I propose a new rule in response to the slaughter and rape of innocent teens and other actions by Hamas. 
Please watch Rep Rashida Tlaib Ignore Questions about Hamas
The Israeli military has not confirmed the story of babies heads being chopped off.
However, it is certain Hamas had swarmed through crowds, killing at least 260 people and taking an unknown number hostage at a music festival.
There are plenty of violent videos circulating. They are too graphic for this website but you can seek them out if you want.
I suspect Rashida Tlaib will not longer be a member of the House after the next election. Good riddance.
New Rule: If you cannot openly and honestly blast Hamas for these actions, then do not bother complaining about any response by Israel.
You can replace Hamas with any number of terrorist attacks. This is my short and easy to understand “New Rule” post.
Certainly inhuman behavior by anyone is reprehensible, and there is enough of it on all sides to condemn.
Our best policy is to leave the Middle East.
https://mises.org/wire/get-us-out-middle-east
Before singling out Hamas, in particular, for condemnation; one must surely first make sure to also condemn any other gang of government goons who have ever killed 260 or more children in acts of violence. Quite a few of those are still around. Until those are all properly condemned, little Hamas is rather inconsequential as atrocities go.
Not excusing Hamas. They’re a government. Killing, maiming, robbing and harassing kids, as well as all else, is what governments do.
If this latest “war” demonstrates anything, it is the importance of ensuring governments are LIMITED. As in small. And constrained. Hamas, for all their evil, “only” managed 260 or so kids. Israel, has already quadrupled that, just in the past few days. With no end in sight neither past nor future.
By the time this “war” is over, Israel will no doubt have beaten Hamas 100-1, in innocents killed, maimed, displaced, harassed, inconvenienced……. Not necessarily because the guys in Hamas is all that much nicer, BUT BECAUSE the Hamas Government is MUCH SMALLER AND MORE PROPERLY LIMITED. Jefferson’s government wasn’t the greatest in history, on account of the slave owning slimeball being oh-so “nice” a Dear Leader. But simply because his Government was properly limited, and the people he governed, could shop the exact same gunshops his, also more properly, limited army could.
Perhaps there’s a certain ideology that commands exactly what was done, and possibly she and Hamas, maybe even a few others, are all adherents to it?
That could explain it.
If so, there could be something about it in history books. Probably not though, because Europeans and especially Jews are super sensitive to ideologies that command extermination of all non-adherents so… yeah I guess absent any precedent it’s totally a mystery.
Can’t believe how many sickos on here actually approve terrorist attack
Who are you calling a terrorist?
You mean the millions of dead from U.S. and U.S. allies sanctions, bombs and missiles.
So they can steal oil, resources and power?
Key Findings
432,093 civilians have died violent deaths as a direct result of the U.S. post-9/11 wars.
An estimated 3.6-3.8 million people have died indirectly in post-9/11 war zones, bringing the total death toll to at least 4.5-4.7 million and counting.
Wake up. Idiots like you are just as responsible as the ones that directly kill these people. With your fake news and educational ignorance. You perpetuate and support the death and destruction of humans across the globe.
I normally don’t comment on controversial subjects. I like to stick to semi-controversial subjects like cheeseburgers.
What Hamas did was an atrocity, there’s no justification for it. I was appalled when I heard sympathizers trying to excuse it.
However, there are people on the other side who are openly calling for the eradication of all Gazans, guilty or not, as revenge. That’s genocide.
Should we blame Hamas? Yes.
Who should we blame Hamas on?
Hamas is not a monolithic organization (it is a movement), and contains all kinds of groups, many are involved in teaching, welfare, and minding children.
According to Yitzak Rabin and many other Israeli officials, Hamas was a creation of Israel, nourished and nurtured by Israel as a counterbalance to the PLO, to split the Palestinians.
The existence of Hamas must be blamed on an enormous constellation of factors: They did not arise ex nihilo.
“The attackers came at dawn, quickly occupying the town. The men were separated from the women and shot. One of the attackers, opening the door of one of the homes, found an old man standing there. He shot him. ‘He enjoyed shooting him,’ an eyewitness to the attack said afterwards.
Soon the town was empty—the entire population of 5,000 had either been killed or expelled, those who survived put on trucks, and driven to Gaza. The empty homes were looted. ‘We were very happy,’ one of the participants said afterwards. ‘If you don’t take it, someone else will. You don’t feel you have to give it back. They were not coming back.’”
Be’ir Sheeba (area adjacent to Gaza)
2023 or 1948 ?
I am sorry and I hate to be that guy but here’s something that NOBDOY seems to be aware of so I’ll just leave this right here for now. We are all being played as fools.
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas, this is our strategy”
Benjamin “Bibi” Netanyahu. 2019
I condem Hamas and all other terrorists. Who knows how many terrorists have come to US illegally over the southern border. In IL there was a riot on day 1 at a shelter for the migrants/illegals. The terrorists are already here. Prepare yourself and your family.
From Mish : “The Israeli military has not confirmed the story of babies heads being chopped off. However, it is certain Hamas had swarmed through crowds, killing at least 260 people and taking an unknown number hostage at a music festival.”
I have not seen any facts to substantiate either story. The decapitation fantasy has been thoroughly debunked. The music festival slaughter will most likely also turn out to be a fabrication. Without these “so called” atrocities by Hamas Israel will have some well deserved trouble justifying the inhumane destruction they are raining down on Gaza.
We’ve got family over there – one of them lost three friends at the concert. It seems pretty certain the concert event took place, although details may vary. There is considerable video footage.
“We’ve got family over there – one of them lost three friends at the concert.” Or maybe it’s ” one of them heard about a guy who lost three friends at the concert” I’ve seen considerable video footage of people running, police with guns drawn, but no “terrorists” and no shooting.
They were all known to be attending the concert, and their names are on the list from the morgue. This information is precious to our niece, who is pregnant, and not stupid.
Be careful what foolishness you write jr – Alex Jones claimed Sandy Hook was a sham, was sued in court and was ordered to pay $1 billion.
Do you have a spare $1 billion?
It’s not foolishness to say you haven’t seen any evidence. It’s foolishness to believe claims that provide no evidence, like the 40 beheaded babies. I’ve heard so many false claims about Ukraine, Syria, Libya, Iraq, etc. I can’t count them all.
Reuters has already walked back one of the video’s purporting to be concert goers running for their lives. Fact Check: Clip shows Bruno Mars concertgoers, not attack on Israel desert festival.
https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/clip-shows-bruno-mars-concertgoers-not-attack-israel-desert-festival-2023-10-09/
I am not the least bit concerned with liability for that comment. Truth is an absolute defense to defamation.
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas, this is our strategy”
Benjamin “Bibi” Netanyahu. 2019
I don’t mean to over post this but it simply MUST BE REALIZED how Hamas came to be.
You want video evidence?
1) videos of concertgoers with shots being fired around them and running for cover
2) dashcam video of car escaping concert being ambushed and shot at, killing the driver
3) video from Hamas showing them shooting at port-o-lets at the concert where people likely were hiding
4) video of Shani Louk dancing at the concert, later shown dead on a truck being taken away from the concert area – leg hanging outside of truck, later video in Gaza with twisted leg forced inside truck and Hamas shouting Allah Akbhar and spitting on her corpse
5) video of Noa Argamani being taken away by motorcycle while her boyfriend is led away handcuffed by Hamas
6) drone video of aftermath from concert showing burnt out cars and shells on the road
Yeah yeah. But no rape, burning, or beheading.
And other stories where the Hamas guys were polite and killed nobody.
How things unfolded at the concert we don’t know exactly, but 92% of the people escaped. Hamas concentrated on Israeli army posts and barracks, and most of the hostages are military (pows to them).
Just b/c Hamas committed war crime we are not obligated to swallow all the atrocity porn bait hook, line, and sinker.
Israel is able to cut off food, electricity, fuel and water supplies to a population of 2 million people. So, it is very clear who has the power and who doesn’t. And with higher power comes higher responsibility. Show me when has Israel behaved responsibly?
You are referring to the free electricity and water Israel has been providing to Gaza for the past 19 years? This was supposed to be temporary until the Palestinians could build their own utilities. Instead, the Pals invested in war. Now the free goodies are shut off.
The end game is more important than trigger pictures vs trigger pictures.
Bibi coalition expanded today. If within a decade Palestinian and Israelis will be free
to move anywhere in/out Gaza, Israel and the west bank the ME will flourish like never before.
Meanwhile Hamas blocked Salah Al Deen hwy, the main road south.
The jews took over and pushed out an entire civilization of people. They marched them out and locked them in between 2 borders.
Hamas is 25k fighters out of over 2 million people that are basically trapped in there.
The Israeli government is a terrorist organization just the same. You don’t go in and slaughter 10k of thousands of people every time you get a pin prick attack.
This is what the U.S. government does around the world also. Which creates pure hatred that lasts basically forever and manifests its self generation after generation.
Life’s a beach and then you die.
Life is like an onion.
You are forced to peel away layer after layer and all the while it makes you cry.
That was a hideously callous remark.
Stunning State Department Memo Warns Diplomats: No Gaza ‘De-Escalation’ Talk
“As Israel escalates its offensive, U.S. diplomats are being discouraged from publicly using three phrases that would urge calm.
As Israel escalates its attacks on Gaza, the State Department is discouraging diplomats working on Middle East issues from making public statements suggesting the U.S. wants to see less violence, according to internal emails viewed by HuffPost.
In messages circulated on Friday, State Department staff wrote that high-level officials do not want press materials to include three specific phrases: “de-escalation/ceasefire,” “end to violence/bloodshed” and “restoring calm.”
The revelation provides a stunning signal about the Biden administration’s reluctance to push for Israeli restraint as the close U.S. partner expands the offensive it launched after Hamas ― which rules Gaza ― attacked Israeli communities on Oct. 7.
The emails were sent hours after Israel told more than 1.1 million residents of northern Gaza that they should leave their homes and shelters ahead of an expected ground invasion of the region. On Thursday, the United Nations said Israel had given Gazans a 24-hour deadline to move to the south of the strip, and warned that it would be “impossible for such a movement to take place without devastating humanitarian consequences.”
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/state-department-internal-emails-gaza-israel_n_65296395e4b0a304ff6ff95d
“In messages circulated on Friday, State Department staff wrote that high-level officials do not want press materials to include three specific phrases: “de-escalation/ceasefire,” “end to violence/bloodshed” and “restoring calm.””
Netanya corners “Sleepy Joe” the year before election, when his opponents are all saber rattling with words like “weak”.
I knew Netanyahu was going to be a problem when he manipulated his way back to office.
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It’s important that a countries diplomats stay on a consistent message.
It is. And that message is clear as a bell: “No Gaza ‘De-Escalation’ Talk.” The administration does not want peace here, and it does not want de-escalation. It is important for analysts to understand the motivation of the players. Then they can go about the work of trying to ascertain why the US administration does not want peace or de-escalation when it would appear the citizenry of the US want these things. It does serve as a tremendous distraction, and there is much from which they may desire to distract.
What would be a fair solution if person A and person B have committed equal crimes against each other disputing their outright claim to property Y?
The only one humanity has come up with is war. Messy business but it does get cleaned up….at least for a while.
Might makes right.
Russia certainly thought so.
Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.
It is an old human tradition.
Four years of high school Latin and all I can remember is “Puella”, and of course, “Veni Vidi Vici”, it spoke to my priorities at the time.
CNN Reporter: ‘I am Sorry’ for Repeating Claims Hamas Beheaded Babies
CNN reporter Sara Sidner issued an apology after defending Israel’s claims that Hamas beheaded babies during last weekend’s attack on a live broadcast, acknowledging that the reports were not confirmed, Anadolu news agency reported.
Sinder took to the social media platform X to explain what had happened:
“Yesterday the Israeli Prime Minister’s office said that it had confirmed Hamas beheaded babies & children while we were live on the air. The Israeli government now says today it CANNOT confirm babies were beheaded. I needed to be more careful with my words and I am sorry.”
She continued, “The words I used were the PM’s office must have proof if they are confirming this. Then President Biden confirmed seeing it. And then backed tracked.”
https://www.palestinechronicle.com/cnn-reporter-i-am-sorry-for-repeating-claims-hamas-beheaded-babies/
From Alice’s Restaurant by Arlo Guthrie
===========
And I walked in, I sat down, they gave me a piece of paper that said: “Kid,
See the psychiatrist in room 604.”
I went up there, I said, “Shrink, I want to kill. I want to kill! I want to see
blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth! Eat dead, burnt bodies! I
Mean: Kill. Kill!”
And I started jumpin’ up and down, yellin’ “KILL! KILL!” and he started
Jumpin’ up and down with me, and we was both jumpin’ up and down, yellin’,
“KILL! KILL! KILL! KILL!” and the sergeant came over, pinned a medal on me,
Sent me down the hall, said “You’re our boy”. Didn’t feel too good about it.
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/a/arlo+guthrie/alices+restaurant_20518619.html
I remember when that was released, and I referenced it in a pastel drawing I did as a boy. But I’m not sure how it relates.
I remember his father as well…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxiMrvDbq3s
“Yesterday the Israeli Prime Minister’s office said that it had confirmed Hamas beheaded babies & children while we were live on the air. The Israeli government now says today it CANNOT confirm babies were beheaded. I needed to be more careful with my words and I am sorry.”
This is Netanyahu’s government, God, please get him out.
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Arguably it may take an act of God. He has proven truly tenacious.
Mish, when was the last time you were in Dearborn Michigan?
It’s not about Israel. It’s about democracy, liberty and even more, it’s about not being a believer in the one true faith.
We have seen brutal islamic terrorist attacks against civilians in Europe, America, Russia, China, Thailand… Always with rhe same excuse: oh, we poor muslims are maltreated… we MUST rule this country.
Indiscriminate killing of civilians is an act of terrorism by definition. The recent terrorist attack by Hamas is shocking in it’s brutality.
From January 2005, when the conflict began to change dramatically, until July of 2014, it had killed 4,006 people, of whom 168 have been Israeli and 3,838 Palestinian.
Almost half of the Palestinians in Gaza are children. It’s not hard to understand that when you treat children as caged animals that they can grow up to bite you the first chance they get.
What I find most peculiar is how people with good critical thinking skills seem overwhelmingly unaware of the cause and effect in this conflict.
“What I find most peculiar is how people with good critical thinking skills seem overwhelmingly unaware of the cause and effect in this conflict.”
I’ll be honest, I’m pleasantly surprised that almost no one here is blindly backing Israel without at least mentioning the other side of the argument, Israel’s wrongs against Palestine/Gaza.
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Yes. I condemn all hate and violence; by any country; any group; any individual.
I am certainly not an expert, but I will share my opinion on violence. Feel free to criticize me.
Violence is intertwined with all human history. It is virtually impossible to stop. Violence begets more violence. Once a cycle of violence begins, it is incredibly difficult to stop it from accelerating. The worst violence occurs when entire groups begin a culture of hate against another group. Which is often based on differences in religion, politics or race. Eventually the hatred grows to the point of violence.
Anyone who promotes hatred is part of the problem. And I see a lot of it from “a few” of the commenters here.
As always, there is nothing I can do to change this. And I would block those folks if possible so I would no longer have to read their posts.
Well said.
Hamas are just like the Nazi’s, disagree with there view of their world and you will be eliminated. Evil organizations, the people responsible should be held accountable for their actions and removed from society.
Hamas are just like the Nazi’s, disagree with there view of their world and you will be eliminated. Evil organizations, the people responsible should be held accountable for their actions and removed from society.
Europeans came and took land from the indigenous people and confined them to squalid reservations. Occassionally young men would escape from the reservations and go on a rampage, brutalizing those who had taken their land and fenced them in on their reservation. Then the descendants of the settlers from Europe would respond with superior weapons, defeat the raiders, retaliate against the indigenous population, destroy their homes and relocate them again.
Yes, I’m talking about both North America and the middle east. Only the terminology has changed.
But the apparent solution was to give the NA Indians gambling franchises and let them wear historical clothing.
Perhaps Israel could take a lesson?
Do not forget the reservation’s untaxed tobacco sales.
jeco wrote “Yes, I’m talking about both North America and the middle east. ”
– And you could also be talking about South America, Australia, New Zealand, Russia expanding east, China expanding, New Caledonia, Hawaii, likely some more places.
– At least, for the fans of the indigenous team, the indigenous won in South Africa and a few other places.
The indigenous LOST in South Africa. The actual locals are the bushmen of the Kalahari. The Boers and Bantus and others all migrated there some 400 years ago and mostly displaced the Bushmen. Then late 19th century the English came and the the Boer War gave Britain control.
Israel has no choice but to annihilate Hamas. If your next-door neighbor lived only for the death and destruction of you and your complete family you would do ANYTHING to stop it. Unfortunately, too many Arabs continue to giving power to the evil slime that celebrates death.
Who will condemn those who unleashed myocarditis on the world?
Oh what the heck, I will. Damn those people! DAMN THEM!
Ed Dowd conservatively estimates that 300,000 in the U.S. have died from the Covid shots. Just where is the accountability for that, Zardoz? We were lied to, that the shots were safe and effective. They were neither. The government continues to push these unsafe shots on the U.S. public. There is nothing funny about all the serious injuries and deaths from the Covid shots.
Take a violent prisoner and stick them in a maxi max cell. They have nothing to lose so they throw feces and fight and try to kill anyone they approach. Add on some fanatical religion and that’s pretty much Hamas.
So now, genocide, ethnic cleansing, Final Solutions and Warsaw Ghetto practices are OK – as long as Israel does them. Looks like the world is OK with that – unless bribes to Egypt can be greatly increased.
A truly profound example of the failure of the “international order” that Russia rails against.
“New Rule: If you cannot openly and honestly blast Hamas for these actions, then do not bother complaining about any response by Israel.”
But we must be sure of one thing: when this military action by Israel is over, the accounts will be done (especially in the South), and the number of innocent victims in each camp will be compared. So Israel must be careful, the difference must not be too enormous.
“I suspect Rashida Tlaib will not longer be a member of the House after the next election.”
Sorry, Mish. But you made a fool out of yourself with that statement.
Tlaib’s *margin of victory* was 60 PERCENT in 2022. She’s about as likely to lose MI-13 as Paul Gosar is to lose AZ-9. If you doubt me, take a drive through Dearborn and Livonia Michigan some time. The Democratic party could oust her and won’t make a bit of difference. She can run as an Independent. With her current popularity in her district she’s operating in a rarefied atmosphere.
A much more likely development would be that Josh Gottheimer (NJ-5) will switch parties and endorse war-mongering lunatic Nikki Haley.
Small correction for the above – Tlaib’s district is MI-12, not MI-13. But Dearborn & Livonia are parts of her district.
» chopping off babies heads, children being burned alive, and women being raped «
None of these tales have been substantiated, nor will any public evidence ever surface.
She did not refuse to condemn Hamas; she just didn’t engage with a presstitute pushing sensationalist atrocity porn. She did well not to engage.
Like the stories about eating babies, little girls raped in front of their families, Ghaddafi troops using Viagra to better rape — these stories are almost never confirmed and often disproved. They are a staple of MSM disinformation campaigns, and are as old as the world (and war).
Why don’t we see stories about Israeli colonists who said the Hamas fighters were very polite and reassured them that no harm would come to them, even asking if it was okay to take a banana. There are many such stories. There is never a single story and a single dividing line between the humans and the evil sub-jumans.
indeed more likely. the israeli war lobby in pax dumbphuckistan is wildly out of control. of course israel is our pawn, but the pawn put their tentacles around our testes. so it’s a suicide pact with 2 vile players……….israel and imperial pax dumbphuckistan. i wonder if there are any more nasty regimes we can fund. let’s count. bin laden and mujahadeen. israel and hamas. ukraine nazis. there must be more out there.
This is a war between religious zealots. Israeli zealots vs. Arab zealotS.
This has been going on for a thousand years all over the world. It is basically terrorists on both sides terrorizing each other.
You have the jew ghetto on one side and the gaza ghetto on the other.
Gangbangers on gangbangers.
Who cares let them kill each other off.
Rashida Tlaib*(D)
196,601 71%
Steven Elliott(R)
72,889 26%
Gary Walkowicz(W)
8,046 3%
Hamas sealed their fate this week with their reaction to Israel’s taking a Mosque.
Up to now, they were starting to build international sympathy for their situation, that’s gone.
That said, while I agree with the outrage over Israel’s raped and murdered women and children, let’s not forgot the same is happening in Ukraine, on a much larger scale.
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Frilton Miedman wrote “with their [Hamas] reaction to Israel’s taking a Mosque.”
– Israel has not taken the mosque, not yet, that they are complaining about, Al Aqsa, third-most holy in Islam, located in al-Haram al-Sharif (Temple Mount). (The (south end) of its Western Wall) is the most holy in Judaism.)
– Since taking back Jerusalem and reopening access to the Western Wall, Israel has mostly let Muslims run al-Haram al-Sharif. Excepting occasions when Muslims in Al Aqsa mosque rain stones on Jews praying at the Western Wall.
In recent years some zealous Jews have insisted on entering al-Haram al-Sharif and praying there. In the compound, not in Al Aqsa mosque itself. That has provoked Muslim outrage.
While I am concerned that Israel’s response may look genocidal in the end, one fact is important to keep in perspective. One of these two peoples will intentionally use and celebrate using civilians as shields. Hamas will fire rockets from schools and hospitals so a return of fire will lead to Israel killing innocent schoolchildren and hospital patients/doctors. It is part of Hamas’s strategy and it is borne of their belief systems. Now imagine Israel killing or using its own people in the same way. Unfathomable ? Yes. Cultural differences must be kept in mind here. Bearing this in mind I”m much less horrified by Israel telling Palestinians to move south out of their land in advance of the coming ground invasion.
“Hamas will fire rockets from schools and hospitals ….”
I agree, it’s savage, they’re unscrupulous animals and we should stop them.
Meanwhile, Russia fires rockets and missiles directly AT schools and hospitals on a much larger scale.
Why is one more important than another?
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Because the Israel/Palestinian stuff is new news.
Everyone is tired of the Ukraine/Russian news that is going nowhere.
If the children of the Israelis had had no prospects, no future, and lived in grinding poverty and slow attrition of their land and rights for their entire lives, they could well grow up into the kind of person that sees civilians as already dead. The ones that don’t want to fight are just a burden that keeps you from being strong enough to fight back. I don’t think any of us have ever experienced the relentless burning hatred that comes from having a boot crushing your face for your entire life.
Then there’s the fact that they’re confined to Gaza. They couldn’t attack from or retreat to anywhere else… which should have been ample reason not to attack.
If the attacks actually took years for Hamas to plan, then there are still many more Israeli assets they will blow up. Throw in the distinct possibility of a proxy war, and Hamas has access to supplies that will draw out military activity for many more months. War here could allow war to pop up in Asia.
Forget about Hamas and worry more (far more) about Hezbollah. Hamas is outfitted for asymmetric warfare & terrorism. Hamas is very well equipped for actual, kinetic ground war.
Comparing Hamas to Hezbollah is like comparing a Flyweight boxer to a Cruiserweight.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali is from Palestine. She has a brilliant, honest article about the tragedy in the mid east. It is in today’s Daily Mail (UK). Her insights are wonderful. I hope everyone reads this.
She is from Somalia not Palestine. She is a first rate Israeli supplicant however, as are all journalists who are in it for the money.
The ignorance of our country’s college population protesters is astonishing.
Democracy dies from within not from without. Witness these protests.
Martin Luther King succinctly described what we are witnessing today, ” Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity “
You are absolutely right. But if you knew of the BS they are taught, you would hear they are spewing the same nonsense.
Hunt the murderers down and end them.
But then realize, they weren’t born wanting to murder Israelis. They have lived their lives around a major bully who is bigger than they are, richer, much better armed and trained and if truth be told smarter in most cases. The Gaza strip was nothing more than an open air prison run by Israel.
Now, yes, it got like that because Palestinians would do crimes and small acts of terrorism and so their neighborhoods were occupied by armed soldiers, fences, checkpoints barbed wire and no-go zones. But why did they do those initial acts? Well, maybe its because they have controlled and lived in the region for about 2000 years. And then Israel comes from nowhere to move in and take over by force. It’s now clear that Israel was planning to displace, not coexist and so they colonize your historical lands. They came in well heeled, well armed and with international (usa big brother) support. It would tend to piss me off. If the American indians knew back in the 1600s what they know now, they would be fools not to gut and stash every single white man that ever landed on their shores.
The single-most level-headed comment on this page.
I agree, the best solution is to demand Hamas turn them over, if not we go in and take them, I cannot possibly imagine what they did is condoned by the populace at large.
Though, for some, it’s just easier to generalize & hate an entire populace.
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There are billions of people. It would take many lifetimes to sort them into love and hate lists, so we generalize.
European immigrants from the East landed and killed off a host of Russian immigrants from the West that had landed about 14,000 years earlier. Of course this is all irrelevant because they were both Africans.
we are nothing more than talking apes. human primates. go study anthropology for a decade and learn about humanity. pro tip, the first debts and money were human primates offspring. only primates willing to sell our own children to pay for stuff we wanted. try that with a gorilla or chiimp…………
I guess the Palestinians should have built a real army to defend their interests. Even tiny Kuwait has an army!
It was one of the worst moves of the twentieth century to flood Palestine with European Jews.
They were caucasian, not semitic, and never had the right to displace the inhabitants. It’s been generations of a slow extermination campaign.
Will the Jews call that a holocaust or is it only when it’s done to them?
The Bible says that’s where they go, so that’s where they put ’em. Can’t argue with the sky wizard.
My God’s bigger than your God, so I’m gonna have my God beats yours up.
it’s the same god. which is the real LOL. abrahamic trio. batshit dumbfuckery.
Jews always lived in Palestine, long before the first century when the Romans renamed Israel – Syria Palestina – later shortened to Palestine. European Jews started moving to Palestine in the 1870’s after they were invited by the Ottomans and encouraged by Ottoman legislation that for the first time in 350 years offered Jews equal rights to Muslims, including the right to buy land, operate businesses and obtain protection from Ottoman police and courts. The Arabs have been furious ever since.
yes. now do the crusades…………
The Jews lived through those as well.
Neil Meliment wrote “It was one of the worst moves of the twentieth century to flood Palestine with European Jews.”
– Quite a large number of Jews who resettled in Israel are Sephardic Jews who came from Arab countries. The numbers of Sephardic Jews is now about == to the number of Ashkenazi (European) Jews, and the Sephardic Jews vote Likud.
Neil Meliment wrote “Will the Jews call that a holocaust or is it only when it’s done to them?”
Israel notes that Turkey committed genocide against Armenians during WWI. And most everyone notes that Stalin committed genocide, a deliberate famine, against Ukraine, which is known as the ‘Holodomor’.
Most of the people I met from Ukraine/Russia/USSR whose parents suffered Holodomor felt it was impossible to say whether the circumstances were engineered and deliberate, or simply a function of stupidity, unwillingness to recognize the limitations of a planned economy, and bad luck. From what I have read, it would be difficult to parse with any certainty. It’s always difficult to distinguish between nefarious intent and pure stupidity on the part of the government. Here in the US we have never heard anything apart from how evil Stalin was. Americans would be astonished at the number of people in Russia today who see him in anything from a neutral way to a positive light. I was and still am.
the story and documentary on how hoover and his wife, saved millions of russians and ukranians from starvation is really amazing. check it out. they were probably the best couple by far to ever be in power in usa.
Thank you for that bit of information – I was entirely unaware of it. I was also unable to find much about it. This is the most complete description:
“In 1921 one of the most devastating famines in history threatened the lives of millions of Russians as well as the continuance of Soviet rule. Responding to a plea for help from the Soviet government. the American Relief Administration (ARA) agreed to provide famine relief in the stricken areas. The ARA was a private relief organization headed by Herbert Hoover, then U.S. secretary of commerce and one of the best-known Americans of his time for his spectacular success in rescuing the population of Belgium from starvation during World War I and in feeding millions of Europeans during the Armistice. Hoover was also a retired capitalist of considerable wealth, a champion of Republican liberalism, and a leading opponent of recognition of Soviet Russia. Leninhead of the Sovet government, leader of the Bolshevik party, and living symbol of world revolutionwas the antithesis of the ARA’s chief. This book studies the personalities, motives, and modi operandi of these two celebrated figures, both as indivduals and as representatives of their societies. At the same time it considers the relief mission itself, which has been the subject of continuing controversy for fifty years. Its partisans see it as a charitable, nonpolitical enterprise, while its enemies judge it an anti-Soviet intervention entirely devoid of humanitarian purpose. Herbert Hoover and Famine Relief for Soviet Russia is the first major attempt by an American scholar to reexamine the ARA mission, on the basis of much material made available since the ARA’s 1927 official history. What emerges is, on the one hand, a painstaking examination of the historical details of ARA’s mission and, on the other hand, a philosophic essay relating the ARA to broader questions of U.S.-Soviet relations the ideological antitheses of Hoover and Lenin. The author concludes that both sides overcame their ideological antagonisms and made possible a spectacularly successful relief mission that inspired the vain hope that a new era in Soviet-American relations had begun.”
That’s from the Hoover Institution…
https://www.hoover.org/research/herbert-hoover-and-famine-relief-soviet-russia-1921-1923
People generally prefer to paint things as black or white, as this is simpler and requires a great deal less thought. Not much in the universe which is extreme ever lasts for long. If the people who lived through it have mixed impressions, certainly those who study it after the fact will receive mixed impressions. It is ghastly to think of so many starving, and have to consider the reality that it could certainly happen again.
Hamas just got 10s of thousands of people slaughtered for nothing. There was no strategic or diplomatic payoff for this action. Their attack was a tantrum. They increased the hatred exponentially, and made it really clear that genocide is the only thing that will end this violence.
That’s a really dumb thing to do if your enemy has massive military superiority.
Wrong, everybody was trying to claim to make peace in the Middle East without dealing with the Palestinians first, do they also have a “Right of return”, how are their land claims to be settled, since we pay massive amount of welfare dollars to israel- don’t we also have to make the same payments to Palestinians too?..I’m in favor of calling it Quits in Israel, just not worth the money…
Millions of Palestinians live peacefully in Jordan. Jordan is a lot bigger than Israel.
Millions more live in other Arab countries but in most of those countries they are treated differently than other Arabs such as not being able to acquire citizenship. It’s a policy that the Arab League came up with to torment the Palestinians to pressure them to need to fight Israel to have somewhere they can have roots (by expelling the Jews).
But 75 years later they are still rootless, in part due to likes of Arafat of whom it was said that he never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Instead of getting an independent homeland of Gaza and most of the West Bank, including a chunk of Jerusalem they now have squat. And with Orthodox Jews having so many children they will both set the agenda and will dominate the Israeli government. Meaning the Palestinians have missed the chance that they had and may never get it again.
Jordan gave up sovereignty over the West Bank in 1988 because they had had it with the Palestinians and wanted to wash their hands of it all. That is still true to this day.
This will only end if the West Bank and Gaza Palestinian enclaves are broken up and the existing Palestinians are sent packing to other Arab countries.
Israel should maintain its blockade of Gaza, only allowing water and medicine inside. Eventually, the Gaza Palestinians will have no choice to move to the West Bank or like so many economic and political refugees from Africa and Asia, move to Europe.
Unfortunately for the Palestinians, no one wants them. Egypt has blocked them from entering and Jordan has turned back many trying to join their brethren in the Palestinian refugee camps there.
Palestinians should be asking themselves why their fellow Arabs want nothing to do with them?
Certainly, no sane country wants a population that has shown itself unable to control its birth rate such that Gaza is the most densely populated place on the planet, over 50% of their people are currently under the age of 15 and of those between 16-24 years, the age of much testosterone and much involvement in trouble, 66% are unemployed. This is why 85% of Gaza depends on handouts from the U.N. and various bleeding heart organizations to survive.
Palestinians can no longer afford to move to the West Bank as the Israeli illegal settlements have driven up real estate prices.
Nobody thought Jared brought peace to the Middle East… not even his mom.
If they wanted to send a message, the world is drowning in social media.
Slaughtering civilians isn’t a message. It’s a crime, and people hate you for doing it.
I hope there isn’t 10’s of thousands of Hamas terrorists to kill. Ideally only a few thousand to round up but either way, all the terrorists that can be identified need to be killed off.
On the other hand if you are talking about 10’s of thousands of civilians, I highly doubt the rest of the world, particularly the Arab nations will stand around idly while that happens.
Gaza is packed with people, and I don’t see the Israeli troops being particularly worried about collateral damage. A bigger worry is “does that big eyed kid have a bomb strapped to him?”
We’re good at looking the other way. They’ve got the power off, and the fact that the media isn’t absolutely flooded with disaster and maimed people videos makes me think they might have the internet and cellular networks down too. That’ll make it easier for us.
This one’s booked… on to the next atrocity!
Don’t you think that Hamas militants will be hiding among the civilians?
The civilians need to point them out and turn them over to Israel.
“The civilians need to point them out and turn them over to Israel.”
This is the only possible way Palestine could avoid annihilation, I just can’t see any other way than for Palestine to remove itself from these actions, quickly.
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Genocide is a two way street. One nuclear weapon can inevitably finish Israel.
When frustration drives you into insanity you get irrational outcomes.
“That’s a really dumb thing to do if your enemy has massive military superiority.”
Exactly, the world could care less about the demise of savages, Netanyahu played them like a cheap fiddle, and to be clear, I despise Netanyahu.
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i think it’s first inning in the new world war. russia got ukraine they wanted. china, and russia and iran against israel. with amerika as an ally? we are the worst allies. we cut and run and leave our allies to slaughter in past 70 years. i feel sorry for israel. they are dumb. brutal. but dumb. hamas are kooks, who have been born and raised in a prison with raw sewage dumped on them from israel for 3 generations now. to expect them NOT to be rabid animals is also very stupid. palestine is a rabid pawn for arab world. israel is a dumb pawn for amerikan empire.
Don’t Palestinians also have the right to self defense? Israel murders children, bombs them while playing on a beach, cuts off water, food, medicine, bombs hospitals, wantonly destroys infrastructure in violation of international law and human decency. Disgusting that anyone could support this regardless of Hamas.
So here’s a corollary: If you cannot openly and honestly blast Israel for imprisoning and murdering Palestinians ON THEIR OWN LAND, then do not bother complaining about any response by Palestinians .
It’s possible to believe both sides have behaved terribly, and it’s possible for that to belief to be absolutely true. I tend to lean that way, but I don’t know a lot about all the history that brought things to this point, and half of that is probably lies. Their religious nuttery and fetish for performing incompatible rituals in old buildings is definitely an aggravating factor… and I gotta wonder why one of their gods don’t put an end to this nonsense.
Bad behavior should be condemned and prosecuted. It don’t matter which side the person that did it was on, and it don’t matter that somebody on the other side did it too. Bad is bad.
The gods became disgusted and have left the building.
never gods in buildings men create and claim they talk to gods………it’s all just one big scam for power. anthropology 101. learned that freshman year…………
The Palestinians have had several excellent chances to make peace with Israel and have their own state. They rejected these opportunities every time. The most promising was the 2000 Camp David Summit hosted by Bill Clinton. A peace agreement was all but signed that would give the Palestinians practically every thing they wanted for a state, but at the last minute Arafat pulled out of the agreement by saying he wanted millions of Palestinians scattered all over the middle east to be allowed to live in Israel proper. A non-starter.
Clinton later told Arafat “I failed because of you.”
It is called “The Right of Return” and it is international law in just about every country – except for Israel and the Palestinians. How inconsiderate of Arafat to decline waving a right of all other Palestinians.
Not practical in this case because it would be inviting into the country millions who want its destruction. It is the best example of something that sounds good and moral on paper but would be kill more people in reality.
“Since 2015, the General Assembly has adopted 140 resolutions criticizing Israel, mainly over its treatment of the Palestinians, its relationships with neighboring countries and other alleged wrongdoings. Over the same period, it has passed 68 resolutions against all other countries, UN Watch (2022) said.”
“Don’t Palestinians also have the right to self defense? I”
In recent years I have begun to feel empathy for them, and to a degree still do, I was gravely concerned with Netanyahu’s sleazy return to power.
But for the love of God, they beheaded children, what moronic way is that to win hearts and minds?
They ONLY salvation for Palestine is to turn over the individuals that did this, there won’t be any peace deal from it, but at least the billions globally who are horrified will at least see this isn’t endorsed by Palestinians.
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much cleaner to just have stinger missilles on hovering drones over poor villages in world, and terrorizing the kids for years……….hat tip snowden and others……….
You still don’t get it This was a planned false flag attack just like 911 There were no murdered babies just like no incubator babies in Kuwait Are you really that dumb and gullible Guess so
LM wrote ” wantonly destroys infrastructure in violation of international law and human decency. ”
– And we and Britain did it to Germany and Japan during WWII. Was it a violation of international law then?
LM wrote “Israel murders children, bombs them while playing on a beach, cuts off water, food, medicine, bombs hospitals,”
– It is Hamas that puts military weapons and stores ammunition underneath hospitals.
– A significant difference between Israel and Hamas is that it takes much less to provoke Hamas to attack, and the attacks Hamas makes are heinous.. Israel makes these attacks only after a major Hamas provocation, and it warns the residents of Gaza before any target is actually hit.
Israel has made some generous offers to Palestinian leaders in the past. Those offers have been rejected. Israel has also offered to transfer these territories to Egypt and Jordan. They have refused. The occupation was rather less harsh decades ago. Palestinian conduct, attacking Israel, has caused Israel to tighten screws over the years.
Well, if you also don’t complain about evil Israeli actions, aren’t you just as guilty? Evicting Palestinians from their homes in Jerusalem, chopping down olive groves that have been their for hundreds of years, destroying Bedouin villages, and many other Palestinian holocausts…
Yes.
Evicting people from their homes is exactly the same as shooting children & raping their mothers.
Really no difference at all.
“Evicting people from their homes is exactly the same as shooting children & raping their mothers.”
I agree, but that doesn’t negate the fact that most of us knew Netanyahu was going to provoke once he wormed his way back to the PM position.
Hamas couldn’t possibly have done a worse thing, any growing global support for their cause is gone now.
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Too early.
Wait until Netanyahu destroys Israel’s good will with serial massacres and destruction of home and infrastructure. I am wondering how happy the Europeans will be will be with a million more Arab immigrants.
Don’t blame Hamas, blame Moses for starting all this.
Not Moses.
Rothschild, British Zionism, and the Balfour Declaration.
Shame on you, Lisa.
People wonder how Hitler came to power. This is how, Lisa.
This is exactly how it happened.
abraham is to blame. all 3 kooky batshit branches of his religion. the same god. which cracks me up in less violent times.
The Israeli army is guilty of those crimes too, stop being naive…Why do you think they kill journalists every chance they get.
Come on Tim You know how brutal the Israeli are to Palestinians including women and children You’re a fool
“Well, if you also don’t complain about evil Israeli actions, aren’t you just as guilty?”
No debate, however, Hamas ended any chance at sympathy when they beheaded children, raped and murdered.
I knew, without question, as soon as Netanya weaseled his way back into the PM office he was going to provoke.
It looks like most knew he would, but Hamas reacted in a way that backs them into a permanent corner, they have to turn over the individuals who did this, there’s no other way, no diplomatic solution.
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Hamas can claim that all those responsible have been killed in this new war.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-2tEmqM1_E. Explains exactly that. Never hear the other side the story. Just what the special interest bought MSM wants you to hear. Wonder why that is.
Sadly you likely don’t know anything about her district. You might as well be in Gaza. Ford Auditorium in Dearborn MI was filled with revealers early this week openly celebrating.
It’s a safe Democrat district but it is not majority Muslim so it is possible that she would lose enough voters in a primary challenge or even in a general election. Stranger things have happened.
More likely that persons who do not support her will leave the district, thus preserving (or even expanding her MOV.
I don’t see how one could not condemn Hamas as the evil they are. I also condemn its allies Iran and Russia. They are one in this and in it together.
Oh, now you done said it….
Russia’s stance on the attack was a cold shower for many Russian Israelis as they understood that Russia actively supports their worst enemies. It was a real shock.
I don’t know how anybody can trust the Russian government for anything at all.
It must not be a shock that radicals that support religious or dictatorial (kinda the same thing) governements in turn supported by dictatorial governments.
A professor friend of mine, Jewish who actively supported other liberals (various minorities) for years, lamenting their woes and saying American Indian prayers over the land that the university stole from them. . . Now feels completely isolated and excluded. Not a single faculty member has provided condolences or said a kind word, while his family was directly impacted by the attack.
The issue at hand is that he believes in populist humanism, while they are stuck in a value system that will only result in slaves and masters at the end. These people that support Hamas, can only end up as slaves to the dictatorial government that will develop afterwards. Israel is simply the “other” that is being used to unify them into a power base for the benefit of the leadership afterwards.
Israel is the prey, but beware attacking those that have beaten their swords into plowshares. When they reverse that process they are a terrible foe.
Well said. Amen.
If you don’t condemn Israel for stealing the land 75 years ago , and 75 years of brutal oppression since , then don’t complain what happens next.
Israel as a US thug proxy in the Mid East is no better than the Ukraine proxy Nato Expansion War.
I think it was Great Britain that stole the land.
No. It was the Ottomans.
Well now you’re going back 500 years.
No, it was the Romans. Let’s keep it going! The Macedonian Greeks. The Assyrians? Babylonians? Ah and then we come to the Jews, they talk about taking the land in the Torah. Let’s give it back to the Caananites, but first let’s add a little science and see that the Jews were probably doing what Christianity did to Judaism and Budhism did to Hinduism. Create propaganda and convert. Anyway it wasn’t just one group before the Jews evolved in the region. Anyway it’s complicated.
It’s much easier to listen to modern narratives, it simps things for the human brain and its easier to fight and die than think and build.
The Arabs were one of the great colonizers of history. They took over and colonized Iraq, Syria, Egypt, and the Maghrib none of which were Arab by blood or culture. If you are against colonizers and you are Arab then you are against yourself unless, of course, you see yourself as good colonizers and all others as bad ones. At least be honest about it.
As a Copt I have to say you are correct. Copt means Egyptian. Arab means from Arabia. And correctly speaking the term Palestinian should only apply to Palestinian Jews like the ones who were driven out of Hebron between the wars by Muslim zealots at the instigation of the Mufti of Jerusalem, the same mufti who went to Germany during the war to dissuade Hitler sending the Jews to mandate Palestine. Hitler then came up with The Final Solution as the alternative.
So post war it was unsurprising that there was the conflict that pushed so many Muslim refugees into Gaza as there was plenty of bad blood.
I think that there is a difference between the Arabs and Israel: the Arabs did not expel the inhabitants of the countries they colonized, they dominated them or tried to convert them. The real country analogous to Israel is (modern) Turkey: the Turks took the lands of millions of Greeks and Armenians. But curiously this provoked much less condemnation than in the case of Israel.
Winston Churchill – a hand in WWI, WWII and WWIII.
That puts the Israelis on the same level as those who buy things from thieves, right?
And then tried to give away stolen property…damn Britain, ask the Irish about their thievery….
Israel was givin their land as part of the WW2 settlement. It is unfortunate that some people do not like that settlement, but that was the deal. World Wars have consequences.
The UN settled the Israeli land issue in 1947 shortly after WW2. Britain did the right thing by turning the land issue over to the UN. The whole world weighted in on the settlement. It is time to move on.
It wasn’t England’s or the U.N.’s to give away. Try this, let give the Jewish people New Mexico, would that be okay, they could wander for 40 years and slaughter the current inhabitants, enslave the survivors and call it good…
But, that is how world wars work. The winners get to redivide things. So, Britain had the authority to delegate that decision to the UN. And, they did.
That is life. It is time to move on.
My best man at my wedding was in the British army serving in Palestine immediately after WW2. He tells of stories driving down through towns getting shot at by Israeli terrorists from one side of the road and Arab land owners from the other.
The Marshall Plan came with a lot of strings.
It was FDR’s plan to do away with colonial empires
The UN was in favor of Israel, right? Well the UN isn’t in favor of settlers grabbing the last bits of land still owned by Palestinians today… But somehow, it’s okay for Israel to be above the UN, do whatever it wants, treat the Palestinians like animals for generations, and demand condemnation for Hamas to actually start acting like animals.
Agreed. And that is why the USA should not be to keen to instigate another.
Except if we expected to come out on top.
Not theirs to give, slight problem there…ask the Irish about how they feel about English thieves…
Shouldn’t you be complaining for the American Indians as well?
This is not correct at all. Israel was supposed to be created in 1920 per the League of Nations Mandate of Palestine. The British were put in charge of implementing the Mandate. But they were cowed by Arab resistance and threats to exclude British companies from developing the Arab oil fields. Britain’s Peel Commission offered a compromise that the Arabs rejected. Later, the British blocked all Jewish immigration to Palestine starting in the early 1930’s and this ban was not lifted until 1948. After WW II the United Nations was formed and its charter required the fulfillment of the 1920 League of Nations Mandate to establish a Jewish Homeland in Palestine, which the UN accomplished in May of 1948.
The first thing the Zionists did in 1948 was to expand the land they were given, seizing the Negev in Southern Israel, and other regions. They call it the war of Independence, but they were doing to Palestinians the same thing that Hamas is doing to the exact same villages.
Wasn’t anybody’s to give away, you can’t steal something and give it away…
Actually, Muslims stole the land in the 7th century, just as they stole Turkey from Greeks and Armenians, Egypt from Copts, North Africa from Berbers, Iran from Zoroastrians, and the list goes on.
The land belonged to the Ottomans, since 1500. In 1920 they turned it over to the League of Nations, who unanimously voted to establish a Mandate for Palestine to create a homeland for the Jewish people. Where and how did Arabs acquire rights to the land?
Hmm .. conquering is how all land was taken for millenia. There never was a Palestine … but the people on every square inch of land in the world are there because the conquered the people who were on it before them … who had conquered the people who were on it before them … When asked about giving land back to the indigenous peoples … Theodore Roosevelt asked … which peoples. He went thru just the last 4 or 5 iterations of people being run off the land. The Brits took the land (yes, colonization … like has been happening for thousands of years). It has fallen out of vogue now … but to act as if the Palestinians walked into this pristine land thousands of years ago and built a peaceful harmonious society harming nobody (or to believe a similar case is the fact with any land) … is naive at best.
Never a Palestine.
Ever heard of David & Goliath and the Philistines (=Palestine)?
3000 years ago
You need to familiarize yourself with a little history before you express yourself. The jews were in Israel long before 75 years ago. There was a reporter whose name I imagine you are very familiar with, one “Karl Marx” who worked in journalism and wrote for both German and English language publications. From 1852 to 1862, he was a correspondent for the “New York Daily Tribune,” writing a total of 355 articles. He also wrote articles for the Times of London, one of which dealt with the jews in Israel who were remaking and modernizing the area by building canals, etc. along with planting trees (which will change the micro climate for the better) etc.
Further, the land was not stolen by the jews but set aside by the British as a result of their victory in WWI, as the British government decided to endorse the establishment of a Jewish home in Palestine with the contents of this letter becoming known as the Balfour Declaration.
Haj Amin, who emerged as the leading figure in Palestinian politics during the mandate period, first began to organize small groups of suicide groups, fedayeen (“one who sacrifices himself”), to terrorize Jews in 1919 in the hope of duplicating the success of Kemal in Turkey and drive the Jews out of Palestine, just as the Turkish nationalists were driving the Greeks from Turkey. The first large Arab riots began in Jerusalem on April 4, 1920, during the intermediary days of Passover. The Jewish community had anticipated the Arab reaction to the Allies’ convention and was ready to meet it. You might recall that “Amin al-Husseini (also spelled Mohammad Amin al-Husayni), The Grand Mufti of Jersusalem”, who orchestrated many riots and attacks on the jewish community well before the state of Israel was a admirer of one Adolph Hitler and after meeting him in 1940 in Berlin help set up one of if not the most vicious divisions of the “Schutzstaffel” or Waffen-SS called Himmler’s SS Handžar Division, the “muslim” division. I might add of this division brutality, it became the only time Himmler had to issue an order to stop killing everyone because they weren’t leaving anyone for slave labor.
It was the WW II Palestinian collaboration with the Nazi’s that motivated many Arabs to leave Israel in 1948 because they saw how collaborators in Europe and North Africa were treated and they feared similar treatment from Israeli’s after the creation of the State of Israel.
Jews & Arabs lives peacefully in Palestine all the way up until the late 1800’s when Zionism became a thing. The Balfour Declaration of WW1 started the international move towards a Jewish homeland.
The UN Partition of Palestine was rejected by the Palestinians (maybe for good reasons at the time), but what most people don’t understand is the TransJordan included 80% of what was old Palestine. So Jordan really is the Palestinian state. It’s that simple.
And the grim reality is that for countries like Iran, it’s not about establishing a Palestinian state but about destroying Israel.
It’s amazing to think that the reverberations of the actions over a century ago are still rattling the world today.
“The Balfour Declaration (“Balfour’s promise” in Arabic) was a public pledge by Britain in 1917 declaring its aim to establish “a national home for the Jewish people” in Palestine.
The statement came in the form of a letter from Britain’s then-foreign secretary, Arthur Balfour, addressed to Lionel Walter Rothschild, a figurehead of the British Jewish community. ”
No surprise to see the ‘red shield’ mixed up in this.
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2018/11/2/more-than-a-century-on-the-balfour-declaration-explained
Possession is 9/10’s of the law and the Jews are currently in possession.
Russia certainly believes in this principle as evidenced by its annexation of the Donbas and Crimea.
13 U.S. states expanded their control all the way to the Pacific Ocean, even though they did not own all that land when the U.S. Constitution was written. The U.S. is now an empire with military in over 100 other countries.
I don’t think the people of the Donbas or Crimea want to be part of Ukraine. Why wasn’t there a vote to allow the people of the Donbas to decide for themselves? Ukraine was also practicing possession is 9/10 of the law. They had no intention of giving those people their independence.
RonJ wrote “13 U.S. states expanded their control all the way to the Pacific Ocean, even though they did not own all that land when the U.S. Constitution was written. ”
– Carelessness in using the verb “own”. First the US acquired sovereignty over that land. Later they acquired ownership, by other treaties, from the Indian tribes (mostly).
RonJ wrote “I don’t think the people of the Donbas or Crimea want to be part of Ukraine. Why wasn’t there a vote to allow the people of the Donbas to decide for themselves?”
– There was a vote, in 1991. A majority in the Donbas and in Crimea voted to separate from the USSR as part of Ukraine.
– It is fair to ask if there has been a fair vote since then about the status of those two regions. Russia claims there has been a fair vote, to separate from Ukraine and join Russia.
Crimea functioned as The Autonomous Republic of Crimea for roughly a century. They never ceded autonomy and in fact consistently asserted autonomy, in accordance with all relevant international law. That’s not to say other entities didn’t run roughshod over them. They did. But the legal requirements for autonomy were maintained until Russia took control and a vote was taken. The Autonomous Republic of Crimea maintained a land registry for all land in Crimea up until they became part of Russia. That may seem contradictory to things some of you have read and it may seem somewhat incredible. I have a law degree and have practiced law, I lived in Crimea in 2010, and I attempted to buy property there in 2012. The people there were over 90% staunchly pro-Russian. Many harbored deep resentment at having been left a part of Ukraine. I have heard people say Crimeans voted “at the barrel of a gun.” That is not the case. There were two or three soldiers near the polling area in Simferopol, some of who were unarmed. There was no pressure. They have been polled repeatedly since and their politics have only become more strongly pro-Russian since that time.
The Donbass has never asserted its autonomy. They rebelled and established an alternative authority. It too is predominantly pro-Russian, but not so much so as Crimea.
Russia annexed those areas for totally different reasons and they are ethnically Russian Terrible comparison Not to mention that they feel threatened rightfully with the prospect of NATO on their border Thanks to creeps like Hitlary, Nudelman and John McCain stirring up trouble in 2014
ROTFLMAO! Stolen land my butt. All sorts of countries were created after WWI & II. The only difference those countries aren’t owned by a death cult like Hamas.
When I was young I liked Israel as it fought back much stronger Arab states and after reading Mossad novels.
When I get old I can see its not right. Jews stole and still stealing Palestine land and forcefully remove Palestine from their homes and land, killing protesters and journalists.
That’s human nature. Nazi committed genocide against Jews and now Jews are committed genocide against Palestine ( more or less )
Now two states solution is in the dust bin and strong Israel will totally wipe out Palestine state.
Palestine are now modern Red Indian. They have to stay under Jews and slowly displaced and wiped out.
We should condemn Hamas but we should recognise their legitimate right.
What’s about Palestine state?
Why?
Where?
When?
How?
Peace wrote “What’s about Palestine state? Why? Where? When? How?”
Someone has already referenced the Greek and Turkish settlement in the early 1920s. Mass population exchanges between the two countries.
– Applied to this situation, since 1948 all of the Arab countries have (mostly) expelled their Jewish populations. They were resettled in Israel. It would be right, then, for Israel to expel the Palestinians. They can be resettled on the property in Arab countries take earlier from Jews.
Well written and 6 stupid Americans downvoted your truth Typical
The Pals have turned down every state offered to them. Here are dates of seven potential two-state solutions that Israel agreed to, and the Palestinians rejected:
1937–British Peel Commission recommending two states–Israel said yes; Arab states and Palestinians said NO!!!
1947–UN Resolution creating two states–Israel agreed; Arab states and Palestinians said NO!!! Six Arab states invaded Israel instead of accepting a two-state solution.
1949-1967–Anytime during this period, Egypt and Jordan could have established a Palestinian state on the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem. They chose NOT to do so.
1967–Israel said they would give back the captured territories right after the Six-Day War for a real peace. Arab leaders at Khartoum said NO!!!
2000–Camp David – Under the leadership of President Bill Clinton, Israel agreed to the American compromise providing for two states and a Palestinian Capitol in East Jerusalem. Palestinian President Yasser Arafat said NO!
2001–Taba Proposal–Israel said yes; Arafat said NO!!
2008–Israel offered a two- state solution similar to the Clinton Camp David proposal; Palestinian Abbas said NO!!!
There is only one reason why the Palestinians have refused seven times to accept a two-state solution: They will not agree to allow a Jewish state to exist in the Middle East.
This kind of bigotry, by Western standards, is considered unacceptable, in all cases except the Jews.
Millions of Arabs are living in France, Germany, England, Belgium, etc… This is indigenous European land. Not “their” land. Many are illegals. Hypocritical?
Nothing justifies the slaughter of innocent people you sick f
It was a false flag Einstein Blame Nutty Yahoo and company
Exactly when did Israel steal land 75 years ago? In May of 1948, the UN voted to establish the state of Israel. One day later, 5 Arab armies attacked en mass intending to kill all the Jews or drive them into the sea. I really doubt there was time within that roughly 24-hour period to steal land. Please enlighten me.
Tlaib is a vile woman, but she’ll be back after the next election. She’s only a representation of the animals who put her there, and they’re not going anywhere.