Here’s another shoot yourself in the foot tariff move by Trump.
93.5 Percent Tariff on Graphite
CNN reports Chinese graphite is crucial to electric car batteries. Trump just put a 93.5% tariff on it
The Commerce Department announced a 93.5% tariff on Chinese graphite Thursday, accusing the country of “dumping” the raw material in the United States below the market price. The decision was hailed by domestic graphite producers, who say Chinese producers dominate the market and keep American companies from getting off the ground.
Raw graphite is relatively cheap, costing less than $2 per pound. Chinese imports to the United States more than doubled over two years, hitting $347 million in 2023, according to the most recent Commerce Department data available. But domestic producers haven’t been making graphite of the purity needed to build EV batteries, according to testimony from Tesla during the investigation into the tariffs.
The move not only is an escalation of trade tensions between the United States and China, but another blow to American EV production.
The Trump administration is slashing federal support for electric vehicles. The administration is looking to eliminate or recall federal government loans used to help fund construction of EV factories and battery plants, and the spending and tax bill passed earlier this month that Trump signed into law will eliminate a $7,500 tax credit for EV buyers.
The Biden administration imposed a 25% tariff on graphite last year and started the process that led to the 93.5% tariff announced Thursday. On top of the other duties the Trump administration has imposed on China, Chinese graphite could face tariffs of about 160%.
However, the US industry does not currently produce enough graphite to fill demand. Until it does, American EV battery makers will just have to pay a higher price for the graphite it needs from China.
Numerous auto and EV battery makers did not respond to CNN’s request for comment. But during the hearing process on the potential tariff increase, attorneys for the automakers argued that US producers do not make the high-quality graphite needed for EV batteries.
“Lithium-ion battery producers demand (graphite) with a 99.9 percent carbon purity level, meaning extremely low metallic impurities,” said Matt Nicely, an attorney for Tesla at a hearing in early January. “Not a single US producer is able to produce (graphite) to these exacting specifications. (Domestic producers) cannot blame imports ….when they are not yet able to produce the product the market demands.”
Critical Mineral Assessment
The lead chart from Statista makes a case that graphite is a critical mineral and the US is overly dependent on China.
US and Canada Resources
United States:
- No current production:The US has not mined graphite since the mid-20th century.
- Import reliance:The US relies entirely on imports to meet its graphite needs, primarily from China, Mexico, Canada, and other countries, according to the U.S. Geological Survey.
- Graphite deposits:Graphite deposits do exist in the US, including the Graphite Creek deposit in Alaska, which has substantial resources.
- Exploration:There is renewed interest and exploration for graphite in the US, with projects in Alaska and Alabama, among others.
Canada:
- Significant producer:Canada is a major graphite producer and ranks among the top 10 globally.
- One operating mine:Northern Graphite’s Lac des Iles mine in Quebec is the only operating graphite mine in North America.
- Production capacity:Northern Graphite is working to increase its production capacity at the Lac des Iles mine and has plans for another project in Ontario.
- Graphite resources:Graphite is found primarily in the Grenville Province of Eastern Ontario and in Quebec.
- Government support:Both the US and Canadian governments are taking steps to bolster graphite production and supply chains for electric vehicle batteries.
Shoot Yourself in the Foot Approach
Producing graphite of the required purity will take many years. Meanwhile, Trump’s tariffs punish users of graphite, simply for needing the material.
Making everyone pay more graphite raises costs. And it will do so for years, perhaps a decade or longer.
If instead of tariffs, the administration provided subsidies to get production up in the US, and make an agreement with Canada (and other allies) to buy all of their production, we would be much better off than the Trump approach.
National Security Concerns
Strategically we cannot be beholden to China for rare earth minerals, graphite, magnets, etc.
My answer 10 years ago would have been different than it is today.
I had for years said no subsidies or tariffs no matter what anyone else does. I have changed my time as of a few years ago. I no longer object to subsidies in cases of genuine national security risk.
Steel, copper, and aluminum are not national security threats. Numerous allies produce enough base metals and there is enough competition and supply to eliminate strategic concerns.
The Correct Approach
Tariffs punish manufacturing users and consumers, always, strategic and nonstrategic alike.
But careful subsidies to get production up in the US, and deals with allies don’t. We should be fostering better relationships with allies.
Instead, Trump treats Canada and Mexico like dirt. He makes no distinction between friend and foe, and is clueless at fostering genuine cooperation between allies.
Related Posts
February 11, 2025: Trump’s Steel Tariffs Now Will Work as Good as the First Time
Q: How’s that? A: Very poorly.
May 31, 2025: Trump Will Double Steel and Aluminum Tariffs to 50 Percent
Tariff madness continues.
August 1, 2025: Payroll Disaster, Jobs Rise 73,000 but Massive Negative Revisions
Monthly Revisions
- The change in total nonfarm payroll employment for May was revised down by 125,000, from +144,000 to +19,000
- The change for June was revised down by 133,000, from +147,000 to +14,000.
- With these revisions, employment in May and June combined is 258,000 lower than previously reported.
Tariff madness is finally starting to show up in the data. Expect conditions to get worse, much worse.
But don’t worry, Trump Will Shoot the BLS Messenger and blame Powell for his mistakes.
Lets be clear about this:
Graphite and cobalt are not needed in the next generation of EV batteries.
Solid State Batteries are now well developed and being produced in commercial volumes economically. It is now only a ramp up process to get production volumes sufficient to power our vehicular fleet.
VW is way ahead but others are close ben=hind in licensing the technology.
Let’s see what Ford announces on Monday the 11th of August…
Toldya Trump is a Chinese agent working for China.
I bet Panasonics new, monstrous battery mfg facility in Kansas is going to love this. Along with ev mandates being undone. Not to mention plans to tap into the large hispanic population in surrounding areas is now uncertain.
Easy answer: STOP producing EV’s.
Drill baby drill extract oil from a new oilfields bc the sun and the wind aren’t good enough. If an onshore co, protected by tariffs, is gushing with money ==> the competition will move in, cannibalizing each other.
Lol! That’s not happening. Drilling rig counts have dropped from 586 to 539 in the last year.
Oil rigs have dropped from 450 to 410. Gas rigs from 136 to 129.
We need 440 active oil rigs to maintain production. Anything less and production will begin to decline within a year.
U don’t know what’s going on and I am not going to update u.
Ok. I’m good with that.
Read the EIA’s weekly drilling report contained in this link!
Rig counts in the US have fallen 14 weeks in a row and I am going to update you and any reader that wants to check who is correct!
Natural Gas Weekly Update
Keep in mind that the laterals of the wells are increasing which increases the production per well.
Keep in mind that the Permian Basin is reaching peak production this year and the fall is expected to be precipitous…
I have heard that for the last 15 years.
Is it possible that $60/barrel oil is the reason for reduced drilling? A depression brought on by tariffs will certainly lower oil prices.
Our “Village Idiot” does not read the EIA weekly reports:
Natural Gas Weekly Update
Clearly shows that rig counts in the US are falling 14 weeks in a row. PapaDave has it right…
The tariffs will encourage US production. However, if the US could make a profit at current prices, it would step up to the plate. Be assured that when US production starts, it won’t be anywhere near market prices and will be supported by ongoing tariffs.
Of course the Chinese will be happily paying these tariffs even though they no longer sell in the US – thus proving Trump and Doug78 were right all along.
If they come, there will be no tariff. If the don’t they will pay tariffs. If they cheat,
tariffs will jump.
Trumps war against America has triggered the gold market above $3,400 again as the world can see that the US is led by a perverted and petty tyrant.
Trade is quickly shifting to more stable nations as a result of Trumps tariff tantrums and his inability to make or keep a deal.
Corn futures have fallen to $410 or 17% over the last 6 months ~ since Trump started offending every trading partner on earth. Farm export prices are crashing as markets are closing to US products. Brazil, Argentina, Australia and Russia are filling the agricultural needs of the world while American farmers are left with silos of unprofitable grains.
And it is only going to get worse as American products are shunned by the world.
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Here’s something I am not hearing reported on in the MSM:
The globalization era started with Jimmy Carter. In 1982 SPX was 100pts. Sixty years later, the obese SPX reached 6,500. Before we get cancer or heart attack Trump decided to change our diet: we will make what is essential to our health in our own kitchen. Initially, it might cost more, make mistakes, but in the long run it will be cheaper and healthier. We will not be served by other nations as before and bitch around on the cell phones. The good old days, of being served and doing nothing all day, are over. The zoomers like it. The boomers and the “libertarians” hate it, (not Daniel Lacalle)
You’ll be dead by the time any of these changes really improve the USA
Are you an American looking to buy a used camera from overseas? Do it quick.
https://www.dpreview.com/news/8383296180/us-tariffs-de-minimus-exemption-ending
Who cares? Trump is flailing his flaccid arms at the batteries of the past
Graphite is for antique Lithium Ion batteries that are being replaced by solid state batteries that have no graphite or anode. Trump may want to set back EV’s on behalf of the the Saudi and Qatar Oil Industry (think free 747) but the cat’s out of the bag on the new solid state battery technology.
Ford motor company has a major announcement coming out on the 11th of August with a line of game changing EV’s.
Screw Trump and his idiotic tariffs.
Now, about those Epstein files? Where are they, and why is congress conspiring with Trump to hide them?
Sad attempt to distract us…
I have it on good authority God Emperor Trump’s next 6d chess move is to embargo China entirely while pulling our military away from VERY UNFAIR and PROBABLY COMMUNIST Taiwan. This will bring China to its knees by BURDENING them with the WEIGHT of Taiwan and its HUGE chip industry.
MAGA!!!!!!!!!1!1!!!!
High time for the rest of the world to boycott trade with the US. Take the pain for a while.
Other countries are already working hard to increase trade with each other. The UK just signed very comprehensive trade agreements with India and Australia. Nothing at all like the little “deal” on a single sheet of toilet paper with Trump, that he will eventually flush when he has another childish tantrum.
The EU has signed recent comprehensive trade agreements with Mexico, Chile, Singapore, and Kenya. They are close to comprehensive deals with India, New Zealand, Indonesia, Malaysia, and the Philippines.
Canada with Armenia, Barbados, Benin. They are close to an agreement with AESEAN.
And many more.
It’s not that they don’t want to trade with the US anymore. They do. But they simply recognize that we are no longer a stable or reliable trading partner as long as Trump (who keeps changing his position and will never keep his word) is President. So Trump is forcing them into each other’s arms. So they will increase trade with each other, to their mutual benefit, while Trump reduces US trade with everyone.
They are all working on it but under radar. No one wants to be in limelight doing it because they don’t want Trump’s wrath.
This is the worst self sabotage that Trump is committing on behalf of the US. The only saving grace for him is that these things take a long time to implement. So most of the really large effects will be felt by the US after Trump’s term is over. The terrible thing for the US is that it will be almost impossible to reverse what other countries will have done by then.
The US electorate will reap what it voted for. We don’t have the institutions that can slow down or stop this self immolation of the country. When it came down to it, none of the institutions held their ground. In the end, people voted for this and they will likely regret it deeply but won’t be able to do anything about it and suffer the consequences.
Tariffs are good for the US, bad for trades. Chinese export restrictions are bad. Graphite are used in nukes and ev. We import from China 42%, Mexico, Madagascar, Canada and Brazil. We produce 260,000 metric tons of synthetic graphite. We buy some from China and export some. Amsted Graphite and X Energy are the largest producers, providing graphite to essential defense industry and for the energy sector. China restricted export to increase price. The US graphite industry is still small, so ev batteries will cost more. Demand for ev is down. Range, a smaller battery, will fall. CNN: stupid, ignorant, bs idiotic.
How are 50% tariffs on steel, aluminum, and copper good for US companies that MUST import these products, until such time that the US can produce these products in sufficient quantities (at reasonable prices) in order to meet domestic demand (perhaps in a decade if we are optimistic)?
Tariffs are good for the US bad for commodities traders: Dr copper, steel and aluminum prices are sharply down.
That was not an answer to my question. Let’s try again.
How are 50% tariffs on steel, aluminum, and copper good for US companies that MUST import these products, until such time that the US can produce these products in sufficient quantities (at reasonable prices) in order to meet domestic demand (perhaps in a decade if we are optimistic)?
But we can’t. We don’t have a decade. What do you suggest we build in the meantime ? Supposedly Oregon has a bazillion tons of lithium. How about a bit of black market trading? This process saved many lives during WW2. Who needs trump. ??? We have plenty of billionaires who are entrepreneurs and capitalists who can trade a tit for a tat. Las Vegas on an international level. It’s just like playing marbles on the school grounds during recess in the 3rd grade. Plus…maybe we have a “steelie “. To play. Think outside the box 📦
Who says there is a rule book 📕? America 🇺🇸 is the greatest country on earth. 🌍. Wake up. Capitalists. Wake up. Barter!!! “I’ll trade my 2 steelies for 5 of your 1.25 in marbles. Who needs Powell? Who needs Trump ??
Entrepreneurialism has saved the world for 2 million years. C’mon!!! Let’s wake up and build a new way to overcome government
“We don’t have a decade.”
Too bad. Because it will take more than a decade to dramatically increase production of raw materials like steel, aluminum, copper, graphite, rare earths etc. You’re dreaming if you think otherwise.
Not to mention the energy needed to produce it all. A single aluminum smelter needs more electricity than the city of Boston. And we need a dozen of them. Nuclear plants would be great for this. But it takes 15 years to build one, and we have zero planned. Too many folks think that we can snap our fingers and production will appear. That’s fantasy.
Putting tariffs on the raw materials that our manufacturers have to import might increase US production of those raw materials near the end of the next decade, but in the meantime it will make our manufacturing sector that needs these materials even less competitive. It’s a self defeating policy.
The best way to get more US production of raw materials is with incentives for US production. The incentives can take any form that works such as price guarantees to producers, low interest loans, tax breaks , subsidies etc. I don’t really care.
While we are waiting many years for these incentives to increase domestic production of raw materials, we should be importing as many of those raw materials we need and building up strategic stockpiles of them, as a buffer against possible supply disruptions.
But we are doing the opposite. We are putting tariffs on these needed materials. Which penalizes our manufacturers that need these materials. And makes them too expensive to stockpile.
I respect your position. But how many of you have survived the Nazi onslaught? How many of you have survived the Red onslaught? How many of you have experienced your mother sneaking into St Wecheslaus square to barter for a goose? How many of you had a father who fought in the Underground against the Nazis and the Red armies? How many of you escaped to the neutral zone and lived in a displaced persons camp so you could be vetted by agencies so that you could be authorized to be transported to the USA? To land in New Orleans and be welcomed by your sponsor and then pay for your train ticket to bum-f—-Conway Arkansas to have your father a graduate of mathematics and accounting shovel turkey and pig shit from some shithole farm. …..
Most of you don’t know how to survive.
Most of you would perish because you are weak…too used to sugar. Coke. How long could you last with an empty belly???
How many of you have visited Auschwitz? How many of you have lived with a grand parent who survived a concentration camp?
You think Trump is an imbecile.
You think Obama told you the truth.
You think Biden was great.
You think Ms Clinton is a saint
You don’t know your history
Do I advocate barter? Yes
Are these little hiccups just that? Hiccups.
Just you wait if the social democrats actually get traction.
Then you can actually worry about you so called life.
All this is just kabuki theatre.
Popcorn
You have no idea what is coming for us.
Wake up!!!
I have been to Auschwitz. I know and have known people who were in concentration camps.
I realize that it was good fortune that my grandfather lost everything he had (stolen by authorities) and was forced to come to the US penniless as a young man at the turn of last century. It allowed me to be born here and create a wonderful life in this land of opportunity. No regrets.
Regarding “end of times” doomers with underground bunkers and 10 years of supplies. Good luck to you.
Wait, you’re thinking potus is going to save us all?
Asking for clarity from your comment.
How in the world did you ever come up with that comment? When in the last
70 years has any potus saved us. ?t
Papa dave far more reaching than just production. Expect auto insurance to go up again.
Higher prices for cars. Higher insurance rates. Win-win. Lol!
Seems a little irked about Elon calling him a pedo.
The graph is awesome. It perfectly encapsulates one of many examples of why something has to be done about China. We can argue all day long about how. That’s fine.
Great work, Mish! Love it!
MAGA!
You keep harping about China. But Trump is targeting all countries with tariffs.
We get 41% of our imported aluminum from Canada. Just 9% from China, 7% from Mexico, 6% from UAE, and 3% from India.
Steel imports: 16% from Canada, 13% from Brazil, 10% from South Korea, 10% from Mexico.
Copper imports: 51% from Chile, 31% from Canada, 7% Mexico, 5% Peru
Potash imports: 80% from Canada
Heavy oil imports: Canada 4-5 mbpd, Mexico 0.4 mbpd, Columbia 0.3 mbpd, Venezuela 0.3 mbpd, Ecuador 0.2 mbpd
Lumber imports: Canada 41%, China 9%, Brazil 7%, Chile 5%, Vietnam 5%
It’s not just about China. We are pissing off countries we used to be friends with and at the same time, hurting US companies that need to import these items from these and other countries. It’s stupid.
I’ve already said that he’s overplaying his hand with CA.
Most of those other countries are not strategic partners except maybe Chile for copper.
And, I would completely disagree. It’s completely about China in terms of strategic goods, & it’s completely about MX regarding drugs & illegals.
At this point, CA is about the only major industrialized nation with any sort of importance to US national security that matters.
And like I said previously, you or Trump will be shown to be brilliant.
The jury is still out. Who knows, maybe it, somehow, will be both you.
Papa Dave. This is just kabuki theater.
People are not looking far enough into the future.
These small issues are red herrings
Speed bumps
Think forward.
You all spend too much time on the next two or four steps. Push your thinking forward ten steps.
It is not about tomorrow. Think forward ten years. Please.
I DO look to the future. 10-20 years. Particularly in regard to energy. Energy IS life. It dictates living standards and economic growth.
I would be interested in your view 10-20 years into the future.
Like Mish and me, you shouldn’t have had children.
We knew where this was going 40 plus years ago and decided not have our progeny have to deal with this.
Old enough to check out now.
Fortunate that we had a moment of the American dream.
Tried to warn the ones we loved.
Good luck bunker boy.
If you want to see the future, go study the past. There’s a cycle and it doesn’t matter where you are in it, the cycle is unstoppable because it is under political control.
Tariffs will bring production back but not at the price you used to pay. Costs therefore increase and your whole economy becomes internationally uncompetitive and declines. Just part of the cycle and you can’t change it.
Political control is just another name for human greed.
Just wondering if this has anything to do with his beef with Musk
simple explanatory: What are rare earths and why are they so important?Here’s your guide to rare earth elements, including what they are, where they’re found, and what properties make them so valuable for manufacturing applications
https://qz.com/rare-earth-minerals-what-are-they-guide
So let’s play this scenario out logically. The costs to manufacture and consume sky rocket over the next 3 years. The American people scream (remember all the Biden inflation whining?) and vote out Trump and GOP. Dems get in and will be forced to repeal all the crap Trump has done and everything goes back to square one.
So what was achieved during Trump’s presidency aside from growing the debt another $10 trillion? (And I’m being generous in assuming TACO hasn’t started a global depression or world war 3 because the courts have had enough).
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/07/31/trump-tariff-arguments-appeals-court-00486972
Got exit strategy?
One of the most tragic outcome of the return of Democrats in power will be the return of wokism and full and final implementation of DEI all over the place. This will lead to a real civil war, as systemic discrimination against W people wont be tolerated (although it is in Canada, the wokest country on Earth…go figure…). It will be all Trump’s fault, as he has betrayed the cause.
By 2030 there will be 80 million (mostly W) geezers grazing on medicare and social security. If there is a civil war, they will be instantly broke as 64% of seniors primary source of income will be SS. It’ll be fun to watch the seniors load up on tactical gear – don’t forget the Depends!
But you’re right, the dems will go full woke on steroids as payback. It’ll be funny to watch from afar.
Bring back Fauchi, Wallensky & Birks to kill off the rest of them, if not, the mobs like in Cincinnati will do, city by city.
Brother, I don’t think you are as safe as you think.
I’ve been looking for the perfect place to escape the worst.
Every single place has locals commenting on Americans blowing up their economies with their deep pockets. Resentment squared…
I’ve lived in Hawaii forty-five years from orange county California and can tell you I’ve only scratched the surface of inclusion here.
Consider yourself warned, wherever you bug out to the locals born and bred have you on the menu come a crisis.
Good luck.
Having visited a few countries and checked others, I have drawn the same conclusion. Wherever you go, major lifestyle compromises are necessary; can you live with them? At my age and so far (in Canada) I can’t. However, it’s early days in this part of the cycle and tomorrow is a new day. Maybe I’ll see you there (wherever that is).
Meal team six isnt starting any civil war. Mom wouldn’t bring them chicken tenders in the basement anymore if they did.
Graphite of this purity is also great for stage one of do-it-yourself manufacture of plutonium.
Like copper Trump put high tariffs to give local producers a bottom price so as to guarantee they can not be undercut by foreign producers and graphite is the same. They both are highly strategic and if worse comes to worse as it rapidly will then we need significant local production. Graphite production is dominated by China to 77% and it is best not to rely on them for our supply. Frankly this should be obvious to anyone. You can disagree and say the world is a nice place but to show incomprehension that he did it is itself incomprehensible.
Or he could simply incentivize US producers by guaranteeing them a price for their output, if it meets the quality and quantity standards needed.
In the meantime, while we wait years or perhaps decades for US graphite producers to meet these goals, we hobble all US manufacturers who need graphite in sufficient qualities and quantities with these tariffs.
It’s moronic. Which is probably why you support it.
If supplies are cut off by the unfriendly powers that control the market for those materials that would really hurt American manufacturers more don’t you think? I bet you never thought of that.
Of course he has, but that doesn’t matter to him. He’s only concerned about our near-term capacity to be globally competitive. He’s never articulated a plan to secure America’s long-term economic future. It’s all about the here and now, and how he can profit off it.
Maybe he’ll have an incredible reply to your point. Let’s see what he comes up with. My guess it will lean heavily on the government incentivizing (aka subsidizing) these strategic industries.
Personally, I think the answer is a mixture of lowering regulation & tariffs which Trump is doing and incentivizing which I think he’ll start to deploy in due time. The former two are the hard parts. The latter is much easier to deploy & manage.
Where is the plan to make these materials available to the American manufacturers? China didn’t make all that progress just by wishing for it. It took them EIGHT 5-year plans to accomplish what they have.
But we can’t do any planning whatsoever because – why? – that would be {{{sOcIaLiSm}}}
China has a labor participation rate of 65.8% with a population of 1.4 billion so it has 921 million workers all mostly getting paid peanuts.
https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/china/labour-force-participation-rate
Where Trump went wrong here is insisting that ALL manufacturing come back. Everything from shoes to t-shirts to rare earths, steel, copper, etc.
There is no way the US can produce all of this stuff with a population of 330 million, 70 million of which are senior citizens. It is mathematically impossible but even if it could, the costs will be astronomical. And if robots are the answer then start using them, what’s everyone waiting for?
I bet you haven’t thought of that.
We have one of the largest prison population per capital. We can put them to work for Penny’s on the dollar.
Go ahead and do it. While you’re at it, bring back slavery and add yourself to the slave list. Well scratch that, most Americans are already slaves and don’t really know it. They know something is wrong which is why they’re all angry.
Reading the headlines on Drudge about:
MTG angry at the GOP
Laura Loomer angry at Tucker Carlson
Tucker angry and Nick Fuentes
Nick angry at Tucker
It’s all MAGA on MAGA hate, I guess the real civil war is between all these MAGA extremists. Lol. Funny to watch.
https://x.com/Kaizerrev/status/1951529170086875307
Hahahaha! What a dumb f*ck! If supplies are cut off tomorrow, tell me how will Trump’s tariffs policies help domestic production of these raw materials?
1. So, until such time as supplies of these products gets “cut off”, what’s the best way to increase US production of any of these raw materials? Tariffs, which hurt our manufacturers who must import these raw materials until domestic production increases; or domestic incentives that will increase production without hurting our manufacturers?
Hahahaha!
“ If supplies are cut off by the unfriendly powers that control the market for those materials ”
2. Yes. Unfriendly powers; most of them used to be friendly just a few months ago. Till Trump’s tariffs pissed them off. Our top 4 sources of imported steel are Canada, Brazil, Mexico and South Korea. Trump put 50% tariffs on their steel. Our top 4 aluminum imports are from Canada, China, Mexico, UAE. I wonder why these countries might “cut us off”? Got any ideas? Hahaha!
IF TRUMP’S TARIFFS HAVE PISSED THEM OFF SO BAD, WHY AREN’T THEY RETALIATING?
HE’S ALREADY SECURED AGREEMENTS WITH A LOT OF IMPORTANT COUNTRIES, INCLUDING THE EU.
CHINA IS NEGOTIATING WITH HIM. SO IS MEXICO?
WHERE’S THE RETALIATION THAT MATTERS?
IT’S LIKE THE ONLY DAMN THING YOU CARE ABOUT IS STEEL.
Lol! There are many ways to retaliate.
While some countries have retaliated with counter tariffs, they also realize that tariffs can hurt their domestic industries, so they don’t always choose this method.They don’t always need to shoot themselves in the foot just because the US is doing so.
Canada, for example has simply banned some US imports like alcohol. Why bother with a tariff. Just ban it.
And individuals in many countries are simply choosing to not buy US products, or take US vacations because they are pissed off at Trump. I have seen this frequently in my travels this year.
But the number one way to retaliate is to increase trade with countries other than the US.
Many countries are already working hard to increase trade with each other. The UK just signed very comprehensive trade agreements with India and Australia. Nothing at all like the little “deal” on a single sheet of toilet paper with Trump, that he will eventually flush when he has another childish tantrum.
The EU has signed recent comprehensive trade agreements with Mexico, Chile, Singapore, and Kenya. They are close to comprehensive deals with India, New Zealand, Indonesia, Malaysia, and the Philippines.
Canada with Armenia, Barbados, Benin. They are close to an agreement with AESEAN. And a bilateral with Mexico.
And many more. Comprehensive agreements; not insignificant tiny Trump deals.
It’s not that they don’t want to trade with the US anymore. They do. But they simply recognize that we are no longer a stable or reliable trading partner as long as Trump (who keeps changing his position and will never keep his word) is President. So Trump is forcing them into each other’s arms. So they will increase trade with each other, to their mutual benefit, while Trump reduces US trade with everyone. The US loses while everyone else wins.
Incidentally, most of Trump’s “deals” bear no resemblance to comprehensive trade agreements. They are mostly smoke and mirrors that he brags about, that do very little to help US companies, and probably do more to hurt US companies. After all, as you said yourself, US companies are paying these tariffs. Not the other country.
Why all caps? Someone disagree with you?
It’s from the frustration of him always losing logical arguments.
Since when have electric vehicle batteries been strategic? Please explain.
“Frankly this should be obvious to anyone.”
But it’s not, and that’s really big problem.
So what’s the best way to incentivize US production of heavily imported materials like steel, aluminum, copper, graphite, rare earths, potash, lumber, heavy oil, etc.?
Tariffs; which punish US companies that must import these needed items?
Or domestic incentives like guaranteed prices, tax incentives, subsidies etc that encourage more domestic production without hurting US companies that have to import these items?
Incentivizing / subsidizing costs the government money, whereas tariffs bring in money. With record corporate profits vs record government deficits, I think “incentivizing” should be the last strategy instead of first.
In addition, tariffs tax corporations’ profits which for the time being I’m fine with. Again, using GM as an example, I don’t have a problem with their profit margin falling. It just means they don’t get to take profits & buyback shares.
It’s called America First for a reason. Can you imagine the capital investments that could occur if Congress outlawed stock buybacks? As I’ve said many times, we are in dire need of a change in national will into a moon shot to beat China. Very little else matters.
But again, I’m not against what you’re suggesting. I just think there’s an order to this that Trump is playing out. The $400M investment the Pentagon is making in MP is a pretty good example of what you’re asking for. It’s a direct investment by the government which is a form of subsidizing.
Lol! I love it when you support my arguments!
“ In addition, tariffs tax corporations’ profits which for the time being I’m fine with. Again, using GM as an example, I don’t have a problem with their profit margin falling. It just means they don’t get to take profits & buyback shares.”
Yep. Let’s crush US auto manufacturing. That will make America great again when we no longer have an auto industry because we are putting tariffs on so much of what they must import that they cannot compete against foreign manufacturers.
Thanks again for helping my argument. I appreciate it.
GM is not getting crushed. They are still profitable. All that’s happening to them is they’re not getting to buyback stock for the time being. GM has WAY more to be concerned about regarding their high labor costs than Trump’s tariffs that will prove to be “transitory” to borrow a term from Powell.
Still profitable for now.
But not if you have your way. You think the best way to make American auto companies more competitive is to tax them more and reduce their profits. And not just taxes on profits; but taxes on their very inputs, like steel, aluminum, copper, magnets, tires, auto parts etc etc. Extra costs which their foreign competition doesn’t have to worry about. This is in addition to those higher labor costs you mention.
Yep. Soon GM’s vehicles will be so expensive that sales will plummet, profits will disappear and another government bailout will happen.
Lol! I am getting tired of all this winning!
At least you are smarter than Doug. You realize that American companies like GM are paying the tariffs on steel, aluminum, copper, auto parts, batteries etc.
Doug thinks other countries are paying the tariffs to US customs.
The government doesn’t have any money. “Government money” is what it extracts directly and indirectly from consumers. Government has no incentive to use the money wisely.
Either way, our costs increase along with opportunities for corruption; whenever taxpayer money is given away, lots goes “missing’.
Yep. But without incentives to get more domestic production of raw materials like steel, aluminum, copper, graphite etc that we currently MUST import, there will be no increase is that production because it is not profitable for the private sector to do so.
So we will have to keep importing those materials.
But here’s a great idea. Let’s put tariffs on those imports to make them more expensive and weaken our manufacturing sector which has to import them. Lol!
Trump is doing his best to crush US manufacturing by increasing their input costs so much that they cannot compete with anyone.
Steel, aluminum, copper, graphite, etc.
And he is letting China dominate the future energy growth areas: solar, wind, grid modernization, batteries, EVs, critical minerals, electric trains, etc.
As always, I cannot stop Trump from his mission to destroy US manufacturing. All I can do is take advantage of it.
Black & Red October.
– Trump is doing his best to crush US manufacturing by increasing their input costs on Steel, aluminum, copper, graphite, etc.
> The U.S. has implemented tariffs on steel imports, and these tariffs aim to protect domestic steel producers and reduce our small reliance on foreign steel. The U.S. is a major steel producer, and generated around 81 million metric tons of steel in 2024. This allows us to get Steel from any of our (5+) sources, which easily covers our Domestic Shortcomings. Aluminum we rely on more imports, but have well over 15 Countries we can source it from, so similar to Steel in terms of being under control. Copper even more so because we make so much of it. We still rely on some, but we have a working mines that could increase production, and a New Mine (stalled) but could be ready to go quickly if it had to I’m guessing.
– And he is letting China dominate the future energy growth areas: solar, wind, grid modernization, batteries, EVs, critical minerals, electric trains, etc.
> We are allowing them to dominate those areas. We are seeing what they are doing well, and not so well. We have a good grip on things here, but no need to spend our resources on EV’s right now. Infrastructure should be done first anyway, and always, or you’re simply wasting your time and money more often than not… Same with Solar, Wind, Batteries, Trains Etc. Not needed now, like they are in China for example. It’s the proving ground for these sorts of things, for so many reasons. Critical Minerals I agree with, and we are working here and abroad on that issue. We have been for quite sometime, and as it’s played so close to the vest, for obvious reasons, we are not even sure how much we are producing or even have stored here. Trains if we use CA. As an example, you’re 100% Correct! Otherwise, it can obviously be done, if we had to…
“ The U.S. is a major steel producer, and generated around 81 million metric tons of steel in 2024. This allows us to get Steel from any of our (5+) sources, which easily covers our Domestic Shortcomings.”
Yep. Domestic Shortcomings. We don’t produce enough steel to meet our domestic needs.
Our top 4 sources of imported steel are Canada, Brazil, Mexico and South Korea. Trump put 50% tariffs on their steel. Which only hurts US manufacturers who need this imported steel. Which makes them even LESS competitive against their foreign competition that does not have to pay a similar tariff.
“ Aluminum we rely on more imports, but have well over 15 Countries we can source it from, so similar to Steel in terms of being under control.”
Yep. And 50% tariffs on it. Thanks again for making my argument for me.
> You left out Vietnam & Japan? Did you ask them? Maybe they are willing to sell more to us? Can the U.S. produce more? Did you ask them? I didn’t realize the Tariff issue was finalized yet? When did Trump tell You? Every Country we buy Aluminum from has a 50% Tariff? I didn’t know all 15+ of them were done negotiating.
I did not know many at all were finalized and etched in stone by both Parties Involved already… I apologize, and must do a whole lot more research I guess, and make some phone calls, if your correct of course…
Hahahaha! I’m certain that Vietnam and Japan would love to sell us more of everything as well. But Trump put tariffs on Vietnam and Japan; just like all those other countries. Which makes it very expensive for our domestic companies to import steel, aluminum, etc from them as well.
In the meantime, why don’t YOU ask all those questions yourself. Let me know what they all say.
Hahahaha!
“And he is letting China dominate the future energy growth areas: solar, wind, grid modernization, batteries, EVs, critical minerals, electric trains, etc.”
How is Trump letting them dominate these industries? They’ve been dominating them since their inception, save maybe EVs.
And why do they dominate these industries? Well, there are several reasons, but the most important one is cheap labor that America cannot compete with.
I agree with your incentivize point. My bet is that Trump will deploy them both in due time. For now, he’s focused on tariffs which you detest. That’s fine. Either you or Trump will be shown to be brilliant. Time will tell.
Fortunately, he’s trying to decouple America from China as quickly as possible, and in my book, that’s an outstanding goal.
We lost 4 years under crooked Joe Biden who was owned by Zelensky, Putin & Xi.
“ How is Trump letting them dominate these industries?”
Lol. Trump is trying to REDUCE US solar, and wind. While China is adding more solar and wind than the rest of the world combined each year now. He is actually helping them become more dominant.
🇺🇸 Former President Donald Trump’s administration has taken several steps to slow the growth of solar and wind energy in the U.S., primarily through legislation and executive actions. Here’s a breakdown of the key moves:
🧱 Legislative and Regulatory Barriers
• “One Big Beautiful Bill Act”: This newly enacted law strips financial incentives from solar and wind projects while boosting coal, gas, and nuclear energy A B.
• Tightened Tax Credit Access: Developers now face a narrow window to qualify for clean energy tax credits. They must begin construction by the end of 2025 to avoid disqualification due to new restrictions B.
• Expanded Political Review: Federal permitting for renewables now requires additional layers of political oversight, creating delays and uncertainty for developers A.
🏞️ Federal Land Restrictions
• Interior Department Oversight: Interior Secretary Doug Burgum has been given final authority over solar and wind projects on federal land, including leases, site plans, and environmental reviews A.
• Permitting Freeze: An executive order has paused federal permitting for both offshore and onshore wind projects, effectively blocking new developments C.
📉 Impact on Clean Energy Growth
• Forecasted Decline: BloombergNEF projects a 23% drop in clean energy additions through 2030, with onshore wind facing a 50% cut compared to earlier forecasts B.
• Economic Consequences: Critics argue these policies will raise electricity costs, increase pollution, and weaken the electric grid just as demand surges due to AI and data center growth C.
Nuclear is the future of US energy, specifically fusion.
As we’ve said MANY times here on Mishtalk, America’s resources need to go into developing nuclear as fast as we possibly can. America is never going to produce solar panels anywhere near the cost of China. Wind is also over hyped. We should be doing tidal-based power instead, because it’s way less intermittent.
Solar is best suited for letting individual homeowners reduce or eliminate their dependence on the grid. Solar panels have to be replaced every 30 years and get torn up by hail & storms.
I’m not going to call solar or wind a scam, but I do vehemently support re-allocating resources immediately to nuclear.
Nuclear energy is one of the most important moonshots we need to make, and out being at least 20 years behind where we should be is squarely the fault of liberals.
Correct. There is close to a 100% correlation between economic growth and energy consumption. If you want to grow your economy, you need more energy.
Fusion would be great. But it’s been 20 years away for the last 50 years. And there is no guarantee that it will be the USA that gets there first. What if China or Russia get fusion first? Assuming anyone gets there at all in the next 50 years. You cannot count on fusion.
Our energy future is predicated on a lot more electricity consumption. In 1950, just 5% of global energy use was electricity. This grew to 10% in 1970, 17% by 2000, and 23% in 2024. It will keep growing to 35% by 2050. You can thank AI Data Centers, Crypto, EVs, Heat Pumps, Air Conditioners, etc.
This will require massive grid improvements. Now who is currently spending a fortune on improving their grid for an electrical future. Not the US. As in all things electrical; it’s China.
Which country added more new electricity generation in 2024, than the rest of the world combined; China.
China added 278 GW of solar and 80 GW of wind in 2024. The US added 30 GW of solar and 3GW of wind.
Currently, China is building 28 nuclear power plants with 33GW of capacity. And they have plans for 30 more. The US is building ZERO.
All that new electricity generation means that China can grow their economy much faster than we can.
We are falling further and further behind every year.
In 2024, the US added 38 GW of new electricity generation capacity.
30 GW from solar (a scam as you say?)
3 GW from wind (another scam?)
5 GW from natural gas
China added 477 GW of new generation in 2024.
477 GW vs 38 GW
I wonder which economy will grow faster?
We’ll just dance and sing and burn fossil fuels unfiltered until we’re not desperate and shell-shocked anymore.
As has ALWAYS been the case, Trump showing the world he is a complete financial and economic illiterate ! I just wish the US could see this!
Taco is going off the deep end and is in desperate need of a thorough medical exam by a competent physician that he can’t bribe before he does irreparable harm to the economy.
I hope he’s not goofing with the nuclear football.
I live in the “sponge”…
Drop them already!!!!