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Those Who Hate Trump and Biden Will Decide the Election

The Haters Will Decide

There’s plenty to dislike about both President Trump and presumed Democrat nominee Joe Biden. 

But once again it’s the haters who will decide the election. And Polls Show Trump is Getting Trounced by the Haters.

Of the nearly 20 percent of voters who disliked both Clinton and Trump in 2016, Trump outperformed Clinton by about 17 percentage points, according to exit polls.

Four years later, that same group — including a mix of Bernie Sanders supporters, other Democrats, disaffected Republicans and independents — strongly prefers Biden, the polling shows. The former vice president leads Trump by more than 40 percentage points among that group, which accounts for nearly a quarter of registered voters, according to a Monmouth University poll last week.

“It’s a huge difference,” said Patrick Murray, who oversees the Monmouth poll. “That’s a group that if you don’t like either one of them, you will vote against the status quo. And in the 2016 election, Hillary Clinton represented more of the status quo than Trump did. In this current election, the status quo is Donald Trump.”

It’s not 2016 anymore, OK?” said Christopher Nicholas, a longtime Republican consultant based in Pennsylvania. “There’s no way Joe Biden will be as bad a candidate as Hillary Clinton.

Devil You Don’t Know

“People like that choose the devil they don’t know,” Nicholas said, rejecting Clinton as a de facto incumbent and instead taking their chances with Trump. “What’s different in 2020? He’s the incumbent. So, he’s the devil you know … That’s why those numbers have flipped so precipitously from ’16 to ’20, and there’s nothing inherent you can do about that, because Trump is the incumbent.”

Make America Great Again

Trump had an amazingly good campaign slogan in 2016 but we were guessing at what her would really do.

In contrast, does anyone even remember her slogan?

I don’t but I could easily look it up. 

Hillary was uniquely despicable. We knew who Hillary was and her disasters as Secretary of State. 

In term of foreign policy, she even received praise from John McCain. How did that sound to the Democrat on the fence?

Let’s flash forward to today.

Failed Promises

  1. Trump did not restore US manufacturing
  2. Trump belittled foreign leaders, even allies. 
  3. Trump did not shrink the deficit even before Covid-19 and now it’s a disaster. 
  4. Trump’s tariffs were a disaster from start to finish. 
  5. Trump handled Covid-19 poorly. 
  6. Trump cut taxes, but the benefits mostly went to the wealthy, not the middle class
  7. Trump did not drain the swamp. 

 If we can have just have a slight bit of honesty, no one can deny those things.

What America Has to Offer

Republican Hypocrites Ignore Trump’s Lies, Praise Irresponsible Budget

In 2016, Trump promised to totally wipe out $19 trillion in national debt over eight years in office. Republicans cheered.
Today, hypocrite republicans cheer a trillion dollar deficit and a national debt projected to rise by about $9 trillion
.”

And long before the coronavirus hit, I wrote  Republican Hypocrites Ignore Trump’s Lies, Praise Irresponsible Budget, so one cannot blame Covid for the miserable deficit.

Trump Will Easily Be Defeated in 2020, Perhaps a Landslide

On December 30, 2019 I proclaimed Trump Will Easily Be Defeated in 2020, Perhaps a Landslide

This Is Not 2016

It’s important to note that this is not 2016. Trump was never well liked, but Hillary was despised.

Yet, despite the fact that Hillary was despised, Trump barely won. People pat themselves on the back for predicting a Trump win. In reality, they were lucky.

No one could have foreseen that Comey would come out of the blue at the last moment with a blast at Hillary. I believe that tipped the election.

A friend believes I am way too confident of this. But I never once expressed a confidence factor.

I will now. My confidence is in the low to mid 60% range. If you want a precise number, call it 64%. 

But most think Trump will win, so the percentage spread vs other bettors is huge.

Trump’s Plus Column

  1. Trump did make two good Supreme Court picks but one was extremely controversial.
  2. He is not Joe Biden

Biden’s Minus Column

  1. Sex allegations, but Trump has those too.
  2. Flip flopping, but Trump changes his mind day to day
  3. Age, but that goes against Trump and Bernie Sanders as well
  4. Life long bureaucrat
  5. Accused of dementia and it may be accurate
  6. Let’s be honest, what the hell did he do? Obamacare? Please! Is that supposed to be a plus?

Biden’s Plus Column

  1. He is not Donald Trump
  2. He is widely liked by blacks.
  3. He might die in office or be removed because of dementia

Biden’s Alleged Dementia is a Plus

Voters will look ahead to what’s next. 

And if Biden has dementia or other health concerns, Democrats can look forward to him serving less than a full term. 

For those who hate both candidates, Biden has the lesser chance of lasting 4 years.

Is that a bad thing?

Mish

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64 Comments
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Chonky
Chonky
5 years ago

There is no such thing as “alternative facts”. There are FACTS and then there are the propagandist lies put out by dumbbald chump and the like.

There is no such thing as “fake news”. There is NEWS and then there are the propagandist lies put out by dumbbald chump and other purveyors of hatred.

There is no such thing as the “alternative right”.

The hate propaganda put out by xenophobic, racist, anti-female, misogynists is not an ALTERNATIVE to philanthropic, humanitarian ideas and truly moral self-conduct.

There is no such thing as “antifa”.
There are DECENT AND MORAL PEOPLE who stand against the putrid propagandist lies of dumbbald chump and other hate-mongers.

Those decent people are not violent. Any measures they take are taken simply as self defence against violence coming from nazis, white supremacists and other bigoted xenophobic organisations.

killben
killben
6 years ago

What happens if Biden is certified with dementia just before the elections? Does Trump get a walkover?

WildBull
WildBull
6 years ago

@BaronAsh News coverage is equally distorted with regard to COVID-19. It makes me begin to think there is a connection beyond bad journalism. It is all beginning to stink the same.

BaronAsh
BaronAsh
6 years ago
Reply to  WildBull

Indeed it is. I believe that above and beyond any national partisan froth, in many countries now is playing out some sort of global civil war, a war between two (or maybe more) systems which are reaching a fork in the road, a decision point. For a while they have been co-existing, much like the UniParty system in US electoral politics, but those days are soon over. In simple terms, it’s the globalist transnational networks (in which China is the emergent manufacturing hub for nearly everything, it seems, including even aspirin apparently), and nation states who want to maintain some sort of sovereignty. Each is becoming anathema to the other.

Much press coverage now is on one side or the other, though most establishment publications are globalist. Globalists push ‘progressive’ agendas not because they believe in each of the particular issues, but because each one erodes a sense of community and solidarity in the population making them easier to control at some point. So the globalist side tends to indulge in far more mind control – which is why it’s no coincidence that all the tech giants now censoring ‘wrongthink’ favour the progressive side.

Anyway, it will sort itself out. I just hope it doesn’t involve the deaths of millions, which, if history is any guide, is usually how these things go. The rich populations involved always believe that really bad stuff could never happen to them, that they have moved beyond such things. And then disaster strikes. If this CV19 ‘pandemic’ has taught us anything, it should be just how vulnerable our civilisation is to rapid, complete collapse.

The Russian asymmetric war-gamers from a couple of decades back may be right. It only takes about 6 weeks to entirely change a population’s sense of reality.

So the next front emerging the next few months is a battle for defining the ‘new normal.’ One side wants things to go back to more or less the same as it was in February. The other side wants far more new regulations and procedures, all of which will increase dependence on central command and control along with the curtailing of individual responsibility and liberty. Vaccine cards, mandatory medical procedures, distance rules, whatever. And in the US since this is happening within the context of a Presidential Election, it could get really weird as it plays out.

I think the Independents will decide it. And they tend to avoid partisan fanaticism of any stripe and favour common sense. Their read on what common sense indicates – more or less centralist command and control – will determine the outcome.

BaronAsh
BaronAsh
6 years ago

More like ‘decided by those who hate Trump enough to vote for Biden, and those who like Trump enough to vote for him.’

Anyone who thinks Biden is a suitable candidate for President is demented. That’s not as insulting as it sounds, given how essentially demented nearly all political news coverage and discussion has become the past twenty years, but even more so since the 2016 election. So much outright lying and hyberbole distorts the mind, so little exposure to and contemplation of ordinary, common sense realities, of the truth, has a deleterious effect on the spirit.

Another way of looking at it might be (especially if they pick a more normal candidate at the Dem convention):

  1. Those who are thirsting for more Swamp Draining and change will vote Trump.
  2. Those who have ‘change fatigue’ and want a return to normalcy, even if that means lots of bad stuff going down behind the scenes but we don’t have to contemplate it all the time and the news coverage will stop being so nasty, hysterical and scary. So a ‘we are tired of all the endless drama’ vote. They will vote against Trump because as long as he is President, the media will continue to spread hatred and hysteria, guaranteed.
MATHGAME
MATHGAME
6 years ago
Reply to  BaronAsh

The previous several thousand posts on the board confirm that there has been no real “swamp draining” … just pretense of doing so.

I LOL at those who don’t understand that the Reps and the Dems, the cons and the libs, every single pair of “them” and “us” are all just “magical” distractions from the real rulers … and by “magical” I mean “watch my right hand! no! watch my left hand” … haha! I’m not even using my hands to get what I want done!”

BaronAsh
BaronAsh
6 years ago
Reply to  MATHGAME

I won’t argue about whether or not there has been Swamp Draining since the Trump Admin has mainly been on defence the entire time fending off some pretty vicious, extensive attacks. The tide might be turning, but it might not, but it does look like some criminal indictments are coming down soon involving the many false charges made against this President after both his election and inauguration.

In any case, it’s already fair to say that the presence of the Swamp has been greatly revealed during this Presidency. It has become far more obvious to a far greater percentage of the population the degree to which some sort of alternative, or ‘Shadow’ State exists within the official Body Politic, one that seems well coordinated amongst Press, Congress, Big Business, Intelligence etc. That, at least, is something.

What I hope is that the criminal indictments are fair and well presented with irrefutable evidence. Then there is a chance that rabid partisans will be forced to consider that maybe so much hatred and hysteria is bad for the country and needs to be dialed down, given that so much of it is based on what are soon to be shown as lies. That too would be something.

Herkie
Herkie
6 years ago

Those Who Hate Trump and Biden Will Decide the Election

Mish, I hate Trump AND Biden but I sincerely doubt I will get to decide anything.

TCW
TCW
6 years ago

I’ll vote for Trump not because I like him but because he keeps our country strong militarily and he will put the right people in the courts. RBG probably won’t last another term and I don’t want Biden replacing her.

gregggg
gregggg
6 years ago

Louis Winthorpe III
Louis Winthorpe III
6 years ago

Mish,

You’d be remiss if you fail to point out that Trump is in worsening stages of dementia. Jr. preemptively attacked Biden for dementia to deflect, but it is Trump they are worried about.

This opinion was written a year ago.

It’s gotten worse since then. There are clear instances of muscle spasm and involuntary loss of control and slurred speech, not to mention recommendations to drink disinfectant.

Felix_Mish
Felix_Mish
6 years ago

This dementia stuff is wandering in to standard-trope land. Remember the well-crafted videos demonstrating GW’s dementia?

SNL had a skit long ago that was two well-crafted videos of guest hosts in the green room. Both guests came across as drooling idiots. Really … serious … blithering idiots.

The two? Daniel Moynihan and Bill Clinton.

Stuki
Stuki
6 years ago

As if it matters one iota.

We live in an undifferentiated financialized dystopia. As such, noone who is not deep into the degraded zone for mental acuity, simply won’t be promoted to a leadership promotion. The more degraded, the higher they rise.

Jdog1
Jdog1
6 years ago

Accomplishments? Is the enslavement of mankind by globalist interests an accomplishment? Perhaps, to the socialists……

LexRex1776
LexRex1776
6 years ago
Reply to  Jdog1

The Founders were isolationists. They gave us the Monroe Doctrine which served us very well for a lot of years. If we hadn’t been led into WWI by Wilson, it would have ended in a stalemate. There wouldn’t have been reparations, and thus, there wouldn’t have been a WWII. Isolationist – one who keeps his nose out of other people’s business and refuses to foot the bill for a global police force to protect the globalists capital investments.

jfs
jfs
6 years ago

Kudos to Mish for expressing a confidence factor regarding Trump loss:
“My confidence is in the low to mid 60% range. If you want a precise number, call it 64%.”

At least, this is something that can be tracked over time. If a pundit makes a lot of predictions with confidence factors, you can see if they tend to be over confident over time or even directionally wrong.

If I were a pundit, I just think it’s too soon to have much confidence one way or the other. It depends a lot on who the VP is, because voters are going to think that is who the President will soon be, if Biden is elected. Seriously, if Biden chooses Stacy Abrams, this is going to lower his odds.

hhabana
hhabana
6 years ago

Great analysis Mish! I voted for Trump this last election and will not vote either candidate. I’m just disgusted with a lot of Trump’s decisions regarding debt, deficits and foreign interventions. Also, I wish he would quit acting like a high school girl tweeting all the time. It gets on my nerves. I read one day on Drudge that he tweeted 100 times in one day! The guy has some pathological narcissistic issues which can be entertaining during election, but becomes overbearing as a Presidential leader.

hmk
hmk
6 years ago

I hope you are correct people need to go to jail for that.

Advancingtime
Advancingtime
6 years ago

While our memory has a way of removing rough edges from events we should not try to whitewash the past and rewrite history to present a different picture of what really happened. Because of the stark contrast in the demeanor and style of Trump and Obama, the media has “photoshopped” reality.

For years former President Obama remained more or less off the grid. Now that he has reemerged we should take a moment to review the Obama era. Some of this should rub off on Biden. The article below reminds us of all the scandals.

Webej
Webej
6 years ago
Reply to  Advancingtime

How could you criticize him for anything without being seen as a racist?

footwedge
footwedge
6 years ago
Reply to  Advancingtime

I read Bruce’s often and mostly agree with his thoughtful comments. I have no great love of Obama or his administration but I can’t agree here, at least not totally. A scandal is like TeaPot Dome or cabinet member selling secrets. Most of the items he stated here fall in the category of policy mistakes. Every president has them including Obama and Trump. They may be big or small stupid or harmful but they are not scandals. The current occupant has had several members resign due to malfeasance and the president himself has violated the emoluments clause several times. Much closer to scandals. There are many other actions of the Trump administration (and maybe Obama’s) that may fall into the category of scandal but history will be the best judge of what’s a scandal and what’s a policy mistake.

LexRex1776
LexRex1776
6 years ago
Reply to  footwedge

Using the IRS to target opposition groups. Scandal! Using the FBI and the nation’s intelligence apparatus to go after an opposition party candidate. Scandal! Turning a blind eye to the Clinton Foundation’s pay to play. Scandal! Letting the Secretary of State skate on her mishandling of classified documents. Scandal! Do you need more?

Herkie
Herkie
6 years ago
Reply to  footwedge

Footwedge; not even policy mistakes so much as being force to govern via presidential signing orders because the GOP had blocked any and ALL policy initiatives and nominees. Obama was actually a fairly moderate president and will be seen as such with time, because what we will be getting (with Trump) and all future presidents is a core rock hard partisan unwillingness to work for the good of the nation. No matter what America needs to get by either party will now simply be using their elected position to try to destroy the other. They are no better at this point than fascists. And there is no point in blaming the conservatives as having started it all under Raygun when the end result is the failure and probable break up of the USA.

footwedge
footwedge
6 years ago
Reply to  Herkie

Sadly, I and many of my friends have come to the same conclusion. Try as we might there just doesn’t seem to be any point in trying to make it work anymore. Both parties are totally corrupted and we now have a near government and our system of governance has completely broken down. We are on track for another civil war or at least some sort of breakup into city or regional states sort of like old Greece. There would be some irony to that since the founding fathers had so much distrust of the Greek form of democracy. Last laugh is on us.

Herkie
Herkie
6 years ago
Reply to  footwedge

I have often thought that when the breaking point comes we will mostly avoid a civil war though there will be some hostilities. I was looking at one of those three D tilt maps with red/blue/purple and it struck me that the blue is mostly urban islands while red is all over the place but so low population they would have no way to resist anyone. Then there were purples scattered about, and if there will be actual fighting it will be in struggles in those areas.

The huge towering blue islands will easily dominate their surroundings to assure a stream of food and water and fuel and eventually band together to coalesce into some sort of confederations, thus the whole west coast could become three or four or five (Las Vegas/NV; Portland/Oregon; Seattle/Washington; San Francisco/Northern California; LA/Southern California) nations that would be natural allies. They could easily take over or control Idaho, Montana, Wyoming for food and fuel. Arizona is purple now, the blues there might appeal to the west coast blues to suppress reds in their state, though what value other than as a buffer state AZ could add to such a confederacy is doubtful.

Texas might want to head north after taking/controlling New Mexico, then go after OK, KS, NE. I doubt they would go after Louisiana, too many blacks for their taste. Most of the deep south except Florida would probably reband the old confederacy. The entire Midwest would likely revolve around Chicago.

And there would be many sub categories of such with few actual fights. Then in broader sense the west coast would align with the North East but only in some sort of mutual defense pact. Some surprises could come of it, for example small places that are independent simply because nobody wants them and they would represent no strategic value. West Virginia comes to mind. The only thing they have is coal and that is being phased out. There also are some blue cities deep in red states, Austin. They would probably have to work out deals for semi autonomous status.

as always Florida is a special case and I can see it going full tilt civil war and possibly itself breaking into several states with Miami aligned to a new free Cuba, because Miami can take Cuba in a war at this point. Though it would be more likely they would erode Cuban communism with their vast wealth once they reopen the doors to trade and investment since that is a federal policy that would no longer be in force now that there is no federal government.

I would be dead. My life at my age depends on my federal disabled vet benefits and I doubt anyone is going to step up and take on US liabilities for our soldiers and such. Even if there was some help it would be so limited that it is hardly worth thinking about. In fact a whole lot of old people are going to just die because when US Treasury goes away so does Social Security.

Without the Federal US government there would be no NATO and no ally Europe could count on so it is only a matter of time before Germany rearms and overruns the continent, and the continent would probably not much resist since Germany is already running most of the show anyway, and Europe would have to contend with Russia now that the US is gone from the scene. I would expect the EU to be history very quickly as they all scramble to realign.

In some ways it might be good for the world, but for us it will be a century if ever before peace/security and prosperity return, and then there is the question of what to do with the assets of the United States, the liabilities would be erased but the assets are mostly still there. Some are immovable like Hoover Dam and the Columbia dams, but there are military assets, there are nuclear weapons, and the gold, how would that get divvied up? No way am I going to allow Kentucky Ft. Knox or New York City have all the gold just because that was where it happened to be on the day of collapse.

There is enough material here to write several good books.

Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
6 years ago

At this point, does it really matter? If you have not moved money offshore already, there is still time to do it.

ReadyKilowatt
ReadyKilowatt
6 years ago

Have to disagree with you on this one Mish. The party that gets the most of their core out to vote will win, just like the last 4 elections. There’s 0 interest in getting people to cross the aisle anymore, just keep pushing on your core. Remember only about 40% of eligible voters bother anyway.

bradw2k
bradw2k
6 years ago

I’d never seen that clip, thank you! Carlin was brilliant. The fact that he could work perceptive contrarian socio-political critique into standup that is enjoyed by a mixed audience is remarkable.

Makes sense that hatred for Trump’s childish bombast and unreason, which has been in our faces for 4 years, is going to eclipse “hatred” for Biden’s speaking foibles. The office of the President has a history of word manglers — annoying but apparently not unelectable.

LexRex1776
LexRex1776
6 years ago

Trump and McConnell have been very successful in getting judges with an originalist bias appointed to the courts. In one term, almost as many have been appointed as were appointed by Obama in two terms. Also, the brightest spot in the Trump administration is Attorney General William Barr. Virtually single-handedly he may restore the rule of law to our nation by holding a number of Obama appointees and henchman accountable for using the FBI and the nation’s intelligence apparatus for partisan purposes. Time will tell.

ToInfinityandBeyond
ToInfinityandBeyond
6 years ago
Reply to  LexRex1776

ROFL

Casual_Observer
Casual_Observer
6 years ago
Reply to  LexRex1776

You have fox news derangement syndrome.

wxman40
wxman40
6 years ago
Reply to  LexRex1776

Well here is what Mish is talking about. The haters that will decided the election.

ToInfinityandBeyond
ToInfinityandBeyond
6 years ago

As opposed to Trump just being a plain old pig?

LexRex1776
LexRex1776
6 years ago

Voting for Biden would be akin to buying a pig in a poke. No one knows who would be pulling the levers, but it certainly won’t be the guy who isn’t able to string together a couple of coherent sentences.

Casual_Observer
Casual_Observer
6 years ago

Given there are more tossup states in the mix this time, I see higher potential for success in manipulating the outcome in multiple states and altering the outcome of the election. I think we are truly headed for a constitutional crisis come December.

Also I don’t rule out health issues for Trump prior to the election given Covid-19 is working it’s way through the White House.

ToInfinityandBeyond
ToInfinityandBeyond
6 years ago

Mish – just curious. What would you consider to be the most significant positive accomplishment by the Trump administration over the past 4 years.

BrainDamagedBiden
BrainDamagedBiden
6 years ago

“For those who hate both candidates, Biden has the lesser chance of lasting 4 years.

Is that a bad thing?”

One might say it depends on his vice president choice. However, given the state of the Democratic Party, it’s more likely to be AOC than Jim Webb. So the answer is Yes, it’s a very bad thing (i.e. the Dims winning).

Let’s face facts, Trump is a 1980s Democrat. He’s a big city liberal. Most of the huff about Trump is his style not the substance (well and the fact that he campaigned against the neocons, abd stupid wars. But Sheldon proceeded to buy him off). The fact that the 2020 Democratic Party fully embraces cultural Marxism, and socialism suggests a win for the Dims will be a significant step down the Road to Serfdom.

A vote for the Dims is a vote for Big Brother.

Kimo
Kimo
6 years ago

I see no indication that Biden is even running his own campaign. If he’s President, just which unelected official(s) will be running the country? I find Taibbi comments on this subject far more useful.

Blurtman
Blurtman
6 years ago
Reply to  Kimo

Like during Regan’s period of decline, Jill Biden will be running the country, and the VP may have to assume the role. Klobuchar might be a good choice and Stacey Abrams a poor choice. Can’t be a guy due to Joe’s identity politics promise.

Kimo
Kimo
6 years ago
Reply to  Kimo

Nancy was not my idea of a good President. Leadership by committee is a poor choice, decline by mediocracy.

ToInfinityandBeyond
ToInfinityandBeyond
6 years ago

The US conceded way too much to the healthcare and insurance industries with the implementation of Obamacare but on the whole it was a positive. The US healthcare system leaves a lot to be desired unless of course you are in the upper middle class and even then it is far less than perfect. For all the money that is spent on healthcare in this country the US infant mortality rates and life expectancies are no better than some third world countries. US infant mortality rates trail countries like New Caledonia, French Polynesia, Wallis and Futuna and even the much maligned British National Healthcare system. Anything that gives more affordable access to more of the population with no restrictions on pre existing conditions has to be on the whole positive. I agree Obamacare’s design and implementation was flawed but on the whole it was a plus for the country. Contrast that to the Republican’s position where they maligned Obamacare and promised a much better healthcare system. Despite have many years to plan for a better system the Republicans failed miserably when it came to designing and implementing a better system.

BrainDamagedBiden
BrainDamagedBiden
6 years ago

I love Italy and the Italian!

CaliforniaStan
CaliforniaStan
6 years ago

Proof, if we needed it again, that no good deed goes unpunished. And that the US has not cornered the market on lunatics.

rafterman
rafterman
6 years ago

Don’t underestimate the Russians!

BrainDamagedBiden
BrainDamagedBiden
6 years ago
Reply to  rafterman

I found two hiding under my bed last night! Truly scary!

tokidoki
tokidoki
6 years ago
Reply to  rafterman

Putin will become the president.

We’ll ship Trump to Russia so he can in turn Make Russia Great Again.

TonGut
TonGut
6 years ago

I agree with practically everything Mish has to say, but I am afraid I have to disagree strongly with Failed promise #6 commentary. I assume he is referring mainly to the corporate tax cut as benefitting the wealthy. Greg Mankiw and others are right, a corporate tax cut does not benefit the wealthy (read: owners/shareholder).

A tax on business is one of the most deceptive, confusing and underhanded kind. In fact, I think politicians have most voters convinced that they can tax a non-human entity like that without anybody at all paying for it. But let’s get one thing straight: all taxes are paid by people. Only people pay taxes! Business can’t pay taxes at all, they can only collect taxes—and the people they collect from are customers/workers. The owners don’t pay the tax because, in a competitive market, the required return on capital remains fairly constant.

Logically, a corporate tax cut drives up the return on capital, but only in the short term, which then attracts more capital. With more capital comes more supply and a lower price, which drives the return on capital back down to where it started. Consumer get most of the benefit. Some economists have confused the issue by arguing that workers benefit as well due to the greater production creating greater demand for labor. But I frankly don’t see the point in distinguishing a worker from a consumer. After all, you can’t consume unless you are a worker. Instead, I personally like to think of it as a decline in prices relative to incomes in general.

In others words, a corporate tax cut benefits all of us through increased productivity.

Rich people do not pay the corporate tax, it is consumers/workers that pay nearly all of it. I use “nearly“ because there are some situations where this is not the case (anticompetitive or monopolistic environments for example).

Zardoz
Zardoz
6 years ago
Reply to  TonGut

Companies charge what the market will bear. They don’t lower prices because their costs go down.

TonGut
TonGut
6 years ago
Reply to  TonGut

Huh? When tax costs go down, the market will bear lower prices. That’s assuming the market is competitive, and those competitors are opportunistic.

Jdog1
Jdog1
6 years ago

The fact that these two are our choices for the most powerful position in our country shows just how broken our system is. Our country is no longer economically or politically viable.
I hate to say it, but the best thing that could happen to this country at this point would be a major depression, followed by a major revolution to eliminate the corporate strangle hold on our government, and abolish the Federal Reserve.
We are going to see a very serious upheaval in the not too distant future, and it is going to test our ability as a nation to survive.

ReadyKilowatt
ReadyKilowatt
6 years ago
Reply to  Jdog1

Revolutions are never about dispersion of power.

Stuki
Stuki
6 years ago
Reply to  ReadyKilowatt

Do them right, and keep at it doggedly for long enough, and they have no choice but to be.

Look at Afghanistan. Power is about as dispersed as it can possibly get. And that is despite every budding “superpower,” across darned near all of history, having fought those pesky dispersed-power guys to, literally, their own bitter end, in order to make them give up their annoyingly dispersed ways.

The Founders intuitively grasped this. Hence their talk of revolution/rebellion a generation. Once you leave those in power in peace, to do much of anything but to stumble shellshocked around in ruins searching for their own blown off body parts, they WILL spend their newfound spare time expanding their power. And then expanding it some more…… Until you end up with Trump vs Biden and nothing anyone can do about it……

The Afghans may well have gotten a bad rap from overdoing it a bit over the past 5 decades; upping their revolutionary frequency to seemingly every month or two. Or perhaps even to outright permanence. But then again, they have also spent the past 5 decades under siege from the outside. In America, once a generation, as The Founders advised, is, if nothing else, a good place to start. Can always be fine tuned later.

Jdog1
Jdog1
6 years ago
Reply to  ReadyKilowatt

You do not know your history…

Webej
Webej
6 years ago

Many haters tend to not vote, so they are stronger in opinion polls than at the polls.
Surely it will give some people pause to realize they would be handing a blank cheque to the DNC and some NPC they hoist into the saddle.
Voting is often more about getting people out to participate than who they favor. I think the participation dynamics will be less predictable than ever, especially with 40 million people with no livelihood.

Jdog1
Jdog1
6 years ago
Reply to  Webej

Participation in a system which no longer represents your best interests, is simply giving credibility to the tyrants who are exploiting you. It would be better if the majority abstained and removed the credibility of the tyrants for the world to see..

Jdog1
Jdog1
6 years ago
Reply to  Webej

Tax on business transactions are the only “Constitutional” taxes that government was given power to levy.. The “individual” income tax is unconstitutional regardless of the constitutional amendment to enact it. In order for the individual income tax to be legal, the government would first have to establish legally that they “owned” the American Citizens, and therefore were legally entitled to a share of the fruit of their labor which is the sole property of the Citizen.
Corporations on the other hand are a government creation, and therefore under the jurisdiction of government for the purpose of taxation.
If we were truly a free country, we would eliminate the individual income tax, and levy much higher corporate income taxes in their place….
But alas, we are no longer free Citizens, nor do we live in a free country.

TimeToTest
TimeToTest
6 years ago

One word – debate

How in the world is Biden supposed to debate Trump? He can’t even catch softballs in interviews with his own people.

I don’t know what they Democrat’s will do when they have to admit he has dementia. Install another candidate at the last minute?

I don’t like many things about Trump but Biden is the worst. And then there is the rape thing.

Zardoz
Zardoz
6 years ago
Reply to  TimeToTest

He can induce trumple tantrums if he discards decorum. People are sick of watching trump act like a toddler,

hmk
hmk
6 years ago
Reply to  TimeToTest

I would rather have 100 Trumps over 1 Biden. A liar about his corruption in the Ukraine and China. How hard do you think he’ll be on China while they give his coke head son billions in money management contracts. Trump is an annoying narcissistic asshole no doubt but he has done more than any other presidents against unfair trade and immigration. No matter what Trump would have done regarding the Wuhan virus he would have been criticized. A no win. Biden is against the 2nd amendment and that alone is enough reason not to vote for him. Look at how malevolent the govt has become during this crisis. Had the democrats put forth a viable candidate like Bloomberg,I know there there are some 2A issues with him, he would have been a no brainer to defeat Trump. He was the most moderate and sensible candidate they have put forth in a long time.

TimeToTest
TimeToTest
6 years ago
Reply to  hmk

@hmk

To understand why Biden is the nominee, you must understand(you prob do) this budding Obamagate scandal. They thought Hillary would win so much they didn’t cover their tracks. Now with the hunt in full force they have to have someone with skin in the corruption game to get the nomination.

Bloomberg while not to my likening for the same issues, would have exposed Obama for what happened. He most likely would be a pretty good president.

I fully expect the hammer to come down right before the election. I don’t expect more than just a few hand slaps(maybe) for the important ones with some underlings getting the chop.

numike
numike
6 years ago

The U.S. was once at the cutting edge of pandemic prevention. Then Big Pharma took over.

Stuki
Stuki
6 years ago
Reply to  numike

Which is simply a special case of:

The US was once competent at something. Anything.

Then The Fed took over.

davebarnes2
davebarnes2
6 years ago

“Accused of dementia and it may be accurate” is not a minus.
He resigns and VP [insert name here] becomes President.

“Obamacare? Please! Is that supposed to be a plus?”
Yes.
As someone who bought family coverage on his own from 2000 until today (for the wife), Obamacare is so much better than the previous system. Better coverage, no precondition turndowns, same prices.

“Sex allegations, but Trump has those too.”
You can, but should not, compare a peanut to an elephant in discussing size.

Schaap60
Schaap60
6 years ago
Reply to  davebarnes2

We’ll see who Biden’s VP candidate is. Knowing he has a significant chance of not making it 4 years makes his choice crucial. While his choice may be a plus, his comments indicating he is limiting the field to one gender tells me he’s not looking for the best possible replacement and is playing the game of identity politics. As a result, I’m not holding my breath that his choice will be anything other than a huge minus.

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