Trump won a military battle, but that was never in doubt. Overall, the US much weaker.
Strategically Weaker US
Grok “Outcome: US tactical win, fragile diplomatic truce. Long-term depends on talks starting Friday.”
A tactical win and strategic losses can both be correct views.
The above strategic vs tactical discussion happened before I noticed this assessment by Bloomberg writer Alex Wickham.
Please consider Trump’s Iran War Leaves the US Looking Weakened to Adversaries by Alex Wickham.
The ceasefire in Iran has reinforced views among both adversaries and the NATO alliance that President Donald Trump’s campaign against the Tehran regime marks a strategic setback, bolstering China and Russia while squandering American strengths, according to people familiar with the thinking across capitals in Europe and the Middle East.
While Moscow and Beijing fear US military and intelligence superiority, they have seen it couldn’t force Iran’s capitulation, the people said. The tensions in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, which culminated in Trump threatening to leave the alliance, have left lasting doubts over his commitment to its defense.
The two-week ceasefire, mediated by Pakistan, will also dent Trump’s credibility as a negotiator and likely further deter Russian President Vladimir Putin from making concessions in Ukraine, according to the people, who were granted anonymity to speak candidly about their assessments of the war conducted by their ally.
“Although Iran has suffered huge physical damage and much loss of life, it emerges strategically stronger,” former UK National Security Adviser Peter Ricketts said. “The regime has survived. It has shown the massive leverage control of Hormuz gives them.”
“It’s certainly not a victory in that the United States has nowhere achieved any of its military objectives,” Long Island University Director of International Relations Dalia Fahmy told Bloomberg TV. “Actually, the war has cost the United States much more than anticipated.”
Iran wants a permanent control over the waterway going forward and after the war ends, according to a person with knowledge of the negotiations who asked not to be identified because of sensitivity of the information. [Mish: There is nothing truly sensitive about that. Trump even wants in on the tolls.]
In the Gulf, there is particular alarm among some countries that their initial pleas to the Trump administration not to proceed with the conflict went unheeded, according to people familiar with their thinking. And Gulf officials may see walking away with the Tehran regime in place as even worse, they said, with concern over Trump’s unpredictability prompting them to strengthen alliances elsewhere, they said.
More broadly, Trump’s threat to destroy Iran’s civilization will make it harder for the US to paint itself as a benign hegemon, in contrast to Russia and China, which the West routinely accuses of war crimes and human rights abuses, they said. They warned this may push so-called “middle ground” countries toward Moscow and Beijing, suggesting it may take years of diplomacy to undo.
The Iran campaign has been a “serious setback” for Trump, said Wu Xinbo, director at Fudan University’s Center for American Studies in Shanghai who previously advised the Chinese Foreign Ministry. “When he comes to Beijing now, he’ll be frustrated and will realize that China will have to play an even larger role,” said Wu, who spoke before the ceasefire was announced.
“There’s been a huge amount of damage, economic human cost that we haven’t really calculated yet,” Sanam Vakil, director of the Middle East and North Africa program at Chatham House, told Bloomberg TV. “Relations in the region have been set back, I would say, by a decade if not two.”
Trump Declares ‘Decisive’ Victory, but Who Really Won the Iran War?
All of the above points by Wickham are both well-stated, and obvious.
It was the subject of my post earlier today Trump Declares ‘Decisive’ Victory, but Who Really Won the Iran War?
If the US accepts Iran’s 10 demands, Trump reportedly has, including a toll booth, Iran will have won.
Trump now says it’s fake news that he has agreed to Iran’s terms.
But here you go.
Trump Eyes Hormuz Tolls as a “Joint Venture” With Iran
“We’re thinking of doing it as a joint venture. It’s a way of securing it — also securing it from lots of other people.” “It’s a beautiful thing”
The EZ- Pass Solution
That would sure be “beautiful” especially if the EZ-PASS tolls go straight to a Trump-controlled account.
Complete Capitulation
How can anyone not come away with the view that Trump totally capitulated given the joint venture proposal (whether you think that will happen or not)?
I believe the above person means Pakistan.
Trump was looking for any way out, and had to use Pakistan as an intermediary to do so.
Unfortunately the truce has been shattered already.
Truce Shattered
Trump is dispatching his negotiating team, led by Vice President JD Vance, Special Envoy Witkoff and Jared Kushner, to Islamabad for talks this weekend.
“The first round of those talks will take place on Saturday morning, local time, and we know we look forward to those in-person meetings,” said Leavitt.
Leavitt said reporting that the Strait is closed is false. “It has been relayed to him privately that that is what’s taking place, and that these reports publicly are false.”
Strait Not Yet Open
It’s actually 50 percent better than reported above.
Three ships have passed through the strait.
More Humiliation for Trump Is Ahead
Iran can and has kept the strait closed. It is doing so with military ships that were allegedly destroyed.
Trump’s only options are to break the truce, make more concessions to Iran, or delay again with oil prices heading back up.
These negotiations can last a long time. Either Trump makes major concessions or it’s ‘déjà vu all over again’ in a few weeks.
Meanwhile, the strait is not open. But be grateful most of the bombing has stopped, for now.
What a surprise, from his Excellency, Mr. Bankruptcy himself. Not!
Two corrections:
(1) Not Trump is a weaker position. Rather, *majority* of us. That’s, parties that do not like a bully in the Gulf.
(2) The war really unveiled the inevitable. We were down this path of years. This was an attempt to move to another direction.
Bully. The US is the bully, in the Gulf and every Gulf.
They just hit a snag bullying, tha’s all.
Years. Iran has been under an illegal siege for 47 years, longer really.
Iran saved Canada.Trump says NO Canada annexation.
Curious. Did you actually believe annexation was on the table?
Trump announced “no annexation of Canada” recently!
Trump changes his mind every few minutes. He still wants Canada and Greenland.
Of course he does. Every american president has since 1812. Trump was just dumb enough to say it out loud.
I’m just curious if people actually thought he would do it.
“ will likely conclude that a war with Iran is basically off the table unless they do something really crazy. Which they actually might, given that US intelligence believes that they tried to kill Trump.”
And how is this crazy different than what US did with Iran leadership?
Tit for tat?
Trump did promise to create wealth “like it’s never been seen before”.
It’s just he created a $60 billion dollar toll booth for Iran and Oman (with Iran keeping the books… in CNY currency hehe). By comparison the Panama canal makes a measly $5 billion per year.
از پرزیدنت ترامپ به خاطر دوباره باشکوه کردن ایران متشکریم!
Thank you President Trump for making Persia great again!
I wonder if Panama is taking notes.
And Yemen.
BOYS! Please, Please, It’s Too Much Winning. We Can’t Take It Anymore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS2_AYt8-Z0
Who will pay those tolls?
Not the US, but a lot of countries that gave Trump the middle finger when he asked for help.
Strategy? Or petty grumbling?
Either way, I suspect the Empire will strike back.
Joint with Iran and Oman makes sense. I doubt the U.S. can wrangle their way into that.
Even better. When Iran and Oman inevitably politicize their tolls the US can wash their hands and let Europe and Asia figure it out.
You’re the perfect MAGA supporter – not too bright.
Feel better?
“Some say” that he has shot his wad.
The strait is international waters so it isn’t Irans or the US to decide on tolls. If international straits can become tollways then what is to prevent Malaysia doing the same to the strait of Malacca? How about Spain and the Gibraltar Strait? Egypt with the Tiran Strait? Maybe Yemen will start charging tolls? Maybe Russia with the Article route?
Trump was foolish in how he started this war, but once started he needs to finish it with regime change even if he has to bomb the crap out of Iran
He did bomb the crap out of Iran. Got any better ideas? No? Neither does Trump.
There were no tolls before Trump started the war. Iran has a point, someone needs to pay for all the shit the Americans & Israelis broke.
Arm the Persians and watch the fireworks from the sidelines.
They did… CIA/Mossad confirmed sent weapons, Starlink comms and infiltrated protests in Jan to make them more violent and elicit violence from IRGC. The US/Israel shot our shot and failed. This is classic US statecraft. We did the same in Maidan (’14) and countless other places including Iran in ’53.
PS, Bessent admits that the protests were about the destruction of the Iranian economy under US/global sanctions. He bragged about it publicly.
We (the US) are becoming an immoral country.
“We (the US) are becoming an immoral country.”
We have been the evil empire for a long time now. Trump just doesn’t even bother to pretend otherwise.
You seriously think the limited strikes so far in Iran counts as bombing the crap out of Iran? They still have bridges, airports, roads, power lines, export terminals and warehouses that have hardly been touched. And even that is way less than what happened in WW2 to Tokyo. Berlin and Dresden to get them to either say uncle or to fall.
You’re not going to get what you want. You’ll end up like the old Nixon guys who mutter about how we could have won Vietnam. Whatever you thought Trump was, he wasn’t. He made a deal that gives him nothing he wanted.
He wanted to get out of this somehow.
how is killing possibly millions of people– which is what will happen if you destroy power lines, loads, warehouses etc…
tokyo and dresden bombings are what led to war crime laws.
How about the US removes all sanctions, stops bombing them, allows them to refine for fuel, demands Israel give up its nukes and F35s so they can’t attack Iran? Do you think Iran would still hate us? Don’t be a psychopath.
Dresden is generally considered a significant warcrime and shook the policy of strategic bombing.
No one wants that.
Off base. The war crimes did not get Berlin & Tokyo to capitulate.
The Germans didn’t capitulate until the Red Army was in Berlin and they had no choice. The Japanese capitulated when the Red Army declared war and cut through their million man army in Manchuria like a hot knife through butter — they were afraid of losing core Japanese territory.
It seems that you think it’s okay to torture a baby to get his father to confess.
How about this and how about that.
These are called ‘finding out’ after Trump fucked around.
Iran has the capability to destroy all of the Gulf countries infrastructure and Israel. if you want to fuck around some more, you can find out.
Maybe all that will happen regarding tolls. It is still cheaper than rebuilding the damage destroying Iran will cause.
Trump was stupid to do this. He would be even more stupid to try to finish it.
Go own some Libs and yuk it up with the other maga folks on the internet.
That’s why they sat on their hands while they got trounced?
That’s some serious 4D chess that Khomeini was playing.
They absolutely do have that capability. Offensive missiles and drones are dirt cheap (compared to the defensive systems) and hey have a steady pipeline of those things from Russia and China. They have shown great restraint, but it’s most likely because they are waiting for the defensive missiles to run dry before sending out their “good stuff”.
They had no defenses. 1000s of sorties a day and they shot down 2(?) fighters. Every day they showed “great restraint” the “good stuff” was getting turned into rumble.
Their only weapon was $4 gas. Everything else was cheap china crap.
Stand-off weapons. The US never achieved air supremacy.
It’s actually America AD that has been shown to be singularly ineffective, overrated, and far too expensive.
Contrary to popular belief, they are not crazy and have responded to prior attacks (coup, sanctions, attacks on Damascus embassy, killing of Soleimani, Stuxnet cyberattack, June ’25 bombings) in a very measured, disciplined way. Only in this go-around have the Iranians decided they’ve had enough. They’ve been much more restrained than we would have been.
For the current administration to be “winning” the war – all they need is very little conversation/press about Epstein. On that account they are winning.
I thought the Iranian Navy was destroyed?
Must be the Ghost Ship of Hormuz enforcing the tolls
Hyperbolie: the imovable object and the unstoppable force. Except the USA is no longer the unstoppable force. It’s the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine
Actually the US Warships ran away!
Great news! If we are no longer good at global empire, we’ll give it up. I wish we had decided this at the polls but whatever.
But, but, but Dow is 48k now, this is what we should be talking about 🙂
Where is Pam Bondi when we need one.
Absolute disaster, wonder if Trump bankrupting those multiple companies was due to similar deal making skills.
The Plaza in Atlantic City owned by Trump was built for $240M and sold for $20M. It started as a nice rather small casino ended up a dump. It had a great location just at the end of the AC Expressway.
What a horrible defeat for the US.
No regime change; unless you consider an even more hard line regime that demands concessions from the US, a positive change.
No taking of Iran’s nuclear materials. And Iran demanding the right to continue enriching uranium. Trump saying that’s okay.
Trump demanded that Iran open the fucking strait. Now he is willing to let them control it and collect tolls (he would even be willing to participate in toll collection). Talk about screwing over all our allies in the Persian Gulf region.
All US bases in the region seriously damaged. And all our allies taking hits to their infrastructure.
Meanwhile, the strait is still closed. Iran closed it in response to Israel bombing Lebanon.
The world is reaching the point where shortages of many items are happening because of the closure of the strait. And Iran is still refusing to open it because of US/Israeli violations of the ceasefire. The global economy is going into recession because of this.
just calm down and take a social media break. you’ll feel better.
Your comments suck. You never add anything, you have no reasoned position, it’s a waste of space and a distraction. You randomly interject something like a 13-year old cringelord would say and then slink away until your next little spray of shit.
you’re probably arguing with a bot or at best a committed troll.
Yes but for a well positioned investor, the profits have been amazing and they will continue to be amazing if you position for profit on all the future shortcomings you outlined. Yes, people will suffer but what can we do about it? Nothing but profit.
You sound like Trump.
There’s a minor difference for those who pay just a little attention – MPO doesn’t bomb anyone or make threats and extravagant claims. Do pay attention.
Yes. I am making a lot of money from this shit show. Most of it will go to charity. I would give up all the gains if we could undo the damage that Trump is doing.
What I can’t wrap my head around is how predictable this was and yet it seems they didn’t even consider it a possibility. It’d be comedy if it wasn’t such a serious tragedy.
If your conclusion makes no sense, check your premises.
Trump has spent both his presidencies eliminating everyone involved in military intelligence and planning because they never told him what he wanted to hear. They all told him that attacking Iran was a mistake. So he replaced them with people who would tell him what he wanted to hear.
The same goes for all other government agencies. Get rid of the folks who know what they are doing and replace them with Trump loyalists who only need to praise him and say “yes sir” to get the position.
And yes. It is a serious tragedy.
military intelligence
Contradiction within itself
That’s what they all keep saying are Xi and Putin’s faults, so lucky we don’t have that in democracy-land.
Trump has spent both his presidencies eliminating everyone involved in military intelligence and planning because they never told him what he wanted to hear. They all told him that attacking Iran was a mistake. So he replaced them with people who would tell him what he wanted to hear.
The same goes for all other government agencies. Get rid of the folks who know what they are doing and replace them with Trump loyalists who only need to praise him and say “yes sir” to get the position.
And yes. It is a serious tragedy.
You say that Trump is “screwing over our allies.” My impression was that most of the allies had refused to show up. They wanted to be free riders and be all pious about it as well.
It is high time that Europe looked after its own defense. That will mean, of course, that America will no longer be able to dictate policy to Europe. The Germans may be able to do business with Russia: they need to get rid of all those American occupation forces that are still in Germany eighty years after the end of the war.
Not being occupied by American forces may also mean not necessarily having to adopt depraved American ideas about what it means to be civilized.
It may also mean being able to do something about it when somebody (an American somebody? Biden forecast that they would do it.) blows up your undersea fuel pipelines.
You might also remember the bad precedent that the Americans under General Eisenhower set when they blocked the Anglo-French effort to stop the Egyptians from seizing the Suez Canal.
Trump looks to me like less of a hypocrite than most of your leaders have been. I think that’s good. I know some people have a visceral reaction to any sort of honesty. Most of them probably subscribe to the Education religion.
Yep. Soon we will have no allies left as they will all abandon us.
Trump has spent both his presidencies insulting, bullying and belittling our allies. Trump demands their loyalty to him, no matter what he does.
He did not consult with them before he launched this attack because he knew they would tell him it was a mistake, just like his own military planners told him it was a mistake.
Trump did it anyway and got himself into a no-win mess.
Then he has the gall to “demand” that they now help him.
They have had enough. I don’t blame them if they abandon us.
We in Australia won’t abandon you, because you are all we have. It’s like being a child with a badly alcoholic parent.
We can’t fight China or even Indonesia on our own.
As for what is said from time to time, what matters is what is done. Lots of us in Australia are often sharply critical of the United States. We still house secret and not-so-secret American military installations. We are part of the same now badly decadent European civilization.
You do realize that would mean a lot of countries with their own nukes ?
France already has its own nukes. If they were merged into a European Union force, that would not count as an increase in the number of nuclear-armed powers. In any case, I think the cat was out of the bag when China was allowed to develop nuclear arms. There was no going back after that. I am under the impression that the American leadership of the day connived at the theft of American nuclear secrets by the Soviet Union, in order to effect their strategy of dividing Europe between themselves and Russia, so maybe the cat was let out of the bag a long time ago.
Add the production loss in the Gulf.
Yes. 13 million barrels a day in lost production of oil and refined products in the region. And 20% of global LNG. 30% of global helium. 30% of global fertilizer. 10% of global aluminum. Etc.
These shortages will raise prices and dramatically reduce global economic activity.
Webster’s dictionary indicates that a synonym for delusional is now trump.
stop eating paste.
The key to this from Iran’s point of view is to keep the strait shut, except to those who pay the toll. This is their primary asset at this point, a huge revenue source. As long as Iran keeps control of the strait, time is on their side.
Iran is continuing to strike other middle eastern countries’ infrastructure as long as Israel continues to bomb Lebanon. Bombing the Saudi East-West pipeline increased Iran’s economic advantage.
Trump’s appalling rhetoric has isolated the US and Israel from the rest of the world. So far, Iran has won the war. But the war is not over yet.
What was the old transit rate, like 138 ships per day?
At 2 million a pop, …beep, boop, beep, beep….$276 million per day! holy shit!
That’s what I’m talking about! Can I buy shares in Iran toll booth stock?
So let’s say that prior to the war Iran was exporting about 1.5 million bpd, at about $60 per barrel, which works out to roughly $90 million per day. So now they will make that plus $275 million per day in tolls. So Trump has basically quadrupled Iran’s daily income. I guess that is what uncondidtional surrender looks like, the only question is who did the unconditional surrendering?
> has isolated the US and Israel from the rest of the world
And rightly so. Boycotting everything dispensable from these two barbaric terrorist nations next step until one day perhaps they learn to behave themselves. Won’t happen in my lifetime.
However, good to remember that USIS both only useful idiots for those pulling the strings from the background profiting from maximum chaos on the planet. Remember, population reduction and digital enslavement of survivors – aka Agenda 2030 – is the overall game being played – classical divide and conquer. Get them to bash in their heads as best as possible, we’ll finance both sides, and “build back better” when if suits us. At least that’s what happened in the past.
Very difficult to recognize if you are caught up in the middle with friends & families, infrastructure, means of survival etc. being destroyed.
The message is: “we’re all in the same team” against the 0.001% running the show, and from the results, quite successfully with two madmen currently at the helm until they are finally removed.
We all need a laugh: The photo of the EZ Pass transponder has some good words on it, including “do not eat transponder” though I feel people inclined to do so should be allowed to self-regulate our gene pool to their own satisfaction!
the constant use of slippery stooges like Witkoff and Kushner tell you that these negotiations won’t be going anywhere
You clearly were not thinking of a flushing toilet when you typed “anywhere” but I was when I read it.
Those two idiots got us into this mess in the first place.
Mission accomplished. For Israel.
As I understand, they are still at it so .. maybe not.
Fun Fact: The three stooges were also all Witkoff’s & Kushner’s
Vance is joining.Let us see.
This is how I see things likely playing out. The ceasefire was a scam. USA/Israel were losing and needed a pause. Trump was likely persuaded that had he carried out his stated war crimes for Iran’s destruction, he and his team could end up being tried, convicted and hung in the Hague. Upon conclusion of the war, the democrats, now firmly in power, would gladly hand them over for war crimes.
Netanyahu and his owners control the war. Trump is completely compromised by bribery and Epstein scandals. That’s why he was re-installed as POTUS in 2024. I see all UAE oil and energy being taken out- probably Kuwait also. At the appropriate time when there is less threat from USA special forces and ground troops in the region–Iraq will retake Kuwait. Shias in Bahrain, assisted by intelligence agencies from Russia, China and others will overthrow their monarchy.
I think US bases in Saudi will continue to be bombed, but I don’t think their oil fields and energy infrastructure will be taken out unless Iran’s energy is taken out. The Yemenis will close the Red sea. The world could likely suffer global recession/depression.
Hezbollah will hold on in Lebanon and continue attacks. Israel will continue to destroy Lebanon by bombing and Iran will continue destroying and bombing Israel. In time there is a possibility all the Gulf State monarchies will fall. Iran’s infrastructure will be destroyed but their missiles will remain largely intact. If they hold on, they will be a powerful nation and the World will willingly help them rebuild.
The big question–will Israel go nuclear? That is the major concern.
Can you hang somebody that fat without decapitating them?
by god we can try! 😉
If Israel did use nuclear weapons on Iran, I don’t see how the US could remain its host nation. Israel would become an international pariah. Yet Israel’s economy is unsustainable at current living standards even in peacetime and before the damage from this war. It requires a constant and significant inflow of cash from outside to sustain its built-in trade deficit. Much of that comes from the US. The only alternative host would be India and they have neither the wealth nor the political demographics to be as pliable as the US.
My guess is that things would have to look like Israel’s very existence is in doubt before they would use nukes. Not likely but also not impossible has Israel and its supporters do not have the international political equivalent of emotional intelligence. Often, they just cannot help themselves.
Israelis can go back to their country of origin.
That is the real danger for them, pretty pedestrian.
Perfect response. This is probably very close not only to current reality but likely near-term outcomes. I do not see this war as over.
lol, your expertise! stop drinking the bong water.
U.S. has violated ceasefire agreement, Iran parliamentary speaker says
Ceasefire includes Lebanon, and Israel bombed Lebanon. We are one with Israel, ergo the claim is a fact.
lol, Iran’s own Joe Isuzu.
Re-try Re-Phrase Grok AI with the right question Mish, and you discover its view as:
Why this feels FUBAR to many observers:The original Trump-era “maximum pressure” and recent military actions were sold as preventing Iran from dominating the region, strangling its economy, and stopping nuclear/malign activity. Now, after strikes, casualties, and a fragile ceasefire:
Supporters frame it as pragmatic deal-making: America (as “winner”) gets paid for security, helps reconstruction, and avoids endless conflict. Detractors call it a humiliating reversal that rewards the regime the U.S. just bombed, undermines international norms, and leaves core issues (enrichment, proxies, verification) unresolved while turning a strategic chokepoint into a joint profit center.
The whole Hormuz situation today — partial openings, re-closures, conflicting U.S. messages, and this joint-venture idea dropped amid shaky truce talks — is chaotic and contradictory. Whether it stabilizes into a weird U.S.-Iran toll partnership or blows up remains to be seen. It’s fluid and messy.
F-U-B-A-R until it’s not.
Watch for Market DOWN 1,000 points on tap each day every day for TEN.
Useful quote:
“That stuff gives you brain rot, which is incurable. And it’s infectious. It infects your family and your dog and your house and causes it to rot. It’s not my job to treat brain rot. It’s not my job to clean up the internet. I’m too busy, there is too much of this shit out there. My time on earth is limited, rather than unlimited, and I don’t want to waste whatever time remains on internet bullshit. Don’t go to places that pollute your brain. This is a recommendation as basic as: Don’t drink from the sewer.”
Who says the war is over. As of today it doesn’t look like it
New war tomorrow.
“It ain’t over ’til it’s over”
–Yogi Barra
It increasing seems that this “ceasefire” was a typical Trump charade to buy time. He is already dissembling on the terms of the the agreement stated by Pakistan, while Israel blatantly breaks the agreement in Lebanon.
Trump is sending his clown car of negotiators who he hopes can hornswaggle the Iranian rubes into an agreement on his terms. He is cynically trying to maintain dominance, evidently thinking that the Iranians are a desperate as he is.
No way the Iranians will accept this nonsense. This war is not over.
Great victory for the Ayatollahs! Celebration with goats! Lol. China had its nuts in a vice with oil, Russia has already lost Syria, now a much diminished Iran, everyone is scared of the Israelis who are truly nuts and deadly. Venezuela has cut off oil to Cuba which is teetering, there goes more Russian and Chinese influence. But they shot down a plane! After Alexander defeated the Persian Empire, 400 years of Greek fiefdoms. Good luck with that.
It was never “Trump’s Iran War”. It is “Bibi’s lapdog* Trump’s Iran War”.
*I could use a cruder term instead of “lapdog” here.
A complete disaster for all concerned, especially the poor innocents in Iran killed and the cultural heritage that has been destroyed. All because Trump couldn’t stand up to Israel.
“*I could use a cruder term instead of “lapdog” here.”
Catamite. The word that you may be looking for is “catamite”. Used in a sentence “Trump is Netanyahu’s prison catamite.”
Does that rhyme with witch?
yes.
Lindsey Graham abhors an antisemite
But consoles himself with his catamite.
Use a new vocabulary word in a sentence and it’s yours!
Miss Lindsey Graham is some dudes’ favorite catamite.
So, let me get this straight – the majority of the commenters here (including Mish) were beaching since the beginning of this war that Trump should declare fake victory and everyone moves on and now when he did it the same people are not happy at all and are still beaching this time that the US lost. Some are even calling the welfare prosperity. That’s really funny:)
‘Fake Victory’ has been declared, but the second part, where ‘everyone moves on’ , is not happening.
It appears you need more time to “…get this straight “.
People acting like wind up toys results in them winding themselves up.
Nope. They were saying what a stupid mistake it was for Trump to start the war in the first place.
And they were right.
Trump did not leave
And he keep humiliating himself
“beaching”? What, are you 9 years old? Your mommy will spank you if you say “bitching” ? Grow the fuck up……..
Brave Sir Robin…
When danger reared it’s ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
(“No!”)
Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about
(“I didn’t!”)
And gallantly he chickened out.
This two week extension will cost US plenty. It has to pay for all expensive toys deployed in Gulf at a cost of 2-5 billion dollars a day or more once all beans are counted. Iran has no such large expense. So, who is the winner? The entire war madness of Trump will add a trillion or more to the deficit without any meaningful difference in status quo other than killing a lot of innocent people and destroying economies of many countries.
Trump is dispatching V. P. JD Vance, along with businessman Witkoff and Jared Kushner for Peace Talks. ? Iran has already said they do not trust Donalds business buddies anymore? So why are Kushner and Witkoff being sent yet again? Is this some kind of sick Joke-from Trump ? https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/iran-refuses-peace-talks-trump-173711706.html
Witkoff and Kushner are Israel’s negotiators.
Given their deep betrayal in the last round of negotiations, Witkoff and Kushner will be persona non grata. They can sit with the other kids.
Actually, perfidy is a war crime.
They should be tried and hung.
Watch the actions, not the tweets.
There is no meaningful ceasefire. Ships are not transiting. There’s clearly no agreement on terms of any sort, which means nothing is over, which means any discussion of victory or defeat is truly premature.
Trump’s observation that Iran’s 10 point demand may be the basis of discussions and many other outcomes are a Win for Iran.
There was no military victory at all. The carriers scrammed away from the reach of Iranian missiles. In consequence, there was limited use of stand off weapons because of the distance and short inventory. The Gulf bases were emptied and multi billion USD assets were destroyed. In consequence, there was limited use of air raids. And so on.
Iran defeated the US tactically and strategically, showing the world that the trillion USD military is an expensive paper tiger. Allies and assertive rivals took notice.
Thanks to the 🍊 and the mullahs, perhaps we can trim the defense, I mean, the warring spending and focus on our prosperity and infrastructure and welfare. Enough with world policing!
We have a paper tiger military that has cost trillions and hasn’t won a war in 75 years. Americans should look at China today and hang our heads in shame.
Would have been much better to have decided this at the ballot box and implemented through a well thought out plan. But it was never on the ballot.
I’ll take it anyways.
Naval power would have been effective but US Warships ran away!
We kicked their ass. LFG USA🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
How many of our military facilities are still operational in the ME? Time to grow up.
I give up. How many?
That’s what Trump said. “I give up.”
Yes, we kicked their ass so hard that Trump is proposing a joint venture toll booth with Iran.
get a grip
So we Went from receiving nothing to a potential JV🤔
Praise to Allah….
On a side note Mike ? My handle for a while now is — john
Notice today someone else is using the same one –john ?
Are the Names we use also open for everyone else to use?
You should try John Bigbootay
Is that your surname– El ?
Yes… I come from a long line of Bigbootays.
We all can have some fun with “John” – lol. But we will be nice right?
Unless I force signins it appears so.
Not sure people want sign-ins to comment especially newcommers
I think it’s pretty uniquely great that you simultaneously have an honor system post authorization, and no spam. If I could choose something for libertarians to run, it would be message boards and forums.
And Iran will never accept that
I assume that this was sarcasm, as it apes the posting style of many a mouth-breathing MAGA.
Nope… that guy is a trumphumper.
They say any sufficiently advanced parody is indistinguishable from the real thing.
I guess that proves it. I figured that this was so moronic, it could not possibly be real.
There are millions of these zombies running loose.
There are 2 kinds of folks – those that think Trump sucks. And those that suck trump.
Describe how we kicked their ass so those who cannot see your truths shall have their eyes forced open, please.
Hey, Trump said it, so it must be true – right? /s