When you are caught with your pants down, and there’s an image of it, it’s best not to deny your pants were down.
Department of Defense Shares Classified War Plan Details With Journalist
For the background to repeated lies by Hegseth, please see Department of Defense Shares Classified War Plan Details With Journalist
The most striking aspect is the MAGA denial and hypocrisy.
Hegseth Loses All Credibility
In a statement Wednesday, Hegseth said, “The Atlantic released the so-called ‘war plans’ and those ‘plans’ include: No names. No targets. No locations. No units. No routes. No sources. No methods. And no classified information.”
And so, since the data is not classified, the Atlantic released more details as I said they should do.
CIA chief John Ratcliffe said “My communications, to be clear, in the Signal message group were entirely permissible and lawful and did not include classified information.”
That’s another blatant lie.
Atlantic Magazine Releases More Signal Texts
The Wall Street Journal reports Atlantic Magazine Releases More Signal Texts Where Hegseth Shared Attack Details
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth posted plans for the timing and weapons to be used in a military strike against Houthi militants on a nongovernmental group chat at least two hours before the first bombs were scheduled to drop, according to texts published Wednesday by the Atlantic magazine.
The new messages that were made public by the magazine showed the texts included details about the specific times that F-18s, MQ-9 drones and Tomahawk cruise missiles would be used in the attack and mentions intelligence that an unnamed target of the attacks was at a “known location.”
His texts before the strikes in Yemen, though, included multiple specific details of the looming attack.
In a text entitled “Team Update” on the Signal service, Hegseth wrote that the weather was favorable for the military operation and that “we are a GO for mission launch.”
The text was posted at 11:44 a.m. E.T. on March 15, about 30 minutes before the first U.S. F-18s warplanes that carried out the strikes took off from a U.S. aircraft carrier.
The defense secretary added that “THE FIRST BOMBS WILL DEFINITELY DROP” at 2:15 p.m.
Senior Republicans, who have portrayed the text uproar as an unfortunate mistake but not one that would require criminal investigation or resignations, reacted with more concern after the latest revelations.
“The information as published recently appears to me to be of such a sensitive nature that based on my knowledge, I would have wanted it classified,” said Sen. Roger Wicker (R., Miss.) the chairman of the Armed Services Committee. “If mistakes were made…they should be acknowledged.”
Earlier this month, the Pentagon sent an advisory to all military personnel warning that a “vulnerability” had been identified in Signal and warned against using it for classified information.
Several U.S. military officials said the strike information Hegseth included was secret when he shared it.
Several U.S. military officials said the strike information Hegseth included was secret when he shared it. The officials didn’t say if any action was taken after the attack by Hegseth to formally declassify some or all of the details.
Such information would come from Pentagon planning documents for the operation that are classified, said Mick Mulroy, who served as deputy assistant secretary of defense for the Middle East in the first Trump administration.
War plans prepared by the Pentagon are in most cases written documents outlining how a force conducts an entire conflict at the strategic level, they said. The military also prepares attack plans ahead of strikes like those conducted in Yemen that lay out in detail how the operation will be conducted, including the weapons, timing and specific units involved.
“Both are classified and highly sensitive,” Mulroy said. “One could actually make the argument that attack plans are more sensitive because they are more detailed and specific on time, place, and manner.”
Lie of the Day
On March 25, 2025, I commented Lie of the Day: Administration Denies Sharing Classified Data With a Journalist
I have a simple suggestion.
Since none of this is classified, my simple suggestion is: The Atlantic should release 100 percent of it, with one name redacted.
Then we will see who said what, whether Hegseth is a liar, and whether Ratcliffe is either a liar (or has a bad memory or was sleeping during the meeting).
To protect the one CIA agent mentioned by name, redact that name.
Bear in mind, the text exchange with The Atlantic included the name of a CIA agent directly involved.
Does anyone in their right mind actually believe this is not classified information.
And the texts were on Signal instead of secure government channels. That’s a massive error ion and of itself.
Yet Hegseth attacks The Atlantic instead of admitting huge mistakes. And CIA chief John Ratcliffe says “My communications, to be clear, in the Signal message group were entirely permissible and lawful and did not include classified information.”
Since this information is now fully confirmed as unclassified, I now support full release of all the data, including names.
Judge a Man by What He Does
Imagine the howls from hypocrites if this happened under Biden. The silence is deafening.
A friend of mine repeatedly says “Judge a man by his enemies”.
I suggest we judge a man by his action, competence, and lies.
Thus, I suggest Hegseth and Ratcliffe be fired for incompetence.
Unfortunately, that seems unlikely because Trump values loyalty far more than competence, even when it comes to national security.
I am about ready to require logging in to comment or vote on comments.
There is too much nonsense and I am deleting a lot of garbage.
========================
Unrelated thought: No one has the integrity to admit mistakes. You see it all over Twitter and comments here, “no big deal”.
Irony: They made it a big deal by repeated lies!
This would have blown over if Hegseth simply said, “It was mistake, we will investigate how it happened, and it won’t happen again”.
Do it!
And please break out the up votes from the down votes, instead of adding them together, which is useless.
“And please break out the up votes from the down votes, instead of adding them together, which is useless.”
I like that – Will ask for that now
Why are people down voting that?
It will be interesting to see which comments get a lot of up/down votes even if the sum nets out to 0.
Like the good ole js-kit days !
Run all communications through General Milly Vannili.
I always enter my real email. Please don’t require logging in via Discus or Google or an outside company. I am at heart a non-joiner and have no,social media accounts. I’ll dial down my own wisecrackery.
sir please don’t
I agree with Mish. why not just admit it shouldn’t have happened. I screwed up. We screwed up. Our devices screwed up. This is one thing that won’t happen again. Best words I know to put in; quit acting like democrats! Act like decent conservatives that screwed up and you’d be way better off than denying the screw up!
I could not agree more strongly with your “unrelated thought.” What people want, and deserve from their government is integrity. Integrity is based in truth, and not in a whitewash. If they could get that much right, a lot of things would change for the better.
I don’t think they can get that much right. ☮
“When asked about the Signal chat during remarks at the White House on March 25, Trump said: “A lot of times you find out defects by exactly things like that, but I don’t think it’s something we’re looking forward to using again.
“We may be forced to use it. You may be in a situation where you need speed as opposed to gross safety, and you may be forced to use it, but generally speaking, I think we probably won’t be using it very much.”
The fallout came after Jeffrey Goldberg, editor-in-chief of The Atlantic, alleged that he saw a discussion between Hegseth and other officials take place in a group chat he was added to in the Signal messaging app hours before strikes against Iran-backed Houthi rebels in Yemen ordered by Trump earlier this month.
The National Security Council has since said the text chain Goldberg reported “appears to be authentic” and that it is looking into how a journalist’s number was added to the chain…
When asked about the use of the chat app, Trump said he “wasn’t involved” but only “heard about it.”
“I hear it’s used by a lot of groups,” he said. “It’s used by the media a lot. It’s used by a lot of the military and, I think, successfully, but sometimes somebody can get onto those things.
“That’s one of the prices you pay when you’re not sitting in the Situation Room with no phones on, which is always the best, frankly … the best is to be there.”
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/trump-says-government-likely-wont-be-using-signal-after-atlantic-fallout
From Trump, not Hegseth, which is arguably better. Not perfect, but in comparison to the complete failure of prior administrations to admit mistakes, it is a spectacularly robust apology.
“Classified” was the media buzzword, like “mostly peaceful.” It has been more or less effectively neutered. The challenge in these situations is to balance the critical need to accept responsibility with the media adage “never call attention to your mistakes.”
Now we will watch and see if these people can exhibit a degree of professionalism that justifies their paychecks and their politics.
This reminds me of the old joke about the two diggers are in a big hole whereas digger 2 asks digger 1 why they’re down there digging and the supervisor is up above. Digger 1 takes his shovel and holds it against the wall of the pit and says hit this as hard as you can with your fist. Digger 2 trys this and at the last moment digger 1 pulls the shovel away. Then explains this is why we’re down here. Later during lunch break digger 3 from another hole asks the same question and digger 2 holds the shovel up in front of his face and says hit the shovel as hard as you can.
The difference here being that Pete is digger number 2 not digger number 1. The obvious correlation is that if you originally have no intelligence you can’t be expected to act intelligently.
Great, focus on the use of Signal by group rather than policy.
Agree with VP, why is US hired gun (with unpaid invoice) to protect the interest of Europe. WWII ended 80 years ago.
Regarding Trump and most of his administration: Where in the hell is seal team 6 when you really need them?
Bravo Mish. Heads should roll, clear and simple.
Yea, well. I don’t recall those stereotypical archetypes hot Lips Hillary and Bimbo Bill saying sorry while saying “What difference does it make?”—eg., oval orfice hair pie and bleach bit hard drives with Benghazi deaths involved. But at least Tricky Dick resigned over impeachment an all his president’s men went to jail, unlike Bimbo Bill, Buckaroo Barack, or Hot Sniffs Biden and all his president’s genders. Funny how the Jim Crow party is always exempt.
Meet the new warmongers ….. same as the old warmongers. Ain’t democracy grand ?
P.S. If elections changed anything , they wouldn’t let us “vote”.
I met Hegseth when he was seeking the gop nomination for US Senate in Minnesota. Struck me as an arrogant war monger. I am at the point the only vote I will make at the federal level would be a vote of no confidence.
I belong to a Band in Oregon. We are currently out of town. I decided to send a Group Text to the Five other members announcing my own return so we can begin playing together again.
OUT of the BLUE: I uncover the GROUP NAMES IN THE LIST and all of our Lead Guitarist’s CONTACT LIST was added to our group. Suddenly we are being bombarded with requests: “Please remove me.”
I HAVE NO IDEA why that happened. It is clearly a TEXTING APP ERROR to add numbers automatically. We are all simply deleting ALL of our past texts and that supposedly removes the group numbers for us.
So, I can understand technically (understanding being relative) that numbers can suddenly be added without TRYING to add them.
Compared to Al Gore he is an angel. It’s almost like Chicago, a few months in the Beltway and no one knows the truth. I also remember the great Victoria Nuland who said on a compromised (secure?) line, “Fuck Europe” when the Ukraine Ambassador questioned her choice of new President of Ukraine after she and John McCain on the ground in Kiev led the overthrow of an elected President. How did that work out?
While Hegseth deserves to be fired for incompetence, he shouldn’t be.
Because if he is forced out, Trump will retaliate by picking someone even more unqualified in revenge
Is that possible?
Must have been the switch board operator over at Pentagon who made the error.
I remember when that happened to my family when I was young. Party line was the mode and a person had to be somewhat guarded when talking on the phone.
Here it is 2025 and US Cabinet is still using land lines and plug ins.
yep totally believable. Journalist Goldberg just happened to get plugged into Pentagon party line and just happened to be on the phone when this happened.
Fully understandable now.
Schumer needs wag his finger harder and point in accusation.
PS: Thanks again for supporting @ Donald Trump
signed Breathless in USA
Where are all the posts about protocols employed when logging into a Cabinet level chat line?
Seems to be AWOL.
Now I am certain it was the Pentagon switchboard operator.
After all who else could fit the profile?
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.” ― George Orwell, 1984
Lying about everything has turned out to be an effective strategy for these people, since their supporters either don’t read and/or don’t care. Why should this guy be any different?
BTW, I’m guessing that he’s the first Defense secretary to look like a flat out gangster.
Mish, the reporter is a US citizen who served in the Israeli Defense Forces. He could have served in the US Military but chose to serve in the Israeli Defense Forces and also become a reporter for an Israeli newspaper.
With that being said, there are more Mormons that served in the US Military than Jews despite Jews being a much larger demographic. I can go into more detail if you wish but I think I made my point and I know you have the brain power to figure out the why and the what on the why this happened and for what reasoning. Sir.
I think you need to be more explicit. What has this got to do with things? What logic have you got that makes this guy want to create issues for an administration that is friendly to Israel?
There are more Mormons than Jews in the world total.
There are more Jehovah Witnesses than Jews in the world total.
There are more Seventh Day Adventurers than Jews in the world total.
Each of these groups individualy comprise less than 20 million people who identify as such said group.
Imagine taking down Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Libya, for the sake of Mormons.
First of all, Mormons would not allow it, as they are basically good people who get along with others. Also wherever they live they seem to not try to run the show at others expense.
If Jesus came back today he would be seriously disappointed in those who profess his name and in the next breath encourage the destruction of other peoples lives
Does anyone know if Catturd was also invited to the chat?
Many maggots show up when something dies or is rotten.
Is this a Shakespeare quote?
It’s time for you to put on a skirt Mish!
Our age of narcissism can’t come to a close soon enough. The stupidity of not acknowledging what we all know is worse than the stupid mistake (whether or not it was a mistake has yet to be determined, but let’s run with it this way) in the first place. These guys screwed up. Take your medicine, be a big boy and move on. And possibly learn from the ‘mistake’.
https://babylonbee.com/news/hegseth-kicking-himself-for-not-just-getting-13-soldiers-killed-and-giving-80-billion-in-weapons-to-terrorists
Not humorous at all. The Onion did much better.
Teen Warned Not To Accept Group Chat Invites From National Security Advisors She Doesn’t Knowhttps://theonion.com/teen-warned-not-to-accept-group-chat-invites-from-national-security-advisors-she-doesnt-know/
This is a war crime.
They bombed an apartment block, killing babies, children, and civilians.
Somehow everybody is more concerned with a Signal group with an extra Zionist.
The only reason the Houthi are targeting shipping is because the UN and the world community refuse to do something about the genocide being perpetrated by the Israelis. The US is complicit. When relief was allowed into Gaza, the Houthi stopped.
The war mongers are actually preparing for attacks (?with nukes; without nukes they cannot penetrate Iran’s nuclear facilities) on Iran.
The Houthi are the last moral actor in the world “community” at the moment.
is the joooooooooo in the room with you right now?
What is wrong with you?
I guess I have to improve my sarcasm markers.
You clearly don’t understand the definition of words like “genocide” and further, fail to understand the throwing power words around like “genocide” willy-nilly only serves to cheapen them and make more people inured to their use.
I suggest you ponder this famous quote:
“It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it.”
— Unknown (definitely not Lincoln or Twain)
Ouch … FOX DEI’S (‘Sycophant) hires – unequivocally not merit-based selections. #45 had some awesome very strong merit-based selections in his 1st administration, who provided great reassurance to many concerned moderates. Have a triple double triple with Hegsie …see it from his point of view.
This is what Hillary Clinton calls a nothing burger.
Truthfully, Hillary used her personal server email for personal and non-classified government emails. The FBI went through 13,000 of her emails after a law firm deleted personal emails and only found ten emails that had any indication of being classified. They were not emails that Hillary originated; they were mostly emails that included forwarded emails. I know enough about how classified information is supposed to be handled in government to be dangerous, and I don’t like any of this stuff. Keep government-related communication within the classified email system or non-classified communications within a .gov email system. If they need to text, build a secure government system based on Slack or some other technology that can be used only by authorized users and make sure that it is firewalled from the outside.
1. I don’t believe anything from the FBI with respect to the Clintons.
2. How many Americans were killed or injured as the result of this. None. Biden effed up the Afghan withdrawal and got a lot of Americans killed. Anybody fired for that?
Yes, this was a screw-up, though I’m still not sure what got revealed that threatened national security. In the real world, we make sure that the person in the wrong knows that he or she screwed up. Then we send them right back into action. It is a lesson learned and you can be certain that it won’t happen again.
4,300 Americans were killed in Afghanistan. I hope you’re not only concerned about the last 13. I didn’t vote for Biden, but at least he got us out. How many Americans were killed there during Trump’s
first term when he didn’t get us out? I don’t know the answer, but it’s a lot more than 13.
It’s been a while, but I seem to remember this Afghanistan withdrawal plan was created by Trump, after he lost to Biden. A goodbye kick in the ass for the incoming president. I don’t think trumps hands are clean in this.
Biden got us out? You need to read your history. Trump got us out. Also, Trump told the Taliban leader that if any American was harmed during the American pull out, he would kill him, and then he showed the Taliban leader a picture of the Taliban leader’s house. Trump had the withdrawal all set up, and then your boy got elected and effed up everything. The great irony of it was that your boy’s people came into office and said that the adults are back in charge. No statement has ever been uttered that was farther from the truth
All e-mails sent or received by Sec’y of State while in official capacity are government records that need to be preserved. She knew that, but she was above the rules.
All e-mails to/from .gov addresses are automatically preserved. She instead used a private server and selectively deleted official e-mails sent to/from non-.gov addresses, thus disappearing them from government records illegally.
“I know enough about how classified information is supposed to be handled in government to be dangerous, and I don’t like any of this stuff.”
How so?
Because I have friends, neighbors and relatives who currently work or have worked in this world. I will just leave it at that.
So HC is the person you would look to for guidance in this matter?
Goldberg knew that he was not to be an observer at the meeting, but he stayed in the meeting and obviously took notes. He then published the notes openly for all to see, thus exposing much of the national security information that was discussed. Goldberg knew that the information was ‘sensitive information’ that was not to be released to the general public. Goldberg irresponsibly released sensitive national security to the general public and should be arrested and tried for his theft of National Security information, Goldberg is the guillty party in this incident.
“Goldberg knew that he was not to be an observer at the meeting, but he stayed in the meeting and obviously took notes. He then published the notes openly for all to see, thus exposing much of the national security information that was discussed. Goldberg knew that the information was ‘sensitive information’ that was not to be released to the general public. Goldberg irresponsibly released sensitive national security to the general public and should be arrested and tried for his theft of National Security information, Goldberg is the guilty party in this incident.”
Are you seriously as stupid as you sound?
It implies you believe Hegseth is a liar.
Is the data classified or not?
And please note – There is nothing useful to anyone in the after the fact details – other than the name of a CIA agent – presumably unclassified.
From what I’m hearing Signal is the big issue. Unsecured and out of the reach of FOIA. What we need to know is how often Signal is being used by government officials to stay out side of transparency. Signal is that thing. Talk about deep state!
JG asked the WH if he should post thread. The WH said no, but JG published anyway. Imagine that?
An NSC staffer of Waltz was the one who accidentally added JG to the thread.
So we’re going go to the ends of the earth to make Waltz & Hegseth to look bad or even fire them if you’re HJefferies, instead recognizing that good people can make honest mistakes, which is exactly what this was.
And all that still doesn’t preclude JG from being a partisan, anti-Trump weasel. He would have known extremely quickly that he wasn’t supposed to be on this thread, so he bears a good deal of blame here for not speaking up. All he had to do was post, “Hey, this is JG. Am I supposed to be on this thread?” That’s what an honest person would have done. And I’m fine with Hegseth debating what’s truly classified info in this exact context which is:
JG is an opportunistic hack!
I hate Jeffrey Goldberg, but he did us a service here. We needed to confirm how stupid Hegseth is, and how vulnerable our government officials’ communications are. I think the CIA or – more likely – MI6 hacked Waltz’ phone and replaced the Signal # of someone who was cleared to be part of this conversation with that of Goldberg. They set Waltz up, knowing that Goldberg would go public with it, creating a scandal. Hopefully Trump will figure this out and realize that British Intelligence is not our friend.
Right wingers in our country hate Europe now. Our allies for decades. Now, it’s hate all day long because god-king said so. The European Union gave up religion on a grand scale. Not inclined to magical thinking as America. That pisses off trumps supporters. Europe has managed just fine without constant religious indoctrination. Thing is, our country is walking away from organized religion. That’s a big money making business. So get rid of the DOE and create Christian schools of indoctrination all over the country. Forcing people to attend will be the new way. Mark my words. Here is the thing… I just read an article from the Lexington Herald that says the actual amount of Americans that tend church regularly is 5%. Turns out GPS can identify all the liars that say they are in church, when they are not. That money making machine isn’t going to make that money without big government intervention.
I don’t hate Europe, but we’re smart enough to see the disasterous road that open borders are taking Europe down. Fortunately, we’ve got a new sheriff here in the US, but it’s pretty obvious that Europe is turning tight at an increasing rate.
Nice to see you attacking Christians. Do you hate Jews as well?
Religion has killed more humans than any other issue. I won’t take your challenge on the Jewish folks. I’ve always supported groups that have suffered. You are talking to the wrong person on that.
Europe is not interested in any religion. For centuries they suffered from religious fanaticism. They know the price. America is just looking the price in the eye right now. What will we do?
KISS principle:
Aid for Waltz accidentally puts JG in the thread vs the CIA / MI6 hacks a signal thread.
I’ll go with the former.
When I read this sort of BSIi, and hopefully our elected politicians , realise its time to put distance between ourselves and the US, you guys really have gone off on a tangent, This sort of crap is unworthy.
He’s a reporter…. What don’t you get about the value of being a journalist? Frankly, the billionaire owners of our media generally are not on our side. Goldberg found himself in a classic Woodward and Bernstein moment. It’s a thunderous moment for a journalist. It’s like HOLY SHIT…look at the moment I’m in.
Hi you -2
They lost their minds. They leaked bc they don’t like JD Vance. Investigating Judge
Boasberg in congress will zip the barking/puking dems. Hakeem has no defense.
“Does anyone in their right mind actually believe this is not classified information.”
To the best of my knowledge, this column is not written by someone who held a security clearance or dealt with classified materials. This column is fabulous when dealing with economics and when the author, who is a highly intelligent and well informed person, takes the time to get appropriate background, as with recent constitutional law issues. Classified materials are classified when the official who has the responsibility to classify them does so. There are no laws as to how to do this, nor is there an appeals process. As with every other government process and procedure, it is subject to mistakes and to corruption. Classification is frequently used to provide cover for things government officials don’t want others to know about. There is a mind bending amount of information that is classified for reasons no one would ever be able to identify. And matters of grave national security get bandied about by politicians at times.
Whether or not the information discussed in this article was classified or not comes down to whether it was classified, or not. Period. Whether any given person disagrees with their classification or lack thereof is of no bearing on the initial question. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classified_information
As far as arguing it amounted to some sort of egregious breach of security, the Gulf War was telegraphed in advance to the enemy, step by step, for six months. Sometimes politicians feel they can get a better result by revealing something classified.
The only issue with respect to this event – beyond arguments about why it was published in the first place – is whether the way it was handled was in error. There will always be critiques about such things after the fact. From a military standpoint, it would appear to have been of no consequence. Given the US military is in a state of grave disrepair, has never provided any auditable information, costs far more than militaries that are far more effective, and has outdated and outclassed major weapon systems, I would argue this is all vulgar and petty politics in the face of a potential existential disaster that is deserving of serious attention.
The Pentagon warned them not to use Signal. Seriously. There’s no other argument that works here. It’s not secure. All the words up there☝🏻and you’ve missed the single most important fact. They told themselves not to use Signal and…oops…oh well!
My comment doesn’t say or imply that they made no mistakes. It says the assumption these materials were classified is not a particularly solid one, and it says there is no indication there was any price paid, from a military perspective.
If anyone has something to add with respect to those two points, I’d like to hear it. If people want to argue about whether it was unprofessional or otherwise seriously poor form, that’s not something I would take issue with.
It would be interesting to hear if anyone making arguments is doing so from the perspective of having had a clearance and having had to deal with classified material.
You sound like a retired general.
Agree. And that’s not a compliment.
You sound like you’re calling me out for knowing a great deal more about this topic than you do. Is that the case?
You sound like you’re calling me out for knowing a great deal more about this topic than you do. Is that the case?
Himes told Gabbard that, under the ODNI’s own guidance, “information providing indication or advance warning that the U.S. or its allies are preparing an attack” should be classified as top secret. Gabbard said the information Hegseth disclosed in the chat would fall under the Defense Department’s classification guidance and she was unfamiliar with the department’s specific guidance for classification.
Defense Department’s manual on classification says that “information shall be classified if its unauthorized disclosure could reasonably be expected to cause describable damage to national security.”
an executive order issued by President Barack Obama and retained by President Trump that says information should be classified if “its unauthorized disclosure could reasonably be expected to cause damage to national security, including military plans, weapons systems or operations.”
There is plenty of guidance as to what should be classified and the what I read in the transcript it fis.
Thank you for the specific references, and please see my comment to Mr. Shedlock below.
Are you seriously proposing attack data and names of CIA agents are not or should not be classified?
Then the Atlantic should release everything.
While your question has valid emotional and practical appeal, neither are applicable to the government’s classification procedures.
The call is made by those with authorization to classify, or not. It’s not made by third parties and it is not subject to appeal. These decisions are made all day every day.
If you review decisions made by judges in trial courts from the perspective of having a law degree and having researched the issues in question, you will frequently feel the trial judge has made a mistake. In many such cases, there will be opportunity for appeal.
Classification doesn’t work that way. You may disagree entirely. You certainly will not hear me argue that what they did looked anything more than amateurish, at best.
But the materials are either classified, or not. The discussion is either classified, or not.
It was not classified.
“Defense Department’s manual on classification says that “information shall be classified if its unauthorized disclosure could reasonably be expected to cause describable damage to national security.”…
“[a]n executive order issued by President Barack Obama and retained by President Trump that says information should be classified if “its unauthorized disclosure could reasonably be expected to cause damage to national security, including military plans, weapons systems or operations.”
It didn’t cause any damage. Based on the arguments presented, with which I agree entirely, it would not have been of any concern whether that material was disclosed or not.
This sort of thing happens every day. Those of you who chose not to put on a uniform and serve have a perspective based on what you have seen in the movies and on television. That doesn’t make what happened “professional,” and it certainly should never happen.
But material and information is either classified or not, and on a case by case basis, after the fact, those decisions could be ridiculed all day, every day. And I for one am not so naive as to assume the nature and extent of how it was revealed to the public was for any reason other than to raise empty and pointless political argument after the fact. It worked.
No one has made mention of the enormous amount of information which is classified when nobody can come up with a colorable argument – after the fact – for why it needs to be classified. Once materials are classified, they become extremely difficult to handle and to talk about it. If a contract is classified, and someone has to review it, they either take it with them to the toilet when they have to go, or they have to take it back to the originator and go through procedures and protocol to have it locked up.
You can’t classify everything. Or it becomes a scene from Get Smart involving the Cone of Silence.
So Mr. Shedlock, the point is that neither you nor I nor anyone else here or in the media have any basis for asking the question you are asking. If you want to argue that we just witnessed another performance of the DC clown factory, I’m with you entirely. If you propose the Atlantic should release everything, I have no problem with that. It won’t do the Houthis any good, and that’s really getting at the crux of the matter. Maybe it will provide those who would prefer to return to an entirely corrupt, unaccountable, DEI driven and increasingly ineffective military with some valuable talking points.
Ridiculous! Talk to anyone who works in a secure area in the government and handles “sensitive” top secret information every day in real time. They do not have to be told that the information they work with or are exposed to is classified; they are told to assume it all is classified. I doubt whether Radcliffe or Gabbard would allow CIA analysts or NSA analysts to take such information from the secure building they work in on paper or in digital format. The problem that much of the public does not appreciate when they elect someone like Donald Trump, who then appoints business and entertainment people to high level positions is that these people have a general public level of knowledge of intelligence, classification, conflicts of interest, and what makes a person susceptible to extortion that people who go through almost two years of vetting and education learn before being given a top secret security clearance.
Well said
Please see my comments above. ☮
Is it well said if it is also not true? There was considerable smoke in that comment. And apparently you also have no experience with a security clearance or classified materials.
NASA, DOD, DOE, DOT. All four. Please review my response to Mr. Shedlock, above. I do not think we are in disagreement. There’s no need to make a personal attack.
” The problem that much of the public does not appreciate when they elect someone like Donald Trump, who then appoints business and entertainment people to high level positions is that these people have a general public level of knowledge of intelligence, classification, conflicts of interest, and what makes a person susceptible to extortion that people who go through almost two years of vetting and education learn before being given a top secret security clearance.” That’s quite true. The problem with electing corrupt career politicians is that eventually they put together a massive and corrupt, ineffective government that spends itself into oblivion, at which the empire falls and is overrun by barbarians.
Take you pick. Have a nice day.
Thank you for your service. 😎🍻
“Ridiculous! Talk to anyone who works in a secure area in the government and handles “sensitive” top secret information every day in real time.”
Have you ever worked in the Federal government and held a security clearance?
There are not a lot of Curt Stauffers on the Internet, you know. If you want to complain about Hegseth or Trump not admitting mistakes and not apologizing for them, I think it would be appropriate to avoid any hypocrisy and apologize to me for your comment above. I have done quite a bit of this sort of work, and at one point I received a medal for it. You have not, and your record is not an enviable one.
Hegseth never had any credibility to lose. He is a drunkard and a philanderer. He’s also a former Fox News team member. There are a few Fox people with credibility but he is not one of them.
Time to cut bait on Hegseth, Trump.
The guy spent the last years as a paid propagandist and liar. Why should anything change? And who would expect it to?
Mish’s last line underscores a glaring irony here: One party lectures the other about how it elevates Identity Politics above meritocracy and competency (true), yet the leader of the lecturing party turns a blind eye to incompetence if it threatens his “loyalists.”
Judge Boasberg, ex FISA court boss which impeached Trump, will investigate the leak. He might enter Hillary’s sinkhole. Michael Waltz gave the Atlantic magazine a huge booster. Jeff Goldberg is loyal to himself and his magazine. This leak might boomerang on the dems.
Sure thing
So pissed you all are. Truth hurts.
The fact that Boasberg was “randomly assigned” this case makes me think that maybe it was CiA staff not MI6 who hacked Waltz’s phone and set him up. If so, expect that they used the Umbrage Component Library to make it look like Russia was behind the hack.
Hegseth might have been undermined by his home team? Just reading between the lines.
An investigation would reveal that……but there is not going to be one.
A proper investigation would discover who hacked Waltz’s phone and associated Goldberg’s Signal account with the name of some other administration person who would have been cleared to be on this chat. Grenell, perhaps. It was definitely an intelligence agency.
They could easily put Musk’s monkeys on to it…….cheap, and they’d have it solved by lunch.
You are correct. No one investigates the King
Sometimes it is what is… not a conspiracy. Just people messing up big time.
The “normal” or proper response by Hegseth (and others) would have been to simply take responsibility, apologize, say it will never happen again, and pretend to ‘fall on the sword’ – which never would come as all would have been forgiven. The problem is that if he admitted error and apologized he would be fired by Trump. You just can’t have someone in your administration apologize as this shows weakness.
I doubt apologies figure into it somehow.
Yes, everyone is scared in a fascist State. The plan. Pretty much. Stochastic terrorism. The flavor of the decade.
Whoever “inadvertantly” gave this Goldstein fellow access to the supposedly secure chat should be fired and hauled before Congress to some ‘splaining.
Exactly.
Uh, no. A congressional hearing is a waste of time. Disciplinary action should take place inside the executive branch.
Why is no one asking how/why Goldberg was added to the group chat? This has the hallmarks of an inside job.
Inside job…Trump’s team doing in…trump’s team. Just a bunch of knuckleheads.
Tar and feather him!
The reporter served in the IDF, holds dual passports and worked for an Israeli paper. My money is on he has ties to Mossad and no loyalty to the US.
Conspiracies everywhere in those simple maga minds
He was born in NY but chose to serve in the IDF. If his loyalty was to the US he would join the US Military.
If Trump was loyal to the US,he would not have dodged the draft multiple times during the Vietnam war. Claiming bone spurs in his tiny little feet. He literally said his personal Vietnam was avoiding std’s when he was young. Although, I doubt he avoided std’s. So yeah… if belonging to the military is your judgement call for loyalty to the US. I guess I’ll have to agree.
You voted for Bob Dole, right?
I spent 11 years serving. Did you bridge to no where?
avoiding viet nam seems smart and humane. the reporter serving in IDF a foreign country known for war crimes seems evil. i read the atlantic for decades. it’s history as an abolitionist magazine is stellar. this guy goldstein, is a bad dude. as is hegseth. birds of feathers.
Like the Russia or Fine People conspiracies???????
Well Trump does love Putin. Not sure if that’s a conspiracy. The fine people who were involved in the January 6 insurrection were referred to as very fine people by Trump. So that’s not a conspiracy.
There’s no such thing as an unarmed insurrection.
Truth hurts. Cult folks can never lose faith in their leader.
Given that Trump has given Israel 100% of everything they could ever want (Biden did as well, despite his handwringing over Palestinian deaths), what’s the rationale for this alleged interference?
I doubt it was Mossad this time. More likely CiA or MI6 who hacked Waltz’s phone, swapping in Goldberg’s Signal account for an administration person’s Signal account. You couldn’t pick a person more certain to release the inadvertently released data than Jeffrey Goldberg. Many CIA staff and all of British Intelligence would love to topple Trump.
You can take a DEI hillbilly out of the Fox News farm and dress him up in a suit and give him a big important job in Washington but you can’t take the Fox News farm out of the hillbilly.
Kind of like you can take the man out of Illinoise but you can’t Illinoise out of the man kind of the same thing .
If you are talking about Pete Hegseth he is from Minnesota and went to Princeton and Harvard so he isn’t a hillbilly.
What were his grades and awards?
You go first. What were yours?
I’ll wager they were higher than his, but we won’t know until we see his first, so I have something to compare against.
How about you join in the fun and show yours Bruce?
Yup. How are communication involving a CIA agent that needs to be redacted NOT classified information?
But, conversely, if the Atlantic does release it– and they aren’t charged with releasing classified information — the it can’t very well be classified.
Some kind of clown show here, with the media as bad as the politicians
The problem is everyone has an angle to push, and an agenda, with the truth getting tossed aside in the signalling.
Ho hum. It was a set up. American Oversight had the lawsuit ready to file. Goldstein waited until the day before the hearing to release it. Alex Wong worked for Covington and Burling and for CREW, which is funded by Soros. And Boasberg was just ‘randomly’ assigned the case. A case which BTW, is now moot.
The real question to be answered, is who actually got set up. The Trump Adminstration. Or Goldstein. Time will tell.
Mish your TDS is showing up more every day. I’m starting to get concerned.
I am looking forward to the equity market collapse though because I know you will have a lot of excellent analysis. I bought more silver today.
It’s a federal crime what they did. There’s no “set up” conspiracy needed. They broke the law, plain and simple. Grow up.
I don’t believe that is correct. Please see my comments above.
Rabbit hole meet Eric!
It was definitely a set up. Almost certainly not of Goldberg, but of Trump’s team. It was probably CIA or MI6 to embarrass Trump, whom they despise.
Joe Biden said no one is above the law and would never pardon his son Hunter .
You see, Joe was a man of princible and honor . We just don’t get them like
Joe anymore . Trying to hold people to Bidens standard is expecting to much . Joe
said Hunter was innocent and was being singled out for political purposes .I guess
according to Joes statements that someone else used the robo signature for the
pardon. That’s the only way I can figure it out.
He knows trumps’s vindictive. Trump puts his revenge on before he gets out of bed in the morning. He lives and breathes revenge. I expect that’s what magats love about him. Biden had to protect a lot of folks from the revenge machine. Trump released Jan 6 insurrectionists. Pardoned them and is now contemplating giving them tax payer money to make them feel better. Give it up with constant equivocating. Biden is a decent man with a son with mental health issues. Trump just pardoned his fans. Not the same in the least.
“Biden is a decent man with a son with mental health issues.”
People get the kind of government they deserve.
Why bring up Biden? He’s not included in this topic. I guess that, whenever someone points out some stupidity or incompetence in the Trump administration it’s important to shout out: ‘ but look what Biden did’ on some unrelated matter. Everything is excusable when done by ‘my guy’.
It’s a weak tea response called “whataboutism”, designed to minimize and redirect any complaints against Trump.
I havent confirmed but Im pretty sure all communications from Illinois to the White House is being blocked, as is any letters, emails or transmissions from CA or NY. There is nothing we in Chicago can do about this — all our politicians are democrats. The southern and mid-states will have to determine when this really bad opera has has its run and needs to be ended. Johnson and 17-20 senators have to be ready to say enough is enough, and convict and remove. So far, they continue to follow the script.
Barring any further major fookup’s, little will change until the Pubs get a reality slap when they lose the midterms.
Not sure why they are using an unsecured app for this. They need to wake up. Quit lying, admit the error, fix it and move on.
Because they are deeply stupid people, and they don’t care who they endanger with their stupidity.
They were purposefully using an unsecured App as that is part of Project 2025 and Trump’s strategy – Don’t create a permanent trail. Speaking as a trial lawyer, most cases are now built on emails and text evidence. This is why the Orange man would “pop” into Michael Cohen’s office and why people had to record conversations. Trump certainly knows how to use his Orange thumbs but won’t text or email.
Now I read that this is an encrypted app? Why the hell is a reporter on this?
And why are they using an app at all? Don’t they have encrypted phones?
Because he was invited into the conversation.
Because MI6 or CiA hacked Waltz’s phone and put Goldberg’s Signal account under the name of another person like Rick Grenell. That was the easy part. The harder part is leaving crumbs that point to a different culprit – like China or Russia or Iran. Guaranteed they did that. Take it to the bank.
Story should be about the successful attacks on the Houthis’. Instead, we get days and days of this nonsense. Someone screwed up, it happens. The mainstream media wants this to be the narrative, and Mish obliges.
So you would have felt the same way if it happened under the last administration? Don’t kid yourself.
This is just the tip of the iceberg. Communications are occurring on Signal throughout the Administration. Notice none of them commented that maybe they shouldn’t be communicating in that manner? They just got caught.
He has a clown car of people taking care of our national security. There is no moving on until these idiots are removed from their positions. National security risks, every one of them. But, the msm will move on. Treating this very dangerous situation as just another drama. Everyday, Americans wake up to the trump show. Stochastic terrorism. Psychological warfare. We can see what they are up to. Can you? Or do you just love love love it?
Jimbo that is just bullsh*t
I believe you know you are preaching bullsh*t because it’s obvious
You can’t help yourself because you have TDS Type II
All Hegseth had to do was say “This should not have happened. We will investigate how it happened. and it won’t happen again”
Instead he lies like a moron, escalating the problem
Jackasses defend the lies.
So he’s a jackass, no question about that.
The only question anyone cares about is whether this is a fire-able offense.
Then if it is, and there is a push to fire him (or multiple people) then the next question is who replaces them because it’s not like congress or anyone else picks those positions, it will be Trump going down the line to his next friend who is presumably even less qualified. Congress can of course stop those picks but then Trump can keep nominating ever worse people so that position is never filled and Hesgeth or someone else can keep running the office from the behind the scenes.
I’m sure everyone here is well aware that statements by public officials are frequently dictated by their superiors. It was initially mishandled, that might have been the call of any one of several people, and Trump has addressed it more or less the way it has been called for here for him to address it.
For all the barking, we don’t know much about the way Hegseth conducts business. He has a very different resume from the sort of people who have been in this position. The people who have held this position previously have raped public coffers, violated conflict of interest rules until they were obliterated and forgotten, and blown off the top of the head of the one President who tried to stop them, which President was perhaps the most popular President in US history.
I don’t know that Hegseth is a worse or better choice than anyone else, but any “outsider” would have to be a better choice than what we have previously experienced.
Anyone who reads this column should understand that one more administration with one more Pentagon and one more CIA spending the way they have previously would destroy the United States of America, without a scintilla of doubt.
I think we can afford a lot of screwups more than we can afford a bankrupt nation.
“Successful attacks on the Houthis”. Riiiiight. They’ve been getting bombed for 10 years. You think this will stop the missile attacks? An easier, and more morally acceptable way to stop the Houthis from firing on ships would have been to tell Netanyahu to let food and water into Gaza.
I wonder if a single legitimate conservative American will ever take issue with anything Trump is doing. If they don’t with this, they are truly cult members sworn to Dear Leader.
TDS I was an affliction of liberals. TDS II is an affliction of MAGA members.
Liberals were right about this felon. The true derangement is the cult. That’s the MAGA members.
I’m not sure I would call Trump followers legitimate conservatives. Ask any of them if they know who. Russell Kirt or William Buckley are.
Trump’ support comes from a wide coalition of moderate Republicans, former moderate Democrats and a sprinkling of far right nuts. It is basically a new party.
That’s getting smaller every day.
Democrats are now limited to far left nuts and no one else.
There aren’t many Democrats anymore.
A new party will arise soon.
An Antifa-concentric one probably.
I think Antifa is yesterday’s news.
Young people have serious concerns about the future – they will form a new party.
Doug 78 I won’t dispute what you say. My take is that Trump supporters are people who believe the government is not working
(both Democrats and Republicans) and are highly frustrated because high paying low skill factory jobs disappeared and they blame the exportation of manufacturing and immigration (legal or not) for it. As such, I don’t classify them as true conservatives.
They’re nihilists. Or, just attracted to chaos out of boredom.
Not all Trump supporters are conservative, and I would guess the majority of them don’t even like Trump. They are people who just can’t swallow the shit sandwich the democrats keep trying to shove down their throats. If the democrats ran someone like JFK, Trump would not have won.
They aren’t Americans – they’re Trumplanders.
Far left nuts see only themselves as Americans.
I take issue with Trump on following.
Only question in my mind is why WH still allows anything that originated from Biden administration and treating it as if it was secure. Which is where this app supposedly came from.
Certainly hope Trump had a microscopic sweep done of Oval office for bugs before taking seat there.
Time for the Trust and naivete hat gets tossed in the garbage Bin.
You mean like the way so many Americans put on masks to stop the transmission of a virus…!?! 😎
“In a statement Wednesday, Hegseth said, “The Atlantic released the so-called ‘war plans’ and those ‘plans’ include: No names. No targets. No locations. No units. No routes. No sources. No methods. And no classified information.”
And so, since the data is not classified, the Atlantic released more details as I said they should do.”…………The Atlantic is a totally fraudulent and Fake News media outlet, no informed and educated individual believes ANYTHING they say. Mish, you keep riding this dead horse, the media outlet you are relying on is worthless and garbage, you are killing your already marginal credibility, please stop!
Okay, you get into a strike fighter when someone has just put out and easily intercepted message that you’re about to launch a strike and then take your pulse.
Information is now coming out that one other participants on this discussion was in Russia. Do you think they’re not listening?
The information coming from the Atlantic is getting verified from all over.
And you think that if this it happened under Biden. You wouldn’t be claiming bloody murder?
It’s time for us all to stand up and call a spade a shovel. This is a clown car cabinet.
Didn’t happen and if this happened under Biden you would be saying no big deal
They live in a bubble. They don’t get it. Reasonable people check and verify from multiple sources. Not just your favorite online rabbit hole. I agree with you entirely.
Ratcliffe admitted to Ossoff that the time of the attack was referenced in the Signal chat.
“Mish, you keep riding this dead horse, the media outlet you are relying on is worthless and garbage, you are killing your already marginal credibility, please stop!”
And yet you are here commenting and coming back for more. Is that you Bayleaf?
Except for Covid and medical issues (where they rely too much on mainstream sources), I rely on the Atlantic for much of my information. Please detail where they are shading the truth (a la Fox news) for my enlightenment.
Heh. What is “worthless and garbage” is your attacks on The Atlantic.
I’m betting that “Fred”, who just showed up the last couple of days to dig at The Atlantic, is some kind of Pub cleanup team member, trying to muddy the waters. Possibly one of the DOGE guys assigned by Musk to do damage control?
You never expected him to be confirmed but he was. You never expected all of Trump’s choices to be confirmed but they all were. You are wrong on this one too. Underlying support for Trump’s picks is very strong in Congress and among the American people. He is not going to be fired over this.
But are you arguing that Hesgeth’s conduct was appropriate and okay? We know you have said that it’s irrelevant, but do you take any issue with them using non-government systems to communicate such info? I remember a time when Hillary used an email server for much less, and her head was called for by the right. This sounds like it’s all clever politics to the GOP who seem to think this is all a laugh.
No. He’s desperately to change the subject. That’s what they always do when something is indefensible.
I never said it was irrelevant. I am arguing that what happened is not important enough for him to be fired. As to the systems, I am not qualified to determine if the system used was secure or not. From what I understand the system was not hacked. The reporter was invited in by mistake.
The “system” was not hacked, and Goldberg didn’t hack his way into the conversation. Waltz’s phone was hacked so that when he thought he was adding Person X (an administration employee) to the chat, he was actually adding Goldberg. That’s why Waltz saw Person X’s name on the chat.
This was the key reason there were “reservations” about approving the Hegseth clown to the appointment to begin with. Wait till this guy gets real stressed out and hits the bottle or drugs.
How do you know he’s not doing drugs and hitting the bottle now?
Not sure of the bubble you live in but no, there is not strong support for Trump’s Cabinet picks. Let’s not forget that Trump won by less than 1% of the vote; I can assure you that far more than 1% of Trump voters are disgusted / regretful / embarrassed. Start looking at polling.
the independent and greens and libertarians swung the election.
Yes Trump lost in the states with no voter I’d requirements but won in the ones that do.
As a lawyer, you should be precise. Trump won by about 1.5% of the popular vote.
Republicans in Congress like their jobs and all the perks that go with the job. They want to keep those jobs and the best way to do that is to kowtow to Trump’s threats.
Most of Trump’s picks were confirmed not because they were qualified to do the job but because Congresspeople are afraid to challenge bully Trump. SAD!
Just remember that if you fire these guys, who do you imagine Trump is going to replace them with?
It’s definitely going to be more of his friends and not some person Trump doesn’t get along with even if they happen to be qualified. So remember that when calling for firings.
Trump doesn’t get to choose Congress members, which as you may recall, is supposed to act as the check and balance against unbridled Executive power.
Republican Congresspeople were absent from that training day.
I was talking about Trumps picks, not congress members.
And as you can clearly read in my first sentence, I was speaking of Congress. Why was that unclear?
Lying is one thing but doing so when the truth is starring you in the face is another. Truly sad.
He swore an oath to Trump, Hesgeth is a Kamikaze pilot.
The source for these claims, The Atlantic, is wholly fraudulent media outlet, they falsely claimed that President Trump trashed the troops during his first term, it was a PROVEN lie…………And you are buying their claims now?
Exactly, and Goldberg promoted hoax after hoax.
Sure, but this thing got dumped in his lap. Waltz was set up by an intelligence operation so that sensitive data was shunted to a Trump-hating reporter.
Ummm. These so called “claims” are not claims but actual communications that have now been shared. What is this weird allegiance to Trump and refusal to actually read?
You miss my point, it is the interpretation by The Atlantic that is garbage. The administration admits that this conversation took place, but the embellishment of the Fake News The Atlantic is where my criticism is aimed………..No critical information was revealed and no details were discussed, Thew Atlantic is just making fraudulent claims as to the “intent” of what was said, and they hate President Trump and the GOP, so garbage is what they are pushing here.
You posted the same BS yesterday “Fred”. Seems like you have a problem with The Atlantic.
Yes, I do have a problem with The Atlantic, they are lying frauds that push Fake News. The Atlantic has lied profusely about President Trump and others in the administration as well as the GOP, a FACT Jojo………Now maybe you are OK with being duped by the Atlantic, but most people aren’t
I think you are full of crap. Let’s have some evidence. Bet you can’t produce anything intelligent.
Who’d have thought Gerald Ford was also prescient?
“The political lesson of Watergate is this: Never again must America allow an arrogant, elite guard of political adolescents to by-pass the regular party organization and dictate the terms of a national election.”
Gerald R. Ford
Gerald meet Donald J. Trump.
I don’t recall, did you demand Hillary (or Joe Biden) be fired for incompetence?
Did one of them leak military attack plans on an insecure platform they were using to keep their conversation out of the public record?
FWIW, Hillary should go to jail for what she did. So should these clowns.
Another GOP false equivalency.
Yes, he did…
In just the time since you posted this JUST WHO IS A LIAR?
“Trump also mentioned Honda’s plans to build a plant in Indiana, saying the decision was due to the election result and his tariffs. He also claimed that plants in other countries have stopped “right in the middle of construction.”
For which Honda had to clear up!
“Honda has not announced plans for a new factory in Indiana, the Japanese carmaker said Wednesday, contradicting statements by President Trump. “We thank President Trump for recognizing our commitment to manufacturing vehicles in America,” Honda said in a statement, but added, “Honda did not announce plans for a new plant in the U.S. at this time.”