The EU’s Robin Hood Energy Proposal Caps Profit and Prices, Seeks Solidarity

Image courtesy of Euractiv 

Robin Hood Energy Proposal

European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen blames Russia for being an  “unreliable supplier” then lays out Five Measures to Tackle Energy Crisis.

  1. A mandatory target for reducing electricity consumption during peak hours. Brussels will work closely with EU governments to achieve this, von der Leyen said, with the exact target yet to be decided.
  2. A cap on revenue made by companies producing energy at low costs.
  3. EU countries would use revenues made from this price cap to help vulnerable households and companies cope.
  4. Fossil fuel companies could also be expected to help as oil and gas companies have made “massive profits”, according to von der Leyen. She wants a “solidarity contribution” from fossil fuel companies that would support vulnerable households and go towards investments in clean energy.
  5. A cap on Russian revenues the country has made from selling energy to Europe.

Under this Robin Hood setup, clean energy companies will be forced to give up profits to help consumers and non-clean energy companies are supposed to make a  “solidarity contribution” as well. 

The cap on Russia profits is nonsensical and counterproductive, but nannycrats in the EU and US cannot be bothered with such details.  

Protest in Prague Against Czech Government, EU and NATO

Here’s one from September 3 that you may have missed. High energy costs triggered a Protest in Prague Against Czech Government, EU and NATO.

Organisers of the demonstration from a number of far-right and fringe political groups including the Communist party, said the central European nation should be neutral militarily and ensure direct contracts with gas suppliers, including Russia.

Police estimates put the number of protesters at around 70,000 by mid-afternoon.

“The aim of our demonstration is to demand change, mainly in solving the issue of energy prices, especially electricity and gas, which will destroy our economy this autumn,” event co-organizer Jiri Havel told iDNES.cz news website.

The protest at Wenceslas Square in the city centre was held a day after the government survived a no-confidence vote amid opposition claims of inaction against inflation and energy prices.

The vote showed how Europe’s energy crisis is fuelling political instability as soaring power prices stoke inflation, already at levels unseen in three decades.

Putin Threatens to Abandon Grain Deal, Further Squeeze Energy Supplies

The Wall Street Journal reports Putin Threatens to Abandon Grain Deal, Further Squeeze Energy Supplies

Russian President Vladimir Putin threatened to curtail the export of grain from Ukraine and said Moscow was ready to extend its rationing of natural-gas exports and cut off oil and refined products if the West went ahead with a price-cap plan for Russian crude.

Mr. Putin suggested Russia could pull out of a United Nations-brokered deal that has allowed for the large-scale export of Ukrainian grain, sending global wheat prices up 4% in early Wednesday trading. 

Mr. Putin said Wednesday that Russia had contractual obligations on energy deliveries but would reconsider them if a price cap were imposed.

“We simply will not fulfill [our contracts]. In general, we will not deliver anything if it contradicts our interests,” he told an audience of officials and business leaders. “We will not deliver gas, nor oil, nor coal, nor heating fuel. We will not deliver anything.”

Ukraine Inflation

Solidarity? Not In Poland

In a Paywalled article, the Financial Times reports Poland warns against plans for EU windfall levy on power producers.

EU Countries Split On Von der Leyen’s Energy Crisis Ideas

Politico reports EU Countries Split On Von der Leyen’s Energy Crisis Ideas

The European Commission blindsided member country governments with five ideas for tackling the energy emergency on Wednesday, and reaction by member countries was split, six diplomats told POLITICO.

The most controversial issue is the Russian price cap — largely aimed at punishing the Kremlin financially for the war in Ukraine — with capitals having “very contradictory views,” one EU diplomat said.

Germany has said it is “skeptical” about the idea. Hungary, Russia’s closest EU ally, is against it, as is Slovakia and at least two other countries, diplomats said.

Others, including Poland and Italy, want the Commission to go further and cap the price of all gas imported into the EU.

Hungary also wants any energy package to be unanimously agreed, rather than by emergency procedure with majority voting, as the Commission wants, a diplomat said.

Poland’s call to reform the Emissions Trading System, which it blames for jacking up energy prices, was a non-starter for Luxembourg, Ireland, Germany, Finland and Sweden, said a senior diplomat.

Five Things to Make of This

  1. The EU, Russia, and Ukraine are all hurting badly. 
  2. Putin sounds desperate, but so does Ursula von der Leyen.
  3. The US, whose actions in 2014 facilitated this mess, is relatively unscathed. 
  4. Putin hoped to splinter the EU and succeeded. There is no solidarity or agreement on anything that’s workable. 
  5. This mess is increasingly unstable with no resolution in sight.

The current state of affair cannot last forever. However, there is no political impetus for change at a high enough level that matters. 

For discussion on what needs to happen please see Q&A on Putin and Energy Price Caps, Does Anyone Have a Better Idea?

This post originated at MishTalk.Com.

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Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
It is well past time that a cap was placed on the exorbitant profits Governments of all sorts are making collecting taxes.
Inflation is producing windfall profits for all levels of Government.
These excess profits must be “taxed” and these excess profit taxes returned to the taxpayers.
JRM
JRM
3 years ago
So the ELITE in the EU have decided to go full MARXIST regime???
Billy
Billy
3 years ago
I know this is a little off topic but I’d like to take a poll from everyone here. I’m asking you because I feel this is a great group of people who have a higher understanding of economics and I value your opinion.
Who do you think is more responsible for the recent inflation? Putin or Biden?
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
Depends where. In the US the fault partially Biden’s and in Europe because of energy costs most of it now is Putin’s.
billybobjr
billybobjr
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Well the EU was warned years ago about the moves they were making . They moved anyway the warnings have turned out to be spot on.
It was their move to become dependent on Russia energy sources so I can’t blame Russia for that stupidity
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  billybobjr
Yes the EU and especially the Germans screwed up and decided to pay the price even though by giving in to Putin they could have avoided it but that is water under the bridge now. They decided to eliminate Russian energy from Europe and by God they will do it.
billybobjr
billybobjr
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
You don’t know that . Russia has the raw materials to make their own stuff . You never know about the unintended consequences of actions.
Russia may come out of this actually stronger and more independent than they were going in . I don’t know and neither does anyone else .
It is not just oil and gas it is minerals for the green economy and Russia and China produce a huge chunk of it and the west is dependent
on these people for any serious move to so called green economies and this won’t change in the near future .
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  billybobjr
Why do you think other countries can’t make their own stuff too? Russia as a country does not provide anything that can’t be found or replaced anywhere else. It’s a big world and Russia is a small part of it. Don’t look at a map, look at a globe.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
I do think von der Leyen should set a cap on the number of western Europeans that are allowed to freeze to death this winter.
Steve_R
Steve_R
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
How about The Fed instead, they panicked in March 2020 after covid 19 hit and cut rates to 0% from 1.0%, why did they not cut by quarter point and see what happened. All the money printing, rates at 0%, QE was the cause.
grazzt
grazzt
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
the Fed (QE and 0% interest rates for 10 years) and Congressional spending are the most responsible (we were already at 7% inflation last November, supposedly transitory). As for energy costs, you can lay that at the door of the EU and their sanctions on Russia. Yes, Russia invaded Ukraine but that didn’t cause the rise in energy prices. Somehow Saudi Arabia’s been at war in Yemen since 2015 and energy prices were stable. Imagine if the EU cared about that and put the same sanctions on Saudi Arabia as they have with Russia and what that would have done to energy prices. Meanwhile Russia exports LNG to China at a discount and the EU gets to import US LNG at multiples the cost of Russian CNG.
MPO45
MPO45
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
Is this a trick question? The answer is Nixon when he took the US off the gold standard but if you want a philosophical answer, it is whoever invented the idea of money.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
Some say it was the Italian bankers. Others say it’s a religious cult that was kicked out of countless countries for being frugal and helping folks out with loans. I say it’s that greedy ba$tard across the street with the incessantly barking dog. Whomever it was they’re still doing it.
MPO45
MPO45
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy

Inflation presupposes the establishment of money, which arose as an unanticipated social construct over a period of perhaps 2500 years as a result of a variety of innovations and advancements. It reached its peak with the advent of coinage in Lydia and Ionia around 630 BC, as well as in China around the same time. This indicates that inflation could not be older than money.[14]

Historically, when commodity money was used, periods of inflation and deflation would alternate depending on the condition of the economy. However, when large prolonged infusions of gold or silver into an economy occurred, this could lead to long periods of inflation.

Billy
Billy
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
Sorry I wasn’t clear enough. I’m only referring to the inflation in the USA. Using USD to purchase goods and services within the USA.
I’m also asking between Putin and Biden.
Thanks
MPO45
MPO45
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
Neither Putin nor Biden controls the costs of most goods and services. You could argue that Putin controls *some* of the price of oil but not all of it. In fact, oil has been coming down as recession fears grow and the market forecasts lower usage of oil moving forward.
And which point of inflation are you referring to? Inflation was higher earlier in the year and it is lower now. Which one do you care about? How can either Putin or Biden be blamed for inflation when it has fluctuated greatly over the past 6 months with neither doing much to make it so?
The true cause of inflation is more demand for goods and services and insufficient supply in terms of USD exchanged.
JRM
JRM
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
That is only if you believe the lying MSM/Gov’t agencies…
Go to a Super Market and ask the people shopping if prices have went down???
You will get a resounding “NO”!!!
So stop believing the “PROPAGANDIST” in the MSM/Gov’t!!!!
Diesel is still way above where it was under Trump and Gasoline is still higher than under Trump Admin…
You are believing the “ILLUSIONS” sent by the MSM, not the facts in the street…
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  JRM
You’re saying the price of gasoline wasn’t trumped up?
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
The true cause of inflation is lots and lots of spare money sloshing around everywhere.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
I think COVID is responsible for 90% of it.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
You vote for corrupt dim-witted politicians, you get what you deserve.
billybobjr
billybobjr
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Amen to that
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
And you keep voting for the same Congressfolks that keep spending borrowed money they don’t have.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
Between those two, Biden in the sense that the fiscal craziness cranked up monetary velocity and made inflation worse. But the prime culprit is the central banks.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
I say it was Alexander Hamilton.
He didn’t trust the average Joe and was smarter than everybody else.
Roy
Roy
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
This is similar to the political questionnaires I get in the mail.
The simple answer has to be Biden.
Consumer inflation started taking off as soon as he started his war on fossil fuels.
Of course you have to believe that Biden is actually making any of these decisions. (If he is, then he is a pretty good actor pretending to be suffering from dementia.)
You can see the beginnings of inflation in charts that Mish published a long while back.
Note that while inflation is always a monetary phenomenon, the FED policies kept poring money (inflation) in the stocks/assets (including housing) up until the war on fossil fuels.
The war on fossil fuels created a supply shortage. The underlying excess money was already there and since energy is at the base of everything, we were off to the races. To make things worse, since the inflation fire got going the Biden administration has been adding more fuel (money) to the fire while continuing to squeeze US energy production. This is deliberate on the part of the administration.
The Russia/Ukraine conflict would have little effect on the US economy were we not involved (again Biden admin) and especially if we were not sending billions of unaccountable dollars “to Ukraine.”
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
Depends on where you live.
Here in America, it’s definitely Biden due to money giveaways and nutty green policies restricting fossil fuels.
For Europe, it’s definitely Putin due to energy costs.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
For Europe it’s definitely the EU for paying more than they have to for gas.
It is a choice.
Billy
Billy
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
Thanks to everyone for your responses. Very much appreciated.
I know inflation was/is caused by much more than just 2 individuals. I purposely asked the question in a way that’s similar to the polls we will soon be bombarded with about the upcoming election. While I’m sure it was hard trying to stick between 2 options, I’m overall glad to see that everyone here thinks far beyond that. I hope all of you do the same for most political topics, regardless of where you live, when you get to vote.
I also hope you all encourage others to think outside the box.
Thanks again.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
Why does it matter?
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Billy
Sorry, but it is the US Congress that is spending money they do not have that results in inflation.
I will gladly pay you any amount next Tuesday for a hamburger today.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
The Days of Energy Deregulation Are Over in Europe
As prices soar, Britain has joined other countries in tightening control of gas and electricity markets, reversing years of free-market policies.
Sept. 8, 2022
After decades of promoting a free-market approach to the electricity and natural gas industries, European governments are taking back control of these vital functions. Record-high energy prices, partly the result of Russia’s throttling of gas supplies, are prompting lawmakers to discard economic orthodoxy and undo years of painstaking deregulation.
Britain, perhaps the most market-oriented of the large European countries, is taking one of the biggest steps in this direction. Prime Minister Liz Truss, on her third day in office, on Thursday announced a plan to, in effect, freeze energy bills for two years for consumers and six months for business.
The intervention, with an estimated cost to the government of as much as 150 billion pounds ($172 billion), would prevent household energy bills from rising about 80 percent next month, potentially slowing the country’s double-digit inflation rate. In recent years, Britain has had a regulated price cap on energy for households, but there is growing political consensus that it is not up to dealing with the extremes of current markets where prices for natural gas and electricity have reached several times their norms.
At the same time, the European Union has proposed a cap on Russian gas prices and negotiations with Norway, another large, but friendly, gas supplier. Because natural gas-fired power plants usually set electric power prices, Brussels wants to impose a tax on generators from non-gas sources, like wind and nuclear, whose operating costs are lower, and use the that revenue to help people and companies struggling with energy costs.
….
RonJ
RonJ
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
“After decades of promoting a free-market approach to the electricity and
natural gas industries, European governments are taking back control of
these vital functions.”
Regulation leads to deregulation and vice versa. Globalization is leading to de-globalization. All cycles have two phases. The failure of Western Civilization completes a cycle.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Two phases, sort of a bi-cycle?
Scooot
Scooot
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
It shouldn’t be viewed as a UK shift away from a market economy. It’s an attempt to stabilise the situation and buy some time to put in place a longer term fix. The UK doesn’t actually have an energy/gas shortage, much of it, I understand is bought from Norway on short term variable rates. Those are currently set by the market on a last trade basis and not related to the costs of production. The hope is that longer term fairer fixed rates can be negotiated based more on the cost of production. In addition they’ve removed the current ban on UK shale gas which will hopefully aid supply. Clearly we’re not out of the woods yet but it’s a start and on balance I think it’s a good move.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
If you have a price cap on energy, why would a supplier have excess capacity?
JRM
JRM
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Look what caused the shortage in gas in the 70’s, initially it was the OPEC blockade, but when the US producers moved to increase their supply deliveries, they Gov’t stepped in with GAS price caps!!!
Response by US producers was to slow the amount of gas being produced and sent out!!! The price cap was below what it was costing them to produce and deliver!!!
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
I would not.
I think at least one of my turbines would require shutdown for maintenance.
hmk
hmk
3 years ago
They need to ask Greta what they should do now. Thank god they didn’t migrate to using nuclear energy because that is to cost effective and cleaner that the other bs green energy projects they are pushing down the Europeans throats or up anothe part, take your pick. Thank god the Europeans are such good trusting sheep letting their good shepards lead them off the cliff. When will they wake up and all simultaneously demonstrate against their incompetent corrupt leaders.
Christoball
Christoball
3 years ago
Reply to  hmk
Someones childhood is being stolen by broke parents because of high energy costs. They should be in school now. Instead they are walking along railroad tracks picking up coal that fell off the train; just to stay warm. Hopefully there is enough coal left for Christmas presents for western leaders.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Russian gas just before the cut off accounted for only 6% of Europe’s total gas imports. That is down from 40% so gas from other sources have been found and the tanks are at close to full level. Europe is grabbing as much of Russian oil it can because like with gas it is expected that Russia will cut that off as well. Putin has a tough choice. Cut the oil and let the pipes backup and screw up the wells or keep the oil flowing till Europe has sourced enough elsewhere and then Europe shuts off the pipes and then the oil backs up and screws up the wells. In both instances Russia’s western Siberian well pumping capacity will drop for years.
As for the measures being taken to stabilize the financial markets I do not see why one should cry out in horror and take it as an affront to the Gods of the Market. This is a war situation and if the futures market becomes an impediment to allocating the supply of energy to where it is needed then you can be sure who will win out. Hint, who writes the rulebook? Taxing energy superprofits is the same way. Look at what measures at the beginning of WW II and you will see the same thing being applied now.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
I assume you know the gas tanks don’t supply gas for the whole winter. They are only backup to help smooth the flow. Europe still needs gas all winter because the tanks are not enough on their own.
I don’t get the taxing super profits at all. It’s not like it’s going all to 1 owner like Jeff Bezos. Those profits are going to shareholders. Most of whom probably need that dividend money (or high stock price sale) in order to cover their bills. So instead of just using their dividends or selling stock, now the government needs to inject itself as a middle man and take the dividends from the stock owners and then give it right back to them. How does adding that extra layer make sense? It only puts another layer of bureaucracy on things and makes fraud and graft more likely.
RonJ
RonJ
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
“I don’t get the taxing super profits at all. It’s not like it’s going
all to 1 owner like Jeff Bezos. Those profits are going to shareholders.”
Just a preview of “you will own nothing and be happy.”
Scooot
Scooot
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
The super profits are arising because the whole of the supply is being supplied at prices based at or related to the closing futures/spot price. It’s a bit like the whole of the equity market wanting to sell at the same time and all the trades going through at last nights closing price. I don’t agree with additional taxes on super profits either but the current pricing mechanism for the industry seems to have broken down.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Gas can be and is sourced elsewhere during the winter. Shipping doesn’t stop in winter. Say if smart people or more accurately people with access to superior information see a famine coming and buy up all the harvest before, keep it in storerooms to keep prices rising and then sell it at a much higher price than they bought it in dribs and drabs to keep the price up as people starve. What happens then and will appealing to the sanctity of profit give them the moral high ground and will that type of behavior in an emergency situation be healthful to them personally. I repeat. Who writes the rulebook?
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Your right shipping it doesn’t stop. But if alternatives have been found to make up 100% of the Russian contribution I haven’t heard about it. The reserves are just to make up for the excess demand during winter. For example if Russian pipeline can supply 2 million BTU a day and the EU needs 1 million a day in the summer and 3 a day in the winter then in the summer they have to stockpile an extra 1 million a day so that in the winter they get their 3 million a day. So yes, the reserve is full for the 1 million a day part but they still need 2 million a day from Russia. So they need 2 million a day from other sources to be OK if they get zero from Russia. If they had that lined up already then we would not be reading about special taxes and the need to keep thermostats at 65 degrees etc. So clearly that’s not the case.
As for the special taxes, why just on big oil?
– What about one on some other company in another industry who made record profits (or even a higher percentage of profits-per-share?
– What about on individual stock investors who made record profits (whether it was on oil or crypto or tech or whatever)
In other words why just 1 industry get whacked when plenty of other people made record money or very big money. And why is it always on big oil and never on big tech or some other industry?
Also, lets say oil company X made 20 billion in record profit but also has 20+ billion in long term debt (most oil companies have lots of long term debt). Should they not have the option to pay that off (or down if their profit < total debt) first before paying any special tax?
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Replacing Russian oil in the world would require that world oil production rise by a bit above 5% which is doable given time. Prices are however very supply sensitive so prices will be higher although looking at the markets I wonder if that might be exaggerated. When you talk about individual stock investors then I would have to say that if you never expect that legislation changes would never hurt your investments then you are not judging risk correctly. It happens all the time and in many industries like fast food in California a couple of days ago. As for the last part where you set up a hypothetical situation the only thing I can say is the details are in the domain of your representative and again it is legislation that decides whether they will pay a tax or not.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Liberals and their media minions demonize oil and favor tech. Wanna bet it is not political?
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Anyone can store food for bad times. If smart people didn’t store food for bad times, who would?
Why should smart people be punished?
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Because they are smarter than the stupid people (the fiddling grasshoppers).
Everyone should have a trophy – just because.
ColoradoAccountant
ColoradoAccountant
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
That scenario was in the Bible and a rock opera “Joseph” by Andrew Lloyd Webber.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Doug78, you have to ask? Don’t you remember the Golden Rule?
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
“Gas can be and is sourced elsewhere during the winter.”
At 10x the cost of via a functioning Nord Stream….
There’s still enough seedcorn left to throw on the bonfire in Europe to not straight up freeze to death by the millions come winter. That’s not the issue.
What’s left of European industry, has been aided immensely by reasonably cheap and reliable energy. Local coal, and Russian oil and gas having been important pillars. Take that away, and the huge incremental cost increases has to be made up elsewhere. German salaries at central-republic Chinese levels may do it for awhile. At least for Germany…… But that’s hardly pain free.
A major feature of free markets, is persistent “oversupply” (not really economically, but could look like it from the POV of the less-than-economically literate naifs handed the reigns of The West): Constant churn, as every new overoptimistic entrant gets busy demonstrating what economists call The Winner’s Curse. As is the case in the US shale industry.
When you have such a richness of actors dipping just above or below solvency at any given time, you have many able to profitably come online for every dollar of price increase. Hence price increases are seriously blunted. Overmanaged, rigged, pseudo-“markets” (nonsensically branding them “markets” allow the dunces involved to brand themselves “executives” and “investors” and “analysts” and claim higher salaries and bonuses than Chinese five year planners, you know….), as are seen in European energy, don’t experience those benefits. Instead being hamstrung by what some five year planner “deemed” the “correct” amount of “investment” back then was. Then only the exact resources minimally required to produce what said planner “deemed” to be “needed,” were being allocated. With all the little children cheering for Dear Leader’s wise “long term strategy.”
Of course, with no half-bankrupt also-rans existent, hence noone with mothballed infrastructure ready to quickly ramp up should some asymmetric event provide them the sudden opportunity: Supply becomes inelastic as heck. HUGE price increases become necessary to make up for even a few percent of loss. With the failed planners casting about for mean, scary Russian hobgoblins to blame, no doubt…..
So yes: There is gas on Pluto. Throw enough previously earned seedcorn resources at it, and you can, no doubt, go fetch some. It’s hard to compete with Asia at metal smelting, with the sort of prices required, though. Even more so when 90% of your costs no longer go to people smelting metal and building and selling metal smelting equipment; but rather to the usual yahoo-choir of “investors”, “landlords”, “analysts”, “lobbyists”, “insurers”, “lawyers”, “union leaders” and “feelgood mumbojumboists.” Whereas in freer-market communist Asian countries, those classes of deadweights are only afforded a 30% rake.
billybobjr
billybobjr
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Please define super profits ? Is that the taxes that the government gets off each gallon of gas ? Do Oil and Gas companies
get to have the same margins as lets say Pharmaceutical , Tech companies and so on ? Because last I looked they were not
among the leaders of most valued companies that would be like Microsoft , Apple and others . I would think that super profits
would make these companies market cap super high .
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  billybobjr
Above average gains due to exceptional circumstances and not due to the effort of the actor itself. Price-gouging if you like.
billybobjr
billybobjr
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Oh please price gouging . How about when the oil companies got slaughtered during the pandemic and lost 10s of billions of dollars.
because of what you say “exceptional circumstances” I guess that balances out the so called super profits.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  billybobjr
Come on. Those same companies got lots of monetary support during the pandemic from the governments to keep working so spare me the false outrage. They like getting the bucks from the government in bad times yet want to keep all their super profits when they have a windfall. We are talking about European oil and gas companies here and they are very, very happy being bailed out by the governments and are not complaining about being fleeced so why should you?
billybobjr
billybobjr
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
” Those same companies got lots of monetary support during the pandemic from the governments to keep working”. Well yes
the government shut down large portions of the economies and the government had to subsidize everything because they shut it down or those
businesses would have bankrupted . If they didn’t you would have had a depression . If they don’t bail out the power companies the power
companies will bankrupt and the lights will go out . The bailout they are talking is 1.5 trillion and that is more than the Russian GDP in one year !!
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  billybobjr
Sounds like you are advocating socializing losses and privatizing profits. The 1.5 trillion is a bridge loan till the contracts come due. Remember that futures are a zero-sum game and that all the participants are for this solution because without it they would all be facing financial Götterdämmerung so it will go through.
billybobjr
billybobjr
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Simply put it is a bailout . No i believe we should not socialize losses . The government forced businesses to shut down and
layoff workers so they had little choice to fill the void with fake money replacing earned money that they caused . That is
totally different from a business going under on its own .
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  billybobjr
I don’t think you know how the futures markets operate.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
In other words the exceptionally increased taxes on my real estate?
Or the increased collection of sales taxes at the grocery due to inflation?
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Long term, when you tax winners and subsidize losers, what happens?
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
You always get whining losers.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Putin is not cutting oil. Europe is importing record amounts (ahead of prohibiting all oil imports).
How can Putin cut oil if Europe isn’t buying any?
How can he cut gas deliveries to parties that refuse to pay or contract?
Makes no sense.
The 6% is meaningless … July/August are not gas consumption months, and everywhere energy-intensive industries have halted their activities.
JRM
JRM
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Somebody who is believing the same MSM/Politicians that have been caught in their constant lies!!!
Shutting down manufacturing facilities in Germany, proves they don’t have enough gas/oil/coal…
Tell me how shutting down manufacturing is proof they have enough gas/oil/coal,ect ect???
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Any Russian excess oil production can be fairly easily stored, if it can’t be transported to Asia and sold. As for natgas production, it can be flared – in fact, Gazprom is doing this already for the gas that would have been sent to Europe. This has sent Greta into a decline.
You have to laugh at the sheer incompetence of European leaders. They fail at just so many levels.
MPO45
MPO45
3 years ago
What about the Queen of England? She’s on her deathbed, will the UK plunge into darkness after?
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
Just the thought of King Charles should send markets reeling. Hopefully, the Queen abdicates in favor of…. write in candidate name…
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
Why?
MPO45
MPO45
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Leadership?
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
You are thinking that the Queen of England is like the Russia Czar. She is a figurehead, a very important one for sure, but she doesn’t rule, she reigns.
MPO45
MPO45
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
but she doesn’t rule, she reigns.
She provides hope to people…I doubt the next one does that…
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
She is a hard act to follow but kings and queens have died before and the UK is still there.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Rule and reign mean the same thing. Reign is like Reich and Empire … there’s no subtle hidden depths here.
Scooot
Scooot
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
No, they’d be a seamless transmission and Charles will take up the role with ease. After all he’s had a long time to prepare.
For info she’s The Queen of the United Kingdom and Head of State for the Commonwealth.
MPO45
MPO45
3 years ago
Reply to  Scooot
Is that the title Putin will have when he takes over Europe?
Scooot
Scooot
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
Nice.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
That’s the title he would like to have but never will.
Scooot
Scooot
3 years ago
Reply to  Scooot
transition doh
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
The Queen is dead, long live the king (Charles).
The commonwealth will take a couple of days to mourn her and she will be given a state funeral that’s televised etc.
But nothing significant is going to change.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
King Chuckles!

Not that I care, but isn’t it about time to slim it down? Turn that dang palace into condos.

Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
You mean like renting out the Lincoln bedroom to donors?
JRM
JRM
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
Now that the Dark Prince is taking over, I thank UK is heading into darkness!!!
He has advocated for the mass killing of the earth’s population!!!!
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Putin excels (and delights) at tormenting the west. The net result is we will never know what he is really thinking.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
If you are talking about the West then tormenting an entity that is much larger than you, has an economy 10 times more than yours, a population 6 times yours and military spending well over 14 times yours is probably not a winning proposition no matter how much pleasure Putin gets out of it. If he is counting on the elan of the Russian soldier to make up for it then perhaps he is not thinking clearly.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
My point exactly. Right now, it seems to be working in Russia’s favor. Of course, he’s playing against President Cluster Fudge, so it is hardly a fair match.
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
We know exactly what he thinks. He has explained it very clearly, succinctly & expansively.
Nobody wants to take it literally, too much cognitive dissonance.
Putin takes no joy in tormenting the West: He just can’t wrap his head around what fools they be.
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
3 years ago
Darwin would explain that some folks have it too good for too long.
Natural selection goes into reverse, to select the most stupid. And then the cycle turns again.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
The human version of natural selection selects people capable of surviving in a given environment. The selection of politicians seldom involves intelligence. Instead, other attributes are required–eg. AOC has a facebook presence.
billybobjr
billybobjr
3 years ago
The Russians are coming !! For a nation that has a GDP of about 3% compared to the west they sure do cause
a lot of havoc with their little fraction of the pie . The people living in Russia do have cheap energy much
cheaper than the folks in Europe maybe about 10 times cheaper so they will be warm have food and shelter
along with cheap gas for the autos they drive . Most of the west problems are self inflicted because the
bureaucrats made terrible decisions . They are shutting down smelters and industry in the west because of
soaring energy prices make it impossible to continue . When you are cold and hungry and have no power
or a job climate change will be the least of your worries .
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  billybobjr
Have you looked at car and truck production in Russia since Russia invaded Ukraine? Perhaps you should.
billybobjr
billybobjr
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
No doubt the sanctions are hurting much of their economy but they have energy and produce their own
nickel alloys and other things you need to make things like batteries and so on so we are dependent
on them and China for these things plus car manufactures in Europe are struggling also .
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  billybobjr
Have you looked at the latest trade figures between Russia and China? They show Russia selling more oil and gas to China but China is not selling more goods to Russia and the goods they sell are not what Russia desperately needs now.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Thankfully, Doug78, you know just what Russia desperately need.
We would all be lost without your deep understanding.
Please continue, you are invariably amusing.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
It’s only September. Imagine what it’s going to be like in November and beyond when winter sets in.
Already Russia is disconnecting a bunch of nuclear reactors in Ukraine from the grid. Ukrainians are going to have a VERY cold winter unless the rest of the EU supplies them with excess power. But the EU doesn’t have enough for itself, never mind being able to also supply Ukraine with power.
And no one is even talking about food prices yet. But soon the harvest numbers will come in and expect massive shortfalls in grain which means massive increases in everything that grain goes into (bread, alcohol, pasta, animal feed including pet food and so on).
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
They’ll deny the problems until they become obvious and then say who could have seen it coming?
I think I could live in a 50F house. I would wear several layers of clothes and likely get used to it after a while. Taking showers wouldn’t be fun. Not sure what I would do for food, but I would stock up on nuts and coffee now.
Dutoit
Dutoit
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
One solution for temperature is to live in less space, one room only if necessary. Or to increase the number of inhabitants, come decades (or centuries) behind, 3 generations in the same house.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  Dutoit
Or wear sweaters like I saw Europeans do in winter when I first came over.
Roy
Roy
3 years ago
Reply to  Dutoit
If you can keep it up to 50 degrees F. One of the problems with just bundling up is modern plumbing – especially if any of it is installed in outside walls. If it freezes, you just have more expenses that you cannot afford.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
If you are in California there are plenty of fruits and nuts.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
You seem to be counting on Europe falling apart but what if it doesn’t? What will Putin do then?
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
In the winter months both sides will take a breather war wise due to the bitter cold.
During this time both sides will hope the other capitulates. As Mish said, Russia is hurting too. The problem with quasi-dictatorships is that they tend to go on for a very long time and then collapse suddenly. Democracies on the other hand tend to collapse earlier (protests, then riots, then political ouster) but can also usually count on friends to bolster them in time of need.
It’s quite possible neither side (EU, Russia) capitulates by spring depending on resolve and how bad things get. On the other hand, my guess is the first to capitulate will be Ukraine once Western support ends in the winter months when there will be no excess energy or food to give to Ukraine. At that point there could well be (and to be honest I fully expect) a humanitarian disaster that has the possibility to kill millions of civilians from cold/starvation. Only a madman of a leader would continue if that happens and if Ukraine is a democracy and not a quasi-dictatorship of it’s own, it will have to capitulate.
Matt3
Matt3
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Logic will not prevail. The EU and the US are willing to have Ukraine suffer any consequences. Ukraine is NOT a democracy. No free speech. no free press, no opposition parties allowed. Ukraine is corrupt enough for many to profit from the funds and arms being sent. As a large portion of those profiting are in the EU and US, the war and the death will continue. Those profiting from the war are not going to suffer any consequences – the suffering will only be for Ukraine, Russians and the little people in EU and US.
Jojo
Jojo
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Perhaps it will be a warm winter. Have you checked the Farmers Almanac?
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
“In the winter months both sides will take a breather war wise due to the bitter cold.” Why do you think that? If you can supply your troops winter is a very good time.
So you are counting on protests causing European governments to fall. What if they don’t and Ukraine continues to get extensive support from the West?
Europe is food secure as a continent so I wouldn’t count of starvation.
I repeat. What if Europe doesn’t capitulate to Russian demands?
grazzt
grazzt
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Then Europe will simply need to import its energy resources from more expensive sources as it is doing now until it can transition to self-sufficiency in whatever manner it can manage. Russia will transition to exporting energy resources to ‘friendly’ nations, I’m sure Asia will eventually surpass energy needs that were previously supplied to Europe. In the end, everyone will end up pay a bit more for their fossil fuels around the globe. Europe’s other questions may be where will they get their precious metals and minerals needed for industry as Russia supplies a good portion of those at this time as well. (eg. titanium for Airbus)
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Then Russia will be forced to kill every Ukrainian man of fighting age who is willing to pick up a rifle. It that means millions of deaths, it means millions of deaths.
At some point if the war continues long enough I expect Russia to go the nuclear route. Not Tsar Bomba type weapons on civilian populations but rather smaller tactical nukes that obliterate a few square miles with low long term radiation in order to mass kill Ukrainian forces with next to no loss of Russian troops. If that doesn’t end things, and the west responds with nuclear of their own then we are talking world wide annihilation.
I have zero idea whether the west would respond if Russia uses nukes since it would be their own destruction as well.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
To kill all the Ukrainians they have to conquer it first and they are not doing a very good job to date and probably never will now so when you say kill all the Ukrainians you mean by nuclear means. Let me ask you. Would you want a regime that would resort to widespread nuclear slaughter to prevail and if they do would you think that they would stop at Ukraine? That’s the key question for Europeans; the type of regime the want to live under and Russia is definitely not what they want although you seem ok with it.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
It doesn’t have to be nuclear. It could be biological or chemical (Russia has lots of those weapons too) or they could just start bombing civilian populations ala WWII (ie Dresden) with conventional weapons.
The point is Putin can’t survive politically with a loss. He has to get a positive outcome or he’s done and a guy like Putin doesn’t get to retire gracefully. So Russia effectively has ramp things up until they get that outcome, Putin is deposed internally or the West really intervenes militarily (nuclear exchange). This is why Putin has hinted about nuclear because that’s what’s on the table for him.
You are the one living in Europe (I’m in North America). What are you prepared to live with? Are you willing to risk nuclear annihilation to stop Russian aggression in Ukraine because that’s what it might take. BTW, there is no evidence that the entire EU has to live under Russian regime, none. That’s just a speculative guess. What’s on the table now is just Ukraine. For me here, I could care less about Ukraine and Russia can do what it wants there and if anything else (further aggression) is for another day.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
We lived under that risk during the Cold War. We didn’t give up then and we won’t now. No evidence that Russia will stop at Ukraine? Why wouldn’t they if their blackmail worked? There is no evidence that they would stop either and people here would prefer not to risk it. He has more than hinted at going nuclear. He said it each time a European head visited him. Putin expected submission but it caused the opposite reaction and convinced the leaders that Putin and Russia cannot be allowed to win. Putin wanted a cheap victory but it turned very bad and he keeps doubling down. Maybe Putin wants to go all the way but those under him might not want to die with him.
billybobjr
billybobjr
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
“we are talking world wide annihilation” What exactly is worth that . What are they fighting for that would be worth that ! Do
people really believe the Russian boys want to go to another country and risk their lives ? Do Ukrainians want to fight and die.
The great majority of these people want to live their lives in peace around loved ones and friends and that is people everywhere .
The US is just as bad but this is about power the people don’t want war it is the power hungry leaders .The boys in Russia don’t
want to go to Ukraine and risk their lives and or possibly kill Ukrainians what the hell do they gain . The US boys didn’t want to
go and die and kill in Vietnam . Iraq and so many other places.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
All this for corrupt Ukraine? I wonder what Zelensky has on Biden, the great foreign policy expert?
Webej
Webej
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
The populace will remove the people playing the role of leaders.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
In a battle of winter attrition, when has Russia ever lost?
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Never.
The Russians know winter as well as the Starks do.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
In WW I the revolution began in February 1916 because Russian forces were getting badly beaten The October revolution the following year was just the cherry on top and they had to sign the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk to stop the war. Winter did not save the Russians at all.
Since Russia depends often on winter to save themselves it would be logical for Russian forces withdraw towards Moscow and wait for winter. No one is invading Russia. Russia is doing the invading and expecting to be saved from Ukrainians on their own territory by winter is rather ludicrous.
JRM
JRM
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Ukraine is begging NATO for cold weather gear and are now complaining they have not received any Winterized equipment, including vehicles that are good for cold weather warfare!!!!
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  JRM
Ukraine will get the equipment while Russian soldiers will not because it was all used up last winter.
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Ukraine average winter temperatures are around 26F. I think the Russian military can function just fine a such temperatures.
Russia’s average winter temperature is 18F.
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
The question may well boil down to a molecule shortage. We shall see.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Boiling is common in that part of the World. Especially cabbage and potatoes.
RonJ
RonJ
3 years ago
European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen blames Russia for being an “unreliable supplier”
She does have a sense of humor.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Could be Alzheimer’s, could be early senility. She probably forgot which.
KidHorn
KidHorn
3 years ago
Europe sanctions Russian oil and gas and then claims they’re an unreliable trading partner. So, either they’re lying or they’re clueless. Probably both.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
The unreliable part doesn’t come from the contracts even if that part is dicey also. It comes from the fact that you cannot rely on Russia not to invade your neighbor so by that Russia is unreliable.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
America only invades far-flung countries and doesn’t intimidate its two (count ’em) neighbors. Does that make America reliable?
JackWebb
JackWebb
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
The arrogance is truly over the top.
prumbly
prumbly
3 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
It’s just like the US using sanctions to prevent Russia paying bond coupons and then claiming Russia has defaulted on its debt.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
3 years ago
Reply to  prumbly
Like murdering your parents then demanding sympathy because you are an orphan.

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