The red states have such highly regressive tax systems that only the top 4 or 5 percent gain by moving there. If you are in the bottom 90 to 95 percent and you move to a red state, your overall tax burden (when you take ALL taxes into account, not just income-tax) would actually increase. I have seen a few fools who thought that after they moved, they would eventually get into that top tier but then got stuck and got screwed in whichever red state they went to!
JackWebb
1 year ago
The reason: The $10,000 cap on combined state and local income taxes, property taxes, and sales taxes. The exodus isn’t the rich, but the middle and upper middle class. That cap has no chance of being repealed, and it will be a python around the necks of high-tax states. It’s going to be even farther-reaching than Trump’s Supreme Court appointments. The out-migration will be steady, year after year. I think the blue states are slowing waking up to what’s happening.
If by blue states you mean blue cities, I don’t think they are waking up.
garryl44
1 year ago
As someone who has a 2nd home in Florida I can say owning it had nothing to do with taxes. Florida, in particular, is a hot mess right now, but people continue to move there mainly to escape the cold winter. Taxes may be lower but sales tax, property tax, homeowners insurance, flood insurance are outrageous and far exceed any minimal tax savings. My homeowners insurance went from $2300 a year to $5600 last year. I continue to own the place because my wife and I saved and invested in order to eventually own our beach home and we spend 6 or 7 months a year there. Politics, taxes, etc be damned and had zero factor in purchasing/moving to Florida.
They have been saying that for years, but for years, people have been moving to Texas. Texas used to be a reliably blue state, but as more and more people moved from the north, it has become more and more Red, while states like Illinois, Michigan, and Wisconsin have become more blue.
george m
1 year ago
Excellent data. In 10 years Illinois will be Republican.
Crime induce change. Whole Food closed it’s SF store. The upper middle class escaped. The poor buy properties from the weak hands for
30 cents/dollar. Black and Latino small businessmen, supported by rich woke white people, employ the poor and the homeless to fix their properties. Metamorphosis after George Floyd. Politicians that supported BLM get most votes and stay in power.
New home owners will reduce crime. The defund the police lever lift the poor. New community org will patrol the streets.
Some of this is to be expected, and not entirely due to high taxes. It has long been a trend for people in the northern states to retire in a warmer climate, such as Arizona, Texas, and Florida. As baby boomers retire, obviously some of the ones in the north were going to move south. I suspect that the tax differences are making this trend worse, however. Illinois has special problems of course, with crime and bankrupt pensions, that have to dramatically make things worse.
Billy
1 year ago
Many people are smart enough to realize when the grass is really greener on the other side. Many of those believe in the mainstream media when they are fed the orchestrated lies, so they continue to vote for what ruined their previous state.
So if crime has gotten worse and the law enforcement makes excuses for the criminals, that’s a great indicator that the punishment needs to become greater in order to stop the criminals from wanting to commit the crimes.
For example, if cars have been getting broken into in your neighborhood, and the police blame it on you for leaving valuables in the car, then you need to vote for whoever wants to increase the punishment for crimes. Not the other way around.
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Illinois, New York and California are not really concerned.
They will make up for any losses by raising taxes.
That’s the solution! Another one is that by Chicago law all who work for the city must live in the city to get their paychecks. Let’s then make all Chicagoans municipal workers and raise their taxes as much as needed to balance the city budget. Problem solved.
That will be a doom loop. Just wait. You will see.
RonJ
1 year ago
“Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker shrugged last year after several
high-profile corporations left his state. “Countless companies are
choosing Illinois as their home,” Mr. Pritzker said. Then why does a new
Internal Revenue Service report show an accelerating taxpayer exodus
from Illinois and other high-tax states?”
Because Pritzker is Gaslighting.
shamrock
1 year ago
So if it’s great news for Florida when people from other states move there, why is it horrible when people from other countries come? Shouldn’t they be trying to stop all migration? These outsiders are straining all the resources.
69% who move to Florida are between 25 and 44 years old so that negates your argument. People in their prime are coming to Florida and not principally retirees. In 2022 only 28,000 retirees moved to Florida. Most people when they retire stay where they live.
OK, I see. Some people with very specific high-level skills are very much limited by where they can live as you well know. When the demand is in a certain industry in a certain place you can’t really live where you want so you make the best of it and go on.
I would throw my kids in the tiger exhibit at the Brookfield Zoo every morning before I’d ever let them near a member of the Chicago Teachers Union.
And LMFAO at Sam Zell crying about WFH while he’s losing his @ss in CRE. See CWB Chicago website for what really goes on in the downtown and great north side neighborhoods.
Bam_Man
1 year ago
IMHO, sometime within the next 10 years California will be re-incorporated back into what will be known as Greater Mexico.
Casual_Observer2020
1 year ago
I see no signs of flight in my locale in California. Quite the opposite. A huge influx of residents from other states and from the Bay Area. The influx from other states is from red states and mostly people that think red states have gone crazy. I live in a purple area that might be one of the last few of these remaining across the country.
It’s not really red or blue states. The trend for the past 100 years around the world is to move from rural to urban (city). The only question moving forward is if the trend will reverse especially with remote work becoming more entrenched.
You are moving the goal-posts. Remote work is a different subject entirely. There are not enough remote workers to change an area’s voting patterns . Those moving to Florida and Texas are not remote workers to any measurable degree.
That would be the case in my area. Wealthy retirees who are no threat to the powers that be down here as they don’t have businesses which would draw from the ever expanding labor pool we have.
strongGnu
1 year ago
Red States(how did that ever happen-thank you defunct USA today) and the Real Estate Associations need to put together an ad campaign and put out the message. “Spend more of your earnings and live better” We are looking to make you richer and more successful with better housing, school choice, better business environment and follow the rest of the successful people who already made the choice. Choose RED brought to you be FL, TX, TN and their relators and by the way if you make $200K a year spend, save the extra $20k a year to live here not in your blue state.
What is often left out on these article is the fact that when people leave places like Chicago or New York, the people simply move from one “blue” city to another “blue” city although in a “red” state. In the example of Ken Griffin, he moved from Chicago to Miami. Most of the people leaving California end up in liberal blue Austin, TX.
Also left out is the fact that if enough blue city people leave these blue states they will turn the red states into blue ones.
As for taxes, the state with the lowest taxes is Alaska and not many people are clamoring to move there so the effect of taxation seems negligible. Utah is also a state that taxes social security benefits….ouch.
Red states will become blue states anyway. What do you think all that blue state taxation goes to? Public employees, who are not interested anymore in being nuns and teaching children in Arizona for near-free anymore (Im guessing the cops and firemen are of the same mind). Eventually all those “northern public drains” to southern budgets will become reality down there too. Teacher strikes in AZ and KY … the low cost south will be over soon enough.
Miami voted Red in the last election. The Republican Matt Gaetz won 67.87% of the votes so Griffin moved from Blue to Red. For Florida the fear that the new people moving down would vote Democrat turned out to be false. The new ones voted Republican by a large margin.
In the meantime the Chicagoans recently voted in as mayor someone who is even more to the Left as the old one. The smart ones left the city leaving the dumb ones behind to vote for the dumbest politicians.
Florida is probably the exception as more and more boomers move there, it will turn deep red until it implodes. Personally, I love the idea of all boomers moving to Florida as it reduces their influence in other states so younger people can rule.
Younger people could rule now if they’d just get out and vote. There are as many 20 somethings as there are boomers. The problem is they aren’t voting in the same numbers as older people.
Florida won’t implode. It’s doing very well actually. Most Red states are doing quite well which is why so many people are moving there because their economies are strong.
You need to think 4-dimensionally. With top heavy boomers the death rate is the highest in the nation. The immigration population is making up the losses and internal migration fills some of the gap.
Florida celebrated 210,305 births, but also suffered 255,553 deaths, based on the Census Bureau data. The natural population decrease of 45,248 was the biggest decline in the country.
And can’t even deliver the free stuff. Even the Black population of Chicago has dropped over ten percent in the last ten years. Those who can leave leave.
“Also left out is the fact that if enough blue city people leave these blue states they will turn the red states into blue ones.”
Perhaps. One other possibility is that blue state people might finally meet people other than political clones of themselves. They may discover that there are intelligent, well-informed and well-intentioned people who completely disagree with their political worldview. And broaden their political outlooks accordingly.
And your conclusion that the impact of taxation on moving states is negligible is based on… one state? Alaska? Is that all your evidence?
If taxation were the core issue causing people to move then everyone would be fleeing from New York to Alaska. That’s not happening is it? You can cross reference this list with Census demographic and migrations and you will find no correlation.
You didn’t answer the question. Why don’t we look at actual surveys of movers’ motivations, not your assertion that your conjectured motivation is the only way the movers would decide. Here’s a survey that shows taxation as #2 reason for blue>red movers among Republicans and #4 reason among Democrats. Reason #1 is “cost of living”. Might high taxation also have an impact on general cost of living? So it appears, from the horses’ mouths, that taxation is a very important motivator of people’s moves, perhaps the most important, but certainly top 2 or 3. (Can we agree on that, at least?) If you want to ignore that Alaska, is distant, mostly undeveloped, away from the contiguous US, cold and has low population, then be my guest. But it strikes me that you are contorting your logic to avoid an obvious conclusion. link to axios.com
jivefive98
1 year ago
Be sure to include future pieces about the surging costs than follow big population moves to wonderful places like Florida etc. which is slowly going under water and the funny way their water tastes. I was hoping by now seeing more news articles about how much Ken Griffin and his predatory hedge fund employees are loving their move from Chicago to Miami and the increased costs they found from rising rents to finding no affordable house insurance (hurricanes, you know.) 🙂 Meanwhile, as I move to retirement, Illinois wont tax my retirement income anymore. Yay! 🙂
I live in Florida, and I really disagree with most of what you say about it. It does suck, but it’s not sinking. Other than the sinkholes which have been here for thousands of years. And predatory hedge funds sounds a bit Marxist to me. Marxists never understood economics. Which is one of the many reasons why starvation always accompanies its rule. I would also say that we are not benefiting as much as it sounds. Just more loud mouth yankees with their liberal policies to try and make us as vile of a place that they left.
Having said all that, Florida has its own pitfalls. Its government is just as corrupt as New York’s, just done differently. DeSantis just showed his contempt for the 1st Amendment with his signing of the anti-semitism bill. Because one cannot criticize Jewish people. I have nothing against Jewish people, though I despise the government of Israel as much as I despise any other government. However, hate speech is still sacred. In effect, it’s now illegal to say things like “it’s okay to be white”, give the ok hand symbol, etc. I’m not kidding either; the ADL, who financed the original US Nazi party, has stated this repeatedly. I bring this up because of its similarities to Marxist policies. Which will actually harm Jewish people more in the long term. Klown world sucks. Why can’t we all get along? Because people choose ignorance.
Um, Jewish Florida (and ex-NY) Republican here. The canard that all those northerners moving in are bringing their blue voting habits with them is just that–a canard.
Republican voter registration in Florida surpassed that of the Dems for the first time ever at the end of 2021, and the gap has widened even further since then, to over 541,000 as of last report from the Florida Secretary of State’s Election Division. What you say may be true in other states, but it sure doesn’t look that way here. Even in Texas, polls showed that Ted Cruz performed better among newcomers than among Texas natives. We’re going through a Great Sort, and just starting.
Just read the headline of a free newspaper I got to absorb my foot odor in my shoes. The best use for most of them. DeSantis just signed legislation allowing jurors to kill people with just 8 yeas, instead of a unanimous vote. “Activist” jurors, those that don’t wipe their rear with the constitution were to be unempowered. If you understand the level of corruption in our very criminal justice system, this would frighten you. And he’s a top candidate for the grand poobah. I know, the retards on the right will say the left is no better, but that’s just how retards think.
Thanks for proving my point. Activism is double speak for holding authority accountable to the constitution. Retards don’t understand the concept of corruption. They just hear what the state tells them and believes them according to their party lines. Thugs like you are why we’re a declining power. I see why I had hit ignore on you before. No benefit in hearing ignorance. You obviously flunked ethics. And the IQ test.
California is the exception, but the other states have horrible climates and crowded old cities. Why would anyone who could afford to, not leave those states for somewhere with a better climate with less dense and newer cities?
One consideration though, Florida is gaining 400k people a year. So that’s the people and their cars and their houses and the roads and extra malls etc.. that’s a lot of tons per sq/mile per year. I’d avoid a water front block. Utah is probably safe.
Depends on where you are thinking of moving to in Florida. South Florida where I live is indeed getting crowded and so is the Tampa-Orlando region in the West. But northern Florida is not (north of Orlando) if your looking to retire.
Palm Beach County is really getting filled up. They are building entire cities toward Okeechobee Lake now. Florida still has lots of room and could easily take another 10 million inhabitants upstate.
I’m not really sure why you worry about the weight per square mile. Mountains weigh a lot and by your reasoning they would sink the rocky mountain states into some great abyss.
The only land I know that floats on water are the Islamic in the okeefenoke swamp in Georgia. The name means”the land of the trembling earth”. You can’t walk on them anymore, but it’s very unsettling to do so. Florida land isn’t floating. It’s limestone, which means sinkholes abound, but it’s not going to sink from our weight. The sinkholes are caused by the rain. And the limestone makes an excellent water filter. It’s what the cities do to the water that might make the water bad.
Would like to correct my statement. The limestone in florida is very porous. I can go to the suwanee river here and watch the water seep out of it into the river. Like a water filter. I do know of another area that is more hollow. Saudi Arabia. Those aquifers are mostly empty. When you walk on them they make a thumping sound. We used to tick people off by stomping our feet when going out or coming back from guard duty. It was that loud. Florida will eventually return to the depths of hell from which she came, but it will take a few hundred thousand years at a minimum. And nothing we build will have any real effect. Our biggest problem is water availability. Mostly because of the state mismanagement. Which is double speak for corruption.
high-profile corporations left his state. “Countless companies are
choosing Illinois as their home,” Mr. Pritzker said. Then why does a new
Internal Revenue Service report show an accelerating taxpayer exodus
from Illinois and other high-tax states?”
Um, Jewish Florida (and ex-NY) Republican here. The canard that all those northerners moving in are bringing their blue voting habits with them is just that–a canard.
Republican voter registration in Florida surpassed that of the Dems for the first time ever at the end of 2021, and the gap has widened even further since then, to over 541,000 as of last report from the Florida Secretary of State’s Election Division. What you say may be true in other states, but it sure doesn’t look that way here. Even in Texas, polls showed that Ted Cruz performed better among newcomers than among Texas natives. We’re going through a Great Sort, and just starting.