Hundreds of Thousands in Vaccine Experiment
Despite the obvious risks, China Injects Hundreds of Thousands With Experimental Covid-19 Vaccines
China National Biotec Group Co., a subsidiary of state-owned Sinopharm, has given two experimental vaccine candidates to hundreds of thousands of people under an emergency-use condition approved by Beijing in July, the company said this week. Separately, Chinese drugmaker Sinovac Biotech Ltd. said it has inoculated around 3,000 of its employees and their family members, including the firm’s chief executive, with its experimental coronavirus vaccine.
The three vaccine candidates are still undergoing Phase 3 clinical trials, which involve testing a vaccine’s safety and effectiveness on thousands of people.
Liu Peicheng, a spokesman for Sinovac, which said it has injected 3,000 employees and their family members, said the company’s recent vaccinations were purely voluntary and that it had disclosed to recipients the potential risks of taking the vaccine before the completion of clinical trials.
Trump wanted an approved vaccine before the election. If there is one, it will be in China
Mish
Typical, author goes after President Trump instead of amplifying immorality of chinese communist party – they falsify every number, show no remorse for infecting the world and then desperately push forward a very, dangerous, untested (probably completely ineffective) vaccine. partisanship is only attribute of cnbc/nbc-type journalists.
Totalitarian regime. Advantages and disadvantages. They can get stuff done faster, they can also screw up. Regardless of the results it’s clear the people are Guinea pigs
Are you insinuating about tRump’s america?
Racing to a vaccine will end up badly for those seeking to finish first.
Lessons from the past:
Gerald Ford Rushed Out a Vaccine. It Was a Fiasco.
Trump should keep that in mind as he pushes for a coronavirus shot.
Mr. Perlstein is the author of “Reaganland: America’s Right Turn, 1976-1980.”
Sept. 2, 2020
But, but, but, there is no Coronavirus in China! They beat it in February, March at the latest. Did I fall for fake news again?
Like that “Party on, Gart” photo from Wuhan a few weeks back with 3k people mingling all together, no masks in sight. See,s like they don’t need no stinkin’ vaccine!
hows that HIV vaccine coming along?
HIV is very difficult to make a vaccine for. Coronavirus is one of the easier things out there.
SinoVac’s CEO, CEO’s wife and parents, and 90% of its employees and families, are inoculated. This shows their confidence in the CoronaVac. I’m wondering if Moderna’s CEO, employees, and their families are willing to do the same with its Vax. I’d also like to see FDA’s higher level management officials do the same before they approve a Vax before November election.
I don’t know about their confidence in the Covid vaccine. More like “do you want to keep your job and enhance your promotion opportunities? Then pull up your shirt sleeve.”. This is how life inmost companies works.
This appears to be great news. You gotta be impressed with a lot of the techie response to Covid 19 around the world. Congratulations to these Chinese outfits for risking taking one for the team.
Sinavac articles: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/sinovac-reports-preliminary-phase-ii-164800672.html
and
Apparently, 3000 is 90% of their employees and families. It may be that only 2000 have done the vaccine, though.
We could never do that here. First order of business by the doctors should be do no harm. Also written about is the Chinese vaccine is based on the common cold and there are questions about its effectiveness. Russian vaccine based on similar technology and it appears Russia faked their trial data according to a Bloomberg article
Side note on why the u.s. vaccine can’t or shouldn’t be approved before year end. Fauci gave a great rationale. Based on the start of the phase 3 trial it takes about 40+ days for antibodies to develop which based on Fauci’s timeline put it end of November/December at the the earliest
One of the most troubling things about Trump is his contempt for experts and consensus. If he can trot out one doctor who believes in demon sperm, that equals the consensus of actual experts. The consensus opinion of experts isn’t necessarily correct, sure. But that’s the way to bet.
I wish people would not get so exited about “several studies” that seem to say what you’d like them to say. In stead, listen for a consensus among most experts in the field. It isn’t a sure thing, but it’s the best bet.
“listen for a consensus among most experts in the field. It isn’t a sure thing, but it’s the best bet.”
The best bet is not listening to some “experts.” A non-newspeak word for “expert” is five year planner……
Instead, the best bet is lots of different people free to try lots of different things. Then free to copy and further extend, again in all manners of different directions, those approaches which appear to hold the most promise.
The Chinese shooting up CEOs with something or other, Trump swilling bleach, “experts” doing nothing for a few years…… All of which serve to generate learnings, the results of which can then, as they become apparent, be used as linchpins for further experimentation. Etc., etc.
IOW, just get out of the way and let it rip. As opposed to anointing some privileged mediocrities to “expert” status a priori, despite the who thing being something noone knows anything about. And the using these “expert”, arbitrary opinions to put up roadblocks against alternative approaches.
“his contempt for experts and consensus”
I find this to be one of the few good things about Trump.
There are “experts” for any number of contradictory opinions on many issues, so appeal to authority is not just a logical error (it is) but also impossible to practice without appealing to one’s own whims on the side.
“Consensus”? Establishment experts have later proved to have been wrong on issue after issue for as long as there have been establishments and experts.
China is well known as a place where you can perform quick clinical studies accessing a large pool patients. But nobody trusts the data.
How Orwellian, “…company’s recent vaccinations were purely voluntary…” But maybe CEO’s should put their lives on the line to use their products before selling them to the public as one last quality check.
There’s a term for this (or was) in the tech industry – it’s called “eating your own dog food”.
Something is missing with this virus. The data just doesn’t add up. My guess is most people get it and never have enough symptoms to even know they have it or certain strains have mutated to common cold level. Without the information though we can only speculate.
A vaccine is not going to change much at this point. The damage has been done and vaccinating people will offer security but can’t magically rebuild the destroyed parts of the economy. I think a viable vaccine will mark the top of this credit cycle. After the vaccine question is answered real questions will start being ask. The Fed hates questions.
There are four things happening, all positive:
I completely agree with the first point. Although the data on cross reactivity is still thin, past experimentation has shown similar results.
The mask I am not sold on. Sweden hasn’t mandated mask yet their numbers are falling even as the rest of Europe is rising. The other Nordic’s have also avoided a mask mandate.
I personally think mask my do the opposite of what the desired as the new wears off. People will put on a mask and get in situations where they lean on the mask to protect them more than a single piece of fabric can. Also people touch their face very very often with a mask on. I am not saying perfect mask use is not a great idea people are just terrible at maintaining diligence as time wears on.
Like I said though something is missing. The data doesn’t add up considering the R0 of this virus is very high. We should of all come into contact with this thing by now. Something is not right.
“When masks are worn by all, asymptomatic cases rise from 30% to as high as 90%”
Could you reference a randomized trial that shows this, or even any empirical study that supports this claim?
Off the top of my head, the strongest evidence of this was a comparison of the Diamond Princess to the Argentine cruise ship. Most of the cases on the Diamond Princess were symptomatic, and many were severe, and fatal. On the Argentine Cruise ship, they issued masks to everyone immediately. Many people were still infected, but 90% of the cases were asymptomatic. I’ll look for more data tomorrow.
“puts them outside the cell for later assembly”
No. Various proteins are created but assembly takes place inside the cell cytoplasm. There is cross-immunity, and even some natural T-Cell reactivity to pathogens, but not because virion proteins float around outside the cell membrane.
“our body stops making T-Cells at 30-40, and they last about 40 years”
No. We’d all be goners at 80 if this were literally true. The T-Cells actually self-destruct after an infection. It is true that the APC (antigen presenting cells) weaken markedly in the aged, which makes it hard to “train” T-Cells. Also, T-Cell reactivity weakens with age. There are many more ways in which T-Cells and immunity weaken with age, including weak metabolism in the CD4 cells. Your observation is true, but the mechanics are not accurate as described.
As I understand it, T-cells are made in the Thymus, and it begins to involute and replace cells with fat cells after puberty. There is evidence that those with a lifetime of physical activity have resistance to the process, and retain a healthier thymus. Studies in rats have shown that Melatonin encourages regrowth of the Thymus, and experiments are being done with Human Growth Hormone that also show promise. Nevertheless, immunosenescence becomes a problem as we age over 70-80.
The economy was destroyed by loosy monetary policy, the pandemic was just an accident waiting to happen.
The FED hates to answer questions, but have no fear: noone is even floating the logically obvious questions.
Yes. The numbers. Modelers have been talking about immunological “dark matter” since April, because the exponential phase of the virus levels off much sooner than simplistic models (such as Ian Ferguson of Imperial College Gates funded fame) predict, as though 80% of the population was not present. That is because (1) existing or cross immunity (2) variables for communicability and susceptibility are not taken into account. Some epidemiologists come up with 10-20% exposure as thresholds to transmission suppression (but they get less media and political exposure).
The epidemic is as good as over in most jurisdictions. Everywhere the mortality shows the same Gompertz curve. The most important variable to explain the differences in amplitude between one region and another (going by excess mortality, that is higher than expected seasonal mortality) turns out to be how much excess or deficit flu/pneumonia mortality occurred before the epidemic, in effect the amount of “dead wood” tinder stored up for the next “wave”.
However the people perpetuating the lock-downs are all pretending that their measures “control” transmission (no evidence for any correlation) and are still operating under the assumption that the virus would flare up immediately and fatefully among the unexposed, when in fact it has acted identically to all other virus waves. They will hold on to this evidence free narrative until everybody is forced to get a vaccine, or, perhaps, Nov 3.
“immunosenescence becomes a problem as we age over 70-80”
Yes. True. But it is more complicated, and you’re still making T-cells late in life. The thymus produces undifferentiated T-Cells which change when they are marshalled.
Thanks for the comments on T-cell immunity. I always am trying to learn, and I guess it’s back to studying for me.
As for the data on masks and case severity, one reason for the lack of actual lab studies is the ethical considerations. They can’t create a pure test for obvious reasons, so they are limited to observational data, plus the case study on hamsters. I personally think it may be a part of the explanation of why, even as cases rise, deaths are not following.