Anti-Vaxxers Seriously Distort the Covid-19 Message and Data From Israel

Consider This Tweet

https://twitter.com/jackson_forelli/status/1430955429543153674

Wait mish, doesn’t Israel have a high vax rate? They shouldn’t have many covid patients right?

Believable Stats

Highly Vaccinated Israel Is Seeing A Dramatic Surge In New COVID Cases

Please consider Highly Vaccinated Israel Is Seeing A Dramatic Surge In New COVID Cases. Here’s Why

  1. Immunity from the vaccine dips over time. Israel had fully vaccinated slightly over half its population by March 25.
  2. The delta variant broke through the vaccine’s waning protection.
  3. If you get infected, being vaccinated helps. The rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people over age 60 (178.7 per 100,000) was nine times more than the rate among fully vaccinated people of the same age category, and the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people in the under-60 crowd (3.2 per 100,000) was a little more than double the rate among vaccinated people in that age bracket.
  4. Israel’s high vaccination rate isn’t high enough. The country jumped out ahead of all other countries on vaccines, and 78% of eligible Israelis over 12 years old are vaccinated. But Israel has a young population, with many under the eligible age for vaccination, and about 1.1 million eligible Israelis, largely between the ages of 12 and 20, have declined to take even one dose of the vaccine. That means only 58% of Israel’s total citizenry is fully vaccinated
  5. Booster shots offer more protection — if you are one of the world’s lucky few to get them.

What About Pfizer?

Please note Israel says Pfizer Covid vaccine is just 39% effective as delta spreads

Many Tweeted, almost bragging about low effectiveness of Pfizer. They did not bother to look at the details.

  • Pfizer and BioNTech’s Covid-19 vaccine is just 39% effective in Israel where the delta variant is the dominant strain, according to a new report from the country’s Health Ministry.
  • The two-dose vaccine still works very well in preventing people from getting seriously sick, demonstrating 88% effectiveness against hospitalization and 91% effectiveness against severe illness, according to the Israeli data.

Posts Mislead on Israel Vaccine Data

Also consider Posts Mislead on Israel Vaccine Data.

Misleading posts on social media are now twisting data from Israel to falsely claim the country’s vaccination program is a failure due to the number of breakthrough cases of COVID-19 among the vaccinated. Medical professionals say Israel’s vaccine program is making remarkable progress against the virus.

“The vaccination campaign was hugely effective,” Dr. William A Petri, professor of infectious diseases at the University of Virginia, said of Israel’s efforts. “It’s really extraordinary how well these vaccines work.”

It’s easy enough to find total nonsense or some alleged “expert” somewhere spinning the data.

The Twitter anti-vaxxers do that routinely 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. But they don’t like to be called anti-vaxxers. 

They want to be called freedom fighters or patriots while spreading complete BS every chance they get. 

Vaccine Discrepancies

I do wonder about the Pfizer vaccine itself. It’s 88% effective against hospitalization but that does not imply or say anything about transmission.

I did not locate official numbers, but I believe this Tweet is more accurate “Israel is nearly 100% Pfizer.”

The Israeli outbreak can easily be Pfizer-specific or Pfizer-more-likely than say Moderna.

Low Vaccination Rates vs Covid 

The US data is clear and consistent. Death rates are highly correlated with low vaccination rates. 

The above chart is from my August 21 report Covid Vaccination Rates vs Death Rates Daily and Last 7 Days Update.

https://twitter.com/Mttendoy/status/1431044003596685315

The anti-vaxxers would have you believe Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas, Kentucky, Tennessee, Texas, etc., etc. are all manipulating the data to show more cases. 

Why?

Only the red states manipulate death rates so as to collect more fees from Medicare. The Blue states are not interested in getting more money from the government.

Wow! That quite an amazing revelation.

Alberta Canada Data 

Alberta has the best data anywhere on Covid.

  • Since Jan 1, 2021, 0.2% of people with one dose (5,597/2,847,380) were diagnosed with COVID-19 14 days after the first immunization date
  • Since Jan 1, 2021, 0% of people with two doses (937/2,482,401) were diagnosed with COVID-19 14 days after the second immunization date
  • 94.7% of cases (125,376/132,373) since Jan 1, 2021 were unvaccinated or diagnosed within two weeks from the first dose immunization date
  • 92.1% of hospitalized cases (5,270/5,719) since Jan 1, 2021 were unvaccinated or diagnosed within two weeks from the first dose immunization date
  • 86.9% of COVID-19 deaths (692/796) since Jan 1, 2021 were unvaccinated or diagnosed within two weeks from the first dose immunization date

Not AVSA Compliant

We better ignore that data. It is not AVSA compliant. That is to say it does not have the Anti-Vaxxer Seal of Approval.

Nothing does unless it purports the idea that vaccinations do no good.

Besides, anyone with any degree of common sense knows Alberta is in bed with Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas, Kentucky, Tennessee, Texas, in data manipulation. 

There is no other possible explanation.

Dying For the Cause

Let’s discuss the “Educated Decision” of Anti-Vax Talk Show Host Phil Valentine

“Why in the world would I get the vaccine?” asked Valentine.

He is now dead. Thousands are dead who would be alive today if only they got vaccinated. 

But let’s ignore that too, and focus on some isolated death case attributed to Covid. 

Data is 100% Consistent 

Vaccinations are proven to slow the spread of serious cases. Hospitals are clogged with severe cases of Covid, mosty from unvaccinated, needlessly draining supplies from others in need. ICUs are at capacity also due to people on a fool’s mission against the data.

Someone on Twitter objected to the preceding paragraph and wanted to know on what planet the vaccinations were proven. I replied Earth and asked if he was from Uranus.

The data in Israel, US, UK, and Canada. Is consistent. The data say vaccinations prevent (not stop) serious infections and reduce (not eliminate deaths).

But to hell with that.

By all means, let’s tout the 39% effectiveness and ignore the details.

Let’s also believe stats from India. Hell’s bells, let’s believe any report as long as it supports the view vaccinations are a failure.

That is the consistent drum beat of the anti-vax patriots continually making fools of themselves.

Mish

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JeffD
JeffD
2 years ago
“Former Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Scott Gottlieb, who is a Pfizer board member, noted that “natural immunity” gained from a prior infection needs to be included in discussions about policies and mandates.”
Bam! And there it is. Government is talking about talking about using scientific reason rather than irrational knee-jerk decisions as a policy tool. Mandates wouldn’t be changing weekly if they were actually using science vs emotion to make decisions.
mrchinup
mrchinup
2 years ago
Not sure what all crying is about, Mish? You’re vaxed you have nothing to worry about. LMAO @ how weak Americans have become.  What about all the deaths and injuries with the vax. My friend I took care of for 7 months died 8 days after the vax, you can stick that thing right where the sun doesn’t shine. My wife’s sister just went into the hospital last night with bell’s palsy she was forced to take vax or fired from the hospital she worked for for 9 years. tens of people die every year of something, like auto accidents, let’s ban cars.
You forget the part where people who didn’t get the vax and caught the communist China virus were 13 times less likely to catch the new virus. Mish you’ve got to toughen up a bit or a lot. Don’t worry about us unvaxed we’re doing just fine up here in Dixie national forest in the beautiful state of Utah. Been up here for 3 months, no masks, no virus, no problems.  Get out of St George take a break you’ll feel better. Ah just blame it on Trump you’re good at that. lol
Webej
Webej
2 years ago
Another post with partial data to score points:
  • The southern States are in the middle of an infection wave (seasonal). There are states with low vaccination and yet lower deaths rates, and total deaths (not new deaths) do not prove that certain states have fared far worse on the basis of low vaccine uptake.
  • The data coming from England (PHE) shows higher risk of deaths in hospitalised vaccinees, and is possibly an ADE signal (enhanced disease)
  • India had a huge spike, but also a precipitous decline without mass vaccination. Even if the stats are poor, the decline is real as measured by daily life and hospital circumstances. The decline followed the introduction of ivermectin. Some states did not mandate the use of ivermectin, and their curves demonstrate the point.
  • Your presupposition of fake collusion as being a requirement to uphold the narrative on the part of critics/sceptics is not borne out by those presenting considered data in context, and is not in good faith.
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  Webej
While it varies by day, the UK is reported 1/4-1/2 the daily cases, compared to the US, but only 1/7 as many deaths. It doesn’t seem that they have an elevated death rate.
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Another long term problem of Covid has emerged. Young men with a history of Covid are 6 times more likely to develop ED (Erectile Dysfunction). This is presumably due to the endothelial damage it causes. Mask it up to keep it up? Or grab a jab? 
ED can sometimes be short term, and sometimes long term. As with everything Covid related, how long term of a problem this turns out to be will only be known with time.
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
Another side effect of the vaccine has emerged. This chronological list can be easily verified by searching the net. Read the evolution yourself and decide for yourself if you take the vaccine or not. HOWEVER, not taking a vaccine does not mean you are unprotected. Proper hygiene of the hands and face, mouth-washing has been the main defense mean against viruses like flu and coronaviruses.

20 Apr Times. ”Opinion: No, We Don’t Know if Vaccines Change Your Period”

20 Apr Euronews. ”Experts cool claims about impact of vaccines on menstrual
Experts have poured cold water on claims from anti-vaxxers that COVID-19 vaccines can adversely affect menstrual cycles”

22 Apr Statesman. ”No, the COVID vaccine won’t affect fertility or menstrual cycles politifact”

23 Apr Guardian. ’No data’ linking Covid vaccines to menstrual changes, experts say
Some have reported changes amid vaccine rollout but experts say ’one unusual period is no cause for alarm’

7 July Sky UK. ”COVID-19: More than 13,000 women report changes to periods after having vaccine but experts say fertility not affected. The number of women reporting changes to their menstrual cycle linked to having a COVID vaccine has risen to 13,000. The figure has increased from around 4,000 women last month.”

2 Aug http://nih.GOV ”COVID-19 Vaccines and the Menstrual Cycle
The COVID-19 vaccine may affect menstrual cycles, but more research is needed to understand the exact mechanism and which people are more…”

19 Aug Spectator ”At least 30,304 British women have disclosed changes to their menstrual cycle after getting vaccinated against Covid-19. An editor for The Spectator is one of the most recently affected, and says many more are afraid to come out.”

Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  CristiC
Interesting. Thank you. It sounds like they are commencing a lot of research to better understand this issue. I couldn’t find anything that indicated which vaccine or vaccines were involved, or if all of them were. If it involves British women, that would seem to indicated that Astro-zeneca is involved, and since it seems to be in the US as well, that would indicate at least one other vaccine. Apparently Covid also affects the menstrual cycle. Hopefully it, and the issue I posted about, are short term issues, and will resolve themselves soon.
jiminy
jiminy
2 years ago
Let’s all tune into snake handler radio for our information.  Of course, the bible says we should not get vaccinated per Moses.
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
Large useless post from Mish, this time. All one needs to hear is this:
– Vaccine is only 39% effective in preventing infection; this means all doctors vaccinated or not, MUST BE permanently tested because they are a danger to their patients; same goes for teachers. Discriminating between vaccinated and unvaccinated is ANTI-SCIENCE.
– Vaccine only protects from severe forms the vaccinated. THAT IS ALL. There is no herd immunity. The chief of Oxford vaccine group said it. This also means that immuno-compromised who cannot be vaccinated, are not safe to contact a vaccinated which could be a virus carrier. Testing remains the only method. UNDISCRIMINATE testing.
– Vaccine also has side effects, some deadly. This vaccine is one of the most prone to severe side effects in the recent history of world health.
As such, vaccination remains A CHOICE, not a mandate. Who says otherwise is stupid or dictator.
prumbly
prumbly
2 years ago
It’s quite amusing to read the twisted logic in the Leftist media trying to explain that ‘experts’ always expected a huge surge in Covid cases in vaccinated people in Israel all along – after all, most people there have been vaccinated so of course most of the tens of thousands of new Covid patients will have been vaccinated. After all, no vaccine is 100% effective! Leftists are absolutely wedded to the idea that vaccines are always wonderful, so it’s simply impossible that the vaccines aren’t working, despite what your eyes might tell you.
The Israel Covid daily death rate has now returned to about half of the previous, pre-vaccination peak, and is rising rapidly. But the vaccines are doing a great job, of course!
guidoamm
guidoamm
2 years ago
There is nothing unusual going on today that has not happened in the past. The emergency we are told we are experiencing nowadays is most certainly not such.
Is SARSCov2 real? Yes it is.
Is it the new plague that will wipe out the population of earth thus justifying such heavy handed interference by governments? The evidence does not support that conclusion.
The tell is in what we are not doing rather than in what we are doing in order to, ostensibly, mitigate the propagation of this virus.  
The Lancet, the Boston Medical Journal and other august medical publications are on record stating that science and the peer review process have been thoroughly corrupted pushing some experts to claim that at least half of what is published is unreliable if not down right fraudulent. 
Why is it such a stretch to believe (accept) that this drive to vaccinate the entire population, by coercion if necessary, is, at best, merely a scheme for profit?
If Covid19 is such a threat to humanity, then there are some things we should be doing but, clearly, we are not.
– Cruise ship and war ship data. We had that information very early on in this pandemic. Yet, we are not looking at it.
– We are told masks are essential in hindering the transmission of the virus, yet neither are we mandating the use of masks fitted with a filter nor, indeed, are we even drilling the populace on how to wear a generic mask.
– We have known for decades that the elderly are particularly susceptible to Corona viruses. Yet, during this pandemic, our politicians saw it fit to mandate that Covid19 infected patients should be parked in nursing homes.
– For the same reason as above, why have we never mandated that nursing home staff should be confined to the premises of the nursing home? Even at the cost of doubling or tripling their salary, that would have been far more effective than having these individuals travel from venue to venue because they are “critical” workers? And, lets face it, their salaries are so low that they have to have 2 if not 3 jobs to make a decent living so, in the process, they have become vectors of the disease. And even if they did not have 2 jobs, they were still allowed to return home to their families.
– If Covid19 is such a threat to humanity, why are we playing politics by not recognizing vaccines that are produced by countries our governing elites do not like?
– If the replication, infectivity and mortality rates claimed are accurate, by now, 18 months into this highly contagious and lethal pandemic, the populations of Africa and India that have largely poor rural populations with little to no access to healthcare, should have been decimated. 
– For the same reason as above, why did we not completely shut down travel to and from Africa and India?
Finally, here is the UK’s Office Of National Statistics report on deaths 1990 2020. You will notice that compared to the decade of the 90s, there is nothing unusual going on today.
So, yes, our governing elites, for whatever reason, are making a big deal out this virus. So, considering everything else that is going on from fraudulent banking to the various wars of choice that have impoverished and slaughtered hundreds of millions around the globe, I have no difficulty whatsoever to understand that this Covid19 boondoggle is nothing but another scheme.
guidoamm
guidoamm
2 years ago
Reply to  guidoamm
Not to mention that some politicians claim that emergency measures will be in place until Covid cases detected in the population will reach 0.
That’s it. Just 0 (zero).
No time interval, no time frame, no provisions. Just a vague, all encompassing, catch all and arbitrary 0…. presumably to be interpreted by the “authorities” as we go along. “A la tete du client”, as the French would say.
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
2 years ago
Reply to  guidoamm
Eloquent, makes sense post… Thanks 
ToInfinityandBeyond
ToInfinityandBeyond
2 years ago
Reply to  guidoamm
Eloquent ambiguous drivel.
guidoamm
guidoamm
2 years ago
Is that the extent of your argument?
ToInfinityandBeyond
ToInfinityandBeyond
2 years ago
Reply to  guidoamm

Not even worth arguing against anti-vaxxers. The actual real life evidence in favor of vaccines is overwhelming.  The states with the lowest vaccination rates are now stopping the publication of daily statistics because they are so bad. I stand by previous statements.  

JeffD
JeffD
2 years ago
Reply to  guidoamm
A judge in Chicago just took away parental visitation from a mother until she gets vaccinated. The fact that she is not infected is irrelevant according to the judge. And the kicker? The judge made this decision unilaterally with the ex-husband and his lawyer being blindsided/surprised by the ruling. Land of the free, or home of the cowards?
JeffD
JeffD
2 years ago
Reply to  JeffD
Next court decision? Every parent with a pool needs their children taken away because the risk of a child dying in the pool is at least an order of magnitude higher than Covid. Open your eyes, Mish. These are precedent setting decisions based on mathematically calculated risk.
Dr. Odyssey
Dr. Odyssey
2 years ago
And for a little levity there is always George…
Epistemic Corruption, the Pharmaceutical Industry, and the Body of Medical Science
For the past 25 years, researchers have been studying the effects of industry funding—most often from pharmaceutical companies—on medical science. The focus here is on how the pharmaceutical industry corrupts medical science. 
The Illusion of Evidence-Based Medicine: Exposing the crisis of credibility in clinical research Jon Jureidini & Leemon B. McHenry Wakefield (2020) In the race to find treatments and a vaccine for COVID-19, it’s more essential than ever that society can trust drug companies seeking regulatory approval. The Illusion of Evidence-Based Medicine is the latest in a long line of books that caution us not to hold out much hope.
El_Tedo
El_Tedo
2 years ago
Over a half million of the alleged 600,000 Covid deaths in the US are to people over 65. WELL over half the deaths are to people OVER 75.  You Covid hysterics are LITERALLY INSANE.  You have RUINED life and Western Civilization. link to statista.com
Belairhead
Belairhead
2 years ago
I wonder if any MishTalk readers are nominated?
Zardoz
Zardoz
2 years ago
Jeeeze… I go away for a couple weeks and the place is overrun with kookaboos.
Go back to Facebook, ya kooks!
JeffD
JeffD
2 years ago
“rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people in the under-60 crowd (3.2 per 100,000) was a little more than double the rate among vaccinated people”
The serious cases are predominantly among the old, overweight, and people with pre-existing conditions. So why the emergency vaccinations for everyone? Shouldn’t the vaccinations be aimed at the people at risk?
Cocoa
Cocoa
2 years ago
Once again, unless you vax your dogs,cats and rats and bats there will be some new variant to come by. Covid-19 is a coronavirus, and as such is like a flu or cold. Some flus are worse than others…especially if the Chinese are making Frankenviruses. You cannot get herd immunity EVER since its not a human-bourne disease only. Have we defeated flus and colds?
Hong Kong Flu was worse than Covid. Spanish flu being the gold standard. Preventing Covid infection is the same as flu. You can take a shot, it may or may not be effective depending on variant. Older folks tend to want those.
General health and immunity using vitamin D, losing weight, anti-oxidants, smoking cessation, better diet is a better bet than taking a one hit wonder vaccine. Keep your finger out of your eyes, nose and mouth. Wear a mask in dense populations-the asians have been doing this for eons.
Don’t tell the food industry that, or Pfizer which makes billions on vaccines.

Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Cocoa
There’s already evidence that it is the vaxxed who are helping to create new variants, thus prolonging the pandemic to FOREVER.  Perhaps this was the real goal of the mRNA/DNA shots?  To create a recurring revenue stream of booster shot after booster shot?
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
What evidence? I’d like to see that. 
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
I’ve posted the link below a few times previously.  You should take a break from your prolific posting, kick back and read it.  You might learn something.
mRNA “vaccines” are not true vaccines based on a weakened/dead virus.  Instead, they are built to help the body recognize and neutralize a specific surface configuration of the spike protein.  But true immunity is much more complex than training the body to recognize a single spike configuration.  This is why breakthrough infections are increasing significantly and will continue to grow with each new booster shot.
This is sort of like putting a finger into a dike to plug a hole but when you do so, another one always opens up somewhere else.
Not killing the virus (non-sterilizing immunity), which is what the mRNA shots do, leads to new variants being created in those who were supposedly vaccinated with these shots, thus actually prolonging this scamdemic. 
Read this paper, specifically Section 1, which will explain the issue in much more detail.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
“It’s easy enough to find total nonsense or some alleged “expert” somewhere spinning the data.”
Bloggers also.
Belairhead
Belairhead
2 years ago
Also the New York Times reporting on the on-going Ivermectin lunacy. Hope the doctors involved lose their license for promoting horse de-worming medicines. 
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
Reply to  Belairhead
The real problem here is that the FDA is effectively blocking the use of pharmaceutical grade IVM, designed for human consumption. The solution is for the FDA to stop effectively blocking doctors from prescribing pharmaceutical grade IVM pills, so that people don’t have an incentive to seek an alternate source of the drug.
The FLCCC has proper safe pharma IVM dosing protocol for Covid.
Belairhead
Belairhead
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
This ones for you Ron!
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Belairhead
You know how freaking difficult it is for an MD to lose their license?  There are stories about MD’s that have been reprimanded multiple times for various violations of a states licensing laws and they never lose their licenses.
What is misinformation?  Not agreeing with the consensus?  That isn’t grounds for losing your license.  Although it did cost Galileo and Copernicus a lot back in the day.
Further, EACH state has its own licensing laws and enforcement agencies, so an MD could just move to another state.
Stop listing to the MSM & network news.  It will rot your brain further.
tbergerson
tbergerson
2 years ago
Reply to  Belairhead
Belairhead, before you pollute the world with such hateful ignorant screed, perhaps you should educate yourself.
From the NIH itself:  link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Quotes: 
“Ivermectin proved to be even more of a ‘Wonder drug’ in human health,
improving the nutrition, general health and wellbeing of billions of
people worldwide ever since it was first used to treat Onchocerciasis in
humans in 1988.”
And:  “Ivermectin has continually proved to be astonishingly safe for human use.”
From
the NIH, you know, where Anthony Fauci has his destructive bully
pulpit, from where he has FAILED to develop an actual treatment protocol
for COVID, because he and everyone else is bought off by the Pharma
lobby, which is now the most evil force on earth.
And here is an NIH meta-analysis of the available studies showing an 86% reduction in serious COVID outcomes with Ivermectin:
You seriously get your news from the NYT and NBC news?  You are being lied to 99% of the time watching and reading such nonsense.
While I would worry if FLCCC is using their notoriety to gain financially from their efforts, there are many other reputable doctors who are not in accord with the CDC and their lack of an effective treatment protocol for COVID.  Math+ and other protocols use drugs with very low side effect risk.  While none of these things are a cure, it is a virus after all, and there are no cures for viruses, they almost certainly will not harm you and may help.  Jury is out on that.  
I note, the article you quote makes a big deal about toxicity.  Yeah, pretty much EVERY drug is toxic if used incorrectly.  Most VITAMINS are toxic if you take too much.  Does that mean you shouldnt take vitamins?  You are woefully misinformed.  Depending on liars like NBC News and the NYT will do that to you.
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
Reply to  tbergerson
As you can see, @Belairhead only gets its info from fraud mass media and stupid sites. He/she can’t even read science, let alone recognize it.
The paper you quoted is from 2011. Of course Belairhead thinks it is only a horse drug… so little information he/she has…. just stupid propaganda. Fact is UNESCO praised the effects Ivermectin has on humans. I wonder who the horse is…. sure it must be Belair..
Ivermectin proved to be even more of a ‘Wonder drug’ in human health, improving the nutrition, general health and wellbeing of billions of people worldwide ever since it was first used to treat Onchocerciasis in humans in 1988. It proved ideal in many ways, being highly effective and broad-spectrum, safe, well tolerated and could be easily administered (a single, annual oral dose). It is used to treat a variety of internal nematode infections, including Onchocerciasis, Strongyloidiasis, Ascariasis, cutaneous larva migrans, filariases, Gnathostomiasis and Trichuriasis, as well as for oral treatment of ectoparasitic infections, such as Pediculosis (lice infestation) and scabies (mite infestation).link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov) Ivermectin is the essential mainstay of two global disease elimination campaigns that should soon rid the world of two of its most disfiguring and devastating diseases, Onchocerciasis and Lymphatic filariasis, which blight the lives of billions of the poor and disadvantaged throughout the tropics. It is likely that, throughout the next decade, well over 200 million people will be taking the drug annually or semi-annually, via innovative globally-coordinated Mass Drug Administration (MDA) programmes. Indeed, the discovery, development and deployment of ivermectin, produced by an unprecedented partnership between the Private Sector pharmaceutical multinational Merck & Co. Inc., and the Public Sector Kitasato Institute in Tokyo, aided by an extraordinary coalition of multidisciplinary international partners and disease-affected communities, has been recognized by many experts and observers as one of the greatest medical accomplishments of the 20th century.link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov) In referring to the international efforts to tackle Onchocerciasis in which ivermectin is now the sole control tool, the UNESCO World Science Report concluded, “the progress that has been made in combating the disease represents one of the most triumphant public health campaigns ever waged in the developing world”.
Belairhead
Belairhead
2 years ago
NBC news also reporting on the grifters pushing Ivermectin to the poorly informed:
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
Reply to  Belairhead
There are some 60 positive studies on IVM.
As i have mentioned before, there was a study in Argentina among 1200 health care workers. Over 700 took IVM as prophylaxis, the rest did not. None of the 700 IVM got Covid. 
Apparently, there are now 63 studies.
tbergerson
tbergerson
2 years ago
Reply to  Belairhead
That is the same lame link you posted above.  Poorly informed indeed.  Unproven does not mean ineffective.  One might be tempted to think you were a paid agent of Big Pharma slinging such poorly thought out invective as that frankly evil NBC nonsense around.  Make no mistake, those who seek to prevent possibly effective medicines from being used (with lots of actual field success during a pandemic, and among the safest medicines ever developed, and one of WHO 100 most influential human medicines) are guilty of crimes against humanity.  Are you not ashamed to be spreading such misinformation?
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago

“Why in the world would I get the vaccine?” asked Valentine.

“He is now dead. Thousands are dead who would be alive today if only they got vaccinated.”

The L.A. County Department of Health reported that as of August 17th, 68 Covaxxinated people have died of Covid, in the county. Phil Valentine could have gotten Covaxxinated and died. His odds may have been better if he had gotten Covaxxinated, but if vitamin D and IVM didn’t work for him, maybe the Vaccine wasn’t going to work either.
There are some 600,000+ who have died and they were effectively barred from early intervention therapies by the FDA. Why is that acceptable? There is something terribly wrong with that.
LukeHartwig
LukeHartwig
2 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
lol, nice use of “maybe”.

It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear. And from our shores, we — you know, it could get worse before it gets better. It could maybe go away. We’ll see what happens. Nobody really knows.”
– Ya boi

RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
Reply to  LukeHartwig
Maybe is the correct response. There is no way of knowing either way. But it is a possibility until proven otherwise.
There are two British studies on vitamin D related to Covid patients, which determined that good vitamin D levels would likely keep one out of the hospital. For 68 people in L.A. County, being Covaxxinated didn’t work to keep them alive, just as probably good levels of vitamin D didn’t keep Valentine out of the hospital.
Speaking of nobody really knows, one of those earlier viruses, that had a fairly high death rate, burned out and disappeared, not that long after it got started. Obviously, this one didn’t.
prumbly
prumbly
2 years ago
Reply to  LukeHartwig
President Trump was being advised by Fauci who was busy telling everyone, “This [Covid] will not be a problem for the people of the United States” back in January 2020.
tbergerson
tbergerson
2 years ago
Reply to  LukeHartwig
What about the FDA BARRING early treatment therapies do you not understand?  The FDA, CDC and Fauci KILLED at least half of those who have died.  All so Pfizer and Moderna and related entities, inclouding themselves could get rich.
Their treatment protocol (they do not have one) is exactly backwards. 
The FDA Fauci protocol:  “If you get COVID go home.  If you are about to die, go to the hospital, where me may or may not treat you with something, but not anything Doctors in the field have found efficaceous.”  In other words, Fauci and the FDA are murderers and the medical establishment has utterly failed in its mission to preserve human life.  This is the official narrative.
Actual protocols developed by doctors in the field:  “The moment you get COVID, take a bunch of things, not scientifically proven (which takes years and waiting for true scientific proof of which would be unethical in the midst of a pandemic resulting in widespread fatalities), but with very low risk profiles.”  Not guaranteed to work, but better than doing nothing and results on the ground suggest have worked quite well.  And the compounds at issue are much safer than almost all other FDA approved drugs.  Anyone espousing this approach is banned from google and Youtube and Twitter and Facebook and pilloried by the lunatic news MSM ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, WaPo, NYT, all of whom are thus complicit in the murder of hundreds of thousands of human beings.
ToInfinityandBeyond
ToInfinityandBeyond
2 years ago
You can’t discount the fact that there are postings from foreign agents actively promoting the anti-vaxxer case.
Yooper
Yooper
2 years ago
Yeah, but foreign agents?
England
Israel
UAE
Germany
are the top…

Russia, China, not so much

ToInfinityandBeyond
ToInfinityandBeyond
2 years ago
Reply to  Yooper
And you know this how? Russia, China, Iran and North Korea all have a vested interest in stirring unrest in this country.  They have established entire organizations exactly for that purpose. 
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
“The US data is clear and consistent. Death rates are highly correlated with low vaccination rates.”
They also correlate with the lack of early outpatient intervention. In Indonesia, a philanthropist was making IVM available for low or no cost. The health ministry terminated his ability to do so, declaring that IVM could only be used in clinical trial. After IVM was blocked, the Covid death rate per million rose 5 fold. Delhi and Uttar Pradesh had good success once they started IVM, while another province which instead went with Remdesivir, had poor results.
The U.S. public health agencies have had a vaccine only policy. They have nothing else to compare with, other than unvaccinated. It is not really a fair comparison when other options for treatment were barred from use.
Anon1970
Anon1970
2 years ago
I am glad that Mish followed up on my earlier comment of a few days ago about Israel’s experience with the covid-19 vaccine. It was very disappointing to read about anti-vaxxers twisting the results of Israel’s vaccine program. But i guess that is the price we pay for a relative’s free press.
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
Reply to  Anon1970
Average covid death rate in Israel is 25 vs 60 in the pre-vaccine peak. And the infection rate in the current wave is above the previous peak. Calling Israel a success is simply stupid. Any smart person would call Israel an experiment that raises more questions than provide answers.
Is anyone smart enough to look for excess deaths in Israel in the Apr-Jun period when almost nobody died of Covid? To what cause can we attribute the excess deaths? Is it the vaccine?
RonJ
RonJ
2 years ago
“They want to be called freedom fighters or patriots while spreading complete BS every chance they get.”
Fauci said don’t wear masks because they don’t work. Then he said wear masks. Then he said wear 2 masks, because one mask doesn’t work. Dr. Collins said Covaxxed parents should wear a mask in the home, in front of their uncovaxxed children. Almost immediately, he reversed himself.
The public health agencies are spreading BS, every chance they get.
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
2 years ago
Lol..mutation breeding lab rats congratulating themselves, buoyed up as they are by 3rd shot Mish’s propaganda talk!  Let’s hope, I mean it, that short term benefits are not followed by longterm disaster !  Reminds me of the swine fever virus, dramatically wreaking havock among pigs in Europe in the eighties, a vaxxine was concocted and given to the pigs, the virus though never stopped  circulating  among the pig herd, healthy pigs could no longer be distinguished from sick ones so at one point the EU simply banned the notorious swine fever shots and the situation resolved itself !  I am not implying you guys are pigs, apart from guinea of course, being a rat is bad enough as it is :-).  All kidding aside though, the coming wintermonths are going to give us a definite answer how good(or bad) the poison shots are actually working, if everything seems to be great and if I am still alive I ll have my shot….I promise…
FrankieCarbone
FrankieCarbone
2 years ago
Mish a couple of questions and requests: 
1. Would you please stop using the PEJORATIVE “anti-vaxxer“? I am a scientist and never once accused someone of being “Anti-Maxwell’s Laws, or Anti-Gibbs-Free-Energy”. It’s a politico-social method of bullying and unbecoming of you. 
 
2. Vaccines go through phased trials including long-term studies which no one can possibly say with a straight face can be “accelerated”. In fact, the avg time to market for a vaccine ( I myself have had many of various varieties over my life and will continue to do so even though I am technically “anti-vax”, reconcile that in your lunatic brains some of you) is 7-10 yrs. Given this, why is it “anti-vax” to raise legitimate concerns about a NOVEL vaccine technology that has no long-term controlled trial studies associated with it? Would it not be insane to blindly trust those that continually lie about everything under the sun for political reasons? If anyone is to be insulted with a perjorative, should it not be those people? 
3. Dr. Robert Malone, a prominent RNA researcher, patent holder, and INVENTOR of the mRNA vaccine technology, call this premature release of this vaccine “reckless, potentially dangerous, unscientific, and unknown in it’s long-term outcome” (paraphrasing him, and he emphasized “potentially” because he freely admits that he just does not know, and neither do you). Is he an “anti-vaxxer” too?
4. I refuse to take THIS vaccine Mich. Should I get my yellow star slapped on my shoulder now? Would that make you happy? If I have no control over what agents are injected into my body, either by mandate or crushing coercion then pray tell Mish, please tell me exactly what “freedom and liberty” are defined as?  
5. In the sciences, particularly medicine, a drug is assumed guilty until proven innocent of harm. Do you disagree with this axiom that has been respected by ethical professionals for eons? If not then why? It appears so given that you are resorting to the pejorative attack of “anti-vaxxer” to anyone who disagrees with your new employer’s stance on this.
6. Why are you silent on the 100% diametrically hypocritical polar opposite approach to vaccine trials for a novel technology vs. the use of Ivermectin which has a 40+ year record of being one of the safest WHO Top100 Essential Medicantions of any med on the planet? A good journalist or blogger would pounce on this blatant hypocrisy. 
7. Would you not agree that “follow the science” doesn’t equate to “I heard a person in a position of authority say it on the television? We can talk molecular biology if you want to “follow the science”. I’m up for it.
8 Do you still trust Saint Anthony Fauci, the NIH, and the CDC given all of the flip-flops that have occured and the conflicts of interest, not including perjury to Congress? Would you concede that perhaps regulatory capture is at play here? 
Thank you. Anxiously awaiting your replies. 
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  FrankieCarbone
I’d be happy to address this comment, but since you so clearly meant it for Mish, I think I’ll just let him speak for himself. 
Yooper
Yooper
2 years ago
Reply to  FrankieCarbone
Yes, this… Apologies for being redundant in the posts, but the mRNA tech is well know, and not FDA approved until the emergency use came along. Yes, it helps temporarily for 4-8 months in boosting antibodies, then what? For all those incorrectly associating the mRNA to a real vaccination, are you willing to say that we all should be taking a shot every 8 months for the rest of our lives?!? Think Smallpox and MMR, and a host of other real vaccines – would it be acceptable if you had to get a shot every 8 months? Clearly, anyone here would – must – ask why the narrative is changing wrt the current vaccinations.
If it’s short term, tell us. Don’t act like it’s a panacea to come back later to offer another excuse why we need another.
The researchers who validly proposed this tech for cancer even now, in no way would see this as a general vaccine because of the long term complications that the FDA said no to, oh, 18 months ago.
Again, I had it, turned out well, so why force people in my group to take a vac or be lumped into the Trump/Q people… (and I do like reading fiction, so conspiracy theories are enjoyable).
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  FrankieCarbone
1. Would you please stop using the PEJORATIVE “anti-vaxxer“? I am a scientist and never once accused someone of being “Anti-Maxwell’s Laws, or Anti-Gibbs-Free-Energy”. It’s a politico-social method of bullying and unbecoming of you. 
The comments section on every COVID post made here is filled with anti-vax comments that begin “ I am not an anti-vaxxer”…but then go on to make a laundry list of anti-vax bullshit, 90% of which is demonstrably false. I’m sure you’re way better than that, but you sure seem sensitive. Yellow star? Really?
The truth is that we have a big problem with sick people, and those of us who are impacted by that, which is nearly everybody (and more especially any kind of healthcare provider) would like to see the hospitals emptied out, and we’d like to take the signs off our office doors commanding people to wait in their cars…and just get back to normal.
We also have been dealing for several years with people who ARE antivaxxers, who have been exhibiting the same kind of behavior, just with OTHER vaccines…but using many of the same erroneous arguments…and you get tired os stupid people contributing to rising infection rates form diseases we thought were licked,  and complicating your life for no good reason…..if you work in healthcare. 
2. Vaccines go through phased trials including long-term studies which no one can possibly say with a straight face can be “accelerated”. In fact, the avg time to market for a vaccine ( I myself have had many of various varieties over my life and will continue to do so even though I am technically “anti-vax”, reconcile that in your lunatic brains some of you) is 7-10 yrs. Given this, why is it “anti-vax” to raise legitimate concerns about a NOVEL vaccine technology that has no long-term controlled trial studies associated with it? Would it not be insane to blindly trust those that continually lie about everything under the sun for political reasons? If anyone is to be insulted with a perjorative, should it not be those people? 
3. Dr. Robert Malone, a prominent RNA researcher, patent holder, and INVENTOR of the mRNA vaccine technology, call this premature release of this vaccine “reckless, potentially dangerous, unscientific, and unknown in it’s long-term outcome” (paraphrasing him, and he emphasized “potentially” because he freely admits that he just does not know, and neither do you). Is he an “anti-vaxxer” too?
4. I refuse to take THIS vaccine Mich. Should I get my yellow star slapped on my shoulder now? Would that make you happy? If I have no control over what agents are injected into my body, either by mandate or crushing coercion then pray tell Mish, please tell me exactly what “freedom and liberty” are defined as?  
5. In the sciences, particularly medicine, a drug is assumed guilty until proven innocent of harm. Do you disagree with this axiom that has been respected by ethical professionals for eons? If not then why? It appears so given that you are resorting to the pejorative attack of “anti-vaxxer” to anyone who disagrees with your new employer’s stance on this.
Desperate times call for desperate measures. Yes, the  vaccine was rolled out quickly, but trials were done.
And now, with half the population of the country vaccinated and many other good data points available form places like Israel, we can see that side effects appear to be within an acceptable range.
Long term trials? AFAIK, and I’ve read fairly extensively, there is NO vaccine ever rolled out that had serious side effects that didn’t show up within several months.
Most of the claims about bad side effects form vaccines in general,  are unsubstantiated anyway, like the program in India that tagged Bill Gates for attacks by anitvaxxers. No conclusive proof of harm was ever offered.
Oral polio vaccine killed kids in Africa, but we know why, and we learned a work-around. Dengue fever vaccine killed kids, and now we don’t give that to kids who haven’t been exposed to the disease. 
Vaccines are not treatment, they are a useful way to prevent illness. They are a public health measure that is proven to work better with very high rates of vaccination. Low vaccination rates lower the effectiveness. The idea is to provide safety to great numbers of people. We know there will always be outliers who have side effects, and some deaths are expected. In public health, when lots of people are dying, you have to do what is for the greater good. Without the vaccine many more people would have died already from this disease, and if we could vaccinate everybody, there is very little question that the overall benefit would be much higher than it is now.
You scientist types (I’ll take your word for it) tend to get hung up on hypotheticals.
What if the spike protein accumulates in various organs? What if the vaccine makes the virus mutate and we get worse variants? Ones that cause a problem like Marek’s?  
What if…… you fill in the blank?, I think I’ve heard most of them now.
The answer is that the data shows that none of those things is measurably happening yet. With our hospitals full, we have to vaccinate. We have very little choice.
You can risk your life if you wish, but the truth is that your decision to not get vaccinated has implications far greater than your precious little scientist life, and your precious concerns, brought about by your fine scientific education. People are lining up to get a hospital bed.  
Dr. Robert Malone doesn’t treat sick people. He can afford to be a critic. I think he should spend some time volunteering in a COVID ward…and so should you. Get some needed perspective.
7. Would you not agree that “follow the science” doesn’t equate to “I heard a person in a position of authority say it on the television? We can talk molecular biology if you want to “follow the science”. I’m up for it.
8 Do you still trust Saint Anthony Fauci, the NIH, and the CDC given all of the flip-flops that have occured and the conflicts of interest, not including perjury to Congress? Would you concede that perhaps regulatory capture is at play here? 
Straw man argument, pure and simple. Nobody here is suggesting you blindly trust anybody, but you should hopefully , as a scientist, be able to evaluate decent data and be able to understand the risk v. benefit equation for vaccination. 
It isn’t even a close call. 
 
 
afavorsky
afavorsky
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
FrankieCarbone, EddieT: thank you for the thoughtful posts. I think you stated your cases really well and both deserve respect for doing so. 
I wanted to ask a few questions, especially EddieT. First, here is my background: I got two Pfizer shots. I totally agree with you and Mish that they are effective against covid, at least short term, and I viewed my risks for vaccination side effects as low since I am generally in good health  – while covid itself more of a risk, especially the long version. My wife took same two shots as well. And here is the rub number one – a couple of days after her second shot, she started having episodes of dizziness. Her doctor suspected vertigo, but the specialist said that it wasn’t the case. Blood work ordered was normal. In the end she was given no diagnosis, and prescribed some vitamins. For a few days, she was not comfortable driving due to severity and frequency of the episodes. It took a couple of months for her to get back to normal. Of course, she was assured that the vaccine could not have caused this – although we wonder how do they know. My wife is healthy. We have been together for 15 years, and this is the first case of a mysterious illness with her that I witnessed. Of course I do not regard this as definitely vaccine side effect. The year has been stressful, she may have been tired, etc. Still makes me wonder how many cases like that do not even end up reported. 
A question is, should she a get a booster? 
My next question is again about side effects, connecting with our experience. Have you by any chance watched videos by Chris Martenson
on peak prosperity? He has some interesting discussion there, including on under reported/ignored side effects. I guess one can dismiss this by politics,  like this poor girl link to video.foxnews.com  A bit scary to have such outcome in the mix since there weren’t that many participants to begin with. Hard to know what can you trust though. 
My final question is about the only longer term study of vaccine outcomes by Pfizer (six months I think). Have you seen it? 
The size is unfortunately small, and everything in it can be just noise. There are two deaths from covid in unvaccinated group and one in vaccinated. But overall there were five deaths in vaccinated group and four in unvaccinated. Curiously, heart problem-related deaths and ailments were over-represented in vaccinated group. There are of course people saying that the spike protein itself is likely toxic, and delivers latent damage to vulnerable tissues, heart included. The Pfizer data does not dispel this concern, but rather validates it, I would say (inconclusively, due to small size). If vaccines kept people out of the hospitals and reduced covid hospital deaths – but led to more people dropping dead while exercising than would have died from covid in the first place – would you find such an outcome preferable?  
Such an effect can be hard to notice in fact, as it would be spread over time; even if increased rate of heart problems in population were to  become evident, how does one know this isn’t due to hospitals being overwhelmed with covid?  
Please take no offense, I am just trying to decide on what my own stance on the matter should be. 
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
Reply to  afavorsky
Do your research and dump the pseudo-doctors that said “it is not the vaccine”. The spike proteins that are produced by the vaccine ARE NOT LOCALIZED in the arm.
Look for a doctor that is able to search the scientific proofs.
Oct 30, 2020 — “Observed effects on the central nervous system include neurological symptoms (headache, nausea, dizziness), fatal micro-clot formation and in …
Nov 5, 2020 — Neurological symptoms of COVID-19 ranging from dizziness to microclots could be the result of destabilization of the blood-brain barrier caused …
by TP Buzhdygan · 2020 · Cited by 89 — Observed effects on the central nervous system includes neurological symptoms (headache, nausea, dizziness), fatal microclot formation and…”
afavorsky
afavorsky
2 years ago
Reply to  CristiC
I think that most doctors are perfectly aware of side effects. 
It is just that overrun hospitals horrify them more – this is a certainty they see, while side effects…
Who knows? May be it will be ok. Or may be even if it will be not ok, a cover up effort succeeds? 
CristiC
CristiC
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
“Desperate times call for desperate measures. Yes, the  vaccine was rolled out quickly, but trials were done.
And now, with half the population of the country vaccinated and many other good data points available form places like Israel, we can see that side effects appear to be within an acceptable range.”
Do you know how many kids/teenagers were used as test subjects in the trials by Pfizer?
FDA approved the vaccine for the age group 12-15 based on (2/3 phase of NCT04368728) which included only 1131 participants (and another control group) and only half of them were followed for safety side effects for two months. That is 600 kids. And of course, no cardiac-vascular issues were found in such a small group until later, in Israel.
ACCEPTABLE RANGE?
Based on CDC figures that I analysed a month ago I computed the following stats:
– Anaphylaxis: 2-5 persons / 1 million vaccinated
– Thrombosis: 3 cases / million
– Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS): 9 cases /million
– Myocarditis: 7 cases / milion
– Deaths: 35 cazuri / million vaccinated persons (note: CDC says that not all deaths were proven to be caused by the vaccine…. however ….)
Total is 60 very serious cases / million, so 0.6 per 10000 vaccinated persons. But since I actually believe that there is under-reporting, not over-reporting, to me this vaccine yields 1 life threatening event every 10 000 vaccinated. This is probably the worst vaccine produced in this century.
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  FrankieCarbone
First, while some people are under the impression that these vaccines were all developed from scratch in a matter on months, the truth is that the time spent researching them was much, much longer, if you include the time spent on developing a vaccine for SARS. For five years, from 2004-2009 there was quite a bit of research on vaccines for SARS. One type, a poxvirus vector, caused a serious ADE problem, and when tested on ferrets, all the ferrets died. Another type, using inactivated or attenuated viruses also had some ADE issues. Two other type, Adenovirus, and a DNA vaccine to produce S-proteins, both appeared to be safe and effective. Do these sound familiar? That’s because they are. While those vaccines did not go through Phase 3 trials in 2009 for funding reasons (no one was interested in paying for them, because SARS was no longer a problem), the research was not forgotten. Research did not stop entirely, though. It continued in various places, such as in Israel, and at Baylor, though they were still unable to get a grant to conduct Phase 3 trials. Baylor was still trying to get funding to conduct a phase 3 trial in 2016.
When a need appeared in 2020, research picked up where it left off. Vaccine development in 2020 was based on this long line of research, and while many different people in many parts of the world attempted to develop vaccines for Covid, they almost all focused on the two methods that had been shown in to work against SARS, the modified adenovirus, and a vaccine designed to cause the body to make s-proteins. Thus, to say that development of this vaccine took under a year is an oversimplification, because these vaccines were actually based on a modification of the SARS vaccine that had 16 years of research. Yes, the mRNA technology was a new addition, but it also had a very long research history.
My problem with anti-vaxxers is not the ones that would like to see longer term safety trials before they take it. My problem is the ones that deny that the vaccine are working now. The evidence is clear and compelling. The vaccines do provide excellent protection, and they dramatically reduce the hospitalization rate and death rate. Will there be longer term problems? That remains to be seen, but much remains to be seen. It remains to be seen how soon the immunity wanes on those who have been infected. It remains to be seen whether those who have had Covid will have longer term issue from the resulting vascular damage.  It remains to be seen what further mutations are in store. Speculate all you want about what the future will bring, and that’s fine with me, just don’t deny the truths about the present. I’m also offended by those that hope for the worst. What evil mind would do that? Speculate that things will get worse if you want, but hoping for it is just wrong. I hope that everyone does well, whether they mask or not, or take the vaccine, or take Ivermectin, or they take zinc, quercetin, and Vitamin D, or they do nothing.
As far as flip-flops by the CDC, etc, why is that surprising? The was a new, probably man-made virus. Much was not known, and indeed, much is still not known. While Big Pharma clearly has too much influence (or Remdesivir, which does nothing, would not have been approved), but there are many good people who are trying to do they best they can to make decisions about the best policy, and as information changed, or new information emerged, it was only natural for recommendations to change. Anyone that expected otherwise was unrealistic.
Dean_70
Dean_70
2 years ago
fyi… more information from Israel. This is regarding natural immunity: link to zerohedge.com
Yooper
Yooper
2 years ago
Reply to  Dean_70
I mentioned just this observance below with another, but didn’t have links, this one from U Penn:

“The findings showed, however, that in people with a history of
COVID-19, the T-cell response was already robust after the first vaccine
dose, with no significant increase after the second dose, which may
have implications for potential future booster shots.

“Our findings underscore the fact that we need to look at T
cells, not just antibodies, if we want a complete picture of the vaccine
response for those who have not had COIVD-19 and for those who have
recovered from the disease”

Yooper
Yooper
2 years ago
Reply to  Yooper
Apologies, couldn’t edit the previous post:
“T cells also have antibody-like receptors that enable tight
binding to specific viral structures, but they are whole cells, some of
which—called “killer” T-cells—are capable of directly killing
virus-infected cells they encounter. T cells therefore have long been
regarded as the heavy armor of the immune system.
…in general, natural viral infection is known to be capable of inducing T-cell protection that lasts years and even decades.
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  Yooper
One problem with the t-cells is that after we reach puberty, the thymus begins a process of involution, replacing it’s cells with fat cells. The thymus is where naive t-cells are produced. Once trained, memory t-cells can give a person immunity to a specific virus for 40-50 years. Thus, people in their first 30-40 years of life produce immunity to a wide variety of viruses that lasts into their 70-80’s, but people over 40 are far less able to produce new t-cells. That’s why people who have been healthy their whole life, and never caught anything, suddenly start having a more difficult time with infections as they age. There is research underway to try to rejuvenate the thymus so that we can stay healthy later in life, but it has a long ways to go.
tbergerson
tbergerson
2 years ago
Once again Mish is click-baiting (Paid directly by Pharma/Google?  Not Paid?).  All medical decisions, as well as most other decisions (as an economic policy writer he knows this) require an analysis of benefits as well as costs/risks.    So:
1.  Mish focuses exclusively on benefits and ignores, as another commenter below points out, the risks.  Few people would question the vaccines (well really not vaccines but I won’t use air quotes since they seem to really bother one of the other participants here) efficacy.  In other words there is a benefit.  They pretty much unquestionably reduce the instances and severity of infection by the China Virus.  But there are RISKS.  You do not see any kind of rigorous analysis anywhere what these risks are.  But they appear more pronounced in these early days than for most other vaccines.  FDA has HALTED vaccines with lower risk incidence.  And we have no idea, none, what the longer term effects are of this new vaccine technology, and will not for years.
2.  All of these Vaxxer (this has apparently become a religious debate, not a scientific one, Vaxxers represent the orthodoxy, and the value-loaded term Anti-Vaxxers [informal fallacy of false inclusion] are the apostates, the blasphemers, the heretics ) fail to distinguish cohorts.  People who already have HAD COVID have just as good immunity or BETTER than vaxxed.  Yet the Inquisition of Vaxxers treats them as if they were unvaxxed.  And of course there are YOUNG people.  Who have VERY low incidence of serious illness from COVID.  For them the vaccine benefit/risk calculation tilts under 1 (benefit as numerator, risk as denominator) the younger you are and the cutoff is somewhere in the upper 20s probably, maybe even the lower 30s.  It is either disingenuous or incompetent not to malke these distinctions
Finally, as we are looking at Israel, research coming out from there demonstrating the superiority of natural immunity to vaccination with the not vaccines of unknown future risk.  See:  link to zerohedge.com
If that is the case, and IF there were viable treatments (and despite the consistent swipes at FLCCC and Math+ there are), it would be VASTLY preferable if everyone were simply to GET covid, than to insist on administering these shots of unknow future risk to everyone, and ESPECIALLY to oyung people.  In fact those pushing this for children and young adults are just plain evil
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  tbergerson
What Mish does is make fun of the stupidity of the arguments of the unvaxxed.  And point out their logical fallacies, which are glaringly obvious to anybody who has a brain.
It would be funny if the anti-vaxxrs  weren’t contributing to needless sickness and death.
You have to make data driven decisions, or you’re guilty of magical thinking. Lots of magical thinking going on around here in the comments,
Yooper
Yooper
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
“What Mish does is make fun of the stupidity of the arguments of the unvaxxed.”
I do think there should be a space for those quite bright people who are unvaxxed and the Q-people. I had COVID and recovered without a hospital stay as do 999 people out of 1,000. I know firsthand that the mRNA technology has been researched at UofM for cancer treatments for 10 years, and there are genuine long-term concerns that couldn’t get FDA approval. The vaccine may offer a short-term antibody response to help give your body a one-up, but this is far from a true, proven vaccine by any traditional methods – especially long-term.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  Yooper
Nobody is censoring you. But…..let me address what you just said. 
“I had COVID and recovered without a hospital stay as do 999 people out of 1,000”.
This is a bad argument, because serious illness or death from COVID is what in risk assessment is known a” low probability event that carries potentially catastrophic consequences.” It might never happen but IF you end up on a ventilator it will be the worst day of your life.
For instance, if you’re 30 years old and perfectly healthy you have a kid, you still need life insurance. Your odds of getting a serious disease might be near zero, and your odds of getting hit by a bus while crossing the street might be near zero….but if either one of those things happens, if you suddenly die and leave your kid fatherless (or motherless) then they might suffer extreme poverty as a consequence and it might affect them for the rest of their life.
The other issue here is that you are making an argument that made better sense a year ago than it does now. Check your local hospital. There are people on ventilators that would not have been considered high risk by your metrics. The delta variant is making younger, healthier people sicker, quicker, than the original virus did.
“I know firsthand that the mRNA technology has been researched at UofM for cancer treatments for 10 years, and there are genuine long-term concerns that couldn’t get FDA approval. The vaccine may offer a short-term antibody response to help give your body a one-up, but this is far from a true, proven vaccine by any traditional methods – especially long-term.”
So…..you COULD take the J&J, it isn’t mRNA. It uses attenuated adenovirus DNA. But you probably have rationalized against that one too, for some other fine “reason”
However, my real argument, the one you can’t refute, is that the very real odds…the math….supports taking the mRNA vaccine. Your “999 out of 1000” don’t get sick enough to need treatment is just whistling in the dark.
In my area, COVID demographics have shifted precipitously….the 18-30 y.o. group is WAY bigger than any other group for new infections now, closely followed by the 30-40’s and the 40-50’s. This means that the odds are changing and it’s far more likely now for people who aren’t vaccinated to get really sick. it’s simply a matter of numbers.
As someone who recovered and therefore can be assumed to have some level of immunity, you are somebody who has SOME ground to stand on if you wish to personally take your chances without getting the vax.  Bu that’s the only argument you have that holds water. The other arguments ARE logical fallacies. 
Yooper
Yooper
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
I agree with you, generally, and appreciate the conversation. I guess, yes, in my situation, I wouldn’t get the vaccine supported with the release today that shows those who recover have orders of magnitude better response than those with the vaccine, but also that those who are in my situation react much worse to the vaccine – ie, never had it, there are inconsequential number of “bad reactions”, but those who recover statistically do have more intense side effects. As a health policy, the vaccines should be recommended, but should NOT be a blanket requirement for everyone in all cases. If the goal is to have an immune response, I’m no different than the vaccinated. Those who are running around thinking this whole thing is fake or the regular flu are the problem.
I myself and my family, we still social distance, wear masks, keep healthy, but with the way this mutates, also don’t assume we’re immune to what’s next.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
“This is a bad argument, because serious illness or death from COVID is what in risk assessment is known a” low probability event that carries potentially catastrophic consequences.” It might never happen but IF you end up on a ventilator it will be the worst day of your life.”
———
But the risk of that happening is very low!  You also might get run over crossing the street while fiddling with your cellphone but that apparently doesn’t stop very many people from doing it.
The vast majority of people WILL NOT wind up in the hospital and as has been pointed out here repeatedly, the people who wind up in the hospital tend to be older or overweight or have comorbidities.
If YOU or anyone else is worried enough and want to take a vaccine, then go ahead.  Or lock yourself in your house.  
But don’t impose on me to embrace your fear by trying to make me take a shot that I don’t want or block me from participating in my society via some kind of mandate.
And just to refresh – as I have said multiple times before here – I don’t much care what happens to you or anyone else.  You are responsible for your own life and your own choices.
guidoamm
guidoamm
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Although you may have a choice of vaccine in the USA, in other countries, you are to take what you are given. 
Another problem is that some Western countries do not recognize either the Chinese or Russian vaccines. This is clearly political theatre rather than a concern for the welfare of humanity.
JeffD
JeffD
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
He’s holding back data and cherry picking data that supports his position.  That’s his right though, since his site is to opine on his view of things. Also, he’s not wrong! Vaccination does keep people out of hospitals!
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  tbergerson
The value of the blog to me is in the comments.
Esclaro
Esclaro
2 years ago
Every time Mish makes a post like this, the jackass anti vaxxers come out of the woodwork like cockroaches with their brain dead nonsense. Can we divide the country so these morons can create their own version of hell? I would be in favor of building a wall to close them in so they can suffer and die in ignorance. 
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  Esclaro
Yep. You don’t want to wish bad luck on anybody, but Jesus Christ on a crutch. These morons need to wake up and smell the coffee.
JBbrooks
JBbrooks
2 years ago
Here’s a write up if a guy who has far better analytical skills than Mish or myself (by far) link to market-ticker.org
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  JBbrooks
Oh please. You can’t tell sheep sh*t from bean dip. What a conspiracy theory rabbit hole. 
What happened with Vioxx does not negate the data we now have on the current vaccines. The fact that the FDA is under the corporate capture of Big Pharma doesn’t change the data. We have lots of data. 49% of Americans are now fully vaccinated. To hear you tell it they should all start dropping like flies any minute. But instead they are staying alive while the unvaxed are getting really sick. Get a clue.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
My God, look at the long list of pathetic handwaving arguments. Let me deconstruct.
“I’m really a very rational person and extremely well-informed, not like a sheeple who just does what he/she is told. I question everything and believe nothing. I don’t know too much about math, but I’m scared, and it seems to me like I ought to wait four or five years until I’m real sure that these new-fangled GMO vaccines won’t make me have a stroke or make my children be born with autism…or…..something.
Look, I found some website that shows a bunch of people said the vaccine caused them to have a variety of problems, and so it must be true, because I read it on the inter web. 
And Ivermectin prevents COVID and kills worms at the same time, so I have nothing to worry about.”
JBbrooks
JBbrooks
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
I don’t see any “deconstruction” here. 
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
2 years ago
Reply to  JBbrooks
You see what you want to see. Good luck.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
I see someone who occasionally makes good posts but in general blathers too much.
BDR45
BDR45
2 years ago
I would be happy to take an “old school” vaccine with an inactivated virus, but I am an anti vaxxer when it comes to the Mrna vaccines. Corona viruses have been around at least since the 1960’s….SARs…and governments were not creating an atmosphere of fear about them.  We are never going to rid ourselves of corona viruses, as they are harbored in animal species also. There are good prophylactic and treatment  protocols on the FLCCC website. At 78 I just take very good care of myself and I don’t worry. Do your research, but always keep in mind that statistics can prove just about any case one wants to make. 
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  BDR45
Yes, I agree.  I read sometime back that the US Army was working on a “classic” vaccine like this and expected to release it in early 2022.  But there is no way in hell that I will take any kind of mRNA/DNA ‘vaccine” and they are talking about producing these for the flu and other diseases now also.
guidoamm
guidoamm
2 years ago
Personally, the reason I hesitate to take the vaccine is multifaceted.
– A Corona virus vaccine has eluded us for the past 30 years of pointed research, even at veterinary level. That we suddenly should have been able to produce not one but several ostensibly effective AND safe Corona virus vaccines in a few months gives me pause.
– The fact that the institutions should have gone to great lengths to, at best, obfuscate, if not hide, gain of function research and funding involving Corona virus, whether in Europe or China, gives me pause.
– The uniquely strident insistence of the authorities” that there is no prophylactic therapy to prevent or alleviate Covid19 infections gives me pause.
– The fact that generic masks should be peddled as effective in the mitigation of the spread of an airborne virus gives me pause. Short of mandating the wearing of masks fitted with a filter, for generic masks to even remotely have a chance at working against an airborne virus, government and institutions would have to establish training session at neighborhood level on how to properly wear a mask. Advice on wearing a mask would be shouted out on TV commercials, in schools, in supermarkets, on youtube intermissions and everywhere and anywhere people can be reached one on one or in mass. Yet, we are not doing that and 9 out of 10 people that wear a mask, wear it incorrectly. That gives me pause.
– The fact that some countries should not recognize Covid19 vaccines produced by certain “undesirable” countries gives off the distinct stench of this being a farce. Surely if the health of the people of earth is at stake, it does not matter who produces a vaccine?
– The fact that some officials should claim that the goal is to achieve zero Covid cases and that, in the meantime, extraordinary powers should be granted to government, gives me pause.
– The fact that suddenly, world leaders and officials from sundry institutions, now should all claim in unison that this pandemic gives us a chance to build back better. That gives me pause. And you, Mish, of all the people I follow, is the most qualified to tell us what needs to be rebuilt “better” and why does it need to be “rebuilt” given that most of the problems that afflict us today have been brought about by the same people that today claim we need to rebuild whatever it is they have bunged up in the first place.
There are other things that make me question the entire thing but this should do.
Hence my hesitation in taking the vaccine.
 
BDR45
BDR45
2 years ago
Reply to  guidoamm
The FLCCC website has both prophylactic and treatment protocols as I mentioned in a post. We continue to need people who question the general narrative, like you are doing. Thanks.  
JBbrooks
JBbrooks
2 years ago
Reply to  guidoamm
Good post. 
I have a hard time with the mismanagement of the government on numerous fronts. Makes it hard to not only trust the jab, but the supportive stats they use to promote the jab. 
Mish seems to do a great job in his head of forgetting all the lies and mismanagement he covers to jump both feet into trusting the lover he routinely spurns. 
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  guidoamm
Let me give you some more reasons:
——–
Two Top Virologists’ Frightening Warnings About Covid Injections Ignored by Government and Big Media
by Dr. Joel S. Hirschhorn
August 21, 2021
When two great minds come to similar conclusions about the current global push to vaccinate everyone with the COVID experimental vaccines, we should pay close attention.  Both highly experienced scientists have a totally negative view of the vaccination effort.  Worse than being ineffective, they point to negative health outcomes for the global population.  These two truth-telling acclaimed medical researchers make Fauci look as inept, deceitful and dangerous as he is.
The point made in this article is not only has Fauci pushed the wrong potentially disastrous pandemic solution, he has blocked the right one.
Much of what the two virologists say is very technical in nature.  This article simplifies their controversial messages without losing their essential meanings.  The public needs to understand their warnings that refute all the propaganda pushing vaccines from government and public health agencies as well as big media.
German chief pathologist sounds alarm on fatal vaccine injuries
The director of the Pathological Institute of the University of Heidelberg, Peter Schirmacher, has carried out over forty autopsies on people who had died within two weeks of their vaccination. Schirmacher expressed alarm over his findings.
Published: August 3, 2021, 12:42 pm
The Vaccinated Are Worried and Scientists Don’t Have Answers
By Kristen V Brown and Rebecca Torrence
August 21, 2021
Jackula
Jackula
2 years ago
The main problem as I see it is the messaging has been consistently optimistic and inaccurate. The latest example is Pfizer mRNA vax was sold to us as being 90+% effective against INFECTION when after 6 months its closer to 50% so it is much less effective at stopping the spread of a bug that has R0 of 6 plus. What happens this winter when the hypothetical Zeta variant arrives and the vaccines are 25% effective at reducing hospitalizations or worse yet is enhanced by the narrow spectrum anti-body response produced by the existing mRNA vaccines? 
Belairhead
Belairhead
2 years ago
Great article in TIME about the frauds at AMERICA’S FRONTLINE DOCTORS and their Ivermectin scam (which sadly many folks here seem to take seriously):
valpal029
valpal029
2 years ago
Reply to  Belairhead
100% of my friends and family and colleagues that took ivermectin in first 4 days of symptoms recovered wo having to be admitted to a hospital. Its prescribed by family doctors, filled by pharmacies and covered by insurance. 
tbergerson
tbergerson
2 years ago
Reply to  Belairhead
Time magazine?  Really?  Enough said.
JBbrooks
JBbrooks
2 years ago
Reply to  tbergerson

No joke. Time magazine… My God. 

Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Belairhead
You want some Covid misinformation from a real MD and professor quoted in the NYT?  Try this on! [roflol]
——
As many Americans begin the familiar exercise of questioning and calling off plans, scientists are stressing the continued importance of mask-wearing to reduce transmission and infection.
“If you get infected and breathe virus out, it will get trapped by your mask,” said Dr. John Moore, a professor of microbiology and immunology at Weill Cornell. “These viruses don’t have pairs of scissors that can cut through masks.”
Dean2020
Dean2020
2 years ago
Anti-vaxxers and vaccine apologists share equal blame. The truth lies somewhere between the two and you would need to read medical research publications and understand the findings to state an educated and informed opinion. Blog posts should weigh little in making a decision to be vaxxed or not, including this blog. 
Blog posts like this should be used as entertainment, interesting reading and conversation but that should be where it ends. Mish, nor any of us, should be used as the basis of an fact-based decision.
The biggest problem is that our government has misled us so often that nobody knows when they are working in our best interest. Trust has been lost and they are not improving the situation.
Jackula
Jackula
2 years ago
Reply to  Dean2020
I agree, both sides are trying to turn a complex, nuanced issue into a black or white situation. Way too much of what “maverick” scientists predicted has become fact. Covid travels in aerosols….vaccines won’t give us herd immunty, selection pressure will cause them to escape the vaccine….and I sure as hell they are wrong about ADE.
Blurtman
Blurtman
2 years ago
Continually simplistic analysis makes for mere rhetoric. 
NYC cumulative COVID19 deaths, age 35-44, with underlying illness: 532
NYC cumulative COVID19 deaths, age 35-44, without underlying illness: 18
NYC cumulative COVID19 deaths, age 45-54, with underlying illness: 1429
NYC cumulative COVID19 deaths, age 45-54, without underlying illness: 41
NYC cumulative COVID19 deaths, age 55-64, with underlying illness: 3790
NYC cumulative COVID19 deaths, age 55-64, without underlying illness: 45
See a trend here?
Underlying conditions currently include diabetes, lung disease, cancer, immunodeficiency, heart disease, hypertension, asthma, kidney disease, gastrointestinal/liver disease, and obesity.
Cumulative totals since the start of the COVID-19 outbreak in NYC, which the Health Department defines as the diagnosis of the first confirmed COVID-19 case on February 29, 2020. 
Barpi
Barpi
2 years ago
Data from India is likely more accurate than the CDC, which is a complete guess.   There is no centralized report requirement or system in the US that tracts vaccinated vs. unvaccinated.
If you can find real world observations that vaccination leads to a lower fatality risk that we are open ears.   But you do not even speak about fatality risk which is the outcome metric everyone is actually concerned about.
There is no conclusive scientific data that vaccinated have a lower risk of fatality than the unvaccinated.   There is conclusive data that the fatality risk is statically zero for those under 20 and similar to the flu for those under 50,  risk reward of novel experimental vaccine does not logical factor in until over 50 or in high risk due to a medical condition.
But great job data mining pseudo-facts and spinning tall tails in order to fit your preconceived narrative.
ToInfinityandBeyond
ToInfinityandBeyond
2 years ago
Reply to  Barpi
And you honestly believe that India, with a large rural population, has a more accurate data capture and reporting system than the US?  If you believe that I have a bridge I can sell you.  Also, how do you respond to the statements from US hospitals in the worst affected states that hospital admissions and deaths are to a great extent driven by the unvaccinated – or is that just a conspiracy or perhaps just a coincidence?  
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
“Also, how do you respond to the statements from US hospitals in the worst affected states that hospital admissions and deaths are to a great extent driven by the unvaccinated – or is that just a conspiracy or perhaps just a coincidence?  “
——-
What’s the definition of “unvaxxed”?  Do you know that for the CDC, it is anyone who hasn’t had BOTH base shots AND isn’t at least 2 weeks past the 2nd shot?  2 shots but one week out?  You’re unvaxxed.  One shot?  You’re unvaxxed.  This is not the way unvaxxed are counted anywhere else in the world!  So again, we see the CDC trying to fudge the figures and make the unvaxxed total higher than it should be.
And here is yet another in-depth story on the dysfunction at the CDC
Inside America’s Covid-reporting breakdown
Crashing computers, three-week delays tracking infections, lab results delivered by snail mail: State officials detail a vast failure to identify hotspots quickly enough to prevent outbreaks.
By ERIN BANCO
08/15/2021 07:00 AM EDT
randocalrissian
randocalrissian
2 years ago
Reply to  Barpi
You believe the CDC makes pure guesses with issues of national health. Bye, Felicia.
Yooper
Yooper
2 years ago
I wouldn’t think it unreasonable to ask why the CDC is intentionally hiding/ignoring SARS2 infections among the vaccinated unless they are trying to reinforce a policy position rather than letting the data prove their case.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Barpi
The CDC is totally screwed up.  Read this story and weep.
———
How CDC data problems put the U.S. behind on the delta variant
Critics say the CDC’s failure to share real-time data led to overly rosy assessments of vaccine effectiveness — and complacency on the part of many Americans
August 19, 2021 at 1:24 p.m. EDT
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Barpi
And another one:
——-
Holes in reporting of breakthrough Covid cases hamper CDC response
The agency originally tried to track all infections in vaccinated people, from mild to severe. But in May it decided to focus on the most severe cases.
In Louisiana, where cases are still surging, health officials had counted 14,650 breakthrough infections as of last week.  
By ERIN BANCO
08/25/2021 04:30 AM EDT
chillyphilly
chillyphilly
2 years ago
I enjoy your financial analysis. Your “anti-vax” rhetoric is overboard. Just for the record, I am not extreme one way or the other, but extremist’s views (whether on this site or another) really do a disservice to facts. On one side: “I trust science,” and on the other: “vaccines are here to kill is all.” Both sides are, quite frankly, nuts, and mingle truth with their own distorted views.
You do well with financials…stick with that.
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  chillyphilly
It is certainly true that Covid affects, and has affected, the world economy, probably more than any other issue for the last 18 month. Nevertheless, there are plenty of other articles on Mish’s site. If you do not want to read the Covid related articles, why do you click on them?
JeffD
JeffD
2 years ago
Reply to  chillyphilly
Nothing wrong with trusting science as long as you actually use it to make decisions.
Hansa Junchun
Hansa Junchun
2 years ago
Mish, hate to say this, but I’m not vaxed against Covid — and neither are you or anyone else on earth. Oh, you may be MEDICATED against the symptoms, and the medicine is inhibiting death, which can be considered a good thing. But a vaccine, one that tells the human body to find and disrupt the invading virus? No. None of these do that. Its been known since they were rolled out. Those injected continue to harbor the virus, incubate it, and expel it to others. It may well be that the injected (“vaxed”) are the breeding engines of the Delta variant and all future variants. That is speculation at this point.
Now, you may argue this is inconsequential since lives are being saved.
But one thing you cannot argue is the honesty and trustfulness of Pfizer and the other corporations. Following (FDA-approved) disasters like Vioxx and Rezulin, where thousands suffered injury and hundreds of deaths, the courts proved that Pfizer and others priced in death and injury into medication development. They ran spreadsheets detailing R&D, trial testing, approval process, marketing, damage control, FDA withdrawal, and finally injury settlements — and they found that it was still profitable to move forward on medications they knew would kill and injure people. They would still make a profit. I’m sure you remember the evening news pieces about these horrific scandals. It was still a time when the MSM could run some news at night. 
And now they have no liability. They are scott-free. And Pfizer willfully and knowingly tampered with their clinical trial, removing the control group altogether. The process is as corrupted as ever. But this time, they have a get out of jail free card courtesy of the political class. Lives saved now may be affected later on. We just don’t know. Neither does Pfizer et al. And that’s a problem.
Knowing all this, I don’t trust them. Or their latest products. I prefer to wait and see what happens to the guinea-pigs. I’m the control group here, since they couldn’t do it right.
The question is: why do you trust them?
 
tbergerson
tbergerson
2 years ago
Reply to  Hansa Junchun
Thank you for stating all of this so very clearly.  Big Pharma is both a source of great good but also a source of great evil.  Their incentive structure guarantees it.  They make the most money from things that do not cure but that help, that need to be bought every month, forever.  They make much less from cures, because they are buy once and done.  Munger:  Show me the incentives and I will show you the outcome.  And in the current case, I fear the evil goes beyond that to inhibiting, and forcing others to inhibit the testing and use of other treatments which would have saved hundreds of thousands or millions of lives.
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  tbergerson
“Munger:  Show me the incentives and I will show you the outcome.”
First rule in the sales game!
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Hansa Junchun
They are not scot-free legally any longer after the FDA approval.  Just make sure that you take the new NAMED version and not the old version from pre-approval.  I look forward to lots of ambulance chasers and lots of lawsuits against Pfizer moving forward.
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
There is a new study out from Los Angeles in the last few days. I haven’t had a chance to read it, but I understand it also showed the vaccines to be very highly effective:
valpal029
valpal029
2 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
Of course they do. What government agency ever admitted to being wrong?
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
2 years ago
Reply to  valpal029
Those whose names are on the paper, aren’t a “government agency.”
Jojo
Jojo
2 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
It’s a BS study that leaves numerous questions unanswered.  I referenced this study in a reply to RonJ a few threads back.
You think it is impressive to be fully vaxxed and yet still get Covid and have to suffer through it?  Fully vaxxed that tested positive was 1/3 of the unvaxxed total.  350 fully vaxxed wound up in the hospital.  55 went to ICU and 24 died.  I don’t believe this is what people bargained for when they signed up to get vaxxed.
You will of course retort that w/o the vaccine more would have would up in the hospital or died.  But you can’t prove that.  However, it is a useful talking point which is harped on by the MSM reporters daily.
Carl_R
Carl_R
2 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Vaccines do not completely eliminate the risk of hospitalizations or death, yet, clearly the population of people who have been vaccinated is more at risk than the population of the unvaccinated, yet they have far less hospitalization, and far less death.

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