Israel has ordered those in northern Gaza to evacuate and has shut off electricity and water causing a humanitarian crisis. Also, Israel has confirmed killing one Hamas leader and vows to get the rest.
Correction: Sources say that Israel turned back on the water. I think this was a smart move.
The United Nations says Gaza’s dirty water and fuel-starved hospitals further endanger Palestinians bracing for invasion. Two million people are forced to drink dirty water as treatment plants run out of fuel and Israel prepares for ground offensive according to the Wall Street Journal.
Israel Kills Key Hamas Leader as Humanitarian Crisis Grows
The Wall Street Journal reports Israel Kills Key Hamas Leader as Humanitarian Crisis Grows
Thousands of Palestinians in the northern part of the Gaza Strip fled south on Sunday by foot, in cars and on donkey carts as the Israeli military opened a three-hour window of safety during which it vowed not to carry out airstrikes on a central road.
The U.N. said late Saturday that more than two million people in Gaza were forced to drink dirty water after treatment plants ran out of fuel. “It has become a matter of life and death” because of the risk of waterborne diseases, said Philippe Lazzarini, who heads the agency in charge of Palestinian refugees.
Hospitals in Gaza, overrun by the sick and wounded and filled with families looking for safety, are believed to have about 48 hours of fuel to operate backup generators, said the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, another U.N. agency. “The shutdown of generators would place the lives of thousands of patients at immediate risk,” it said.
Israel told civilians they couldn’t come within 2.5 miles of the Lebanese border, where clashes with Hezbollah forces are escalating. The Israeli military also told people within about a mile of the Lebanese border, which is dotted with a number of small rural towns and villages, to stay near shelters.
A diplomatic effort to evacuate U.S. citizens from Gaza faltered Saturday after Egyptian officials said they would only allow foreigners to cross the border if aid could pass in the opposite direction.
Egypt’s refusal, confirmed by three officials and in an announcement on state television, thwarted the latest U.S. push to evacuate any of the 500 or more Americans in Gaza wishing to leave.
Walking Dead
An Israeli airstrike in southern Gaza killed Billal Al Kedra, a Hamas commander responsible for the Kibbutz Nirim massacre, late Saturday, the Israel Defense Forces said Sunday.
The Israeli military said it is preparing to eliminate all Hamas leaders, including Yahya Sinwar, the militant group’s leader in the Gaza Strip. “Mr. Sinwar is a dead man walking,” Lt. Col. Richard Hecht, the IDF’s top international spokesman, said.
Question of the Day
Israel has ordered those in northern Gaza to evacuate and has shut off electricity and water causing a humanitarian crisis. Do you support this?
There are several questions in one: electricity, water, forced evacuation.
I meant to ask about water only. Some may easily support everything but water. But I did offer an out, mixed feelings.
I understand Israel’s rationale. If you shut off the water, people will be forced to evacuate. But all of these actions, especially water, are going to stir resentment.
For Those Who Answer No
Yesterday, I commented, If You Don’t Openly Condemn Hamas, Then Don’t Complain What Happens Next
I propose a new rule in response to the slaughter and rape of innocent teens and other actions by Hamas.
New Rule: If you cannot openly and honestly blast Hamas for these actions, then do not bother complaining about any response by Israel.
You can replace Hamas with any number of terrorist attacks.
I did not mean an actual rule that anyone imposes because that would be impossible. Rather, my post is along the lines of comedian Bill Maher’s “New Rule” blasts although this unfortunately is deadly serious.
This is a travel day for me so I will not be able to respond to questions or approve comments for many hours.
But there is plenty to discuss in this post.
Monday morning Ten year bond rate rising We’re gonna need a bigger war
been a long time reader since the r/e blow up 15 plus years ago. you have a great blog. but you are going to need an ignore feature or it will be a place i won’t want to frequent as much. all blogs, social media and in real life has an ignore feature. i ignore all the idiots i don’t like in real life and online. i’m sure i’ll be ignored and could give a hoot. but it would help greatly. i’m not the only one who requested or suggested this. your r/e stuff is the best. this war time analysis is weak. my take. ron paul said USA and Israel funded hamas to battle with PLO yassir arafat. Bibi literally said so in 2019. see israeli papers. so like the project for the new amerikan century, this tactic of funding brutal people, blew back in the faces of innocent israelis. the israelis dump raw sewage into the fenced in ghetto of gaza. it’s disgusting. like the warsaw ghettos and other brutal caging that human primates do to people they hate throughout history of humans. there are NO good guys in leadership of GAZA or ISRAEL. all evil bastards. also, so amerikans understand, israel is just a pawn of our empire. we’ve been using them for convenience. they also have us by the suicide pact short hairs with much control of our congress and MIC funding…………but alas all empires crumble. ours is. when we withdraw from them, probably due to us being broke, israel is screwed. i pity them. i really do. as i do the palestinians.
I find it shocking that some people can’t seem to see the big picture and immediately revert to comparing Israel to apartheid etc. Just look at the facts. Hamas fired thousands of rockets into Israel, those Rockets had one goal, to kill Israelis. They crossed the border and committed horrible atrocities, filmed the atrocities and than posted the video similar to how ISIS operated. Have you listened to the speeches of the Hamas Leaders? Every speech is about wiping Israel off the map, a complete and total genocide of the Jews. Where have we seen that before? And thansome people question the Israeli response?????
I think they should turn off the electricity and keave it off. They should cycle the water, turn it on for 10 minutes a day. The Palestinian people need to understand that supporting Hamas will do nothing but bring them hardship. If they actually elected leaders that weren’t actively pursuing the annihilation of Israel their lives would most likely improve considerably.
Clearly, this is not a good question because your/my answer can do nothing to alter the situation. A better question might be “why does Gaza rely on Israel for its water?” Unfortunately, that requires thought before answering and people prefer not to do that.
Gaza is essentially a refugee camp set up decades ago and abandoned by the world which has moved on. As ye sow, so shall ye reap.
Mish: Your question trivializes the situation. Wars determine who lives and who dies, not who is humane toward civilians. As you know, in one day in March 1945, after the war had turned in U.S. favor, American bombing of Tokyo killed 100,000 civilians. In February ’45, tens of thousands of civilians were killed in the allied bombing of Dresden. That’s even before the nukes targeting civilians in August. You simply can’t have war without war crimes. Israel’s problem is it is fighting a defensive action against potentially seven Mohammedan adversaries. It lets its enemies set the place and terms of each stage of the conflict. The key question I have, which can’t be answered by polling idiots, is the extent of Israel’s military capability. Assuming Israel is fighting for its life, it would be justified in taking the war to the enemy. But can it hope to do so? Are rational people in Iran worried about their lives? Could Israel, in theory, light up a half-dozen Iranian oil fields and ports, take out Iran’s missile capability, warn that the next round will be a nuclear targeting of Tehran, and have a reasonable hope of dashing the Islamist dreams? I’ve no idea. But it could reach that stage regardless of the “humanitarian crisis” in Gaza, which subject is irrelevant to an Israeli population whose closest neighbors dream of “from the river to the sea,” while a more distant one is run by 6th century metaphysicians who, for the record, own the 9/11 attack on the U.S. (Completely as an aside, when I see people talking about a “free Palestine,” I wonder what their model is? If the word “free” means anything, I don’t know of a free Islamic state–or Arab state–anywhere on this earth.) I’m not going to engage again on this subject. Have a good evening.
not a bad take. but israel is dead meat without US support. that’s the real lifeline. why they spend so much buying our politicians for the US navy. let’s be real. they are just pawns of our empire. when we go they are dead meat. kosher meat, and halal meat. it’s always amazing how similar the enemies are. i live among jews and arabs in brooklyn. it’s the same semitic culture. nonsense shit worshipping the same god, with different prophets and messiahs and wise men………..it’s a cartoon. a deadly serious cartoon.
I am concerned about what Israel is doing to the folks in the Golan Heights and just about no one knows what I’m talking about, or cares.
Why, they are cutting throats and stealing land. Isn’t that what you are supposed to allege?
Nope, just the confiscation of lands and the requiring travel papers if you are not in the tribe.
Their mentor the USA had no qualms doing so.
The campaign against Begrade, Baghdad, Aleppo
All featured deliberate (specialized munitions) to destroy electricity and water
And thereby automatically collapsing sewage & communications
The n@zis in Ukraine also shut off the water (canal) to Donetsk in 2014 (to this day, although Russia has built a new pipeline for water.
Yes, and if the the weather holds warm, and the Israelis do a bit of light general bombing and keep the water off, there’s a good chance that cholera could save them a lot of bombs and money within a few weeks.
The title of your post should be: Do you support a war crime against a civilian population? Because that is exactly what cutting off water is. Even the UN, normally timid on all things Israel, noted this after Israel’s defense minister announced the blockade (while calling Palestinians animals).
Just a test
If you live in a concentration camp, it is your duty to attempt to break out. Israel has kept these people in an outdoor prison for what seems like forever.
@william, your text is perpetuating lies serving the interests of Hamas. In fact, Hamas is responsible for the isolation of Gaza. The people of Gaza are responsible for their poor economics. Some facts:
Concentration camps do NOT allow for population growth. Certainly not at 20x in 75 years.
Gaza has a border with Egypt, too. Egypt keeps the border sealed for years in response to Hamas actions and policies.
Israel has no obligation to supply Gaza with good and services. . Gaza has sufficient water in underground reservoirs. Alas, Hamas neglected investing in infrastructure for the Gaza people.
Israel provided Gazans working visas. Hamas used these visas to infiltrate Israel.
The population of Gaza grew organically from 100K to 2MM in merely 75 years. This is an unprecedented birth rate. Indeed it became crowded as per the Gazan’s choices.
all well and good, but it is israel’s problem. and without US support they’d be pushed to the sea long ago. these batshit crazy abraham religions are kooks. but it is israels problem. amerika supports them, and makes the problem worse it seems. but alas it is israels problem. they’ll be attacked forever and ever unless they change tacts. they are in a much worse situation than many young nations………in that part of globe.
Israel would not exist without the full support of the US and its allies – esp UK.
For me the question isn’t “should Israel stop/start the provision of water from Israel?”
For me the question is, “Should Israel sustain in any way an enemy population living in a territory that’s neither associated nor maintaining relations with Israel?
Israel doesn’t owe them anything but civil relations if possible, which they’ve tried to offer in so many ways but which has not been reciprocated. It’s nuts to sustain enemy neighbors.
Let Egypt and Europe give them all that they need.
I know this is going to sound harsh – but you should be focusing on the economics and not on the humanitarian – both sides have excellent points and to get involved is a minefield and you will lose support.
Netanya is old school Boomer gen, he’s miscalculating the effects of a 2 mil population with 40% children and millions of cell phone camera’s.
Pictures of dead or starving children will flood the internet, Netanya is about to become the next Stalin.
Completely mishandled, he took a sledge hammer to a thumbtack, absolutely no consideration to the collateral.
.
He’s also w psychopathic monster
Correction; 2500 shot in Chicago this year but regardless, it’s happening in many cities in the US. Crime and violence is out of control but you want to debate this situation across the pond with NO IMPACT on your own shitholes. You people are insane (not here) but the US in general. Country is falling apart at the seems but want to solve this conflict…NO. You can’t solve your own problems. You will not solve this one that is for damn sure and your situation will continue to get WORSE focusing on this situation.
I fully support whichever faction supports stopping black on black violence in inner cities. If that is Hamas I support them. If it is Israel then I switch my support. Over 2500 people shot in Chicago alone this month. Better start focusing on your own area of operations instead of those of others. Your country is collapsing around you idiots….meh:
link to heyjackass.com
Absolutely NOT!
They already had water shortages due to Israel AND electricity OFF for up to 18 hours a day!!
Israelis play victim and get their way. They must be STOPPED and the original Balfour agreement enforced UNTIL an international court rules the decision of Palestine unlawful. I am a white Christian with no links to Palestine. STOP ISRAEL STEALING MORE LAND.
No. The fighters will get what water there is, and won’t be any weaker for it.
No water, no electricity, nothing for these savages
Nobody said anything about shutting off water and electricity to the settlers(criminals) Doc
they are vermin and need extermination. is that you adolph?
What %of gaza water actually comes from Israel? It’s not close to 100%
What % of gaza water leaks out of the system because it’s poorly maintained (which Hamas is supposed to take care of)
Hamas has kept their population at subsistence level for close to two decades.
“But all of these actions, especially water, are going to stir resentment.”
Mish, allow me to point out that this statement does not go far enough. Please do not be insulted if I point out that if this were YOUR family, being driven from their Hometown and the neighbors were cutting off your water, power and gunning you down, and you were NOT combatants, you would like revise that statement to:
“But all of these actions, especially water, are going to KILL MY FAMILY, MY FRIENDS and we are not the people causing this War.”
it was a very vile question.
RBW
15October, 2023
No decent human being can support or be silent on what Hamas did in Israel. However, no decent human being can support or be silent as to what Israel is doing to Gaza. Both Hamas and the State of Israel deserve condemnation. This is not about Arabs versus Jews, not about Islam versus Judaism. This is about the Hamas organization versus the State of Israel. This goes beyond the intention to eliminate Hamas.This is about vengeful retaliation of the State of Israel towards the Palestinian people, the vast majority of which are innocent of the crimes committed by Hamas. This is in effect ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians by the State of Israel. There is “no moral equivalence” between the Hamas attacks which killed over 1,000 people in Israel and Israel’s subsequent response.
While Israel had a right to defend itself, its response has been “disproportionate”, with many Palestinian civilians killed. Attacks on civilians are always wrong. They constitute war crimes. There cannot be collective punishment of the entire civilian population in Gaza. Fundamentals like food, fuel, electricity must be allowed for the populace, because there is nowhere for them to go.
The Palestinian and the Israeli leadership needs to act like civilized beings if peace is to be achieved in the region, but that doesn’t seem likely at the moment from either side .All military support to the Palestine region should be immediately halted, and UN peacekeepers should be brought in.
We absolutely cannot allow this situation to continue.
Israel is not attacking civilians. Hamas rockest continue to rain down on Israel – nearly 1,000 per day. The only way to stop this is to bomb the rocket launchers. Hamas knows this so they place the launchers next to apartment buildings, mosques, hospitals and schools. Do you deny Israel the right to defend herself because civilians are in harms way?
To Steve L.
Israel has The Iron Dome to defend itself, without the need to kill innocent men, women, and children.
Additionally it seems that Israel does a pretty good job of pinpointing their intended targets.
The indiscriminate brutal mass killing of Palestinian civilians bespeaks another agenda besides defense.
There you go again. Israel is not targeting civilians. Civilians have been placed in the war zone by Hamas. Hamas is now saying their soldiers did not commit brutal mass killing of Israeli citizens. The Hamas soldiers only captured Israeli soldiers. What happened was once Pali civilians saw the Israeli security fence knocked down, they tagged along behind the Hamas soldiers into Israel and it was the Pali civilians that went on a rampage and raped, burnt and murdered Israeli’s. So, there you are – per Hamas the civilians are military targets. All Hamas needs to do to stop this is return the hostages and stop firing missiles into Israel.
israel should have gone with the plan for a nation in alaska, utah or madagascar or eastern russia…………..the mideast is a rough place with lots of oil and hate that is thousands of years old thanks to the idiotic abrahamic 3 religions that birthed in the area………….go read about the places of world for the jewish state………it’s fascinating reading. now israel is just amerikan empire pawn and bitch. they won’t last 100 years as we are crumbling and turning inward………….with SS and medicare and debt service…………..looking out next 30 years………..i pity the people of israel and palestine. peace and love is good. war and hate is brutal way to go through life.
Somehow “disproportionate response” comes up ONLY when Israel attempts to defend itself. The whole idea in warfare is to inflict disproportionate damage to one’s enemy.
Btw, did you offer Hamas to limit their unprovoked attack to be “proportionate”?
Given that Israel generously supplies Gaza with essential supplies and services, “proportionate” should have been sending it back some goods and thanks!
Two thirds of Gaza residents support Hamas, but there is no way to differentiate Hamas men from non-Hamas men. In fact, any non-Hamas man is potentially a Hamas man in the future. The only way to eliminate Hamas in Gaza is for Israel to kill all men living in Gaza City. Anything less will not stop Hamas. This is Israel’s choice and not our business. The US committed the largest, or second largest, genocide since WWII by attacking Iraq in 2003 — there was no connection between Iraq and 9/11. The US has no history of reacting sensibly to terrorism, so Americans should not be giving Israel “advice” on how to punish terrorists.
wonderful point. pax amerika is an empire of nihilist, arrogant and very ignorant citizens. with no memory or self awareness.
This was Holocaust 2.0 for Jews.
Israel will respond in a way they think will stop future carnage. I don’t see many Arab nations condemning Hamas or wanting Gaza refugees. Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates did condemn Hamas.
In a sane world, Arab nations would HELP Israel eliminate Hamas and Hezbollah.
Cutting off electricity and water is the best way to weaken an enemy before a ground invasion that will come when the weather is good for air strikes.
In 2014, Israel attacked Gaza from the air, killing perhaps 2,000 civilians in response to rocket fire into Israel. Did not solve the Hamas problem.
If Israel wants to destroy Gaza with a nuclear bomb, that is their choice. The nations that surround Israel already hate Jews. Maybe such a bomb would be a deterrent for future attacks on Israel?
I would personally fill Israeli cargo planes with Israeli garbage and dump the garbage on the streets of Gaza until the hostages are freed. If the hostages are already dead, I’d recommend a nuclear bomb.
There is no way to differentiate Hamas members from male civilians in Gaza so killing all males is the only way to eliminate Hamas in Gaza for now.
This is a proxy war between Iran and Israel. Iran is getting away with it (so far).
Your one clueless dude. You get all spun up on one sided TV coverage. Without understanding the history or context you then say stuff that is absolutely evil and stupid.
Make that You’re not Your. But the rest is sum it up nicely.
Complexity is hard. If you pick a side you can get all outraged without having to think about it much.
Israel has the right to defebd itself in any way they beieve will stop the Muslim animals from killing everything that moves inside Israel from babies to omen to pets.
I am well educated, but you are an antisemitic old fool who supports Hamas baby killers.
Killing babies is no big thing.
I’ve heard that it was popular with the Tribe before they emigrated out of Egypt.
Lately most folks seem to be getting stupider, and you can’t fix stupid.
it is one sick question mish posted. like channeling everyone’s inner nazi, mongol, raping and pillaging romans, pol pot, nuke bombing of nagasaki………, and on and on. just amazing. it is like asking the arab world how they felt about last saturdays attacks, should they have killed more, or less. or on 9.11, why only the WTC and Pentagon, why not the eiffel tower and high schools………..should bin laden have turned off all the water ? what’s your take. sick bastard answers to a sick question. pax amerika is blood thirsty for a few generations now. israel is our pawn being played in a very ugly game.
It’s a sign of the times Dick and it’s only going to get worse going forward Better get that shelter installed now and beat the crowds
If only the Israelis had forced the Hamas to wear some kind of symbol stitched onto their clothing.
The war will never end. As long as ideology and religion stands between nation states. Palestinians that live will get revenge in 15 to 25 years. The Israelies will respond. Numbers are numbers so the west will respond to increasing threats. It all comes down to does the world have an interest in stability and order?
The question is – will the US import the Gazans and will tge US face the same fate as Germany? Destroyed from within. A Biden ‘humanitarian’ gesture?
link to westernjournal.com
Germany had great stability and order in 1936.
It is easy for Israel to cut off these services because Israel normally is the only supplier. If Egypt wants to support Gaza, there’s nothing stopping them.
Hamas attackers knew the likely repercussions of attacking the state that supplies all of Gazas services, and the jobs for many Gazans.
Gaza is a small community. Everyone knows who the Hamas are, and chose to accept them being in power.
There are no good guys in this story. The children are innocent. Nobody else has clean hands.
Maybe, just maybe American Jews will learn pushing for strict gun control, like the have in Israel isn’t such a good idea. But a doubt it. Things would have been VERY different in Israel if the government had seen fit to give every citizen age 18-65 an AR15, five 30 round magazines, and a little training – which would only have cost $5-10 billion.
Here, BLM has come out foursquare in support of Hamas. I wonder how many BLM and antifa are watching those Hamas videos and thinking “Man, I’d like to try that here – it looks like FUN!”.
Mish,
That would be a great in-person survey question by you to random people in the vicinity of the Bridgeview, Illinois Menards store on any Friday afternoon.
I do not support Israel’s shutting off food, water and electricity to Gaza.
I am totally in favor of shutting off US aid to Israel.
Me too and peace and love to everybody Alex Godbless
Yes, pray for peace!
I’ll take “a war by any other name” for $400 Alex.
“Do You Support Israel Shutting of Water in Gaza Strip?”
No.
Hamas always has food, water and diesel whenever there’s been a blockade before. They are the last to run out of anything.
Snarky comments aside, this is war. Every single Palestinian in Gaza is fully responsible for raising the generation of young adults who perpetrated last week’s crimes. There are no innocent civilians here. They are all heinous, vile criminals. Furthermore, the key to fixing the misery they brought into themselves is in their hands, the door opens only from inside, they have their God given free will to open it.
No every Israeli who sat back and allowed the holocaust of Palestinians is though Listen to Gabor Mate or Norman Finklestein both Jewish on this subject to educate yourself
Hey Rodrigo snarky my ass Accurate and you know it
Wow! I’d be careful of that type of thinking Rodrigo. If entire populations are guilty for the crimes of some, then we are all guilty. I guess we all need exterminated according to Rodrigo masterful use of logic.
Rodrigo sounds like he’s really a troll frantically typing away in Haifa or Tel Aviv Nobody could actually be that sociopathic
The Gaza strip no longer belongs to Palestinians. Get used to it. This was not a war, it was a cleansing. They knew this was coming long ago and let it happen. Many IDF people have said this publicly. You could not get a cockroach across the monitored zones without being detected immediately yet people are supposed to believe that for 7 hours the Israel command had no idea? People need to stop being so gullible.
They let the bad guys kill some people so that the media could play it all up and that would provide political cover for removing what was essentially the middle eastern trailer park people from the region. If they let the ex-owners come back, all of those people they sacrificed into the hands of the terrorists lost their lives for nothing. Wake up people. It doesn’t matter if the water is off, if the electricity is off, if the air is missing because Israel is now going to occupy those lands. If they let the Palestinians back in to breed more terrorists, there will be more terror in 20 years.
It’s over. I saw it in Bibi’s eyes during his first speech. This was a setup, just like covid, just like 911. It was an inside job.
Correct but it’s still wrong The world shouldn’t allow it but Jeffrey Epstein did his job well blackmailing and thereby controlling the pedofile creeps in our government It’s all very sick but sadly our reality
From the basement of the pizza place?
Captain, I think you are correct. It was intentional and they knew they could count on the lap dog media to play it up. The terror bombings and the shutting off of resources is designed to stampede the people south. Once there, the condition will become so bad that there will be media calls to export them to Europe or the US.
What I find particularly despicable is how US politicians are bending over backwards to kiss Israel’s ass, encourage its war crimes and trying to talk up a broader war with Iran. Who voted for these evil clowns?
I agree it stinks to high heaven that we are asked to believe they had no idea it was going to happen. Of course they knew. The either ignored willfully for political reasons or foolishly believed it was going to be a minor thing.
On the other hand I disagree that they can oust the entire population. The world won’t allow it. It will devolve into a very nasty war with the rest of the Arab states that no one in their right mind wants.
“This was a setup, just like covid, just like 911. It was an inside job.”
Spoken like a true tin hat conspiracy theory nutter.
Well one thing that is crystal clear about 911 is that Israel knew it was going to happen but chose not to tell the US. And then there is the USS Liberty, … With friends like that…
link to odysee.com
Exactly Alex These people who accuse you of being a CS are just lying or stupid 911 and this were both false flags no doubt
“According to T-l, one of the males appeared to be
taking still photographs and video of the other males with the
WTC in the background. All of the males appeared to be jovial in
that they smiled, hugged one another, and gave “high fives.”
(See attached photos) . As the vehicle later left that area, T-l
recorded the license plate as JRJ-13Y. Later that day when T-l f s
spouse returned home, T-l provided the police with the
information pertaining to the males. tS/OC/NF) ( \j\
Another complaint received by FBI-NK revealed a second
eyewitness who reported having observed a white van in the same
parking lot as described by T-l. This eyewitness, however,
observed the van in the parking lot as early as 8:00am on the
morning of the explosions at WTC.”
[Note: Two of the men were known Mossad agents (Paul and Sivan Kurzberg). They were set to record 46 minutes BEFORE the first plane strike. In November 2001 on Israeli TV (search YT for video) they admitted that they were there to, “document the event”.]
Source: FBI Documents Urban Moving Israeli 9/11 Involvement
link to archive.org
Also, the CIA said that Omar Al Bayoumi wasn’t in Saudi intelligence and that he met two of the 9/11 hijackers entirely by chance. In documents declassified last year, the bureau affirmed that Bayoumi was in fact an agent of the Saudi intelligence service who worked with Saudi religious officials and reported to the kingdom’s powerful ambassador in Washington.
Both the Israeli Mossad and the U.S. CIA at least let 9/11 happen on purpose.
Typical uneducated response Richard Wake up to reality I know it may disturb your solitude sorry
Attack the argument, not the person. Name calling is lazy and manipulative.
Israel knows the exact location of Hamas leader, but couldn’t detect an organized incursion of hundreds of fighters which must have been in preparation for months if not longer? Something doesn’t pass the smell test.
It takes resources to track every single person. How well are the illegal immigrants along the southern border of the US being tracked once they arrive? Even the ones caught are not tracked.
Six another crazy comparison The Southern border with Mexico is left open purposely just like the border with Gaza last week People are on the internet who former IDF who tell us they could detect a mouse moving near that border which is the most secure in the world except last week of coarse the cameras were down for maintenance like with Epstein or the Pentagon All bullshit
Max it sure doesn’t just like 911 and the USS Liberty didn’t either Mossad and the CIA are getting more predictable by the day but hey who cares right when there’s Taylor Swift and her new boyfriend
She has a new boyfriend?
I think I may feel sorry for the old boyfriend, but maybe not.
one would have to be a very dumb naive moron to believe, Bibi did NOT know the attack was coming. FFS he was on record saying he wanted to fund them more in 2019. he wanted the attack, so he made the troops stand down. this stuff happens all the time in world history many times per decade world wide. these idiots here who think israel cannot do evil things are just really brainwashed or downright morons. pax amerika is also guilty. we have spooks in gaza just like israel does. we have tons of amerikans in the IDF and share everything with them and them with us. these people are dumbfucks who cannot handle the truth.
It does seem that way….
A better question would be what Israel can do to respond to the attack that would be effective but not bring condemnation upon Israel for causing a humanitarian crisis ? The truth is that Israel will be condemned for any response and course of action it chooses
This is a public relations war as well as a hot war. Targeting civilians is why hamas doesn’t hold the moral high ground. There are standards for conflicts, and as both a practical and ethical manner Israel should follow them.
Obviously neither side does
What’s unfortunate is it does seem like Israel is dropping bombs more judiciously. I think they are averaging less than 1 dead per bomb based on numbers from Hamas itself. You don’t kill that few in that dense an area unless it’s conscious. And then they cut off water which is the opposite of humanitarian. My sympathies lean towards Israel, and I have zero sympathy for Hamas, but that doesn’t mean they should have a blank check.
if they stop raping and killing the hostages they can have water. but they like raping and killing more
Every time I am sick, or have to make a mad dash for the toilet and barely make it; I think of the Jews placed in cattle cars and the extra measure of suffering from sickness, and the soiling of ones pants that occurred.
When Israel asks for mass evacuations, they are figuratively asking the Palestinians to hop in a cattle car and saying all is well.
When Israel turns off the water, they are figuratively asking the Palestinians to get in the showers.
It is apparent that Israel has no Christian values.
Correct. Jews have no Christian values by definition, but they certainly gave Palestinians a chance to evacuate. Christianity split from Judaism based on the idea Christ was the Son of God. Jews only believe Christ lived, but was not the Son of God.
Well there is one difference, they are surround by Arab states that could care for the people or at least let them immigrate to Europe.
The situation is slightly different don’t you think? Comparing this to the holocaust does not work on any level unless you are talking to people that agree with you and no nothing of history.
Agreed on allowing them to migrate to the Arab states…but the Arab states don’t want them. That should tell you something.
As for “immigrating to Europe,” this is a wildly dumb idea. Shipping a bunch of militant, rabid antisemites to western cultures has “disaster” written all over it. Multiculturism only works if it is in controlled bits and dribbles with people willing to assimilate into the culture they settle in. Sending a couple million to Europe is asking for another war in another place.
It will not be many years before people will be flocking to other countries to get out of the heat, lack of water, and no food.
you guys are naive. israel is a pawn of amerika. palestine is a pawn of jordan and arabs and also of israel and amerika. FFS it ain’t checkers. it ain’t chess, it’s GO
So by this logic you are cool with all the illegals streaming across the southern boarder? After all, they and we are Christians so we should happily welcome them.
Pretty sure those other countries have plenty of their own people to worry and care for. Why should they be forced to care for the Palestinians when they already have their own lands?
Also, LOL, Christian values. Look up the Crusades, Jesus!
Outside of Al-Aqsa the propaganda is anti-christian. The Muslims and the Jews were fine for quite some time before the Koran was fabricated. Muslims and Christians on the other hand have quite bit more violent history between them. Bring up Christianity as your narrative and it is instantly surprising that you support the muslim narrative because they are whole against yours and will try to end you too if they get the chance.
The Crusades were not a Christian movement, They were a political church movement or theocracy. Israel was a Horrible Theocracy when Jesus walked the Earth. Western Churches have had theocracies that did not display Christian values. There are non Christian Theocracies even today. Many Evangelical Churches in America do not have Christian values.
Mathew
The Golden Rule
12 “Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets.
13 “You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell[f] is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. 14 But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.
The Tree and Its Fruit
15 “Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. 16 You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. 18 A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. 19 So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. 20 Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions.
21 “Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. 22 On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ 23 But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’
I get what you are saying, it’s pretty idealistic, but OK. I agree the world would be a better place if we could, but what to do when someone tries to kill you nonetheless because you are Christian? Just turn the other cheek I suppose. No need to fight bad, right. You get your eternal reward anyway.
Thanks SAKMAN,
If your life is animated by Jesus, there is usually some solution other than killing others for property acquisition.
If you are animated by Moses it is a little tricky because it is a covenant that requires perfect human hood at all times since Birth. There are no perfect humans, and all fall short of the glory of God. There are no longer any yearly sacrifices in the temple to buy you another year of Grace. Hopes for Salvation are truly non existent with the old covenant. Heaven cannot be hoped for by signing up for the old covenant, so temporal life on Earth is the only promise. Even if the Yearly sacrifices were available they were not redeemable for eternal life, only for a yearly parole, with high recidivism. Temporal life creates desperation, because you only have one chance to get it right, and hardly anybody gets it right. Life has joys and sorrows, victories and defeats, successes and failures for everyone. As the sand in the hour glass goes from top to bottom the chances a find fulfillment in this world grow fewer.
Saul later named Paul who wrote half of the New Testament boasted of being the Hebrew of Hebrews, a Pharisee, strictest obedience to the Law, harshly persecuted the Church, and as for righteousness, he obeyed the law without fault. After years of trying he could no longer count on his own righteousness through obeying the law, and kicking and screaming he finally came to Christ.
There is a third way that probably most of the world is animated by, and that is if they do more good things than bad things they are covered. This belief is prominent among many members of all 3 Abrahamic faiths, though most will deny it. Most importantly this belief does not work.
The story goes that God humbled himself and entered a human body named Jesus, who was perfect and kind and loved everyone. He taught forgiveness, love, charity, and Grace. He was without sin so really could never die. He should have been loved by everyone but was mocked, hated, beat and crucified by those in Government and Religion, who thought that ones position in life should be earned rather than Bestowed. This is basic human nature and is not reserved for that area of the world.
They could not have killed Jesus if they tried because he was without sin and did not have the curse of death. So what does he do????? He lays down his life and takes on the whole sin of the world for all time, and pays the penalty of sin for all. By this he is able to die from crucifixion, by this we are able to live for eternity.
Even if the Gospel is not true, it is a great story to believe, because it is the best story of them all.
“Don’t believe everything you read.”
– the Book of Fred, 3:15
“It is apparent that Israel has no Christian values.”
Israel has Old Testament values.
As usual, the media misreports the issues involving Israel. It is inaccurate to say Israel shut off water and electricity to Gaza – rather, Israel has declined to continue providing Gazans with the free water and free electricity they have been giving them for the past 19 years. This generosity was supposed to be temporary. After unconditionally giving Gaza to the Pals, Israel offered to provide free electricity and water to the territory until the Pals could get their own systems up and running. A few systems were built, eventually reducing Israel’s free electricity gift to roughly 50% of the Pals daily usage. The Pals, after receiving tens of billions in aid (maybe more), did not have enough money left over for power plants. The water situation is even more tragic as Gaza sits on top of a huge Aquifer that could easily provide for all their needs, but they failed to maintain it and ripped out piping used to divert wastewater from potable, to use in the missile making factories.
So, my answer is no. Israel should not have to provide terrorists holding Israeli and American citizens as hostages with free electricity and water.
I agree
Agree
I read the Egyptian papers. Reports are the water is back on in the South. So this will be an incentive to leave the North for water. Then with few civilians remaining north of Wadi Gaza it will mean fewer civilian deaths as Hamas is targeted.
The hard hitting will end in weeks or months. But the Hamas military wing will find its commanders are now dead men walking for the rest of their lives. They should remember what befell the Black September members that were all hunted down after Munich, in some cases it took years to get them but they were got.
Israel shut the water and electricity off? Destroying comms and infrastructure is the first action militaries take in war.
What has Gaza been spending its money on the last 50 years? Clearly not building up basic needs of the citizens and on the genocide of Jews.
Cry me a river, Miss.
I think that Hamas should provide water to the people of Gaza.
Nope, too busy spending all the aid funding they have on planning this attack for two years.
Too bad for them.
Mossad and the CIA planned it with Hamas patsies See the correlation with 911, Reichstag fire, Gulf of Tonkin, Pearl Harbor You people will never wise up We’re being played constantly and nobody will benefit if this escalates believe me It’s the US and NATO in its death throes lashing out in desperation It’s clear as can be
Not sure if this is a serious suggestion, which suggests a lot of tin foil, or a bizarre atttempt at humor. Pearl Habor was a scam? Are you serious?
[[[YES! EMPHATICALLY YES!!!]]] Emphasis added.
Israel is at war for the first time in 50 years. Tell the civilians to head south to Egypt or at least the Sinai Peninsula, which will make fighting the Hamas terrorists who remain in Gaza that much easier. I say loan them 10 B-52s and let them carpet bomb the place.
I say now is the time to start WWIII with FJB in office, so we’re guaranteed to lose. Might as well create the perfect opportunity for China to go in and take Taiwan.
The length to which posters here will cover & apologize for Hamas’ despicable, barbaric actions is just stunning. It’s like they’re part of The Squad all of a sudden and damn proud of it.
Stupid comment of the month Israel created Hamas and all the hatred by locking down a population and “ mowing the lawn” periodically Kids shouldn’t be shot in the head and imprisoned and tortured Research what wonderful people like Norm Finkelstein and Gabor Mate have to say about this
Or the Arabs created modern day Israel using exactly the same logic. When surrounded by vicious animals you had better become one yourself or die.
The foundation for Hamas was created all the way back in May 15, 1948 when a coalition of Arab states attacked Israel, after the Palestinians rejected the Partition Plan for Palestine. And as I’ve already pointed out at least three times in the last couple of days here on MishTalk, TransJordan was created out of 80% of what was historic Palestine. So again, Jordan literally is Palestine, minus Israel.
Stop being a Hamas apologist, Frederick. People will respect you a lot more.
Couldn’t care less what you think Ben
Ditto, you terrorist apologist. Do you even live in the USA?
2 billion Muslims, less than 20 million Jews, who will win a social media propaganda war?
Ad populum all the way baby!
Ben,
I would suggest you take a breath and take some time to listen to this Israeli teenager caught in this disaster. She seems to be very wise for her age. Let’s pray for peace.
link to youtu.be
No need to take a breath, Alex. Very pleased with my exchanges with all of these Hamas, terrorist loving kookoos here on MishTalk.
I’m cheering for the destruction of Hamas. I, of course, didn’t watch the stupid video that you linked, because I’m not into validating Hamas propoganda, even if it’s from some liberal minded Israeli teenager.
Nice try, but keep aligning yourself with the terrorist, a morally bankrupt position.
Ben,
This is what you are cheering and celebrating. Who’s the evil one?
link to youtu.be
Hey Ben why don’t you head south so some migrant can steal your place Moron
You don’t do humor very well, F.
White phosphorous on Gaza ok also?
Not OK whatsoever it’s barbaric beyond my imagination frankly
War is a racket.
The USA may deplete its conventional weapon capacity to Ukraine and best weapons to Israel and so have greater difficulty supplying weapons to Taiwan.
Soon massive numbers of AI drones from China will constitute much of the non-nuclear defense of Brics countries.
China is willing to deplete US-Israeli war capacity and delay the invasion of Taiwan by supporting Iran with some of its best conventional weapons systems.
China can test its weapons against the US systems in Israeli Iran war learning to improve these systems and increasing their value on the international market.
China would be seen as supporting its fellow BRICS members with conventional weapons.
The Ukrainian war experience has vastly improved Russia’s conventional defense.
A war between US proxy Israel and Iran would devastate Iran not China and allow rapid improvement of China’s conventional defense.
US resources spent on Iran war will not be available for Taiwan war.
Other countries oppose the Gaza land grab and will consider joining BRICS defended eventually by China’s conventional weapons.
Later BRICS will develop its own nuclear umbrella supported by nukes.
war is a racket, period. hat tip to you and smedley butler. for the ignorant a 2 time congressional medal of honor recipient. i know a man who served under him.
I dont see what Hamas was trying to accomplish. They knew this would be the last straw for Israel, unless Iran has something up its sleeve in the background. Sunni vs. Shia. Two tribes fighting over the same plot of land — it’s as old as the bible. Both are ridiculous and seem to just want attention, like a couple of kids.
All of the actors in this endless drama are pawns of empires. The history of this particular geographic area is one empire marching over another empire and vice-versa, ad infinitum, with the locals caught in the crossfire. Where empires touch, you do not want to live. 5000 years of history indicate there will be no end to it.
Oh, and turning on the water is a good idea.
Scott it was a false flag like 911 Are you serious
Scott that’s easy for you to say. You aren’t living in Gaza. I suspect your attitude would change if you were.
Alex, if you tried to give a real reply, you’d say something like this. Well, Scott,
Hamas’ goals probably have something to do with this perfect storm:
To take advantage of the massive power vacuum that exists in DC. It’s now widely reported that Hamas & Iran started planning this attack just after FJB’s disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal. FJB could not be a worse, feckless, weak president. In the coming weeks, we’ll find out if some of the American arms left in Afghanistan were used for this despicable terrorist act.
And, it probably has something to do with the move towards several Arab countries normalizing relations with Israel. With Saudi Arabia moving in that direction, this is a great time for Iran to try to create a wedge to keep this from happening.
And more than likely, it’s being coordinated by Russia, China, & Iran. This takes America’s focus off Ukraine. If it goes sideways enough, it certainly opens the door for China to move on Taiwan.
So, Scott, you’re right. At first glance, it doesn’t make much sense, until you zoom out and look at the looming big picture.
But feel free to keep on practicing your ad hominem attacks. Nice job, Alex!
Do they need to actually accomplish anything beyond wanton destruction?
The unemployment rate is 44%.
Roughly 1/3 of the population doesn’t have enough food.
40% of the population is under the age of 15.
What exactly do they have to lose. People with nothing to lose tend to lash out.
On the political front, Saudi Arabia was on the verge of recognizing Israel. That would have been historic. If there is a lot of Palestinian deaths, it could end that possibility for another decade or more which may be part of the reason to do it now.
Just think of it as Indians leaving the reservation going on the warpath, killing and committing atrocities then the settlers attack the reservation with an overwheming advantage in weapons and level & wipe out the reservation. Cowboys & Indians with rockets, tanks, bulldozers and F16s. Balfour Declaration was just a useless piece of paper.
Indeed the conditions in Gaza are poor. However, it is by their own doing.
Gaza population grew through birth from 100K to 2MM in two-and-half generation. This is an unprecedented rate of 20x in merely 75 years.
For comparison, if the world population grew at the same rate we would have 50B people walking the planet. Imaging that.
While the population grew by 20x, the Gaza economy hardly developed. Hamas which is in control for 18 years followed a policy focusing on meeting is genocidal objectives of killing Jews and destroying Israel.
For clarity sake, Hamas stated objectives are killing Jews and destroying Israel.
I would agree with your post; it is sad that so many people ignore facts (the PLO has rejected 4 Israeli offers for a 2 state colution, they — and Hamas and Hezbollah — have stated in their charters that their focus is to destroy the Jewish country: “From the river to the sea.” They are the groups committing war crimes (hiding weapons and fighers in hosptials and private homes, using civilians as human shields and suicide bombers) inviting the retaliation (which any country would take if attacked) and the chattering classes in the US and the EU predictably blame the “true” victim. I don’t know how the Arabs in the Street (Gaza or West Bank) feel, but their leadership perfers to use the tribute from the West and from the UN for weapons and graft and not for infrastructure or jobs.
Hamas intentionally provoked Israel into attacking Gaza. Hamas, Syria, Russia, Lebanon and Iran have an advantage in urban warfare. Iran entered the war yesterday. The war was planned long ago. Iran has surprises waiting in Gaza.
KGB ? Wrong three letter agency Mr Deception
It is quite possible that Hamas wants to destroy the Abraham Peace Accord effort among those nations among other objectives. This would bring in more mid eastern countries to fight against Israel.
Hamas is committed to killing Jews and destroying Israel – as documented in its founding charter documents. Hamas says this publicly and regularly attack Israel civilians deliberately.
Hamas is wrong but so is the IDF Murdering children can never be rationalized Destroying their minds as well
Hamas is wrong for murdering Jews and committing despicable atrocities.
Hamas is wrong for using its own population as human shields in combat zone.
@Frederick, I wonder why you minimize Hamas deliberate attacks on Israel civilians and the atrocities it committed, and why your text neglects to mention Hamas using its own people as Human shields regularly as common practice?!
Why?!
There is a big difference between intentionally murdering children and children being killed in the crossfire. I have read allegations of members of Hamas using children as human shields. I have not heard of any claims of Israeli soldiers doing the same thing.
Well stated
sure pal. israelis don’t commit war crimes. what the hell kind of cartoon world do you live in. war is murder. israel has brutal reservations they dump raw sewage into………all human primates will engage in brutal acts of war “crimes” regardless of uniform of place of birth. FFS have you ever talked to anyone in wars. i personally know a few ww2 vets who outright did some heinous acts that would be considered war crimes in anybody’s court of war crimes.
Hamas stated objectives are the killing of Jews and destruction of Israel. The Oct 7 attack seems to accomplish this pretty well.
What I fail to understand is why Hamas committed despicable atrocities and at a mass scale. This does remind ISIS, fwiw.
Oct7 was not an isolated event. Hamas targets Israel’s civilians on a regular basis. Interestingly, Hamas is using its own people as human shields. Apparently, it does not have much regard for their lives either.
“Two tribes fighting over the same plot of land — it’s as old as the bible.”
Maybe the Bible is part of the problem. God dictated that every soul in the promised land be exterminated. Joshua was punished for refusing to execute a few innocent people.
The Palestinians are being enslaved and slaughtered anyway, might as well fight to the death…
Reminds me of the Warsaw ghetto and the Nazi’s…oh well, we have Holocausts every so often and nobody ever learns.
jWill exactly like the Warsaw ghetto on the Sunshine Coast
It’s the Warsaw Ghetto with a view.
Its the Warsaw ghetto where some residents arm armed, have missiles to fire, and make incursions outside of the ghetto and routinely blow things up!
I guess, on flip side, if Warsaw Ghetto had militants who could do similar things to Nazis, well you would approve right?
You did hear of the Warsaw uprising, the Palestinians are going to fight just like the Jews did, and who can blame them, no one wants to be enslaved and slaughtered…
@Sakman: Misguided or a lie.
The Gaza population had an unprecedented grows of 20x through birth from 100K to 2MM in 75 years (since the founding of Israel). This refutes ANY claims about “ghetto”, “concentration camp”, and other references to the Holocausts.
Gaza used to have open borders with Israel where people and goods crossed freely. Alas, gradually, due to repeated attacks on Israelis the relations soured.
I agree with you?
I’m not sure what I posted that solicited this response, but like most internet “communication” your response seems to be completely random and unrelated to what I wrote following your own inner monologue.
If you think I was calling it a “Ghetto”, read again and put a sarcastic twist on it.
Human nature is on display. The Palestinians aren’t human in Israel’s view. Read up on the Indians and what the government did to them, human nature never changes. Indian massacres were wrong?
Some of you may already know this – Hamas is presently firing rockets at the American Secretary of State.
Trust me, I would shoot him too…and I’m not Palestinian.