $50b a year minimum chasing.
Trumps first term win – was based on his campaign promises to end illegal immigration and build a wall at Mexicos expense. Funded with tariffs he would allegedly collect.
Trump did not deliver. He had not done his homework and failed miserably.
Blaming others for this and subsequent failures is his nature and trump accepts no responsibility he weak..
One thing trump has accomplished, is alienating our allies and empowering China as a trading reliable partner for other nations. Trump waves in the wind with no tangible results for either immigration or tariff policy.
Where is the wall?
When will the budget be balanced by all of trumps tariff income? NEVER! It is mathematically impossible!
Trump is failing again in full view of he world. Just another blowhard. Incapable of creating cohesive or executable policy and incompetent at managing the economy.
Because of his sixth grader class bully mentality, trump fails at everything besides convincing people to vote for his circus act.
As far as deregulating business – how is trump doing? FAILURE AGAIN!
Trump is mandating/regulating that corporations:
1. Source their materials from high cost suppliers.
2. Move their manufacturing plants and strand billions in investments overseas for others to take over at bargain prices.
3. Recruit, hire and train low skilled laborers for factory jobs in a low unemployment environment.
4. Invest billions on high cost manufacturing plants that take years of planning to build.
Watching trump in action is like watching a train wreck. You know that the result is a disaster, but you watch any way transfixed by the unfolding disaster.
Upvoted you for the lack of a completed border wall during his first term. Trump beats women.
I’m OK with that, I upvote some of your posts as well. Being objective is a good thing. As a man without a party it’s easy to blast these guys, and with their lack of skills and self control, trump and Biden are easy targets.
This guy is a mess: Panicked Trump Orders Walmart to ‘Eat the Tariffs’ After Price Hikeshttps://archive.is/SQAJW#selection-383.0-383.68
Put ICE agents on commission. Pay them per deportation.
Deport trump issue solved.
Again…we didn’t have massive inflation and job shortages during Trump’s first term, before Biden let in 10+ million illegals. So why would deporting them now cause that?
Are you completely out of touch with reality?
During trumps first term:
Millions of illegals and drugs crossed the border. Trump failed to build the wall.Corporations saw their margins evaporate as they absorbed the tariffs.Trump was/is too stupid to know that tariffs are paid by the importer!The stock market plunged 20% initially.Then tens of millions were put out of work because of trumps mis-management of covid.Then trump injected $5 trillion into the economy and triggered inflation as the economy came to a standstill.
Where were you during trumps first disaster?
He’s he is completely out of touch with reality.
Possible reasons.
1: TDS Type 2
2: He is a bigot
3: Combination of the above
It is almost surreal how TDS II types deny the myriad failures of trump and his disregard for the rule of law.
I’m all for deporting violent criminals that are here illegally.
But as with all things, do it within the rule of law!
He should tell them not to park their cars on their front lawns.
It’s a dirty, not-so-secret, fact that red state and blue state alike depend on migrant labor for construction projects, hotels, cooking and cleaning jobs etc.
Mish has confirmed the reason for illegal immigration:
The rich must, and will be served at the lowest possible cost.
Another 15+ million illegal aliens coming right up in 2029 with the current executive powers policies. It’s a one way policy known as IN.
Mish has not talked about net zero (preferably negative known as OUT) illegal aliens going forward.
“The rich must, and will be served at the lowest possible cost.”
You keep posting that but many of the immigrant labor work at places like fast food restaurants: McDonalds, Wendys, Burger King, Jack in the Box, etc. Not entirely places the “rich” hang out and eat at.
If you eat meat (chicken, pork, beef) it was probably cut, packaged and shipped by an immigrant.
If you eat fruits or vegetables, it was probably picked, packed, and driven to your local grocer by an immigrant.
The truth is, everyone benefits from cheaper labor which is why the problem never goes away.
And the response to everyone asking, “we didn’t have this problem before” don’t understand the demographic death spiral happening in America.
Like dumb mules, they keep their blinders on looking only in one limited direction.
MPO45v2 wrote “The truth is, everyone benefits from cheaper labor which is why the problem never goes away.”
With a nod to Cesar Chavez, ?You do know that that is exploiting labor?
One fix for that is mechanical tomato pickers. To the complaint that those tomatoes taste like cardboard, the next fix is growing your own tomatoes.
More than one (organic) food writer has said that we should care about the food we eat, and be willing to pay more for better quality food. That extends to paying more for any labor that cultivates or picks those foods.
Of course it’s exploiting labor, that’s why immigration reform is never done. If ALL people were hired legally they would be entitled to minimum and legal wages, social benefits (like unemployment when they get axed), and legal protections. Think of the cost to businesses big and small if ALL of the labor “bells and whistles” were added on to the cost of everyone. No one wants legal workers because they cost too much money and at the end of the day, it’s all about money. More profits for business owners, lower costs for consumers, and less burden on most of the government.
I will once again refer you to this story in DEEP RED Tennessee. The owner is a big MAGA/Trump supporter yet all of his restaurants had illegals that didn’t show up during ice raids crippling his restaurants. I’m sure if you ask him he’ll say he knew nothing about it but we all know that’s highly suspect. How many stories of meat packing plant raids? How many of farm raids? How many of them all say they didn’t know?
https://www.nashvillescene.com/news/pithinthewind/lower-broadway-ice-sweeps/article_7840f5c5-fba5-447c-bb20-14016fc661aa.html
Yes, it’s all wrong and all broken and has been for 50+ years. This is the system we live in and no one seems to be able to change it. All I do is profit from the structure we have and focus on improving my families quality of life.
The funny thing is my credit card company will call me within minutes of a suspicious transaction on my card but the US government with all it’s glory, cant come up with a system to check if someone is in the country legally or not. Businesses seem helpless as well. Well the technology is there but the will is not so we rinse and repeat every year.
They own stock in those places or own dozens of franchises.
Wrong: I have said at least a dozen times that
1: Open borders and free services are incompatible
2: We should close the border but incorporate an immigration policy based on need.
Your apology is accepted, but make it.
Whatever he does, he will likely capitulate as this appears to be his “modus operandi.”