US Natural Gas Price Near 14-Year Peak, EU Hits New Record

US Natural Gas Futures courtesy of Trading Economics

Trading Economics Natural Gas Comments 

US Natural Gas futures were trading around the $9.10/MMBtu mark, not far from a 14-year peak of $9.75/MMBtu hit in late July, buoyed by strong overseas and domestic demand. The temperatures in the US this summer remain high, with several heatwaves boosting demand for air conditioners. On top of that, Freeport LNG has recently agreed with regulators to partially restart operations in October at its shuttered export plant in Texas and said it began to pull in tiny amounts of natural gas from pipelines. The resumption of flows will withdraw more natural gas from storage and boost exports. Adding to the bullish outlook, demand from Europe remains strong as the critical Nord Stream 1 pipeline from Russia to Germany is currently running at 20% capacity. Meanwhile, the latest EIA data showed a smaller-than-expected injection into inventories for the week ending August 12.

Natural Gas Price For Past One Year

US Natural Gas Futures courtesy of Trading Economics

The price of natural gas has been climbing for most of the month. This will translate to higher electrical costs in the CPI report for August.

The EU is much worse off compared to the US.

EU Natural Gas Price

EU Natural Gas Futures courtesy of Trading Economics

Trading Economics Comments 

A historic drought triggered by an arid summer that set heat records across Europe threatens to halt energy shipments along the Rhine River while limiting hydroelectric and nuclear power production. Exacerbating concerns about supplies, Russia’s Gazprom has dramatically reduced flows through the Nord Stream pipeline to roughly 20% of its capacity, citing issues with turbines. What could be Europe’s biggest energy crisis in a generation has already prompted German regulators to advise that the bloc’s largest economy must cut its natural gas use by 20% to protect themselves against a natural gas shortage this winter.

US Gasoline Futures

Gasoline Futures courtesy of Trading Economics 

Gasoline futures have mostly been steady all month. The AAA National Average Gas Price is $3.904 today, $3.908 yesterday, and $3.959 a week ago. 

US CPI Impact 

On August 10 I commented CPI Month-Over-Month Was Unchanged, Year-Over-Year Up 8.5 Percent

Key Points

  • The gasoline index fell 7.7 percent in July and offset increases in the food and shelter indexes, resulting in the all items index being unchanged over the month.
  • The energy index fell 4.6 percent over the month as the indexes for gasoline and natural gas declined, but the index for electricity increased.
  • The food index continued to rise, increasing 1.1 percent over the month as the food at home index rose 1.3 percent.
  • The index for all items less food and energy rose 0.3 percent in July, a smaller increase than in April, May, or June.
  • The indexes for shelter, medical care, motor vehicle insurance, household furnishings and operations, new vehicles, and recreation were among those that increased over the month.
  • The indexes for airline fares, used cars and trucks, communication, and apparel declined in July. 

If the price of gasoline stabilizes for another 10 days, then gasoline will not offset increases in electricity and shelter in August.

So don’t expect another “no inflation” reading in the next CPI report.

This post originated at MishTalk.Com

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honestcreditguy
honestcreditguy
1 year ago
I think PHX is good buy as they have a silver wheaton kind of gig going but in natural gas.
Could see their divi go to 6-7C next qtr
AMLP has price target of 63 at low end
PAA
SJT
GEL
jhnfntn
jhnfntn
1 year ago
Hey Mish: Been enjoying playing Nat Gas this Spring and Summer and appreciate your energy coverage. May I suggest some follow through on how and how much international Nat Gas prices will be influencing what we pay here in the US
this Winter? Your long time reader, John in Moab
Mish
Mish
1 year ago
‘We’re in trouble’: Electric rates in Texas have surged over 70% as summer kicks in
Natural gas prices have soared, and gas-generation plants produce the most electricity in the state — and set the market rate.
The price of natural gas has increased even more than crude oil, but many consumers may not have noticed. They will soon enough — in higher electric bills.

How much higher? Over 70% higher than a year ago for residential customers in Texas’ competitive market, according to the latest rate plans offered on the state’s Power to Choose website.

PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
Reply to  Mish
Copied from earlier:
Source of electricity in US
NG 38%
Coal 22%
Nuclear 19%
Renewables 20%
Petroleum 0.5%
The only area where electricity generation prices are dropping is renewables.
Texas is expanding renewables, but not fast enough to make a big difference yet.
Bullish for natural gas.
Pontius
Pontius
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave

Holy grail would be a centralized, comprehensive, rationale energy plan adopted by US. Take the current US energy sources cited above. Nuclear base generation much higher for base load; without storage solutions – wind/solar exhibit diminishing returns caping out at perhaps a third; with natural gas/hydrogen providing quick power generation for peak usage/renewable outages. Greens who do not support nuclear should not be taken seriously, wind/solar cab supplement but not be primary source.

JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  Mish
It surprises me that the electric rates are so variable in TX or anywhere else. Nothing has budged where we live. $20/month customer fee + 9.63 cents/kWh. Same as it was before the scamdemic.
shamrock
shamrock
1 year ago
“The price of natural gas has been climbing for most of the month. This
will translate to higher electrical costs in the CPI report for August”
Do you utility rates go up and down with the price of natural gas or oil futures? I don’t think that is very common, utilities need permission to change the rates they charge. I doubt it affects the CPI report very much, maybe the PPI report.
Mish
Mish
1 year ago
Reply to  shamrock
CPI Electricity
Rising with NG and Coal
If there is another reason, I am open to it
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
Reply to  Mish
Source of electricity in US
NG 38%
Coal 22%
Nuclear 19%
Renewables 20%
Petroleum 0.5%
The only area where electricity generation prices are dropping is renewables.
JRM
JRM
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
And you forgot “Dams”!!!
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
Reply to  JRM
Hydro electric from dams is included in the 20% renewables.
Wind 9.2%
Hydro 6.3%
Solar 2.8%
Biomass 1.3%
Geothermal 0.4%
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Does anyone here know if there’s a relationship between NG prices and propane prices? Is it a solid formula, or does the equation (if there is one) change much? I ask because I’m calling the propane dealer tomorrow and want to see if I can guess what the price will be. Prior to the runup in hydrocarbon prices, I was paying $2 to $2.20/gallon.
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
NG contains 1030 BTU/cubic foot
Propane 2490 BTU/cubic foot
87% of US propane production comes from natural gas processing so the price is very much tied to NG prices. 13% from crude refining.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Our local propane dealer sold the business, and the successor is impossible to deal with (voice mail jail) so I switched. The new dealer’s introductory price is $1.95/gallon, and I’ve just emailed them to inquire what the price would’ve been had I been getting a refill.
8dots
8dots
1 year ago
The Viking civil war will not expand. Putin will fill the German NATGAS tanks. All he has to do is to lift reserves from
70% to 100%. Putin is an Arkhangale who will send Finland PM to Sanaa Yemen for winter vacation..
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  8dots
Lucifer was an archangel before he fell. Are you saying Putin is Lucifer? Personally I think that is a bit excessive to call him that. He is just your average Russian tyrant and has no special powers at all.
Dutoit
Dutoit
1 year ago
Unfortunately we are lead by incompetent clowns in Europe (except Hungary), and go towards ruin, and even civil war, in the next few years. The hard energy problem with its severe consequences will very much worsen the other problems that could be barely managed when there was still some remaining wealth, among them a great non assimilated population from immigration, increased daily by non controlled borders.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
1 year ago
Looks like Putin’s chief proponent of the invasion of Ukraine was supposed to get killed but his daughter was in the car instead. The unrest in Russia is increasing.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Or a Russian mafia hit job executed at an opportune moment.
Zardoz
Zardoz
1 year ago
Lies don’t put groceries on the table.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
For some Dugan reminds them of Grigori Rasputin.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
One of my frustrations with all of this is that U.S. natural gas prices are stated in $/MMBtu while European prices are in E/MWh. I don’t know how to compare those. The European price seems to assume that the NG is converted to electricity, but that doesn’t help because I don’t know what thermal efficiency factor is used.

Mish, can you do a translation? What’s the conversion factor? The currency translation is immaterial now and easily calculated in more normal times, but not MMBtu to MWh.

JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Back of the envelope would look at 2018-9, when the U.S. was at ~$2/MMBtu and Europe was at ~30E/MWh, implying a conversion factor of ~15. If that’s true or at least close enough for horseshoes, it implies a U.S. price now of ~$16.25/MMBtu if (as a few years ago) there was a uniform world price or thereabouts. This would further imply that European NG is roughly double the U.S. price because of Russia’s curtailment. But I have little confidence in my attempt at a translation, so some more expert help would be good.
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
1 MMBtu = 0.293071 MWH
Here is a calculator
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Thank you!
So $9.26/MMBtu = $31.60/MWh. Europe is paying $244/MWh, or 7.7x the U.S. price. Trying it a different way to check*, $244/MWh = $71.50/MWh in Europe. The U.S. price is $9.26, making Europe’s price 7.7x the U.S. price.
This is the very first time I’ve done the calculation. I had low confidence in that back of the envelope guesstimate. In my defense, at least I said so. This comparison seems pretty solid to me, but if I’ve made an error please tell me. Honest, it’s about facts and not ego.
* Old journalist’s rule, when journalism was honorable: “If your mother tells you she loves you, check it out.”
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Looks good to me assuming your prices are correct.
Which explains the desire to export natgas to Europe where the price is 7.7x higher.
Of course, there will be Americans who will say stop exporting it to keep prices lower here. The same goes for agriculture exports. Let the world freeze and starve so we don’t have to pay a little bit more. Kind of sad.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Used the prices in Mish’s post. NG in the U.S. has quadrupled since 2018-19, so if there was a world price for NG a few years ago, and Europe now pays almost 8x our current price, this implies that their NG prices have gone up by 30-fold? What?!
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Fracking is way down (I know, my company selling a lot less consumables to the Fracking industry) since 2018/2019 time frame so the amount of gas produced is also down, hence prices rising.
Until Fracking took off in the early 2010s, natural gas wasn’t all that cheap relative to other energy forms. It’s only after Fracking produced gobs of extra gas that the price dropped. Ending Fracking will end the US gas surplus.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
I am curious about why fracking is down.
8dots
8dots
1 year ago
$NATGAS weekly : Apr 11 high is the first close above Oct 2 2021 high, a setup bar. Apr 18, a trigger. // May 23 is the first close > Apr 18 high. May 23 is a setup bar. June 6, a trigger. Last week failed to close > the last trigger high…..We don’t know what will happen next.
8dots
8dots
1 year ago
Shutting down Nerd #1 is a harbinger for thing to come. Putin wants to keep his best paying customers. Europe Green depend on him,
but they don’t get it…
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  8dots
Europe Green doesn’t depend on Putin because he has shown to be an unreliable source. Europe Green will now rely on what they can find and produce near to home. Putin has already lost the best customer that Russia has ever had and ever will.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Despite all my efforts you obviously don t get it yet , so lemme repeat once again : Russia has been one hell of a great reliable energy provider TILL your criminal, disgusting ,cheating serial liar, global hegemony striving, rogue nation started yet another far away war, this time against Russia, ordering our fckn clueless EU idiots not to, use Nordstream II , even before the SMO began ….. Btw don t bother to answer my comment …for there simply ain t no answer apart from some pre chewed western propaganda crap you seem to be full of …..
9TIMES9
9TIMES9
1 year ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
Perfectly said my friend.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
Nobody in Europe sees Russia as reliable in anything now. You made your bed now sleep in it and quite crying about how unjust you feel it is because no one is listening to you.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
Keep on watching LCI with daily, hours long, anti Russia ‘debates’ by biased idiots cheerleading a war against Russia ! The US imposed narrative might change rapidly in the coming months when it becomes clear that mankinds existence hangs in the balance ….
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
LCI sucks almost as bad as you.
Zardoz
Zardoz
1 year ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
Comrade Yoda! Moose and Squirrel sighted near Ukrainian front. Investigate immediately!
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Reply to  Zardoz
Keep on buying oil stocks ….that s about ALL yer good at !
Pontius
Pontius
1 year ago
Reply to  FromBrussels2
West created de facto NATO military force (largest in Europe) at the doorstep of Russia (something the West provided assurances in past it would not do). The Ivy league educated “rulers of the universe” at Langley have a career checklist that includes taking final kill shot of the Cold War. Your children will be used as cannon fodder as their children attend rush week at Brown.
Steeple
Steeple
1 year ago
Mish, electricity prices are already baking in a tough scenario for European industry. German and French forward electricity prices are 9-10X that of the US. NE Asia won’t be immune either.
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
Worldwide demand for energy in all forms continues to increase due to population growth, economic growth and global warming/climate change (ironically). It should continue to increase for the rest of this decade at least.
The world is attempting to transition towards more renewable energy, but that is not happening fast enough to meet increasing energy demands. Thus, we continue to need more fossil fuels.
However, the fossil fuel industry recognizes the transition that is happening, and has reduced capex spending in anticipation of less future demand for fossil fuels. Many companies already own several decades of reserves, and they are already worried that some of those reserves will become stranded in the future. So they are not anxious to spend large amounts to find more.
This has led to the current situation where growing demand is beginning to use up all the presently available supply. OPEC is tapped out. US shale is reaching peak production. We would be in a more serious state already if the US and others were not tapping their SPRs.
However, tapping SPRs just delays the needed investments and makes the coming energy crunch worse.
I expect oil, natural gas and electricity prices to continue to face upward pressure going forward. And there is very little that we can do about it. SPR releases end soon. Chinese demand is going to rebound before winter sets in, and as lockdowns end. And Europe supposedly will cut off Russian oil in December.
However, you can invest in the oil and gas companies that are currently gushing cash as a result of high prices. Warren Buffett wants the 22% cash flow that Occidental provides at $100 oil. Most of the small and midcap Canadian companies I own have 30-40% cash flows at $100 oil. And if you specifically want NatGas; TOU and FANG are both great.
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Decidedly you like oil and gas because you talk about them in every post. Do you have any other passions like Elvis memorabilia or something else?
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
I never cared about oil and gas until two years ago when I recognized the investment opportunity it represented (largely thanks to this great blog).
I have many passions. The only one that matters on this blog is my passion for investing. And I am always looking for the next great investment. I now believe that Hydrogen may be that investment.
So get ready for me talking a lot about Hydrogen in addition to oil and gas. Sorry about that. Lol!
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Too much of the same thing gives the impression of being unidimensional. Everyone knows about oil and gas so it’s time to move on to other less known opportunities.
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
I am always happy to discuss investments. Feel free to start talking about your current investments. I am usually on the lookout for good opportunities.
Would you like to discuss Hydrogen?
Doug78
Doug78
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Sure but it’s late here. Have to wait till the morning.
FromBrussels2
FromBrussels2
1 year ago
Reply to  Doug78
….hahaha ….I do like you ….once in a while ….
Jmurr
Jmurr
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Once the SPR is foolishly and completely drained, gasoline prices will peak again.
I heard this week that charging an EV is equivalent to adding 2 HVAC systems to your electric bill. How is that supposed to work with electric utility prices so high.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
1 year ago
Reply to  Jmurr
Depends on how you are billed for your electric use. Is it a flat rate or are you billed based on when you use it (ie more for peak hours)?
Most electric vehicles will be charged at night (off hours) and if you are on a peak/non-peak billing then it will cost less because you charge at night.
Anyway, adding 100 to your electric bill a month isn’t going to cost you any more if you also remove 100 in gas cost from not needing to gas your car. It’s just a wash.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Time of day pricing is an illusion. In the end, it’s really a matter of how much extra juice. As for “cheaper than gas,” just wait. The politicians who run state governments are promoting EVs and then turning right around and taxing their use at much higher rates than gasoline taxes. It’s a complete scam.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Politician pricing is of course a scam. They will always attempt to extract money from the masses to line their pockets and friends pockets. Very soon EV’s will pay a big sticker price to renew their plate tags because the government needs to make up for the lost gas tax revenue. It will be a few hundred dollars a year I’d guess depending on how much you drive (to spread it out I’d imagine it will be billed quarterly).
But time of day pricing is real in many areas. That’s because there is a lot of slack at night when demand is lower. Power companies would love to produce more at night and sell it then even if it’s for less money than at peak times.
JRM
JRM
1 year ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
My state has already floated the idea to charge gas and electric cars a mile per $!!!
But we, the sheep, are not for it!!!
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
Reply to  Jmurr
Whether its gas or electricity, its all about energy and our growing need for more of it.
I doubt the SPR will be completely drained. Even Biden isn’t THAT stupid.
The current SPR releases are merely delaying the coming energy crunch and higher prices.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
U.S. electricity generation has been remarkably stable at about 4 petawatt hours per year ever since 2005. I’ve never done the deep dive, so I can only speculate that energy conservation is behind it. One example that comes to mind is the move to LED lighting, which uses about 1/8th of the power than incandescent uses. I don’t know what the components of electricity demand are, so take the previous sentence as an illustration only.
Note: The link below will open a PDF, in case you’re using a phone.
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Energy is a global market. And demand keeps increasing.
This last one projects to 2040. Big demand for natural gas.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
Yes, of course energy is a world market. In this little corner of the discussion, you said that U.S. electricity demand will rise. I replied by showing you that it’s been stable for the past 17 years.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
I rechecked. You did not say that U.S. electricity demand would rise. My bad.
PapaDave
PapaDave
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Not a problem. The US is a mature market that is enjoying a lot of efficiencies that keep energy demand from growing quickly. Like LED bulbs, improved building codes, more efficient cars and appliances, etc.
In the rest of the world there are still over 700 million who do not have electricity at all, and many more with intermittent and unreliable electricity. Their demand and consumption will grow much faster.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  PapaDave
I mentioned LED because when we built a house 5 years ago, part of the drill was going to various vendors to pick the innards. There was a visit to the lighting people, and they had to sell me on LEDs. I tried some of the bulbs early on and they were terrible. Flickered, not dimmable, and the color “temperature” was too bright.

In the intervening decade, everything changed. They don’t flicker, they’re dimmable, and there are color temperature choices. So you can have the really bright and harsh ones in garages and shops, and warmer ones in living rooms and kitchens. I wonder how much of an aggregate difference they have made. Another one is heat pumps, which are roughly 2-1/2x as efficient as bare coils. I wonder how much of the difference is attributable to outsourcing of manufacturing.

JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  Jmurr
I have owned an EV for 10 years, solely out of curiosity. Got it in Think’s bankruptcy sale of 2012. I have used my ownership as the anchor for a thorough study of all things EV, and unlike the typical EV owner I am resolutely non-promotional. To me, it’s just a car with a different fuel and propulsion system, not a cause.
Now to numbers. All triple checked through both experience and federal statistics.
1. The average car is driven about 32 miles a day. (U.S. Dept of Transportation.) The average EV less than that, but there are no official numbers. I can only cite an old WSJ story that pegged it at 25 miles a day. For purposes of this comment, I will use 30 miles a day.
2. The average EV gets about 3.5 miles/kWh. (Environmental Protection Agency.) This is a full-year average that incorporates seasonal variance. For conservatism’s sake (meaning not to overstate EV fuel economy) I will use 3 miles/kWh.
3. #1/#2 = 10 kWh/day. Now let’s look at what that means.
4. Average U.S. household uses 30 kWh/day. (U.S. Dept of Energy.) Add an EV, and it goes to 40 kWh/day. Not “equivalent to adding 2 HVAC systems to your electric bill.”
5. 90% of EV charging is done at home, overnight, when electricity demand is low. Thus, in the aggregate, no need to upgrade the grid. Qualifier: It’s a big country, and there’ll always be exceptions.
6. A clothes dryer runs at the highest temperature uses 5 kWh/hour. (Maytag.)
7. There are about 110 million personal passenger vehicles in the United States. (U.S. Dept of Tranportation.) If they were all electrified, they would use 1,100 kWh/day, or 1.1 MWh.
8. The U.S. generates ~11.2 million MWh/day (U.S. Dept of Energy.)
9. #8/#7 = ~10%. Thus, if all 110 million light passenger vehicles were electrified, demand would rise by 10%. Mostly overnight (see #5)
CONCLUSION: Whatever else you say, pro or con, with respect to EVs, they are not the energy hogs that their detractors claim they are. There are other drawbacks to EVs, principally their short range due to lithium-ion batteries having much lower energy density than gasolone or diesel, and the slowness of recharging, including at those so-called “superchargers” that Tesla yammers about.
Facts: They’re what’s for breakfast.

p.s.: Anyone thinking of buying an EV should laugh if (s)he’s pitched on a “home charging station.” Just plug it into a 240v/30A circuit, same as the electric dryer or oven. Depending on battery size, a recharge from 20% state of charge will take 6 to 10 hours. Those charging stations add nothing except cost.

JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Correcting a garbled #6.

A clothes dryer running at the highest temperature uses 5 kW per hour. (Maytag.)

SteveP
SteveP
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Recheck your #7. remember, 1MWh = 1,000 kWh
110,000,000 vehicles x 10 kWh/Day/Vehicle = 1,100,000,000 kWh, that number divided by 1,000 = 1,100,000 MWh/day for EV charging.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  SteveP
Arghhh! Not again! The problem is the zeroes. They never fail to overwhelm me. Happens almost every time I do these numbers. Let’s try again.

In 2021, the U.S generated 4,115,540 milllion kWh in 2021. That’s 4.116 trillion kWh, or 4,116 billion kWh. Divided by 365, that’s 11.277 billion kWh/day. Electrify 110 million vehicles at 10 kWh a day, and they’ll use another 1.1 billion kWh. 1.1/11,273 = 9.8% extra. Or have I still screwed up the zeroes?

SteveP
SteveP
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
I think that is correct.
Where it could get interesting is the peak demand with fast chargers, because a lot of them will be needed even with people charging at low levels overnight or at work.
Let’s say a typical “Quick Mart” has 16 gas pumps. Each gas pump now has a fractional HP pump, maybe a load of 500 Watts per pump. So maybe 8 kW total peak demand.
Replace those (or add) today’s “fast” chargers, say 16 of those at a nominal 250 kW (that may be on the low end, Tesla’s may be 350 kW).
16 x 250 = 4,000 kW or 4 MW of connected load. Suddenly every suburban or rural Quick Mart has an electric load (design peak demand) equal to a paper mill, auto assembly plant, or a medium size college campus.
And if I’m doing my math correctly, a 250 kW charger (with 15% loss) adds a net of about 3.5 kWh per minute to the EV battery, so it will be adding about 12-14 miles range per minute of actual charge time.
Compare that to my sedan, where I can add over 300 miles of range in about two minutes of actual full time, or 150 miles per minute.
Either electric or gas cars will have similar time requirements to pull in, park, initiate the process with a payment method, etc. So the actual “fill time” is what is important.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  SteveP
For starters, understand that my replacement case was theoretical, meant only to sketch out how much more electricity would be needed to electrify the entire fleet of light-duty passenger vehicles. I say 10%, but that number could go both ways. For instance, if future EVs have 2-speed transmissions (which are in the pipeline), their fuel economy will improve. I’ve seen numbers all over the block. I think 5-10%. I used a conservative 3 miles/kWh, and I think it’s a good number because fuel economy will drop in cold climates, and if (more like when) EVs spread into heavier passengers vehicles.
Yes, if EVs get a lot more popular, the 10% not charged at home overnight will be a bigger number. There will be some issues in the distribution networks. If you charge at the QuickMart or the equivalent, you can forget about the 5- or 10-minute pit stop. (By the way, it’s not 12-14 of range/minute, but more like 4 or 5 miles/minute — and that’s optimistic. Plus the QuickMart will add a substantial markup to the utility’s price. Once people figure out that they can pay 14 or 15 cents/kWh at home vs. waiting an hour to charge up at 35 cents/kWh, I think home charging will dominate for the economies of both time and money.
Finally, I need to emphasize that I am in no way an EV promoter. They have pluses and minuses. Range and charging time are big negatives. Unless there’s a battery chemistry breakthrough (a real one, not the hype), EVs are going to be a viable urban commuter choice but I think that’s all.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  SteveP
For some reason, or more accurately for no reason, my reply is in the moderation queue. LOL
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  SteveP
On this last look, maybe electrifying 110 million vehicles adds only 1% to electricity demand, which is trivial. I don’t believe it, so let’s do annual numbers, zeroes and all.
110 million vehicles x 10 kWh/day x 365 days = ~400 billion kWh / year
Electricity generation in ’21 was 4,115,540 million kWh. That’s 4.116 trillion kWh or 4,115 billion kWh
400 billion / 4,115 billion = 9.7%. That’s what I think it is. Again, the zeroes kill me every time.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Making 110 million vehicles all electric will add a hell of a lot more than 1% increase in electrical demand. From everything I’ve read it will increase demand dramatically meaning a lot more power generation has to come online during peak periods (at night there is a lot of slack obviously so demand at night can be met by existing production, at least the non-solar kind – LOL)
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
As I wrote, the zeroes play tricks on me every time I do this. The U.S. generates 4.1155 quadrillion watt hours a year. The DOE reports the number in millions of millions (a/k/a trillions) of kWh. Zeroes! It makes my calculator spit out exponential notations, which are a real pain to work with. I believe the right number is roughly 10% in the aggregate. It’s a big country, and as EVs become more common there will be more charging away from home, so there’ll be stories about the grid written by “reporters” who never checked a fact in their sorry lives.
The reality will be that grid adjustments should be immaterial in the larger scheme of things. Conversion to electric, if it happens, will take decades. There’ll be plenty of time to adjust within almost all normal maintenance and upgrade cycles. I laugh at the anti-EV types who yammer about how local grids will be fried. What a pantload.
Charging an EV at home is the equivalent of running an electric dryer. Given normal EV driving patterns and battery sizes of the latest EV generations, an EV won’t have to be plugged in every night. More like every four or five days except in winter, in which case every two or three nights. Probably less than that. The average transformer serves six houses. Anyone who claims that the transformers will have to be replaced because they’re overwhelmed by EVs is a knee-jerk moron who knows nothing about them.
And no, I am anything but an EVangelist. Still, the idea that these things will somehow break the grid is pure stupidity.
radar
radar
1 year ago
Reply to  JackWebb
Can you imagine all those cars on the interstates having to stop for charging? Might spend half a day waiting in line to get a fill-up.
JackWebb
JackWebb
1 year ago
Reply to  radar
EVs make poor road trip vehicles for this reason. The latest generation is well-suited for urban commuting.

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