The only question is whether the charge should be voluntary or involuntary manslaughter.
Videos of the Day
The videos are 100% clear. The woman who was killed was no threat to ICE agents.
She dis not try to run anyone over.
Pronouns
“Mom” and “Wife”
Help Not Allowed
Flabbergasted
I cannot possibly explain how angry I am over this unjustified homicide.
Asinine Administration Spin Makes Me Sick
Trump’s Lie of the Day
Damning Evidence
Untrained Gestapo
“Real professional. Other ice officer almost taken out by bullet ricochet , A car slamming into a sidewalk & other parked cars. No fucking thought of safety for the community”
Not On Purpose, But Purposeful Conditions
This section is from an email by Jack Hopkins
The way ICE is being deployed creates conditions where lethal outcomes become dramatically more likely…regardless of intent…policy justifications…or individual officer behavior.
Not because every agent is malicious.
Not because every operation is illegal.
But because the structure itself amplifies fear…misinterpretation…escalation…and irreversible decisions.ICE agents often operate
- In unmarked vehicles
- In plain clothes or tactical gear without clear identification
- In residential neighborhoods
- During early morning or high-confusion hours
To a civilian…this can look indistinguishable from:
- Kidnapping
- Criminal impersonation
- Vigilante action
When civilians cannot immediately identify who is confronting them…or why…their stress response spikes.
But here’s the catch:
Tactics meant to induce compliance also induce panic.And panic does not produce rational behavior. It produces:
- Flight responses
- Misinterpretation of commands
- Sudden movements
- Attempts to escape
Only a Matter of Time
It was only a matter of time before Trump’s Gestapo Goons did something like this.
I suspect Trump is happy about it. If there are protests he will send in the National Guard.
OK, the woman should not have tried to run away. However, she should not have died for acting out of fear.
But please step back for a moment.
Q: Why was she targeted in the first place?
A: Because she looked Hispanic.
ICE made the first and last mistake.
I support manslaughter charges against the ICE officer.
Addendum
It would help is readers could think. It would help even more if they could read.
Reader: The agent that fired a weapon is NOT who you show in the video. another officer in FRONT of the vehicle is hit after the images you show here. Goodness gracious. At least get the video footage all across the internet showing the third officer, who is in the path of the car.
Mish: That bullet hole is on the far left side of the vehicle. If the officer who shot it was in front it would not have hit the driver in the head. Many pictures show this.
There is no justification for shooting. And there was no justification for stopping this person in the first place!
It was racial profiling based on looks.
Addendum II – Reuters Description
Reuters Link: Videos of the shooting posted on social media and verified by Reuters raised doubts about the government’s account. One widely shared video showed a maroon Honda SUV partially blocking the road. As the clip begins, the driver inches forward before stopping to let another car pass.
The driver, with the window down, then appears to gesture to an approaching pickup truck to go ahead as well. Instead, the truck stops, and two officers exit and approach the car on foot.
As one of the officers orders the driver out of the SUV and grabs at the door handle, the vehicle reverses briefly, and a third agent moves to the front of the car from the passenger side.
The driver then advances, steering to the right in what appears to be an effort to drive away from the officers. The agent in front of the car pulls his weapon, steps back and fires as the moving car’s left front bumper comes close to his legs.
He fires three shots, with at least one shot after the car’s front bumper had passed him. It was not clear from the video whether the car made contact with the officer, who stayed on his feet throughout the encounter.
That matches the videos I watched. The bullet in the front window is clearly from the side, not directly in front.
The image of the woman appears to me to be Hispanic. But that was my guess. It may be incorrect.
Regardless, this is unwarranted manslaughter. No videos show any officer in need of treatment.
Addendum III – Rolling Stone
Rolling Stone Link: President Donald Trump offered a statement on his social media website, Truth Social, describing the driver of the car as “very disorderly, obstructing and resisting, who then violently, viciously, and willfully ran over the ICE Officer, who seems to have shot her in self-defense.”
Trump’s description is directly contradicted by the video of the incident, which appears to show the ICE agent hopping backward out of the path of the car, then walking toward the car after the shooting.
Again, there are no videos that show an attempt by Good to use her car as a weapon.
The wheels, bullet hole, etc. all clearly show attempt to flee. No car was ever aimed at ICE.
Addendum IV – Slow Motion Video
I thought I posted that video in my original set. However, I did see the video before I did my post.
This confirms beyond a shadow of a doubt the ICE agent who fired the weapon was not in jeopardy. And after the car had turned, two more shots fired.
And Contradictory Instructions
The only thing I may have had wrong was racial profiling, in this instance. But without a doubt, in general, ICE is doing illegal racial profiling.
Addendum V – Reader Comment from Felony State Prosecutor
I was a felony State prosecutor for 9 years- in both New Orleans and Dallas. I’ve seen a lot. I saw the best video of this shooting (there are several) many times, including a slow motion analysis. It thoroughly disgusted me. It cannot be excused as self defense-no way.
Keep in mind, I am a conservative. I believe Derek Chauvin and his fellow officers got a raw deal in the George Floyd case. They should have been terminated, given probation at worst, if not acquitted. The Capitol Hill police officer who killed Ashleigh Babbit committed murder IMHO.
The ICE officer who killed this lady committed cold blooded murder. I see no justification for excusing this ICE Officer for the murder of this lady, regardless of whether she was justified or not in her own foolish actions. As a law enforcement officer with a gun, if you are so cowardly and afraid that you believe you can kill a person in cold blood, because of whatever slight and unjustified reason that you feel you might possibly get hurt, you do not belong in law enforcement. The officer should be prosecuted. Maybe not be put in prison for decades like Chauvin, but he should pay for killing this young lady. I hope the family sues and gets paid a fortune from the federal government for this tragedy.
Suing the Federal Government will get you nowhere.
But a state prosecution could and should get that ICE agent convicted.
Addendum VI
A reader responder with a typical Whataboutism comment. I am surprised it took so long.
But polls show the public does not support these tactic. Unfortunately, the hard liners in the Administration won out.
I discussed a far more sensible Trump on several occasions.
Please consider Trump’s Inconsistent Positions on Deport them All, What Should He Do?
The Softer Side of Trump
On November, 11. 2024, the Wall Street Journal discussed Trump’s Mass Deportation Promise
Speaking Monday on Fox News, Mr. Homan said the priority will be “public-safety threats and national-security threats,” as well as migrants who “had due process” and “their federal judge said ‘you must go home,’ and they didn’t.”
Good to hear, and add what Mr. Homan told “60 Minutes” last month. “It’s not going to be a mass sweep of neighborhoods,” he said. “It’s not going to be building concentration camps. I’ve read it all. It’s ridiculous.”
Instead he said Mr. Trump’s plan would involve “targeted arrests,” and eventually “worksite enforcement operations.” If officers making an arrest also find an undocumented grandma in the house, will they detain her? “It depends,” Mr. Homan said. “Let the judge decide.”
Some of Mr. Trump’s advisers, including Mr. Miller, have talked about mass deportation in sweeping terms. But enforcement priorities are up to the President, and Mr. Trump has suggested he isn’t interested in illegal grandmothers.
Mr. Trump can do much on immigration by executive action, but a durable solution needs legislation. Maybe Democrats, after the electoral haymaker they got last week, will be willing to compromise more than they have in the past. Mr. Trump missed a chance for a bipartisan deal in 2018 to permanently change the border incentives on asylum and more. He’ll have a narrow window again next year, if he’s willing and has the heart.
A Sensible Plan
A sensible plan is to deport the criminals, shut the border, improve the legal process, give priority to parents and spouses of US citizens, give priority to those here the longest, and give priority to those working.
A Watered Down Deportation Effort?
On December 15, the Wall Street Journal reported Trump Allies Fear Watered Down Deportation Efforts
In the weeks since the election, and even in some rally speeches toward the end of the campaign, Trump and his incoming advisers have alluded to a mass removal effort of immigrants with a criminal record, a far narrower set of people than the 15 million to 20 million Trump pledged to deport earlier in the year. Tom Homan, the president-elect’s incoming border czar, has said Trump’s team isn’t planning to perform mass raids in immigrant enclaves—the worst fear of immigrants-rights activists.
“This isn’t going to be neighborhood sweeps and military vehicles going through the city,” Homan said in an interview with Dr. Phil McGraw on Thursday after meeting with New York Mayor Eric Adams. “I told him, you know, President Trump and myself have committed that this is going to be a targeted enforcement operation.”
The president-elect’s allies also are concerned by the Trump team’s willingness to exclude some categories of migrants. Trump said in a recent interview with NBC, for example, that he wanted to work with Democrats to come up with legislation to protect Dreamers, immigrants in the U.S. illegally who were brought as children, from deportation.
Trump Says Dreamers Should Stay!
On December 9, 2024, I noted On Meet the Press, Trump Said He “Wants the Illegal Dreamers to Stay”
Trump’s interview on Meet the Press sounds exactly like the deportation strategy I proposed.
Partial Interview Transcript (Emphasis Mine)
Kristen Welker:
What about dreamers, sir? Dreamers, who were brought to this country illegally as children. You said once back in 2017 they, quote, “Shouldn’t be very worried about being deported.” Should they be worried now?President-Elect Trump:
The dreamers are going to come later, and we have to do something about the dreamers because these are people that have been brought here at a very young age. And many of these are middle-aged people now. They don’t even speak the language of their country. And yes, we’re going to do something about the dreamers. And —Kristen Welker:
What does that mean? What are you going to do?President-Elect Trump:
I will work with the Democrats on a plan. And if we can come up with a plan, but the Democrats have made it very, very difficult to do anything. Republicans are very open to the dreamers. The dreamers, we’re talking many years ago they were brought into this country. Many years ago. Some of them are no longer young people. And in many cases, they’ve become successful. They have great jobs. In some cases they have small businesses. Some cases they might have large businesses. And we’re going to have to do something with them.Kristen Welker:
You want them to be able to stay, that’s what you’re saying?President-Elect Trump:
I do. I want to be able to work something out, and it should’ve been able to be worked out over the last three or four years and it never got worked out.
“Should we deport everyone here illegally, even if they have been here five years, have a job, have citizen children, and have no criminal background, at a cost of hundreds of billions of dollars, resulting in labor shortages and huge inflation?”
Only confirmed bigots would answer yes.
But that’s where we are. And it shows up in the polls.
Growing shares say the Trump administration is doing ‘too much’ to deport immigrants in the U.S. illegally
On December 15, PEW reported Growing shares say the Trump administration is doing ‘too much’ to deport immigrants in the U.S. illegally
53% of Americans say it is doing “too much” when it comes to deporting immigrants who are living in the United States illegally. That share is up from 44% in March.
At the same time, a large majority continue to say at least some of these immigrants should be deported, according to a Pew Research Center survey of U.S. adults conducted Oct. 6-16, 2025.
We could have a sensible policy that would unite most of the nation (except the hard core bigots and economic illiterates), but we don’t.
That is likely my longest addendum ever.
Final Addendum – Closing Comments
A reader asked me to play this video from 1:56 to 2:02
I did – It shows nothing. Nothing
You cannot tell anything from that view as the car blocks visually seeing where the ICE agent was standing.
This is like instant replay in sports where one angle shows everything you need to see and another angle doesn’t.
I deleted a bunch of idiotic comments, but the above comment was not at all idiotic. It is an instant reply from the wrong angle.
This angle is like a replay in sports where it is hard to overrule the ref. So one must look at all the reviews and all the angles, not just one.
The other angles offer proof. The above angle obscures the truth.
Here is another good angle.
Correct Analysis
My Sentiments Exactly
The Law
There’s still more damning evidence against ICE. One officer was yelling to move and a second telling her to get out of the car. She elected to move. A confused but fatal choice.
That’s secondary. The homicide charge stands.
Case Closed.
It would help is readers could think. It would help even more if they could read.
Reader: The agent that fired a weapon is NOT who you show in the video. another officer in FRONT of the vehicle is hit after the images you show here. Goodness gracious. At least get the video footage all across the internet showing the third officer, who is in the path of the car.
Mish: That bullet hole is on the far left side of the vehicle. If the officer who shot it was in front it would not have hit the driver in the head. Many pictures show this.
There is no justification for shooting. And there was no justification for stopping this person in the first place!
It was racial profiling based on looks.
Edits
Further review suggest racial profiling may not be involved, in this instance. But there is zero doubt ICE is guilty of racial profiling in general.
In addendum IV, I added a video that without a doubt proves the woman was attempting to flee. I saw that video before doing this post and was immensely angered.
I thought I posted that video in the initial set. The new lead image shows when the ICE agent first fired. It confirms bullet mostly from the side with wheels (and thus the car), moving away from the officer.
More Edits
A reader asked me to play another angle. I did and posted a final addendum showing it.
You cannot tell anything from that view as the car blocks visually seeing where the ICE agent was standing.
This is like instant replay in sports where one angle shows everything you need to see and another angle doesn’t.
So one must look at all the reviews and all the angles, not just one.
The other angles offer proof. The angle the reader aske me to review, shows nothing.
Why look at poor angles when you have multiple good ones?
He was angry that she didn’t immediately submit to his power trip. He represents the government perfectly.
Where my 2nd amendment peeps at?
Hahah… licking the boot of the big masked man, I see!
Wow look at all the downvotes. There are plenty of examples on YT of bad behavior by police for the crime of “contempt of cop”. Lackluster’s channel has lots of them.
These little piggies touch themselves sensually while watching those videos, whispering “HARDER DADDY!”
Your 2nd Amendment is in the book.
And you clowns want to put them in charge of our healthcare
The basic role of government is to protect their citizens. The issue here is that it harmed a citizen. So yeah, ‘clowns’ want to ensure universal healthcare which has proven in 38 other developed countries to reduce costs, increase life expectancy and eliminate related bankruptcies.
These ‘Public Servants’ demand obedience from their subjects who pay their salary and will kill without hesitation anyone who gets in their way. The callous shooting of a human being and leisurely stroll away from the car by the officer (who quickly adjusted his mask to prevent identification) belies the ridiculous story that this was a self-defense response by someone in fear for his life. He obviously didn’t need to shoot her; he shot her in the head because she defied his authority and he wanted to let her know that he won’t tolerate disobedience from his subjects.
The woman was an ordinary suburban white mom. Understand that YOUR life is at risk if you dare say or do anything federal agents dislike. We are heading towards a police state.
“We are heading towards a police state”
We Have Been In A ‘Police State’ Since The 911 FF Event.!
Patriot Acts + NDAA = No Constitution.!
Permanent ‘War’ Mode.!
End Of ‘American’ Empire – Rise Of ‘Greater Israel’.!
War Economy Since 911 FF Event – Iran Only Country Left.
In 1995, Benjamin Netanyahu wrote a book called ‘Fighting Terrorism’ where he listed 7 countries that needed ‘Regime Change’ to ‘Secure Israel’. Those countries were Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Iran.
In 2001, This is a memo that describes how we’re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and – Finishing off, Iran. Gen W. Clark
bmcc, right up your alley. Surely you were in Syria, Lebanon or maybe Syria around that time?
Please regale us about your John Wick exploits.
“Surely you were in Syria, Lebanon or maybe Syria around that time”
Everyone Is A ‘Gullible/Deceived’ Product of the – ‘Dumbed Down Educational System’ – ‘Fallin Away Church’ – Boob Tube ‘Operation Mockingbird’ TV Programming.!
Hard to Break Out of Decades of Programming – Most Don’t Want To.!
John, for the record, I have not watched mainstream television in over 30 years. With 2 exceptions College & Pro Football
I agree with you. But that has not applied to me in a long long time
This will continue to get worse until enough of us say NO!
Watch the video, he was on the front left (driver’s) side when the vehicle made contact with him..and he fired. This is not hard. Watch it happen in full motion, very easy to see.
Arguing whether the person should have been stopped, whether you think they should be doing law enforcement actions, etc is not the point. Once detained, if you aim your vehicle and strike the officer, the conditions change. Notice the other officers didn’t fire, they weren’t in immediate harm’s way of the driver. The one that suddenly appears in the field of view front driver’s side is the one that fired, as he’s being struck.
That bullet hole is exactly where i would suspect the officer that fired would have hit from the videos I’ve seen.
There are countless traffic-stop instances just like this where officers fire once a car puts the officer in danger/path of vehicle.
I get it, you don’t want these actions to occur in the first place but given the circumstances, where one accepts that they are doing a lawful function as lawfully assigned by the agency, once the vehicle became a weapon the officer had 2 choices, risk getting hit more dangersously and hope diving away would keep him safe and the driver had no more intent than to flee OR remove the threat. When you choose to put the vehicle in drive and aim where LE was you force the officer to choose as well.
…and then he simply stepped aside and didn’t even get knocked down.
Then he shot her again.
This is not the first time. They did that before, but most of you wouldn’t care. That’s why countries have dictators. Many of you here support them.
I suggest you take a look at Addendum IV.
BTW this is not after the fact. I thought I posted that in my original set.
I did create a new image now from that video.
Unmistakable.
<><><><>
What is Fascism?
Fascism views forms of violence, political violence, imperialist violence and acts of war as a means of national rejuvenation. Fascists often advocate for the abolishment of elections and establishment of a totalitarian one-party state. Fascists promote a market economy in which the state plays a strong, directive role through market intervention with the goal of achieving national economic self-sufficiency. Fascism emphasizes national rebirth or regeneration through purging the nation of decadence. Fascism centers around in-group-outgroup opposition and demonization of “Others” such as immigrants, ethnicities, nations, races, political opponents, sexual and gender minorities. Such demonization has motivated fascist regimes to commit murders, massacres, deportations, and genocides.
Any questions?
You just described China under the CCP.
Not sure why that has more downvotes.
Oh, I know why
For kicks I asked a deep research AI model to identify the origin of this “definition” of fascism was from:
Priceless…
I don’t live in china. I live in the USA. Fascism is happening in the USA, and the pigs love it.
The Hurt Me Daddy crowd is ascendant for now.
The pigs won’t like the Nuremberg type trials in 2030.
So what, this is about America. Your reply is stupid whataboutism. Our country is going to shit who cares about China?
I got to agree with you that it looks to me like he was in front and she accelerated.
Many mistakes made:
The left needs to let the ICE agents do their job. You can protest, but you can’t be a belligerent and get in their faces, block their vehicles, and threaten them with physical harm. Sad day in America when people won’t be civil and use common sense.
The left wasn’t blocking anything here. ICE however was blocking medical assistance from reaching the victim (a US Citizen btw).
Most people support removing illegal immigrants. That doesn’t mean that ICE is operating in the best way to do so.
You miss the point. The show of power and killing IS the point. The evangelicals LOVE it.
Just wait till the AI pictures of Jesus helping him aim at her face start showing up.
ICE is out of control. This administration is out of control and out of it’s collective mind. This admin has got to go.
They’ll go. On Jan 20, 2029.
Have a great day!
Like to bet? They will be gone when enough of us say no which will be before 2029.
lol. no
The rats will abandon ship after Nov.
No kidding she panicked.
Three ICE agents approach. You hear an agent yelling at you to leave the area. You hear another agent yelling at you to get out of your car. Gee, what could inspire more calm in a person? At least this way you get to choose what you get shot in the face for?
she was a dingbat, but sure, let’s pretend she’s a rational person for fun. I hear purple was her favorite color.
no, he is clear of the vehicle when he fires.
and your description is not what the adnin said is that she purposefully tried to run over several ICE agents.
Your first sentence is key and I think that is going to be a big determining factor on if he is convicted of any charges.
I have to look at it again. Its split second but you might be right Anthony.
But is that because we are reacting to the sound/echo of the shot or the shot timing itself?
Unlike most other people here I am not a video expert, I am not a criminal law expert, I am not an apologist for the liberal media that has been exciting and getting people to attack ICE agents. Some of whom are paid protestors.
“Some of whom are paid protestors”
Doing Same Thing In USA – As Other Countries.!
CIA’s USAID = Media Propaganda (Ruse of Terrorism/Drugs/Etc to Invade Countries For Resources) Thru Coups – Color Revolutions – Regime Change.!
I dont know if he will face charges. it’s very easy to watch this in slow mo, one frame at a time from when the action is shot from tens of feet away, and it’s another from the agnt’s perspective in real time. it may be a justified mistake, or it may be reckless or it may be murder. I don’t know. what’s repellent here is the narrative from the right that she is a terrorist, that she was trying to run people over on purpose etc… it was a tragic situation all around.
He jumped in front of the vehicle in the first place.
lol, optometrists are widely available and are not expensive. You should see one soon.
Time to shoot, time to move. Ego required him to kill.
““Some of them were leaving, and they just went around her, but ICE gave her orders to leave, while at the same time, another ICE person said, ‘Get out of the car,’ and he reached for her door handle. And then there was an ICE agent in front of her vehicle. So it was difficult for her to leave, as she’d been ordered to do,” Callenson said.
“She turned her steering wheel toward the right. The person was grabbing her door handle, the ICE officer who was in front of her vehicle shot once from the front and twice from the side, hitting her maybe three feet away at the max. Because she was shot, and she was already trying to leave, her foot was on the accelerator, and she crashed into a telephone pole.””
No question it was intentional murder of an unarmed civilian.
Instant 3-Star Mishelin award for truth in journalism on this post.
Expect the violence to only escalate from here. The chief of police looked like he was ready to gun down ICE agents when I saw him on TV.
Got exit strategy?
It’s time to leave the red states to the tender mercies of the federal oppressors. National guard belongs to states.
lol, are you moving to portugal, cuba or canada? You guys are all the same!
Escalating the violence will be a terrible mistake as that will lead to more deaths and no one wants that.
Agreed. But it seems like there is a lot more on the left that want this violence
Seriously? Who was carrying the gun with the intent to kill?
The Mom in the SUV with her kids stuffed animals in the back seat?
This woman was driving her vehicle slowly away from a threatening situation that escalated into an execution.
Watch the video!
This is one case.
You apparently don’t walk around NYC where the left has cash less bail, which equates to instant bail and you have violent felony criminals with 40 plus arrests walking around care free to assault people.
Antifa.
BLM riots
You did try to assasinate Trump twice. Whether you like him or not that is unacceptable violence
You don’t live around it apparently, that doesn’t mean it aint happening.
…So if you are against anti-fascists..
Great reasoning there, but this woman did not try to asassinate Trump twice
Nor does being in George Floyd’s city make her eligible for killing (by the way, did you know that Floyd and his killer Chauvin worked in the same bar as after-hours security?)
Have you ever wondered how there has never been a report on the attempt on Trump’s life or a discussion of how his ear healed so miraculously?
Probably not
Just live your fantasy
NYC is not a fantasy anymore. Its turning into a nightmare.
Do you live there?
YOU LIE. ARE YOU A PAID TROLL ? OR JUST SCARED AND DUMB. THEY GO TOGETHER.
Shouldn’t you be regaling us about your John Wick exploits?
He’s a snowflake in mommie’s basement, and this is how he makes himself feel like he matters to somebody besides mommie.
Maybe that makes you feel better and think you actually know something about people that don’t think like you but I’m doing pretty well for myself considering I grew up on food stamps for many years until I got old enough to take care of myself.
My mom has passed so you if you had any respect or class when you deal with people that don’t think like you, which I don’t believe you have even an ounce of you should apologize.
Mom is gone that house is gone and it had no basement.
You on the other hand have Trump Derangement Sydrome.
Pedo Derangement Sydrome and I would not doubt if you are the real PEDO
Virtue signal away but please get your facts straight.
And now you support the people that want to take food stamps away.
You are the very worst sort of parasite.
No. But I do want to eliminate food stamp fraud which is in probably around 100 Billion dollars total in our 50 states
I see you have not updated your statement but hey don’t ever let facts get in the way of your agenda.
Virtue signal away
Look AOC isn’t interested no matter how much you mime her idiocy. Nice try though.
If NYC turns around according to your metrics in the next few years are you going to credit Mandini or what ever his name is?
Yes I knew about Floyd & Chauvin.
Are you saying Trump was not the victim of an attempted assasination?
There is a more than 1 dead body and greiving families to prove it but I guess in your world that never happened
I go to NYC at least once every two years for Broadway shows, great restaurants and to see family. Never a problem.
Heck, my wife left her wallet in a cab and it was returned to her.
BINGO FROSTY.
once every 2 years?
With your CCP? You know liberals don’t like guns Frosty.
So did you CC and break the stupid law?
No, I feel safe and follow the law.
In a fascist state, you will be executed if you do not…
Or just executed ~ after taking your kids to school and trying to follow orders.
Either way, you are a fascist supporter.
Sick pedophile supporter as well.
lol, sure you do.
“You did try to assasinate Trump twice.”
I absolutely did not try to do that.
that was the SS under Biden who tried to off Donny of Donroe doctrine.
I didn’t try that either. However.
And that makes it somehow OK to shoot innocent mothers? I don’t see it. Even if you support the way ICE operates it shouldn’t be too hard to admit that they make errors. And that this was a grievous error.
Did I say that? And go look at my comments on the video
This wasn’t an error it is a feature of an out of control ICE.
When the state says jump, you say how high, or they have the right to shoot you in the face.
This is the freedom of President PedoPig.
I was in Manhattan for a month last summer with my wife. I was out and about at all times of day and night. I never felt threatened by anyone at anytime.
BINGO. THIS GUY IS A LIAR OF THE STOOOOPID ORDER.
liar. i walked miles everyday over the past 5 years from the poorest to richest parts of brooklyn. it’s safe as can be. if you do NOT expect in a city of 8 million or a nation of 340 million some murders and whackjobs to occur you need some reality check. how many murders have i eyewitnessed in usa over my first 65 years. only 3. been shot at once, with about 10 shots into our house by a cross fire gun fight in the emerald triangle / wine country / redwood forest area of norcal in an idyllic little village when the mexican cartel shootout turf battle…….a few 16 year olds were shot. they did NOT snitch and locked up and 2 of them absconded by the time of trials. . i only had one little scratch from a ricochet. most of my peers the answer is most likely zero to any of these things. i don’t know what planet or empire folks here live on. but the fear is over the top. the real mayhem in amerika is from our drugged out people and our imperial wars which are never ending slaughters. even the little kidnapping of maduro killed 80 people. some children. our heroes the us military.
Does everyone of your posts have to sound like a condensed John Wick movie?
lol, mom. she was a nutjob and I feel badly for her 3 kids. Nice attempt at deflection, but i guess it’s all you have left.
You are mentally ill, GET HELP!
100% off sale on big screen TVs and Nikes soon.
Thinking one side has some sort of monopoly on violence (or the desire to do it) is just so coddled and blinkered. You have got to wake/grow up, man.
It’s called defending oneself, bet your all up in the 2nd amendment.
If you follow all my posts here about the video, not only have i never mentioned the 2nd amendment, I honestly was not thinking about that
What I was doing was looking at the video from anywhere and everywhere I could find one to make my amature excessment
Of course everyone else here perhaps including you is an expert on guns, gunfire, echo sound and criminal law
Again if you follow my posts you will see that I am not condoning the shooting, not just yet anyway
I need more experts than the ones that are posting here
And there it is, the stupidest thing I will read this year.
Explain why Einstein
Oh I forgot, your an expert on everything
A legend in your own mind that refences Pedo on half his posts
Grow the fuck up asshole
Aww, piggie’s upset.
That’s a foregone conclusion at this point. Sadly, this ICE goon will get away with it and embolden other ICE goons to do the same. Eventually an anti-ICE goon will pull out their own gun(s) and start shooting at ICE goons. It’ll all be goon on goon violence.
“Live by the sword, die by the sword.”
I warned you this would happen and I am warning you it will escalate. Don’t be surprised if riots and burning cities are in your future assuming YOUR Trump hasn’t started an all out war with Russia or China or the rest of the world.
Now you know why I end my comments with…..
Got exit strategy?
Sadly, you are starting to make more sense with your “Got Exit Strategy”. As safe as I think I am, I do live in farm country with MAGA people all around me. Many are peers or friends. But becoming an “Other” and outsider can happen pretty easily. I can easily afford a small home on a rural lake in Canada, just as a precaution…
Then again, Canada is a Trump target and as we see the fanatical behaviors he inspires, Canada is in serious trouble of having its governments leadership captured and put in prison.
I do like New Zealand, but what a pain in the ass it would be to move halfway across the planet!
<><><><>
And now you know why I picked Asia. Trump seems intent on re-colonizing the entire western hemisphere. That may be great for profits but not the people.
I will be far enough away from most of the mayhem and when nuke’s start flying……
NZ is my top 3 favorite places on earth. portugal and japan the other two. been all over. i am glad i have my escape plan too. most of my net worth out of USA. passports to EU and beyond.
Not a fan of Trump, but people start rioting or burning by me they will get a bullet in their stupid head.
Got gun, must kill! I’m guessing you’re an evangelical.
God has chosen him as His instrument, to bring His children home, one shot at a time.
They will likely return the favor, they won’t be unarmed. Everyone has a gun in America. I have my own arsenal ready to use on gov thugs or regular thugs or anyone that threads on me.
Hopefully I’ll get out before that happens.
If you hate the US get out now.
We love our country, we fear its fascist, pedophile president and his violent oppression.
Settle down, Kyle.
MAGA wants more deaths. It gives them a thrill to have that control over other American’s (and Venezuelans, Cubans, Mexicans, Iranians, etc…) lives.
Escalating the violence may be the only way to bring this criminal administration under some semblance of order. Bad way to go but may be necessary. An American insurgency, what could be worse and brought on by this admin.
Thats what they want, so they can escalate back.
Mockery and derision drive them crazy though.
I really think many in the trump admin actually want more violence. That’s what their words and actions show.
That would be an incredibly stupid move. More stupid than this woman not using her brain and getting in the middle of this. You cannot raise any guns. You can get a court order and challenge it that way, but not fighting. A police chief threatening other law enforcement should be removed including by force if he resists.
An how did she get in the middle of this? She was stopped and given conflicting orders by unidentified men carrying guns. She was not stupid at all, just confused. And had the bad luck to run into a trigger happy goon.
The local police should remove all ICE agents immediately.
Mike . Racial profiling? That is a stretch.
And you probably did not have this information below when you wrote that so not calling you out on it but what really troubles me is what happens after she was shot
Once they felt or proved no more threat, they should have attempted to treat her or let someone there who supposedly was a Dr do that. I think they even blocked the ambulance for a bit. Whether it was too late does not matter
Protect and serve. Whether you are right or wrong on the protect remains to be seen, but then the serve has to come into play when the threat is no longer
It didn’t.
That is a disgrace.
Renee Nicole Good. White woman, from the looks of it.
No one wants to talk about white on white crime anymore. And a precious female needed before the demographic collapse really brings out the Mad Max scenarios too.
Those guys are out to kill. This is not the first time they have killed people for nothing.
Come on Jean, you cant make that as a global statement for every case they go out on.
And they are not always going out to get choir boys that just dont have legal papers some of these guys are convicted rapists and murderers with violent assault convictions that are not going down quietly
I don’t think this lady fit the bill of likely “convicted rapist and violent assaulter”. Do you?
No I don’t. But does that justify making the broad statement?
Yes, the observed actions and attitude of ICE agents certainly justifies the statement. Why don’t the “good” ICE agents and supervisors control the bad agents? Because they are all BAD.
They are all bad? I see. You are an expert in this I take it
Great.
That’s it? That’s the logical corner you’re clinging to? The One Good ICE Officer?
Stick to straight up lying. It’s slightly less preposterous.
If you could read several posts here you fucking moron I said more than once I was not justifying the shooting but you got your brain cells so far up your pedo ass you just cant think straight.
Virtual signal away
>>Why don’t the “good” ICE agents and supervisors control the bad agents?<<
IMHO someone is not a good cop if they do nothing to stop or report a bad cop.
I agree that it does not warrant a blanket statement. But neither does your comment justify the shooting of a US woman, who clearly is not a convicted rapist and / or violent assaulter. That was my point
I agree. 2 things. Mike said there was no justification for stopping this person.
Well she pulled into the middle of the road. Who stopped who?
Then he said it was racial profiling based on looks.
Now maybe I misinterpreted what Mike was trying to say and I will apologize to him if I did but I am reading that as she was being racially profiled and that looks to not be the case
She was comin’ right for them, Jimbo!
When your victim is dead there is only one person left to testify. A major reason cameras should be everywhere in public.
I have no problem with cameras
Bottom line, the officer was directly in front of the vehicle when the woman made the conscious decision to step on the gas. That’s all a jury has to see. While the officer was in front of her vehicle, she didn’t stay put, she didn’t get out of the car as they were asking her to do, she made the conscious choice to put that officer in harms way and reasonably fear for his safety. 5% chance this even makes it to trial. If it proves he shot her while he was in the process of getting out of the way, there’s no way he would know in which direction she intended to drive the vehicle and she needed to be stopped with deadly force as if a suspect is fleeing and in the attempt of fleeing an officer has the right to use deadly force if he feels his safety and the safety of others is in jeopardy. Get your Trump hating hat off for a second and think logically and objectively.
And it looks like she was not pulled over. I have to get proof on that but several people said that car was following ice all day and she pulled that car sideways into the road to block all traffic and a police matter
Does not make a shooting justified just from that scenario, but if true that is going to play into his defence as well
Once the officer approaching the driver’s side of the vehicle issued the command to get out of the vehicle, the driver was considered pulled over.
Considered by who? Is that the law in MN??
Did she voluntarily pull over or voluntarily block the road in the middle of a police action?
Something she did more than once during the day apparently.
Then she drove off. So when is she considered not pulled over?
look up the term resisting detainment. When the officer approached her and made it clear he didn’t want her to leave she was detained. another video shows the car did in fact hit the officer. now its resisting with violence. Weather it was a traffic stop or not only maters so far and will not change the big picture on this one.
I agree with you Tanner
And when she was told to leave and complied she was executed without endangering anyone. FASCISM!
I suggest you take a look at Addendum IV.
BTW this is not after the fact. I thought I posted that in my original set.
I did create a new image now from that video.
Unmistakable.
Agreed its unmistakable. She drove toward the guy in front of the SUV. He’s mostly hidden behind the guy at her door and that hidden guy fires his gun when she drives at him.
The Police are given a lot of leeway in situations like this to use force when they feel threatened and her driving at him is considered a threat (this type of situation has happened many times and the officers have not faced prosecution).
I have reviewed this with a former Secret Service and current Police Officer, She has watched the videos and does not consider the officer to have been threatened in any way. The victim was simply pulling away to leave a dangerous escalation by the ICE Officers.
Note the lack of sudden acceleration or wheelspin, before the execution, the steering wheel angle and deliberate turning away from the officer at a slow speed.
The officer was never hit or injured and Trump is proven to be a liar once again.
The officer was hit. She ran over his foot. He was taken to the hospital. She was attempting to evade arrest by fleeing. Her car initially came forward and injured the officer.
What was the victim doing there in the first place?
What was the situation like immediately preceding the incident?
What would a responsible and innocent citizen do when uniformed government officials approach the car?
I could go on. My point is Mish is making a few seconds of video the only important issue, without reviewing the events leading up, etc.
And her actions before that exact moment
In my lifetime of casual youtube browsing, I have seen at least five videos like the following one, where the woman at the wheel is initially calm, and then she just F-ing loses it:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FgrhWE4it8A
I bet you that if I took the time, I could find 100. Cops watch this stuff in training, and then some of them experience it in the real world. It is bad mojo.
He could have stepped aside instead he chose murder.
She could have stayed in her car, stopped. Put her hands on the wheel, and waited. Depending what was said to her, the smart thing to do would be to call her attorney.
Her fleeing the scene was the cause of her death.
No, an ICE agent was the cause of her death. He made the decision to execute her.
Bingo!
+100
Are you sure she was stopped? It looked like she pulled her car into the middle of the road
Not saying that justifies the shooting, but if she was not pulled over and was interfering in a police/ice matter it comes into play here no?
It would certainly mean your statement there was no justification for stopping this woman is incorrect.
Was the penalty for any crime she was committing the death penalty or life? If not the shooting was not justified.
No. And did I say that? Why don’t you go look at all my comments on this thread before you say that.
I was specifically referring to a statement that said this woman was stopped or pulled over when it looks like she pulled her car into the middle of the road.
Resisting detainment with violence. Her car hit him.
Wrong, she did not hit him and was leaving slowly while following the order to leave. She accelerated after her brains were splattered all over her children stuffed animals.
ICE = Hunting Humans by Thugs…
The new ICE mantra, “make my day”.
The killer must be deported.
No, killers should be either incarcerated or put to death
Ilegal alien killers walking around the United States which apparently you do not think there are any should be be deported, then incarcerated or put to death
In your Peace lovin world I know I know, there are no illegal alien murderers
So, out of all of the good reasons to hate Trump for, first and foremost his Zionism (which is basically treason), what do the Americans choose as THE issue with him..?
The best and most important one among the few good things he is doing!
What the ICE is doing is too little too late and enforcement kept at this level will only manage to slow down a little the demographic destruction of the USA.
Still, it’s way better than what the rest of the West is ever going to do. We in the EU+UK can only WET DREAM about such things…
The West is suicidal and truly deserves its fate. Fuck this shit.
This is murder. It is highly disturbing that anyone can look at this video and come to any other conclusion. I don’t care what side you are on, if you cannot see the truth in this particular situation you have lost your humanity.
No Replies today. Everything I have seen here is Rage bait.
lol, Mish is now a forensics maven.
Reality and a range of points of view are important…
Unfortunately this will result in the realization that Trump and his minions are fascists.
We have the 2nd amendment to protect ourselves with while on our property or being threatened in public.
one think is fairly certain here. Trump will have good sleep tonight, same like he has previous nights. He doesn’t really care about all those pesky prols. You got shot, deal with it and move alone and praise the king
If you don’t like it, answer is clear – vote straight blue in midterm, don’t overthink
Clearly not murder but self-defense. I have watched videos from all angles. She stopped to block traffic. They asked her to stop and get out of the car. She refused. The agent walked all the way around the car while filming, (probably a mistake), but he came across the front of her car in plain sight so there is no doubt that she could see him. As he was near the corner of the car, but not past the front yet, she stepped on the gas and hit him. He immediately drew his weapon and fired three shots in rapid succession, due to the threat. In that very small amount of time, (watch at full speed rather than slow-mo), he had no way of knowing that she had possible turned her wheel and that he would quickly be out of mortal danger. If he had not drawn his weapon and fired it would have been a better outcome. If she had not stepped on the gas it would have been a better outcome. However, she did and he did, bad outcome. But I don’t blame him for defending himself.
It’s really sad this happened. She should not have died.
The video Mish posted does seem to show the officer jumping back out of the way of the vehicle as he gets his gun out to fire. Another video (not posted here I think) does show the women trying to provoke the officers, which is really fucking dumb.
Despite that, she should not have been shot.
This blog post aged poorly, Mish.
New video came out today, from a different angle.
I am the state (controlled only by my own morals), a statement by Louie the 14th, that was suspended by the US 1776 Declaration of Independence. The No Kings Party should now add No More Renee Good murders to their moniker. Congressman Eric Swalwell put it succinctly and nicely yesterday in the House Judiciary Committee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NigbaGHE-ag
It would help if the writer covered the issue without an incendiary title:
Trump’s ICE Gestapo Kills a US Citizen in Minneapolis
Another correct title coming up this afternoon
Your apology accepted in advance
In spite of all the so called analysis and videos, this post is just all emotion and hysteria. Using words like Gestapo really takes away the credibility of the writer. Mish seems to have lost the plot.
Not one person on here knows what happened but that doesn’t stop them from having such strong opinions. When people are using phrases like “it’s obvious from the video . . .”, they are already biased. Most people have no idea how they would react in this situation whether they are the victim or the shooter.
I’m making a special exception to my decision to no longer post anything here to offer a big FUCK YOU to Michael Shedlock for recklessly parroting liberal agitprop in the form of comparing US Federal law enforcement to the Gestapo. You are a vile POS
Sure thing bootlicker
well no one can ever accuse you of being clever or original
Tell that to the children of the Mrs Good that just had their mothers brains splattered all over their stuffed animals.
For the heinous crime of following one ICE officers orders while being confronted by the officer that summarily executed her.
Are you and your right wing nutbags going to execute Mish?
Have you read the definition of fascism and compared it to the actions of the Trump administration?
ICE agents are now a clear threat to many (some innocent) people and bystanders. Expect more incidents and outrage…
Someone needs to explain to those kids that their mother made her hatred of Trump her priority and not taking care of her children. She was not a good mother.
My post may be a heated insult but yours is a stew of emotional hysterics. These people could have protested in a legal way without directly interfering or hampering federal law enforcement. The truth is that leftists – particularly the politicians and behind the scenes intelligentsia are hoping for an outcome like this to try to exploit. The officer told her to get out of the car. Instead she gunned it and hit a federal officer who discharged his weapon. Rush rush rush to judgement because you hate trump or love illegals or whatever. If it’s a bad shoot the let all the evidence get weighed. And for the love of god don’t keep ginning up the crazies with more of this talk of Gestapo and Nazis
Mike, you have slip’d the surly bonds of earth and touched the face of God. Oh well, it happens.
I’ve been reading this blog for a bit and followed it as it shifted platforms. At that time, I had a healthy difference of opinion with the way Mike interpreted facts. I still do at times. And that’s healthy. However, seeing that there is base level of shared understanding of what America stands for is refreshing. The creeping authoritarianism has cemented that agreement more and more.
Thanks!
Bravo!
Well written.
Agent clearly instructed the activist to get out of the vehicle. Another agent hands on vehicle. You are past you get to do what you want at this point without possible repercussions.
It is tragic if she had made better decisions. ICE agents wouldn’t have been dealing with her or hyped up on adrenaline. If she hadn’t blocked traffic. If she had complied with the agent ICE instead of trying to drive off with one agent attached to her car.
Looked like he unholstered his weapon before vehicle started moving forward (Sorry he is not looking at her tires at that point).
ZeroHedge Update (1858):
The New York Post reports that Renee Nicole Good was an anti-ICE “warrior” and part of a network of left-wing activists who worked to “document and resist” ICE operations in Minnesota.
Good and her wife Rebecca, 40, who were raising the child together and sent the boy to Southside Family Charter School, a K-5 academy opened in 1972 which has from its inception been “unabashedly dedicated to social justice education,” according to co-founder Susie Oppenheim.
It was through her involvement in the school community that Good became involved in “ICE Watch” — a loose coalition of activists dedicated to disrupting ICE raids in the sanctuary city.
“From my understanding, she was involved in social justice … we are a tight-knit community and a lot of parents are [activists],” former Southside gym teacher Rashad Rich, who resigned from the school last month, told The Post. . . .
County worker Kristin Peter, 30, who was also at the vigil, said Renee was on the same ICE Watch team as one of her coworkers, and that she herself was attending a meeting of the group Thursday night.
NYPost’s report throws a wrench into the just a “driver” or just a “woman” narrative that some corporate media outlets ran earlier.
Renee Nicole Good, the woman shot and killed by ICE, was driving a Honda Pilot SUV that the Missouri Department of Revenue confirmed was registered with Missouri license plates. Business records show that Good operated a maintenance company in Kansas City, Missouri, called “B.Good Handywork LLC.”
One eyewitness described Good as “the main car in the protest, as I understand it. She was very successful in blocking traffic. She was doing exactly what she set out to do.”
Agent attached to car? Nice fantasy… She was ordered to leave and was complying slowly when executed.
Executed, my fellow American, for exercising her first and second amendment rights.
Relax, the Trump administration is going to conduct an investigation, and announced they won’t cooperate with the State or City’s attempt to do so.
Not sure what they will investigate, though. They (President, VP, DHS Secretary) have already told the public she was a criminal terrorist who tried to kill the officers and the shooting was in self-defense. Does anyone seriously think a federal investigator will find otherwise? Unless the investigator is an idiot, they know they would be instantly fired by if they concluded that Trump was wrong. The Gestapo characterization Mish makes rings true.
Fired? Heck, this pedophile protecting administration would execute them…
After redacting all pertinent information…
She was exiting the area as instructed, and at a slow creep. Once the first bullet hit her, involuntary trauma reflexes pushed her foot down hard pedal to the metal. If she hadn’t been shot she would have continued to creep forward and leave as instructed. Shooting officer should have yielded so she could comply. Said driver would have stopped if pedestrian injury was imminent.
“Who shot wonderful, innocent, wonderful, incredible, woman’ Ashli Babbitt.” – Donald J. Trump
“Uncertainty about Byrd’s identity created a new rallying cry — “who shot Ashli Babbitt?” — which Trump has brought up at recent rallies. Byrd’s name has been floating around right-wing websites, and he said in the at-times emotional interview Thursday that he and his family have received death threats, including racist threats.
“They talked about killing me, cutting off my head,” said Byrd. …”
I figured this would be a shitshow in comments. Am not disappointed. 410 comments! Great engagement for the site, though!
Gestapo? No further reading necessary. Your point is made. While you are at it, just remind everyone who is running the Gestapo. Possibly Hitler. Ohh no! How cruel.
Blame who caused the illegal immigration by not enforcing USA visa laws and having an open border policy costing USA tax payers their hard earned money and at times their lives.
Anyone who willfully interferes with a police operation is taking huge risks, that is not protesting but interfering. This was going to happen eventually with all of the encouragement of the pawns by the politicians (I don’t see the politicians taking such risks…..). I would have a hard time convicting an agent of manslaughter or anything more serious. If an agent orders you to stop and you refuse, you are driving a weapon and the police have full right to defend themselves. I would also like to see other angles of the video. The bullet hole looks like it came from in front of the vehicle. Also, agents do not scrutinize where the tire is pointed when defending themselves.
Penalty for interference isn’t death. ICE has zero authority to stop cars and pull out citizens. The bootlicking of government agents operating outside their remit is stunning for a crowd which hates the government.
They did not stop her car. She was blocking ice vehicles all day.
Then she turned her car sideways to block traffic
She was driving around all afternoon blocking ice from serving a warrant
At least get your facts straight
When stopped in my car by a government official do I…
a) do exactly what I am told to do by the official?
b) leave my window wound up and call my attorney?
c) attempt to leave the scene in my car, with officers in very close proximity?
d) listen to what the official says, and then inform him of my intention?
I’d pick D. I would NOT attempt to drive off, which then becomes a crime in itself.
Oh, an unnamed eyewitness. Sounds reliable.
It’s supposedly recorded on video.
Was this the actual incident you refer to, or another one which attempts to paint the incident in its light?
The situation, IMHO, was likely stressful, and fast moving. That is, approaching crisis, where clear thinking vanishes, and gut/instinct takes over.
One thing should be clear. AVOID CRISIS SITUATIONS AND DO NOT CONFRONT AN ARMED GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL.
“Cower in your home and fantasize about licking the boot”
That’s what you sound like
Whatever it is you are, it’s not the kind of person who helped make America great
Until he has killed or incarcerated everyone else he hates and come to your door?
I love my country but Trump is a fascist by definition and this killing is a direct result of his policies.
Resisting detainment with violence. Felony.
The vehicle accelerated at him, he pulled his gun, the vehicle hit him (glancing blow), he fired.
You can lie to yourself, but not those that watch the video closely.
Nice try!
40% of young American woman want to leave the country, permanently.
Is it any wonder? This poll was from last Nov. Probably higher now.
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/young-american-women-want-to-leave-canada-destination
That’s the best news I heard all day!!
Once woman figure out what’s in store for them under the “White Nationalist Christian MAGA Racist State” I’m think the number will approach 70%.
toodles!
No worries. This will accelerate the brownification of America by the cheap labor which will take your jobs.
That is the democratic parties plan all along dude
For the record, I got brown kids
Well, duh. Have you looked at American men lately?
You know Flingel I wish I had a comeback on that one but I don’t LOL
Hope you are well.
I love your posts
It keeps the boredom under control while I wait for the Great Implosion in derivatives.
They ain’t seen nuthin’ yet.
I’ve got news for you. Mark to market gets suspended ~ to protect the guilty.
Must be the ones depressed, hopped up on anti-depressants with 3 cats.
To me it looked like a straight up execution.
Living in a fascist country can be painful.
sounds scary!
Minneapolis’s children tucked away at home today & tomorrow.
Safe from Noem & her murderous agents.
Yesterday, I posted a comment similar to the following. It seems to be missing now. Perhaps I did something to delete it without knowing. Last time I viewed it, it had 18 likes and 3 dislikes.
I thought it was NOT an offensive post. Can someone tell me if it has been deleted for “cause” or what else may have happened to hide it? Thanks in advance. Mark Tichenor
I think I’m confused, but I’m not sure. Trump says, the ICE officer who fired the fatal shot is recovering in the hospital. What is he recovering from that required hospitalization.
Not being in his shoes, though, I don’t know what to think/say about what he did.
I’d like to think I’d have jumped out of the way without the shot.
Was he justified in shooting her? IDK. I’ll leave that to an inquiry. (Note, I’m guessing NOT every ICE member would have taken that same shot. I hope not, anyway.
It did not seem to me that shooting her made the difference in his survival. Nor did it seem, after he cleared her car, that she’d likely come back to get him.
Something like this was bound to happen though. It was just a matter of time and circumstance.
Without implying she deserved what she got.
She, not the officer put herself in harms way. Peaceful protesting to redress the government does not look like what many protesters are choosing to do.
A chain of cause was at play today, but each “event’ in the chain also had its own individual moment of choice.
Reply to self: After seeing the slow motion, it appears the officer in front of the car could have interpreted the car as coming toward him. If the driver was not intending to strike the officer, but was in the midst of a turn to the right, it is unfortunate.
The officer was able to avoid being struck (at least severely). His choice to shoot, especially what seems to be a second time through the window was a choice that could have been different. One argument could be the driver intended to strike any ICE officer she could reach. Perhaps, but I don’t by that.
IMO, this was a choice I hope I would not have made, myself. I wonder if every ICE officer would have shot her. How many officers on site drew their guns and fired?
I’m NOT condemning the Shooter. At least the first shot. This is a call that requires more analysis. I think the officer will be protected and cleared. I’ll not argue the outcome of this event.
Compared to how many drunk illegal alien dives have killed Americans?
Horrible.
I think we shold call this “Trump’s ICE-Capades”.
Hope to to many more events like this….right Captain Micheal Byrd?
I really cannot understate the significance of this moment.
I’ve long speculated that if we were going to have a second civil war, especially one that takes on a more explicit character as opposed to sporadic terror attacks, that the acute cause would be state and federal authorities pitted against each other over deportations in “sanctuary cities.”
The parallel to the first Civil War is the Fugitive Slave Act, which was a law that allowed federal marshals to recapture escaped slaves in the north and return them to the south. In practice, when federal marshals went to the north to enforce this law, they were resisted not only by activist protestors, but by local law enforcement on orders from municipal and state authorities.
The danger is in the breakdown of appropriate hierarchical power structures. It is well established that state authority is subordinate to federal authority within the United States. When state authorities actively pit their law enforcement against the feds they are making appeals to two separate power structures and have functionally factionalized into opposition forces, which creates the schism that can then manifest as civil war as there are now two defined and competing power structures appealing to authority.
There is further evidence to suggest that in the same way that the Trump admin appears to have been gradually acclimating the public to the need to invoke the Insurrection Act, the Democrats have likewise been gradually acclimating the public to the need to declare the Trump administration illegitimate and that they are retaking control by force.
The Left has long engaged in rhetoric intended to suggest that Trump is fascist, the end of Democracy, the next Hitler, etc. to lay the moral justification for hostile action against us. They have normalized violence against agents of the state as well as mere right-wing supporters of the administration. They have released seditious statements intended to foment disorder in the ranks, trigger a coup, or indicate that military staff who obey Trump’s orders will be subject to punitive measures should they return to power. They have produced numerous governors and mayors who openly defied federal authority. And they are now stating intention to order law enforcement under their command to resist law enforcement under federal command.
All of this suggests escalation to that final fracture point where two competing power/authority structures become clearly defined and conflict begins.
Further, the Democrat elite class is incentivized to take this gamble for a combination of personal and strategic reasons. Tim Walz, in the wake of this massive fraud scandal, has no political future as evidenced by his own dropping out of the race. He additionally is comparatively likely among prominent Democrats to actually be imprisoned due to his direct implication in this fraud scheme. Tim, therefore, is incentivized personally to risk conflict because success in such a conflict could completely save his hide from impending consequences. This same logic applies to other Democrats are comparatively high risk of punitive measures due to clear criminal conduct.
Then the Democratic establishment itself is incentivized to gamble on this if they determine that Trump’s reforms, mass remigration, etc. actually undermine their ability to realistically win elections. In other words, if Democrats know that it is true they cannot win an election fairly, particularly in a post-voter-ID or post-remigration world, then they may determine that it is better to gamble on high stakes conflict, victory in which would secure their ongoing dominance, as opposed to simply allowing Trump’s agenda to be completed and functionally losing their grip on power forever, which we have repeatedly stated is in fact our ultimate goal.
There are thus both personal elite-level incentives to gamble on high-stakes conflict, and system-wide incentives to do the same. These people are not moral. They do not care about “Democracy” in any meaningful conception of the word. They care about maintaining their own power and I think it would be naive to assume they are not willing to fight or kill to maintain that power. They have already demonstrated a clear willingness to do so.
And on the other side, the Trump admin cannot back away from this. If the administration were to give up and leave Minnesota for example, then the administration is shown to be impotent and all power shifts back to the Democrat establishment, where those involved in the Trump admin will almost certainly be imprisoned at best once the Left regains the Presidency. The Trump admin is thus also incentivized to not back down and to meet the conflict head on should Walz actually pull the trigger and order his forces to contest federal authority. Moreover, Trump is the kind of personality who would absolutely double down rather than pull back in this circumstance. The implication is that if the Democrats do cross this line, the conflict WILL happen.
And it should. Because we are in the right. We won the election. We have been operating within the law. And the Left cannot be allowed to continue to just unleash violence against the state because they are no longer getting their way; because they are no longer being allowed to pillage our nation.
The Democrats are playing a very dangerous game that has real potential to escalate to major conflict, but if they are going to force that confrontation we must meet it with overwhelming force. We are very much so at the point where invoking the Insurrection Act is both justified and necessary. The idea that a state governor can threaten to pit the national guard against federal agents and not suffer dire, seditious/treasonous consequences is unacceptable.
No quarter in Minnesota. Arrest Walz. Arrest every Somalian scammer. Deport everyone who doesn’t belong here. Strip citizenships. If this is the hill we die on so be it.
A very cogent summation. You put your argument into precise summations. So as not to plagiarize, I ask your permission to adopt your presentation. It’s sad we’ve come to this, but as our nation wrestles and struggles with who we want to be in this fracturing global system, we do need to be precise in our mission statement…which I consider our November 2025 National Security Strategy to be. Perfect? No! “Nobody’s perfec”…mom always used to say.
It’s been decades since we’ve seen a state act with this level of intransigence when Southern states fought racial integration. IIRC, the feds got involved then as well. Minneapolis has done this to itself. FAFO.
Going after the employers of illegals would cause more self deportation than all the ICE in the world could actively deport.
You know who deported(to his credit) more illegal aliens with a criminal record than any president in the last 3 decades? Hint it rhymes with your mama
Now where was all the outrage then?
Why was there no media coverage of this back then?
Why are you so outraged now but not then?
Why did you not complain about Gestapo jackbooted thugs back then?
What changed?
The media is to blame for inflaming this situation to the point of creating an environment that led to tragic consequences yesterday.
And those on the fringe now thinks it ok to step in between a law enforcement activity that other than it being ice related they have no fucking idea what it is about.
But now that they have been programmed by the media and their social media friends to be angry, they think they have the right to do that.
Then too many of you come out with gotcha retorts and wild accusations and apparently are now experts in video analysis and criminal law.
And you wonder why I bring up virtue signaling ?
The car was hardly moving, even if he thought he was in any danger the officer could easily have stepped out of the way. Shooting the Lady didn’t stop the car anyway, it still carried on past the officer, proof the wheels were pointing down the road.
The ICE officer endangered everyone on the scene with bullet ricochets and her sudden acceleration and uncontrolled vehicle trajectory during the convulsions of her death.
Worse ~ this officer has galvanized resistance to ICE agents and clearly demonstrated the Trump administration as authoritarian and fascist.
The ‘T’ administration madness rumbles on… Expect as we get more into their term an executive order from Donald stating all Democratic voters are terrorist and won’t be allowed to vote due to national security reasons. Nothing would surprise me any more!
You know who deported(to his credit) more illegal aliens with a criminal record than any president in the last 3 decades? Hint it rhymes with your mama
Now where was all the outrage then?
Why was there no media coverage of this back then?
Why are you so outraged now but not then?
Why did you not complain about Gestapo jackbooted thugs back then?
What changed?
The media is to blame for inflaming this situation to the point of creating an environment that led to tragic consequences yesterday.
And those on the fringe now thinks it ok to step in between a law enforcement activity that other than it being ice related they have no fucking idea what it is about.
But now that they have been programmed by the media and their social media friends to be angry, they think they have the right to do that.
Then too many of you come out with gotcha retorts and wild accusations and apparently are now experts in video analysis and criminal law.
And you wonder why I bring up virtue signaling ?
There is no outrage about deporting immigrants. Obama did it very well with no citizens executed in the process. The outrage is that the government endangering citizens while deporting some law abiding immigrants (sometimes legal immigrants) by snatching them out of courthouses where they willfully appear to progress their status.
You first sentence is either a lie or you are not paying attention.
And were democrats funding NGOs to get people to go around cities to block ice from doing their job back then like what just happened ?
Obama did it very well because the media did not make it an issue like they are doing now.
Again, answer the question were you upset about it then? Now?
Were they jack booted thugs back then ?
This is simple. Ms Good should have been allowed to drive home, I don’t believe she was a dangerous criminal in violation of any law. She definitely wasn’t George Floyd.. What harm would that have done to stand down? Armed thugs gunning down innocent people is simply wrong. This time, Trump needs to be removed, maybe the next congress will act.
Your opinions and beliefs are irrelevant.
To a fascist? Of course they are, you are sooooooo superior.
LMFAO. She should have not died but I’m sorry pal she spent her day driving around blocking ice from serving warrants
No, she should not have been allowed to drive home
Typical liberal democrat thinking today. Break the law multiple times all day, but oh I get to drive home
You idiots hold know one accountable for their actions
Play stupid games…win stupid prizes
I think, if Ms Good was just trying to “experience Minneapolis”, a protest with armed federal agents present would be something to avoid. Despite her lack of judgement, the death penalty doesn’t seem appropriate, and I hope a jury administers justice.
Mish is way off on this post. The deceased was acting illegally, blocking ICE vehicles and harassing ICE agents. The ICE agents went to arrest her for her illegal actions. One ICE agent attempts to remove her from her vehicle. The deceased then attempted to evade arrest, hitting the ICE agent and causing an injury to his foot at the beginning of her evasive tactics.
Mish attempts (in Part IV) to demonstrate that the ICE agent over reacted by showing a slow motion rendition of the deceased’s actions. Slow motion is not how the ICE agent perceived that event. The event happened rapidly without his ability to view slow motion of her actions. He was injured and feared for his safety. Evading arrest by driving a vehicle initially directed at law enforcement is a dangerous practice. This ICE agent had previously been injured in a violent incident with a leftist protester so he had reason to fear the violent tactics of the left.
Mish also omits the lack of law enforcement from the local police. The local police stood down the entire day while the left’s thugs harassed and impeded their action. The deceased’s vehicle was illegally parked in the street, blocking ICE’s actions. The local police should have arrested this woman for her illegal actions.
Great points M M………
Oh ow, she hurt my foot I should kill her.
Great argument you should be his lawyer.
Let’s see your bravery when someone runs over your foot while you attempt to arrest them. Let’s see how you react in real time to vehicle that came at you.
way to take the whole event from beginning to end out of context, and basically reality
But hey you would have handled it differently because?????
Mish, when there is unchecked extremism on one side of the pendulum there will surely be extremism when it swings the other way. ICE in very dangerous territory these days wherever they go. I can understand making some mistakes. If the agent did wrong as you say he should be prosecuted but the situation surely gets worse before any better.
ICE pulled up to a local Mexican restaurant two days and basically terrorized the owners (fully legal) and the customers.
The large female agent among them literally wore jack boots!
One of the waitresses took pictures, and holy shit these ICE agents are scary!
Sure wish I was there while meeting with my congressman!
When I went for dinner after hearing about the incident I was surprised that there was no wait and what is a small, high quality place was basically a ghost town.
Keep in mind that 95%+ of customers are white in this area, and even white people are scared of Trumps boots on the ground.
Love your country but fear Trump!
“This all stops… when enough of us say no” It’s past time to stop this administration by whatever means necessary. From top to bottom they are criminals. The Vietnam protests all across the country were about a war against another country, this “war” is against Americans in America.
So where do all the illegal aliens that are convicted murderers and rapists and felonies come into play in your “war on Americans analysis?”
By due process, rapists and murderers are pursued and arrested by local police, state police and the FBI. ICE may be effect if disarmed with only a small cadre of supervisors with access to firearms. There are non-lethal methods of taking suspects into custody, especially on the street.
Local police?
(1) LMAO the MN Police were told to stand down!!
(2) sometimes you can disarm without violence, and sometimes you can’t
(3) Non lethal doesn’t always work and in some peoples peace love and reality fantasy that can get yourself killed.
Good luck with your FBI interviews, pokercat.
Doubt it, 1,000 FBI agents are busy redacting the Epstein files. They have priorities and protecting Trump from his crimes is more important.
Elections have consequences.
I’m going to take a totally different view on this, I’m not American but 100% put the blame on the Democrats and the Left for these situations happening. For some reason the American Left believes that if you can sneak into the US and by doing this clearly breaking the law you are called an immigrant and should be allowed to stay. They take this to the level where they are offended if you call these people that willfully break US immigration laws illegal immigrants. That name, even though it is true offends them to the point that they insist you refer to them as “undocumented individuals” in their minds Flagrant disregard for US laws is acceptable.
You have the Left standing up and protesting and screaming at law enforcement for doing their job enforcing the law and arresting and removing people who again, have willfully broken the law. In their minds US law does not apply to them and the Left will do anything they can to obstruct law enforcement, again, from just doing their job enforcing the law. Why do they have to send ICE, because these people who are illegally in the Country refuse to leave, what are they supposed to do? “oh well, you’re not leaving, I guess you can stay”.
I would ask anyone of these people on the Left who scream at law enforcement, obstruct them, verbally abuse them and even attack them for doing their job of enforcing the law to go to any nation on this planet, go through customs and when the foreign Custom agents ask them what their purpose is for entering their country, tell them you decided you are moving to their Country even though you have no Visa, no immigration documents etc. You would immediately be denied entry, spun around and put back on the plane. For some reason, the US Left feels that the people that broke US immigration laws and snuck into the Country are the victims and the law enforcement that is forced to physically round these people up because they are refusing to leave, those law enforcement are the evil ones, the enemy, or in Mish’s words, the Gestapo.
Was the shooting justified, NO, but when you have Politicians, Judges, and 50% of the Country, demonizing, villainizing, willfully obstructing law enforcement members that are only doing their job which is now 10x more difficult thanks to 50% of the Country, the media and Politicians painting them to be the Gestapo, this is going to happen!
Well said. Expect more downvotes than up.
It goes with what I said yesterday. There are many people to blame for what happened yesterday and the heightened level of alert and threat with ICE when compared to lets say the Obama Admin who probably deported more illegally aliens than Trump has done to date.
Why? Because the democrat controlled media did not put it outthere in the news every day like it has done from day 1 here which is inciting people like this woman to feel its ok and not a danger to scream at those officers for several times throughout the day then turn her car into the middle of the road to block an ICE warrant on a person she has no idea if he is accused or convicted of murder or rape or a violent felony. It is just assumed his papers are not in order.
And I am leaning towards the shooting was not justified.
Downvote away all the hell you want but this was NOT an isolated incident and many people are to blame for this
Wrong there is only one person to blame that is the asshole with his finger on the trigger. He didn’t fire out of fear, his ego caused her death.
The whole situation was initiated by everything that has been going on lately, pretty much since trump has been elected
Including ICE agents being attacked at least a 1/2 dozen times trying to do their job
Nah. It’s simple. The out of shape government agent who was at the side of the vehicle executed a American. The rest is BS and strawmanning.
Brillian analysis
Well, in a jiffy we should see “AI generated” videos of the event from the shooter’s POV.
But that won’t stop anyone from having a secure opinion based on frame by frame slow motion videos. Just like what the shooter saw. When he wasn’t examining the angle of the vic’s front wheels.
When you go to slow mo to figure things out, you’ve dropped your license to dump on any participant.
Anyway, for the moment, I vote for this being, to some extent at least, an Ashley Babbitt situation. Reality exceeded the shooter’s competence level. Bad scene. Gonna happen. Very sad.
No one in the comments here and on X brings up the subject of shooting in a crowd. Heck, apparently one of the cops was hit by a ricochet!
Well, I interrupted watching a most realistic movie, “John Wick 17”, so I’ll get back to that.
“A regime of Terror Capitalism imposed on subjects across the Americas to protect economic plunder by a decadent class of Zionist tech plutocrats”
There might be truth in it, but isn’t it antisemitic to mention it or even quote it? I mean before any statement is made, even before addressing the true/false question, shouldn’t we first make sure we comply the the rules?
One Hundred Percent. I don’t even think Israel had anything to do with this.
What did she die for, Somalies? What a waste.
Thats just an ignorant comment.
“A sensible plan is to deport the criminals, shut the border, improve the legal process, give priority to parents and spouses of US citizens, give priority to those here the longest, and give priority to those working.”
I give this a conditional yes, muddied only by the anchor baby incentive. We can’t “reward” people to breach the border illegally, immediately birth a child, and then all of a sudden be “legal immigrants”. Citizenship should be an earned privilege, not a legal-technicality-based right. Otherwise, you get an extraordinarily bad situation, like they are currently experiencing in most European countries.
With that change, I give this an emphatic, “Yes!”
Slow down there JeffD, stay in your lane now. You are making way to much sense around here.
Don’t you know, illegal alien convicted murderers and rapists with other felonies on their record are allowed to come in this country and apparently we are not allowed to apprehend them and all because mostly a bunch of paid protestors and white virtue signaling liberals will complain very strongly about it.
Well until they move into their neighborhood.
And while that does NOT justify what happened yesterday, that IS what is leading to situations like yesterday
I’m going for the downvote record on this one JeffD, just you don’t downvote me now
“bunch of paid protestors”
Please tell me where I can get that job, I think I’d enjoy it. What’s the pay, where do I apply, what are the qualifications? Is it an anywhere remote job or do I have to report to an office? Come on don’t keep this imaginary job locked up in your obviously troubled mind, share the facts.
Just look in many social media sites.
If you do not think their are paid protestors out there today in MN you do not have a fucking clue of the what is going on in America
The George Floyd riots 1 then twitter now X had video of the same guy being in 3 different cities in 4 days of rioting.
Oh yeah , he was paying for that because he is such a concerned citizen.
OMG you liberals are in denial of what you have created
I think a brain washed NPC army, incapable of realizing there are two sides to every story, are overwhelming the paid protesters at this point.
He really thinks there are no paid protestors? Is he or she that clueless?
They have been in NYC all day
This is what I mean about the left today. They are fake liberals and they have no idea the stuff their party is doing.
There are absolutely paid protestors, though they are a tiny fraction of the throngs of NPCs they help to rally.
More and more of them. More and more groups of them
But thank you for pointing this out
Proof these fake liberals and pretend republicans have no fucking idea what this democratic party is up to
They should be registered under FARA
Google PSL. Party of Socialism and Liberation I think its called.
You really do not think there are paid protestors in America today?
If you don’t believe that you are the typical liberal I am talking about
“Should we deport everyone here illegally, even if they have been here five years, have a job, have citizen children, and have no criminal background, at a cost of hundreds of billions of dollars, resulting in labor shortages and huge inflation?”
Figure out how much tax money they’ve used. They can stay if they pay it back.
If I felt like it I’d write how a person can think that way and not be a confirmed bigot. Either that or whoever let them in illegally should go to jail. Either one would be OK, either pay back the money or whoever let you in goes to jail, including Biden and Majorkas, all the ICE agents and all the judges. If anyone gave you government(tax) money and you weren’t eligible they go to jail too. OH God, of all people, Mike Shedlock says deporting labor would cause inflation? The guy who debated inflation vs. deflation? ALSO, one could debate using the words “illegally” and “no criminal background” as harmonious conditions in the same sentence.
Clearly, anyone coming to the USA and taking out more than they put in after five years (the green card period) needs to go.
Explain how an illegal immigrant working and paying taxes takes out more than he puts in. I once unknowingly hired an illegal immigrant. He paid federal income tax, state income tax, SS tax and Medicare tax, he never received any of it back. I fired him when he presented a “new” social security card and I realized he was illegal with forged papers. I was sorry to see him go as he was a good automotive technician, a good worker and just a nice family guy.
did they ALWAYS work and pay taxes or was there a period where they lived on welfare? That’s one way. You can also get money while working and paying taxes.
Add up the local, state, and Federal income tax paid, which is probably around $3000/yr for this guy, and subtract off all the benefits/handouts his family received during each year. It’s a simple calculation.
The John Hopkins analysis is spot on. How is someone to distinguish an ICE agent from any kidnapper without identification? And how should they then deal with contradictory orders?
That is in general – in this case it is clearly murder. My interpretation is that someone got a little mad with power and believing they can get away with anything at the moment. How people support the state to do these things is beyond me.
Nonsense. The deceased was clearly impeding ICE agents. She was not an innocent bystander. She had been harassing ICE agents most of the day. The reason that she came to MN was to obstruct ICE activity.
You could make your same arguments for uncover police activities except that under cover police activities are really covert. The leftist protesters track ICE activity and respond with harassment, intimidation, and obstruction such as blocking ICE vehicles.
Hmm I seem to remember something about first amendment rights of free speech, freedom of assembly, and the right to redress the govt. Maybe not the country you want to live it?
I don’t understand the fealty, the expression of godlike worship toward the illegal aliens by so many people. It’s not just being on one side of an issue, it’s slavering worship. Why was she even there?
Was she an illegal alien? Do we know that for a fact?
I’m talking about people, like her, who think any action taken against them, even Somali fraudsters or convicted murderers, or any benefit denied them is the most heinous act any human could do. Politicians get outraged but they accrue some personal benefit, like votes or party standing.
Somalis defrauded billions, Mr. Trump wants to stop it/do something about it, and the local politicians go apeshit along with lots of other people. I don’t get it. It has to be irrational hysterical TDS themed Whatever-Trump-Does-I-Must-Oppose, except it probably takes money from them and they have to feign compassion for the poor Somalis to try and keep their tax money kickback scheme going.
And now this is their attempt to get this off the media radar
That fraud is happening in multiple states and its includes Medicaid and SBA
And WORST of all this money is not even going to Americans that need it it is getting taken away from them but liberals will defend that too
There will be no problem if TRUMP’S ICE blow the whole car up with the DRONE.
Ouch!
Do not be surprised when “accused liberals” are summarily executed by drone given this fascist administration and MAGA thugs thirst for intolerance, brutality and blood.
If you carry a cell phone, you can easily be executed by Trumps “Department of War”. Simply for defending your former right to protest your former right to “Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness”.
Fascist propaganda Newscorp’s unit “Fox News” will cheer this and more killing while waving the flag.
Mish,
Is it time to post an article that defines what a fascist regime is and compare the Trump administration to that standard?
Do Biden while you’re at it.
Excellent point. And don’t laugh. When they do finally change some of these over the top attemted collars, drones are going to play a big part in this
Mister Mish, even if the smug white liberal shithole Minnesota law enforcement investigators state he following an “unlawful” written procedure about placing himself in front of the vehicle, the Dept of Homeland Security lawyers will state he acted lawfully based on her dangerous and reckless behavior.
She was ordered out of the vehicle (as she blocked the road along with the driver of the adjacent white vehicle), yet drove forward in his direction.
See below the one major SCOTUS ruling that would apply.
Also, the driver used a lot more deadly force than Ashley Babbit did. Did the Capitol Police officer see a gun or deadly weapon in Babbit’s hand ?
Plumhoff v. Rickard (2014): This U.S. Supreme Court case involved a high-speed police chase that ended with officers firing multiple shots into the driver’s vehicle. The driver had led police on a long, dangerous pursuit and, after being boxed in, accelerated his vehicle while an officer was nearby. ***The Supreme Court ruled the officers’ use of deadly force was reasonable due to the grave public safety risk posed by the driver’s reckless behavior. ***
Did you read the contradictory orders she was given, by people that do not identify themselves as “police”? How is it weird that someone would not act precisely according to contradictory orders right away? And is that then ground enough for the death penalty?
Creep.
Prediction: either the state will fold under federal fiscal pressure to drop the case OR the feds use the “middle finger” statute 28 usc 1442 and remove the case to federal court where it dies, just like this victim.
This victim is as likely to get justice as the only person to die during J6, Ashli Babbitt, who was much less of a tangible threat not being in a 3,000 lb suv at the time, unarmed, and shot from an ambush position.
No way do you want this ICE agent go before a Woke jury. It will be the reverse of an OJ (Simpson) Jury. That Woke jury already decided he is guilty before the case started.
The Feds will reference case law like the one below. She and the driver of the adjacent white vehicle blocked the road. ICE asked her to exit the vehicle since she was obstructing their vehicle. She refused and drove forward toward the agent in front.
They will claim dangerous and reckless behavior, while the smug white liberal shithole Minnesota investigators will claim she drove forward and then made a sharp right turn because she felt threatened. They will state the ICE agent knowingly acted unlawful regardless if he followed procedures.
Plumhoff v. Rickard (2014): This U.S. Supreme Court case involved a high-speed police chase that ended with officers firing multiple shots into the driver’s vehicle. The driver had led police on a long, dangerous pursuit and, after being boxed in, accelerated his vehicle while an officer was nearby. ***The Supreme Court ruled the officers’ use of deadly force was reasonable due to the grave public safety risk posed by the driver’s reckless behavior. ***
so, if there is a risk of a “Woke” jury murder should go unpunished? I think that is strange logic.
Ashli Babbitt should have never been in the position to go through that partition. Had the Capitol police defended themselves on the steps of the capitol building this never would have happened. Those protesters attacking the police with weapons, an actual threat to their life, should have been shot…riot ended.
Philip Zimbardo talked about this type of behavior In his book The Lucifer Effect.
“Perhaps the most notable real-world example of the Lucifer Effect is the infamous Stanford Prison Experiment conducted by Philip Zimbardo himself in 1971. In this experiment, ordinary, psychologically healthy college students were randomly assigned to play either prisoners or guards in a simulated prison environment. Within just a few days, the students assigned as guards began to exhibit abusive and authoritarian behaviors, whereas those assigned as prisoners exhibited signs of severe stress and hopelessness. The experiment had to be cut short due to the disturbing levels of cruelty and dehumanization.”
“It calls for a systemic examination of institutions like prisons, the military, and even corporations, where a high degree of power disparity and strict hierarchy exists. These environments can often breed abusive behaviors, especially if accountability measures are lax.”
“People should be held responsible for their actions, but we must also hold systems accountable for creating conditions conducive to such behavior.”
We need more heroes
In his 2008 TED Talk, “The Psychology of Evil,” Zimbardo defines heroism as taking a personal risk for the common good while others remain passive.
“It’s taking a little action day by day that makes the world better,” Zimbardo says, “starting with your family, your school, your community and, ultimately, your nation.”
Bravo!
+100
Wow, this one has brought everyone out.
I am reminded of two previous incidents. One was the Kent State shootings in I suppose about year 1969. The university kids had been rioting and causing trouble over the Viet Nam War for years, and finally some of them were shot. I think President Nixon’s administration did what it could to protect the police involved. It seemed to sober everyone up. I think the kids realized after that, that they were fooling with serious business.
I am not saying, by the way, that with the benefit of hindsight, the Viet Nam War was a good idea. As I understand it, it was initiated by President Kennedy to help the Catholic hierarchy left behind by the French when they abandoned the place, and had the effect of forcing the majority Buddhists into the arms of the Communists. Kennedy probably wouldn’t have been stupid enough to take it as far as it went under Johnson, who was no doubt doing it to help American arms manufacturers.
The other incident was a much more recent shooting of a foolish Australian woman by an African “policeman” in the employ of some American city. This lady was foolish enough to think that the police were there to protect the public, and apparently moved rather forcefully towards the police car, to be shot by an African who should never have been allowed to carry a gun or wear a uniform. In my opinion, he should have been returned whence he came, and the person who gave him the gun should have been charged with the murder. But because the system has to blame someone and not itself, he is now doing time for it.
I don’t have any confidence that I could understand all the arguments about angle of fire and who was standing where, and I doubt if most of the people who have such strong opinions about it know what they are talking about, either. People make assumptions based on their idea of which is the good side and which is the bad side. My view is that government is successful organized crime in the first place, and that any improvement in civilization will come from our recognizing that.
Machiavelli did us a great favor by pointing out some of the facts of government power in “The Prince.” Since then, the pathetic excuses in the universities have just been confusing the issue. We should recognize that they themselves are one part of the government, an element of the part that exercises the government’s power of deception.
The Prince is one of the best books ever. However, it is amoral (not immoral, just to be clear), in that it describes what an actor should do to successfully stay in power, or to win power. It explicitly disregards the ethical side of the equation. Sometimes it does mention ethical considerations in that if you’re not willing to do act Y or Z, you shouldn’t start the whole campaign because it will fail. But always from the perspective of winning power.
Amen. As Mish would say, thanks for reading.