United Airlines Mandates Vaccines For All Employees But Not Passengers

Three Choices

With a new Mandatory Vaccination Policy, United Airlines effectively gave employees three choices: Get vaccinated, quit, be fired. 

United Airlines Holdings Inc. will require its 67,000 U.S. employees to be vaccinated this fall, the first major airline to take this step as the Delta variant drives a nationwide increase in Covid-19 infections.

The facts are crystal clear: everyone is safer when everyone is vaccinated,” the executives wrote. “Over the last 16 months, CEO Scott Kirby has sent dozens of condolences letters to the family members of United employees who have died from COVID-19. We’re determined to do everything we can to try to keep another United family from receiving that letter.”

Data Crystal Clear

Yes, the data is crystal clear despite numerous protests that the vaccine is experimental, Covid risks are low, and the whole thing is a fraud perpetrated on the public.

Texas

Mississippi

Wait, It’s “Only” 85%!

The amusing thing about the argument presented is that even a 20% difference would be very significant.

US

Experimental 

70% in US Have at Least 1 Vaccination Shot, Who are the Holdouts?

The data shows Delta has scared a lot of people in getting vaccinated. After stagnating for a while the vaccination rate has gone up. 

For details please see 70% in US Have at Least 1 Vaccination Shot, Who are the Holdouts?

Yes, It’s Legal

The United Airline pilots union told members that the policy warrants further negotiations but the union believes the policy is legal.

Like it or not, vaccine mandates are legal. 

For discussion, please see Many Companies Now Have Mandatory Vaccination Policies: Should This Be Legal?

Johns Hopkins reports Tyson Foods, Google, Netflix, Disney, Walmart, Uber, Lyft, Morgan Stanley, The Washington Post, and United Airlines have at least partial mandates.

The Choice

People working for those companies have the choice I noted at the top of the article: Get vaccinated, quit, or be fired.

Some CEOs do not believe that is the best policy, but 4 major companies do, and it’s their choice to make. 

For companies whose employees work in close contact or in high Covid transmission environments like Tyson, I suggest mandatory vaccinations are the certainly the right choice. 

It’s also the right of employees to protest by quitting.

In an aspect I have not yet heard discussed, I wonder about the possibility of lawsuits against high-risk companies like Tyson who do not mandate vaccinations if cases then spread. 

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Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
CDC Director Makes Case Vaccination Passports are Futile, Vaccines Do Not Prevent COVID Infection or Delta Variant Transmission
August 6, 2021 | Sundance | 817 Comments
They are just making up narratives now, and the media are not calling them out on it….
The Director of the CDC made an important admission during an interview today on CNN.   CDC Director Rochelle Walensky stated the vaccine does not prevent COVID-19 infection, nor does it stop the vaccinated person from transmitting the infection or the delta variant.  According to Director Walensky, the only benefit from the vaccine now is presumably that it reduces the severity of symptoms.
If a vaccinated and non-vaccinated person have the same capacity to carry, shed and transmit the virus – with or without symptoms – then what difference does a vaccination passport or vaccination ID make?
….
metalhead
metalhead
4 years ago
There is a rather large problem here. United has at least a partially unionized labor force.  Unlike management positions, or the typical American corporate “at will” employment, unionized workers have greater protections against being fired, changing working conditions, hours, etc.
No matter what you think about the policy, it is a very bad precedent for any union to just let management arbitrarily change their working conditions (hours, required certifications, and here, required health immunizations) outside of the normal collective bargaining process.  For United pilots and flight attendants, i would highly recommend raising hell over this to your union leaders.  Who knows what other changes management might slip in outside of the negotiated contracts.
Sadly this appears to be one more example where contract law, which goes back for centuries and is the basis for much of our common law, is being recklessly ignored.  For United employees not to challenge this through either the courts or the threat of a strike would be quite foolhardy.
I suspect United ends up backing down on this, at least for non-management employees.  Even the threat of a strike by pilots would probably send their stock price back towards March 2020 lows.
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
4 years ago
it is becoming increasingly obvious that the vaxxed ones are the REAL danger these days, they may become anonymous super spreaders without getting sick themselves yet uncontrolllably contaminating their surroundings, even other vaxxed people whose jabs are losing efficiency after 2 or 3 months and whose  natural immunity is now dramatically undermined will become victims of their woke CNN brainwashed  brothers and sisters ….LOL ! What a fn INSANE world we ve created in no time ! ADMIRABLE situation ….Gonna add to my Pfizer stock, the only way is up !  ….for unvaxxed shareholders anyway … lol again!  
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Took a non-stop cross country flight on United last week. First time I’ve flown them in years. Brand new planes and you can barely feel any fatigue after a 5 hour plane ride. Service was great. Mask non-compliance was non-existent. I thanked the entire flight crew for the experience and told them I would be back. 
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Since the federal court in Texas ruled against workers at the private hospital in Houston that did not want to get vaccines, the barn door is now open for all employers to mandate vaccines. In the words of the judge, you have the right not to get the vaccine and the right to go work somewhere else if you don’t meet the requirements of the job. 
whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
That makes a heck of a lot of sense.  Because as we all know, United Airlines employees are highly vulnerable to the virus, but its passengers are not!   /s
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Everyone needs to understand that the Babylon Bee is a satire site.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
I saw a Youtube yesterday, in which actress Jennifer Aniston said she has dropped some of her friends for not being vaccinated or refusing to say whether they are or not. Bigotry is alive and well.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
4 years ago
Mish, what do you think the legality will be for United Airlines over this forced vax mandate?
Not about job status, but rather how libel will they be if someone is forced to take the vax and gets sick. Either now, or from say long term health issues 5 or 10 years down the road if lord forbid, one of the vaccines causes a verifiable long term health problem? Presumably United would then be libel for forcing someone to take the vaccine against their will.
Scooot
Scooot
4 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
I’d guess proving it would take years. Look how long cigarette manufacturers managed to avoid liability for. 
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
United wouldn’t be libel for anything. No one is forcing you to get the vaccine. You just can’t work there if you don’t.  It would be akin to suing because you have to wear a seatbelt and arguing that if you get into an accident and still die, that mandating the seatbelt was at fault.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
4 years ago
By this logic, a boss should be able to force a subordinate to provide sex for him in exchange for keeping her job because no one is forcing her to provide sex and she can freely move to another company. Coercion is coercion.
Companies are libel for lots of stuff they ask their employees to do as part of the job description. That’s why at least at my company there are lots of training courses on safety for handling materials and other stuff because the company is on the hook if something goes wrong (ie someone accidentally gets poisoned due to a chemical they have to handle). In the case of Covid it matters because the vax is still not FDA approved so you are on your own if something goes wrong. If the government had backstopped everyone health wise from any complications (long or short term) I believe the numbers of people vaccinated would be a lot higher.
Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear
4 years ago
Where is the data showing COVID cases/ deaths by smoking/vaping/nonsmoking? Smoking and vaping have been shown to significantly increase respiratory illness and death. An open and free society requires this information as part of the scientific method and proper risk assessment.
michael67
michael67
4 years ago
Mish – I would like to see data on how many Texas deaths were from illegal immigrants, the obese, the elderly, etc…
I also noticed you keep conveniently leaving out Florida – highly vaccinated but still a high number of deaths.  Why?
Still no addressing the fact that the vaccine makers are immune from any sort of liability.  Safe and effective?  Then why are folks who are injured or the family of the murdered not allowed to sue?  Instead they’re left in bureaucracy limbo hoping to get a pittance from the government that will in no way compensate them.

Finally, what’s the big bluster?  Whether or not I took the vaccine should be no one’s business, right?  As long as I’m not sick (still waiting for proper studies of asymptomatic spreaders – anyone?), no problem.  And if you’ve gotten the vaccine, again no problem even if I am sick, right?  And if you haven’t, well that’s your choice too – at least I used to think it was.  I guess we’re all 
PS.  Maybe you’ll let this post through, Mish.  I noticed my post in your “70%…” article never made it to the comments section and is no longer in my profile (it was there earlier).
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
4 years ago
Reply to  michael67
Florida has a higher percentage of old people relative to most states since it’s a very popular place to retire. There is a reason that its called ‘Gods Waiting Room’.
So it should not shock anyone that Florida death totals are high.
whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
Reply to  michael67
Florida’s overall vaccination rate is average.  And considering that a larger percent of them are old, and the vax rates among the old is very high, what that means is the rest of the population i.e. the younger people, has a very poor vaccination rate.     The delta variant can kill younger people, and particularly those in their 30s are sitting ducks for the virus since they are largely unvaccinated.
Casual_Observer2020
Casual_Observer2020
4 years ago
Reply to  michael67
It is well known that the vaccines aren’t as effective in those 80 and older. The immune response was about 50% lower. Chances are if you had no immune response to the vaccines, the delta or lambda strain are going to kill you, even if you are healthy.
shamrock
shamrock
4 years ago
How about half of the flights reserved for vaccinated passengers?  Full proof required, no worthless honor system.
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  shamrock
Make your own cards:
Or buy them cheap from China/SK, etc.
ajc1970
ajc1970
4 years ago

There are states (such as Oregon) where the law prohibits employers from forcing employees to vaccinate. How does United plan on handling that?

Call_Me
Call_Me
4 years ago
The crux of the argument to compel the population of a particular country vaccinate is to inhibit virus mutations because the unvaccinated are the cause of mutations.  This conveniently overlooks the fact that most of the world’s population will remain unvaccinated (by choice or lack of opportunity) for years to come.  Also –
Mish
Mish
4 years ago
Reply to  Call_Me
That is correct
John Hussman wrote something similar
Dr. Manhattan23
Dr. Manhattan23
4 years ago
Reply to  Call_Me
Very good point. The mutations can still happen. Most of the world isn’t vaccinated. They should just give push ivermectin. Would help solve the problem I think. Tons of research on it
Call_Me
Call_Me
4 years ago
One should do what one thinks is best for them and those they are close to.  The UAL route is closer to authoritarian government (by way of corporate citizens) in the U.S., with certain European nations skipping the corporations and just undertaking the undemocratic exercise themselves. 
In the end this is about compelling someone to do something, with the mechanisms being peer pressure, guilt, incentives, and a few others.  Amazing how far the world has come in just under 2 years.
StickToEconomics
StickToEconomics
4 years ago
Reply to  Call_Me
Except that the vaccine just (at best) masks the symptoms.  The viral load of those who are vaccinated is the same as those who are unvaccinated.  
In other words, mutations will occur even if everyone is 100% vax’d, because it is still being transmitted among the vax’d!!!
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
I’m vaccinated and I’m still not flying nearly as much as I did before 2020.  I just booked a flight to Indianapolis to go see my friend Dan A. speak next month….but I wouldn’t be surprised to see his seminar have to get canceled due to COVID. Sure hope not.
I have planned to make several trips to Utah this next winter…..now that both the missus and I can buy cheap Senior discount lift tickets. I’ve bought season passes to Alta/Snowbird and I plan to use them..but I think recreational travel is likely to remain subdued for people with kids. I wouldn’t want to expose young kids to the risks of being cooped up on a plane with even one possible COVID positive person onboard. 
Easier to get employees to get vaccinated than to require it of paying customers….and the logistics of enforcement would be fairly impossible, I expect.
Masks continue to provide a certain amount of safety, in my opinion, and I’d say I’m an expert. I’ve been conducting an experiment now for 18 months that involves betting my life on that, and so far it’s working out quite well.
Anecdotal? Yes. Wrong? Prove it. Show me a shred of evidence that masking does not significantly reduce viral loads. Real evidence I mean. Not  crap evidence.
ajc1970
ajc1970
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
“Anecdotal? Yes. Wrong? Prove it. Show me a shred of evidence that masking does not significantly reduce viral loads. Real evidence I mean. Not  crap evidence.”

The burden of evidence is actually in the other direction when you want to force people to do something, and the standard needs to be higher than what’s being put forth as “science” these days.

You need to prove that mandates have the intended effect, AND don’t have adverse effects that negate any benefits.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
I’m assuming you are using N95 masks at work?
A large majority of the population is not. Most are just using designer cloth masks with some icon / image on it. I can’t imagine those are particularly helpful.
When people talk about masks being effective I assume they mean correctly worn N95 masks and that should be clarified vs just wearing masks.
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Everyone should understand that there are no specific manufacturing standards for common masks?  This why they can be sold for 10 cents each and still  allow the seller to make a profit.
Masks can have lose fibers that are sucked into someone’s lungs, just like with asbestos fibers.  They are loosely woven and inadequate at stopping viruses fragments that are able to through the mask like a mosquito passes through a chain link fence.
This doesn’t mean that the masks don’t trap stuff.  They trap bacteria and other pathogens as you can read here:
——–
Dangerous pathogens found on children’s face masks
06/16/2021
StickToEconomics
StickToEconomics
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
And I’ve been traveling all over the world maskless for the last 18 months and not a problem.  I’ve flown at least twice a month over the last 18 months.  So my ancedote of going maskless as much as possible surely overcomes yours where you are afraid to leave your home.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
“99% of those dying now were not vaccinated.”
Those 99% didn’t receive Ivermectin, either. The FDA is blocking a life saving therapy, that in vitro, kills the Covid-19 virus in 24 hours.
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
And 99% of what number?  100?  1000?  10,000?  100,000?  My best guess is that the dead are between 100 & 1000, so regardless, 99% of such a low number is not particularly worrisome or impressive. 
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
When I try to copy a post here via select/Ctrl-C (using latest Chrome browser), I can copy the body but the poster name can’t be copied as it appears to be an image.  So what you get in place of the username is “A popover with more user information”.  This is not helpful.  If possible, it would be more helpful to find a way to allow the user name to be copied so that when I save an interesting post, I also get the posting name for attribution.   
Mish
Mish
4 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Will send in a ticket
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Stanley Milgram book: Obedience to Authority.
Push the button and administer the shock on command. Turn up the voltage and push the button, on command. Repeat. Dr. Chris Martinson was talking the other day about “shock induced aggression,” on his Youtube channel.
He said look it up on Google.
Scientists have studied human nature. Governments use it to their advantage.
Dr. Connors, head of the NIH, said vaccinated parents should wear masks at home in front of their unCovaxxinated children. He meant it. After a backlash, he “clarified” his statement to rescind it.
The Covaxxinated are told to push the button and administer the shock to the unCovaxxed. Stanley Milgram’s experiment was a success. Obedience to Authority.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
And the vast numbers of people getting  all their info from social media  keep pretending they’re valiant resistance fighters against the over-reaching global elites,  while swilling the beer advertised during NFL commercials.
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
If the goal is to ensure that people are protected from Covid (or supposedly, from transmitting Covid to others), why aren’t antibodies obtained via a previous Covid infection considered equal to a vaccine jab?
Over 110 MILLION people have tested positive for Covid, per the CDC website.  Presumably, these infections generated antibodies and these people are fully protected against reinfection (at least as well and probably better than the vaccine jabs, for which we are seeing plenty of secondary, breakthrough infections, indicating that the vaccines are not as protective as advertised..
Why isn’t the MSM discussing this?  Why aren’t Libertarian and conservative lawyers suing over this dichotomy?
Ignoring this important aspect is one of the major reasons why so many believe that there is something in these vaccine jabs that the government wants to get into people’s bodies.
Mish
Mish
4 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Why no discussion?
It takes 2 vaccinations, not 1 to ward off Delta.
Is there any evidence that prior infection with no vaccine is effective against Delta?
Perhaps there is, but I have not seen any
 
And who precisely is there to file a lawsuit against?
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  Mish
This refers to the “latest wave”, which I have to assume means Delta.
Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection?
Nearly 40% of new COVID patients were vaccinated – compared to just 1% who had been infected previously.
David Rosenberg , Jul 13, 2021 9:24 AM
AND
Antibody responses following SARS-CoV-2 infection more potent than vaccine-elicited ones
By Sally Robertson, http://b.Sc.
Aug 1 2021
I have more.
What exactly in this post looks like spam and is causing this msg to be generated:
The language in this comment looks like spam. You can edit the comment or submit it anyway for moderator review.
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  Mish
Still waiting for you to review and release my post from a few days ago that was flagged as spam and requiring review.
whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Antibodies are specific to an infection.  So, if you caught COVID alpha variant earlier, those antibodies might be useless against a Delta variant.   Vaccines are designed to encompass multiple variants.     Still, of course, the vaccine you took in May might be quite ineffective about a future variant, say, in November.   

That is why the booster vaccines are being developed.  It is a lot better to get a booster shot than trying to catch the new variant and hoping and praying that your body generates antibodies for that variant!  

Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
Not true when it comes to natural immunity. Natural immunity is by design broad spectrum and doesn’t target, in this case, on a specific configuration of the spike protein.
However, the mRNA gene therapy shots are specific to a particular spike protein configuration, which is why regular boosters are required.
“Better living through chemistry” doesn’t apply with these shots.
whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Well, lots of the so-called natural immunity people (those who think they have it, or those who think they will get it) are biting the dust.   Good going!   Sheesh!
whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
There was a big measles outbreak in Disneyland a few years ago.   Must be the natural immunity people rolling the dice!   LOL
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
You are so dumb!
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
I got the vaccine and the only thing it did was hurt my arm for a few days. And I think the fear is overblown. But, I don’t trust any data coming from the government. Everything has become extremely political and it would be very easy to skew the numbers to make it look any way you want. For example, maybe many who were vaccinated were ruled for it to be impossible to die of covid, so covid couldn’t possibly be the cause of death. I think the democrats feel they won in 2020 because of covid and will do anything to make covid fear last through the next election.
Mish
Mish
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
I understand the sentiment but is Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, etc., skewing the data? 

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