How the Fed Messes With People’s Lives From a Mortgage Rate Perspective

Mortgage rates courtesy of Mortgage News Daily.

Mortgage Rate Notes

  • Two years ago, the average mortgage rate was 2.83 percent. 
  • On October 20, 2022, mortgage rates hit 7.37 percent, the recent high. 
  • On February 2, 2023, the mortgage rate dipped to 5.99 percent, the lowest rate since September. 
  • As of Friday, February 17, rates are back up to 6.80 percent. 

It is not likely many captured the bottom, but there was ample time to refinance around 3.0 percent. 

Let’s compare monthly payments at 3.0 percent to payments at 6.50 percent on a home costing $500,000 with 20 percent down.

Cost of Mortgage, $400,000 Loan at 3.0 Percent

Cost of Mortgage, $400,000 Loan at 6.5 Percent

The above charts are courtesy of the Mortgage News Daily Mortgage Calculator

Monthly Payments and Annual Payments 

  • At 3.0 Percent: $1,966 ($23,592 annually)
  • At 6.5 Percent: $2,808 ($33,696 annually)

Although home prices have peaked, it’s actually much worse because that same house cost much more in 2023 than in early 2021.

Case-Shiller Home Price Index

Case-Shiller home price data via St. Louis Fed, chart by Mish

National Home Price Index Recent vs 2021

  • November 2022: 466.4
  • February 2021: 375.5

Case-Shiller is both stale and lagging. Let’s assume the index now is actually 425.5 (a rise of 50 points, or 13.32 percent from February 2021)

That means a home that cost $500,000 today would have cost about $433,000 in early 2021. Let’s update the comparison at a 3.0 percent interest rate with 20 percent down.

At 20 percent down the mortgage would have been $346,000. 

Cost of Mortgage, $346,000 Loan at 3.0 Percent

Monthly Payments and Annual Payments, Same House, Now vs Early 2021

  • At 3.0 Percent: $1,740 ($20,880 annually)
  • At 6.5 Percent: $2,808 ($33,696 annually)

In addition, the 2021 buyer would have another $13,400 in their pocket due to a smaller down payment. 

How the Fed Messes With People’s Lives 

  1. The Fed’s decade’s-long QE programs artificially lowered mortgage rates. This made huge winners out of anyone who already had a house and could refinance at a much lower rate.
  2. Anyone who did refinance then had plenty extra money to spend and they still do. This is an aspect of inflation that has not been discussed.
  3. The cheap money pushed up home prices and the Fed has had minimal luck popping the obvious bubble. Prices are falling, but nowhere near as fast as they rose.
  4. This totally screws new buyers who on the same house now has a monthly mortgage payment of $2,808 vs $1,740 a mere two years ago.
  5. That home was no bargain two years ago as noted by my Case-Shiller chart, but at least it was “affordable” inaccurately assuming bubbles make things affordable. 

Now the Fed has an inflation mess it does not quite know what to do with. 

Fifty Percent Say They Are Worse Off Than a Year Ago

Gallup poll data, chart by Mish

As a result of Fed tinkering, fiscal stimulus, and Biden’s super-inflationary policies, it’s no wonder Fifty Percent Say They Are Worse Off Than a Year Ago

But still, Biden won’t stop.

Biden Begs for More Inflation and Tax Hikes

On February 7, I noted Biden Gives a Well-Delivered SOTU Speech Begging for More Inflation and Tax Hikes

President Biden delivered his State of the Union speech far better than I expected. The problem was content, not delivery.

I counted 25 inflationary ideas in his SOTU speech. It’s just a start. 

Most of those ideas will never get through the House, but don’t discount Biden’s ability to wreak havoc with inflationary executive orders, sanctions, and tariffs.

Expect more nonsense like this: Al Gore and John Kerry Aim to Hijack the World Bank for Climate Agenda.

Powell has his work cut out for him. Much is his own doing, but Biden sure isn’t helping matters.

This post originated at MishTalk.Com.

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Musclechic2001
Musclechic2001
1 year ago
Certainly doesn’t help me at all. I’m a widowed single mom, very motivated buyer forced to leave a blue area in search of a better school and community in a red county of Pennsylvania. Single income means I qualify for a USDA loan, and you all are correct, including myself, hardly anyone has 20% down. If they do, they don’t worry as much about the rates and cost of a house and can get what they want. I’m sitting here looking for a 3br 2bath so my daughter and I don’t have to compete for the bathroom, with a little land to garden and have a few farm animals for self sufficiency sake, and it’s going to cost me around $300k to $350k. I make good money, but the monthly payment scares me. I look at the previous sale history of the homes, and they’ve gone up 50% or even doubled in price from previous sales even just 5 years ago!
JeffD
JeffD
1 year ago
In an ideal world the “right thing” for the Fed to do would be to apologize to the American people for the turmoil caused by their bad decisions (Yes, bad decisions. There is no sugar coating it). Unfortunately, the Fed is a “professional” institution that can’t admit it made big mistakes.
Going forward, the Fed can make up for their awful mistake by bringing home prices back towards long term trend, so the vast majority of Americans at mid-career and later who had been saving for a home will not be permanently priced out of the market. If, on the other hand, the Fed were to lower rates from where they currently are today without a deep recession, it is a *certainty* that home prices would explode higher.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
1 year ago
this time it’s different. r/e prices will never plunge ever again. /sarc
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
1 year ago
your real estate analysis is second to none. i’m guessing like most r/e cycles this will be multi year draw downs. a damn good thing, too. will be the 3rd major cycle i’ve traded in r/e over the past 45 years. seems like it’s usually around 8 or 10 years up and 3 or 5 years down. in decades past over the past century it’s gotten much worse in many parts of the globe.
8dots
8dots
1 year ago
Putin is the cause Anna Schwartz cure the symptoms. Confiscating ARAMCO and the oil embargo were the cause, Paul Volcker cured the
symptoms. It worked, because the oil glut lasted two decades.
8dots
8dots
1 year ago
After the Fed Moral Hazard was criticized Lehmen was let go. Lehman moment started an avalanche. Paulson and Bernake built a wall
around the banks and the insurance co that financed the primary banks. Paulson saved GS , but it was too late. The Fed reduced rates, bent them lower, in a narrow band, like bending water hose on a staircase. Rates popped up under the pressure, out of the Fed control. Volatility took over.
Thetenyear
Thetenyear
1 year ago
Many of these types of analysis overlook the impact of rising housing prices on the down payment. Per Mish’s calculation, the down payment is 35-50x the on going monthly payments. For me and many others, it is really difficult to scrape together the funds for a 20% down payment. Now you have to come up with an additional $13,400 more than you did just two years ago.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
1 year ago
Reply to  Thetenyear
Median home price 6x median household income.
No Way No How can home prices remain elevated at current rates.
Prices will drop. Hard.
EndTheFed
EndTheFed
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
When? Bears have been saying this forever. What is going to happen that hasn’t already? Mortgage rates have freakin’ doubled and prices have hardly budged.
Like a few other commentors have mentioned, prices are going to be even stickier-than-usual this time around. Homeowners will stay put with their ultra-low rates. If they do need to move, the properties can easily be rented to cash-flow positive, again, because of ultra low mortgage rates for so long. The only motivated sellers that I can imagine are the children of boomers who might inherit a house and want fast cash. But even then, it will only take a small percentage discount to incite a bidding war.
Not to mention gimmicks like ARM’s, homebuilders/sellers buying down rates, potentially introducing 40 year mortgages, etc. Unlike 2009-2008, RE has become too big to fail.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
1 year ago
Reply to  EndTheFed
I agree 100%. The slowdown in sales is due to 97% of the market being able to sit on their houses & wait out selling. They’re under no pressure to sell. No recession, no meaningful job loses. 1st time unemployment claims have been sub 200K for 5 weeks now and unemployment is at 3.4%. As an aside, Mish bemoans how most of the jobs being created are part-time & 2nd jobs. With such an ultra low unemployment rate, exactly how many real good paying, full-time jobs does he think are going to get created in such an environment. Not many.
ARMs, buydown, 5/3/1 mortgages, etc are all giving buyers in the last 12 months at least 3-5 years of cushion to get their houses re-financed. And, I totally agree with your last comment, especially since 60% of the government mortgages are owned by the Fed. The most important unanswered question is whether or not Congress trots out rent & mortgage relief once a significant enough recession hits.
THAT’S WHAT MATTERS. Will the market at some point in the next 3 years or so be given a chance to sort out high home prices.
My guess is an emphatic NO! TOO BIG TO FAIL along with this MMT-based management of our economy that’s being going on since 2008.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
1 year ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
“The slowdown in sales is due to 97% of the market being able to sit on their houses & wait out selling. They’re under no pressure to sell.”
Really?
Where did you pull the 97% number from ?? …
Anyways, houses are priced on the margin (like most asset classes).
Builders are / will be motivated sellers.
Investor REITS are / will be motivated sellers (see Blackstone gating investors).
The top 10 percenters who got into STRs (short term rentals) in a big way will be motivated sellers as they seek to cut their losses as Airbnb fad fades to black.
This will drag housing lower leading to vicious cycle trapping ever more underwater.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
1 year ago
Reply to  EndTheFed
“When? Bears have been saying this forever. What is going to happen that hasn’t already? Mortgage rates have freakin’ doubled and prices have hardly budged.”
You must be < 40. The economy is a supertanker …. takes time to turn / stop. Back in 2006 it was obvious (to me) housing would go down hard … at SOME point. Took almost 2 years.
The fuse has been lit.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
56, and it’s not nearly as obvious this time around. There are not the quantity of bad mortgages this time around. And, I’m not expecting a recession anytime this year. Like 2006 – 2008, I think ’24 is when inflation, consumer credit & corporate earnings collide into a recession.
8dots
8dots
1 year ago
In 1913 the Fed was born. It’s main assets were REAL GOODS 90days promissory note. President Wilson forced the Fed to finance WWI with
Liberty Bonds. In 1920’s the REAL GOODS exchange was closed to punish Germany. German co couldn’t finance their operation and workers. In 1930’s US co couldn’t finance their workers. Hungary and Austria gov bonds became worthless. Credit Anstalt was insolvent in 1925.
Portlander2
Portlander2
1 year ago
Note how the rise in interest rates coincided with the start of the Ukraine war, economic sanctions, and the resultant rise in energy and food prices around the world.
So, our “aid” to Ukraine has taken two forms: direct military and humanitarian assistance (around $100B) and the collateral damage we (and most particularly Europeans) are willing to endure.
The Ukraine war isn’t the sole cause of the inflation, obviously. Stiglitz, after an extensive analysis, said the recent inflation was due not so much to over-stimulative fiscal policy but to both Ukraine and demand/supply chain distortions coming out of the Covid pandemic. This is where I disagree with Mish, who seems to put the blame on excessive stimulus since 2021. Yet several huge Covid stimulus measures and large deficits didn’t cause inflation in 2020.
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  Portlander2
Inflation is always caused by a supply/demand imbalance. if you gave me 100 grand, I would just put in the bank and not buy anything with it. Excess money can increase demand, but it’s not guaranteed to.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Silly boy.
If you don’t need that $100K you should bid on commodity futures and drive prices even higher.
You know, like everyone else.
Thetenyear
Thetenyear
1 year ago
Reply to  Portlander2
All part of Putin’s price hike! I wonder if he will roll back mortgage rates like he did gas prices.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
1 year ago
Reply to  Portlander2

Nobel Laureate Dr.
Milton Friedman famously said: “Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary
phenomenon, in the sense that it is and can be produced only by a more rapid
increase in the quantity of money than in output.”

Only price increases generated by demand,
irrespective of changes in supply, provide evidence of monetary inflation.
There must be an increase in aggregate monetary purchasing power, AD, which can
come about only as a consequence of an increase in the volume and/or
transactions’ velocity of money.

The volume of domestic money flows must expand
sufficiently to push prices up, irrespective of the volume of financial
transactions consummated, the exchange value of the U.S. dollar (“reflected in FX indices and currency pairs”), and
the flow of goods and services into the market economy.

8dots
8dots
1 year ago
Bernanke and Henry Paulson panicked. They caused the crisis. Henry Paulson forced Ken Lewis to buy Countrywide and Merrill Lynch. Warren Buffett grabbed BAC with his claws. Ken Lewis was sacked. Brian Moneyham took over.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
1 year ago
Reply to  8dots
“They caused the crisis.”
A few things. It came out that TARP written much earlier (by Kashkari iirc) and just waiting for the right time. Lehman Bank one of the few who did not participate in LTCM bailout. Coincidentally – just after Lehman went down – Federal Reserve opened discount window to investment banks (which would have saved Lehman).
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
TARP was quickly paid back. The real bailout was the FED buying trash loans from the banks.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
There was Maiden Lane (remnants of Bear Stearns) but it wasn’t huge (but illegal). If you are referring to mbs, the federal reserve bought GSE (garbage) but it was already backed by taxpayer (implicitly).
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
Doesn’t matter the specifics. When the FED buys a trillion of mortgages, it raises the value of all mortgages. the FED propped up the value of banks holdings. And even their purchases of treasuries raises the value of mortgages.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
I still don’t see the trash loans you reference.
Specifics do matter. To me.
Lisa_Hooker
Lisa_Hooker
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
There were no trash loans.
They were marked to “what-was-necessary.”
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
1 year ago
Reply to  8dots
Bankrupt-u-Bernanke conducted 3 separate contractionary monetary policies. First long-term money flows, then short-term money flows, then the payment of interest on interbank demand deposits (which induced nonbank disintermediation (where the size of the nonbanks
shrank by $6.2 trillion dollars, while the banks were unaffected, increasing by
$3.6 trillion dollars).
8dots
8dots
1 year ago
SPX monthly peaked in Mar 2000 @1,552.87. June/July 2007 highs failed to breach 2000 high. SPX tried again in a sling shot from Aug 2007 low.
Oct 2007 was an UT, but closed @1,549.38 < Mar 2000 high. That was done by wall street, not the Fed. SPX was busted by a Lazer coming from Aug 2004 to July 2006 lows // parallel line from Dec 2004 high. May 2008 was a thud. Mar 2009 was a spring. Bernanke out, but
this Lazer is on. It blocked Jan 2018, Feb 2020 highs and it blew up SPX in 2022. Since May 2022 the Lazer bent SPX will. Aug 2022 was a thud. SPX is pumping muscles to reach/ breach Jan high in a sling shot, after a spring…
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
1 year ago
Reply to  8dots
Money flows bottomed in Oct. 2002 and March 2009.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
1 year ago

According to
Corwin D. Edwards, professor of economics,

[Edwards attended Oxford University
in England on a Rhodes scholarship and earned a doctorate in economics at
Cornell University. He spent a year teaching at Cambridge University in England
in 1932. He taught at New York University in 1954, the Chicago School from
1955-1963, the University of Virginia, and the University of Oregon from 1963-1971.]
the U.S. Golden Age in Capitalism was driven by “increased money velocity which financed about two-thirds of a growing GNP,
while the increase in the actual quantity of money has finance only one-third.” In other words, the ratio of the money supply to GNP has fallen.
The thrifts must expeditiously activate savings or lose money. “The Banking
Act of 1933 prohibited the payment of interest by member
banks of the Federal Reserve System on demand deposits and authorized the Federal Reserve Board to set the maximum rates of interest that
member banks could pay on time deposits.” That’s what lead to the U.S.
Golden Age in Capitalism.

During the U.S. Golden Era in Capitalism (not
optimized with 3 recessions), the annual compounded rate of increase in our
means-of-payment money supply was about 2 percent. The nonbanks grew faster
than the commercial banks (which made Citicorp’s Walter Wriston jealous), and
thereby a higher percentage of savings was utilized (through direct and
indirect investment) and was also FSLIC and NCUA insured.

M1’s average
growth was 1.5% each year (from 142.2 to 176.9). CPI inflation averaged 2.5%
during the same period (from 23.7 to 33.1). R-gDp, not optimized, averaged 5.9%
during 1950-1966 (in spite of the 3 recessions).

If you exclude the
Korean War, 1955-1964, the rate of inflation, based on the Consumer Price
Index, increased at an annual rate of 1.4 percent. Unemployment averaged 5.4
percent.

Things ended in 1965. That’s when the commercial
banksters began to outbid the non-banks for loan-funds (resulting in
disintermediation of the thrifts). Money is less
potent than savings. The modeling today is where every dollar of R-gDp is now
financed by money (1.120).

Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
1 year ago
The
commercial banks are credit creators. The non-banks are credit transmitters. Lending/investing by the DFIs expands both the volume and the velocity of new
money. Lending by the NBFIs increases the turnover of existing deposits (a
transfer of ownership), within the commercial banking system.
During the GFC, long-term monetary flows, the proxy for inflation, turned negative. This time around, long-term monetary flows won’t ever turn negative.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
1 year ago
Reply to  Salmo Trutta
What are your monetary flows?
M1 and M2 already turned down.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
Shadow stats uses “Basic M1” (Currency plus Demand Deposits [checking accounts]) held in place in December 2022, at a 52-year high,”
Since currency doesn’t include large transactions, I just use DDs after Powell eliminated reserve requirements (the truistic monetary transmission mechanism). 95% of all demand drafts clear through DDs. The transactions
velocity of money was a statistical stepchild. I.e., virtually all the demand
drafts that were drawn on DFIs, the CUs, S&Ls, etc., cleared through DDs –
except those drawn on MSBs, interbank & the U.S. government. That is all
“new payment methods” clear through transactions’ deposits.
Money is not tight. Long-term money flows are still at all-time highs. That’s still propelling inflation.
The FED doesn’t know a debit from a credit, nor money from mud pie. And Divisia Aggregates double counts:
DivisiaReports.xlsb (centerforfinancialstability.org)

“The user cost price is the marginal utility from holding the asset, not the average or total utility and not its weight.”

Money is not neutral in the short or long term. Money is the measure of liquidity, the yardstick by which the liquidity of all other assets is measured.

see: Toward a More Meaningful Statistical Concept of the Money Supply

The Journal of Finance

Vol. 9, No. 1 (Mar., 1954), pp. 41-48 (8 pages)

The problem is that no money supply figure standing alone is adequate as a guidepost for monetary policy.
Vt is an “independent” exogenous force acting on prices.

“Quantity leads and velocity follows”.

Cit. Dying of Money -By Jens O. Parsson

The rate-of-change in money flows, DDs, peaked in Feb. Obviously, Vt peaked in June and hasn’t yet declined.

Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
1 year ago
Reply to  Salmo Trutta
No one uses the correct distributed lag effect of money flows. They are mathematical constants. That’s how I predicted the flash crash in stocks and bonds.
8dots
8dots
1 year ago
Dr Anna Schwartz : If NATO disintegr… was deleted too.
8dots
8dots
1 year ago
Congress might not throw massive amount of money to save the RE market, the unemployed and Ukraine. In the next recession the cost of interest rates might “unexpectedly” rise and the dollar plunge, due to exogenous causes.
Salmo Trutta
Salmo Trutta
1 year ago
Reply to  8dots
This housing bust is different than the GFC. Bankrupt-u-Bernanke showed you how to lower housing prices. M1 NSA money stock peaked
on 12/2004 @ 1467.7. It didn’t exceed that # until 10/2008 @ 1514.2.

Dec. 2004’s money #s
weren’t exceeded for 4 years. That is the most contractive money policy since
the Great Depression. No, Bankrupt-u-Bernanke “did it again”. The
FED drained required reserves for 29 contiguous months (i.e., the rate of
change was negative, coincident with the top in the Case Shiller Home Price
Index).

Contrariwise, this housing crisis was deliberate. Bernanke, pg. 287 in his book “The Courage to Act”, “Lower long-term rates also tend to
raise asset prices, including house and stock prices, which, by making people
feel wealthier, tends to stimulate consumer spending-the “wealth effect”.
If you increase outside money (increase the supply of loanable funds, lower the price of capital), you raise asset prices (cause a shift/substitution in risk asset categories).
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
1 year ago
Oh! Interesting. So, I post a link to realtor.com refuting the prices have peaked argument, and my post gets deleted.
Nice!
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
1 year ago
Reply to  worleyeoe
MIsh is correct.
I read that Realtor article … they tortured the data (using year over year) to make their point. Quarter over quarter, (most recent) shows median and mean prices down (Q4 over Q3).
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
I’d love to know how you think they tortured the data. Seems pretty clear to me. Prices have been dropping in the really over valued cities but are still going up by small to modest amount across the country. I highly respect Tradingeconomics.com and they show an 8% YoY gain for January 2023:
From where I’m standing, I believe prices have NOT BROADLY become YoY negative. The YoY gains have been cut by 2/3s, but we’re not across the board negative yet.
Matt3
Matt3
1 year ago
In my area, about 40 minutes northeast of Atlanta, they are building everything. Homes, apartments, townhomes, stores, medical, assisted living, hospital expansions and road construction.
From a business perspective, rates aren’t really very high. Current rates won’t limit investment in equipment as the justification isn’t rate sensitive. As an example, we look for a payback period of about 2 1/2 years. The interest rate in our model isn’t much of a factor.
Portlander2
Portlander2
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt3
Good point. Higher interest rates may have less impact on commercial and industrial demand for loans. That sector would seem to be interest-rate-inelastic. As Mish points out, there’s a much higher elasticity (i.e. drop in demand for loans with higher interest rates) for home mortgages. Higher interest rates tend to cause economic downturns, i.e. loss of jobs and incomes. These elasticities will be highest for lower income, lower net worth people.
So, the lives that are most “messed up” by the Fed are lives are poorer and more marginal workers, new entrants to the labor force (e.g. young people) etc. Once laid off, these people can be stuck in the undertow for months or years. It can be traumatic. I wouldn’t be surprised if the 2008-9 GFC was so bad for so many people that it contributed to major emotional and health issues, family breakups etc. These costs of the business cycle are seldom mentioned in the business pages. I’m glad that Mish chose to address this.
I had the misfortune of being stuck in downturns between jobs myself, in 1974 and 1980. I bounced back, but it was still hell. So, the “system” sucks because the distribution of costs and benefits is so unequal.
Just as “war is hell” recessions are hell, too. We should have that firmly in mind when we talk so admiringly of a hawkish fed. As the saying goes, when your neighbor loses a job, it’s a recession; when you lose a job, it’s a depression.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt3
“From a business perspective, rates aren’t really very high.”
Really?
You are ignoring EXISTING debt.
Total business debt $19.77 trillion (corporate portion $12.76 trillion)
Current portion of long term debt coming due in next 12 months (from end of Q3) ~ $1.6 trillion
Matt3
Matt3
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
It doesn’t matter how much debt is coming due. The point was that rates are not high when looking over time. The time period from 2008 to now is the aberration.
$1.6 Trillion coming due – so what? How much excess cash are businesses carrying? They carry excess cash because they have cheap debt that they financed before rates moved up. There is no reason to pay these down now that excess cash can be invested at over 4% risk free.
Balance sheets are in good shape!
You’ll need to look for doom elsewhere.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt3
You can’t be serious.
Have you ever heard of a zombie corporation? They only existed by ever looser financial conditions. And now? With conditions tightening? I think a double digit percentage of S&P500 are zombies. Higher rates will most definitely leave a mark.
“Balance sheets are in good shape!”
Really?
Then prove your statement.
Matt3
Matt3
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
See cooperate debt market. Spreads are pretty narrow. I guess the market is wrong and you are correct. A good opportunity for you to short all of those zombie corporations and make a fortune.
Lots of companies issued bonds – Apple and others just because rates were low and money was close to free. I’m just a small business owner and we took loans as money was cheap. Now I have excess cash and loans at fixed rates under or near the risk free rate. To me, this made sense and our position is pretty good. Maybe I should be worried as loans will eventually mature.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt3
You are missing the point. Spreads are narrow, but the base much higher.
Many businesses – small and large – can’t afford to roll their debt into (much) higher current rates.
Even non zombies (who have pile of debt) will see bottom line take a hit as interest expense escalates.
Christoball
Christoball
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt3
Financial HOCUS POCUS and ABRACADABRA can only keep you going for so long without production, sales and profits. Corporate fixed costs are high, this is why the markets cheer when layoffs occur. Layoffs like cheap money are no substitute for production, sales and profits. Layoffs can also destroy company morale.
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt3
A lot of the borrowed money was used to buy back shares. So going forward earnings will be lower and they won’t be borrowing to buy shares. A double whammy to their stock price.
Matt3
Matt3
1 year ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Inflation fuels earning growth. Sell a $100 of product at 20% margin. Next year same product costs $110. Same margin means higher earnings. Until margins decline, it will not be an issue.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
I made a mistake. The $1.6 trillion for just non durable manufacturing. All manufacturing ~ $ 3trillion. All professional and technical services about $400 billion.
worleyeoe
worleyeoe
1 year ago
“Although home prices have peaked . . . “
That’s factually incorrect. For January 2023 at least, scroll down to the 50 largest cities YoY median prices:
There are only 10 cities with declining YoY prices and several of those are in cities that are severely overpriced. We are NO WHERE NEAR any sort of housing Armageddon. People are smartly pulling their houses from the market, because they’re under no great pressure to sell. It’s that simple.
And, I could care less, at least at this point, what Gallop says about how people feel financially. Everyone has been yammering about a recession for almost a year now, and the job market continues to shine. You bemoan the fact that so many of these new jobs are part-time or second jobs. So what? At 3.4% unemployment, how many great paying, full-time jobs do you think the economy can create? ANSWER: VERY FEW.
Anyone who WANTS a job or two can get them. So for the millionth time, the ONLY THING THAT MATTERS is does Uncle Sam trot out rent & mortgage relief when the next nasty recession arrives?
Let’s see how people feel if unemployment doubles to 7%. Moreover, let’s see the Gallop poll on what consumers, Congress & the Fed expect in terms of rent & mortgage relief when that happens. That’s the ticket!
I’m pretty much done trying to predict if / when a recession will arrive. What matters going forward is how the government reacts in terms of taking away the market’s ability to broadly & significantly cut housing prices via foreclosures. With so many homes backed by the Fed’s MBS holdings, it seems like a guarantee that Congress will throw money at this massive problem rather than letting market forces take care of the business at hand.
8dots
8dots
1 year ago
Your dream house taxes are higher than 0.78%/y. The 3% mortgage actually cost 6%, plus the rest, upfront, for the Queen of the house.
The 6% mortgage actually cost 9%. No recession in 2023/a severe one in 2024.
Avery
Avery
1 year ago
Yes, what appears to be supply really isn’t, for practical purposes.
Using these areas because I am more familiar from both current and historic perspectives.
Go to any real estate site and check single family houses in Milwaukee, Chicago/south burbs, Detroit, Cleveland/East Cleveland. Check < $100,000. Take a look. Most should be land filled and any good ones or nearby good ones likely don’t have much of a market, either. With Chicago/Crook County likely also have outrageous property taxes. These would not be a bargain at half the price with 0% interest rates. A flipper getting materials and labor for free may also be on a fool’s errand.
So the supply is even less than it appears, for now. A few years down the line, as the air bnb collapses, boomers sell second and their estates sell their primary home, and then other people ‘die after a short illness’, then there with be more than enough good supply in decent areas. This will play out gradually.
Caught a recent Bill Holter podcast with a gold guy host (perhaps a Brit) and the host was somewhat taken aback by Bill’s reasoning on slow but sure drop in real estate prices due to owners going to their graves on a faster schedule.
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
1 year ago
The FEDs very existence harms everyone, so this is just yet another way they rob the people. Not really sure if it’s really robbery though since it’s not really money. Just debt numbers on a screen. But the slaves are gonna slave.
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
1 year ago
Reply to  HippyDippy
Most of the plebs never heard of the FED (or other central banks), much less what they’re doing. Turn the discussion to the subject, and they turn it, at best, into discussion about politics. They go to see some movie about Wall Street, made by Hollywood, to learn about economics. WTF?
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
1 year ago
People naturally seek comfort. Understandable from an energy conservation from when we were wild and free point of view, but a disaster for a “civilized” people. It leads to embracing ignorance, as thinking is hard work. Which in turn leads to incompetence and cowardice, as well as all sorts of depravity. We’re all born with unbelievable potential, but most would rather waste their lives as slaves. Too much work to carve out their own destiny. Nietzche was on to something when he spoke of the importance of suffering and will. But slaves would rather rot in their ignorance than work.
vanderlyn
vanderlyn
1 year ago
Reply to  HippyDippy
the ancient romans summed up the peasants needs quite simply, “panem et circenses”. the nitwit employee class in 2023 amerika is just as dumb as a roman slave or peasant worker.
HippyDippy
HippyDippy
1 year ago
Reply to  vanderlyn
Yep. McDonald’s and football is all the freedom they want. They love living life as a spectator. Not enough spine to actually live their lives. They deserve what they get.
xbizo
xbizo
1 year ago
A presentation made by a real estate pro on Friday said that 63% of homeowners in the U.S. have mortgages under 4%. The point being that except for major life events, they aren’t moving. And if the are, they probably convert the house to a rental. Supply just isn’t there.
billybobjr
billybobjr
1 year ago
Reply to  xbizo
Agree single family homes with some land or lots lets say 1/3 acre or more aren’t being built and the ones
out there are owned outright and or have low mortgage rates. There is no supply of these out there
and they just aren’t being built they are in high demand and will continue to be . the progression
is after people spend time in close proximity they crave some space or separation .
ridingwaves
ridingwaves
1 year ago
Reply to  billybobjr
there a a lot of new units hitting the market in next year, there will be plenty of available units to buy a lot cheaper…
Matt3
Matt3
1 year ago
Reply to  ridingwaves
Sure. Materials and labor are higher now than before but somehow the units being built now will be less expensive. I doubt it.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt3
Builders will be VERY motivated to sell.
Under Construction
December 2021 … 266K units
December 2022 … 288K units
Completed
December 2021 … 35K units
December 2022 … 76K units
Jack
Jack
1 year ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
When will the 266k units under construction from Dec 2021 hit the market?
Construction usually takes 9 mths – unless large delays.
ridingwaves
ridingwaves
1 year ago
Reply to  xbizo
yes but those people have life changes in large numbers
TechLover
TechLover
1 year ago
Reply to  xbizo
I am noticing this in Northern NJ. Very few existing homes for sale. It is actually quite shocking.
Some people will be forced to sell due to life events but it will be a small sliver. Unless someone is forced to sell, there is no reason to sell at these interest rates. I suspect many people will convert to rental as demand is decent for rentals.
Foreclosures are extremely low. Much lower than even the 2019 rates. People have quite a bit of equity in homes and rents are generally high so no point in letting go of an owned property to go for renting.
I suspect we will have a year or two period with very low sales volume. The CS index will show a dip but will not have much effect on the economy as transaction volume at those prices will be very low. Then, the market will move either to higher prices with still moderate sales volume or lower prices with a lot of transaction volume. Pressure will build on both sides, sellers who waited for a few years and buyers who are waiting on the sidelines too so the market will move one way or other.
KidHorn
KidHorn
1 year ago
Reply to  TechLover
The same was said in 2006. A recession can quickly change things. More are forced to sell which lowers prices, which forces more to sell since they can no longer refinance. it can snowball quickly.
Esclaro
Esclaro
1 year ago
Reply to  TechLover
No, it won’t be a small sliver depending on the neighborhood. I live in a neighborhood where 80% of the owners are over 65 and every week I see several houses come on the market as their owners die or give up the house.

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