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Senate to Pare Build Back Better, How Big Will the Axe Be?

How Big the Axe?

The question of the day is What Goes and What Stays in the House $2 Trillion BBB Program.

Key Items

  • State and Local Tax (SALT): Some Democrats from high-tax states such as New York and New Jersey have been adamant that the $10,000 cap on state and local deductions, put in place in the 2017 GOP tax bill, be raised. House added a provision that would lift the cap to $72,500, starting in tax year 2021. It would also extend that higher cap through 2031. That provision could be problematic in the Senate, where every Democratic member must support the legislation. Sens. Bernie Sanders (I., Vt.) and Robert Menendez (D., N.J.) have said they oppose the House version but support a version with an income cap for the state and local tax deduction.
  • Paid Leave: House Democrats have also included four weeks of paid parental, sick or caregiving leave. Under the $200 billion program, the government would provide Americans a share of their wages while they take leave. Democrats had originally proposed 12 weeks of leave. That provision faces trouble in the Senate, where centrist West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin has said he opposes its inclusion. 
  • Methane: Under the House bill, companies would be required to pay fees for methane emitted by oil and gas wells, transmission lines and other facilities. They could also receive $775 million of grants and other subsidies to help pay for emissions reductions. Mr. Manchin, whose state is a big gas producer, hasn’t said whether he supports the plan; his opposition could force the provision to be altered or removed from the bill.
  • Tax Incentive for Electric Cars: Under the bill, $4,500 of a total $12,500 electric-vehicle tax credit would be available only for cars, vans, SUVs and pickups made at unionized factories. Republicans are expected to ask the Senate parliamentarian to remove that provision, arguing that it doesn’t comport with Senate rules requiring spending to have a meaningful fiscal impact that is more than “merely incidental” to the policy proposal.
  • Immigration: House Democrats included a provision that would provide a five-year, renewable work authorization to anyone in the country before 2011, no matter how they entered, providing legal status to millions of residents. The Senate parliamentarian has already ruled that two earlier proposals to legalize millions of immigrants living in the U.S. illegally didn’t qualify under rules governing legislation passed through reconciliation, suggesting that the latest measure could be stripped from the bill.

Resolution

  • State and Local Tax (SALT): Expect a compromise. Curiously, the House bill is  regressive. The biggest beneficiaries are the very wealthy. We will see a cap on income or a cap on the amount. That’s up to whatever Sanders will go along with.
  • Paid Leave: I expect Manchin to hold firm. If so, paid leave will be struck from the bill.
  • Methane: I suspect Manchin will strike this although he has not stated an opinion.
  • Tax Incentive for Electric Cars: One of two things will happen. The Senate will strike the union-made requirement or the whole thing goes. 
  • Immigration: Gone

Terrible Deal

In simple terms, not much will happen. The Progressives will get most of what they want by playing games with the timeline.

Their hope, and Manchin’s stated fear is that once enacted, government spending programs never get cancelled.

Bad But Expected News 

On November 5 I commented Bad But Expected News – Progressives Cave In and Pass Infrastructure Bill

Progressives has insisted Build Back Better pass first. But after months of wrangling, Pelosi finally corralled enough House Progressives to pass the infrastructure bill stand alone.

The only thing I can come up with is Pelosi is now willing to pass the infrastructure bill and Build Back Better separately but cannot come out and say it that way because Progressives will not go along.

Divide and Conquer?

Next, assuming Manchin hold firms, Pelosi will ask the Progressives “Do you want something or nothing?”

Rest assured it will be something unless Manchin is willing to kill the whole damn thing.

I hoped Progressives would not cave in, but they did as expected. 

A bill that could not be passed in one piece will instead get passed in two.

Wharton Analyzes Biden’s Lies, Concludes Build Back Better Costs Over Twice As Much

Please note Wharton Analyzes Biden’s Lies, Concludes Build Back Better Costs Over Twice As Much

The White House cost estimate for Build Back Better is $1.870 trillion. Wharton’s estimate is $4.262 trillion.

The cost will be a little less if Manchin holds firm on paid, but this is a huge socialist  pipeline.

To answer my question “How Big the Axe?”. 

Not very,  unless Manchin does the unexpected and kills the whole thing.

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13 Comments
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KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
I like the electric vehicle subsidies. It’s something that will actually help the environment and like it or not electric vehicles are the future. The union part is asinine and is clearly a tool to get union votes for the democrats.
Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear
4 years ago
The Republicans could be making a side deal with Manchin: Vote against Progressive spending bills and we will run a VERY weak Republican candidate against you.
Jmurr
Jmurr
4 years ago
Why should the federal government subsidize the purchase of electric cars from billionaires?  
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  Jmurr
How much do you think billionaires spend on electric vehicles? There are many subsidies that are for everyone. Billionaires are not excluded. And shouldn’t be because it will just make things complex over a miniscule amount of tax revenue.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Pretty sure he was talking about Musk getting subsidies via Tesla rather than Billionaires buying electric cars.
There was a time to offer subsidies on EV’s but that time has past. They are now viable vehicles that have entered mass production not just from Tesla but from virtually all auto makers so the NRE (non-recurring engineering) phase is over. So they should now compete directly with ICE vehicles rather than being subsidized.
And please don’t post about oil company subsidies. That’s for all oil products (not just the gas in your car) which includes oil/gas used to generate the electric power for EV’s.
thimk
thimk
4 years ago
Here is the final “whats in the infrastructure bill ” . not too bad just adds 250 billion in debt over 10 years. funding from left over Covid relief . 
Does this (infrastructure)  have  to go to Senate ??. This BBB deal gives me heartburn though.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Krugman….what a putz. He needs to retire and fade into the sunset. Does he ever say anything that isn’t profoundly wrong? 
I hope they don’t pare back the SALT deduction….because of the high property taxes here. I’d be fine with a half-million or so income cap.   🙂
I doubt an incentive on eV’s that just applies to union-made vehicles is likely to stand up. It sounds stupid to me. And illegal.
I expect to see some new requirements on reducing or taxing methane. The Oil and Gas industry sure wastes a lot of it, but I think they’re already working to curb that…because it’s wasted money to lose it or burn it.
I really support giving aliens legal work status, since they’re here and not likely to go anywhere…but I get that it doesn’t fit a reconciliation bill.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Leave SALT where it is since it’s one of the few taxes that truly hits the wealthy / upper middle class.
Drop the EV incentive entirely (esp the 4500 union part). We are past the stage where EV’s need incentive money to be viable competitors to ICE vehicles so we should stop handing out money to EV makers. Musk especially doesn’t need more cash.
I’m OK with taxing wasted Methane (ie the burn offs that they do at virtually every well) although I realize it’s ultimately just going to get passed to consumers via higher prices. I’m definitely not OK taxing things like cow farts. This needs to be very carefully looked at since it’s a fine line to cross.
No to paid leave.
No to immigration. I understand your support for legalizing illegals but it’s a slippery slope that sends a message to more illegals that they too should cross into this country ASAP and wait for the next round of legalization. Besides those illegals are already working illegally anyway.  You have to hold firm on this since there are plenty of legal immigrants coming every year and that’s where we want the focus to be on. On the other hand, I would support legalizing illegals if we truly built Trumps wall and worked very hard to keep future illegals out (harshly repelling them) but I know that’s not going to happen so a definite no to legalization.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Leave SALT where it is since it’s one of the few taxes that truly hits the wealthy / upper middle class.
You must be a different kind of wealthy/upper middle class than I am. I’m taxed out the wazoo.   🙂
And if  you don’t change the SALT back, it just means I have to charge higher rent to the younger, more mobile population. I just rented my empty to people moving here from Oregon. Gotta love demographics.
It’s definitely the oil companies that are being harassed about methane. Bad optics, especially from outer space at night.  🙂
I doubt they go after the cattle ranchers. We ain’t that Woke yet, no matter how much Roger Hallam and Greta think we should forego meat.
 
Borders used to be so much easier to police. Just shoot a few, and the rest would lose their nerve. String more razor wire, and let border patrol agents take target practice at the jack rabbits with electric Gatlin guns.. No wall needed. Modern rules of behavior just don’t make sense.
I like eV subsidies, because it’s a tax break for me, personally. Forgive me for desiring special treatment.  🙂 I deserve something for voting for Biden.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
I’m pretty sure I am not as wealthy as you. But the wealth I do have is not tied up in real estate like yours is (mines stocks in my trading accounts and my 401K). My only real estate is my home on which I definitely pay more in taxes than the 10K SALT limitation. I’m also taxed out the wazoo because I have to pay on stock trades + my income.
I honestly didn’t even know you as a landlord could deduct property taxes. I thought deduction that was only for homeowners primary residence. The easy solution to that is to let renters use the SALT deduction (if that’s better for them). After all, they are the ones paying the taxes because as you’ve said, you built it into the rent anyway. So you can then raise rents to cover the tax loss and the renters claim the deduction. Should be a net zero for you money wise and possibly the renter too (assuming they take that deduction).
I’ve been to several rig sites (company I work for is in the business tangentially) and seen it in person. Had no idea it happened till the first time I was on site to see it and marvel at the idea of wasting gas. Burning it is a safety issue (reduced explosion chance). Capturing it (vs releasing into the air which is no different than burning) is going to be expensive especially since there are thousands and thousands of small pump jacks that run on their own all flaring off the gas.  Not sure it will be economical to build a capture device for every pump jack and then collect the gas every so often so it may just be easier to pay the fine and increase gas prices to consumers and then let the government waste the tax money (since it will end up in general coffers rather than climate related).
If you get an EV subsidy for voting for Biden, can I get an ICE subsidy for voting for Trump (well, I can’t vote as a Canadian but the misses can and did).
Irondoor
Irondoor
4 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Apparently you are ignorant of tax law relative to income property. Taxes, interest, maintenance, management expense, advertising, depreciation, etc are all deductible expenses. 
Agave
Agave
4 years ago
It’s about time the rebalancing starts. Reagan began the great disassembling of the American middle class with his myths about trickle down, the government always being your enemy, tax cuts for the wealthy, Union destruction, and intensification of false narratives and lies on right wing media to stoke fear, anger, and division among the ignorant and uninformed. It’s led to an outrageous violent attempted insurrectionist overthrow of the 2020 election and our government, based on the Big Lie about nonexistent election fraud, and leading to voter suppression laws aimed at minorities in states all across the country, and the proliferation of ridiculous but dangerous conspiracy theories like Qanon.
It also resulted in a highly partisan stacked Supreme Court (via dirty tricks from McConnell) whose ruling that money equals speech and that extreme partisan gerrymandering and voter suppression are a-ok are destroying this country, so that the big money elite can work towards autocratic control and destruction of our democracy. Utterly sickening. When have you seen the republicans propose any bills that help the average working people in the past 20 years? They just cart out imaginary boogie men to drive divisions among us instead.
This BBB bill is a start at putting a dent in reversing the upward shift of the nation’s wealth from the middle class to uber wealthy 1%. There’s no denying this has happened to a massive extent since Reagan, intentionally so, and led to the gutting of onshore manufacturing, much of the previous comfortable middle class wages, and the continued downtrodden conditions of the poor. It’s past time for a course correction, and this bill aims the pay-for at the wealthy who took advantage of the system to redistribute the wealth upwards. By sparing many who are barely getting by in this oligarchic straitjacket, the middle class and poor will have an increased safety margin to avoid leaving them on the edge of poverty and bankruptcy, and the economy will strengthen as a result, instead of sitting doing nothing in billionaire’s accounts. Plus, the taxes will not be aimed at those making less than $400k per year. It’s also time to tax capital gains as income for those for whom it represents their main source of funding and paying for living expenses, perhaps starting at over a minimum threshold to exclude middle class retirees and others who live off modest investments and such.
For the specifics of this bill, I favor a change in SALT but capping it so it benefits the middle classes, not the wealthy. Four weeks of paid leave is sufficient, though Maserati Manchin may successfully kill that. Many middle class parents would benefit from it though. Immigration will probably not make the cut for reconciliation purposes. If this country doesn’t wake up to what climate change has in store for it and take at least the small steps in this bill, I will be saying I told you so in 10-20 years, and the deniers are going to be shocked by what they see. Got boats for rowing to work, Miami and Charleston residents?
MericanPatriot
MericanPatriot
4 years ago
Reply to  Agave
You’re spot on. There is a difference between oligarchy and democracy. And freedom isn’t compatible with the former. 
You want your kids to follow their dreams (we’re old farts after all). Not gonna happen here. Data: https://www.weforum.org/reports/global-social-mobility-index-2020-why-economies-benefit-from-fixing-inequality
You want economic dynamism and value for your taxes? It’s not happening with people tied to jobs for health insurance and sure as $h!t we’re not getting good tax value. The United States ranks first in the OECD for health care expenditure (both on absolute and relative terms), but last for coverage. Data: https://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-in-united-states.htm 
You don’t want people on welfare, stealing, dealing drugs etc. You don’t want that because jail/prison, police services are expensive (morality of working a full time job and not making ends meet aside). Again, you’re wasting taxes. Raise the minimum wage which 16M Americans receive, index it for inflation so people can afford to live and not fall on the safety net.  Data: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2019/11/21/low-wage-work-is-more-pervasive-than-you-think-and-there-arent-enough-good-jobs-to-go-around/ and https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F7f5e1d42-8e51-4223-973c-fdc8556b7701_1170x671.jpeg
If your business can’t be viable by paying people a living wage, you don’t have a business, you have a failed idea supported by everyone elese’s tax money. You’re not a businessman you’re a leech. 
Don’t support social programs because of morality, support them because it will give you better value on your taxes. And if you think you’re ‘middle class’ or ‘upper class’ don’t worry, if you don’t change this race to the bottom your kids won’t be any better either. You’re one cancer diagnosis away from bankruptcy. 
I’m sure some clown will reply with: ‘Socialism’ but I learned to ignore idiots a long time ago. I liked this forum because it USED to provide good insightful fact based dialogue. Now it’s just Facebook with all my uncles on it. 

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