States With Low Vaccination Rates Lead in Covid Cases and Deaths, Who’s to Blame?

The above Coronavirus Map is courtesy of Fox News.

I downloaded data from Worldometers on new cases and new deaths two days ago to see how well the data matches.

Covid Case Rate Per 100,000 Last 7 Days

Covid Death Rate Per 100,000 Last 7 Days

New Covid Case Rate Per Million Single Day

New Covid Death Rate Per Million Single Day

Irrational Fear of the Shot

Inquiring minds may wish to know How many people have died from the vaccine in the U.S.?

Between December 2020 and July 19th, 2021, VAERS received 6,207 reports of death (0.0018% of doses) among people who got a vaccine, but this does not mean the vaccine caused these deaths. Doctors and safety monitors carefully review the details of each case to see if it might be linked to the vaccine. There are three deaths that appear to be linked to blood clots that occurred after people got the J&J vaccine. Since we now know how to correctly treat people who develop these blood clots, future deaths related to this very rare side effect can be prevented.

By way of comparison, getting COVID-19 while unvaccinated poses a grave risk; as of July 23, 2021, more than 610,000 deaths have been attributed to the virus in the US alone.

Contrary to popular conspiracy theory, not everyone who dies while having COVID is counted towards this total. Suppose someone who tested positive for COVID-19 was killed in a car accident. The car accident would be the cause of death. This person would be counted as having “died with” COVID, not as having “died of” COVID.

The Anti-Vaxers on the other hand will tell you 6,207 or some other made up number of people died from the shot.  

Deaths and Hospitalizations Reflect the Divide

Please consider US is split between the vaccinated and unvaccinated – and deaths and hospitalizations reflect this divide.

As of mid-July 2021, the U.S. has fully vaccinated more than 160 million people – just under 50% of the population – against COVID-19. The vaccines themselves are nothing short of remarkable in their effectiveness at protecting against COVID-19.

Unvaccinated people, by comparison, are extremely susceptible to the coronavirus, particularly to the delta variant and the data on deaths and hospitalizations show this discrepancy clearly.

On July 16, 2021, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky revealed that 99.5% of recent U.S. deaths from COVID-19 were of unvaccinated people. “Those deaths were preventable with a simple, safe shot,” she said. 

In her July 16 statement, Walensky also said that 97% of current COVID-19 hospitalizations are of unvaccinated people. An earlier analysis done by The Associated Press found that 98.9% of all hospitalized COVID-19 patients in May were unvaccinated. The director of the Los Angeles County Department of Health Services recently stated that all new hospitalized COVID-19 patients in Los Angeles were unvaccinated.

Alabama Governor Says “Blame the Unvaccinated” 

Please consider Alabama Republican Gov. Ivey says ‘start blaming the unvaccinated folks’ for rise in Covid cases

Alabama Republican Gov. Kay Ivey on Thursday called out “the unvaccinated folks” for the rise in Covid-19 cases in her state, a remarkable plea at a time when many GOP leaders are refusing to urge people to get vaccinated even as Covid-19 cases surge in many parts of the country.

“Folks are supposed to have common sense. But it’s time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the regular folks. It’s the unvaccinated folks that are letting us down,” Ivey told reporters in Birmingham.

Ivey insisted that she’s done “all I know how to do” in managing the situation. When asked what it would take to get more people to get shots, she replied, “I don’t know, you tell me.”

But many Republican leaders still won’t say publicly​ whether they are vaccinated and Trump himself has cast the vaccine in political terms, suggesting people aren’t taking it because “they don’t trust (Biden’s) Administration.”

Utah Stats

Damn. It appears Bill Gates has somehow hijacked the minds of the Utah Government in addition to the Alabama Governor.

It does not stop there. 

What the hell happened to Fox News posting such a chart? 

And did someone place a microchip in McConnell’s brain?

 House Minority Leader McConnell on Board

Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, a polio survivor, has ​long advocated for vaccines and has talked about vaccines during multiple visits to his home state of Kentucky, but on Tuesday, he issued one of his fiercest calls to get vaccinated yet.

“These shots need to get in everybody’s arm as rapidly as possible, or we’re going to be back in a situation in the fall that we don’t yearn for, that we went through last year,” McConnell said Tuesday. “I want to encourage everybody to do that and to ignore all of these other voices that are giving demonstrably bad advice.”

Republican Resistance

However, McConnell faces Republican Resistance.  

“I don’t think it’s anybody’s damn business whether I’m vaccinated or not,” Republican Rep. Chip Roy of Texas told CNN. 

Republican Rep. Matt Gaetz of Florida told CNN “that’s very nosy of you,” when CNN started asking about his vaccination status.

The silence from some Republicans does even more damage when considering the ​extent of misinformation that ​ some Republican lawmakers are spreading.

Freshman Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene was temporarily suspended from Twitter on Monday after sharing misinformation about Covid-19 and vaccines. Greene, along with fellow freshman Republican Rep. Lauren Boebert, ​have also invoked Nazi-era imagery to mock President Joe Biden’s latest Covid-19 vaccination efforts.

Sen. Ron Johnson, ​one of the two non-vaccinated ​GOP senators, has repeatedly spread vaccine misinformation,​ including a news conference in June and on a right-wing radio show in May.

Freshman Republican Peter Meijer of Michigan, who has been open about being vaccinated and encourages his constituents to do so, told CNN that while it is his colleagues’ choice whether or not they want to get the vaccine or disclose it, “I think individual leaders should do right by those who support them.

Meijer told CNN, “I don’t know why some, especially on the fringes, are doing the equivalent of telling folks not to wear seatbelts when we’re suffering tremendous amounts of highway fatalities. I mean, your voters are believing this.” 

“So, there’s a moral and humanitarian imperative to be upfront and honest,” Meijer said. “At the end of the day, every leader is going to be accountable for his or her own actions.”

Why the Distrust?

For starters, look no further than Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

He has flip-flopped and lied so many times it’s arguably a wonder why the vaccination rate is as high as it is. 

Also blame Trump, Republican Governors in general, anti-vaxers, Republican Senators, etc. 

It would not surprise me in the least to see mask mandates again. The unvaccinated should get the blame. 

Mythbusters an Amusing Utah Production

Safe and Effective but Politics Gets in the Way

I endorse these statement by Alabama Governor Kay Ivey: “It’s safe, it’s effective, the data proves that it works, doesn’t cost anything. It saves lives.” 

People are dying for no reason at all except political posturing. It’s saddening. 

Addendum

The WSJ has an excellent article out today What Makes the Delta Variant of Covid-19 So Dangerous for Unvaccinated People

Delta was first detected in the U.S. in March and by mid-July accounted for three-quarters of Covid-19 cases. It has supplanted the Alpha variant, which until recently was the most widespread version of the virus in the U.S. Its impact is acutely felt in parts of the country with low vaccination rates, where case counts and hospitalizations are surging. The Delta variant accounts for 83% of all U.S. cases, according to recent estimates from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Unvaccinated individuals make up more than 95% of all hospitalizations.

Researchers think Delta is about 50% more transmissible than the Alpha variant, which means the average patient would infect 50% more contacts. Alpha itself is an estimated 50% more contagious than earlier versions of the virus.

Despite Delta’s mutations, studies suggest that the Covid-19 vaccines authorized in the U.S. are effective in preventing serious illness in those exposed to the variant.

Real-world studies support findings from the lab. U.S.-authorized vaccines are somewhat less effective at preventing infection from the Delta variant than they are against established versions of the virus. But they still offer considerable protection against severe illness and hospitalization.

A study of nearly 20,000 people published in the New England Journal of Medicine found that after two doses, the Pfizer vaccine was 88% effective at preventing symptomatic disease caused by Delta. It was 94% effective against the Alpha variant.

An analysis of more than 14,000 Delta cases by England’s public-health agency found that two doses of the Pfizer vaccine reduced the risk of hospitalization by 96%.

Mish

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Mish

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Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
The Pfizer mRNA vaccine: pharmacokinetics and toxicity
Michael Palmer, MD and Sucharit Bhakdi, MD
July 23, 2021
Abstract
We summarize the findings of an animal study which Pfizer submitted to the Japanese health authorities in 2020, and which pertained to the distribution and elimination of a model mRNA vaccine.  We show that this study clearly presaged grave risks of blood clotting and other adverse effects. The failure to monitor and assess these risks in the subsequent clinical trials, and the grossly negligent review process in conjunction with the emergency use authorizations, have predictably resulted in an unprecedented medical disaster.
Summary
Pfizer’s animal data clearly presaged the following risks and dangers:

• blood  clotting  shortly  after  vaccination,  potentially  leading  to  heart  attacks, stroke, and venous thrombosis
• grave harm to female fertility
• grave harm to breastfed infants
• cumulative toxicity after multiple injections
With the exception of female fertility, which can simply not be evaluated within the short period of time for which the vaccines have been in use, all of the above risks have been substantiated since the vaccines have been rolled out—all are manifest in the reports to the various adverse event registries [9]. Those registries also contain a very considerable number of reports on abortions and stillbirths shortly after vaccination, which should have prompted urgent investigation.
We must emphasize again that each of these risks could readily be inferred from the cited limited preclinical data,  but were not followed up with appropriate in-depth investigations. In particular, the clinical trials did not monitor any laboratory parameters that could have provided information on these risks,  such as those related to blood coagulation (e.g. D-dimers/thrombocytes), muscle cell damage (e.g. troponin/creatine kinase), or liver damage (e.g. ?-glutamyltransferase).  That the various regulatory agencies granted emergency use authorization based on such incomplete and insufficient data amounts to nothing less than gross negligence.
Of particularly grave concern is the very slow elimination of the toxic cationic lipids. In persons repeatedly injected with mRNA vaccines containing these lipids—be they directed against COVID, or any other pathogen or disease—this would result in cumulative toxicity. There is a real possibility that cationic lipids will accumulate in the ovaries. The implied grave risk to female fertility demands the most urgent attention of the public and of the health authorities. Since the so-called clinical trials were carried out with such negligence, the real trials are occurring only now—on a massive scale,  and with devastating results.
This vaccine,  and others,  are often called “experimental.”  Calling off this failed experiment is long overdue. Continuing or even mandating the use of this poisonous vaccine, and the apparently imminent issuance of full approval for it are crimes against humanity.
Corvinus
Corvinus
4 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Don’t worry Jojo… you’ll be promptly called a “dumb conservative/redneck conspiracy theorist” or some equivalent by the usual “highly educated pro science” contingent here.
Lance Manly
Lance Manly
4 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
So somebody puts a pdf on the interwebs and that is supposed to be significant?
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  Lance Manly
You’d have to actually read it (17 pages) to understand what is being discussed.  If your don’t have the patience or IQ to do that, what was the purpose of your snarky comment?
Lance Manly
Lance Manly
4 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
Yes I read it.  That’s how I realized it was crap.
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  Lance Manly
I read it and I disagree.  
oee
oee
4 years ago
The fault lies with the Right wing press that these areas listens to. These states voted for Trump. They are members of the Death Cult that want to kill themselves kill others. It tis the conservative  movement. It is not an accident these the Bible- belt states . Also, Thatcher who claimed almost 40 years ago who claimed there was no Society.  
Lance Manly
Lance Manly
4 years ago
The conservatives are all for keeping the government from interfering with what you decide to do with your own body.  Well, unless you are a woman. Then it is perfectly fine for the government to tell you what to do.
Corvinus
Corvinus
4 years ago
Reply to  Lance Manly
Stop generalizing. All you’re doing is feeding the same old tired divisive tribal narratives. Are there many largely Christian conservatives that want to outlaw abortion? Yes. Does that mean ALL conservatives are for that? No. 
You can find this kind of presumed hypocrisy from all sides.
Lance Manly
Lance Manly
4 years ago
Reply to  Corvinus
LOL, read the republican party platform and get back to me.
Dutoit
Dutoit
4 years ago
I Wonder how the fact that a variant is 50% more transmissible than the other can be established. Probably it is impossible to make experiments…
Lance Manly
Lance Manly
4 years ago
Reply to  Dutoit
Most of the studies look at it epidemiologically rather than experimentally.  With creating a viral load 1,000 times higher and having a reduced incubation time the method of action seems pretty straightforward.
goldguy
goldguy
4 years ago
I’m not looking for fault anymore.  I mean, who really cares who gets vaccinated or not?  If you want to be vaxed get vaxed, if not than don’t.  Real simple.  
Looks as if the Delta variant was caused by the non-sterilized vaccine. 
Looks like alot of people who got the jab also got Delta
Looks like the jabbed are in for 20 miles of bad road for the next so many years.
 
Felix_Mish
Felix_Mish
4 years ago
Lot of certainty in comments today. Smacks of people wanting very much to be comfortable with their decisions.
I sure find myself noticing things that make me comfortable.
But.
6,207 reports of death … among people who got a vaccine“. You’d get 6000 deaths in the last few months from any couple million people in the US. So, vaccines, having been taken by many more than 2 mill, must protect against the real killers, circulatory problems and cancer, right? Seriously, that 6207 number is bogus. It should be much, much higher if the vaccine has no effect on deaths. Why did some outfit even publish this useless number?
Let’s look at the charts.
In the map, I see two cloned, standout states: Idaho and Wyoming. Then, below, I see Wyoming with (conflicting?) high numbers in the bar charts of badness. Where is Idaho? If Wyoming’s numbers are meaningful, aren’t Idaho’s?
Speaking of bar charts: What do they show? A few states have high numbers, while most have similar, low numbers. Well, if all states – over time – were identical, noise would make such charts look exactly like this.
But, hey, who cares about using bad information, so long as today’s chart makes us comfortable in our decisions.
I’m comfortable with my decisions:
1) Get vaccine. Long term vaccine dangers are irrelevant to me, personally. Short term, the big numbers say Pfizer/Moderna/AZ/J&J help. Also, the techie in me is really jazzed about both the vaccine tech and the management that got these vaccines rolled out last year. I love pleasant surprises.
2) Get lightly exposed to Covid. In-the-wild exposure will grow inside me a more diverse population of up-to-date, anti-Covid thingees than will a vaccine.
3) Don’t worry. Covid ain’t Ebola. I’m in OK shape. Focusing on issues with 1 in 5000 odds is just free entertainment.
dtj
dtj
4 years ago
The super spreader event in Mass. made news today and the stats look a lot different than Utah. Most of the infected were vaccinated, 79% of those were symptpomatic and 4 out of 5 hospitalized were vaccinated. Worse, the vaccinated can have high viral loads and therefore spread covid just like the unvaccinated. What then?
Is it the un-vaccinateds fault? What happens when a vaccine resistant strain inevitably emerges? Will it be the fault of the vaccinated?
For people cheering on the federal employee vaccine mandate, this is the beginning of vaccine passports in the U.S. which I never thought would happen. All employers are going to get on board now and the vaccine passport train can’t be stopped. The CDC will determine whether or not you will be getting into the local Costco based on when you had the latest yearly Pfizer booster shot which looks to be a different vaccine every year to stay ahead of the mutations.
Webej
Webej
4 years ago
  • Inquiring minds may wish to note that vaccinated people are routinely exempt from testing, so it is no surpise that only vaccinated positives (‘cases’) are detected. Break-through cases generally only come to light if they are symptomatic. In other words, the vaccinated are asymptomatic spreaders whereas unvaccinated people report to bed.
  • Inquiring minds may wish to note there is good evidence that the delta variant is more contagious but less virulent (’lethal’)
  • Inquiring minds may wish to note that the VAERS death number was just halved recently, so much for data
  • Inquiring minds may wish to note that causality is almost impossible to prove for vaccine effects (generally, not just Covid)
  • Inquiring minds may wish to note that a different standard is being applied for adverse events (within 28 days, now demanding proven causality) than for Covid deaths (within 28 days of a positive PCR). Covid deaths have been revised downwards by huge percentages in many jurisdictions, and still have much the same status as deaths ‘caused’ by a heat wave.
  • Inquiring minds may wish to note that NY Coroner’s office recorded only 7 cases of Covid death were noted for >75 years of age, and the CFR for people with no co-morbidities is much smaller than 6 months of car driving across all age cohorts.
  • Inquiring minds may wish to note that in many European countries, ICU occupancy (which has been used as the accelerant for public confinement measures) were lower in 2019-2021 than any of the past 10 years.
Carl_R
Carl_R
4 years ago
Make no mistake, the vaccine will not always prevent infection. I was fully vaccinated with Pfizer back in April. I tested positive last Tuesday. I had all the normal symptoms: Headache, runny nose, indigestion, sore throat, diarrhea, low grade fever, and fatigue, lots and lots of fatigue.  Thanks to the vaccine, however, the infection was slowed, and my body had a chance to develop additional responses, and i’m feeling better today. I should be well by next week sometime. I have no doubt whatsoever that with the vaccine I’d have been in the hospital, or worse.
The worst was yesterday. I had to go into the office (when no one was around) and sign two checks, which look about 20 seconds. By the time I got home, I was so exhausted, I had to sleep for two hours. I really don’t care if someone doesn’t want to take the vaccine. That’s their problem. I do think it’s an unwise choice, however.
Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear
4 years ago
I can’t trust the government or pharma. The statistics the government collected were misleading. Government officials desperately want people vaccinated, but give pharma companies legal immunity for any negative effects people may experience. The government is disingenuous trying to get everyone vaccinated, but welcomes unvaccinated illegal aliens into the US. Instead of shutting down international air travel, the government blames unvaccinated people as the problem. The government hasn’t convinced me they are looking out for me.
I know my immune system better than any bureaucrat. I’m not invincible, but I’m willing to take a chance going unvaccinated. One of my relatives got COVID and survived. Yes it was painful for an elderly person with other health conditions, but I don’t have those conditions. I also stay away from crowds, which probably is just as effective as the vaccine.
LM2022
LM2022
4 years ago
It was always a fantasy that we could get everyone vaccinated.  There’s a contingent of Don’t Tread On Me nut jobs that think being asked to wear a mask is an infringement on their inalienable rights and that Bill Gates is trying to implant microchips inside them through a vaccine.  You can’t reason with some people. 
Corvinus
Corvinus
4 years ago
Reply to  LM2022
What I find crazy is the overwhelming trust the science groupie contingent places in big pharma and their good intentions. There seems to me to be a good deal of cognitive dissonance involved here where people who would otherwise be complaining about the corruption surrounding big pharma (after all, it’s the biggest lobbyist in D.C. ) and it’s ability to influence government are, in this case, all in because “Science, bro.”
Corvinus
Corvinus
4 years ago
I also find it curious that there’s not much (if any) discussion about natural immunity for those that have already contracted it. Why is that? I got the Covid in April and all I experienced was the loss of smell for about 3 days – why should I need to get lectured about how immoral the unvaccinated are when I’m already carrying antibodies for the thing?
Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear
4 years ago
Reply to  Corvinus
I would really be interested in studies of natural immunity. Those with natural immunity give vaccines an artificially high success rate.
Carl_R
Carl_R
4 years ago
Reply to  Corvinus
It’s not being ignored. There was a recent MedCram video on youtube comparing the immunity given by natural infection to the immunity given by the vaccine. It was very similar, and the best immunity was people who had had Covid, and also had 1 shot of vaccine.  So, if you’ve had covid, your immunity is comparable to those who are vaccinated. If you want to increase your resistance even more, you can get a shot of vaccine, but it would also be reasonable to live with the immunity you already have.
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
BS!  The mRNA/DNA vaccines are built for a specific spike protein configuration, which is why they don’t work well for variants (mutations) and why people will need regular booster shots to deal with each new variant.
Natural immunity (which we still don’t know how it works in total) is able to handle variants/mutations w/o getting sick again.  Therefore, natural immunity is clearly better than artificial mRNA induced protection. 
I don’t use the word immunity with the mRNA/DNA vaccines because they don’t actually provide immunity.  I still don’t understand why they can only reduce the potential seriousness of Covid but not actually block it in total.  Nor why live virus can apparently remain in people’s throats and noses to be transmitted to others when depending on the these new vaccines..
Carl_R
Carl_R
4 years ago
Reply to  Jojo
The reason why the vaccines can reduce hospitalizations and deaths so dramatically, even if they don’t prevent cases entirely, is a function of how Covid works. When Covid enters your body, your body’s immune system tries to shut it down. Meanwhile, covid tries to shut down your body’s immune system. It becomes a race, and what happens in real life is that sometimes the body wins, and the case is shut down quickly with little or no symptoms, and sometimes Covid has it’s way, and the case turns severe quickly. Thus most cases are at one extreme or the other, either mild cases, or awful cases.
Even when a immune response produced by a vaccine is not strong enough, or accurate enough, to completely shut down covid, it still slows covid, and that, in turn, buys your body the time it needs to mount additional immune responses. Thus, for a person like me, who was vaccinated, and who had a breakthrough infection, my immune response from the vaccine was not enough to halt Covid in it’s track, but it did slow covid down, buying me valuable time, and allowing my body to develop additional antibodies, etc, and those, in turn were able to completely eliminate Covid from my system.
Yes, my body’s own immune response was what eliminated Covid, and yes, now i have an even broader set of antibodies than I got from the vaccine alone. Had I not been vaccinated, would my body have been fast enough to shut down Covid before it shut down my immune system? I suspect that, had I not been vaccinated, my immune response would have been too slow, and my case would have turned out badly.  I knew going in that my WBC is on the low end of normal at 3.5-4.0, and my lympocyte/monocyte ratio, at 3.4-4.0 is also unfavorable, so a battle with Covid was likely to be a hard one. Thanks to the vaccine, it was not too bad.
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
That sounds like witch doctor “science” and doesn’t make any logicial sense.  What is your source for this?  Cites required.
The human body has millions of years of evolution history successfully fighting a wide variety of viruses.  We’re still here and procreating rampantly, which shows that the immune system generally works just fine.
Those whose immune systems CAN be shutdown by a virus should be considered genetically weak and their anticipated demise a part of “weeding the herd”.
strataland
strataland
4 years ago
Common sense – What is so wrong with incorporating FDA vaccine approval status in one’s consideration of whether to vaccinate or not? If our leaders had any common sense they would restructure the FDA vaccine approval process. If the drug is safe, why does it not yet have FDA approval? Perhaps long-term side affect study matters.
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  strataland
Of course long-term side effects matter!  See my post here on this subject:
ajc1970
ajc1970
4 years ago
You really can’t make conclusions without accounting for seasonality (for example, relative to the rest of the country, the Southeast surged in cases last summer before doing well all winter), age (“older” states will have a higher CFR) and obesity (not even sure how you’d normalize for this, but we know it matters and we know not all regions of the country are the same).
Blurtman
Blurtman
4 years ago
Dare one ask how are things in Sweden?
Carl_R
Carl_R
4 years ago
Reply to  Blurtman
For reasons unknown, all of the Scandinavian countries had very low deaths to Covid.  Sweden had far higher deaths than the other Scandinavian countries, and sustained more damage to it’s economy than the other countries as well, but neither were as bad as many expected.
Dr. Manhattan23
Dr. Manhattan23
4 years ago
Why the need for liability immunity? 
Peter_from_Dallas
Peter_from_Dallas
4 years ago
The problem with making comparisons to between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated cases in the US now is that the two numbers no longer represent the same thing.  Starting a few months ago, the CDC changed how they count a case if your vaccinated.  If you are unvaccinated, you’re a case if you test positive even if you have no symptoms.  If you’re vaccinated, you’re only a case if you test positive AND you get admitted to the hospital because of COVID.  A few states are ignore the  guidelines – I think Missouri is one of them – but most are following the guidelines.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Doing that on purpose, produces official misinformation.
QTPie
QTPie
4 years ago
That’s irrelevant. Just look at hospitalizations and deaths only then. The fact is that the vaccinations work, period.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines and several others in development are actually a form of Gene Therapy. 
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
You might want to elaborate on it.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
This should explain it to you. It gives the official definition.
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Basically a good executive summary, even though it’s dated and doesn’t mention mRNA vaccines.
What it doesn’t explain (because it’s not meant to) is that the same mechanisms have supported life for hundreds of million of years, and are going on millions times in your body even as you speak, vaccinated or not.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Executive summaries are good for those who don’t have a background but I see you do.
Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Here is a scientific reading on the subject: How you make an Adenovirus vaccine:
Blurtman
Blurtman
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Failed gene therapy approach to replace faulty proteins.  The body recognized the inserted functional protein as foreign, and rejected it, and the lightbulb turned on – let’s turn it into a vaccine approach.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  Blurtman
Yes it did. As often the case in science a failure became the basis for success in something different.
Bay-Brit
Bay-Brit
4 years ago
This is a cartoon of 1802 about the first vaccine for cow pox.

KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
If vaccines are as effective as they say, why do the vaccinated care whether or not someone else is vaccinated?
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Oh please. Surely by now you know the answer to that. Vaccines can only eradicate disease when almost the entire population is effectively immunized. Otherwise you can look forward to the variant of the season from now on.
And  even if we don’t eradicate COVID completely, we need to get it more manageable than it is now.
Too many people want perfect. There is no perfect. Good, however, is not the enemy of perfect. It’s often as good as it gets.
ajc1970
ajc1970
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
“Vaccines can only eradicate disease “
Tangent, but these are non-sterilizing (aka “leaky”) vaccines.  They can not and were never even advertised as a way to eradicate a disease.
Wipe eradication out of your mind, it’s not happening, like the flu, SARS COVID is indefinitely intertwined with humanity.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  ajc1970
I expect you are probably correct. But there is no doubt…..none….that high vax rates benefit the public at large.
And we could only find out if COVID could be eradicated if we had near 100% vax rates…without that it could never happen in any case. The truth is that you have no evidence other than a generally cogent argument. How about some real data?
ajc1970
ajc1970
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
“But there is no doubt…..none….that high vax rates benefit the public at large.”

Vaccination protects the vaccinated from COVID and for most, that benefit outweighs the known adverse effects of the vaccination.

Whether it benefits the “public at large” remains to be seen.  We rarely use non-sterilizing vaccines on humans, but we long hypothesized and now have evidence (via Marek’s Disease in chickens) that non-sterilizing vaccines remove the selective pressure on a virus to become less virulent while simultaneously providing the virus a place to reside and transmit freely.  With Marek’s Disease, a very benign virus in chickens developed into one that is 100% lethal and endemic in chicken populations.  Now any chicken that doesn’t get the non-sterilizing vaccine basically has a death sentence.
If your response to that is, “well, everybody needs to get the COVID vaccine then,” I’d ask what you say to people who might have medical reasons the preclude them from that vaccination, or even groups like Jehovah’s Witnesses who have some kind of pure blood worship going on and their religion truly forbids it.
If COVID takes the same path as Marek’s, we’ve really f*d this up.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  ajc1970
You have to be very very careful with vaccines. Marek’s disease is not an isolated example unfortunately. 
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  ajc1970
So….I can’t prove it, but think I can make a fairly cogent argument that a half-assed vaccine program that barely includes 56% of the over-age-12 population of the country  is the RECIPE for creating a Marek’s situation. 
Go slow, vaccinate some but not all. Wait for new and worse variants, Perhaps tweak the vaccine or create anew one specifically for the bad variants…..but still some people don’t get it…..creating yet another population to pass around some new and possibly more deadly variant……rinse, repeat. Give it a few years and you’re there.
The best vaccine program would have been 100% of the population, asap…..no exceptions, and the consequences of that would have almost certainly been less morbidity and mortality than what we will end up getting the way we’re going. And it would have reduced the chances of breeding super-bugs.
I would say that just not vaccinating anybody……and letting COVID kill the weak……might have been one way to get herd immunity…..except the loss of life would not have been socially accepted. That’s how we created bees that are resistant to Varroa mites, right? It just took 90% losses to get there. 
Without the vaccine, I expect we would be in a worse place than we are, regardless of the possible untoward long term effects. I think your  concern is warranted, but the circumstances justify the fast roll-out and they justify vaccinating almost everyone. Most of the people who are resisting have no good reason not to get the shot. The groups that have legitimate health concerns are quite small.
Don’t get me started on what I think about exceptions on religious grounds. 
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
One big plus for the vaccine is that there may be some indications that it gives partial immunity against the common cold. Here is the study funded by Johns Hopkins.
ajc1970
ajc1970
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
I hadn’t seen that yet, but it’s not actually surprising — roughly 1/3 of colds are coronaviruses (most the rest are rhinoviruses), classified by their shape. Immune systems work by shape.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  ajc1970
Yes they do and although preliminary if true then that would be a good reason to get the vaccine. I am surprised that that hasn’t come up yet. Imagine, no more colds.
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
…. haven t got a link but I must ve read somewhere it even works against sweaty feet….. Keep m deluded they must ve thought…. my belgian accent improving ?….Chauvinist ! 🙂
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
So, how come we haven’t all died from Marburg? There’s no vaccine for it.
QTPie
QTPie
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
Becuase the unvaccinated are much more likely to spread the disease to populations which can’t get vaccinated.
Also, the unvaccinated use up a ton of health resources when they invariably get sick – which causes everyone’s health insurance rates to go up.
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  QTPie
If you’re vaccinated, you’re not a person who can’t be vaccinated. And COVID care is mostly paid for by the government. So, again, why should they care?
And any argument to the effect of benefits to society falls on deaf ears because we allow lots of infected individuals into the US at our southern border and transport them around the country.
mrusa
mrusa
4 years ago
Wow, even you Mish.  Even by the statistics you’ve presented the rates are extremely low.
thimk
thimk
4 years ago
Sad but true. The mistrust of government is epidemic as also is the the quantity of  misinformation.  Many of the old farts that attend  my gym are staunch anti-vaxxers and many have underlying medical issues.  I am located in a fervent right  wing county of Florida  .  Give me liberty or give me death is the battle cry .  Be careful of what you ask for .       
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  thimk
They are still there aren’t they? That should tell you something.
whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
If 100 people play Russian Roulette, 83 of them might still be there after that.    That should tell us something?!
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
Covid is not anything like Russian Roulette so it’s  a false analogy and a dumb one at that. Come up with something better. Use your mind.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
Ivermectin works well against Covid. Why is it being blocked by the FDA, when it could save lives?
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
4 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
With billions of dollars to spare one can convince quite a lot of people about the ‘right’ stategy to choose…
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
4 years ago
Reply to  thimk
‘MISINFORMATION’ ?  …You mean like CNN wanting you to get poisoned, at all costs ?
whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago

The anti-vax movement has strong parallels with other things like denial of the harmful effects of tobacco, climate crisis denial etc.

“I realized that the same general pattern of arguments—a denialist playbook—has been deployed to reject other scientific consensuses from the health effects of tobacco to the existence and causes of climate change. The same playbook is now being used to deny facts concerning the COVID-19 pandemic.

In brief, the six principal plays in the denialist playbook are:

Doubt the Science

Question Scientists’ Motives and Integrity

Magnify Disagreements among Scientists and Cite Gadflies as Authorities

Exaggerate Potential Harm

Appeal to Personal Freedom

Reject Whatever Would Repudiate A Key Philosophy”


https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-denialist-playbook/

RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway

Doubt the Science

Question Scientists’ Motives and Integrity”

As you know, any scientist who has not parroted the official narrative, has been smeared. Dr Mike Yeadon, formerly a Vice President and Chief Science Officer at Pfizer, is one of those who has been smeared for not parroting. He even threatened to sue the BBC if they didn’t retract something said about him.

What you should be talking about is the official narrative playbook.

TexasTim65
TexasTim65
4 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
Actually all of those are mostly about the ability to make a personal choice for ones self.
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
So, you’re accusing a group of making parallel arguments by making a parallel argument against them. The hypocrisy is overwhelming and obvious.
BillSanDiego
BillSanDiego
4 years ago
If a person has Corona virus in his system when he dies is is 100% certain that he died of Covid. (Those eight gunshot wounds are irrelevant.) If a person dies three days after receiving a vaccination it cannot be assumed that the vaccine was related to his death. This is our modern health care system
whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
Reply to  BillSanDiego
That is the exact opposite of the practice being followed.   “Suppose someone who tested positive for COVID-19 was killed in a car accident. The car accident would be the cause of death.”
Blurtman
Blurtman
4 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
Actually, not true.  If you are 80 years old with a history of HBP and CHF, and die of a stroke while PCR positive, you died of COVID.  If you stroke out after being vaccinated and are PCR positive, you died of COVID.  If you stroke out after being vaccinated and are PCR negative, you died of stroke, not vaccine.
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
I am vaccinated and happy about it but there is a logical flaw creeping into the conversation. If the vaccines work then why wear a mask and if while vaccinated you still can infect someone then why have the vaccine in the first place. Additionally now some are saying that we need a booster every year so I can imagine someone deciding that this is getting somewhat weird and thinking they might as well risk it. The moral argument falls flat for many since it is selective outrage. If you really wanted to do the moral thing you would legislate out of existence companies like Coke and Pepsi who market fructose sugar water so well that generations of people are now obese and kill many more than covid ever will. 
I followed Fauci’s screwup of the response to Ebola so I had low expectations to begin with nevertheless I gave him the benefit of the doubt until the emails came out showing that when Obama put a moratorium on gain of function research on the covid viruses because of the dangers he switched funding to the Wuhan lab to keep it going. That is not good in anybody’s book. That and the military carefully kept Fauci out of the loop in the Warpspeed operation. Something is not right there.
whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
The vaccine only helps to hugely blunt the effects of the infection if you do get infected.  They can’t protect or prevent someone else from getting the disease!    And masks are primarily meant to protect others, not the wearer.  
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
You are making the case to wear masks forever because people do get colds, flu, and all kinds of other things and pass them on to others. Is that is what you are proposing? Then shouldn’t people who have certain diseases have to wear a public mark to protect others? The moral argument doesn’t hold water. Come up with something better.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
4 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
If that’s the case about Masks, then why does anyone who isn’t infected need to wear a mask????
whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
Because it takes a few days even for the infected to know that they are infected.  That’s why.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
Dr. Yeadon says that until you are showing symptoms, one virtually doesn’t have enough viral load to infect others.
Masks on healthy people don’t really work to stop Covid transmission to them, anyway.
Roadrunner12
Roadrunner12
4 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
“Vaccines prevent more than 90% of severe disease, but may be less effective at preventing infection or transmission,” it reads. “Therefore, more breakthrough and more community spread despite vaccination.”
For my own 2 cents you can basically divide people into vaccinated and unvaccinated. Everyone has had an opportunity to make their choice. To achieve herd immunity, we now need the virus to travel through the unvaccinated to achieve herd immunity. I 100% believe that masks are effective and would prevent new infections but it now appears the new mask guidelines are to protect the unvaccinated which is somewhat bizarre as they have made their choice that vaccination is unneccesary.
The reality is that whatever you believe it is true, you can find it on the internet. I remember many years ago when a co-worker got caught up in a global prosperity anti-tax scam. He came to work everyday with a new theory everyday as to why you didnt have to pay taxes such  your not a real person, the government is a corporation, King James said you didnt have to, income taxes are voluntary, etc. etc. He eventually lost $100,000 on that scam. You couldnt tell him anything otherwise, he wanted to believe.
 It does appear ironic that mask having served a very important purpose in preventing transmission are now being used to protect the very people who generally think covid is a joke, a hoax or just a flu.
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
4 years ago
Reply to  Roadrunner12
not a hoax not a joke;  A BLATANT OUTRIGHT FRAUD ..a multi billion $ fraud of course….because the jabs are undeniably POISONOUS with unpredictable longterm consequences !
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
4 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
….the ONLY effect the vaxxines will have is that the, NEVER isolated virus might NEVER disappear and will only get stronger THANKS TO YOU the vaxxed lab rats… With all respect btw, to my, mostly jabbed, friends and my much younger adorable lady friend, succumbing to social/ laboral pressure and outrageous msm brainwashing….They couldn t help it…
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels
You type with a Belgium accent. Drop the upper case letters except at the beginning of sentences and proper names.
Blurtman
Blurtman
4 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
And the vaccines to protect the vaccinated, not the unvaccinated.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
Not a logical flaw a all. It is simply a big numbers game.  
Masks protect both the wearer and others. How much exactly? That’s certainly debatable and it depends on what you’re measuring and what you consider “effective”  The viral loads for Delta are 1000X of the original. I’ll take a reduced viral load, thank you. It’s worked for me for over 30 years. I don’t need a study. I am a walking study. I am high risk to spread COVID, because of my job. I wear a mask at work to protect myself and the public I serve. I wear one in the grocery store for the same reasons.
Vaccines protect a fair number of people from getting sick who otherwise would get sick. Not 100%. If we’re talking Delta, it might be 70%. That is a win.  It also results in preventing most serious disease for those who get breakthrough infections. That’s a win. A few unfortunate souls have been vaccinated and still got sick and died of COVID. That does not negate all the positives, which are overwhelming.
I’d be the first to call Fauci a mealy-mouthed crook with plenty of culpability for this whole mess. Nobody should listen to him..
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
The logical flaw I saw was the circular reasoning used to justify mask-wearing and vaccination. Vaccines do work and I took them even though the serologic tests my wife and I took just before showed that we both already had antibodies against covid. Catching covid and surviving gives you better T-cell immunity so we decided the more the merrier. If you are a certain age it is logical to take the vaccines. If you are younger it might be another case because they do not run the same risk. Therefore it is a personal decision and up to the individual. These vaccines are very good but they are new and although the side effects have been incredibly low one cannot and should not rule out possible long-term effects. In that way the unvaccinated are the control group and I think we should respect their wishes especially since covid has a very low death rate among healthy people.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
“Irrational Fear of the Shot”
No. I keep reading comments by people who had severe adverse reaction to the vaccines. Those can’t be wished away with a wave of the hand. I have good reason not to consider the vaccines to be safe.
People are dying because they are being denied outpatient treatment with HCQ, Ivermectin, or other therapies, because of a one track obsession with vaccines.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
The problem with anecdotal evidence that isn’t supported by the numbers is that it’s basically just noise.  Over a billion people vaccinated…and the problem cases are statistically very close to zero.  I’m all for good treatment, too, but vaccination is still your best bet. Do the math.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Too many problem cases to be just noise. There shouldn’t be any if the vaccines are actually safe. The pharma companies won’t even stand behind their own product, so  they don’t consider them to be safe.
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Except cases were already rapidly falling before the vaccines were widely available. There’s no way to tell if the vaccines work or people became immune because they recovered naturally.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
4 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
I think an equally big fear is the long term ramifications of taking the shot especially if you need a yearly boost.
No one knows exactly what the effects might be 5, 10 or 20 years down the line and it may well have adverse effects for a certain class of people.
Jojo
Jojo
4 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
History is littered with drugs that seemed good at the onset but later proved to be dangerous or even deadly. 
Recall Fen-Phen, the miracle weight loss drug that was removed from the market after it was discovered that it cause heart valve problems?
Thalidomide that was a widely used drug in the late 1950s and early 1960s for the treatment of nausea in pregnant women? It caused severe birth defects in thousands of children!
The COX-2 Inhibitors from the early 2000’s (e.g. Vioxx, Celebrex and Bextra) that were heavily advertised as being better at reducing inflammation & pain with less risk of stomach bleeding or ulcers?  They looked safe until it was discovered that they all increased the risk of heart issues and strokes. Celebrex is now the only remaining one still on the market.
We don’t yet know if the mRNA/DNA vaccines are truly safe.  The famous Salk Institute published research last April of vascular damage from the spike protein (which is released by these new vaccines to teach the immune system to react to a Covid infection). 
Perhaps we will discover long-term problems with these vaccines down the road.  What if similar problems to the above examples were discovered after 2-3 years?
EWM
EWM
4 years ago
Why the Distrust? Because politicians are liars. People with common sense don’t listen to known liars.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
Dr. Gottlieb: “Some of the states hardest hit by the Delta surge showing some indication that their epidemic waves could be starting to peak.”
The weekly % change in average Covid cases in Missouri is already declining.  The end of last week, in Los Angles County, new daily cases hit 3,100. This Thursday was only 100ish higher. May be losing steam here as well.
JONZDOG
JONZDOG
4 years ago
Thinning the herd.   However I heard the conjecture linked to Cleveland clinic studies that the Covid acquired gives you much better T stem antibodies than the vaccine.   So when the new future variant arrives on the scene and has a higher breakthrough rate than the Delta.   Those who have the antibodies from the illness will be better protected.  BTW,  with the vaccine and Covid infected have we not exceeded 70 % in some communities leading to acquired herd immunity.  For the record I am fully vaccinated.  
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
I had a genius mom yesterday show up with her kids for routine dental cleanings , and then refuse treatment because she objected to us taking her kids’ temperatures.
I have found that there is a small but significant number of people who really have a problem with the little skin scanners we use to to take temps now. It’s completely non-invasive…..but because it looks to them like some kind of ray-gun, they think they’re being irradiated, It’s a deep level of ignorance coupled with a distrust of authority, basically. 
It’s the equivalent of bush people thinking a photograph will steal their soul. 
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
It’s ridiculous to believe that a photograph will steal your soul. It’s cumulative. One picture won’t do it. You need thousands before the effect kicks in. That’s why famous people who are constantly having their pictures taken no longer have souls and it shows.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
One problem is that anti-vax sentiment was already widely present and being reinforced on social media well before this pandemic….lots of bad information had already been spun out of the whole cloth….and ginned up out of repetition of long-debunked bad science. 
I said a few weeks back that I expect anti-vaxxers to be increasingly marginalized as it become very apparent that they are a big part of everybody’s shared problem. I don’t see so many morons showing up here anymore to brag about not being vaccinated.
I’m considering trying to get a 3rd shot of a different vaccine than the Moderna I took in December and January. The evidence seems to suggest a benefit. Israel, which got the highest compliance and used Pfizer 100% , is giving a 3rd Pfizer shot already.
The word on the Delta variant is: Younger. Quicker. Sicker.  
Dr. Vuong says it exactly the way it should be said,
JONZDOG
JONZDOG
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Younger. Quicker.  Sicker.  But the deaths are not occuring like with the original Covid.  Last year my hospital had (May) 84 covid.  Now we have 9 Covid.  I do think they now know how to treat it better.  
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  JONZDOG
I would hope so. But the better outcomes are about as clearly correlated with prior vaccination as anyone wishing for more evidence could ever hope to see.  
People are still dying though, and the Delta variant has not yet run its course.
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Well, Eddie , here I am, UNVAXXED and proud of it , I am a bit fed up with Mishtalk and its economic unpredictable predictions so I hardly comment these days…till I saw the above article!  NOPE Eddy, the vaccines DO NOT work and are undeniably poisonous, unless you think graphene oxide is candy, it is official now that Pfizer has secret contracts with countries, stipulating  that  the effectiveness of their never tried before gene therapy  is NOT guaranteed and that they DO NOT accept any responsability if things go wrong….In other words Eddie, you, and (b)(m)illions with you, are merely LAB RATS  in a never seen before OUTRAGEOUS medical EXPERIMENT ! I ‘d suggest you have a closer look at what s going on in ‘exemplary’ vaxxed nations,  , preferably NOT relying on biased sources like Biden’s CNN mouthpiece! These days even OFFICIAL sources in some countries like vaxxination pioneer Israel are beginning to express ‘politically correct’ yet serious doubts about the ongoing vaxxination FRAUD !  Thanks for your attention Ed , take care of yourself for NOTHING is guaranteed ….apart from a new form of DICTATORSHIP in the name of fn Covid ! Covid that NEVER killed all the people they officially claim it did kill !  COVID IS THE BIG LIE OF THE CENTURY !
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels
You are way too smart to be taking that tack. I hope you stay lucky, my friend.
QTPie
QTPie
4 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels
You’re an idiot.
TexasTim65
TexasTim65
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
I’m not vaccinated and neither is any of my family.
We all had Covid in January and shrugged it off easier than we do a common cold, never mind the flu. That proved to us that we don’t need a vaccine because we are healthy enough or have the right gene pool to deal with it.
I don’t wear a mask and neither does anyone else I socialize with in Florida and I’m not the least worried about catching it again.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
And you will probably be fine. Kicking the disease without a vaccination or treatment is a good sign. I can’t argue with that. But the problem is if you haven’t been sick, you really have no idea what will happen. I’m pretty tough too, but I can do the math, and I understand where my risk lies. A lot of people don’t.
QTPie
QTPie
4 years ago
Reply to  TexasTim65
That is no “proof” whatsoever.
I know a husband and wife who got COVID last month. Both were unvaccinated (religious folks). The husband had practically no symptoms but the wife passed away from the COVID illness. Why in the world would you take the chance?
whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
Reply to  QTPie
I think it is only a question of time before health insurance companies will say that they won’t pay your COVID medical bills unless you were vaccinated, or you can produce documented medical reasons why you could not take the vaccine.   
ILHawk
ILHawk
4 years ago
1.  Create a fat tax or heavily tax fat foods.
2.  Approve Novavax which uses old tech. 
john_byrne
john_byrne
4 years ago
Reply to  ILHawk
AstraZeneca and J&J vaccines use old tech too. Only the Pfizer and Moderna ones use the new mRNA technology.
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
4 years ago
Reply to  john_byrne
no they don t ! IT IS ALL NEW !  The only ‘old tech ‘ is chinese stuff not registered in our ‘democratic’ western nations, stuff that allegedly doesn t work…. They would say that wouldn t they? Meantime China  seems to be doing quite well…..
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels
The Chinese vaccine sucks as does the Russian one.
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
4 years ago
Reply to  Doug78
maybe,  ‘ours’ though seems to be increasingly ‘sucking’ to…and this is still plain summer…although a bit rainy…
Doug78
Doug78
4 years ago
Reply to  FromBrussels
The suck level is defined as being below 50% effective. That is where the Chinese and Russian ones are. The weather here in Paris sucks too, cold and rainy and generally the coolest for decades. 

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