Don’t Miss a Post. Subscribe now.

Two Fed Presidents Signal Caution on Rate Hikes, But Not Until the Damage is Done

Rate hike odds from CME Fedwatch

A Meaningless Caution

The Wall Street Journal reports Two Fed Officials Make Case for Caution With Future Interest Rate Raises

OK, but look at their rationale and the timeframe, emphasis mine.

Fed Vice Chairwoman Lael Brainard noted how previous rate increases, together with anticipated further rate increases, will slow the economy in ways that can’t be observed yet during a speech Monday at a conference of business economists in Chicago.

It will take time for the cumulative effect of tighter monetary policy to work through the economy and to bring inflation down,” she said. “The moderation in demand due to monetary-policy tightening is only partly realized so far.”

Earlier Monday, Chicago Fed President Charles Evans said under his current outlook for the economy, it would be appropriate for the central bank to pause rate increases at slightly more than 4.5% by next March and then to assess how the economy was reacting

Policy Acts With a Lag

Rate hikes, cuts, QE, and QT act with a lag. And more importantly, current  tightening will slow the economy in ways that can’t be observed.

Let me finish that sentence: in ways that can’t be observed until it’s too late.

Despite the lag effect, and despite the fact that inflation was already out of control, the Fed kept expanding QE all the way to March of 2022.

The only reason I can come up with for their major policy errors is the Fed announced QE would last until March of 2022, so it lasted until March of 2022.

Now the Fed seems to have latched on to 4.50 percent as it target, and the repeated message is the Fed will get there.

I am positive the Fed will have overdone things if it gets to 4.5% by March. 

Fed Pivot?

Many are counting on a Fed pivot to save the stock market. But if the Fed does pivot, the likely reason would be a major credit dislocation or currency crisis.

Otherwise, the Fed seems determined to carry this through. 

If so, the best we can hope out of this is a long but mild recession coupled with a stock market decline on the S&P 500 of 50 percent or so with the Nasdaq off 67 percent or more, with a housing bust that last for years.

The only saving grace in this mess is that I do not foresee a massive jump in the unemployment rate due to lingering shortages from Covid and millions of boomer retirements.

Add it up and you get a Long Period of Weak Growth, Whether or Not It’s Labeled Recession

For discussion of the stock market, please see If Unemployment Levels Remain Low, How Far Can the Stock Market Decline?

This post originated at MishTalk.Com.

Thanks for Tuning In!

Please Subscribe to MishTalk Email Alerts.

Subscribers get an email alert of each post as they happen. Read the ones you like and you can unsubscribe at any time.

If you have subscribed and do not get email alerts, please check your spam folder.

Mish

Subscribe to MishTalk Email Alerts.

Subscribers get an email alert of each post as they happen. Read the ones you like and you can unsubscribe at any time.

This post originated on MishTalk.Com

Thanks for Tuning In!

Mish

Comments to this post are now closed.

46 Comments
Newest
Oldest Most Voted
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
3 years ago
M2 is mud pie. Total Checkable Deposits tells the story.
Total Checkable Deposits (DISCONTINUED) (TCDNS) | FRED | St. Louis Fed (stlouisfed.org)
See also the “demand for money” as Dr. Philip George posits: “The Riddle of Money Finally Solved”
The riddle of money, finally solved (philipji.com)
The expansion of our “means-of-payment” money is unparalleled.
Link: George Garvy:
Deposit Velocity and Its Significance (stlouisfed.org)
“Obviously, velocity of total deposits, including time deposits, is considerably
lower than that computed for demand deposits alone. The precise difference
between the two sets of ratios would depend on the relative share of time deposits
in the total as well as on the respective turnover rates of the two types of
deposits.”
It will take years to ameliorate this monetary policy blunder.
hmk
hmk
3 years ago
It boils down to what is the price of lending money. A bond to be worth buying or a bank making a loan needs to have interest on their money to be higher than the rate of inflation. If this causes problems so be it. That is how free market capitalism is supposed to work. Interest rate suppression has caused all sorts of speculative investment and propped up crappy business’s that would not be in business without interest rate suppression. Its called creative destruction where crappy business models go bankrupt and new and better business’s replace them. This is how economic growth occurs and wealth is generated. Nobody was complaining and begging the fed to raise rates when they were suppressed below where they should have been. This whining is so the wealthy can continue to get richer at the expense of everyone else. The fed has done more damage to the economy than is imaginable and they need to be reigned in so they don’t f us up again in the future. They have propagated the wealth gap to levels unseen in history, the stuff revolutions are made of.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
3 years ago
Reply to  hmk
You have to retain cognitive dissonance
capacity, like Walter Isaacson described Albert Einstein’s ability: to hold two
thoughts in your mind simultaneously – “to be puzzled when they conflicted, and
to marvel when he could smell an underlying unity”. It’s also like Athenian
philosopher Plato — whose “first fruits of his youth infused with hard
work and love of study” said: “We seem to find that the ideal of
knowledge is irreconcilable with experience”.
In almost every instance in which John Maynard
Keynes wrote the term bank in his bible: “The General Theory of Employment,
Interest and Money”, it is necessary to substitute the term nonbank in order to
make Keynes’ statement correct.
Take the “Marshmallow Test”: (1) banks create new money (macro-economics), and
incongruously (2) banks loan out the savings that are placed with them
(micro-economics).
See Steve Keen: “Banks don’t “intermediate loans”, they “originate loans”.
The ten graphs which show how Britain became a wholly owned subsidiary of the City of London (and what we can do about it) – New thinking for the British economy (opendemocracy.net)
Thus, the BOE is right by another empirical technique. The Bank of England:
Money creation in the modern economy | Bank of England
Working Paper No. 529 “Banks are not intermediaries of loanable funds —
and why this matters” –Zoltan Jakab and Michael Kumhof May 2015
BOE: “Money creation in practice differs from some popular misconceptions —
banks do not act simply as intermediaries, lending out deposits that savers
place with them, and nor do they ‘multiply up’ central bank money to create new
loans and deposits. The amount of money created in the economy ultimately
depends on the monetary policy of the central bank”
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
3 years ago

George Garvy: “Experience shows that
a varying volume of money spending may be supported by a constant stock of
money and, conversely, experience also teaches us that the money supply may
change significantly while the rate of spending remains almost unchanged. Thus,
total money spending in relation to money balances—technically, “transactions
velocity”—is an important element in assessing changes in the credit situation
and in business conditions.”

Interest is the price of loan-funds [the free market’s deterministic
clearing rate]. The price of money is the reciprocal of the generalized price-level
[the FRB_NY’s “trading desks” bailiwick].

If you look at the old “Total Checkable Deposit” figures (the “means-of-payment” money supply subject to required reserves), you’ll notice a stark, unparalleled, expansion in the money stock.
Total Checkable Deposits (DISCONTINUED) (TCDNS) | FRED | St. Louis Fed (stlouisfed.org)
It’s no happenstance that it will take a 2-3 year period of zero money growth to bring inflation down to tolerable levels.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
3 years ago
Reply to  Salmo Trutta
M1 is through the roof past 2 years. with no slow down. see shadow stats for back up. and FED to back up shadow stats. no deflation, no recession. this is an inflationary boom.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
3 years ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
Yes. Powell destroyed deposit classifications so as to hide his monetary blunder.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
The love life of a Diamond hands ape.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
“Honey, remember how many times you told me you hated this house?”
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
“Yes”
“Well, it’s time to paint, maybe that’ll help”
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Interest rates will stay high or go higher until inflation comes down more.
Inflation is not going to come down much as long as food and energy prices stay high.
The Fed can lower demand for discretionary items, but people will keep eating and keep using energy. The Fed will have trouble lowering demand for either of those items.
And we are heading into an energy supply crunch, so there will remain upward pressure on energy prices for the foreseeable future.
In September, OPEC+ managed to increase production by 170,000 bpd, far short of the 650,000 in increases that were supposed to happen.
OPEC’s 13 countries produced 29.75 million b/d, a rise of 190,000 b/d from August, while Russia and eight other allies added 13.26 million b/d, down 20,000 b/d.
The September performance was aided by sizable gains from Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Libya, which more than offset losses from long-struggling Angola and Nigeria, which hit their lowest in the 34-year history of the Platts survey.
As a result, the gap between the group’s quotas and actual production remained a sizable 3.6 million b/d, roughly the same as in August, the survey found. Iran, Libya, and Venezuela are exempt from quotas.

Russia, under harsh western sanctions that are set to ratchet up in December, is the biggest laggard to its quota, with its September production at 9.77 million b/d—about 1.26 million b/d below target.

Traditional buyers in sanctioning countries have cut imports from Russia. It has redirected some volumes to Asian markets including China and India but is unable to fully reroute these supplies.

Saudi Arabia, which co-chairs the OPEC+ alliance with Russia, pumped 11.02 million b/d, close to its quota and an increase of 100,000 b/d from August, supported by strong exports and ongoing high levels of crude burn.

OPEC+ is now set to actually cut production in November. SPR releases end in November. And new sanctions on Russia begin in December.
Higher oil prices are coming eventually because oil inventories are about to start declining even faster than they already have over the last two years. And those rapidly shrinking inventories are going to lead to higher oil prices. Which are going to help keep inflation rates up.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  PapaDave
“The Fed can lower demand for discretionary items, but people will keep eating and keep using energy. The Fed will have trouble lowering demand for either of those items.”
This also concerns me, as far as how much of inflation is supply vs demand, OPEC just threw as an ugly curve ball this week, Putin’s war as well, global droughts aren’t going to help.
PapaDave
PapaDave
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
Yep. I can’t stop OPEC from restricting supply to support prices. I can’t stop Putin from continuing his invasions. And I can’t stop global warming and climate change.
I simply accept “what is”. And then invest accordingly.
MPO45
MPO45
3 years ago
Big news today is the board of directors at pollo loco went loco and announced $1.50 dividend per share. I picked up shares at $10 ish. Good return and trades options. Could become the next Starbucks of chicken as demographics change over time. will hold long term until buyout, growth or bankruptcy.
Christoball
Christoball
3 years ago
Reply to  MPO45
Every time I hear someone pushing a chicken joint; it reminds me of Boston Chicken in the 90’s. There is no innovation in chicken joints.
It is interesting to hear the talk in this December 1999 article right before the Dot Com bubble burst.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
Felix_Mish
Felix_Mish
3 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
404
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
“The only saving grace in this mess is that I do not foresee a massive jump in the unemployment rate due to lingering shortages from Covid and millions of boomer retirements.”
We’ll see.
“Technology giant Intel plans to cut 20% of its staff, Bloomberg reported Tuesday night citing unnamed sources familiar with the proposal, making the California-based chipmaker the latest company to reassess its headcount as employers fear the economy could slide into recession.
Intel could reportedly cut more than 22,000 of its 113,700 employees (roughly 20%), Bloomberg reported, following a disappointing company financial forecast in July it blamed on a “sudden and rapid” economic decline”
Matt3
Matt3
3 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
Maybe the job losses will be primarily in white collar jobs. In most businesses, office staffing is way to high. This is all unproductive overhead.
You can tell by the remote workers. If you have a group that doesn’t need to be around, you may not need them at all.
Matt3
Matt3
3 years ago
Inflation isn’t going to be cured without a change in the supply side or big job losses. Workforce wages are going to continue to run through the economy and push up prices.
We are not able to hire and MUST keep our current workforce. It’s a competitive environment for people. We are looking at a second wage increase for this year that will raise our hourly cost and additional 8.80%. That will be over 13% for the year.
I don’t understand why inflation is deemed as just for the Fed to handle. They have the worst tool – demand destruction. We should be looking at increasing supply. Supply of energy and of workers. We can’t keep giving able bodied adults the option to not work.
shamrock
shamrock
3 years ago
All the FED efforts over the years to stimulate inflation never worked, it just caused high returns in stocks, bonds, and housing. So the reverse is probably also true, efforts to reduce inflation will not work but instead will cause losses in assets. Especially in the current situation with supply and demand out of whack. With every bit of demand reduction the higher interest rates induce they also make it more expensive to create new supply.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
“Rate hikes, cuts, QE, and QT act with a lag. And more importantly, current tightening will slow the economy in ways that can’t be observed.”
This is my worry.
I really wish the Fed used less crude metrics.
Carl_R
Carl_R
3 years ago
Reply to  MarkraD
There are lots of small effects that are hard to observe, but the overall effect can be observed, once they work their way through the economy.
MarkraD
MarkraD
3 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
One of which I suspect is the effect of higher rates on small caps, and much more so on small businesses.
One friend’s business relies almost solely on consumer finance, he’s been making insane money for the last five years, they’re backlogged and can’t hire enough help, within a year he won’t be so lucky.
Doug78
Doug78
3 years ago
Oh, we’d be alright if the wind was in our sails
We’d be alright if the wind was in our sails
We’d be alright if the wind was in our sails
And we’ll all hang on behind…
And we’ll ro-o-oll the old chariot along!
We’ll ro-o-oll the old chariot along!
We’ll ro-o-oll the old chariot along!
And we’ll all hang on behind!
Oh, we’d be alright if we make it round The Horn
We’d be alright if we make it round The Horn
We’d be alright if we make it round The Horn
And we’ll all hang on behind…
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
MBA out with latest mortgage application report.
Refinance -86% year over year
Purchase -39% year over year
Let that sink in.
xbizo
xbizo
3 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
Mortgage business has been running way above normal for a couple of years because demand was pulled forward by low rates. Refi business is dead and won’t come back to normal for five years. Folks in the mortgage business that I know ramped up like crazy starting in 2019 and now have cut their staffs 60%. Also shrinking their office space. Very flexible people that know how to stay profitable thru ups and downs.
Avery
Avery
3 years ago
Reply to  xbizo
Plenty of work for contractors for years to come on the ‘waive-the-inspections’ deals.
MPO45
MPO45
3 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
It’s sinking in but not fast enough. The downtown condos here in Chicago are still too expensive. I’ve seen $10k reductions where in places like Austin there are $50k reductions. I’m buying T-bills while I wait, not ideal but nowhere else to hide.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
I know all eyes on England …. and what will happen Friday … but usdjpy back to 24 year high. Last month BOJ stepped into defend (first time since 1998) the yen. $US blew thru intervention.
Kuroda, your move.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
3 years ago
“Earlier Monday, Chicago Fed President Charles Evans said under his current outlook for the economy, it would be appropriate for the central bank to pause rate increases at slightly more than 4.5% by next March and then to assess how the economy was reacting.”
Yeah, well … easy to talk tough when you are not voting. re FOMC … Governors (Brainard one) and NYFRB president always vote. Rest of presidents vote on alternating basis. Evans sitting out 2022 … hence, no vote in November and December meetings. In 2023, he will get to vote … and only has to vote in one meeting before March.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
The consensus here for years has been interest rates are too low. At what rate did they become too high?
xbizo
xbizo
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
I’ll say that normal Fed Funds rate is between 3% and 4%. Ten-year 4% to 5%, Twenty-year 4.5% to 5.5%.
Normal means that debt has a high enough cost to it that it does not get over-used and gives a fair return to lenders.
That’s a different question than what will it take to kill off inflation…
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  xbizo
With inflation of 2% and real economic growth of 2%, a Fed funds rate of 4% would be appropriate. To stop inflation of 8%… a Fed funds rate of 4% will not reduce inflation until real growth is -4%. The implication is the Fed in engineering a major recession…
Carl_R
Carl_R
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
I would say that the normal Fed Funds rate is about 0.5-1% over the inflation rate. Thus, if inflation is at the Fed’s target of 2%, a Fed Funds rate of 2.5-3.0% would be normal. With inflation at 8%, a normal Fed Funds rate would be about 9%. It is likely that the inflation rate will fall long before the Fed Funds rate gets to 9%, however, so the Fed Funds rate will likely reach “normal” at a much lower level.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
Why is it likely that inflation slows before the Fed funds rate gets to 9%?
In a rational world, why would anyone lend money if they were not adequately compensated for inflation and a ‘real’ growth premium, plus a risk premium, if appropriate? Those are the opportunity costs of lending. At a rate less than this, the lender subsidizes the borrower . The result is the lender gives up wealth to the borrower–yes, the Fed engineered a massive wealth transfer in recent years.
This is why Volker took rates to the stratosphere to stop inflation.
Felix_Mish
Felix_Mish
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
What else do you do with your money if not loan it? If it stays in cash, you’re loaning it to yourself at 0% interest.
Carl_R
Carl_R
3 years ago
Reply to  Captain Ahab
Volker took rates to the stratosphere because that was what was required at the time. They will take rates as high as is necessary this time as well. How high will that be? My guess is that 4-6% will be sufficient to slow many segments of the market, but only time can answer that question. What must slow is demand, not supply. Will people borrow at 7% to buy real estate, expecting it to inflate at 8%? Perhaps. We can see.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
It seems to be the driving theory behind Fed policy. Especially focus on the criticisms.
Do the math.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
“in ways that can’t be observed until it’s too late.”
Not unlike climate change.
RonJ
RonJ
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Considering that climate changes and has changed, since long before any of us were born, there isn’t really any too late, as climate cannot be stopped from changing. It is interesting how the climate alarmists ignore that the temperature dropped from the 1940’s into the 1970’s.
They also ignore a new 12 year record long period of no major hurricanes hitting the U.S. or that there were no hurricanes in August this year, despite climate change.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
3 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Ever wonder why liberals changed from Global Warming to Global Climate Change? Every weather event not at the ‘average’ qualifies as ‘climate change’. For example, more hurricanes or fewer hurricanes. With global warming the temperature has to go up over a sustained period–and it was not going up.
Carl_R
Carl_R
3 years ago
I remember learning years ago that there was about a year lag between the initiation of Fed rate changes and the full effect of them. That appears to still be true. The very long lag makes difficult or impossible to not overcorrect in both directions. That was why Friedman advocated that the Fed not attempt to micromanage the economy, but rather attempt to manage the money supply to grow it at a steady rate, which, by the way, is exactly what being on a gold standard accomplishes.
Zardoz
Zardoz
3 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
Reminds me of a company van I was issued back in the before times when I did maintenance work. The steering wheel had 120 degrees of slack, so changing direction involved foresight and some elegant spinning.
The fed doesn’t have a windshield to look through though, and is trying to drive this rickety beast with a roadmap, compass, and watch. They can’t help but end up in the ditch.
Carl_R
Carl_R
3 years ago
Reply to  Zardoz
It reminds me of driving my old VW van. They were light (1800 lbs) and had the aerodynamics of a box. When you went under an underpass in a strong crosswind, it would jump sideways a couple of feet when you went under the underpass, and then jump back in the opposite direction when you came out the other side. If you just let it be, it was fine, but if you tried to steer to counteract it, you would over-correct for sure.
Felix_Mish
Felix_Mish
3 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
Ah. Good times. Good times. 🙂

Decorate Your Walls with Mish Fine Art Images

Click each image to view details or purchase in the store.

Stay Informed

Subscribe to MishTalk

You will receive all messages from this feed and they will be delivered by email.