The House votes to kill California’s onerous EV mandates. It’s a symbolic gesture, but an important one.
It’s a symbolic vote because Biden would veto the legislation if passed, but a House vote shows Banning Gas Vehicles Isn’t Popular
Eight House Democrats joined 214 Republicans last week in voting to block California and other states from banning gasoline-powered vehicles. While the legislation has no chance of becoming law this Congress, the vote is politically and legally important.
The Clean Air Act lets the Environmental Protection Agency grant California a waiver to impose its own vehicle tail-pipe emissions standards and for other states to follow them. Congress didn’t intend for the law to apply to CO2 emissions, which don’t cause pollution or harm human health.
Yet the Obama and Biden Administrations have broadly interpreted the law to let California regulate vehicle greenhouse-gas emissions. The Biden EPA has granted California a waiver to require EVs to make up a growing share of auto-maker sales through 2025. It has also approved California’s plan to phase out internal-combustion engines in heavy-duty trucks.
The House GOP’s Preserving Choice in Vehicle Purchases Act would override those waivers and prevent EPA from approving a request by California to ban the sale of new gas-powered cars by 2035. The legislation would also block bans in the 15 states that have adopted California’s “zero emission vehicle” program.
Is Eight a Lot?
Eight may not sound like much, but sheep tend to flock together.
I wonder what the true vote would be if it was a secret ballot. I suspect but cannot prove it would be much greater.
Only progressive nut cases would want to hand over policy to the state of California.
Headed to the Courts
The D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals last week heard three challenges to the Biden Administration’s back-door EV mandate and California waivers. States argue that Congress didn’t authorize either. Congress banned states from imposing their own fuel-economy rules, which is what California’s internal-combustion engine ban effectively does.
I expect the Supreme Court will strike this nonsense down as soon as it gets there.
Energy Madness May Cost Biden the Election
If Trump would just settle down, focus on winning ideas, stop the name calling, and sound more presidential, he can win over independents and suburban women and beat Biden in 2024.
On second thought, he might not even have to do that because Biden’s energy policies are stocking so much inflation that Trump might win anyway.
Biden claims to be the working class candidate. Is he?
Exploring the Working Class Idea
- If you want fewer goods and services and higher taxes to pay for them, Biden is your man: Yet Another Biden Regulation Will Increase Costs and Promote More Inflation
- Biden’s Green Energy Inflation Reduction Act Needs a Big Bailout Already
- The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration NHTSA did an impact assessment of 4 fuel standard proposals and compared them to the cost of doing nothing. Guess what: The Shocking Truth About Biden’s Proposed Energy Fuel Standards
- Regarding Healthcare: Biden Seeks to End Cheaper Obamacare Alternatives, Expect Another Supreme Court Smackdown
If you don’t work and have no income, Biden may make your healthcare cheaper. If you do work, he seeks to take your healthcare options away.
If you want to pay higher prices for cars, give up your gas stove, be forced into an EV, subsidize wind energy then pay more for electricity on top of it, you have a clear choice. If you support those efforts, by all means, please join him on the picket line for a token photo-op (not that you will be able to get within miles for the staged charade).
Biden does not support the working class, he supports the unworking class. This is a position Trump can exploit.
Because states use gas taxes to pay for road repairs and other infrastructure projects. An EV driver doesn’t use gas and therefore doesn’t pay gas taxes. So to make up for the lack of funds, individual states have an addition car registration fee.
You have not done your homework. I prepay my road tax in the form of an extra registration fee of $140.25. Divide the ICE road tax of $0.405/gallon into that $140.25 and the result is that I am prepaying tax on 346 gallons of gasoline.
Where are you?
Colorado Accountant. My apologizes, I did not finish reading your initial email. I stopped at “An EV driver doesn’t use gas and therefore doesn’t pay gas taxes.” I should have read it all the way. Again, my apologies.
***
North Carolina.
link to cars.usnews.com
Does North Carolina Penalize EV Buyers?
North Carolina assesses an annual fee of $140.25 to EV buyers.
link to wral.com
The state gas tax now [sic 2022] is 38.5 cents a gallon. That increases to 40.5 cents a gallon come Jan. 1 [sic. 2023], due to a formula that takes population growth and inflation into account.
That works out to be $140.25/($0.405/gallon) or 346.3 gallons.
Bottom line I prepay the equivalent of 346.3 gallons in road tax each year for my EV.
No. States use Gas Taxes as “Piggy Banks” to fund all sorts of Pork Barrel Projects and pad Politicians’s Special Interests Supports that fund their campaign. DIG deep into where some of the waste goes. “The Best Government that (Special Interest) Money Can Buy!!”
There are three EV issues that aren’t seriously being talked about publicly.
1. EV’s don’t work in cold weather. We have quite a few states that get extremely cold weather.
2. The cost of an EV. The current average car payment is $800. The average middle class family can’t afford an EV or 2 EV’s for a family. Interest rates have significantly increased. A $64,650 loan at 9.09% for 6 years has an estimated payment of $1,084 mo. for 1 car and $2,168 for 2 cars. How much money does the average family need to make to afford $26,000 in annual car loans. (excluding charging, insurance, electricity)
3. Infrastructure.
Well stated, but I have mentioned them, especially infrastructure, numerous times.
Your posts are excellent! I was talking about the MSM. I appreciate you stating facts, providing charts along with your opinions.
1) In cold weather ICE cars get less milage also but I see that for very cold climates it could be a problem especially since in those climates people more of less have to buy a car that works well in the cold which means a heavy SUV style car. Tesla doesn’t make that type. It has the truck that would beat the snow and ice with flying colors but the styling isn’t for everyone. Detroit could use this as an opening.
2) The cost of the EV depends on who makes it. Since Detroit loses money on each EV they make they need a high price. Here again Tesla has the price advantage. Musk always intended to start with an EV only the wealthy could buy and then using volume sales attack the medium price market and then on to the economy cars. He will be building a under $25,000 EV soon. At that price everybody can buy them. The Legacy car manufactures have a problem making money on EVs at any price. They blinked and now they are far behind. Funny, Musk did the same thing in the rocket market. Everyone blinked and they found themselves far behind.
Yeah, I’d love to see the folks here who hate EVs put their money where their mouths are and short Tesla…
Some probably did…and lost their arses…that’s one (of many) reason why they’re soooooo angry.
Uncle Sam’s 1.6 billion dollars last year helped corporate welfare queen Musk.
I live at 10,000 feet at a ski resort. Our town is lousy with Teslas and Rivians. My cheapo EV does fine too. Yeah, you lose 20% of your range. So what? There’s a charging station on practically every corner around here now.
The elites tend to take care of their own and set the Government to dealing with the poor.
These are bogus issues.
1. EVs DO work perfectly well in Cold weather. The average person drives LESS than 40 miles per day.
While I grew up in the South and Currently live in the South, I lived in Chicago for a decade, where it gets Cold AF for four months a year and kinda cold for a couple more. You pre-condition the battery (warm it) and it goes along fine. The Tesla Thermal Management System is good for this and improving every year. Plus the majority of the population in the US hasn’t lived in “several cold states” for decades. California, Florida, Texas, GA, the Rest of the South, plus the Southwest means that more and more people live in states with warm or mild weather. That trend has continued.
2. Most “Middle Class” Families are NOT buying $70K vehicles, so your numbers are whacked. Those are bought by Upper Middle Class or wealthy, who can afford BMWs, Mercedes, Audi and Expensive Trucks and SUVs.
The two most popular EVs in the US are the Tesla Model Y and Model 3.
The base Model 3 is about $32.5K with Fed Tax Credit. The base Model Y is $40K with Federal Tax credit. These are both cheaper if your state has more incentives. These are CLEARLY affordable by a Middle Class Family.
3 Infrastructure: The ENTIRE country is ALREADY wired for Electricity. MOST people who buy NEW Vehicles have their own home. EVs can be plugged into normal outlets and trickle charged or 240V and charge faster without any special chargers installed.
If you want a normal EV charger installed, it’s a few hundred or possibly 1K.
MANY Electricity / Power Companies have programs where this becomes cheap or Free.
Also, nearly every Grocery Store, Strip Mall, Shopping Mall, Movie Theater, many Restaurants, parking decks, parking lots, Apartment Complexes, etc. near me already have several chargers in their parking lots.
While I agree that there’s plenty of infrastructure to be added, there’s plenty for the number of EVs on the road. Roughly 70% plus in the US on the road are currently Teslas, which have the best charging infrastructure on the planet.
In 2024 or 2025, most of the rest of the EV makers will have access to the Tesla Charging Network and this “infrastructure excuse” goes away.
“1. EVs DO work perfectly well in Cold weather. The average person drives LESS than 40 miles per day.”
Any Canadians on here? The following report did a study at at -7C to -1C. Any Canadian is gonna wonder why the f%ck are they doing tests at those temperatures and instead do some testing on realistic Canadian temperatures. As from the same study at colder temperatures which Canadians will experience loses of 50%+
link to cbc.ca.
“Electric vehicles (EVs) can lose up to 30 per cent of their range in freezing temperatures, according to a U.S. firm that tested range loss in 7,000 cars.
Seattle-based Recurrent measured range loss in 7,000 EVs at temperatures between –7 C and –1 C.”
“Steve Holmik of Sudbury, Ont., drives a Tesla Model Y and said he can lose up to 50 per cent of his range if outside temperatures are very cold.”
link to northeastnow.com
“According to SaskPower, EVs can perform well at any temperature. However, the battery needs to be kept warm meaning you will use extra power when it’s cold because the car will use power to heat the battery.
In an email, the company noted driving on a highway when it’s super cold uses a lot of power as all the cold air rushing under the car at highway speed cools the battery. The battery range will drop below 50 to 60 per cent in those extreme conditions.”
Yes, if you live in fully arctic conditions and need to do a lot of road trips, you might need to wait a few years. Keep moving those goalposts!
Remember when everyone was making fun of hybrids 10 years ago?
Keep burning your money, suckers.
This is foolishness and ATTEMPTING to use an Edge Case. NINETY PERCENT of ALL Canadians live within 100 miles of the US border. I lived in Chicago for a decade and my friends live in Minnesooooda. Or “Canadian Gophers” as we lovingly refer to them.
They drive EVs, the amount of electricity needed to warm up the battery a few minutes before you drive, is minimal, programmed into your trip and doesn’t make a tremendous difference in the monthly bills. Is battery tech getting MUCH better every year? Yes. Are they now building batteries with better performance in the Cold? Yes. Are Tesla’s Thermal Management Systems doing much better with every iteration? Yes.
Will this be a Long Term Problem? No.
Buuuuuuttttt…
If you’re up by the Arctic Circle Spearing Narwhals for a living and need to haul 20,000 lbs of whale 500 miles every single day, then please, by all means, keep running with your nonsensical examples.
**Apologies to the ACTUAL people who DO live off the land and actually hunt narwhals and other larger-ish animals to feed the tribe…I do know that you need a different form or Ground Transportation…but the number is tiny and won’t affect the overall Ground Transportation market.
Cheers!
PS Norway goes above the Arctic Circle too. They’re at 90% EVs New Vehicle Sales and have ALREADY replaced about 25% of their ENTIRE light passengers vehicle fleet. By the end of this decade, expect that nearly ALL of the Norwegian Passenger Vehicle fleet will be EV. Will there be a handful of alternative powered vehicles? Yes.
Will it even matter in the Grand Scheme of things? No.
Yes, the Norway experience has been a remarkable success (sarcasm)
link to joannenova.com.au
Wonder if they also factored in the lost efficiency in cold weather? Wonder what a 6 year old battery would get after being parked outside?
Did you READ this article??
Because even though it’s poorly written and speculative at best on some points, with an obvious bias against EVs and everything better for humans, here’s the punchline:
“They looked at official fuel sales, annual average mileage and car sales as reported by Statistics Norway and estimate that passenger car fuel demand is down 20%, which is “in line with the BEV market penetration”
…So the ACTUAL fuel consumption from Passenger Vehicles has fallen 20% because EVs, which are roughly 20% of EVs on the Road currently seems to make complete sense.
This is a GOOD thing and this number should increase to roughly 50% reduction in Passenger Vehicle Fuel Consumption in approximately Three years, when the 50% of EV Passenger vehicles on the road gets to that similar number. YAY! Good job Norway.
The larger Trucks, etc. which have NOT been made EVs yet, although will become EVs eventually, within a few years, will ALSO begin to drive down both Fuel Consumption and pollution. There is a much smaller number of Large Vehicles, so as those are replaced, the effects will be dramatic as well.
This is happening whether people being paid by the Fossil Fuels / BIG Auto misinformation spreaders try to stop it or not. Norway just showed it’s ALREADY had an impact on the passenger vehicles side. Bigger Trucks and Vans are next. Hello Rivian / AMZN for Vans and Tesla / Pepsi Co / Frito Lay.
And note that Norway’s population has gone UP according to this article…so the reduction is even better.
Cheers!
“Did you READ this article??”
Yes, I just guess we just see what we want to see. EVs, Solar, Wind, Renewable only run on fossil fuels and subsidies.
link to joannenova.com.au
“With an EV, you don’t eliminate emissions, you just export them.
You have to dig up about 500,000 lbs of material to make a single 1000lb battery
It takes 100 to 300 barrels of oil to manufacture a battery that can hold one barrel of oil equivalent.
Demand for those minerals (Lithium, Cobalt, Nickel) will increase between 400 and 4000%.
There’s not enough mining in the world to make enough batteries for all those people.”
Foolish people say foolish things. Joanne is a Fool…who says foolish things. She’s not even close to an expert in…anything. And she’s about as biased as can be. Cobalt is being removed from batteries at a significant rate…so blabbing about that growth rate is foolish. Cobalt is being replaced in LFP batteries. NO COBALT. The points she brings up MIGHT have been valid TEN YEARS ago…but simply aren’t anymore. Norway uses Hydro for power for instance. Many other advanced countries are using many renewable sources.
DRILLING for OIL NEVER STOPS if you keep burning it for fuel. It’s going to be plummeting in many countries as we see EV penetration continue.
The foolish comparisons against a battery that lasts for more than a decade…with ONE BARREL of oil which doesn’t last at all…it gets burned…its just sooooo silly. I hope you don’t actually believe those Apples to Poison Apples comparison. Because Fossil Fuels have been the most destructive industry in human history…and it’s being phased out as fast as can be in many countries…and even many lazy, corrupt ones with SuperPACs are still moving forward on it.
How does Norway charge the EV drivers for the roads? Here in the US it is in the gas tax.
“How does Norway charge the EV drivers for the roads? Here in the US it is in the gas tax.”
Regarding lost revenue from EV cars, Ive also asked the question how the government will make it up. In Canada, the federal and provincial governments take in tens of billions of dollars from gas taxes, yet Ive never heard where the lost revenue will come from should we go totally EV but I believe that will not likely be the case. I have seen in the US, some states are now proposing taxing EVs by the mile.
With respect to Norway, Im not an expert but I have seen some recent articles about weaning off subsidies. Like I have stated the whole renewable, EV, solar, wind only runs off subsidies and fossil fuels. Ever increasing subsidies are required and when they stop, renewable stops.
You might find the following post of interest with respect to Norwegian subsidies.
link to driving.ca
The issue not discussed is that Norway is paying a huge toll for its greenness. The incentives Norway offers — Mr. Edvarsden dismisses them as mere “tax breaks” — are generous enough to make Kathleen Wynne seem parsimonious. All cars sold in Norway, for instance, face a costly value-added tax similar to our HST and, you guessed it, all said government tithes are waived if the car plugs in, cutting the price of an EV roughly in half, says TheFinancialTimes.
“But that’s just the beginning. There are road taxes waived, toll road fees forgiven and there is free electrical charging throughout the land. Tally it up and Norway’s success, according to FT, is a result of hundreds of millions of dollars in tax revenues making it almost free to drive an electric car. “It is normal,” says The Times, “for a Norwegian to buy an electric car in addition to a petrol vehicle for daily use to save money.”
“It’s an advantage not lost on Norwegian consumers, one Tesla owner telling the newspaper, “To be honest, the reason for buying this was a little bit about the environment, but mostly the savings.” He’s not alone: According to the Norwegian Electric Vehicle Association, about 72 per cent of buyers choose an electric car for the subsidies and just 26 per cent for environmental reasons, not a welcome prospect should the country try to wean itself off the incentives.”
“And for those environmentalists thinking that part of the Norwegian miracle is that the country is weaning itself off deadly hydrocarbons, think again: The same government offering generous incentives to its citizens to clean up its air is also ladling massive subsidies on its oil companies to find new sources of crude in the environmentally-fragile Arctic. Indeed, the irony seemingly lost on Edvarsden and his fellow poselytizers is that if, as he proposes, all countries follow the Norwegian example, the one nation that won’t be able to afford electric cars will be his own.”
Take a trip across Hwy 50 in the stock EV of your choice and see how many charging stations there are. Be sure to take food, water, and a gas fueled chase vehicle to tow you to the closest charger.
Ah the silliness of people who say “Go on the Loneliest Road in America…aka Hwy 50″…OR Drive your EV to Antarctica and see how it does in the cold because Polar Bears will eat you (yes, I know polar bears are N. Pole) …OR North of the Arctic Circle it don’t work very well because a Narwhal will poke your battery with its horn…and cause fires.
The foolishness of Edge Case Reasoning is beyond absurd. The Model Y is now the Best Selling Vehicle in the World.
More than the F-150..
More than the Toyota Corolla,
More than (fill in the blank) other vehicle you think sells a lot.
Simply put…most people in the US drive 40 miles or less per day. They don’t need a vehicle that has 40,000 miles of range per “tank”. They don’t need something that charges in negative 12 seconds because EVs mostly charge at night, when people are sleeping. Or at one of the many charging points at many grocery stores across the country, places of work, you name it, if there’s parking for a lot of vehicles…there will eventually like be EV chargers there.
The EV owners often have solar installed on their house / property or access community solar…
AND they simply don’t fit whatever ludicrous made up edge scenario that people bring up about their uncle Cletus driving 93,000,000 miles to the sun and back every day, uphill, both ways, in the snow, in near Absolute Zero at minus 459 Degrees Fahrenheit.
Sorry, The VAST majority of people, even in America, don’t drive an Astronomical Unit (93MM Miles) and back to work every day.
80% of vehicles sold in Norway (yes, the one up north) are EVs. Strange 80% of vehicles in Norway are EVs if they don’t work in the cold…
link to nytimes.com
“About 80 percent of new cars sold in Norway are battery-powered. As a result, the air is cleaner, the streets are quieter and the grid hasn’t collapsed. But problems with unreliable chargers persist.”
“80% of vehicles sold in Norway (yes, the one up north) are EVs. Strange 80% of vehicles in Norway are EVs if they don’t work in the cold…”
Realist ( multiple alias fraudster, papafraud, mpos, jeffgreenscam, imgreenscam, looks like jeffgreenscam took the day off, another alias?)
Looks like EVs in Norway range is similar to Canada losing up to 1/3 range in moderate winter weather and ever greater losses in colder weather, I wonder if someone factored that in the equation?
Meanwhile any thoughts on other countries ramping up fossil fuel production to produce EV batteries.
Odd 1/2 of your post involve complaining about others voicing their opinion and the other 1/2 complaining.
But enough of complaining, can you please give some advice for the die-hard renewable crowd on how to make money on the net zero scam?
Oops sorry Realist, I forgot to post the link. Meanwhile what do you suggest to make money off the renewable transition that you are so fond of?
link to nye.naf.no
The super obvious way to profit is to get an EV and collect those subsidies/gov’t cheese before there are so many EVs that they phase ’em out.
Exactly, do your virtue signaling while the Government is still subsidizing you.
AGAIN…people don’t drive much more than 30 KMS in Norway for a commute. Many EVs have 300 Miles of range. Preconditioning them makes them run better, lose less range, in the cold. This isn’t a real problem…it’s made up, just like most Fossil Fuels FUD, as we are clearly seeing from REAL Norwegians doing just fine in EVs.
One of the EVs must be a van the family can live in under the bridge down by the river.
If the Dow hit 40K Biden might beat Trump.
That’s easy enough to print and front-run the futures market.
When u fill the tank the taxmen rob u at the pump. The spread between CA & TX is higher than $2. In the rural areas gas stations are selling food, junk food, competing
with Dollar General.
MBS : the more ev the lower WTI. The premium u pay for ev is higher than the cost of gas.
EV buyers are upper middle class in the petrie dish.
The Saudis and OPEC+ control the prices of OIL and this gas and diesel.
Thus the prices will always remain higher than it should by normal open market processes.
Simply put, the EVs are already taking over the Light Passenger Vehicle Market and soon enough the Semi’s.
Big screen TVs used to be massively expensive. Now they got to scale and they’re a fraction of the price. As EVs get to scale, they’re also going down in cost. If you WANT to spend a lot on a vehicle, you will always have that option…but Chinese vehicles have already dropped below the average ICE vehicles in the US and Tesla is continuing to cut prices as their costs go down with rapidly rising numbers and manufacturing improvements.
Most of those Chinese EVs exported are Teslas made in their Shanghai factory. Tesla’s world market share is overwhelming I am happy to say.
Ya can’t put a good monopoly down.
Don’t care about Big 3 nor UAW, but Shawn Fain is a WEF stooge intentionally leading the rank-and-file over the cliff. He’ll get a mansion or two, like Bernie.
It will be ‘Big 3 LLC’ – all electrics made elsewhere without UAW.
The free market has been deciding the fate of ICE vehicles for the last THREE decades. You don’t need to take my word for it, look at the economics of gas stations.
link to cnbc.com
Gas station numbers have been decreasing at a sharp rate in the past three decades and the trend is expected to continue, with at least a quarter of service stations globally at risk of closure by 2035 without significant business model tweaks, according to consulting firm BCG.
The hardest hit communities with gas station closings will be those in remote/rural areas because it will be too expensive to send tanker trucks out to the middle of nowhere to earn a few dollars in profits. What everyone living in a rural/remote area with an ICE engine needs to do now is count how many gas stations they have now and then assume 25% or more shutting down – where does that leave you?
Ironically, this whole ICE vs EV argument seems to fall along party lines. Cities, full of dems, will all be driving EVs & saving money and rural areas, full of repubs, will be left scrambling for gas for those F150 trucks and paying huge prices. Dems get richer while Repubs get poorer. Ouch.
Dems get richer? I thought most of them were on public assistance. I can find a gas station just about anywhere.
I have a friend who knows a lot of folks that drive EV. Their biggest complaint is finding an EV station on a trip, availability of that EV station, time to charge, and range issues.
This friend bought a Kia hybrid-gas engine, self charging just like a Prius. He’s getting 53 miles per gallon.
TPTB are trying to controll us and it’s idiots like you that reduce options instead of creating more. Stop trying to remove people’s freedom to decide.
You’re ALREADY controlled if you’re subject to a CARTEL called OPEC+ and have been for half a century. THEY control the price of oil and gasoline and diesel.
MOST of the EVs sold in the US are Teslas. Tesla Owners almost NEVER have any of the issues you listed because the Vehicles can find the chargers if they even need to. Most of the time the Car simply charges at night or when the electricity is cheapest. MANY Tesla owners already have Solar and Battery Storage at their homes. This becomes a complete Non-Issue, when Non-Tesla EVs are able to charge at Tesla Superchargers starting in 2024 / 2025…and their cars will ALSO tell them where they can charge at the best charging infrastructure on the planet.
53 miles is better than average for an ICE but it pales in comparison to over 100+ miles equivalent, especially if the Solar panels + Battery Storage are providing most of the electricity.
This has ALREADY been solved in several countries, including a couple OIL Majors.
Pretending like we don’t know how this is going to end up is sticking your head in the sand.
did you read what I wrote? the problem isn’t TODAY it will be in 2030 and beyond. Good for you if you find gas stations everywhere, now imagine 25% or more of those “just about anywhere” gone over the next 10 years, that’s what is coming.
The oil companies aren’t going to invest money in dying products anymore than whale oil is used to light lamps, they will move on to other things or they will go bankrupt. Believe whatever you want, let’s see how it plays out.
It’s working the way you say every day in Chicago, for sure, although the ICE Kias are still a hot commodity.
Repubs in the sticks sell food to the Dems in the cities for whatever price the Repubs need to keep the system running. Dems in the cities sell movies, television and vacations to the Repubs that want and can afford them.
Each time people say that this or that bottleneck preventing the widespread adoption of EVs, those bottlenecks are either overcome or turn out not to exist at all.
1) Batteries will never give enough range; Well they do now.
2) There is not enough lithium; Well we seem to be finding a lot of lithium around the
world plus the fact that new materials for new types of batteries are being found.
3) There will never be enough places for recharging; They are popping up everywhere and they are much cheaper to install and maintain that gas stations.
4) They can’t charge fast; Supercharging lowers the time needed and is down to
acceptable levels already.
5) EVs will always be more expensive to manufacture and more expensive to buy
than ICE cars; I think Musk has proved that to be very very wrong. They will be
cheaper to make and to maintain.
There are certainly more objections and I an certain some people here will point them out and I welcome seeing them so I can utterly destroy their arguments.
EVs will not take over the whole market. There will be things where ICE is better so we will see how the market shakes out but I do expect EVs to take over the car and truck markets.
Using electricity for transportation just has too many advantages now. Electric motors are more efficient by nature and easier to make. Additionally you can generate electricity by a myriad of ways. You can generate it by nuclear, wind, solar and by burning oil, natural gas, methane from manure, wood chips, cow chips and generally anything that burns. That is true flexibility in sourcing. To top it off with the cost of space transport declining it will become possible to beam power down to Earth converting it back into electricity. In the future power will not be a problem unless of course radical Ecologists take power and send use to pre-industrial times. That is a definite possibility.
I would like to have some of what you are smoking/drinking Doug.
As long as it’s not too expensive and sort of legal.
It’s Free. It’s The Future. Already being implemented in places near you that don’t fight it.
I never worry about government “mandates”. If they aren’t realistic or practical, they will be delayed, deferred, extended, changed or scrapped as time passes.
For example, many governments committed to phasing out coal and nuclear, only to retreat from those positions when reality forced them to change.
What I tend to focus on are the trends and the directions that the world is moving.
Here are a few of the trends that have been in place for a long time and will likely continue for a long time:
The world continues to transition towards building more renewable energy, and more EVs. For those who oppose the transition, it isn’t going to stop. But it won’t happen fast enough for proponents.
The world demand for energy keeps increasing every year. Population growth and economic growth require this.
The growth in energy demand each year continues to exceed the build out of renewables.
So the demand for fossil fuels continues to grow, hitting new records this year; and will keep growing for many years.
The oil and gas industry has changed its focus over the last decade; less capex, less desire to expand production and reserves, more focus on producing existing reserves, increasing cash flow, eliminating debt, and maximizing profits. This continuing trend means restricted supply in the face of rising demand as we move forward. Which will keep upward pressure on prices. I expect $80-$100 WTI on average with occasional spikes above $100.
The energy transition that the world has been attempting for the last few decades has been insufficient to slow, let alone reduce our greenhouse gas emissions. So the problem of global warming and climate change will continue to worsen. And the costs of mitigating and adapting will keep increasing.
The rising cost of basic necessities (food, water, energy) will make it difficult to improve living standards.
Realist (papafraud, jeffgreenscam, imgreenscam, pos)
With all these miraculous opportunities where do you suggest investors put their money if they are so inclined to believe in renewable?
No. I read in the first article you cited there was a 20% REDUCTION in Gasoline / Fuels usage from passenger vehicles because of a 20% penetration of EVs in the Passenger Vehicle Fleet.
DONE Deal.
NOW, you’re trying to bring in a different (poorly written and researched) article to claim that fossil fuels are overwhelmingly used for Solar and EVs and give some terrible attempts at trying to use bad math to compare making a battery and a barrel of OIL and the false equivalency between the numbers.
EXCEPT that once you build a Battery, it’s good for a massive number of recharges and usage…
And as more and more Ground Transportation, Mining Equipment, Commercial and Industrial manufacturing switches to Electricity…Less and Less OIL / Fossils is burned making any of that stuff.
and Once you burn a Barrel of OIL / Gasoline / Diesel in an ICE engine…it’s GONE, kaput, except, of course for the massive poisonous pollution and toxic carcinogenic particles and volition compounds that you spewed all over yourself and your family and friends and neighbors…
Instead Solar and Batteries and EVs are all around for decades, can be repurposed (stationary storage instead of vehicles) AND 90% plus can be recycled when that is all done. Yes. The recycling is already up and running on three continents.
There is VERY little materials used in batteries and EVs and Solar compared to the Supertankers of Crude, Gasoline and Diesel that get burned
Every Minute of
Every Day of
Every Week of
Every Month of
Every Year.
Oh, and don’t for forget the lovely OIL WARS that pop up every couple of years, just to limit supplies and drive up Your Gas Prices and the OIL Companies Profits.
Cobalt has been removed from a majority of Tesla Batteries, Lithium is plentiful on EVERY continent and Nickel is being replaced too.
While it’s a little early yet, because many EVs are newer vehicles, about half or more of the Lithium and other valuable components / minerals will be recycled and reduce the amount needed to be mined.
The same cannot be said about OIL / Gasoline / Diesel because ya burn it alllll!
Cheers!
As always, I recommend oil and gas stocks; particularly Canadian ones.
I own all of these.
CNQ, CVE, SU, WCP, CPG, MEG, BTE, ATH, SGY, TOU
The Government can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.
Just say’in.
And many thanks for a couple new stock symbols.
This entire green energy project is delusional and divorced from reality. The real fossils fuel crisis is: we’re running out. We need a replacement and the neccesary infrastructure to support it. I doubt that solar and wind will ever contribute more than 10% to 15% of the total since its EIEO is too small and its intermittent character makes it unreliable. The real win is in efficiency. Things like led lighting, good insulation and other energy efficient technologies are a huge win. Also bringing the planets population down to a good sustainable level is important, but, unfortunately never mentioned. The populations in Western countries is declining naturally which is a good thing. Dumb economic metrics and theories wanting perpetual GDP growth are myopic and divorced from common sense. If we would stop mass immigration then perhaps these poor countries would have the necessary feedback to stop their unbridled procreation. Besides, the divinity is our strength mantra is not been proven out by history. Ethnic diverse countries typically suffer from ethnic conflict and civil war. A stupid slogan started to try and put a happy face on a problem has turned into a mindless mantra that will lead to huge problems in the future.
Solar and Wind ALREADY supply more than 10% or 15% of Electricity in SEVERAL areas. In Texas, Solar and Wind provide about 30%+ of the electricity to the Grid. California is even more % by Renewables and EVERY new Residential that is built there is required to have rooftop Solar or connect to Community Solar.
And Utility Scale Battery Storage has just started growing in TX.
The majority of the US population now lives in areas great for Solar or Wind or Both. Batteries solve the Intermittent issue both in the Home / Vehicles and at Grid Scale / Commercial Business Levels.
This won’t even be a discussion in 10 years because of the normalcy it will have become.
I would like to have some of what you have been smoking/drinking if it is not too expensive.
It’s called “The Future” and over the previous 4 months, the Tesla Model Y has become the Best Selling Vehicle in the WORLD. More than the F-150 or the Toyota Corolla (the previous global best seller). The Future is bright…if you’re not covered with OIL.
“This entire green energy project is delusional and divorced from reality. The real fossils fuel crisis is: we’re running out. We need a replacement and the neccesary infrastructure to support it. I doubt that solar and wind will ever contribute more than 10% to 15% of the total since its EIEO is too small and its intermittent character makes it unreliable.”
That is the real issue, were running out of cheap fossil fuels. The EV, Solar, Wind Renewable debate is a distraction. Renewable energy is 100 dependable on fossil fuel. Renewable only goes as far as subsidies go. Coming fossil fuel shortages will limit renewables as the cost will go out of sight. Already hitting wind and solar as ever increasing subsidies are required.
Solar & wind also look to have hit somewhat of a peak and will be limited in its application. If interested, further insight can be gained from a few Tom Nelson webcasts. Also suggests looking at other Tom Nelson webcasts.
link to youtube.com
Soeren Hansen: Why wind and solar will not work | Tom Nelson Pod #110
link to youtube.com
Wallace Manheimer: Mass Delusions | Tom Nelson Pod #143
More BIG OIL Stockholm Syndrome Silliness. Keep breathing from the poison tailpipe Hooka ya got going. It will surely help.
“If Trump would just settle down, focus on winning ideas, stop the name calling, and sound more presidential, he can win over independents and suburban women and beat Biden in 2024.”
Absolutely fantastic point, Mish! And let’s add to that the southern border.
If a dem wins in 2024 (even with what’s going to be another corrupt election), then America is DONE! From Biden’s grotesque spending, his anti-energy & green new deal policies and most importantly illegal immigration, you’d expect that dems wouldn’t have a chance.
Put IF they win, it will be a combination of Trump’s stupid mouth & election fraud & interference.
Trump’s Stupid Mouth “Trumps” all the positive things the Reps MIGHT bring to the election. They need to get a REAL candidate, with a REAL platform and stop spewing FUD, hate and lies.
There’s no reason that the Dems should win with Biden…
EXCEPT that the Reps have chosen to lose their F’n minds and focus on foolish things and hate, instead of actually having a constructive discussion and being the party of reason and POSITIVE economic growth. Oh, and the fact that the Conservative (Religious Fundamentalists) INSISTS on trying to take rights away from women.
Time to wise up for Reps and Win with an actual coherent platform for growth and stop being self-Destructive which “whack-a-doodle” candidates.
70 PERCENT of the U.S. does NOT want Trump or Biden. Take hint and get BETTER candidates, who can actually bring the country together.
As an Independent, I thought previous candidates were bad…but somehow BOTH these corrupt political parties keep lowering the bar for Dumbness and lack of solid planning / platforms that appeal to more than 50.0001% of the country.
Be better politically Party people on both sides.
“70 PERCENT of the U.S. does NOT want Trump or Biden.”
BS!!!! Just massive, BS! With zero citation. Go home, dude!
And, remember from my post, it’s obvious that I’m not a Trump fanboy.
Yes, MORE than 70% of people want DIFFERENT Non Septuagenarian plus (Old Farts in their 70’s and 80’s) candidates. That is NOT hard to understand. Just about everyone is SICK AND TIRED of both of these dudes.
The Republicans are flat out afraid of a bad ex (non)reality TV star, who cries like a baby and makes up lies every time he speaks. The Dems are afraid that Biden is going to croak of natural causes…or lose his mind (more than Orange Mussolini).
This is pathetic that we’ve got 300,000,000+ people in this country and the dregs are being foisted upon us.
It’s not that hard…(nor that easy)…but it is SIMPLE to fix. Not easy…but simple.
Good luck to everyone with this terrible choice.
I don’t know about your 70% number, but I’d say that it might more realistically apply to the number of people who are sick to death of the top-down agenda.
Race, gender, feticide, climate, mandates, open borders, sanctuary cities and states, war with Russia,etc.
We need to attempt a return to sanity and will likely vote for someobe who thinks the same way. Even if he is rude, crude, and obnoxious.
I hate Trump and Biden, but Trump is better than Biden. Trump was a much better president than Biden.
Trump’s a corrupt egomaniac that would absolutely suspend the Constitution to save his fat butt…and then use the Gov to take (illegal) vengence on ANYONE that disagreed with him (not just political opponents…anyone he didn’t like or wouldn’t do biz with him)…
ANYBODY that knew how he did business in NYC knew that he’s a cheat and absolutely NOT the level of character to be a true leader.
There’s already too many corrupt Dictators in the World. We don’t need one trying to make the US into his personal PiggyBank.
Trump doesn’t belong anywhere NEAR the Presidency. He should have just cut a Deal like Nixon did for a Pardon and rode off into the Sunset and paid off some more pornstars for sex. NO THANK YOU.
Maybe he’ll end up in Jail…maybe he won’t…either way, get him the hell out of the government. We have enough problems without an angry crybaby with sticky fingers.
To be CLEAR, I don’t think EITHER party has put forth a viable candidate that’s even close to leading in the polls. Mostly a bunch of crud on a stick by both parties, trying to suck up to the special interests for each party.
Time for Term Limits & Campaign Finance Reform and get rid of Citizens United, which is just “legalized bribery” using SuperPACs.
We need an Independent that actually isn’t pandering to Special Interests and actually is doing something for the American People.
Cheers!
Despite your character assassination, we want a (Rare) (Very rare) president who wants to restore sanity to this country.
Enough with the wokeism, the BIPOCLGBTQ agenda, the climate lunacy, the open borders and sanctuary cities.
Nah Pal, He killed his OWN Character a LONG time ago. Grabbin’ P***Y and cheating on his Wife…then paying off MULTIPLE Porn Stars with Hush Money. That doesn’t even count the number bankruptcies and failed businesses he’s had over the years.
He needs to go BACK to Reality TV, where a Made up Story is good enough.
Can’t assassinate something that was NEVER there.
He’s not competent and just makes up lies as he goes. I don’t give two craps about “Woke” anything so quit your deranged babble against the Dems.
I’m an independent and don’t kowtow to a scumbag that can’t keep his stuff straight.
Get a BETTER candidate…or keep losing elections. We would LOVE for the Reps to put up a SOLID candidate with ACTUAL healthy values that didn’t run around screaming about hate and cheat on his wife, his country and his businesses. We’ve got enough of those in Congress. A REAL leader needs to lead the MAJORITY…not the fringe. When more people can’t stand you than vote for you…you’re a loser before you even started. That’s why he lost last time…and there was NO “Red Wave” and that’s why he’ll keep losing.
Donny go home…cut a Pardon Deal, stop wasting the country’s time and maybe you can star in another R-TV show that makes you feel all powerful.
The REST of us are trying to get American moving in a positive and productive way. WITH Fiscal Responsibility…WHILE keeping the Gov / Country Running.
Stop bringing up crap about old elections you lost. Term Limits, Campaign Finance Reform and NO Family getting jobs and money from the Government or from Special Interests. It’s NOT really that much to ask for now is it??
You have a serious case of TDS.
So vote for JB or HRC or whoever the establishment sticks us with.
Bon chance.
Nah bruh, Trumps a failed fool. Don’t need to be deranged to see that. He’s a bully that the Republicans are afraid to punch in the mouth (metaphorically speaking).
Now he’s hawking shiny gold sneakers to pay for his $$ Half a BILLION in fines from being foolish and fracturing some laws.
Republicans…PICK A GOOD CANDIDATE…that’s not making up something every time he’s on TV. They would win hands down…but not this Orange Mussolini. He gets worse every day.
Mandates and bans are the tools of morons.
The new Silverado EV gets 450 miles on a charge, costs $70k. The technology is good enough. Prices are high because the market allows it. MSRPs will fall rapidly as production scales.
Even at $70k, it might save enough in O&M to deliver a lower total cost of ownership vs gas.
Give it a few years. EVs are obvious winners. And they are deflationary.
No US government agency has any important input on the matter at this point. All they can really do is influence what portion of the batteries come from the US.
Charging an EV at home is like buying gas for $1-1.50/gallon (if you don’t live in California).
I have a yellow 1972 Continental in the garage that will last forever and doesn’t use gasoline or electric. Gets me everywhere I need to go within 10 miles these days. Used to be about 50 miles when I got it, though. Schwinn.
Those trucks from Ford piled up. Drivers found out very quickly what the issues were and the word got out.
Ford reduced the asking prices immediately.
My best friend owns six dealers in the west, and he cannot get rid of them at his Ford Stores.
Show me one that is listed at MSRP.
Last dealer I called wanted $10k over for a F150 Lightning EV PRO.
Ford EV sales have started to go up after cutting prices. Including the lightning.
How long does it take to charge the new Silverado EV for another 450 miles?
From your home’s power line.
In re-reading what Mish has written, it would be more productive for the people who crafted this bill to show **instead** the graph from Exxon showing the peaking of world production and say to the voters, “We have already reached peak oil production here in California and in a number of other states. Texas and New Mexico are not far behind us. Drilling in ANWR is not going to do much to alleviate this situation. The graph depicts that by 2032, we will have past our last chance for a peak and it is forecast to be over. After that, crude oil production rates will be on the decline.
The **world’s** automakers have made their decisions and are transitioning manufacturing to EVs exclusively. Better batteries and renewables are on their way.
We are not going to micromanage your decisions on when and how you transition to something more sustainable. Many CEOs see this situation developing and are taking steps to address this situation for their businesses. It’s **your** responsibility to decide how **you** will transition away from using gasoline and/or diesel. We can only urge you to gather the best information you can and make the best decisions you can. Any legislation and regulations we craft will be a way to make this transition an orderly one. Good luck!!”
I agree PeterEV. Let the economics of a free market lead to better solutions. When EVs develop to be cost and performance competitive with ICE then they will become the dominant type that regular consumers will buy.
No subsidies, no mandates, no finger in the scale fudging the results.
Will Tesla survive without the subsidies and mandates? Will the Chinese be the dominant manufacturer both in China and with US plants? Will electricity be so cheap with higher demand? Will petrol become cheap with lower demand?
Time will tell.
I agree Neal. Let the economics of a free market lead to the realization of all to what is truly possible and what is emotional hallucinations. I fear there has been insufficient training in science, mathematics and engineering in the general population. There is a widening gulf between what young folks can dream and what can be done with the limited resources.
I own a Hybrid. We DO want to re-charge but heading to South Dakota from Oregon – – well, for long stretches – – we could not find charging stations.
It is a plug-in Hybrid. We love it but want to keep our Miller Cycle micro-4-banger there to allow us to zoom across the desert without worrying about Charging it up.
I would also welcome a back-up Used Honda Civic oil burner, just to run around in when the Battery in our Hybrid goes south.
Hybrids have tiny batteries. With a BEV you could likely go 250 miles between charges instead of 50. But right now, it might still an issue driving where no one lives.
Exxon has a graph showing that world oil production peaked in 2018. I’ve posted the link here a number of times. The graph depicts that production may re-peak by 2032. After that, it’s all downhill for **world** crude oil extraction rates. If you want to argue about that with Exxon, I’ll bring the popcorn.
**The bottom line is that we need to transition away from crude.** How are we, as a world, going to do when we are very dependent on this “Black Gold”?
One way to transition away from crude is to let the price go up. The extent to which voters will reward politicians for $8.00 gasoline and similarly priced heating oil remains to be seen.
20 years ago they were telling us peak oil happened in 1998. These predictions of doom and apocalypse in 10-20 years never happen but always get sheep to fall for it over and over and over
They are now known as “Sheeple.” Completely compliant with what their Masters tell them.
Yeah, except that even the Largest OIL producers are going electric too.
EVs are and have been the dominant New Vehicle Sales in Norway 90% of all new vehicles sold. They sell a TON of OIL.
The Saudis are investing heavily in everything OUTSIDE of OIL. Especially Building EV and Battery Factories and know they’ve got Less than ten years before EVs overtake ICE in New Vehicle Sales.
Only about Twenty Years before nearly ALL New Vehicles Sold in Advanced Economies (the Three Largest Auto Markets) are EVs.
OIL won’t “run out” because the Ground Transportation source of energy will rapidly switch to EVs. It’s already occurring in China / Asia and Europe and the US is just a fraction of those two Markets together. OPEC+ will keep restricting output to keep the prices higher and Gas prices will continue to stay high or go higher.
Once Ground Transportation goes Electric though, the OIL usage will continue to shrink as fuel oil and other distillates are replaced.
So ICE drivers will still pay higher prices than needed.
Depends on how you look at it: Compared to the 90s, the cost of extracting a marginal barrel is a lot higher. Oil as “cheap” energy, peaked a good while ago.
Gas, mainly due to more complicated transport, can still be cheap. In or around producing regions. Elsewhere, less so. Expanding LNG infrastructure promises to even things out a bit. But, again, at a high cost.
Coal is the only fossil fuel which still remains plentiful and easy enough to be cheap for the foreseeable future. But burning it to the cleanliness standards that gas and oil have made 1st worlders, even once-were-first-worlders…, accustomed to, renders even that not-so cheap anymore. And that’s even without considering the current CO2 scare.
Beyond that, even Uranium isn’t that obviously plentiful anymore, either.
The issue of impending resource shortages, is systemic: The industrial revolution made the planet rather small. Every nook and cranny has already been explored. And everything of value which was found, has already been dug up, burned and spent. That’s a bit of an exaggeration, but there are no more Americas full of Gold to discover anymore.
The grandparents and parents of those hated Boomers already found all economically available resources. Then handed it to their grandkids/kids, the Boomers. Who, summarily burned it on sex, drugs and rock’n roll. After all, why not, when everything was made available to them in seemingly infinite quantities, for darned near free? Ensuring that what’s left, is increasingly just a hangover starring back at us from a planet full of booze bottles with the contents already drank.
The Sun provides more Energy to the surface of the earth in a single Day than ALL Fossil Fuels burned in a year.
The % of this energy that needs to be captured and stored is very small. The rooftop area on residential and commercial property alone is going to provide a huge portion of the energy needed. Battery Storage during peak sunshine and wind will make up another huge portion.
The recycling of battery materials means that the “never-ending cycle of burning” with Fossil Fuels eventually comes to an end.
Cheers!
Your strength is as the strength of ten because your heart is pure.
“The Sun provides more Energy to the surface of the earth in a single Day than ALL Fossil Fuels burned in a year.”
It’s been doing that for billions of years. Life has long since adapted to it, and are making use of it. The sun didn’t stop shining once fossil fuels were discovered.
The increase in wealth accruing from industry, largely stems from the ADDITIONAL bounty derived from burning fossil, and nuclear, fuels. ON TOP of the eternal base load provided by the sun.
Sure, life will always work towards improving the efficiency with which it makes use of the energy available to it. More efficient combustion. Arranging materials into marginally more efficient panels, or simply growing taller as trees have done, to capture more of what the sun provides. But all those have been going on for ever as well. The low hanging fruit has been picked eons ago.
The big-jumps-in-a-short-time up in wealth, have all come from from major, previously entirely unknown discoveries: Fire, coal, boats and sail, India, China, Steam engines, the Americas, Oil, Electricity, Aviation, Nuclear, transistors/ICs……
With the earth, at least the crust, already “fully” explored: Aside from possibly “cold” fusion, there’s still a big space out there. As well as a resource rich planetary core. And billions of years in which to figure out how to exploit either. Ditto possibly other, currently unimagined, revolutionary advances.
After all, it’s not THAT long ago that The Americas weren’t even dreamed of. Then, all it took was the blink that is a few thousand years, before sailing ships, optics and astronomy got us there. One day, perhaps fusion powered space ships (or deep earth borers…) will discover undreamed of amounts of Gold somewhere else.
As is the case for everything, though, returns from “discovering” are diminishing as well. Such that future blinks will likely take longer than what it took stone agers to get to America worthy sailing ships. But again, we’ve got billions of years. That’s a long time in which to stack babysteps on top of eachther.
Yeah, nice though…but that’s CLEARLY not how Science or Math or Engineering works.
Change ACCELERATES…NOT slows. Compute, Storage, Speed of Calculations, Energy Production, Energy Storage, etc. grow Exponentially.
We can now launch more rockets & payload tonnage to Orbit Each YEAR, as we did in the history of Man. That rate is also accelerating…AND rapidly reusable rockets means that it will continue to do so.
We have more Compute Power than ever in existence coming on line each YEAR than in the history of man.
We’re able so solve problems in seconds that took decades or centuries in the “Step Ups” that you mentioned.
NO the “Crust” has not been “Fully Explored” we barely scratch the surface. Most wells are only a few thousand feet deep. The Deepest is about 40K feet and that’s one of a kind. The Crust is about 211,000 feet thick +/- (aka 40 miles-ish). We know almost jack about the bottom of the Ocean…which coincidentally covers about Two Thirds of the Planet.
On top of that. We really only started any significant scale of Solar in the last two decades. With the most recent 5 years being more than all of the Solar deployed previously.
Grid Battery Storage only became “significant” in the last half a decade.
In Less time than it took to get a colony establish in “The Americas”, Smartphones circled the earth and now Billions of have Complex Computer Systems in their hands with a little fruit on the back (or android robot inside).
No my friend, it takes only weeks, months or a few years for a “Major Step Change” and they’re coming in nearly every industry and business. Yeah “Cold Fusion” is probably not happening anytime soon…nor is Hydrogen as a valid energy source…it’s not a good choice because neither are needed. Solar + Battery will be more than 50% of the Power Production in a couple decades. Cleaner, Less Waste, Less Noise, No Refining, No Burning Needed.
PS, we don’t actually have “Billions” of years…the Sun makes us WAY uninhabitable here on Earth, Well before it wipes of the atmosphere or boils the oceans or other cool apocalyptic scenes like that 4 Billion years from now. 😉
Fortunately, we don’t need anywhere close to that time.
Pretty accurate.
The rock-n-roll, drugs and sex was indeed pretty great.
Popular music was much better before hip-hop (if you can call that music).
I can’t say anything about rap, I can’t understand how it ever got any airplay.
Yup, we have dug up and burned most of it, except the coal.
But hey, the kids have cellphones with games on them to keep them occupied.
What’s nice about this bill is it allows EV research and infrastructure to grow at a pace set by the natural ability of engineers to generate well thought out ideas. There are still many problems to resolve, and bad solutions will cost EVERYONE a lot of money. Let’s see if Senator Chuck Schumer even allows this to be brought up for a vote because Manchin from Western Virginia would give the bill enough votes to pass the Senate. A Democrat Senator from a swing state may also try to increase the odds of getting re-elected by supporting this bill.
When the full war breaks out EV’s will be scrapped for a while. The materials will all have to go to drones.
Let’s hope you’re wrong.
Nonsense. War requires OIL, which is why they like to start so many of them.
Russia will continue to decline as it wastes more and more men, equipment, Armored Vehicles and Ships.
EVs will continue to grow as more and more battery manufacturers are expanding or building Battery Factories and even Lithium Refineries in the US.
It’s gotten to the point I would pay extra for a small sports car with an internal combustion engine and standard transmission.
Ok Boomer.
I mean, if you want to set your money on fire to go slow, that’s your business, I guess.
You are a woke nightmare to we boomers. Your existence makes us worry about the future of the Earth. You will send Diesel equipment in to deep holes to mine for lithium at greater costs overall than simply going with Oil burners. You are a lost impressionable CHILD that would be better off equipped with reasoning abilities than puking what you hear from your press.
I would guess that you are welcoming your next Jab from Pfizer and are wearing a mask sitting all by yourself, smug in your high view of yourself, while abusing us with your drivel, which sounds like an echo of the insantities that Biden spews.
I’m rich and retired, because I don’t do stupid stuff with my money, but thanks.
Great comeback!
I’m a hipster, too –
LOL
YOLO
YMMV
Just bought one myself! 2014 with 24K miles from Florida!
Keep slurping the cool aid little sheep.
I’ll keep paying about 3 cents a mile to drive when I need to drive somewhere, I guess. Enjoy your time in the Jiffy Lube waiting room.
Learn math. Doesn’t include your battery replacement costs extra insurance and extra taxes for EVs. No business case for Ev ownership. Mainly liberal virtue signalers.
Math is no longer required nor encouraged in liberal circles (for obvious reasons).
I did do the math. I’ve got 90% of my battery capacity 6 years in, so I think I’ll be good, thanks. If it’s only good for grocery runs or letting my teenagers run around town in another decade that’s fine.
None of those things are extra costs. My insurance went way down when I sold 2 gas cars and replaced them with tesla’s.
I just did an Allstate online quote for a Tesla S and it more than doubles the cost of insurance compared to an Infiniti QX60.
If only John DeLorean had hired Doc Brown!
You are skimming JUST the surface of your long-term costs.
If you bought a Used Honda CIVIC for, say, $10,000 and drove it another 50,000 care-free miles, your costs of ownership would likely be less than 3 cents a mile.
You need to grow up and be less “woke” because you ability to reason makes you seem like a Child or a Golden retriever.
I’m just a cheapskate, but you do whatever you want. Good luck running that Civic for 50k miles without any maintenance…
A used Honda civic is a total piece of compared to a new tesla. You could buy a $200 used motorcycle and save even more.
Folks in LA like to go to Catalina Island, less than 30 miles off the coast.
I guess the only way to reach it in the mystic EV dream will again be sailboats.
Not too up on current Tech are ya??
There’s ALREADY Electric Ferries operating around the world. So, while I DO love me a good sailboat…Yeah, The Ferries will be EVs too…ferrying EVs across the channel.
Thanks for helping us educate people.
Cheers!
This thread has too much talk about electric vs ‘fossil fuels’ (absurd concept) and not enough discussion of the fake, phony, and fraudulent climate emergency that is causing disagreement.
Nonsense. The ENTIRE post was about EVs / Fossil Fuels (OIL / Gasoline / Diesel) and banning / not banning them.
I don’t give two rats about whether you think there’s a Climate Emergency or not.
1. ICE vehicles, spew out poisonous gases and carcinogenic particles that cause lung disease, respiratory illnesses and cancer. They can also shorten your life (and ALL those around you). They have been polluting the world for 100 years…and it’s time to stop it. Don’t believe me? Go into a garage, shut the door, “Keep Your Motor Runnin’” (as Steppenwolf would say)…fall asleep for a few hours…then NEVER wake up. Why because you DIE from the gases out to the tailpipe. NO need for that with EVs.
2. The CARTEL called OPEC+ is in control of OIL / Gasoline / Diesel Prices because they can restrict (or increase) supply and jack up the prices…or tank the market (and bankrupt smaller suppliers). So we continually get prices jacked up by our good buddies at OPEC+ far beyond the prices that should normalize the market. I have NO interest in allowing Authoritarian Rulers to have control over my transporation. Personal or Business / Commercial. EVs Solve that.
3. Lots of our “Easy Crude” from the thousand of “Fracked Wells” have run out / low and it’s more expensive to get the “Less Easy Crude”. Waste of tons of water…waste of tons of investment. (I don’t really care if people are making scads of money trading OIL / OIL Stocks…but it ain’t helping the earth or our heatlh.)
4. So whether or not you care about “Climate Crisis” or not…OIL is just a crappy way to supply energy because of the health damages…AND controlled by a CARTEL that is NOT at all friendly to the US. DONE!
Biden doesn’t even know what day of the week it is.
He even thinks he is the President, if you can believe that!
This coming from a man that can’t even do the following:
– Ride a bicycle without it tipping over on top of him.
– Walk up a flight of stairs without the risk of falling.
– Walk down a flight of stairs without the risk of falling.
– Walk off a stage without the risk of falling.
– Find his way off of a stage, without an escort.
– Complete a coherent sentence.
– Is a factual serial liar
– ETC.
The List is rather endless and sad, as is his mental capacity and ability to speak. He can barely maneuver through a day of life without an issue of some gravity, and his mind and body demands that he takes weeks off at a time between appearances in public. He is as much a President as my “Pet Rock” is from the 70’s.
Well your “Pet Rock” kicked your Orange Buffoon right in the Nada and took his Lunch Money. Not bad for an Octogenarian that seems a bit slow. And NO I am not a “Dem” or fan of Biden…it’s just hilarious that Orangeman couldn’t just wrangle a Pardon like “Tricky Dicky” did when he got caught at Watergate, and walk off into the Sunset.
As an Independent there’s a majority of the country that is positively embarrassed BOTH parties can’t put up a SINGLE solid, able bodied, non-corrupt, non-nepotism seeking person for President. C’mon Man! Be Better Dems & Reps!
I have to ask my wife, too, when taking the meds that I must use to remain alive.
This vote reminds me of a well known verse:
“Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow / Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,”
“Life is a tale / told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, / signifying
nothing”
This is the same nonsense that is spewed by the Big OIL Bulls.
Oil is spiking to over $100 because OPEC+ controls the Price of Oil.
As OIL Prices spike, so will gasoline prices.
As gasoline prices spike, Demand for Massive Sizes Gasoline and Diesel Vehicles will continue to plummet. (BAD for Big 3 Auto)
Demand for EVs will CONTINUE to rise at high percentage rates. The number of EVs sold Doubling every year or two in the US…just like it’s been doing the previous decade in nearly all Developed Countries. The US is just about 5 to 7 years behind the rest of the developed world in EV distribution.
By the time 2035 gets here, no one will need to ban ICE vehicles. They will have naturally self-destructed. The OIL Barons in OPEC+ will have continued to limit production, jack up prices and soak anyone foolish enough to stick with ICE vehicles.
But the transition is already underway away from ICE and as more and more EV Plants, Battery Factories, Battery Storage Facilities continue to expand and grow their capabilities, FAR more and more EVs at lower prices will be manufactured here in the US every year.
Like it or not, Tesla and other EV makers are growing rapidly and the Big Three Automakers are heading downhill.
As that happens, the biggest ICE manufacturers are forced to switch or cede markets to those who are making EVs profitably.
Cheers!
“Make EV’s Profitably”. You’re joking, right? Tesla’s EV business model to me looks to be the grift of carbon credits…a fake government created market. Everything about the EV market is driven by this fakery.
Tell me you don’t know how to read an Income Statement or Annual / Quarterly Report…without telling me.
Tesla became profitable even AFTER they ran out of Government Credits for a few years because they sold more than 200K vehicles.
While they do get some payments from ICE manufacturers, who can’t make enough EVs / create good enough fleet Fuel / Emissions standards to avoid penalties, they make WAY more profits off their ever growing number of vehicles sold each year. So drop the Fossil Fuels FUD and learn to read a report. In fact, Tesla would probably dominate more if there were NO tax credits because few legacy automakers could compete.
But when you’re done being angry with an AMERICAN car company that has the FOUR models “Made in America” with the MOST American % of components and workers…
…then maybe you should get angry about something that has REAL things to be angry about.
In the meantime, Tesla is expanding the largest AMERICAN Automotive Factory in the country, hiring more employees and paying them well AND including Stock Ownership, even for rank and file employees.
Don’t like American Businesses??
Then that explains a lot.
I’ll consider buying an EV when the probability of it’s battery not becoming an inferno in my garage becomes a lot lower.
DONE! LFP batteries removed that issue. What color Tesla do ya want???
Also, the complete and utter nonsense pretending that ICE vehicles don’t catch on FIRE?!? Almost 200,0000 ICE vehicles catch on fire Per Year.
That’s Hundreds of THOUSANDS of ICE vehicles BURN…
EVERY.
SINGLE.
YEAR.
Hint the C in ICE stands for COMBUSTION.
ICE vehicles are an Order of Magnitude more likely to catch on fire than a BEV.
Cheers!
If you did your homework, you’d find from the National Highway Traffic Administration the following about EV, ICE , and Hybrid car fires and as published in this reference:
(Ref: link to carsdover.com)
Per 100,000 vehicles:
EV – 25.1
ICE – 1529.9
Hybrid – 3474.5
I’m getting the sense that people voting here are NOT doing their homework but relying on info from various media sources.
Will they still be driving 1955 Chevys in Cuba is the real question? You know, ‘sanctions’.
You seem to be cheering for, or reminding us of, the terrible impact that mining for more Copper, Lithium and so on when it comes to supporting the EV revolution.
In the meantime, we earthly mortals, not yet ascended to the mass insanity of your love of EV’s, are still having to drive Oil burners because they are affordable, there are Fuel stations everywhere, and we can simply go about our businesses. You are “awakened” to an alternative view of reality that makes you seem to be an addict.
“NAH, these EV’s will work” as you line up the needle for another injection of nonsense.
The Fossil Fuels industry is the Dirtiest, Most Destructive, “Mining and Extraction and Refining” businesses EVER created in the History of Man. Bar None. It’s not even close. And the insanity of it is that it NEVER ENDS because you BURN everything you extract. Much of it wasted.
Pretty much every house, residential dwellings, businesses, shopping centers, etc., etc. ALL have Electricity run to them.
Most people who drive EVs don’t even have to GO to a gas station on a weekly basis because they are already charged up at home or work or the grocery stores, etc.
They can charge at home or other places, even if it’s a 110 or 240V.
There’s plenty of people driving used EVs and doing just fine,
OPEC+ owns your butt if you drive an ICE OIL Burner and jacks up OIL / Gas Prices pretty much at will. The BIG OIL US Oil Majors just watch and cackle with delight as they print more money every time the Saudis / OPEC+ cut OIL Production.
BIG Auto was complicit in this for decades, so was the Politicians that BIG OIL paid Fat Campaign financing “Bribes” through SuperPACs.
Time to get off the BIG OIL Addiction for nearly all Ground Transportation.
The guys who buy pickups for Fleets and Rental Car Companies with their fleets and Semi’s for Trucking already know where this is going. They’ve already done the math and are buying them as fast as they can get hold of them.
I know what I am actually talking about and anyone, only has to look at Norway or China or Europe to see how fast the EV adoption is growing. It’s growing faster in the US, we’re merely a few years behind, even though the most profitable EV company in the world is US based.
Rockefeller Foundation is one the big promoters of carbon-based climate change hysteria. Anything suspect about that?
The kids atoning for the sins of the Great Grandfathers.
Rockefeller gave a few shekels to a Foundation to make up for the $$$ TRILLIONS of Dollars that his companies have pillaged from numerous countries, peoples and governments, through every means and possible. NOT a “Good Guy” in any way but VERY ruthlessly efficient at growing his wealth and crushing the competition.
It’s a pittance that the RF is in charge of, relative to the absolute value of the companies…but “better than a sharp stick in the eye.” No way they can clean up the entire environmental / political / global disaster that Standard OIL and its ilk created but “baby steps” I guess.
Reasonable to watch them like a hawk…but their RF chief is a Dr. who is concerned with Feeding the Hungry.
Carnegie built massive numbers of Libraries and Universities and Arts Theaters, so just because the guy is a Robber Baron, doesn’t mean that everything that they do is bad.
Cheers!
Sorry.. not buying the whitewash.
What really goes on when big oil interests are pushing the climate agenda?
“The Fossil Fuels industry is the Dirtiest, Most Destructive, “Mining and Extraction and Refining” businesses EVER created in the History of Man. Bar None. It’s not even close.”
Please dont read the following links then, or youll really be in a tiff as countries are ramping up fossil fuel use to enable renewable energy.
link to turbulenttimes.co.uk
“Highlighted in the IEA press release accompanying its update, is the rather startling (to some) fact that global coal consumption climbed to a new all-time high in 2022 and will stay near that record level this year.
Coal consumption in 2022 rose by 3.3 percent to 8.3 billion tonnes, setting a new record.”The rise in the industrial use of coal was very much a feature of the Indonesian market, with recent reports (such as this one) telling us that the so-called “captive coal plants” will have a combined capacity of 13 GW, accounting for more than two-thirds of the 18.8 GW of new coal power in the pipeline.
“The irony, as I have already observed is that most of the plants feed the nickel, cobalt and aluminium smelters that the government is promoting in an effort to turn Indonesia into a manufacturing hub for “green” electric vehicles (EVs) and batteries.”
Swedish government faces backlash after slashing climate budget
https://www.theguardian.com…
Don’t kid yourself.
CHINA, by far is the MAJOR reason that Coal is increasing, even at a slower rate of growth, they are the largest BY FAR reason for the increase in Coal.
That large of a country, at that large of a growth rate, means that they need ALL types of Energy to Increase.
Coal, Nuclear, Solar, Wind, Geothermal, Gas, OIL, etc.
They far dwarf Indonesia. India is also growing fast and they will continue to add coal and OIL (and Solar, etc.) for the next decade and again, their economy is much larger than Indonesia.
However, China is the leader in the number of new EVs, By Far. They also export more EVs than any other country. This will eventually cause a crash in the amount of OIL / Gasoline needed for Ground Transportation.
As their rate approaches 50% of new vehicles as EVs, they basically force the Shutdown of ICE vehicles in China within the following 5 years, which any Legacy ICE manufacturers won’t have enough scale anymore to remain profitable ICE business in China.