70% in US Have at Least 1 Vaccination Shot, Who are the Holdouts?

Uptick in Vaccinations 

  • 70 percent of adults have at least one shot, including 90 percent of seniors with at least one shot. 
  • In the past few weeks there’s been nearly 70 percent increase in the average number of new people getting vaccinated each and every day.
  • In the last seven days 3 million Americans have gotten their first shot. That’s the highest seven-day totals since July 4th.

The above data is as from an August 2 Whitehouse Press Briefing

Vaccine Monitor 

The lead chart is from the KFF COVID-19 Vaccine Monitor: July 2021, published August 4. 

Key Findings 

  • The latest Vaccine Monitor finds the share of adults who say they have either received a COVID-19 vaccine (67%) or say they will get vaccinated as soon as they can (3%) is relatively unchanged from June. The poll, conducted July 15-27th, may not capture any recent uptick in vaccinations after the most recent data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), citing the increased risk of the Delta variant to both unvaccinated and vaccinated people.
  • Three in ten adults remain unvaccinated including one in ten who say they want to “wait and see” how the vaccine works for other people before getting vaccinated and 3% who say they will do so “only if required” (down from 6% in June). 
  • An additional 14% say they will “definitely not” get a vaccine, a share that has held relatively steady since December. 
  • One-fourth of unvaccinated adults (8% of all adults) say they are likely to get a vaccine before the end of 2021, including nearly half (45%) of those who say they want to “wait and see.”
  • Three-fourths of unvaccinated adults, including nine in ten of those who say they will “definitely not” get the vaccine, say they are “not worried” about getting seriously sick from the virus, less than half say they are worried about the Delta variant worsening the pandemic, more than half (including 75% of “definitely not”) say getting vaccinated is a bigger risk to their health than getting infected with coronavirus, and a quarter (just one in ten of “definitely not”) say the vaccines are effective at keeping vaccinated people from dying from COVID-19 or getting seriously ill.

Who Remains Unvaccinated

  • A previous KFF analysis examined the demographic groups among the unvaccinated population finding two distinct groups, those who are open to getting a vaccine (“wait and see”) and those who say they will definitely not get a COVID-19 vaccine. 
  • The latest KFF COVID-19 Vaccine Monitor finds the key demographic differences between the “wait and see” and the “definitely not” groups still center on racial and ethnic identity and political partisanship. 
  • Four in ten of those in the “wait and see” group are people of color.
  • The most vaccine resistant group, those who say they will “definitely not” get a COVID-19 vaccine, is overwhelmingly made up of White adults (65% of the group compared to 50% of the “wait and see” group). 
  • Partisanship also plays a major role with more than half (58%) of the “definitely not” group identifying as Republican or Republican-leaning. 
  • In addition, religious identity also plays a role as White Evangelical Christians make up nearly twice the share of the “definitely not” group (32%) as the “wait and see” group.

Antivax Email 

An anti-vaxxer friend emailed this link referencing the above report: 53% of all unvaccinated Americans believe the vaccine is more dangerous than Covid.

The tide is turning against the vaccine,” commented my friend.

It would behoove my friend to observe the percentage of diehard anti-vaxxers is the same 13%-15% it’s always been. 

But he can take comfort in the fact that by the end of the year it will not be 53% but something like 90% of the remaining anti-vaxers holding his view. 

Near-Death Experience of a Former Anti-Vaxxer

Meanwhile, please note a Former anti-vaxxer in Northern California urges vaccinations after entire family struck with COVID-19.

Before contracting COVID-19, Jonathan Weltsch (top right), 43, assumed the virus was no more deadly than the flu and was a vocal anti-vaxxer. After an 18-day stay at the hospital and nearly losing his life, the father of nine said he regrets not getting vaccinated and is using his story to try to convince the skeptical.

“I was told my whole life not to take experimental drugs and I was 100% against an experimental vaccine,” he told the Times-Standard. “I was so strong-willed against it…Then I lost my breath and I wished I was vaccinated.”

Expect More Near-Death (or Worse) Experiences

It will take a near-death experience to convince the diehard anti-vaxxers. For some it will not be a near-death experience but rather a death experience.

Unfortunately, this has to happen at the individual level. Anti-vaxxers are proven incapable of learning from anyone else’s experiences. Most will have to personally be on the death bed before learning anything.

The Fearful Math

53% of 30% fear the vaccine more than Covid. 

That is 15.9% of the total, suspiciously similar to the 13% to 15% who say they will never get vaccinated.

Over time, the percentage of unvaccinated who fear the vaccine more than covid will approach 100%. This we call “turning the tide”.

In the end, those who survive can put this badge of honor on their chests: “I survived the Covid scare of 2020 unvaccinated. Millions didn’t.”

What’s Legal?

For s discussion of the legalities of vaccination mandates, please see Many Companies Now Have Mandatory Vaccination Policies: Should This Be Legal?

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Dean2020
Dean2020
4 years ago
Remember a short while ago bodies where floating down rivers in India. Death was everywhere and COVID was out of control. Within two weeks they were able to overcome the surge…
“The New York Times reported on July 30, 2021, that this is a mystery with no clear explanation. But, the drop in cases happened right after a new COVID-19 protocol was released in India. The new guideline includes Ivermectin for early treatment — to treat patients with mild symptoms.”
Cocoa
Cocoa
4 years ago
For the facts, the most prevalent community to avoid the vaccine is not white, libertarian kooks and homeschoolers but the black community. Various reasons for this:
-They don’t trust the US government for good reason
-US Government has a history of using blacks and low income folks as guinea pigs(crack cocaine, hello!)
-Access to the vaccine sites
-Lower income, less educated in general tend to blow this all off.
So the minority groups the Democrats supposedly represent, they have zero influence over
purple squish
purple squish
4 years ago
Mish, I really appreciate your views and work in general but I disagree with the frame of this discussion. Among the people who haven’t yet gotten the COVID vaccine there are three groups of people: (1) Those who are not against all vaccines, just the ones being pushed right now; (2) Those who aren’t even against the mRNA vaccines for COVID, who just aren’t persuaded by the risk-benefit calculations in this particular situation, but who would take them under different conditions/assumptions/data; and (3) the true anti-vaxxers who don’t want any vaccine ever.
I myself am in the second group due to already having had a PCR-confirmed case of symptomatic COVID. I’m 39 w/o comorbidities and it was no big deal for me the first time, and given how immunity works and everything we’ve seen so far re: reinfections it will be even less of a big deal next time, if that ever happens. I feel like it’s negative on the risk-benefit tradeoff for me to get vaccinated now, given all that, which seems pretty damn rational to me. People can disagree but here’s one thing I can promise: when people like me are lumped in with the other two groups and all labeled as ‘anti-vaxxers’, we get a sympathy for them that I previously didn’t have when this was just about suppressing measles and chicken pox.
FWIW before getting COVID I was signed up to get the J&J shot. My biggest reservations were not about the particular vaccine we have now, but about where this precedent leads. Maybe it makes sense for COVID but does it still make sense for strep throat? Rotavirus? Rabies? When we can make an mRNA vaccine over a weekend for anything, will people gradually expect everyone else to be vaccinated for every virus out there? A war on viruses seems way more utopian and dangerous than the war on terror and war on drugs put together.
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  purple squish
There is talk of using mRNA technology to make flu vaccines in the future!
Aaron
Aaron
4 years ago
Reply to  purple squish
Well said, thank you for taking the time to comment!  Adding to the risk/reward calculation is the waning efficacy of the vaccines https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/23/science/covid-vaccine-israel-pfizer.html and the high number of breakthrough Covid cases among the vaccinated.  How do I know it is high?  The CDC is hiding the #’s https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/06/cdc-covid-coronavirus-data-breakthrough-cases as are 15 states so far  https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/566755-15-states-are-keeping-covid-breakthrough-cases-under-wraps.  Singapore says 75% of their recent Covid cases were from fully the vaccinated, and reuters tends to be a more reliable news source, but a # that high is hard to believe. https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/vaccinated-people-singapore-make-up-three-quarters-recent-covid-19-cases-2021-07-23/
There is too much misinformation being pumped out by our politicians and mainstream media that is brainwashing us
TCW
TCW
4 years ago
Wouldn’t it help if the FDA approved the vaccines?  I’m assuming there is a good reason they have not approved them.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Reply to  TCW
Dr. Fauci said it is just a formality that the Covaxxines have not been approved. Apparently, the phase 3 trials won’t be finished until 2022 and 20223 for the 2 mRNA, but over 100 million in the U.S. have been effectively part of the trial. The public health agencies, which said the shots are voluntary, are seeking to force everyone to get the shot. So rest assured, that they will approve it soon.
TCW
TCW
4 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
That guy’s changed his tune so many times I’m not sure any of the hold-outs are listening to him.
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  TCW
We holdouts are not and have never listened to Fauci,  However, he is a demigod to many people and to them, can do no wrong.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
KTLA “News”: “A reserve officer for the Los Angeles Police Department is battling
COVID-19 at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center despite being fully vaccinated.”
He has pneumonia and is being treated with $3,000  a pop, Remdesivir. However, 11/20/20 the “WHO has issued a conditional recommendation against the use of
remdesivir in hospitalized patients, regardless of disease severity, as
there is currently no evidence that remdesivir improves survival and
other outcomes in these patients.”
Oddly, the NIH final report on its web site 10/20/20 “confirms remdesivir benefits for COVID-19.” Quite the discrepancy there.
In India, 2 provinces used Ivermectin and cases dropped dramatically. Another province went with Remdesivir and cases continued to climb. But the FDA supports expensive pharma Remdesivir and shuns cheap, off patent Ivermectin. Hopefully, the LAPD officer will survive his Remdesivir treatment, anyway.
The FDA is also seemingly champing at the bit to officially approve the Covaxxines, after approving an Alzheimer’s drug that 10 of 11 advisory committee members said, didn’t work. Bret Weinstein just had a teaser for an Odysee video on Youtube. He had a chart of VAERS reports. basically, a flat line before the Covaxxines, and a rapidly rising line, post Covaxxines.
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Here’s a fun and not atypical reader post from a NYT Covid article.  I especially like how the poster refers to getting vaccinated or not as a “survival of society issue”! [lol]  The NYT boards are full of people like this who are so scared of their shadows that one wonders how they make it through their days.  
Curmudgeon51
Sacramento/L.A.
5 Aug 2021
Vaccine mandates at every level and vaccine  passports are the only way to really get out of the pandemic. All levels of government and all types of businesses must require vaccination for all employees and customers. The only exception should be for confirmed medical conditions. No religious exceptions should be allowed. This is not a freedom of choice issue, but a survival of society issue. The unvaccinated will become the human petri dish for mutations that could be more transmissible and virulent.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
The problem is that most of the world is not Covaxxinated. Biden is also letting scores of infected illegal aliens come across the southern border. The Covaxxinated are a petri dish for immune escape. Geert Vanderbosche said you don’t vaccinate into a pandemic, which is exactly what is being done. But don’t listen to an expert, listen to the approved official narrative.
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
About 200 staff members at a San Francisco hospital and the U.C.S.F. health system have tested positive.
Between 75 and 80 percent of staff members who tested positive for the coronavirus at Zuckerberg San Francisco General Hospital were fully vaccinated.
July 31, 2021
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Vaccinations No Silver Bullet Warns Australian Senator
By Daniel Y. Teng
August 5, 2021
Nationals Senator Matt Canavan has warned that vaccinations are no silver bullet for Australian society to return to normal and has called on political leaders to be “upfront” and tell Australians they need to “live with the virus.”
Canavan made the comments on Aug. 4, in Parliament during the second reading of a new Bill to finance support payments to businesses.
“It is past time as a nation that we in this place, of all people, be upfront with the Australian people and get rid of the fantasy and fairytales that we are continually trying to put the Australian people to sleep with,” he told the Senate.
“We should front up to them with the facts and the reality of this terrible pandemic and what might happen in the next few years in this country regardless of what we do or how many people get vaccinated in the months ahead,” he added.
….
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Will someone please explain why proven antibodies should not be equivalent to an mRNA/DNA jab?  Is the goal to make sure people are protected or just that they got the jab and contributed to mor eprofits for big drug companies?
Casual_Observer
Casual_Observer
4 years ago
For those that think we should let the unvaxxed alone, surgeries that were deferred are now being cancelled again because unvaxxed are overfilling hospitals and compromising the health care system.  So basically the unvaxxed are screwing up the system for everyone else.
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Life’s a beach and then you die.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Early Ivermectin outpatient usage would solve that problem.
“First of all, with regard to Ivermectin. About 3 months ago, in the middle of our last big case surge, I began to use it. ONLY for people with symptoms, people who were COVID positive or their immediate household contacts. What I noticed almost instantly – the drug was not a “wonder”drug – in that people were still ill; HOWEVER, and this is big, I have admitted not one patient to the hospital with COVID since then – and people were just not getting as sick as they had been at home.”
So why is Ivermectin being blocked by the FDA?
Casual_Observer
Casual_Observer
4 years ago
I predict as t goes to infinity the number of antivaxxers goes to zero because they will die of covid before they get the vaccine. My wife saw a person die today at the hospital she is at and the covid ward patients who are antivaxxers still think it is all a hoax. For 2021 I propose a group Darwin award for the antivaxxers
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Excuse me, but most people don’t die of Covid, which any casual observer would have noticed a long time ago.
Dr. Manhattan23
Dr. Manhattan23
4 years ago
https://c19ivermectin.com/   105 studies, 68 peer reviewed, 60 with results comparing treatment and control groups involving over 570 scientists and over 21K subjects for a drug thats been around for 40 years and proven to be safe and effective with little to no side effects. Yet nothing from the media. The science I guess isn’t settled
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1682852/000168285220000017/mrna-20200630.htm  page 70,  Moderna’s SEC filing, 10Q,  there is their own quote “Currently, mRNA is considered a gene therapy product by the FDA. Unlike certain gene therapies that irreversibly alter cell DNA and could act as a source of side effects, mRNA-based medicines are designed to not irreversibly change cell DNA; however, side effects observed in gene therapy could negatively impact the perception of mRNA medicines despite the differences in mechanism. In addition, because no product in which mRNA is the primary active ingredient has been approved, the regulatory pathway for approval is uncertain. The number and design of the clinical trials and preclinical studies required for the approval of these types of medicines have not been established, may be different from those required for gene therapy products, or may require safety testing like gene therapy products. Moreover, the length of time necessary to complete clinical trials and to submit an application for marketing approval for a final decision by a regulatory authority varies significantly from one pharmaceutical product to the next, and may be difficult to predict.”
This is the firm that gets liability immunity, while the public is being forced to take this “vaccine” is discussed
StickToEconomics
StickToEconomics
4 years ago
The guy is obese.  Why not talk about the actual science of those who are at high risk to the virus?
Why are you anti-science?
mrchinup
mrchinup
4 years ago
Yup I was thinking the same thing, it effects sloppy people a little harder. So nobody in his family died of it I presume. Looks like his family is now immune to the virus, looks like it ended pretty well for them. I guess the world didn’t end for this family who didn’t get the jab. One fatty got hit hard, maybe he should learn from this. I wonder when we’ll go after the criminals who created this virus?
threeblindmice
threeblindmice
4 years ago
People should get the vaccine. That said: 1. 60% of the US is vaccinated, including 90% of over 65’ers.  2. natural immunity is thought to be at least another 10% (covid survivors) and probably another 10-20% asymptomatics and untested covid survivors.  We’ve reached herd immunity.  We can stop being panicked.
The unvaxxed are 30-40 year old evangelicals, the anti-vaxxers that still believe vaccines are linked to autism and black folk who harbor some fears due to Tuskegee syphillis experiments.  In NYC, for example, african-americans are highly underrepresented in vaccinations (12% of the vaxxed v 17% of the pop, per NYT.)
So let the unvaxxed be unvaxxed.  If I am vaxxed, I don’t care what your status is.  If we can’t see this as yet another campaign to discredit people because of their politics (note demonization of republicans but not black people), then we are blind.  Don’t fall for it.
Mike 2112
Mike 2112
4 years ago
Reply to  threeblindmice
MANY more than 10% of Americans have had covid. Remember, 45% of cases are asymptomatic, so those ppl were likely never tested when they were positive. 
Cocoa
Cocoa
4 years ago
There are 7 billion people on this planet. Why are we obsessed with convincing anti-vaxxers to get vax’ed? It’s their own headache, and if the vaccine actually works(dubious) then that empirical evidence works its way out. And if they kick the bucket, so be it. 7 $%#$% Billion people-all competing for the same resources. 
Aaron
Aaron
4 years ago
Reply to  Cocoa
Because of the insane amount of money Big Pharma stands to make if they can convince politicians/the media/everybody that *everybody* must have the vaccine (and later yearly boosters for life of course)
dtj
dtj
4 years ago
I think people are putting wayyyyyyyy too much faith in this vaccine. I don’t trust it. What’s there to trust about big Pharma?
Cocoa
Cocoa
4 years ago
Reply to  dtj
Pfizer made 33 billion bucks. They charge 18 bucks a shot-raising it to 23 bucks soon. Funny how a manufactured ailment helps the people at the top at the expense of taxpayers and government budgets. This is anarcho-capitalism at it’s worst
JeffD
JeffD
4 years ago
People are free to get the vaccination and recieve some limited protection, or not get the vaccination and suffer any related consequences. Ask yourself, “What would a Libertarian do if legislating this problem?” I once had an intimate dinner with Dick Boddie, and someone at the table asked him, “Isn’t it difficult to answer questions as the Libertarian Presidential candidate?” He replied, “Not at all. I just have to ask myself the question, ‘Is it voluntary?’”
Mish
Mish
4 years ago
” It’s some sort of insanity to do a 10 week trial and put these into your body.”
A 10-week trial, insane or not, is now a trial of 7 months or so with hundreds of millions of people safely receiving vaccinations.
It is insanity to dispute the success of these vaccines on the basis of “lack of trials” 
Cocoa
Cocoa
4 years ago
Reply to  Mish
So what’s the solution. IF they DON’T Want it, will you actually miss them? 7 billion people on this planet and COVID doesn’t make a dent in that any better than the flu. WHO CARES if these people can’t read, look at evidence over time. There are a whole host of things that they can’t do like use schools, or other services so they compensate and home school and do whatever. Talking to anti-vax community is hopeless
mrchinup
mrchinup
4 years ago
Reply to  Mish
How many thousands have died from the Vax? How many have been or are still sick from it? We’ll never know because the gov, big pharma and the media never tell the truth. I guess we should now believe because millions haven’t died from the vax yet, everything is fine and and dandy with it. Now that pure insanity to believe that.
Corvinus
Corvinus
4 years ago
Reply to  Mish
So you’re justification is that they’ve been essentially conducting a massive scale trial with new technology without really making that clear to the public? And you’re okay with the sketchy ethics of that argument?
Aside from that It’s too early to determine that this “trial” is an unequivocal success. Like with most medical products we have no real idea about possible long term effects.
EconomicCrashDummy
EconomicCrashDummy
4 years ago
Reply to  Mish
A 7 month trial where the data is not even collected appropriately is also insanity. There is no accurate documentation of this trial data. The growth rate of the adverse reactions on the VAERS system and European equivalent are looking exponential and information on many adverse reactions is being dismissed or suppressed. Again, the trial should be 10 years with meticulous records kept. We don’t even know the effect this will have on people in remission from cancer and those with precancerous cells. That is just one area that would take years of research and it was not even considered. Thalidomide took 5 years to make the connection to its most detrimental effects. 7 months is nothing on these molecules. Everyone working on them would go down one pathway of building these outer shell molecules and it could take 9 months or 1.5 years to realise that the pathway was not working and they would have to take a different route. The theory was sound the practical ramifications never followed the theory. 7 months is extremely short in the lifetime of a new branch of Science. When releasing these nanoparticles on the global population, they didn’t even realise they would not stay at the point of injection. The ramifications of this are unknowable but unlikely to be benign. 
As Richard Feynman pointed out, all that Science is, is recognising patterns over time. We have removed the time element from the equation on these nanoparticles and rushed through with the theory. Medical industry experiments for financial gain are the least repeatable and least reliable.There is no accurate data on the adverse reactions. 
Also, why aren’t they using dead or attenuated virus as a vaccine. The Science on this dates back over 200 years to Jenner with the addition of Salk’s modifications about 80 years ago. If people are to be constantly exposed to the pejorative term ‘anti-vaxxer’ at least give them access to a ‘vaccine’ that follows the Science and dictionary definition of the term for many decades. The reason this is not happening is because it is completely unprofitable compared to releasing a new branch of Science on people where potentially trillions can be made, and they can get around appropriate human trial timeframes and the patent holders and pharma companies can get rich a couple of decades before they should. Also, the nanoparticles might never have gotten approval if they were found to be more harmful than good. One hospital in Israel now sees  “95% of the severe patients are vaccinated”. “85-90% of the hospitalizations are in Fully vaccinated people.”
What I have said is so fundamental to Science that the fact that people dismiss it feels like some sort of mass hysteria based on irrational fear of a virus that is not so harmful to the vast majority of demographics. I’m certainly not anti-Science. It feels to me as if most of the world is right now though. I will also say, none of my Scientific friends that have studied this are taking it, and I also know people that work for the Pharma companies that are not taking it, especially females of child bearing age. I’m simply amazed that people think that molecules that Pharma companies came up with in a few months could be better than an immune system that has evolved over half a billion years. It is people that are immunocompromised that are most at risk. 
Mike 2112
Mike 2112
4 years ago
Reply to  Mish
The avg vax trial is 5-15 yrs.
Here’s the timeline for mRNA technology:
Now remember that this is the FIRST mRNA vax to be used on the general public.
bubblelife
bubblelife
4 years ago
Reply to  Mish
Mish, one can’t reason with idiots. For example, Cocoa said, “IF they DON’T Want it, will you actually miss them?” – no we won’t but meanwhile the virus continues to mutate perhaps one day defeating any or all vaccines. Anti-vaxxers mostly complain about the mRNA vax but there is an alternative, the J&J vaccine which is better than nothing.
thimk
thimk
4 years ago
It is what it is . If an anti vaxxer wishes to NOT get jabbed well so be it. As far as the number of people currently/prospectively vaccinated and the
available supply of vaccine, USA is well ahead of the curve compared to other nations. (thank Trump ?)  I always preferred  incentives over mandates to accomplish goals.  As the percent of vaccinated continues to climb and the “wait and see” get the jab, we will render  the situation manageable . The big elephant in the room is the unfettered stream of illegals pouring into our country and they are coming from many sources.  What are they bringing with them ?      
mrchinup
mrchinup
4 years ago
Reply to  thimk
Agree with all the illegals crossing the border infecting Americans with all types of diseases. To find the truth just go to the border and ask a few border patrol agents. I haven’t been vaxed since I was about 5, even at 6 years old found a way around them over 60 now. In that time frame rarely sick. If I drop tomorrow oh well, I’ve had a great life but I’m sure and hell not getting this experimental jab. One friend died from the jab, only took 8 days, I’ll take my chances. Spent all winter in the key at a resort with thousands of people going in and out a month. Went down to Key west once a week, no masks, everyone having fun, this virus is way over blown. 
njbr
njbr
4 years ago
The financial cost of the 60,000+ in the hospital right now with covid?
At $70,000 average per stay?  $ 4.2 billion
Paid for by everyone else’s taxes and insurance.
I really love the go-fund-me pages for the families of the dead who railed against the “hoax” and the vaccine.
It’s funny how when these people hit the hospital they demand all of new anti-viral treatments, just like Trump got.
Because suddenly experimental science is needed….
thimk
thimk
4 years ago
Reply to  njbr
Experimental science needed for an experimental virus !
mrchinup
mrchinup
4 years ago
Reply to  njbr
Multiply that 4.2 billion by 50 and you’ll get the cost of all the illegals coming in to the country now. But you don’t care about that.
Blurtman
Blurtman
4 years ago
Because surveys are so accurate.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
OT….This has to do with the EIDL grants that have been being handed out….I’m wondering if anybody else has had my experience.
The SBA solicited applications for the new (2021) EIDL grants, which were supposed to be $10K or $15K if you’re in a low income neighborhood …I think it might have started in March or so…..we applied and immediately got the $5K, but never got the other $10K that was promised.
And…I keep getting emails from the SBA saying that we qualify and asking us why we haven’t applied. When we call, all we can find out is that our app is showing up as still being processed. Nobody you get on the phone has any way to tell us any more than that.
My guess is that we were victims of a clerical error that will never be corrected. The right hand of the SBA has no clue what the left hand is doing, apparently. If anybody here actually got the full grant, let me ask if if you got it immediately or if the two parts of it came at different times.
TIA, if anybody can respond.
ajc1970
ajc1970
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Yeah, I actually received both the $10K and $5K grant and still receive regular email messages saying that I need to finish my application for them.  Those I ignore.

For the actual EIDL loan, I received $150K initially and asked to increase it to $199K when they increased the limits. They asked me for my 4506T forms 5 times, and each time I quickly responded, then I received a “since you never responded to us, we’ve canceled your loan increase request” message.

They are so bureaucratically busy right now… that have more than an order of magnitude of loan applications right right now than the organization has had loans in its entire history.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Reply to  Belairhead
“@CVdoc – I just learned yesterday that a co-workers dad passed away because of the shot. Perfectly healthy 60 something before and just 1 day after the first dose… admitted to hospital with high fever and bad flu like symptoms… then kidney failure then spiraled from there over the next few days.”
I choose not to take the risk of severe adverse reaction, including death, from taking the Covax.
JeffD
JeffD
4 years ago
.
oee
oee
4 years ago
This the end result of Reaganism  and Thatcherism. She boldly proclaimed there is no society. We have a pandemic of selfishness! . It is not an accident that among the worst hit countries, the USA and The UK rank among the worst hit. 
threeblindmice
threeblindmice
4 years ago
Reply to  oee
Sigh, blames selfishness for antivaxxing.  Doesn’t blame selfishness for the private industry the first developed the vaccines that are saving lives.  And your facts are wrong.  Belgium/Italy are doing much worse.  Same within the US: NY/NJ/CT/MA did much, much worse than TX/FL/GA/etc…
Dr. Future
Dr. Future
4 years ago
I may have discussed this before on this board, but I have a very close person to me who is twelve years older than me, and has always been a mentor of wisdom and common sense and level headedness. However, he has been influenced by the extremism of social media political discourse (what I call the “other gospel” for those of us in the Bible Belt). He mocked the virus and masks and other protections, as merely a political fraud publicly online.
  
Suddenly, we discovered in early December that not only did he contract COVID, but apparently he gave it to his entire extended family of multiple generations, with some of them ending up in the hospital. He himself was checked in within a couple of days and at the insistence of his nurse daughters, and was in denial of it even while on oxygen. Shortly thereafter he went on a ventilator (he was otherwise a very healthy, vigorous “manly man” who appeared far, far younger and liked to wrestle with the grandkids). His lungs continued to deteriorate, and the doctors recommended pulling the plug as weeks and months went by, but his nurse daughters refused to do such although pressured to do so. Shortly after their last recommendation, he began to rally slightly with his lungs still in bad shape, so they quickly transferred him to a well-known rehab “hell hole” but the only one who would take ventilator patients. There he went through even worse horrors of neglect, as their forgetting to manage and monitor his fluids and wastes led him to become septic, as they recommended ending his life again. One of the daughters finally obtained access to see him, and found him in a wretched state of care, as he pleaded with them to get him out or kill him there, as the hospital staff laughed and played games down the hall while not checking on him. Hospital ombudsmen and other legal authorities had to get involved, since they refused to transfer him, and finally a compromise was made to transfer him to another floor with a new doctor, and he finally began the slow process of partial recovery, to the shock of everyone involved.
He finally got out of the hospital and into rehab after 4-5 months or so, but eight months later only has about half of his lung capacity, and probably that’s all he’ll get back with his scarred lungs (thank goodness that is the extent of major organ damage, except for his kidneys that were damaged due to fluid draining neglect). He still has neuropathy in his hands and feet, and burning in his feet that keeps him from sleeping at night, but is able to get off the walker for periods of time. He has been known for being mentally rugged and grounded in his life, but he admits he has severe PTSD from his experience; when he was awake and not under medically-induced coma on the ventilator, he was strapped to a table and flipped upside down, facing a floor, kept in pitch dark all night and either hearing around him and not being able to communicate, or yelling out in the darkness and not having anyone come to check on him. The virus and other treatments caused additional hallucinations, with him seeing demons crawling off the wall to attack him while strapped down, and no one coming to check on his cries. He still can’t stand to have a blanket on him, or to have an arm of leg strapped down while getting further diagnostic tests. He experienced all this in a major city known for world class medical facilities and staff, and with the direct intervention of three family members who are nurses. The doctors in his city are still studying him as the patient with the worst case of COVID in their city who still survived. Even afterwards he was hesitant to get the vaccine, but his daughter insisted, who were exhausted from being by his side daily and fighting for him, one with a number of small children at home.    
I’m sorry this was long-winded, but this true story that hit close to my home I hope helps some of you who trivialize this to know a real experience of what one goes through, even if they are strong and healthy, and to share this war story with others you know who don’t take this seriously – maybe it could save a life or two. 
Mish
Mish
4 years ago
Reply to  Dr. Future
Thanks Dr. Future
Best wishes
Note to Readers. I used to do podcasts with Dr. Future long ago.
The discussion then at hand was the housing bubble that then soon crashed
Dutoit
Dutoit
4 years ago
I think that the problem also comes from the fact that the medical world is massively corrupted. The opinions of “specialists” are massively dependent on how they are financed. Even the so called “scientific” results can be manipulated. This is what we learn from the history of the fight against tobacco. But we always forget the old stories.
EconomicCrashDummy
EconomicCrashDummy
4 years ago
I’m simply astonished by how easy it was to convince everyone to get this unapproved novel genetic therapy that has been relabelled as a ‘vaccine.’ I worked on an analogue of the outer shell of the nanoparticles for my Chemistry PhD. Pfizer are using cholesterol and pegylating it, then using cation parts and other chemicals to then encapsulate the mRNA. Just working on the outer part myself, they are incredibly temperamental molecules. Once you pegylate them they would never do what you wanted. It’s some sort of insanity to do a 10 week trial and put these into your body. Then they now realise they don’t stay in the injection site and travel around the body. In perfect lab conditions these don’t do what you want , how are they going to react in your body with all the different things they interact with? Nobody knows. Pegylated molecules also target cancer cells. That’s one of the things they were designed to do. Nobody knows the effect that these will have as they reach precancerous or cancer cells of those in remission. Again, no trial data on this. Nobody knows. A 10 week trial. Preposterous. 2 of the main factors for not having repeatable experiments are those done for medical reasons and those done for financial gain. John Ioannides’ seminal paper pointed this out and evidence backed it up later although some other points were marginally disputed. The first thing you learn on the first day of organic chemistry is about Thalidomide and how the minor kink in it, a tiny percentage of the drug (an enantiomer) caused all the devastation to the babies in the womb and it only happened for a few short weeks of pregnancy. Other times it has no effect. It took five years for the link between thalidomide and its effects on babies to be made. Again, one enantiomer was perfect, no bad effects.. and the tiny percentage that had the bad effect, only had it for a short time. The bad effects were devastating. 
Some sort of insanity has taken over the world that a 10 week trial is all that it takes to release this new branch of science on people that is almost as different to regular vaccines as the airplane is to the horse and carriage. Nobody i know that has studied this  is taking the ‘vaccines.’ Many people that have studied organic chemistry think it’s insane. I changed careers so i can freely talk about this as i don’t fear about getting fired even though i have a high knowledge of it. Only a few thousand people studied these molecules. What should have happened is the elderly should have been protected. What is happening is absolute madness and breaks every scientific protocol. I am always amazed at the lack of scientific curiosity in most people. By the way, my father very nearly died from taking the Pfizer vaccine. Our doctor said many people were having bad effects. I had warned my parents beforehand but they are old and were fearful. My dad first had a nose bleed after taking the 2nd dose, and then stayed in hospital and came home. 4 days later he woke up with his mouth filled with blood, he lost at least 2 pints of blood before the ambulance came.  Went to hospital again and they could stop it. Again now his white blood cell count is way off and he needs to go back. Most of the bad reactions are not documented. This again is insanity in a trial, which this is. Again, what’s happening is insanity. The virus ifr is a few percent worse than the Flu and less than the flu for most demographics. 
Corvinus
Corvinus
4 years ago
That’s because people are easily swayed by associations and then apply justifications retroactively according to whatever logic suits their ego. In this case many if not most people who carry the “Trust Science” banner don’t even really have a good grasp about what science is and how it’s conducted much less an appreciation of the sociology of science and the politicization of science. 
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
4 years ago
You have made a reasoned point against mRNA vaccines. Using mRNA as a means to produce viral proteins sounds like a straightforward idea, but there are pitfalls in the details, as you pointed out.
What then is the alternative? Viral vector based vaccines have their problems, too, and you generally cannot choose.
Mish
Mish
4 years ago
” It’s some sort of insanity to do a 10 week trial and put these into your body.”
A 10-week trial, insane or not, is now a trial of 7 months or so with hundreds of millions of people safely receiving vaccinations and about 3 deaths.
It is insanity to dispute the success of these vaccines on the basis of “lack of trials” 
Jackula
Jackula
4 years ago
Reply to  Mish
There has been a helluva lot more than three deaths from the Covid vaccines in the US. Almost 6500 deaths directly after the vaccination. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html And this is a voluntary reporting system and probably a low number. That being said the risk of the vax vs the risk of Covid for those with co-morbidities and advanced age is a no-brainer to get vaxxed. The argument for the low risk younger folks to get vaxxed is now trash since the vaccinated spread Covid easily.
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  Mish
3 deaths?  Be serious!  And how about all the side effects that are less than death?
JeffD
JeffD
4 years ago
It is not a matter of vaxers and anti-vaxers, but an individual assesment of risk. In a thinking society, that would be the point of discussion. I did a medical assesment specific to my conditions using the John Hopkins Covid risk calculator, and I have a one in one million chance of Dying from Covid. Anyone who lives their life acting on every threat that has a one in one million threat of severe consequences is foolish.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  JeffD
At least you have made a risk assessment. 
davidyjack
davidyjack
4 years ago
Reply to  JeffD
No adult has such a low chance of dying from Covid19 (especially with the uncertainty introduced by variants).   Even kids have a 1 in about 500,000 chance of dying from Covid19.
There is also Long covid19 to consider.
JeffD
JeffD
4 years ago
Reply to  davidyjack
I encourage you to send a polite letter to John Hopkins detailing why you are right and a group of doctors at one of the top ten medical facilities in the United States are wrong.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  JeffD
Sure they can be wrong because they have been wrong before. Appeal to authority is a weak argument.
JeffD
JeffD
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
So, you think Fauci is a hack rather than a scientist?
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  JeffD
Explain why he violated Obama’s moratorium on gain of function covid research by switching it to Wuhan and having it funded by a third party. He used to be a scientist but now he is a what?
threeblindmice
threeblindmice
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
wrong now because wrong before is an equally weak argument.  
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  threeblindmice
Meaning that one should not look at times they were wrong but only look at their diplomas? 
Carl_R
Carl_R
4 years ago
Reply to  davidyjack
Long Covid is the 1000 pound gorilla in the room that no one wants to talk about. We know that people who had SARS had death rates higher than average for many, many years after recovering. We know that many who get Covid will have long term, perhaps permanent, damage to various organs. I suspect most people will have some level of damage, but that for most it will be minor, though I suspect that each time they catch Covid in the years ahead, the damage will be cumulative.  I think it’s likely that this was a man-made virus, and one that will cause many long term effects.
Jackula
Jackula
4 years ago
Reply to  davidyjack
And your point? It looks like at least 4 in 100k are dying from Covid vaccines per the CDC VAERS system, without age stratification of the data we don’t know. The IFR for Covid is 1 in 500 but 90% of the deaths are in the over 50 crowd. I sure as hell wouldn’t force my kids to get vaxxed without better data and giving the trial on the mRNA tech 7-10 years 
Dr. Future
Dr. Future
4 years ago
Reply to  JeffD
If an average American had a one in a million change of dying from COVID then, our 615,000 US deaths from COVID so far would suggest a US population of 615,000 times one million = 615 trillion, which seems a little high. Understand that this tally includes five months of vaccinations, with about 50% vaccinated so far. I would surmise you assume your risk is less than the average American, but the virus has been running out of unvaccinated seniors for some time, and the “whole new ball game” Delta variant is targeting the young. If you are unvaccinated, then I assume your survival with the highly contagious and virulent Delta variant is far worse, and other game changers like Gamma are on the way, posing a danger to both vaccinated and unvaccinated, unless people knuckle in and get vaccinated enough to get herd immunity and stop this thing mutating. If we had the same conspiracy crowd around a generation or two ago, we would all now be in iron lungs with polio and smallpox lesions, but I guess they could take solace in their “freedom,” “preserved health” and not “knuckling under to the man.”   
JeffD
JeffD
4 years ago
Reply to  Dr. Future
There are about 8 billion people living on this planet. What we do in the United States has little or no consequence concerning mutations and spread. The genie is out of the bottle at this point. For those who wish to get vaccinated now, I encourage them to do so. Personally, I will take any vaccine that will significantly lower my personal risk, which will likely be a vaccine targetted at a more deadly mutation.
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  Dr. Future
The number of Covid dead in this country over the past 16 months is LESS than 1/5 of ONE percent!
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
“Who Remains Unvaccinated?”
A lot of people. The last i had heard, 34% of black people and 39% of Hispanic people were Covaxxed.
“Near-Death Experience of a Former Anti-Vaxxer”
Was he refused treatment with Ivermectin? His statement does not indicate he was treated with it.
In the recent Israeli ivermectin double blind study, on day one, one member of the of the already infected  Ivermectin group, had trouble breathing and went to the hospital. The Ivermectin recipient was released the next day, back to the “Covid Hotel,” doing well. In vitro, Ivermectin kills the Covid-19 virus in 24 hours. Used medicinally, IVM is not a cure, but it has anti-viral properties that are being ignored by the public health agencies.
The anti-vaxxer is being politically exploited for propaganda purposes. If i get Covid and am refused Ivermectin as treatment, it won’t be that I’ll be wishing i had gotten vaccinated. I’ll be angry that i wasn’t allowed by the FDA, to be treated by a doctor.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
So…I’ll just  say this one more time.
The proponents of Ivermectin, whom I admire, btw….have so far not managed to provide really great evidence that it works, The main meta-study that supported it’s use was fairly well debunked and it was withdrawn from publication. A good, large, double blind study is underway in the UK….and I hope it will add some useful info…..until then, Ivermectin is not something I’d risk my life on. Not with a decent vaccine available.
Monoclonal antibodies are the hot treatment now…..and positioning patients on their stomach instead of their backs…
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
“The main meta-study that supported it’s use was fairly well debunked and it was withdrawn from publication.”
There was a study in Egypt.
Pierre Kory, MD MPA
@PierreKory
IMO: 1) scientific fraud happens and 2) disinformation attacks on scientists with data that runs counter to corporate entities also happens.
From Prof. ElGazzar: “This story is fake and is not the actual raw data of my study and I will defend my work”
“It is an unfair attack on the biggest trial of Ivermectin from the enemies of the drug. I found the Guardian e-mail today in junk mail and I will sue them.”
Dr. Yeadon had to threaten the BBC, to get them to retract something they said about him.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
The Egypt study was part of it, but not all of it. In time, it will be sorted out. As of now, we have to wait. I do think Ivermectin is completely safe to use…not much down side of using it.
Corvinus
Corvinus
4 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
Also note the man in the picture is clearly overweight if not obese and is almost certain to have some kind of cardiovascular issues like hypertension and who knows what else. I had Covid sometime around April and all i got was a loss of smell. I’m also in the >1 in 1M camp on the johns hopkins risk calculator.
At this point there is a concerted effort to ostracize a segment of the population for wanting to be selective about what gets injected into their bodies and who have a well justified distrust of big pharma. It seems that people are the same no matter the century, it’s just what drives their hysteria that changes.
Mike 2112
Mike 2112
4 years ago
The Pfiser and Moderna vaccines are the first vaxes to use MRNA technology. This is a technology that was approved in 2008 for cancer treatment. You would like to think that before using this first of its kind gene therapy that there would be yrs of trials. Instead we were putting needles in millions of arms in about a yr after the disease hit the USA.
And why should a person who recovered from covid have to take a shot when they’re immunity is at least as good, if not better, than the immunity granted by the vaccine?
What’s the long term side effects of this vax? What is the long term side effects of this vax on ppl who had covid and recovered? Until those answers can be answered skepticism is completely rational and warranted.  
Feedback
Feedback
4 years ago
Reply to  Mike 2112
I’ve followed Mish for years, since his days on Art Bell. I’m surprised that he is not asking this same question.
Vaccinations, in general, are rarely given when a person has active immunity post infection. A lot of people, including myself, are holding out on vaccination because we have had the virus.
That’s the head scratcher here. We should be testing for antibodies and then looking at numbers of persons with active immunity via direct antigen exposure as well as post vaccination. This would give us a better idea of where we are on the road to herd immunity. 
Carl_R
Carl_R
4 years ago
Reply to  Mike 2112
I think that if you watch the recent MedCram video, you’ll have your answer. The protection from a Covid infection is somewhat less than the protection from a single shot of vaccine, while the protection from having had Covid, plus a single shot of vaccine, was much higher than either the protection from the vaccine or the protection from Covid alone.
Mike 2112
Mike 2112
4 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
No it is not. A recent study of ppl who had the Cov-1 virus in 2003 showed that 17 yrs later they still had T-cell memory to fight the disease. The study also said that it’s likely those ppl also had partial protection to covid-19.
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
That’s bull Carl and I have corrected you on this previously, yet you continue to push your narrative.  Why?
——–
Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection?
Nearly 40% of new COVID patients were vaccinated – compared to just 1% who had been infected previously.
David Rosenberg , Jul 13, 2021 9:24 AM
January 26, 2021
Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19
threeblindmice
threeblindmice
4 years ago
Reply to  Mike 2112
Covid death chances in near term:  0.5%
Long term risk of covid:  ?
vaxxed covid death chances:  0.025% (95% reduction)
Risk of vaccine death in near term:  0.0002%
Vax long term risk:  ?
So you’re weighing a 95% reduction TODAY in the risk of death vs. an unknown change in probability (don’t know if better or worse) of unknown long term risks.
To me, the tradeoff seems simple:  I’ll take the vax.
threeblindmice
threeblindmice
4 years ago
Reply to  Mike 2112
It’s not the first mRNA vaccine.  
Mike 2112
Mike 2112
4 years ago
Reply to  threeblindmice
Which was the first ?
Kevin
Kevin
4 years ago
The guy in the photo is obese. 
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  Kevin
Dumb too.
Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill
4 years ago
MAGA has always seemed cultish to me never truly holding Trump to any kind of standard beyond his rhetoric. Despite the vaccine being 10 years in the works as science was preparing for a major SARS outbreak for a while now, Trump took credit for developing the vaccine in record time, and yet it puzzles me this is the result…
“Partisanship also plays a major role with more than half (58%) of the “definitely not” group identifying as Republican or Republican-leaning.”
Mike 2112
Mike 2112
4 years ago
Reply to  Bungalow Bill
The 10 yrs research is complete nonsense. The strain was born in 2019.
Also, when was the first person injected with an MRNA vax?
2012?
2013?
2018?
What disease was that vax geared for?
If you are going to make that “10 yrs” claim, then you should be able to answer those questions.
michael67
michael67
4 years ago
“Anti-vaxxers are proven incapable of learning from anyone else’s experiences. Most will have to personally be on the death bed before learning anything.”  The same is to be said for vaxxers – many of them were pro-vax until they or their child were injured or killed by a vaccine.  Mom got the Covid vaccine and after the second shot started having horrible back spasms and is now on pain pills; her doctor says the spasms are from a 60 year old scar and has nothing to do with the recently received vaccine.
A co-worker’s brother in his 50’s died of a stroke shortly after receiving the J&J shot, despite being healthy before the shot.  But hey, it’s all good.  I’m sure the pittance the family might receive from some government agency will make up for a lost family member.  Which of course I will end up paying for (in the form of taxes) even though I was against it in the first place.
If these vaccines are safe and effective, why are the vaccine companies protected from lawsuits?  And why are they being protected from criticism in media outlets?
If these vaccines are safe and effective, why are they being pushed with the zeal of a used car salesman trying to move that lemon off his lot?  Anyone with an ounce of sense runs away from a “buy this now and get a free hamburger” deal.
Why are better solutions to preventing or surviving Covid (e.g. exercise, vitamins, lose weight, eat healthy) or drugs that help you recover (e.g. Ivermectin) not pushed instead of a jab?  Ah yes, no money in people not getting sick or using cheap existing drugs.  No need for constant booster shots either if you’re healthy.
Are these jabs better than natural immunity?  If I’ve been exposed to Covid through a family member or had it myself, is this jab better?  Historically the answer is “no”.  Seems the CDC no longer recognizes natural immunity.
Since we’ve reached the vaunted 70%, you’ve got your herd immunity.  But wait, now it’s 90% for herd immunity.  Oh no, a new variant, back to zero percent and start over!
tbergerson
tbergerson
4 years ago
Well the former “anti-vaxxer” clearly suffers from the most significant comorbidity, obesity.  I wonder, was he taking Zinc with an ionophore to enhance cellular uptake?  Vitamin D, C?  Did he get Ivermectin immediately upon getting a positive test or at the first signs of illness?
I am vaccinated.  My 16 year old daughter is not and will NOT be.  Almost zero people under 18 have died from COVID.  In 18 months.  In the entire US.  Aside from infants under 1, a grand total of 260 (as of July 24, according to CDC data).  And almost all of those had leukemia or other serious comorbidity (according to Dr Makary at Johns Hopkins).
It is almost a certainty that the number of deaths in KIDS that will be CAUSED by the vaccine will exceed the number of deaths in kids caused by the virus.  And that goes for college age kids too (928 deaths during entire pandemic in entire US for ages 18 through 24, and 384 of those 928 are ages 23 and 24 who arent really college age) who are now being FORCED to get the vaccine or give up their life long dream of a college education at the school of their choice.  Validated by both the Federal District Court in Indiana as the Circuit Court of Appeals for that District.
The level of “discourse” in the US on these subjects is deplorable.  Most of it censored, with the intervention of the Government itself, by the major players in the public square.
Anecdotal articles like this are very unhelpful.  Only yht enumbers in the aggregate matter for making policy.  And the policies implemented EVERYWHERE so far have been completely WRONG.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  tbergerson
“It is almost a certainty that the number of deaths in KIDS that will be CAUSED by the vaccine will exceed the number of deaths in kids caused by the virus.”
That statement is just plain wrong, sorry. You’re delusional. Let’s talk in a couple of years, when the numbers are in on that.
ajc1970
ajc1970
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
“Let’s talk in a couple of years, when the numbers are in on that.”
That’s a reasonable statement but it implies that the numbers aren’t in on that.  In which case, these are not reasonable statements:
“That statement is just plain wrong, sorry. You’re delusional.”
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  ajc1970
How about I change it to “You have no evidence to make such a statement, and your doing so reveals a substantial confirmation bias on your part.”
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Much better
dbannist
dbannist
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
We know the number of child deaths (299, as of today).  That’s statistically zero.  However, we do not know the number of deaths from the vaccine.  That’s an impossible thing to prove.  3 million people die of all causes every year in the USA.  That’s 10,000 a day.  Of those 10,000 odds are quite a few of them, probably several hundred, had the vaccine in the previous week.  They were going to die anyway from something but the vaccine gets blamed for it because people are looking for deaths from vaccines. 

People do not understand the necessity of population studies (not anecdotal evidence) to determine if mortality goes up or down after a vaccine.  With COVID, it appears to be a very dramatic fall in mortality, not increase, after taking the vaccine.  That means, mathematically, you are far better off at least short term taking the vaccine.  No one knows how many people die from the vaccine.  Anyone who says they do is a quack.

However, no one knows the long term effect of the vaccines either.  

I’m a marathon runner in absolutely perfect health.  My odds of long term COVID or dying from it are ridiculously low, but they are not zero.  Like all people, I’m concerned about catching it.  I take precautions.  I have not yet had the vaccine.  I want to watch it in others for a year, then I will take it.  If, in the meantime, I get COVID then I get it.  I’m weighing my risks.  However, I am absolutely appalled at the anti-vaxxers arguments which are non-scientific, not based on reality, and really skewing data on the vaccines (or just making it up).  I am not an anti-vaxxer.  I’ve weighed my options and want to wait another 6 months.  When I get the vaccine, I’ll take the Johnson and Johnson one.  New technology may be wonderful or it may not so I’ll just skip the MRNA vaccines.  

anoop
anoop
4 years ago
i thought near-death experiences were spiritual moments.
 
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  anoop
Some near-death experiences appear to involve spiritual revelations. I’m not sure if that’s the real deal or if it’s just interesting brain chemistry.
But I’m curious to find out, and I suppose we all will, in the fullness of time, as they say.
I think of death sort of like a fork on a flow chart…a binary event if you will.  We either go out like a failed incandescent bulb…or we find out there  really is something to the notion that consciousness is what gives rise to life, rather than vice versa. 
This is life’s greatest mystery, and the subject of some very interesting philosophical discussions. I recommend reading Owen Barfield, if you can hack his difficult prose. 
ILHawk
ILHawk
4 years ago
How many of you who are pro covid vaccine are fat?  How many pro covid  vaxers are normal weight?  
How many of you anti covid vaxers are Trumper?  How many anti covid vaxers are not Trumpers?
I’m not pro trump and am a normal.  I’m not overweight.
Damn you fat asses that shut down the economy.  Damn you carb addicts too lazy to eat well and exercise.  Damn you.  This fat group represents now 2/3 of the population.  Damn you.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  ILHawk
Typical human behavior is to (a) justify one’s own position and (b) lay the blame on somebody else. This extends to other arenas beyond public health, unfortunately.
If I could ask (and I do not mean this in any mean way):
What is your particular reservation about being vaccinated? What data do you have to support your decision?
How do you calculate your odds of getting infected?
How do you calculate your odds of having a non-threatening course of the disease if you were to get it? 
ILHawk
ILHawk
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
I’m in the minority.  I eat well.  My risk is low.  To digress though, those of us in ag are not surprised by the variant in spread.  Confined hog farms give and excellent Example of vaxing high numbers and variant spread.  Also we see the same pharma companies role out new chemistry with over use and nowhere near enough testing for emergencies.  No controlling waterhemp is a huge problem.  To use a well known chem but not med pharma think Monsanto  and roundup.  Its safe it’s safe…it wasn’t.  Kills people though denied for decades and roundup became almost useless.
You shouldn’t vax a whole population unless you want a disaster.  Think penicillin.  
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  ILHawk
I used to raise heritage pigs. I hate Monsanto, and I hate Round-Up. I also hate that herbicides have ruined using most manure as fertilizer.
So….it is true that natural selection occurs and vaccine resistant  variants can happen. But it is highly unlikely that we are seeing that now …because we haven’t even been vaccinating long enough to see the beginning of that with COVID. Unfortunately it is mutating like crazy with no help from us. 
It should be viewed as a potential problem, but not as a reason to skip the shot. It’s a risk v. benefit question, and the benefit right now far outweighs that risk.
I still think the odds for COVID greatly favor getting the shot. But thanks for your honest reply
Penicillin still works btw, for a broad range of infections. If it did not, we’d be in a world of sh*t. I prescribe it every day. But my patients aren’t in a hospital with MRSA growing everywhere.
ILHawk
ILHawk
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Reasonable discussion…thx.  there is a pot of unknown.  I also have a child with a blood clotting disorder.  That’s a quandary.  AM waiting to see more data on novavax.
Mike 2112
Mike 2112
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
You ever get a cold 2 yrs in a row? How many colds have you caught in your life? For most of us the answer is too many to remember.
Why? B/c the common cold is a Coronavirus. And it mutates easily. Just like the flu.
Have you ever heard the CDC say that if we achieved 100% vax rate for the flu that it will go away? No. Because there are too many strains of the flu and it’s common for the flu virus to mutate. The 1918 strain went away once enough ppl had natural immunity, but other strains kept rolling on and killing ppl to this very day.
The world has seen many SARS Covid outbreaks, including quite a few in the last 20 yrs. Vax away, but get used to SARS killing ppl for the rest of your life and/ or until medical technology gets so good that we conquer all germs.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  Mike 2112
“You ever get a cold 2 yrs in a row? How many colds have you caught in your life? For most of us the answer is too many to remember. “
You know Mike, I am so glad you asked that.
No, I haven’t had a cold in years and years.
I might  average one every ten years. But then, I wear a mask every day, all day long. Funny how that works
ajc1970
ajc1970
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
We used non-sterilizing vaccines (aka “leaky”) for this disease.  That allows continued transmission, without the normal selective pressure towards less virulent strains.
There are numerous peer-reviewed papers on the result of this with chickens and Marek’s disease. The most recent, in 2019, conclusively linked our non-sterilizing vaccine to Marek’s progression from a minor-symptom virus to a disease that is 100% fatal.
So… these are more than potential problems.  This virus will mutate (they all do), and over millions of people and a handful of decades, and at some point, the virus WILL chance upon a more virulent (deadly) and more contagious form. That will circle the globe and wipe out anybody who could not or would not get the vax.
Too late to close the barn doors though.   We will eventually turn COVID into the Boogey Man that those with microphones are saying it is.
Curious-Cat
Curious-Cat
4 years ago
Reply to  ILHawk
Now you can realize how members of other minorities feel about social conditions which affect them.
ILHawk
ILHawk
4 years ago
Reply to  Curious-Cat
Pls explain
Curious-Cat
Curious-Cat
4 years ago
Reply to  ILHawk
Ok. You feel disadvantaged because there are fat people who you may think are proliferating the virus. Poor people feel disadvantaged because there are people with more resources than they. Gay people feel disadvantaged because of homophobia. The religious feel disadvantaged because everyone does not believe as they do. Atheists feel disadvantaged because the religious want them to believe in one or another gods. Pacifists feel disadvantaged because some of their tax dollars go to kill people. And so on. Each of us is on the left hand side of somebody’s bell shaped curve.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
I noticed that there is no category for those who caught covid and therefore feel no need to get the vaccine. 35 Million Americans have tested positive for covid so out of 209 million adults that group would account for about half of those not interested in getting the vaccine leaving 15% of diehards. If you had tested positive for covid your motivation would be less to get the shot. I also noticed that it is not broken down by age group either and as we all know age counts a lot with covid. Should small children and babies get the vaccine too? Dogs and cats regularly have caught covid from their families so we have to give them the vaccine too. 
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
I think COVID survivors or people who had asymptomatic infections and do have adequate antibodies (proven by lab results)  have a good case for skipping the shot, if they have concerns. I still think the shot does 99.99% of those people no harm at all, and it might raise their titer….I think most of us who got vaccinated last year are going to be getting third shots soon to do the same thing.
I expect children will be getting vaccinated as soon as the trials in progress now are completed. With over 4 billion doses of the various vaccines now given on adults without undue mortality or morbidity, I think the likelihood of kids having problems with the vaccines is fairly low….but trial are in progress. We’ll see.
Although pets have gotten COVID, I don’t think there is any evidence yet (thank goodness) that pets give COVID to humans. I wouldn’t recommend kissing your dog though. COVID is not the only deadly disease you could catch from a pet, in case you didn’t know.
I’d vaccinate my dogs if I thought it might help…and I would force them to take the shot. They’re socialists at feeding time, but they always act like born-again Christian Republicans at the vet.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
No need to force your dogs to go through the trauma of getting shots. Just have them wear masks whenever outside and in public.
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
The CDC says 120 million total infections.  If each infection generates antibodies, then most of the country is already protected and does not need a so-called vaccine shot.
whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
“Anti-vaxxers are proven incapable of learning from anyone else’s experiences. Most will have to personally be on the death bed before learning anything.”

It is not limited to any one group.   Practically the whole country has been drowned in the YOYO (you’re-on-your-own) mentality and the consequences have been horrifying on multiple fronts.

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