Beautiful Wall
Trump says it will be a “beautiful wall”, much prettier than barbed wire.
My big concern is government property seizures to build the wall.
Trapped On Wrong Side
Imagine being trapped on the wrong side of the wall.
Though the Loops’ home is on US territory, it is located on the other side of the country’s border fence. The family was essentially locked out of its own country when the fence was built a decade ago. …
By the time the fire engine arrived there was nothing to save. But it was hardly the firefighters’ fault: An 18-foot border fence had blocked their way.
We all stood in the yard, listening to the cries of farm animals burning alive.
This is what’s left.
They cannot get insurance to build, because they are on the wrong side of the wall.
That’s just one post. There are dozens of others.
Split Right Down the Middle
Please consider Trump’s border wall threatens to end Texas family’s 250 years of ranching on Rio Grande.
The most recent government letter arrived in an envelope marked “Urgent: Action Required,” so Fred Cavazos asked his family to meet at their usual gathering spot on the Rio Grande. He and three of his relatives crowded around an outdoor table as Fred, 69, opened the envelope and unfolded a large map in front of them. It showed a satellite image of the family’s land, 77 rural acres on the U.S. border where Fred had lived and worked all his life, but he had never seen the property rendered like this.
“Border Infrastructure Project,” the map read, and across its center was a red line that cut through the Cavazos family barn, through their rental house, and through a field where they grazed a small herd of longhorn cattle.
“This is where they want to put the wall,” Fred said, tracing his finger along the line. “They want to divide the property in half and cut us off from the river.”
“We’d lose the renters,” his sister said. “We’d lose the cattle without access to the river.” All of it,” Fred said. “Who wants to live on the other side of that wall? If this goes through, our property’s useless.”
Beautiful!
Let’s take ranchers’ land and cut off access to water. No problem, it will be a beautiful wall.
Forget the Funding, Trump Needs the Land
The Hill reports Forget funding the wall, Trump needs the land first.
President Trump threatened to shutdown the government over funding for his border wall proposal. He thundered, “Build that wall…
Only about one-third of the land the wall would sit on is owned by the federal government or by Native American tribes. States and private property owners, especially along the Texas-Mexico border, own the rest.
Trump would have to engineer a monumental settlement with thousands of landowners who control thousands of acres of land along the border. Otherwise, the administration will have to face hundreds, if not thousands, of lengthy eminent domain disputes before anything is built across approximately 2,000 miles of the international border. Beyond the turf wars, the wall is sure to raise considerable litigation over environmental impacts.
If Trump can overcome the existing land obstructions, then his wall may rival the nation’s largest civil and military land acquisition projects in decades.
I Am Confused
OK, the wall will be beautiful, I get that. However, I might think otherwise if the government seized my land to build it.
It appears we have under-reported news of perfect security.
But if we have perfect security already, do we need a wall? Sorry, just asking.
No Need for Wall
https://twitter.com/WeezieBenobi/status/1076125222024155136
Republicans had 8 years of Bush and 2 years of Trump to pass employer verification, to tighten EIC rules, to limit benefits, etc. etc etc.
Trump Vows “Very Long Government Shutdown”
Today Trump vows ‘Very Long’ Shutdown in border wall standoff.
Wall Defeated By Ladders
It’s highly likely the billion dollar wall will be defeated by cheap ladders.
F the Wall
The irony in this madness is Trump brags that we have under-reported news of perfect security.
It’s all too easy to sit back and endorse the wall as long as it’s someone else’s land, someone else’s ranch cut in half, someone else’s cattle that have no access to water, and someone else’s house that gets burned down with no insurance.
Since this is how they are going to go about things, F the wall!
Mike “Mish” Shedlock
“Better not be trapped on the other side.”
I admit to being rather unusual but, honestly, I think I’d prefer living in no man’s land. If only they’d let me declare independence, too.
There was something I read suggesting that $16 billion a year of welfare payments went illegally to illegals, There are Americans who have given up looking for work and who have been displaced by illegals, Then you have the money that is exported to Central America rather than spent in USA. It would be good if accurate data could be collected as there are clearly economic and social costs, even if the politicians and bureaucrats appear to prefer to look the other way.
As far as the policy making side, Not only do special interest groups get in the way but also the apparent lack of effective analysis and a debate as to whether for example (the asylum system is fit for purpose, the merits of improved physical border security and or E-Verify.
I don’t get why people care about immigrant labor. Are they competing with all of you for jobs picking grapes or what? Immigration is a huge boon for our economy. This whole thing seems stupid, like a solution in search of a problem. What problem?
Illegal labor also works in the trades and help drive down wages in those jobs.
What if we tweaked the tax code and made labor migration among our citizens in the cities to the countryside a viable and attractive option.
That doesn’t make sense, because the wealth is concentrated in the cities. No Americans living in urban or even suburban settings wants to move out to the sticks and pick grapes. Again, not the real world you’re talking about.
Many immigrants work hard, and contribute to the economy. Others just add a burden to social services. Still others are criminals of various types. If you had control of the border, you would still allow immigration, but you would have some control over who you allowed, with a preference to people with skills, or education, and with no criminal record. You would still get some good, and some bad, but hopefully you could do better than just being random, as we are now.
The criminal thing is vastly overhyped and overstated, and so is the burden to social services thing. A quick visit to Snopes will clear that up for you. Illegal immigrants pay taxes, yet are denied access to social services except for public school for their kids. Again, false claims to prop up a fictional premise.
What problem? You asked. Is Canada open border? Is Mexico open border?
I think the problem is people are tired of hearing weird languages spoken every time they go to Walmart and Subway.
Well…. every time you drive on Chicago freeways in your car, you’re driving over municipally seized land. Every mile.
There are no ideal solutions. Is the answer more tear gas? Is the answer training border patrols to shoot to kill? A wall is far more humane than most alternatives.
Look up E-Verify.
As an employer, I can tell you how the system has worked the last thirty years. Twice I have hired illegals by mistake. In one case, I was notified by SSA that the social security number and name didn’t match. When? 6 months after the filing of my annual return, or about 17 months after I hired the person (who I immediately terminated, but who just got another job).
In the second case, I was notified about 2-3 years after the person was hired, not by the government, but by the real person who owned that name and social security number. She wrote “please tell the IRS that I never worked for you. I live in El Paso, and they are trying to make me pay back taxes on the income you reported in my name.” I was shocked, and appalled. Of course I terminated the person, and also reported them to the IRS and immigration, and gave them her address. Three years later I bought a competitor, and guess who worked there, and who was still using the name of the person in El Paso? Oh, and she still lived at the same address.
Newer systems may work better, but if the government employees don’t care, it won’t matter. E Verify would have helped with the first situation, but not the latter.
It’s a manufactured crisis. Just talking about a “solution” is b.s. The wall is a non-solution to a fictional problem.
It’s a truism to state that if you can’t control the border, you can’t have an immigration policy. We don’t control the border, so there is no reason to talk about anything else related to immigration policy, such as DACA, amnesty, etc. In time illegal immigration will stop of it’s own accord, once the standard of living equalizes between the US and Central America.
This is a pathetic argument. One tragedy has NOTHING to do with the need for and issues of building a Wall. The fact that you choose to attempt to conflate the two is both dishonest and frankly embarassing
F Mish. There are consequences to every decision. The overall impact of a secure wall is less consequential than not having a wall. It is absolute ignorance to say 18′ ladders are going to have any meaningful impact on the wall.
Ladders to Get Over Trump’s Wall
We saw some folks are raising money for a border wall to keep out our migrant siblings and fellow human beings, who are fleeing violence and persecution and whose tragically-underpaid labor is essential to the U.S. economy. Seems like a bad idea on countless levels for everyone involved. Maybe we should focus on human rights and creating a community that reflects our supposed values.
And even though at a rate of $1.7 million daily, it would take their fund about 35 years to raise the $21.7 billion that Trump’s own Dept. of Homeland Security says would be needed to build said wall, we wanna make sure ladders are ready to send over to our undocumented friends and help them.
If this seems ludicrous, we welcome you to the coalition of reasonable adults.
….
Ladders are okay for males crossing the border in single file. For families or hordes crossing the border or trying to bring their life’s belongings with them, including infant babies, ladders won’t work very well.
Thanks to St Funogas for excellent comments!!
Current illegals actually fly in or arrive on “temporary” visas then overextend their stay. Wall cannot fix that big problem.
Please explain how 22 million (est.) illegals got into this country. Source?
There are some illegal immigrants in USA that came on tourist visas and work visas and over-stayed after their visa expired.
This is probably in the hundreds of thousands range.
However this is a much smaller group than the tens of millions who have come crossing the US-Mexico border.
Those from Visa Waiver countries almost never over-stay longer than the 90 days they are allowed since Visa Waiver’s are given only to developed, well-educated and rich or OK countries.
To fix the overstay problem USA needs to build exit tracking system so that if a person with a visa or from a visa-waiver country does not leave the USA before his/her visa expires or stays longer that the 90 days allowed by Visa Waiver they will be immediately put into a database that Police check and all other authorities check when encountering people to make over-staying not worth it.
Also once there is a wall on the US-Mexico border some parts of Border Patrol and ICE can concentrate on tracking visa overstays
instead of concentrating on illegal immigrants crossing the border and gang members and convicted criminals who were earlier deported returning.
I spent ten years working with illegals so maybe I can shed a little light here. Mish totally hit the nail on the head.
Imagine if you were in a POW camp in WW II. There is absolutely no penalty for trying to escape. If you get caught, they bring you back, put you back in your barracks, and that’s it. Since there is no penalty for escaping, you’d have to be pretty screwed up in the head to just sit there instead of trying to escape. It’s the same with illegals, except instead of trying to escape, they are trying to get in. There is no penalty to speak of. You get caught, you get deported so you can try again. So a wall is totally useless. As long as there are jobs and welfare here, they are going to keep coming. The reward is far greater than the possible penalty. So don’t blame the illegals.
Don’t blame the employers either. They need workers, there is little risk of penalty, so again, the reward far outweighs the risk. Why is there so little risk? Because there’s not a single SOB in Washington who wants to fix the “problem”. It has a very cheap, easy fix, yet nobody in government wants to implement it. Republicans love illegals because they are good for business. Democrats love illegals because they are great for the welfare programs and their children are future Democrat voters. Both parties love illegals because illegals pay taxes and they pay into social security. And they never draw that social security back out and very few file tax returns to get their tax rebates. It’s a huge win/win for the SSA and IRS.
In my ten years working with illegals, they all have fake green cards and fake social security cards. They are not paid under the table as most people think. There is no need for that. The employer covers his ass by making copies of the illegal’s credentials just like they do for the legals. It’s not the employer’s responsibility to verify those credentials if the government itself is not willing to verify them. The employer can’t get any other workers (in my field at least) so why should the employer give a rat’s ass about whether their documents are legal or not? When the illegals get their first paycheck, the employer gets a letter back from the SSA saying that the social security number did not match the name. So right off the bat Uncle Sam knows this person is an illegal. And does nothing about it. Why would they? That illegal is paying into a fund that is bankrupt and the SSA needs all the money they can get. So again, don’t blame the employer. They’re just trying to run a business using the only workers they can get.
If anybody in Washington DC wanted to do anything about illegals, they’d have every employer purchase a credit card type machine to do an instant E-verify of every worker’s documents. Every welfare office, food stamp office, etc would have the same machines. Last time I crossed back into the USA from Mexico on foot, all the Mexicans ahead of me in line were doing just that, swiping their green cards through a reader before they were waved through. So the technology is already in place, yet nobody is doing a thing to get those machines installed in businesses. Why? Because nobody in Washington wants to fix the “problem” because none of them see it as a problem. Only a few of We the People see it as a problem. But when has the opinion of We the People ever mattered in Washington DC?
When things just don’t make sense, check your premises. In this case, the premise that anybody in Washington wants to fix this is clearly a very bogus premise. The Wall is just one more gimmick to pacify the delusional.
Correct, the establishment (R’s and D’s) do not want to alter their rigged gambit, but if you haven’t noticed, the anti-establishment around the world have had enough. Trump is the figure head for the anti-establishment in the USA.
I can’t see how a really, really tall wall, that went 10 feet under ground, curved in towards the Mex side at the top, plus had razor wire on top of wall….would not deter some illegals? At least they would not be able to just walk across as they do now. It would take more effort to scale a wall like this or dig under the wall. But I am no expert how most illegals get in today. Maybe they get in other ways that a wall would do no good in stopping?
Wall on Israel’s border with Egypt stopped 100% of illegal immigrants from crossing that border.
Everyone saying a wall would not work is lying intentionally or can not think for themselves anymore after hearing so much propaganda from those lying intentionally that a wall would not work.
Thanks for the insightful comment. I have always thought that neither party wanted to fix this problem but couldn’t figure out why. It would seem very simple to do so. I don’t think the any mandates on business’ to verify a workers status will work. When in human history has making something illegal worked to stop it. I don’t know what the best way is to secure the border but I would think the wall would be way more effective than what we have now. Nonetheless allowing hard working south americans into the use to work should be very simple. As you indicated we have a shortage of americans who are willing to work hard. Its easier to whine about the 100k in student debt they can’t pay back with their starbucks job because they went away to school to get a degree in gender inequality.
There are plenty of Americans willing to work hard, they are just not willing to work hard for the slave like wages paid to most illegals by greedy employers.
USA as a whole would benefit if working class people would earn better wages. This would happen if illegal immigration was stopped and current illegal immigrants would be deported since employers would be forced by market forces to pay higher wages to get workers.
Also production currently run with cheap illegal immigrant labor in places like California would be forced to pay much more or move to the interior states where cheaper American employees are available.
This would balance USA and create more economic opportunity in the interior states of USA.
Working class wages started to stagnate in late 1970’s and have been dropping as a percentage of wealth created ever since.
What happened in 1970’s?
Millions of illegals started arriving to USA.
What happened in the 1980’s?
Reagan happened first by trickle-down voodoo and then by giving millions upon millions illegal immigrants Reagan’s mass-amnesty in 1986.
During Reagan the birthright citizenship scam interpretation also was taken as policy by Reagan administration after leftist Supreme Court Judge wrote about it in his opinion in a Supreme Court case despite Supreme Court making NO ruling on birthright citizenship and no other SC judge even writing about it.
What happened in 1990’s?
Millions upon millions of new illegal immigrants came thinking they would also get amnesty sooner or later since Reagan had given one and knowing their kids would get birthright citizenship after their wife would give free childbirth paid by Americans in higher hospital costs for Americans.
Ever since the situation has been made WORSE for working class Americans and the African-American community has been decimated by bringing in illegal immigrants to take away jobs from them and drop wages to a level where one could get more from welfare than working.
You are dead wrong about having plenty of Americans willing to work for good wages. I have spoken to numerous contractors in the city of Detroit that as part of the contract they need to hire Detroit residents or pay a fine. They all wind up paying the fine because, even though these are high paying construction jobs, they cannot find anyone willing to do the work or that is qualified. Those they do find someone they get fired because of poor performance. The city of Detroit has a high school graduation rate of less than 20% even though they have adequate funding. This is a cultural issue. I see job ads in the papers here advertising for landscapers at $15/hr aimed at I am assuming Mexicans because they offer both housing and transportation. When I was in college I worked one summer doing landscaping no Mexicans. It was hard work and we didn’t make much more than minimum wage maybe a buck/hr more. One summer I got a cake job in a brewery basically an easy ass job making the same as a gm tool and die maker. This was a teamster run shop and eventually they left the city, I am assuming it was because of the ridiculous wages they paid. I almost quit college to work there, got free beer on all of our 5 paid breaks. Those are the reasons americans aren’t working not because of lack of opportunity, Your are spouting an absolute myth.
Wall would stop 99% of the illegal immigrants currently coming over and mandatory e-Verify on all jobs and all benefits would stop the remaining 1% and cause most of illegal immigrants currently in USA to return home.
The rest could be deported.
When you add removing the faulty interpretation developed in the 1980’s during Reagan that part of law intended to give slaves and descendants of slaves US citizenship actually meant that every illegal immigrant and tourist giving birth in USA should get their child US citizenship US immigration policy would be completely fixed.
1.
Mandatory e-Verify on jobs and benefits with heavy fines for failing to use e-Verify and prison sentences for repeat offenders.
2.
Wall on the whole US-Mexico border.
3.
Stopping birthright citizenship
Great comments on all this JL1. You speak the most commen sense on this topic. But most people want short buzz phrase answers, not the detail you provide.
Would also add to your list: reforming the asylum laws, ending chain migration, and getting rid of the financing to NGO’s and church groups who get paid big $$$ to re-settle so called “refugees” in America.
Weren’t asylum laws supposed to be reserved for those fleeing hot wars? For example, the South Vietnamese after VN war and Jews fleeing Hitler had LEGIT asylum claims. The asylum claims today are totally BS and unverified. If everyone fleeing “street violence” was allowed to gain asylum, about a billion people would have legit claims to asylum in the US! Asylum grantees from Africa skyrocketed under Obama.
All this illegal immigration and fake asylum has really wrought a lot of destruction on the US and Europe. What a terrible shame.
Lots of good points made here. But also lots of points made by armchair quarterbacks who have not worked in fields where illegals are working. Show me some Americans who would be willing to do the backbreaking labor required to plant strawberries, harvest most of the produce grown in California, etc. Many years ago, in high school, I picked fruit and shoveled mud out of irrigation ditches. I washed dishes in college. None of these are fun jobs. But I was glad to have the money. With illegals doing these jobs, at least money is going into Social Security. Move that production overseas and now none of that money is going to the SSA or the IRS.
Aside from politicians, the second biggest problem in this country is demographics. I’m willing to bet large sums of money that most people on this board haven’t produced the 2.2 children necessary to maintain the population, let alone increase it. You have to have an increasing population to keep the Ponzi scheme of government going. Illegals procreate just like Americans used to do. They are going to help pay for your social security that your children would have been doing had you had any. Get rid of the illegals and you get rid of a lot of income Uncle Sam takes in. Companies that hire illegals don’t pay low wages because they are greedy bastards, they pay low wages because that’s all the market will bear. You can only get so much money for a pound of strawberries, a head of lettuce, or a bouquet of flowers before it becomes cheaper to move production overseas. Robotics will eventually replace many of the jobs illegals do but it will never replace all of them.
As for a wall keeping out 99% of illegals, that’s incorrectly assuming they are all coming across from Mexico. The best numbers I can find suggest that a quarter of them are coming from non-Latin American countries. Google “smuggling tunnels” and you’ll see some brilliant tunnels that go under the US/Mexico wall. Some come up on the American side inside of a building so they are very difficult to detect. Like Mish said, many illegals come here legally and overstay their visas. I watched a freight train crossing into the US at Nogales once and wondered how many illegals you could hide on a freight train.
This whole wall discussion, IMO, is a waste of time. The purpose of it is to keep We the People bashing heads with each other over silly things like this instead of doing what we should be doing if we had any gonads: unifying and marching on Washington with torches and pitchforks!
I agree with you 100% but what kind of border protection would work? I do believe its needed. If you allow law abiding into the US that are willing to work roll out the red carpet. Make it easier to become citizens as long as they remain law abiding and bar them from collecting welfare for a certain amount of time. Our country was built on the backs of European immigrants who worker hard to get a better life. Back in the early 1900’s there were no immigration laws you just came over and made a life for yourself without govt help. If we don’t want to face the same demographic bomb the Japanese are facing immigration of law abiding hard working people is the answer. There is plenty of opportunity to better yourself by increasing you skills whether you are citizen or not. The age of high paying low skilled jobs is gone and the only way to increase wealth and productivity is to have a better skilled labor force. The problem here is not just demographics but a generation of young people who have an entitlement attitude and don’t want to get their hands dirty. The most controversial issue is what to do with those that are here already but illegally. No way they are going to be deported so why not figure out a reasonable solution.
I’m not sure what kind of border protection would actually work. I was mostly just trying to point out the fact that nobody in Washington wants to fix the “problem” because they don’t see it as a problem, all their posturing notwithstanding. At this point of my life, I’m taking the George Carlin approach: just standing back as an amused observer since I can do nothing about any of it. I know we don’t have border problems with our northern neighbor because they don’t want to come here for jobs or welfare. If someone really wants to fix the problem, make those two things unavailable to illegals and we could have an open border on the south to match our open border on the north.
“Fining employers and making it “illegal” to hire them is about as effective as the war on drugs. Never will work” (posted by HMK)
I tend to agree with hmk on this, they have been talking about penalizing employers for 30 yrs and its never worked at all.
Israel seems to be the worlds experts at building effective walls and airtight security on their border. Maybe they should consult with the USA on the wall? I would guess they have figured out how to prevent using ladders to just climb over. Razor wire? Really high wall that tilts inward a top? We do have such a long border though may be impractical.
USA is unique in that it shares a really long border with a poor developing nation. Most rich countries do not border poor countries and do not have this problem…Aus, NZ, Japan, most of Europe, Canada…do not border poor countries. Israel is one developed country that does border poorer countries and it has walls.
The keyword is “talking”.
Politicians have been talking about penalizing employers employing illegals but they have never done it in a meaningful way.
Are you sure the folks in the US are worried about the right problems?
Mexico border? How about we all look north. Do you know where copious numbers are crossing the border without any impediment at all? Canada
Chatted with Slovaks here in the USA and they know the safest locations to cross the border from Canada into the USA for their friends and family.
Slovakia is part of the Visa Waiver program and has been part of it since 2008 so all Slovak’s that want to come to USA can come here legally by paying few dollars for ESTA (checks that they are not criminals or on any US government watch lists and that they have a return flight ticket back to Slovakia) and presenting their Slovakian passport at the border and having proof of funds to pay for their costs during their stay in USA.
All can stay in USA for up to 90 days on that ESTA.
So either you misunderstood what the Slovak’s were saying or they were just saying that by coming through Canada they do not have to have that return ticket already bought for up to 90 days in advance and can instead buy it nearer their flight back home and be more flexible in their travel plans.
Slovakia is part of EU and most Slovak’s are well-educated and Slovakia is a beautiful country with beautiful women and there are no hordes of muslim migrants in Slovakia since they do NOT give free welfare money and free apartments paid by government like favorite migrant destinations Germany and Sweden do.
“Trump should have passed e-verify and benefits cuts to illegals in his first year”
Bingo!
And if he did that we would not need a wall. The dam wall will not even be effective. It will be defeated by 18′ ladders.
Mish, the vast majority of illegals use real and/or social security numbers to effectively bypass e-verify.
The point of e-Verify is to check that the migrant is legally in USA and that they have a valid residence permit, work visa or Greencard and that they have a valid social security number in their own name.
The illegal immigrants currently use somebody else’s social security numbers and give them to the employers but this is NOT e-Verify.
e-Verify is much more than just getting a social security number.
Collecting social security numbers without checking they are actually the persons real social security numbers in the persons name is just the minimum way employers can employ illegals and then claim the illegal cheated the employer by giving a false social security number.
When somebody else uses your social security number you get the tax consequences from IRS but IRS just removes these consequences after you tell them that somebody else is using your social security number but since IRS is firewalled from ICE by stupid Democrat created regulations there is NO follow-up.
IRS should report every use of stolen social security number to ICE and ICE should raid all firms that employ people who use stolen social security numbers since this would be an effective way of arresting and deporting massive amounts of illegal immigrants but this is NOT done due to IRS being forbidden to do so by Democrat made rules that Republicans have NOT fixed.
Many illegals also get from IRS a social security number substitute called ITIN that IRS gives to illegal immigrants if they apply. By using their own ITIN illegal immigrants can get EITC aka Earned Income Tax Credit that is paid in CASH to them if they earn so little from wages that they have NO federal taxes to pay (most illegals earn so little they have no federal taxes when using ITIN) so EITC is FREE money paid to illegal immigrants by IRS.
Those illegals who earn enough to need to pay federal taxes can either use stolen Social security numbers only OR have ITIN for one job so they get the free EITC cash from IRS and use a stolen social security number for another job so they do not have to pay federal taxes.
Some illegals use only stolen social security numbers because they are afraid of being deported if they give their real address to IRS which is a requirement for ITIN but IRS is firewalled from ICE and does NOT give out any info on those illegal immigrants who have an ITIN and does NO follow up when it is clear to them that some employers have many illegal immigrants working when one firm happens to have multiple employees using stolen social security numbers.
Agree with you for the most part, but the e-verify website directly states: ‘Does not discriminate against workers because of their national origin, citizenship, or immigration status.”
E-Verify checks that you are LEGALLY in USA.
Obviously there can not be any discrimination based on your national origin and citizenship.
Immigration status in the e-Verify website in my interpretation refers to there not being any discrimination between different kinds of visas or dreamers who are legally in USA after Obama’s dreamer amnesty and also illegal immigrants who get permission to work after they have asked for asylum and are waiting for their asylum hearing in front of immigration judge for up to 2 years.
Catch-and-Release policies and asking for asylum have given millions of illegals the right to work in USA until they have their asylum hearing.
It’s very easy, go to the European System it solves a number of problems 8) EVERYONE who is legally in the country (or entered in a legal manner for more than a casual visit) is registered with the local government where they live, all the employer has to do is check with said government . . . citizenship, and licenses to drive, weather and were you can vote and other important information are all in the same database . . . easy right . . . just pass a national ID law and … done. A social security card/number is about the least secure way possible to ID someone on the national level … yet it’s the ONLY way for most US citizens.
Sigh
“By using their own ITIN illegal immigrants can get EITC aka Earned Income Tax Credit that is paid in CASH to them if they earn so little from wages that they have NO federal taxes to pay (most illegals earn so little they have no federal taxes when using ITIN) so EITC is FREE money paid to illegal immigrants by IRS.”
use google please . . .
from the IRS website directly: Schedule EIC must have Social Security numbers (SSNs) issued by the Social Security Administration before the due date of the return (including extensions) to claim the EITC. The SSN must be valid for employment meaning it was not issued only for the individual to get a benefit such as Medicaid. The SSN must allow the person to work in the United States even if the holder is too young to work. Your client cannot claim EITC if anyone listed on the return uses an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) or Adoption Taxpayer Identification Number (ATIN) issued by IRS.
BTW: you do NOT have to be a citizen but you DO need a social security number valid for employment (not all are).
There seems to have been changes to the way ITIN’s are treated when it comes to getting free welfare money from government.
1.
Previously a million kids who are NOT legally in USA could get the Child Tax Credit of 1000 dollars a year per child by using ITIN but the Trump tax reform removed this possibility starting in 2019 while increasing the Child Tax Credit for American children to 2000 dollars per child:
2.
The use of ITIN’s was apparently already previously tightened by Obama in 2015:
3.
IRS states on their website as you say that SSN is required for EITC, I hope they enforce that. On that issue it seems I was mistaken.
4.
Illegal immigrants still get WIC money despite being illegally in USA:
“Undocumented immigrants, taxpaying or otherwise…They are eligible, however, for benefits like public schooling, emergency medical care, the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children” aka WIC.
WIC:
“In most WIC State agencies, WIC participants receive checks or vouchers to purchase specific foods each month that are designed to supplement their diets with specific nutrients that benefit WIC’s target population. In addition, some States issue an electronic benefit card to participants instead of paper checks or vouchers. The use of electronic cards is growing and all WIC State agencies are required to implement WIC electronic benefit transfer (EBT) statewide by October 1, 2020.”
5.
39 million social security numbers have been stolen by illegal immigrants between 2012-2016:
I’m surprised you support e-verify, having to ask the governments permission in order to hire or be hired? No fucking thanks. How many thousands of people will be incorrectly denied the right to work? Horrible horrible idea.
Israel had the same problem with illegals and migrants from Egypt prior to building the border wall. I am pretty sure that Israel has stringent employment verifications and tough penalties but that did not stop the migrant flow. Illegal crossings through Sinai went from 1,500 a month to ZERO in 2017. The wall works! It has not been defeated by 18′ ladders, not even once! So stop using the urban tale against the border wall.
Obviously the intention is NOT to fire the border patrol personnel currently employed once the wall is built but to have them monitor the wall and the plans for wall also originally included monitoring, cameras and sensors in the wall.
So if illegal immigrants go near the wall with lots of ladders as shown by cameras and motion sensors send border patrol to keep them on the Mexican side and if illegal immigrants climb the wall with their 18′ ladder by the time they are sitting at the top there will be border patrol waiting for them, lock them up, charge them for illegal border crossing and return them either back to Mexico or their home country.
This claim “but they will just use ladders and climb over” is pure propaganda by people who want to continue flooding USA with millions of illegals and lack any empathy for their fellow Americans hurting from the many bad consequences of illegal immigration.
Getting the land to build the WALL on the border is NOT an issue in California, New Mexico and Arizona since President Theodore Roosevelt signed the “Roosevelt reservation” in 1907 that designated 60 feet along the US-Mexico border to Federal government in California, New Mexico and Arizona so there are NO land issues in California, New Mexico and Arizona since 60 feet is plenty enough to build a wall on the southern border.
The only issue regarding land is in Texas and in Texas Federal government needs to build the wall as close to the border as possible (NOT cutting off large parts of US land and homes while building partial walls like happened under Bush and Obama) and there needs to be gates operated by the land owner when the border is on the river if they have cattle.
Also the land owners need to get adequate compensation for the actual land used by the border wall.
Building a wall in the middle of somebody’s barn and rental house and cutting off large fields of US land is such incompetence that bureaucrats making that kind of stupid plans need to be FIRED on the spot because they are either beyond incompetent or deliberately making stupid plans to cause an outrage that leads to the wall never being built.
USA needs a WALL on the US-Mexico border to STOP illegal immigration that is driving down wages of Americans, stealing jobs from Americans, replacing Americans through birthright citizenship given to illegals babies and tourists babies, using American taxpayers money by getting welfare, benefits and tax credits despite being illegals, crowding the ER’s and hospitals by illegal immigrants and getting free healthcare causing the hospitals to charge Americans life-destroying prices for healthcare and hospital stays because they have to get back the money spent treating illegals (Americans are paying up to 10,000 dollars for the birth of their baby while illegals get that for free and birthright citizenship also for the baby to become the illegal immigrant parents anchor to stay in USA) and most importantly STOPPING the criminal illegal immigrants raping women, raping kids, murdering, assaulting, robbing and killing/maiming Americans in drunkdriving crashes.
The insanity continued during Bill Clinton, George w. Bush and Barack Obama needs to be STOPPED and Schumer and Pelosi and all the elitists both in Democrats and Republicans living in their elite bubble and fighting the wall and wanting to CONTINUE destroying Americans lives through illegal immigration and all the problems that it brings need to be shamed for their continued cheering for more and more illegal immigration.
Schumer and Pelosi parade around as some moral superiors while Americans are DYING every day and now migrants are also DYING at the border while crossing through uninhabited places and in the desert areas to avoid border patrol.
Also many migrants get raped and killed while in Mexico and this is also needless suffering that would stop if there was a wall since people would stay at home instead of trying to come to USA.
How did America ever build roads, railroads and canals? It is a mystery…
How did America ever farm and feed itself before the 1970s? It is a mystery…
Criminal illegal invaders cost Americans $135 billion per year. Why not spend a few percentages of that amount for prevention? There are 35 illegal criminal invaders in America – it is obvious that America has failed in border security.
And why not ONE story of an innocent American raped or murdered by an illegal.
In TEXAS ALONE (over 6 years) – illegal criminal invaders were responsible for 200 homicides; almost 69,000 assaults; 16,854 burglaries; 700 kidnappings; nearly 6,200 sexual assaults; 69,000 drug offenses; 8,700 weapons violations; over 3,800 robberies and over 45,000 obstructing police charges
Here are a few REAL stories of illegal criminal invaders destroying American families through their crimes:
Why not post a few? Or is that too confusing?
I love President Reagan one the last true patriots, loved the US and I believe not corrupted by special interest money. That being said we do need a secure border. How that is accomplished I don’t know. A wall seems like a good idea, no one else has put forth an alternative. Open immigration doesn’t work when they all come in for welfare benefits. Many illegals do game the welfare system. Reagan was correct let those in willing to work and pay taxes while being restricted from get welfare. Fining employers and making it “illegal” to hire them is about as effective as the war on drugs. Never will work. Putting up the wall is bound to run into some snafus not surprising and should be easy to remedy. That is not a reason to scrap the project if that whats best. Resonable solutions to the issues that arise shouldn’t be a big deal.
Reagan was an amnesty-president and gave mass-amnesty in 1986 to millions upon millions of illegal immigrants.
Reagan’s 1986 amnesty is part of the reason tens of millions illegal immigrants have come to USA after 1986.
E-Verify would work if it was MANDATORY and there would be huge fines for employers who have not used e-verify on all their employees.
Repeated e-verify violations should lead to long prison sentences for company executives.
That wall was built 10 years ago?
There has been partial wall building in parts of US border with Mexico during Bush and during Obama but illegal immigrants just go across US border next to the walled parts.
There needs to be a wall on the whole US border with Mexico.
I am disappointed in you Mish.
The border is NOT secure.
There are illegal immigrants crossing all the time.
There are even previously deported rapists and gang members crossing BACK into USA and only some are caught at the border.
Some migrants are dying of thirst when crossing the border in uninhabited places to avoid border patrol.
There is a little bit better border enforcement at the border but the WHOLE US-Mexico border needs a WALL.
The border enforcement can be stopped completely by the next president so a wall is the only solution that stops the flow of illegals permanently and stops the inhumane tragedies at the border with some migrants dying and the wall also stops previously deported criminals and gang members from returning.
The bureaucrats separating US land need to be FIRED and the border wall needs to be built on the border or very near the border and there needs to be a gate operated by the land owner for getting their cattle something to drink where the border is on the river.
The family whose home burned down behind the previously built part of border wall is a tragic case but there were many mistakes in that case:
1.
The local firefighter department was not informed there was such a wall and that there was an US home behind that, the fire department should have had it clearly mapped out in their systems and there should have been a sign on the road pointing to the home.
2.
The home owner should have opened the gate when his home caught fire so the fire department could get to it OR the fire department should have been given access codes to that gate previously.
Using such an individual tragedy to fight against a border wall is a shame.
Every rape, murder and assault committed by illegal immigrants and numerous drunk driving crashes caused by illegal immigrants resulting in death and maiming and permanent disability of Americans could have been PREVENTED if there was a wall.
To fight against a wall is to in effect say that one does NOT care that Americans are raped, murdered, assaulted and killed in drunk driving crashes by illegal immigrants.
On e-verify I agree with you, there needs to be a mandatory e-verify of all new and existing employees with heavy fines for companies that do not check that their employees are legally in USA.
Also ALL welfare and benefit payments and tax credits paid in cash to illegal immigrants need to be stopped so there is NO welfare magnet and there is NO jobs magnet pulling people into USA illegally.
Trump should have passed e-verify and benefits cuts to illegals in his first year but concentrated on stupid things and surrounded himself with INCOMPETENT ass-kissers telling Trump how great he is.
Trump is also afflicted by a syndrome that makes him brag all the time how something is the greatest ever and that is good if you are trying to sell luxury real estate but stops him from getting political results when he is surrounded by ass-kissers.
I did not care much either. I Simply thought it was a waste of money. However, I am now concerned about a land grab. Not acceptable.
This is the first time Twitter posted my direct reply to Trump.
The interest on US federal debt is over 700 billion a year.
Wall on the whole US-Mexico border would cost just 25 billion so building a wall would be less wasteful than almost everything else the government does.
US federal budget is over 5000 billion YEARLY so the building of the wall on the whole US-Mexico border would cost LESS than 0.5% of the yearly US federal budget and the cost would be ONCE.
Open the border both ways.
Reagan was the amnesty Don and gave millions upon millions illegal immigrants a mass-amnesty in 1986.
I don’t care if we build the wall or not. I’m just sick of hearing about it. Both Trump and the dems are acting like 5 year olds.