A twisted setup in Gaza allows both Israel and Hamas to play the blame game for Israel’s attack on Rafah.
Eurointelligence discusses Rafah’s Red Lines
Israel continued its military operation in Rafah while Hamas accepted the ceasefire and hostage release proposal. Both statements together make no sense. But a closer look reveals that this is just part of twisted plot where both sides aim for something more while laying the blame for death and destruction on the other side. This haggling over the terms of a ceasefire while crossing the red line in Rafah is cynical, both to the people in Rafah and the families of the hostages. It will now be up to the US and other states to decide whether a red line is a red line, or whether the goal posts have changed yet again.
Yesterday could well turn out to be one of those watershed moments. An invasion of Rafah increases the risk of escalating violence on both sides and between their communities and protesters in the world. What is even more cynical is that increased violence between the two camps could be instrumentalized politically by both negotiation teams.
The sequence of yesterday’s events was that after Israel started the evacuation and bombing in Rafah, Hamas informed Qatar and Egypt that it agreed on a cease-fire proposal. The message was immediately celebrated by the people in Gaza, prematurely as it turns out, as bombing continued in the night. Hamas’s intent was to signal to the Palestinians that they are not the obstacle to spare Rafah from the bombing, raising their hopes and pointing the finger at Israel. But the terms of this deal were bent to such an extent that they no longer were acceptable to Israel. The war cabinet decided unanimously to continue with its operation in Rafah to pressure Hamas for accepting Israel’s conditions.
Benjamin Netanyahu had been oscillating between a hard stance of his government on achieving Israel’s war goals, and accepting negotiations over a military pause with Hamas in Egypt over the past week. Shortly after accepting the truce proposal from Egypt, Netanyahu promised to invade Rafah no matter what Hamas would decide.
Terms of the Deal
Why should Hamas accept a deal in which Netanyahu promised to invade Rafah no matter what Hamas would decide?
But Hamas wanted a permanent cease fire it knew Israel would not accept.
Both Israel and Hamas have vowed to destroy each other, even using the same “river to sea” slogan. Under that setup how could any truce ever last?
Reader Comments
One of my readers made this accurate assessment.
If all or most of your entire family has been killed, your home turned to dust, your home state/country invaded, no work, checkpoints, dirty water, no schools and when there were school they taught you who the oppressor was and that they were the devil, no future, hungry, embargos against you, etc, etc I would (and many of you as well) become a “terrorist” too. At that point, what do you have to lose?
If you can’t love your neighbor, at least leave them alone. Americans struggle understanding “terrorism” and yet it isn’t that hard. Just takes putting yourself in someone else’s shoes.
A second reader commented:
Assume Israel achieves their goal to destroy Hamas. How long before a new Hamas cell emerges and starts it all again?
Hatred for your fellow man runs deep in many; you can see it in this comment section from both sides; but it isn’t restricted to religious or racial hatred; you even seen generational hatred in this comment section, political hatred, gender hatred etc.
Hate isn’t going away any time soon. Particularly when you have political leaders who are leading the charge, fomenting hatred for any group that they think will help their political popularity.
For proof, just read the comments section of a blog like this.
Breaking the Cycle of Violence
Millions of Palestinians and Israelis who just want to live a life without someone trying to take their land or kill them are held hostage by extremists.
Eventually, to break the cycle of violence, it must be a land for peace deal that is fair to both sides. Unfortunately, eventually can mean decades. It already has.
Until a Hamas or Israeli leader takes it upon himself to genuinely seek a fair proposal, eventually may be never.
Having red lines and ignoring them does not help. Netanyahu does not help, and in fact is a huge part of the problem.
The US has proven time and time again (Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Vietnam, Israel) that trying to be the world’s policeman is a losing policy.
I suggest we stop, and stop taking sides too. There is only one side, peace. That means no arms to Israel.
Meanwhile, eventually seems further off than ever. Trapped in the process are millions of innocent Palestinians and Israelis who just want to live a life without someone trying to take their land or kill them.
Conversation of the Day
I posted that Tweet yesterday with this comment “Please play that clip. Then tell me what the Hell Israel stands to gain.“
I also asked questions.
Who, if not Hamas, will be the first to evacuate?
As the horror stories mount on both sides, some of us are sick of the whole damn thing. I see nothing to dance and cheer about.
What possible benefit is there in telling Hamas where the next strike will be, when Hamas will be the first to evacuate?
I received no answers.
Biden Reiterates Clear Position
Yesterday, I noted Biden Reiterates Clear Position, Israel Attack on Rafah Begins Anyway
No one believes or cares about Biden’s clear positions. They are meaningless. Meanwhile, there is no chance of breaking the cycle as long as Netanyahu is in power.
Hat Tip to Hank and PapaDave for quotes used in the article.
Back at ya Mish. Thanks for being the Captain of this ragamuffin dysfunctional team
Every time you hear someone blame Israel for the humanitarian crisis, remember that Hamas could save the people tomorrow by surrendering, Egypt could allow refugees, the rest of the world could be building a port to evacuate those at highest risk, the rest of the world could be negotiating with Egypt to allow refugees to transit through their country to another final destination, other nations could offer to help release the hostages by seizing Hamas assets or prosecuting them as terrorists.
Everyone is choosing to force the people in the Gaza strip to suffer. Israel is the only country seeking to end the conflict. If you don’t like their approach, implement a better one.
… except they all hate each other with the fire of a thousand suns for all the horrible things they’ve done to each other over the decades.
There will be no rational solution.
The redlines and withholding arms are just theatre so Biden can look strong. It’s all well choreographed.
Alerting the Palestinians to flee saves Palestinian civilian lives. If Hamas evacuates first they end up leaving behind much equipment, and their infrastructure will be further destroyed. And there may be traps waiting for them on the other side. Israel is trying to limit civilian casualties.
Palestinians have no right of return. But they certainly have the right to fight to try to return. The longer they keep fighting the worse the outcome for them.
If you think the Israel/Gaza situation is tricky, just review the catholic/protestant issue of Northern Ireland. At least the Irish are Christian and have occupied their country for thousands of years so you’d think a solution would have been easily achievable.
The US has little to offer since it’s done such a great job of losing trust around the globe – especially the MENA.
Any workable solution to the ME will take generations to fully implement but I’ve no idea how anything could be enforced. The Irish issue has still not been put to bed.
Am still waiting for any real analysis as to why Hamas decided to go ahead with attack on Israel.
Was It?
A) Isolated Terrorist Suicide attack
B) Test of Israel’s defense capabilities so as to enable a wider and broader attack to follow up such as from Hezbollah.
C) Iranian orchestration of wholesale elimination of Israel.
D) Test of US support for Israel as a weak and ineffectual President vacillates.
People call out for peace yet there is no basis for any peace to become real..
Israel response was strong as the State viability came into question. Iron Dome held yet by only a slim amount. If it had failed there was certainly going to be a regional mass attack forthcoming.
This has now descended into all out Blood feud as just short while ago Israel took out Hamas leaders main family members. Blood feuds in general only resolve themselves when nothing left but bodies to be buried.
E. Add messing up any concept of Israel : Saudi Arabia good relations.
Here is an article pointing to some hard facts about Israel’s genocide.
https://sonar21.com/why-israel-is-losing-on-the-diplomatic-front/
Imagine you were the Roman Governor in this region 2,000+ years ago, or our modern IRS. Your orders are keep the peace and protect the Empire. You accept all religions as you are pagan and there is lots of room in your big tent for other gods. So, you accept Judish as it meets your definition of a religion: It is old.” Everything else, like Islam or Christianity is not a religion, but a cult. Because they didn’t exist when you showed up. The IRS deals with this too.
I can’t imagine a scenario where I would stop fighting if my opposition held innocent hostages against their will. Has there been any proof of life to account for the hostages?
I don’t know about this. Most Americans can’t do much fighting because of obesity and its physical problems. Eighty percent of recruits are unfit for service given obesity etc.
Newly posted on the NYT is this unusual take on the pro-Hamas protesters:
What possible benefit is there in telling Hamas where the next strike will be, when Hamas will be the first to evacuate?
1.) Plausible deniability against genocide accusations.
2.) Hamas units will become separated from civilians, which means fewer civilian casualties.
3.) Hamas units will become exposed; attacked immediately or tracked to a location farther away from civilians
4.) Divide and conquer. Smaller units of Hamas are more likely to surrender, be capture, or be killed.
Palestinians (at least those who remained on their stolen land) has been living October 7 every day ever since 1948 when Israel was created by violence and terrorism and with the help of westerners. Westerners cleaned their holocaust sins by creating this historical injustice on the Palestinians people.
Not really and your emotions are cherry picked. You can pick up a phone or tablet and read about the atrocities Muslims have done towards Christians and Jews in centuries before.
This is a good articulation of the delusion that has set in for all of the hamas/palestinian supporters. It’s always someone else’s fault. Remarkable.
Palestinians must be removed from Israel territory or there will never be peace of any kind. This is what the Israel settlers are slowly doing.
Palestinians need their own separate country, not territories inside of Israel proper. the only places for them to go are Jordan or Lebanon, both countries with substantial Palestinian populations now. Here is a recent proposal:
—-
A paradigm for peace: Jordan as Palestine
By MOSHE DANN
April 4, 2024
The two-state solution calls for the creation of a sovereign Palestinian state in all or most of what is called “the West Bank” (Judea, Samaria and eastern Jerusalem) as well as the Gaza Strip. It would be controlled by terrorist organizations, however, so promoting it is a recipe for disaster.
This solution will also not solve the issue of self-determination for Palestinians and it will empower Israel’s enemies. Moreover, it makes no sense since a Palestinian state already exists: the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, which was created in the eastern area of British Mandate Palestine and of which two-thirds of the population consider themselves Palestinians.
A new two-state solution – Jordan/Palestine and Israel – is more viable, reasonable, practical and realistic. It would save lives and offer Palestinians the opportunity of becoming productive and constructive, instead of living under the control of despotic terrorist organizations. That is the real “two-state solution.”
…
https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-795247
This is simply a Jewish land grab attempting to occupy more territory.
Israel as originally conceived in 1948 is the extent of the country. Everything else is conquered territory. This is a large reason why the problem that exists today continues. Seeking to expand that territory more by grabbing the Gaza strip and West back is simply a land grab.
It’s highly unlikely the rest of the world is going to accept this kind of solution.
No, it is to assure the safety of Israel. That can not be done with a population of people embedded inside the country that wants to kill all jews and feels free to shoot rockets into Israel territory on a regular basis.
Stop posting responses just to hear yourself say something. Try to make sense.
I am making sense.
The ‘solution’ you quoted was to forcibly remove all the Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza and dump them in another country (Jordan) under the guise of ‘assuring Israel safety’. Did the article mention how they’d be compensated for this (ie who’s paying for it) or are they getting nothing?
That’s not much different that what was done in say the US in the 1800s when all the Indians were forcibly sent to reservations in Oklahoma to guarantee the settlers safety in early America (See the trail of tears).
Plus, do you really think Iran and other countries would suddenly be buddy-buddy with Israel if such a thing happened? Until all the rest of the Muslim countries also accept the deal the safety of Israel isn’t going to be there.
go listen to either the interview sam harris just did with John Spencer about urban warfare or go watch the video hamas took.
I hope that you are astoundingly ignorant of the savagery that took place on 10/7, because the alternative to that would be much worse.
Tim’s grasp of reality is fleeting, but it’s much better than his grasp of ME history. This might be the dumbest take I’ve read on this topic.
Inshallah, bukra fil Mish-Mish : there are 3/4 weak battalions in Rafa. They are not
in the red evacuation area. They are not in Khan Unis and they are not in Egypt.
Philladelphi is 8/9 miles long. Rafa’s Bedouins are not Palestinians
No one is innocent in Gaza. Almost everyone supported Hamas terrorism. They knew where the rockets and bombs were stored. They knew where the launches of missiles were from. They received 500 trucks of aid every single day on a decades long scam of claiming to be refugees oppressed by Israel. Qatar and other Arab nations sent Gazan’s millions of $$ in cash monthly, which went into Hamaas pockets, paid for weapons and supplies to build their terror network and launch missiles with some remaining small amount distributed to Palestinians in Gaza as bribes.
Hamas paid people to have large families for three purposes – as additional human shields to protect them, as pawns to be used in the media in the event of an Israeli invasion and longer-term, to grow the Palestinian population until it overflowed out of Gaza. People were given apartments, cars, food and household supplies to support Hamas and their terrorism.
Everyone in Gaza is guilty.
By that same logic everyone in America is guilty of all the civilian deaths caused by the US military abroad (of which there are millions). After all, we knew where the soldiers were, we knew we were building missiles, bombs, guns and ammo etc and yet we did nothing.
Knowing something is happening and being in a position to do something about it are 2 different things.
You are simply attempting to rationalize innocent deaths to ease your conscience.
I don’t need to rationalize anything. I write the truth.
So what did we, American citizens, gain from the military adventures abroad? Unlike the Gazans, not much of anything. Do you see the difference?
Nope, I don’t.
If we as citizens didn’t gain anything from our leaders killing a bunch of civilians abroad (your words) and the Gazans didn’t either (as far as I can tell the average Gazan citizen has gained nothing from this) from their leaders killing some Jews then doesn’t that make us the same?
Tim, go watch the video hamas took and then come back.
Tim, I said that your comment above was the dumbest opinion I have read on this topic. I was wrong. You topped it here.
I’m voting for Realityczech to take the prize for the dumbest poster and most ill informed piss ant.
have you seen the video that hamas took? Your ingorance is worse that your stupidity and that’s saying something.
Guess what sunshine? The US government is voted in and maintained by the US citizenry. Everyone knows about the direct and collateral damage yet still vote for the same. Trump or Biden are the result of decades of decay which you choose to ignore.
Tim is struggling with reality. We’re trying to help, but he seems like a proud ignoramus. Not much can be done with that.
When Iraqi’s and Afghani’s defended their neighborhoods, they are DEEMED TERRORISTS by the Hegemon. WE ARE THE BIG “H.”
Hamas leaders worth staggering $11B revel in luxury — while Gaza’s people suffer
Nov. 7, 2023, 5:48 p.m. ET
While their people languish in poverty and are treated as human shields, the leaders of Hamas live billionaire lifestyles.
The terror group’s three top leaders alone are worth a staggering total of $11 billion and enjoy a life of luxury in the sanctuary of the emirate of Qatar.
The emirate has long welcomed the leaders of the terror group and installed them in its luxury hotels and villas at the same time as it hosts a vast American military presence.
…
https://nypost.com/2023/11/07/news/hamas-leaders-worth-11bn-live-luxury-lives-in-qatar/
The crime is 1 million innocent civilian Palestinians held prisoner in Israel’s Gaza concentration camp since 1948.
Hamas says Israel is holding 5 million innocent children and half of those are journalists and doctors.
“Hate isn’t going away any time soon.”
The reason? It’s a uniquely human quality. It’s baked into the “human cake” by our emotional capacities.
Nothing else on earth exhibits the characteristics of hatred. Animals and plants kill others primarily for food. Rarely do they kill in defense of territory or themselves unless severely provoked.
In my view hatred is a form of insanity. It replaces rationality with irrationality.
This is NOT factually correct.
“ Nothing else on earth exhibits the characteristics of hatred. Animals and plants kill others primarily for food. Rarely do they kill in defense of territory or themselves unless severely provoked.”
Whales, Dolphins (Orcas especially), Chimpanzees and Orangutans, Etc. ALL have large brains, all have emotional responses and many live in closer proximity for longer times with each other, than even humans do. They experience Hate, Love, Anger, Sadness, Loneliness, etc.
The more advanced Primates like Chimps and others also can learn basic human language. Unfortunately we are terrible about learning their languages.
Although Apparently we just “Figured Out Sperm Whales have an “Alphabet”…
Humans definitely have a massive problem with Hate and other emotions. We’re not alone in that, when compared to other Advanced (Big Brained) Species. We (some people) like to pretend we are completely unique with emotions though…part of one of our other major problems as Humans, with Hubris as one of our biggest issues.
Cheers!
I’ve seen claims of emotions in animals, but never definitive proof.
I’ll admit there may be evidence for rudimentary emotional responses in animals such as fear and excitement, but I stick with my initial statement….hatred is uniquely human. Hatred is extreme intense blinding anger. Animals do not exhibit this type of exteme behavior. At least I’ve never read about such an instance occuring.
Not true at all. Chimps, at least, have been shown to defend their territory and war on rival groups of chimps. And although they are primarily vegetarians, they will eat their rivals that they kill in raids. Saw this on Nature programs.
Defending territory (i.e. resources) makes sense from a survival point of view. That has nothing to do with emotions let along hatred of a rival chimp troop.
Quotes from tweet: “You are cursed in the Quran”; “We love death the way you love life.”
Fourteen centuries of nihilism…and Israel is expected to deal in a civilized manner with Gaza…how?
And yet we have these projections….they’re from 2015 and I suspect the decline in Christianity has increased over the last 10 years.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/
Demographics is destiny politically, economically, and socially.
One could quote numerous passage from the old Testment, such as the one where satan (aka Yahweh) tells the Israelites to mass murder the Amelek. It’s the favorite passage of devil spawn Netanyahu.
Many people are wringing their hands and saying it has to stop because it sounds better than “I don’t give a fuck.”
One thing is abundantly clear, our government is bought and paid for by the Israeli Lobby. It’s amazing how US politicians have sold their souls for a few pieces of silver. It is truely sickening and explains why this country is in precipitous decline.
Look at the difference in the reporting of the MSM to BLM riots, and to the current protests against the Gaza genocide. Look at how the local politicians are responding. What does that tell you about the hidden hand of power in this country?
Even if Hamas evacuates before hand, they’re pushing them out of the tunnels in the area. Then the Israelis can destroy the tunnels.
Also, if the Mother’s were in charge, I sure bet those children would be moved.
Lastly, after hostage exchanges… if there is a true ceasefire, the test will be if Hamas stops lobbing bombs into Israel.
I remember back in the late 70s and early 80s watching the national TV news several young Palestinian lawyers were talking about negotiating with Israel to form a Palestinian state on the West Bank. There was a lot of interest in this by Israeli lawmakers. Optimism was in the air until each of these young lawyers were assassinated one after another by Arafat’s thugs.
Negotiation with Israel was apparently impossible at that time and it probably continues to this day.
After 10/7, I’m sure many Israelis have had enough. Palestinian stupidity is a durable thing.
I f we are arming both offensive and defensive capabilities to Israeli, they have the upper hand and there is no incentive to stop trying to eliminate the Palestinians. If we limited this to defensive capabilities(iron dome) maybe the 2 sides will exhaust each other(like Europe after WW2) and negotiate. Right now we are picking a winner and Israel wants to win as fast as possible before we change our minds
Iron Dome isn’t perfect. People and property can get hit with shrapnel from rockets that have been hit. And imagine you are in Israel going about your life and the siren sounds indicating rockets are in the air that might hit your area. You have to drop whatever you are doing, leave your food on the table, finish the crap you are taking real quick, gather up family members and head to a bomb shelter for the duration. How long would you put up with this?
Why should Israel be forced to sit back and be attacked multiple times weekly solely to save the lives of Palestinians ruled over by Hamas?
There is another solution besides land for peace…
Its winning and deleting the enemy from the planet. Like all of them Like what Rome did to Carthage.
Not a pleasant thought but probably the answer Israel has, honestly
“I killed myself to give the Palestinians a state. I had a deal they turned down that would have given them all of Gaza,” (Bill) Clinton said.
Better deal than they’ll get this century.
The reverse of the MIsh postulate of that which cannot go on forever won’t. I was in Middle School in 1981 and the Middle East was a mess. Carter/Sadat/Begin in the late 70s. The Shah. Coups. Wars. Picking and funding both sides.
Thus: that which can go on forever will. (and has)
Given that notion you now see why the MIC and Deep Staters push onward–they get enriched by playing all sides at one time or another. We have no way as taxpayers to stop their spending where they are enriched and we are funding it.
So exhausting. So wasteful. Unproductive. Harmful. Self-reinforcing. Perpetual war machine.
Did hear a funny yesterday saying the market was up on (false/made up reason forthcoming) hopes of a ceasefire. I said out loud to the radio: markets are up like 30% since the most recent triggering event of October 7th and subsequent “war” so if the market didn’t fall due to the conflict the market surely didn’t go up on hopes of a ceasefire. The narratives they use for this market’s deficit-fueled froth get sillier all the time.
If you want to know how good your weapons are you need to test them under wartime conditions. Same with tactics, troop and officer training, technological innovation, etc. Want new equipment and supplies? Get rid of the old equipment and supplies. Mideast has been the world’s test bench for the last 75+ years.
Mike: You missed the part about the hostages. Originally. Hamas was going to release 40 hostages in exchange for the release of 1000 Palestinian terrorists. Hamas then reduced to 33 as the number of hostages it would release. Israel accepted that. The latest “acceptance” by Hamas was that a number of the 33 hostages if not all, could be deceased. Only bodies would be returned. That was not acceptable to Israel. But apparently this was fine by the US in regard to the 8 Americans still held hostage by Hamas.
Abortion, guns, and Palestine/Israel. We’ll all be long dead before there is any “solution” to any of these.
In this situation, the only peaceful solution is if Israel yields to Palestinian demands and arranges to emigrate its entire Jewish population to Europe or America or else-West. That is what ‘de-colonization’ means these days. Do you think Israel, or any Israeli leader following Bibi Netanyahu will agree? Particularly when half of Israel’s Jewish population immigrated from, were pushed out of, Muslim lands. The alternative is a continuation of these cycles of violence, which the Palestinians are intent to escalate.
Yes, the U.S.A. should stop being the world’s policeman (so much, or at all, , ,) That means watching as other peoples engage in fights over who possesses what land, what the culture shall be, and what and who shall govern that land; and we shall not intervene one side or the other.
(Being raised is the extension of ‘de-colonization’ or call it ‘great replacement’, where masses of people from the former colonies migrate to the colonizers in Europe and America, and take our land and our governance, from us. This is considered ‘poetic justice’.)
Those fundie Orthodox Jews are ornery… I don’t think anybody would take them.
they are in Brooklyn
In 2005, Israel got out of Gaza entirely. Not one Israeli remained. It left housing, greenhouses, and working farms worth millions of dollars. What did the good, smart Gazans do? Did they walk right into the homes, businesses and farms and pick right up and be productive? No they burned down the homes and looted all the businesses and farms. These are the people of the Two State Solution. Then, after Israel left, Hamas started lobbing mortars into southern Israel- first, by the dozens and then by the hundreds. That is why Israel and Egypt put a blockade around Gaza- to try and slow down the movement of weapons into Gaza.
The useful-idiot donor nations supplied Gaza with billions of dollars to make them self-supporting. Where did the money go? Some went into the private accounts of Mashaal and Haniyeh but most of it went into the construction of hundreds of MILES of tunnels which were designed to facilitate attacks on Israel. If Gaza is the poster boy for the Two State Solution, then Israel would be insane to agree to it.
Hamas is following the word of the Quran. It says to kill the jews wherever you find them. It says to strike the unbeliever in the neck. It says war-is-deceit. It says all property on earth was put here for Muslims to take and that during war, captives can be sex slaves. Islam is a biker-gang cult. What we saw on October 7th, 2023, would be instantly recognized by Mohamed as approved Islam-in-action.
Israel has every right to march into Gaza and exterminate Hamas. Hamas has no voice in how the war will end. It gave up any right to an opinion when it invaded Israel, gang-raped, tortured, mutilated, stabbed, shot, and incinerated 1,200+ Israelis. Sinwar, Deif, Mashaal and Haniyeh will eventually be captured and publicly hanged- as all war criminals must be.
Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise- this is a Holy War by Islam against the west. You can see it gaining strength by all the Gaza/Palestine protests at so many of our ‘esteemed’ universities. Qatar and Saudi Arabia have been bankrolling all the ‘Islamic Studies’ programs at our major universities and all are run by apologists for Islam and have been whitewashing our kids to the historic atrocities Islam has perpetrated on the world. Isn’t it interesting how we hardly hear a peep from MSM on the horrors Islamic militias are currently doing to African tribes and African Christians? Why is the Pope silent? Why are Biden’s biggest donors supporters of these demonstrations? And some of those donors are Jews! What’s wrong with this picture?
But as ‘horror stories on both sides mount,’ as Mish said above, we need to understand that everyone alive on October 6, 2023, would STILL be alive today, living in their homes, if Hamas had simply announced in 2005, “We can live side by side as good neighbors.” But they never did. And never will. The Quran drives them on.
Obama’s foreign policy team over-threw the Egyptian government, installing an obvious front for the Muslim Brotherhood in its place. Egyptians were not amused, and their military quickly removed the Obama appointed government.
Obama’s foreign policy team, with help from Google and Eric Schmidt, attempted to “influence” the Israeli election with social media focused ads and get out the vote fraud — to Netanyahu’s detriment. Obama’s election tampering had mixed results, pushing Netanyahu out for one term (now he is obviously back). It is the Obama version of events that US citizens get to read about in the WSJ, WaPo and other not-neutral media outlets.
And for those living under a rock, the Obama foreign policy team also launched a coup in 2015 in Ukraine.
All three coups are being orchestrated by the same group of bureaucrats; All three are achieving the same level of failure. All three reflect a stunningly childish and naive understanding of history.
Not unlike the crime wave, third world “lawfare” against politcal opponents, a massve illegal immigration wave, and inability to tell male from female “problems” that we are having in the USA. The attempted culture coup in the USA…
And yes, civilians are paying the price in all four cases
that’s a lotta thumbs-ups !
I’d agree with no arms to Israel if there was no aid, humanitarian* or not, to Gaza.
* Hamas appropriated “humanitarian” aid to arm themselves, and would do it again.
Let Zion and Islam fight it out to the bitter end.
No more money or armaments to them.
It’s not an American problem.
if Israel runs out of conventional arms, they will just use the last thing they have. Nukes. Sounds ok to you?
Never forget. Never again!
The Israelis should not have to go it alone, since Islam is a clear and present danger to the whole world. How about a new Crusades with Israel Europe, Russia and China attacking from all sides?
I’m not sure whether you’ll read this Mish, but I just wanted to try to answer the questions you asked:
Q: Please play that clip. Then tell me what the Hell Israel stands to gain.“
A: Israel feels that it must remove Hamas from having political power and control over territory. That gives Hamas the ability to tax, control schools, eliminate political competitors, etc. This is similar to why the world had to remove ISIS from having control of its territory. It won’t make Hamas go away completely, but it will reduce them to the same level of threat as the many other Jihadist terrorist groups. Still bad, but not as bad.
Q: What possible benefit is there in telling Hamas where the next strike will be, when Hamas will be the first to evacuate?
A: Hamas will not evacuate first or even at all. They will fight as you will soon see. Most of the evacuees will be civilians. Hamas needs Rafah because of its vast underground terror tunnel network. Once it loses that, the leaders will be forced above ground where they won’t be able to hide. Yes, some individual members will blend into the population, but the main objective of removing Hamas from controlling territory will be accomplished.
Something tells me the IDF brought in excavators and bulldozers to collapse the tunnels leaving Rafah into the rest of Gaza… similar to what Egypt did on its borders years ago. Egypt destroyed tunnels under a desert, which is relatively “easy” — a little ground radar will find all of them, and there is nothing on the surface to cloud the view.
Its impossible to find every tunnel in Gaza, unless you wreck every building on the surface, dig trenches into streets, and then run ground radar from the bottom of the trenches. If there is a few week lull in the fighting, or if the radar operators know when IDF bombardments are happening… the tunnel network between Rafah and the other areas can be severed.
Israel doesn’t want to just kill the Hamas leadership, they want verification that Hamas leadership is destroyed.
Qatar, UAE and Saudi Arabia have all pledged money to help the civilians rebuild — even if it ends up Gaza remains occupied territory for a decade or so. Elon Musk said he will donate too.
Short term, the situation is a mess for civilians (I wouldn’t want it either). Long term, everyone except Hamas and Hezbollah will benefit from more commerce and trade.
Yes, even the Iranians are comparing trade with China versus endless war.
A slight error in your details. Egypt has had lots of problems with the tunnels under its border. They had to demolish a wide swathe of housing near the border to make it less easy to have the tunnels and their entrances concealed.
Those tunnels help move both terrorists and weapons in and out of Egypt. Hamas is closely linked to the Ikwan which is the Muslim Brotherhood from which it evolved and the terror attacks in Egypt frequently involve those moving to and from Gaza. Those terrorists don’t just target Jews but Coptic Christians like me, as well as other muslims . Most of those they have killed have been muslims such as when they massacred 320 worshippers in a mosque a few years back.
But the morons in US university protests say they are with Hamas, I hope they go to Gaza someday and get to experience Hamas hospitality.
There’s no winning a religious conflict.
Israel should take any deal that releases hostages. Hamas will quickly violate the agreement – because their only reason to exist is to attack Israel. And Israel will use this to justify assassinating more terror leaders – just like the Obama campaign against terror.
Go back to a low cost simmer conflict for another decade. There’s no sense pretending the problem can be solved.
Works well as long as you don’t live in the middle.
“there is no chance of breaking the cycle as long as Netanyahu is in power.”
If you believe this, there is a fundamental misunderstanding of where Israel – meaning the government and Israelis – is with this war. Let’s say Netanyahu is removed from office in 48 hours and is replaced by someone from the opposition parties. This war will continue. That is due to Hamas not surrendering and not releasing hostages.
If the goal of the war is for it to end, that’s the quickest path.
Peace in Our Time
Exactly. A bad temporary ceasefire like 1938 isn’t a permanent peace. If Israel backs down then Hamas will claim victory and rebuild their offensive capability. They had a self governing Gaza Strip for 18 years with no Israeli presence and the chance to show that they could build a functioning state. Instead they used the 18 years to build a state like North Korea where the wealth goes to the Hamas chiefs to live a life of luxury and to building up arms and tunnels to wage Jihad.
Why not get peace like West Germany after the total defeat of the Nazis/ Hamas and install anti Nazi/Hamas Germans/Palastinians to rebuild a peaceful state. Then foreign aid will not be squandered on building tunnels but in building decent infrastructure.
In order for it to work, the bulk of the population has to want peace and change.
After WWII the German population was ready for that (of course it helped that the allies occupied both East and West Germany for decades afterwards and essentially kept the German military from reforming).
The big difference is that in Germany, the people were being freed from a political system they no longer wanted. In Palestine, the political system is essentially an extension of the religion. So far there are no successful attempts to separate the two in Islamic countries (see Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Palestine etc) that we’ve invaded / forced regime change. It’s not clear it can be done because religious belief is infinitely stronger than political belief.
China realizes this and is a primary reason as to why they prosecute their uyghur population and attempt to separate them from their Muslim religion.