What’s the US goal in Ukraine? Is it doable? What about Russia’s goal? Ukraine’s? 
The lead image is from the BBC article ‘People call us the Ghosts of Bakhmut’
Minus the troops, the setup in Ukraine is starting to look like the US fiasco in Vietnam, in Afghanistan, and Iraq.
None of hose actions had a clearly defined mission that was remotely achievable. Ukraine doesn’t either.
What is the US Mission?
- Stop Russia?
- Win back all the territory Ukraine lost?
- Get Ukraine in NATO?
If the mission is for Ukraine to win back all lost territory, then progress is torturously slow and haphazardly thought out.
Supplying more weapons could help. But the expense could be a nuclear response by Putin.
Is the mission to stop Russia’s advance? If so, that is not compatible with Ukraine’s goal of winning back 100% of the territory it lost.
To what extent is the US willing to keep paying for Ukraine’s goal if the US goal is not the same?
Russia’s initial thrust was to put a puppet regime in Kyiv, but that failed. Does anyone know what Russia’s goal is at this point?
Perpetual War
After many months and at great cost Russia finally captured the Ukrainian city of Bakhmut. The city was totally destroyed in the process. Now Ukraine is struggling to win it back.
This reminds me of fighting over meaningless hills just like the US did in Vietnam.
Journalist Peter Arnett’s Vietnam dispatch for the Associated Press: “It became necessary to destroy the town to save it.”
On Feb. 10, an Oregon newspaper rendered it “We had to destroy the village in order to save it.” Two weeks later the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported on a group of protesters carrying a banner that read, “It Was Necessary to Destroy the Village in Order to Save It.” In whatever form, the words had become a mantra of the anti-war movement, a quick and simple summary of what was wrong with the entire Vietnam adventure.
Arnett has always been adamant that he got the quote right, and I have no reason to doubt him. Still, I would be remiss if I failed to note that there are skeptics.
Peace for Territory?
Any time the US or EU brings up the notion of peace for territory, Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelenskyy goes off the rails, frequently accompanied by the battle cry, “We cannot reward Putin”.
At best, there are three conflicting goals, none of which is clearly defined other than Ukraine’s.
Complicating matters, Ukraine’s goal is not remotely achievable without massive US spending and risk of a nuclear confrontation with Putin.
Meanwhile, a stalemate can go on for quite a while, perhaps with a debate over the shape of the negotiating table.
That may sound ridiculous, but a lengthy debate over the shape of the table happened in the Vietnam War Peace Negotiations
Vietnam Peace Talks
One of the largest hurdles to effective negotiation was the fact that North Vietnam and the National Front for the Liberation of South Vietnam (NLF, or Viet Cong) in the South, refused to recognize the government of South Vietnam; with equal persistence, the government in Saigon refused to acknowledge the legitimacy of the NLF. Harriman resolved this dispute by developing a system by which North Vietnam and U.S. would be the named parties; NLF officials could join the North Vietnam team without being recognized by South Vietnam, while Saigon’s representatives joined their U.S. allies.
A similar debate concerned the shape of the table to be used at the conference. The North favored a circular table, in which all parties, including NLF representatives, would appear to be “equal”‘ in importance. The South Vietnamese argued that only a rectangular table was acceptable, for only a rectangle could show two distinct sides to the conflict. Eventually a compromise was reached, in which representatives of the northern and southern governments would sit at a circular table, with members representing all other parties sitting at individual square tables around them.
Can’t Leave Now
This takes me back to 7th grade memories when our teacher, Harry Don Wirth left mid-year for Vietnam. I recall him saying something to the effect “I don’t think we should be there, but we can’t leave now.”
The war was still going on when I graduated high school and two more years on top of that.
The US was in Vietnam for 8 years and Afghanistan for 20 years. What good became of either of them?
Eventually, the US left both countries, humiliated .
In this case, we don’t have troops in Ukraine, but we happily supply missiles. Importantly, it was US meddling in Ukraine in 2014, led by Senator John McCain and the CIA, that led to the mess we are involved in now.
That does not excuse Putin, but history is clear. US meddling in foreign affairs of other nations never leads to anything good.
Prolonged War is Inflationary
Ukraine in not in any position to be demanding anything from us. But without clearly defined goals, we keep cruising down the path of a prolonged if not perpetual war, with escalating costs.
It’s yet another inflationary aspect of US policy.
Also see Yet Another Biden Regulation Will Increase Costs and Promote More Inflation and my follow-up post The Cost of Soup is About to Increase, Thank President Biden
Real numbers!
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Troop Deaths and Injuries in Ukraine War Near 500,000, U.S. Officials Say
Ukraine and Russia have lost a staggering number of troops as Kyiv’s counteroffensive drags on. A lack of rapid medical care has added to the toll.
Aug. 18, 2023
The total number of Ukrainian and Russian troops killed or wounded since the war in Ukraine began 18 months ago is nearing 500,000, U.S. officials said, a staggering toll as Russia assaults its next-door neighbor and tries to seize more territory.
The officials cautioned that casualty figures remained difficult to estimate because Moscow is believed to routinely undercount its war dead and injured, and Kyiv does not disclose official figures. But they said the slaughter intensified this year in eastern Ukraine and has continued at a steady clip as a nearly three-month-old counteroffensive drags on.
Russia’s military casualties, the officials said, are approaching 300,000. The number includes as many as 120,000 deaths and 170,000 to 180,000 injured troops. The Russian numbers dwarf the Ukrainian figures, which the officials put at close to 70,000 killed and 100,000 to 120,000 wounded.
…
link to nytimes.com
Are those numbers real?
Seems more like speculative propaganda.
“Seems”? Based on what? Random crap you read on Telegram or from rt.com?
Pay ATTENTION! It’s from the NY Times. The company has almost 10 million digital and print subscribers. They research what they print as best as possible.
Sorry Oligarchs! Your cars are going to stop running soon, just like on ‘The Day The Earth Stood Still’.
——–
Mercedes-Benz and BMW disconnect Russian dealers from their software
“Economichna Pravda” — Monday, 14 August 2023
German carmaker Mercedes-Benz has completely disconnected Russian dealers from its software. The BMW Group has also restricted access.
Source: Daily Russian broadsheet newspaper Izvestia, with reference to the press service of the distributor of Mercedes-Benz in Russia; Mercedes-Benz Russia
The association of Russian automobile dealers confirmed that there were problems with access to the software, and other brands were also affected, the newspaper writes.
…
link to pravda.com.ua
Russia says Ukrainian drones attack four regions
Reuters
August 20, 2023
MOSCOW, Aug 20 (Reuters) – Russia said Ukrainian drones had attacked four separate regions in a flurry of attempted strikes on Sunday, injuring five people and forcing two of Moscow’s airports to briefly divert flights.
Russia’s Kursk, Rostov and Belgorod regions, all of which border Ukraine, reported attempted drone strikes, while Russia’s defence ministry said it had jammed a Ukrainian drone in the Moscow region, forcing it to crash in an unpopulated area.
…
link to reuters.com
Anyone remotely familiar with Russia and Ukraine would have known that Ukraine stood zero chance of winning against Russia. The real economy of Russia is vastly greater than imagined. The steel production of Russia is similar to that of the USA. What costs one dollar in Russia costs $3 in the West. The flat tax rate is around 12%. Their real economy is booming.
The enormous patience of Russia while Ukraine bombarded ethnic-Russians for 8 years in the Donbas is remarkable. Impossible for someone in the West to begin to comprehend. There are around 18,000 casualties. Every day, Donetsk is bombed to this day – schools, hospitals, bus stops, apartment buildings etc.
Now, the boot is on the other foot. At the moment, NATO is being destroyed. A bit later, the EU will unravel. The nations of Europe will either reclaim their sovereignty or they will die.
The West will be left with the Nazi rump Ukraine and a huge immigration problem. The Nazis will turn against their hosts in due course.
Just end the war. The only ones who want the war to continue are US neocons. Let Putin keep whatever he conquered. It’s all blown up and will cost a fortune to rebuild.
Putin is like 75 years old. He won’t be around to launch any other invasions.
Unfortunately it’s not just Putin. Everyone brainwashed by Russian state TV unfortunately thinks the same. If you give Russia what it has occupied so far, it will want more. Also, China will want Taiwan, and so on and on.
xxx
The US has sent its draft Peace Agreement to the Ukraine Gov’t!!!
All of the Oblasts that voted join Ukraine will become part of Russia.
Northeast Ukraine to the Dniper River will be a “DEMILITARIZED ZONE”!!!
Kiev is split in half!!!
Morning Mish – I liked the article – but I think you are wrong about no one having a clearly defined goal in Ukraine (UKR) – while the US, EU & Russia certainly doesn’t – UKR most certainly has – its called SURVIVAL – and its the most clearly defined goal of all. One should take some time to read a little of UKR history – they are a most remarkably resilient people who have over the centuries suffered terribly at the hands of the Mongols, Tsars & Bolsheviks. To us living in a comfortable western bubble – we cannot even begin to fathom what survival really means and yet we have the absolute audacity to lecture others who do and pontificate in our self – righteous know-it-all manner.
Putin’s Greatest Fear: Russia Could Disappear Thanks To Ukraine War
Alexander Moty
4 Jun 2023
RIP Russia?
Sometimes Russian strongman Vladimir Putin gets things right. What he usually says is either pablum or propaganda, but once in a while a bit of reality is part of the mix.
On February 26, in an interview with the TASS news agency, Putin effectively claimed that Russians don’t exist. After saying that “the West has one goal—to liquidate the Russian Federation,” Putin made the following remarkable statement: “If the West succeeds in breaking up the Russian Federation and establishing control over its splinters, the Russian people might not be preserved.” Instead, there “will be Muscovites, Uralites, and others.”
It’s important to keep in mind a distinction that doesn’t exist in English.
The Russians use the word russkii to denote the ethnic Russian population; they use the word rossiiskii to denote the inhabitants of the Russian Federation [Rossiiskaya Federatsiya].
Significantly, in speaking of the “Russian people” Putin used the modifier russkii—the ethnic designation.
One can easily imagine that the collapse of the Russian Federation—a scenario that is now actively discussed in Russia and abroad, by both supporters and opponents of Putin’s regime—would lead to the break-up of the rossiiskii people.
Many non-Russian regions would secede and opt for independence. Some Russian regions, especially those distant from Moscow, would likely follow suit.
But for Putin to suggest that ethnic Russians might also fall apart is tantamount to denying their common nationhood and unifying identity.
That is, Russians, according to Putin, are not a nation!
…
link to 19fortyfive.com
Stop the stupid pipe dreams and focus on the immediate future – the break-up of Ukraine, resulting in a rump land-locked country about half the current size.
Use this map as a guide and keep referring to it as events unfold – link to moonofalabama.org
Re: “half the current size”.
I meant half the size it was at the start of 2022. It has already lost about 18% so far, with more to come in the following months and the next 2-3 years.
I think its for two reasons: the military industrial complex must be fed and the Neocons absolutely love seeing an ex-soviet bloc country fighting Russia. Both are bad. If we wanted to get even with Putin for blocking our oil and gas pipelines from the middle east to Europe there were better means that would of actually worked. Setting up Ukrainian and Russian young men to be slaughtered, destabilizing Europe, and risking a war of nuclear annihilation is so 20th century. The longer this goes on the more territory Ukraine will lose and the higher the risk of a nuclear WW3
How can you defeat Russia if you don’t defeat Afghanistan? How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat….meh. I served 20 years in the US military in combat arms. I learned two things; it’s all BS and the government is constantly lying about everything.
How anyone believes this nonsense of Ukraine freedom, lockdown 2 more weeks, wearing masks, vaccines work….I do not know but they do. They really believe this stuff with all their heart. I stopped trying to understand them other than understanding they are brainwashed.
All the talk of agreements and he said, she said, and who did or didn’t do what, are for the birds. All wars are economic. The Ukrainian side, and their allies, are self-evidently playing gesture politics and not putting their money (or troops) where their mouth is.
Setting aside the sentimentalising of wiggly lines on maps that change through time, the facts on the ground are that the Ukraine region is of strategic and economic value, but is also significantly degraded in terms of infrastructure and economic viability.
The Ukraine’s allies in NATO have significant and emerging debt-related financial and economic stresses that are a significant and emerging constraint on escalation.
Russia, has significant material and economically valuable resources, and shorter supply lines. The economics of this situation have a major bearing on the outcome.
With constrained appetite for escalation by Ukraine’s allies, and persistent determination by Russia, we have a war of attrition, wherein Russia has the apparent greater advantage and greater incentive. The outcome seems odds on that Russia will weather the storm as it has, and retain control of territory it holds, and may extend that control further, at which point, NATO nations on the borders, such as Poland, may step in and force the issue towards something like a mix of Bosnia and Korea, where Ukraine once again changes size and shape, and the funding for persistent war runs out in favour of rebuilding in the aftermath.
None of what I say is advocating for any side in the matter, just attempting to look at the probable outcomes based on economic and strategic realpolitik.
NATO has failed to achieve its stated objectives of bringing down Russian leadership, and failed to change the territorial facts on the ground.
The question now, is whether Russia can and will advance to the Dneiper and beyond, and whether any allies of Ukraine can and will seize control of territory west of the Dneiper to fortify it against falling under Russian control.
Once a military force (and supply lines) breaks, it’s then a race to a stalemate at best, or defeat and surrender at worst. I am tempted to bet that at some point, there will be a stand off between Russian and NATO-backed Polish + remaining Ukrainian forces at some part of the Ukraine, west of the 4 provinces that are under Russian control.
I suspect it’s likely that the Russian side will be conservative with any advances, to avoid straining supply lines, and will perhaps consider foregoing attempts to control the entire Black Sea coast and stay east of the Dneiper, simply because of the risk of being overstretched. Obviously the outcome of the US election matters, and there’s no knowing what decisions will come by American leadership in January 2025.
Step one is stop sending money and weapons to Ukraine. More money and more weapons means more death. Ironic how Biden had no problem taking money from evil Russia just a few years ago. If he really wants to support Ukraine he should send Biden family money instead of our money.
Refreshing to see an article about a real war instead of a fictious war.
“What’s the US goal in Ukraine?”
Obviously, the goal is to surround Russia, effect regime change, and bring the country under the domination of the global predator class. You know, ‘the superclass’ who seek to transform the US (and the west, in general, from first world to third world status.
Let’s look at the countries that surround Russia from West anticlockwise to East…
WEST:
HARD – Norway, Finland; Estonia; Lithuania; Poland (Sweden & Denmark maritime)
SOFT – Belorussia [friendly]; what’s left of The Ukraine; (Moldavia, de facto, via Transdnistria)
SOUTH:
SOFT – (Turkey maritime); Georgia; Azerbaijan; Iran; Turkmenistan (maritime); Kazakhstan; China; Mongolia; North Korea;
HARD – Japan; South Korea (maritime); USA (Alaska); Canada (maritime);
The “encirclement” is really only on parts of the Western and Eastern borders; not along the huge Southern border. It was just never realistic, especially with countries like India undermining it all, and countries in Africa really not interested in the West’s agenda.
The concerns over a nuclear retaliation are WAY overblown. Russia threatens the use of nukes all the time because it is effective in deterring the West from helping more. But Russia won’t use nukes. Nukes just won’t help Russia achieve ANY goals. Tactical nukes won’t change anything on the battlefield and strategic nukes won’t help the battlefield. Worse, the use of nukes beings HUGE risks of greater escalation to Russia and even the abandonment of allies like China.
But the even bigger point is that the use of nukes is almost certain if Russia is allowed to achieve even an inch of territorial gains. A Russian victory (even a small one with the gain of Crimea alone) would result in a proliferation explosion. A Russian victory will make it clear to all nations that they must have their own domestic nuke weapons because no one will save them if a nuke armed country starts bullying them.
Worse, a Russian victory leaves a terrible message to aggressive nations that will realize they can do whatever they want so long as they have the threat of nukes behind them goodbye Taiwan. If we care about Taiwan independence then we MUST make sure Russia suffers a complete and humiliating defeat in Ukraine.
“a Russian victory leaves a terrible message to aggressive nations that will realize they can do whatever they want so long as they have the threat of nukes behind them ”
Like America, for instance…
You understand what is at stake here.
What concerns me is the number of people screaming that “We” must annihilate Russia. I agree w/Dr. Jordan Peterson when he asks “what does a Russian defeat look like”? I wonder what % of war hawks are VFWs and what % of VFWs are war hawks. I know of countless Chairborne Rangers who have called many times for us to “Turn to glass!” I think maybe we all need to be a little more sensitive to the threat of escalatioin. In the 60s and 70s people used to fear nuclear war … now that threat is a far thought from most. Maybe Tom had it right back then: link to youtube.com
link to youtu.be
What appears clearly now (see the press of non occidental countries like India, Hindustan Times on youtube) is the deplorable quality of Western armaments, which are even below the old Soviet armaments
You say this looks a lot like Vietnam. There are more recent examples that are more apt.
The fight against ISIS in Mosul is a good example. We literally destroyed half the city with proxy troops (mostly Kurds) and U.S. air power. Hardly reported, no political repercussions at home. Lesson: don’t lose U.S. troops and completely leveling major urban areas with many civilian deaths can be done no questions asked.
The fight to overthrow Assad. Ditto. U.S. supplies arms, proxies and air power. Entire cities in Syria levelled. Assad is still in power. No political repercussions at home.
The fight over Bakhmut. Ditto.
What is our objective in Syria now? Who knows? But we’re still there.
You ask what is Russia’s objective? Putin stated this clearly. Keep Ukraine neutral (vis-a-vis NATO). Consolidate annexed territories, now part of Mother Russia. And de-Nazify Ukraine. Keeping this war going, and inflicting massive casualties, is slowly accomplishing that last objective.
The U.S. is not accomplishing any valid national security objective in Ukraine. It is just pissing off the world (e.g. the BRICS) and wasting money/blood.
Ukrainians are willing to fight for their national survival and integrity – which Russia wants to exterminate, ie Ukrainians are just Russians with funny accents. Like the Viet Nam village, Russia is willing to destroy Ukraine to “save it”, their attitude is – if they can’t have it nobody (including the Ukrainians) can!
Unlike VietNam, Iraq and Afgan the Ukrainians will fight and have fought admirably when adequately supplied. More robust material support from US & Europe would quickly tip the scales and quiet the attrition, endless war chatter.
Russia which already had a declining population is being bled white by putin’s war with plenty of draft age Russians fleeing the carnage.
And there’s more to life than inflation!
Which Ukrainians?
Remember all Ukrainians speak Russian, but less than half speak passable Ukrainian.
I have already read a dozen articles about UA refugees getting into physical altercations with bodily harm, attacking each other because the one side thought the others were Russians.
Of course, Mish fails to mention that the only people talking about ending the war in Ukraine is Trump and Bobby Kennedy. Trump and Bobby would be clapping bravo at this article.
Recently I completely fried a sh**lib’s brain when I said that if I lived in a decidedly blue state or red state, I will vote for the anti-war candidate Cornel West. But if it is a swing state, I, a left-winger, will vote for Trump because he has stated that he would end the Ukraine war.
Trump and Bobby are nutcases.
Given who is in charge of most western nations, “nutcases” seems somewhat of a qualification and requirement for the highest echelons of power.
Which should tell you something about how much weight to put on this article. [lol]
We have read about oil wars or future water wars.
But this is a strange war: Putin started this war to get children. Russian population is shrinking and the dictator wants more subjects.
It was in his calculation to acquire more population as well as resources.
If that was the case, he would import them from Asia and Africa, clearly it isn’t; it’s about ethnic identity; and of course that the Wokefascist West disdains anyone who stands up against Wokeism and makes and enforces laws to that effect.
Maybe you should pay more attention to what people themselves say
Keeps the MIC busy, good for Huntsville and her economy.
A lot of people talk about WW3. Historically speaking, it’s a matter of time. No one knows when but human history always includes major wars.
WW3 is necessary to rebalance the world, trade, currencies, etc. We see the clown show that has built up the last 80 years, wars have a reason.
Einstein said, “I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”
Einstein was an optimist to think that humans would be around to fight WW IV.
Mish, this is the simplest, most elegant post you’ve ever made.
America’s goal was and is to bleed Russia. Nothing more. If Ukraine bleeds more, well, “its necessary to destroy a town to save it” is America’s foreign policy for several generations now.
Russia’s goal was to overwhelm Ukraine & get them to agree to set demands quickly: recognize the loss of Crimea & Donbass and guarantee neutrality by treaty. It failed in March 2022. But they are staying the course while upping the ante to Zaporozhe & Kherson.
Simple!
From a recent WaPo article:
“Meanwhile, for the United States and its NATO allies, these 18 months of war have been a strategic windfall, at relatively low cost (other than for the Ukrainians). The West’s most reckless antagonist has been rocked. NATO has grown much stronger with the additions of Sweden and Finland. Germany has weaned itself from dependence on Russian energy and, in many ways, rediscovered its sense of values. NATO squabbles make headlines, but overall, this has been a triumphal summer for the alliance.”
COMMENT: “Other than for the Ukrainians” he says, as a parenthetical aside. Everyone who supported this horrifying proxy war should have that paragraph tattooed on their ****ing forehead.
When this whole thing got started I said how can we spend billions, now hundreds of billions protecting the borders of the Ukraine while allowing our own borders to remain open? Unbelievable! Also I wonder if the Biden administration’s total disaster with the Afghanistan withdrawal caused them to jump into this war trying to prove they’re not really incompetent wimps when it comes to defense even as things keep getting worse. Had we left this to Europe, we would have had a negotiated settlement long ago imo. No I am not a Putin supporter.
What’s to “negotiate”, then or now? Russia invaded a smaller country. Russia needs to withdraw and pay for infrastructure rebuilding and personal reparations to all those who lost close relations.
Nothing to negotiate, Ukraine and NATO surrenders and agrees to uphold Minsk accords, pay reparations for shelling Donbas for 9 years, turn over their war criminals, restore the government overthrown in 2014, and pay compensation to everyone who lost love ones including of the hundreds of thousands of conscripts that they threw into the meat grinder.
And as US government officials are complicit in the mess the US taxpayer is on the hook.
Making lemonade out of lemons?
——-
Ukraine captured so many weapons that Russia is ‘competing with Western countries’ to supply it with arms, Ukrainian colonel says
August 11, 2023
Ukraine is turning hundreds of pieces of military equipment captured from Russia back on the invading forces, according to a new report.
Ukraine has scooped up more than 800 Russian artillery systems, armored vehicles, and other weaponry since the start of the war, including 300 tanks, according to Deutsche Welle.
Those have then been repaired where necessary, examined for crucial military-tech information, and often put back on the battlefield — to be pointed directly back at their former owners, the outlet said.
…
link to businessinsider.com
Ukraine war bleeding Russia dry! The West is killing Russia with a thousand cuts.
———-
Putin warned unrest brewing over ‘skyrocketing’ military spending to fund vain Ukraine win
August 5, 2023
Vladimir Putin has been warned he could face the wrath of the public if he continues to pursue unpopular war policies while military spending skyrockets.
According to recently emerged government documents, Russia has now doubled its 2023 military budget to more than £78 million ($100 billion).
The increase comes as Putin last month once again expanded the pool of adult males eligible to be drafted, increasing the age of conscription by three years.
But as details of Russia’s complete expenditure are no longer published, one economist suggested Putin is spending even more in a desperate effort to secure victory over Ukraine.
…
link to express.co.uk
LOL. This is what a *US* liberal rag says:
“Russia got richer even as the war in Ukraine raged on last year, while the West shed trillions of dollars of wealth”
link to businessinsider.com
And this is what the British rag that you quote, Daily Express, said in 2002 :
“Prevarication merely gives Saddam more time to add to his horrific arsenal. It is to be hoped when the time comes to act, Britain and the US will not stand alone.”
From what I gather, Russian consumers have more at better prices in their supermarket than do Brits, Germans, or American.
I bet you are wrong. Let’s see your proof, since you made the claim.
A truce could be called tomorrow. Here is all that has to happen to achieve that. Just a simple 4 points. Easy peasy.
Ending the Ukraine War
1. Russia withdraws all its troops to the pre-2014 borders. Ukraine agrees not to violate Russia borders.
2. Russia signs a future non-invasion of Ukraine agreement
3. Russia agrees to turn over all its war criminals to the world court.
4. Russia agrees that it will pay for all damages incurred by Ukraine and all rebuilding resulting from the Russian invasion and continual bombings. This can be done by releasing its claims on assets presently stored in foreign countries (to be turned over to Ukraine) and via future oil/gas sales revenues.
On Russia’s agreement and the withdrawal of all troops and equipment from Ukraine, Western sanctions will begin to be lifted in stages based on performance of the remainder of the agreement.
You forgot to add point #5.
5. Russia will bring the moon down and hand it to Zelensky.
ROTFL
Nope, the ruskis can’t do that now as they have damaged the moon by crashing their latest technological marvel into it. Damaged goods…deal off.
I doubt they can do that. Their rocket couldn’t even get there in one piece let alone bring it back.
Ah. Then the Americans, who need them Russkie rockets to hitch a ride to the space station.
Yeah. You can blame GW Bush for canceling the Shuttle space program.
Bush and his admin were stone cold losers all the way through. As was Obama also.
Or Russia could drop a couple of tactical nukes into the Ukrainian armed forces.
The war would end instantly as the Ukrainian military would desert en masse before more tactical nukes could be used.
If you believe the west would counter with nukes of their own, you’re dreaming. No western leader would allow his cities to be consumed in nuclear fire for Ukraine.
Yes, the west would shun Russia for a while and much of the world would condemn the action. But they’d get over it the minute they needed Russian oil and gas and justify it with the idea that at least it brought peace.
I doubt if you know what the reaction of the Ukrainians and the Nato countries would be. Needless to say Putin has been informed by Nato in very clear terms exactly what the reaction would be.
What did they inform him? It is OK if a few million Ukrainians are killed over a period of 2-3 years but not all on the same day??!! They sure are acting like that.
Nato said that they explained to Putin in detail what would happen if Putin uses a nuclear device. They said it publicly. They did not say what they told Putin. The content of the message to Putin is secret. I do not know what was said but we know that it was said but I will not hazard to guess what was said.
They (nato) would be committing suicide.
There is no reason to explain anything, since Russian nuclear doctrine is clear, and Putin has done no more than to cite it.
My worst fear is that some bimboes are going to test their theories about “tactical” nukes, escalate to de-escalate, preemptive first strikes, and all the rest.
Note that the US is the only nation that has no first use doctrine, the only party to block all efforts to negotiate a nuclear arms free world, the only nation to have used them, and the only nation that has regularly threatened other parties with nuclear arms.
Any sane soldier would desert in the fact of tactical nukes being used on them repeatedly. There is no defense against it so why would they remain and die uselessly.
NATO countries would not retaliate with nukes of their own. Not in a million years. Not a single politician could credibly get on TV and tell their people that millions of them had to die to Russian nukes to avenge a few thousand Ukrainian soldiers killed by nukes vs conventional weapons.
That was what Putin was counting on that enough people in the West are so afraid of Russia that they would not fight.
Yup.
As that great visionary said: “…and there are unknown unknowns.”
Here are two articles that explain why Putin won’t go nuclear and why it is so ineffective a tactic (pay attention NK!).
Due to the aggressive spam filter here, I have been forced to modify the URL by inserting the character string “JOJO”. Remove that and the URL will work (and hopefully this will get past the screen).
Why Putin Won’t Go Nuclear
by Ian Rons
4 June 2023 1:49 PM
link to dailyJOJOsceptic.org
AND
Is the Risk of Nuclear War really One in Six? It is Hard to Envisage a Scenario in Which Putin Would Gain From Using Nuclear Weapons
by Ian Rons
13 October 2022 6:00 PM
link to dailyJOJOsceptic.org
So you support Ukrainian bombardment and ethnic cleansing of the 7 million or so ethnic Russians in the Donbas? That would be like rewarding Serbia for its actions in Bosnia, surely? Are Ukrainian war criminals immune from prosecution in your world?
Ukraine never existed before 1991, and its borders have varied (usually undemocratically) since it was invented in 1920. Why not revert Ukraine back to it’s orginal 1920 borders without stealing parts of Poland and Romania/Moldavia and Russia?
Does this world court include the CCP, DPRK, Iran, Venezuela, the Burmese junta, the Taliban, the leaders of any number of African countries whose views you might be uncomfortable about? Or is it not really a “world court” but a G20 court, of former colonial powers who know what’s best for everyone else in the world?
dead on. reality
Ukraine was dealing with a rebellion in its own country, NOT in some other country. They have a lot more latitude to do that when it is their own country.
This was none of Putin’s business.
One of the (many) sticking points in international law.
Genocide is okay inside your own country !
Do you know how many ethnic Russians are being repressed in, for example, in New York or Chicago? I.e. these cities are not running schools in Russian language, you cannot use Russian at the stores or local government offices? Should Russia send in its troops?
Do you realize that by abrogating the Treaty on Friendship & Cooperation, there is no legal basis for Moscow to recognize the Ukrainian state or its borders?
Since Russia know that Western treaties and assurances are worth nothing (How about UN Security Resolution #2202 (=International law) which was subverted by UA, France, Germany, and the USA), here are four things that might get Russia to the negotiating table:
1. Change Nato constitution — no more new members
2. Withdraw Aegis missiles from Russia’s borders
3. Withdraw American nuclear arms from Europe
4. Withdraw Nato countries forces from countries east of Germany, along with all Nato military infrastructure
5. Lift illegal siege (sanctions are illegal if not approved by UN Security Council under the UN Charter, which is the basis of international law, such as it is).
The ukranian war is the best dream for the pentagon. One hundred russian aircrafts have been destroyed, some of them strategic bombers.
Instead of US soldiers dying in Vietnam, Afganistan ot Irak, tens of thousands of russian soldiers have been killed.
This is Vietman for Russia, the best money employed in its history for the Depatment of Defense.
By the number of comments it shows how opinionated so many people are on the other side of the world.
BTW, all sides of this war use manipulation as their primary weapon.
One way you can tell is when most main forms of news get their information from 1 source and they they present biased information as news.
The goal is to punish the aggressor (Russia) so that Russia thinks twice before invading another country again especially one in Europe. That should be pretty clear to anyone. If you want a detailed list of goals you won’t get one because once you do then your options become limited. A WW II-type total surrender is obviously not even considered nor a partial surrender. The goal is to get Russia out of all of Ukraine and it is doable.
LOL. From the NYT recently:
“American officials say they fear that Ukraine has become casualty adverse, one reason it has been cautious about pressing ahead with the counteroffensive. Almost any big push against dug-in Russian defenders protected by minefields would result in huge numbers of losses.
In just a year and a half, Ukraine’s military deaths have already surpassed the number of American troops who died during the nearly two decades U.S. units were in Vietnam (roughly 58,000) and about equal the number of Afghan security forces killed over the entire war in Afghanistan, from 2001 to 2021 (around 69,000).”
Let’s talk next year.
Yes. Let’s talk by election time 2024.
And review the situation and see who was more right.
Let the Russians sit in the trench all winter, and shoot them if they try to leave. No sense in getting killed .
It’s doable? Really? At what cost in blood and $ and whose blood and $ are you willing to expend?
For the moment Putin is expending mostly Russian blood.
… which is 30 proof.
Don’t forget the Biden Admin has fully achieved all of their personal goals in Ukraine:
“10% For The big Guy”
or
As GWB would say:
“Mission Accomplished!”
———————————————-
On the number of casualties on both sides, neither side announces daily numbers.
Russia announces daily estimates of what they observe Ukraine casualties are, based on drone videos, satellite date, and intercepted Ukraine communications. So Russian MoD estimates are probably on the low side, as they don’t count non-observed hits, strikes in rear areas (10s to 100s everyday) that are hard to verify, etc – and Western MSM are closely watching them, so they tend to under-report rather than be accused of propaganda – which if you notice outlets like the BBC etc do not dispute Russian estimates of Ukrainian casualties, they just never mention them at all. Ukraine does not announce any casualty numbers for their troops, for obvious reasons – there is no way to minimize them and be believed. Ukraine SIM card data shows about 1.2 million SIM cards have gone dark (no activity, but still has an account, theoretically) in eastern Ukraine. Satellite photos show massive grave construction, Ukraine media reports old graves from WWII have to be re-opened to be used again, photes of funerals and flag draped coffins are widespread, even Western MSM now admit Ukraine “massive” casualties. Stratfor estimated Ukraine KIA at 305K many months ago, I am sure it is well over 400K now, and going up about 500-1,000 every day. Because Ukraine medevac is stretched, more Ukraine wounded die that they should, leading to the imbalance of greater KIA vs WIA over historical averages, which should be 1:3 , 1 KIA to 3 wounded.
If Russian casulaties were as large as fake Western MSM says, there would be the same evidence in Russia of funerals everywhere etc. BBC/Mediazona try very hard to find all Russian KIA stats, as they would love to report hundreds of thousands of Russian dead, and they have very extensive data collection from many sources, you can read about it on their websites if you wish. They come up with 40K roughly KIA now, total for the entire war. The Russian MoD announces casualty figures once in a while, and each release matches up at close to what BBC/Mediazona claim, so those numbers can be taken as fairly reliable. For BBC/Mediazone to miss a Russian killed, it would have to be an orphan soldier with no family or friends who died totally unremarked on any social media, with no obituary posted and no funeral scheduled. Possible for a small number, maybe some whose body was totally destroyed in a massive explosion for example, but not probable for large numbers of “missed” casualties that were somewhow not counted. BBC/Mediazone says they are under-estimating their Russian KIA numbers, but have never explained how that is, they just state it, I think to placate angry Ukraine supporters who question them.
Numbers also based on sale of prosthetic devices; excess counts of obituaries; population surveys; and other methodologies.
Most serious estimates based on empirical data and a stated methodology come out at a base number 200-400K KiA (Jul 2023).
Wounded is difficult, b/c times and conditions change, and many rules of thumb from previous conflicts were not based on unconfirmed geusstimates then.
As I have already state, many analysts think the number of Russian dead according to Ukraine’s statements give us a running total of their own, and this accords with many of the methods cited.
The US goal is to try to weaken Russia, using Ukrainians as cannon fodder.
Of these two, only the latter is happening but not the former.
Russia’s goal is to prevent Ukraine from ever joining NATO. And NATO has essentially made that happen, by asking Ukraine to do the impossible task of defeating Russia.
Eventually, over the rest of the decade, Ukraine will fragment and break, roughly along these lines – link to moonofalabama.org (pink and purple regions being taken over by Russia, and the olive green region getting divvied up between Poland, Hungary and Romania).
None of us know what is going on in secret, behind closed doors. We know the official narrative(s).
Where I struggle is that even bright people do not see that events like the Vietnam War and the actions the west is taking in Ukraine. . . are tactical, not strategic unto themselves. If you take a step back and look at the outcomes you can only see that it’s been working.
Is the west close to an overstep? Perhaps, but unlike the Roman empire the world is known and trade routes and communication are fast. It is a different game board.
China could and in my opinion should make a play in the Pacific right now. They don’t have time on their side either.
“None of us know what is going on in secret, behind closed doors.”
But what we do now, that whatever it is; like all things “going on in secret, behind closed doors,” it is solely the work of genuinely retarded children. Hence not any more interesting than any other “secret” giggling among teenage girls.
The longer the conflict goes on, the better it’s looking for China.
Russia and the US expending massive amounts of military hardware and money in a stalemate means both countries are exhausting themselves. If it goes on another year or two both countries may be hollowed out shells by the time it ends much like Western European countries were at the end of WWII after fighting Germany in 2 world wars (effectively ended European dominance militarily and industrially).
The saddest thing I read lately is that FEMA aid for the Hawaiian fires is only 5.6 million for 2000 households. That’s barely $2000 per house. We send more than 5 million a day to Ukraine. We should be taking care of our own before giving out foreign aid in a hopelessly deadlocked war.
It is not foreign aid. Most of the money will be spent in DC itself, to the benefit of weapons makers. Ukraine will get some obsolete weapons and duds in return. The only Ukrainians who will make money are people in (or connected to) the Ukrainian administration.
We’re giving them a lot of cash so they can pay people.
It’s a proxy war between the US Democrats and the CCP, with Russia just another proxy.
The CCP is already engaging in TikTok psyop warfare on the US population on a grand scale… where do you think Wokeism comes from? Grown in a psychology lab in Wuhan… remember that “brainwashing” is a direct translation of Chinese “xi nao”.
Meanwhile, China’s economy is imploding on a grand scale, wait for those headlines.
“To be an enemy of the United States can be dangerous. To be its friend is fatal.”
— Henry Kissinger
I believe that Kissinger also stated….”The US has no allies…only interests”
Sounds like something he might have said.
Hell will burn extra bright when this ghoul finall kicks it.
We can agree on that!
It’s something that Ukraine will discover for itself as it becomes the next Afghanistan.
Waiting in the wings is Taiwan, which will become the next Ukraine.
The goals have been stated by all parties crystal clear:
Don’t understand the misapprehension.
RUSSIA
Putin’s intermediate goal in the SMO is to Demilitarize and Denazify Ukraine.
This closely mirrors the goals (4 D’s) of the Allies for Germany in WW2 (Yalta):
Demilitarize; Denazify; Decentralize; Deindustrialize (Morgental plan)
Longer Term, Russia has stated its terms in an ignored Dec 2021 draft security treaty:
1. No further expansion of NATO
2. Withdrawal of foreign NATO troops west of the Oder river (as promised by Secr Baker 1991)
3. Withdrawal of US/NATO military infrastructure from Eastern Europe, especially US missile launchers on NATO borders (Poland and Romania).
UKRAINE
Goal is to destroy Russia; wipe out the half-breed Asian/Slav vatniks; and make a final stand of the white race against Semite and Globalist domination.
USA
Goal is to weaken Russia, as stated by Secretary of Defense Austin and detailed in a Rand Think Tank paper in 2019 about opportunities to destabilize Russia.
–Long-term goal, detailed in many foreign policy blob papers and by think tanks, is to maintain US global hegemony, specifically, more closely bind and subordinate NATO countries, and with regard to Russia
–to have the Russian Federation devolve into smaller jurisdictions more susceptible to control and open to Western business exploitation
–by encouraging civil unrest, regime change, and especially resurgent ethnic nationalism.
You pretty much nailed it.
[typo] East, not West of the Oder
The ” ignored Dec 2021 draft security treaty” is a must read. Basically it was calling for reestablishment of the Soviet Empire and the rendition of Nato and when it came out people scratched their heads wondering whether Putin was living in the same world as everyone else. Apparently he believed every word, invaded Ukraine and immediately got bogged down because his view of the world was just a dream palace.
Ukraine is luring the Russians in to exterminate them?
There’s an easy way to not get exterminated… carry your drunk a$$es back home, comrade.
“A puppet regime in Kyiv” was a Russian strategy, not a goal. That strategy would have been the most bloodless, but it failed. But do not confuse “strategy” with “goals”. The goal is a neutral Ukraine that cannot be used to threaten Russia. The alternate, less preferable strategy of leveling the place and depopulating it seems to be working just fine, even though it is quite a bit messier than the original strategy would have been.
It will be a generation before Ukraine can even field an army at this point. The country is now a desolation. The fighting men are all dead, and much of the population has fled, never to return. And when the war ends, Russia will still have the oil, so Europe will settle on Russia’s terms. There is no alternative. If Europe won’t buy the Russian oil, China and India will.
We should have wholeheartedly endorsed and implemented “Minsk”. The new terms aren’t going to be as favorable.
“Minsk” is UN Security Resolution 2202 and has the force of international law.
In short, observing international law would have sufficed.
Yes, everyone should observe international law.
Russia could start by turning over war criminals already identified in the current engagement.
How about start with the US war criminals that revolve through the White House every 4 years.
How about we don’t get distracted and just focus on the immediate problem, which is Putin?
There’s no such thing as “international law”, unless you mean “the law of the jungle”.
If Russia’s strategy was going to work it would have worked by now. There was a narrow window where that might have worked but Putin is about 15 years too late and even then that window might not have existed. The strategy depended too much on conditions that did not exist such as popular enthusiasm for Russia, a Ukraine army that was at least as corrupt a Russia’s and an impotent Western Europe . None of these conditions were true although I am sure Putin believe in his heart of hearts that they were. Ukraine has strategic depth and access to the best arms. For the moment the manpower situation is holding up but if necessary other countries will contribute troops. Nobody in Eastern Europe want Russia calling the shots there. Nobody!
Wow, you seem to be completely in the dark.
“The fighting men are all dead” and YET…everywhere along the Front Lines, Russian Troops are getting killed and losing ground. Crimea is getting struck on a regular basis by Drones and Missiles and getting more and more cut off as bridges are blown up.
Ports, ships and Airports and military planes inside Russia itself are blowing up and being attacked. Ammo Depots behind Russian Lines and Command and Control bunkers are being blown up by longer range Missiles, Drones and Artillery.
If Russia were inching closer to Kyiv (or Kherson or Kharkiv) or making ANY significant gains ANYWHERE along the front lines…you might have a point…instead they keep losing ground and equipment and men at a scale that makes their Debacle in Afghanistan look like a holiday trip.
No, Russia has stuck their foot in a proverbial Bear Trap…and will end up losing it. The problem really becomes what happens to them AFTER they are forced to withdraw after years of losses…Afghanistan was painful…this may be fatal.
Ukraine was never a threat to Russia until now.
The Ukraine has oil and gas reserves that were about to be developed prior to the Russian invasion. Russia has said they may be reaching a peak in production this year. Where could you go for replacement of reserves? The Ukraine is agriculturally rich. There is also the Putin dream of recreating the old USSR Empire. All these things make sense against a backdrop of a leader who would poison adversaries from afar.
The clear objective is to keep Ukraine in existence. So far, so good.
Goal-free WAR MACHINE in motion, Folks. Now, move along and quit asking PLEB questions. It is not OUR PLACE to question authority, right?
A new Afghanistan. Ukraine should have been set on equal footing to Russia when the USSR broke apart. I would guess that the current goal is to stalemate Russia for a couple more years. If Ukraine gets its territory back, negotiate an end to the military support with Putin’s successor.
The lies are always the same. As a US army draftee in 69 after being a wild anti war radical at U of Wisconsin four years… with a brother who died of his wounds after getting a bronze star….. And as a GS12 level 10 for five years at VA Hospital at end of my career under Obama’s first term… From Tonkin Resolution on, it’s propaganda of lie after lie from the Military Industrial Complex.
Nothing is more outrageous and disgraceful as US and British chicken hawks who champion a war against Russia to replace Putin, fought to the last Ukrainian, who couldn’t escape their draft. With not a drop of US blood spilled. Send Hunter to the front line.
The Vietnam analogy only works if Russia is France though, right? Former colonial power that the locals all hate?
If that’s the case we’re the USSR to Ukraine’s north Vietnam…
Vietnam is the Wrong War.
Afghanistan is the correct one.
Russia is the USSR
Ukraine is Afghanistan
The US / NATO is the US supplying Arms to Afghanistan (Ukraine).
This end soooooo poorly for Russia…just like it did for the USSR.
Bidens cover up of his son’s dirty scum work with burisma
Never forget the Obama Biden crime family makes the Gambinos look like cub scouts
Hunter’s in a spot that daddy can’t help him out of. He’s going to jail on the gun charge.
You think Joe won’t give a presidential pardon to his son? And another to himself and then resign. And the pardons will cover the gun, drugs, racketeering, tax, treason, child pornography and any crime known or unknown that they and anyone in the schemes might have done.
I’ll bet you a hundred bucks it don’t happen.
Mish, I think that the issue of goals is a little clearer than you portray in your article. Putin was clear, before the special military operation which started in February of 2022, on what Russia wanted. It wanted protection of the Russians in the Russian speaking portion of Ukraine, the Donbass region. It wanted the elimination of the neo-Nazis or Azov Battalion from the Ukranian army.( It didn’t want them hassling the Russians in Ukraine) It wanted Ukraine to be a neutral or non aligned country; that is, not part of NATO with the likelihood of nuclear missiles on its border with Ukraine.
The United States’ goal is also clear. It wants to use Ukraine to militarily, economically and diplomatically weaken Russia to that it is not a threat to American hegemony.
The American and Russian goals should be to end the conflict as soon as possible, to end the killing and destruction, and to get to the negotiation table to try to address everyone’s concerns.
That makes too much sense. Plus, how does anyone make anywhere near as much money off of peace?
Nonsense. Putin tried to steal Ukraine’s land and resources by attacking Kyiv and putting in a puppet government. See Belarus for what he wants. Unfortunately, he failed miserably. Now he’s stuck in another Afghanistan, like the USSR was in the 80’s…except it’s much worse…and more costly for Russia. The end will be the same..except at a much higher cost. And thus probably a much worse outcome for Russian Federation.
Protecting NATO and all of Europe from another mad man.
This happens to be a “good war,” where Ukrainians are fighting for their freedom. Iraq, Afghanistan, and Vietnam were lousy wars.
The same sheep who trusted Bush when he invaded Iraq. As result of that 10’s of thousands of Christians were slaughtered in the aftermath. Bush is a war criminal.
Riiiight. There was a time when Afghanistan was said to be a “good war”.
The corporate media always says that about the most recent war.
The USSR Went into Afghanistan…It came out and broke up almost immediately. If Russia continue to pursue this War, the same will occur with the Russian Federation…for many of the same reasons.
Watch the videos and see how “good” the war looks.
All of you pro war, should send your own money and volunteer to help it is this great “democracy”. The picture of Ukraine as some democracy rather than a corrupt place to launder money and run biolabs is a farce.
There was a YouTube documentary titles this is what winning looks like. The reporter was embedded in a battalion and the commander allowed him to shadow the unit for a month or two. Every American should have been forced to watch that. It demonstrated how futile that wsr was.
It also demonstrated how evil and corrupt the existing Afghan regime was the one that we installed I’m surprised that Italian Commander wasn’t reprimanded for exposing that
Battalion not Italian
Knock off the stupidity. We’ve worked with plenty of Ukrainian companies, people and tech. Smart people, that did a LOT of the Tech work and manufacturing for the USSR / Russia before the War. The Russians are going to have to pull back at some point. They don’t have the long term staying power from a population perspective. Already a Demographic Time Bomb on the Russian side. As they lose more and more men of Military Age, they lose more and more future population. They simply won’t be able to keep doing incursions into their neighbors, especially losing Tens of Thousands of younger soldiers as they are.
So, what’s not good about fighting for your freedom? I am talking to Putin’s poodles in the United States …
The clear goals are depletion of Russian munitions, extermination of the male population of Russia, the end of all Russian commerce, and fragmentation of the Russian Federation. Russian military doctrine is to cover the enemy with Russian corpses. Russian doctrine plus a protracted war is achieving our goals. Ukraine is collateral damage.
Sounds good in theory, but my readings are showing that Russia has stepped up industrial production to a full war footing. NATO countries are not doing the same, and certainly Ukraine cannot do it by itself. I think this war is going to change the tactics of ground warfare going forward. Drones are having a devastating effect against armored vehicles. Russia is hoping to have 25,000 (!) trained drone operators by 2025 and that will be increased to 180,000 (!) by 2030. I assume that Russian factories are running 24/7 churning out drones.
F-16s are another issue. Planes have been promised for this autumn. That has now been pushed back. Training of Ukrainian pilots is an issue. I’ve read that only 8 are proficient in English. Experienced pilots are needed on the frontlines and cannot be spared for training. In addition, ground crews need to be trained which can take even longer than pilot training. When Poland transitioned from Soviet fighters to the F-16, from time of their commitment to fielding a qualified F-16 air wing, took 11 years. Certainly Ukraine can improve upon that, but do they have enough time even with crammed courses for pilots and technicians. The F-16s also use ‘hydrazine’ to power their Emergency Power Units (EPU). Hydrazine is incredbly toxic and special handling procedures and protective gear need used. In addition, it was mentioned that contractors are usually assigned to facilitate and oversee operations of the aircraft that would be new to the acquiring country. Most likely, these would be Americans if permitted into Ukraine and the bases housing F-16 would definitely be in the crosshairs of Russian weapons. It is a tough conundrum for the west to fight this proxy war against Russia.
Personally, I don’t see a good way out of this. I recall a comment in the classified Pentagon Papers about Vietnam. An underling in the State Department advised that there was a short period of the time early in the war for the US to extricate itself from Vietnam and save face, otherwise they would be bogged down in a quagmire for years. Those comments were quite prescient. It’s easy to get into a war…very hard to get out of one.
All this fuss.over boots on the ground. Its starting to read like starship troopers.
Whether Russia likes it or not they are on Ukrainian territory. If things get bad for ukraine, the tactical nukes are ready to go. The only way for Russia to show it could win a conventional war was in a few days.
If Russia steps foot into a NATO country there is a good chance the world ends. So all the hustle and bustle is to win a war againsts 3-10 generations old equipment that came out of the dustbin. They get nothing from here, but we still all have the chance to die with Putin.
Do you think Hitler would have pushed the button at the end? He would 100% do it. This is why dictatorships with nuclear weapons need to leave this planet. My fear is that some psychopath will individually take us all with him.
I think that the reverse is true. We are depleting the Ukrainian population. Now 500,000 casualties (source NY Times). We are depleting our resources – now down to sending the “war crimes” cluster munitions. We’ve also sanctioned ourselves and increased inflation while raising rates to control what we created. We’ve crippled Europe (Destroyed Nordstream) and shown that we certainly don’t care about “democracy” as Ukraine cancels elections, imprisons opposing parties, restricts religious practices and runs a completely corrupt government.
On the positive side, we have kept our bio-labs in Ukraine out of the news and protected the Uni-parties money laundering scheme while enriching the MIC and fleecing the US taxpayer.
500,000 when you combine losses on both sides. Or did you not read the article?
The numbers are not sourced, not based on empirical observations or any methodology. The easiest shortcut is that Ukraine’s statement of Russian KiA closely mirrors their own.
Russian casualties are harder to determine, but most serious estimates are 30-40K.
Ukraine bases their kills on the morning report. That is as accurate as you can get from front line grunts. The morning reports say ~250,000 dead Orcs so far. Multiply by three to get total casualties. If you care to corroborate then try hiring a young fit truck driver in Russia. They’re all dead, Jim.
And the breakdown is 70% Russian dead (AKA “cannon fodder”) and 30% Ukraine.
However, Russia doe shave many more bodies to throw at the front lines, so Ukraine needs to get serious. Blow the bridges, cut the supply lines and escalate bombing inside Russia.
Where do you get that ratio?
Most casualties are from artillery.
The Russians are firing 10× the number of shells.
The Russians are defending, only attacking on the counter (when Ukrainians retreat).
The Russians are better equipped to evacuate and treat the wounded.
This should indicate a first order guess for the casualty ratio.
Article,
Schmarticle… it supports his views, therefore it’s true.
Show us SOME proof that these goals are “clear.”
THE PROPAGANDA is at BEST: MUDDLED. UNCLEAR, and driven by Political Ambitions PLUS BidenCO gets a nice CUT of the pie money being funneled into this misguided mess.
The “propaganda” is “get Russia out of the country they invaded”
Clear as a bell.
The extermination of the population of Russia? That is being happening for a long time due to alcohol and drugs. But the war has accelerated it. The real enemy is not Europe but China. In a decade or so. They can start moving their people to the territories taken by the czars.
The 41 slave states of the Russian Federation will declare independence. Shortly after China will control all of Siberia to the Ural Mountains. Russia cannot defend Rostov on Don much less the Chinese border.
Sure they can. China doesn’t need to invade. Just let Russia continue to shoot itself in the foot.
Russia still has nukes…and China knows any ACTUAL Chinese incursion would be met with Fire. But they don’t need to do that. Although China has its own population bomb that will wreck it from the inside.
The Ukraine goal is very clear. Attrit the Russian forces until their lines collapse. Thanks to modern precision weapons, this is an achievable objective now being achieved. The American goal is confused by a weak President, a National Security Advisor who is not a Russian stooge but who has had the same effect, and a German Chancellor out to prove that the Germans are close to worthless as part of NATO, as witness his refusal to supply Ukraine with Taurus missiles, which would close the Kerch bridge and force a Russian withdrawal through lack of supplies. The reasonably Ukraine goal is to restore it pre-2014 border. As is sometimes forgotten the Russian space program built its complicated parts, such as its rocket engines, in Ukraine. Recent Ukraine drone strikes 700 miles inside Russia, not to mention strikes against Moscow, show that activity is still active. Ukraine also demonstrated that the planned NATO war of movement is worthless against russian minefields,but they have found the needed counter. If your objective is attrition you do not need to move a great deal, just enough to incent counterattacks or other movement.
Do you work for the MIC? If not your are a good little sheep drinking in the propaganda from the politburo.
I agree. There are other propaganda Slurpers here.
The same sheep who trusted Bush when he invaded Iraq. As result of that 10’s of thousands of Christians were slaughtered in the aftermath. Bush is a war criminal.
Probably Cheney really…
But doesn’t make Putin’s invasion correct.
Time to stop the Russians…they’ll leave Ukraine…just like they left Afghanistan. And the Russian Federation will crack…just like the USSR cracked into pieces.
You will of course produce no proof of your assertion, electing instead to throw a fit when you get mocked for emitting nonsense.
Look it up yourself. Toottoot
Keep drinking the hopium by the gallon. Ukraine lost the are before it started, as there never was any chance of “defeating” Russia, it was only ever a matter of how much Russia would choose to escalate. With over 25 million men with miltary experience under 65, Russia could field more men to fight than the entire population of Ukraine now, if they were pushed to it.
Had to correct your typos : “The Russian goal is very clear. Attrit the Ukraine forces until their lines collapse. Thanks to modern precision weapons, this is an achievable objective now being achieved.”
I guess you missed it when Gen Surovikin announced about a year ago that the Russian strategy was attrition. Ukraine has lost over 400K KIA now, 700K+ wounded, according to many sources, including satellite counting of fresh graves – average 500-1,000 KIA every day, like yesterday. While the most accurate count of Russian casualites, BBC/Mediazona, has their losses at about 40K KIA and estimated 100K wounded. Maintaining the average of 8:1 Ukraine:Russia casualties that has been more or less in effect since the war started – note almost all past wars have been won by the side that achieved 1.25:1 or greater.
And there is no stalemate, that is just the curent propaganda talking point from NATO, who are sliding down the slippery slope from “Vicotry!” to “We Lost”, now at the middle of the propaganda gauge at “Stalemate”, as Hopium pressure leaks out of the system.
… and a year later, Russia is slowly losing ground as its economy heaves over and sinks.
I am looking forward to your future excuses, comrade.
Exactly, all the Russian mil bloggers cry day in and day out while the Ukr mil bloggers sit smug making fun of the 1000 pictures of a single damaged leopard that the Russians show and 500 pictures of 4 damaged APCs.
If the Russians were doing so well, the Ukr mil bloggers would be the ones crying instead of smirking.
Man dude go get some Math Tutoring. CLEARY if the Ukrainians were losing 8 to 1, the defense lines would be going the OTHER direction for the last entire year.
CLEARY they are NOT. So Russia has now lost 7,000 km2 around Kharkiv. The Russians have also lost 2,400 km2 and the City of Kherson.
They are now slowly losing ground all along the Front Lines and CLEARLY have ships getting struck, Bridges Blown to heck and even Strategic Bombers in Russia “Spontaneously Exploding”. Crimea is being cut off from Water through Kherson, from Supplies from the bridges being blown to heck and now having their supply depots, Oil Storage and Command and Control centers being smoked behind the lines.
There’s a reason that they can’t get enough volunteers in Russia…they ALL know what’s happening to their friends, relatives and neighbors. Anybody under 60 has access to VPNs and other ways to get outside info. As Russians lose more and more troops, their replacements are getting skittish about conscription. They’re going to keep losing more and more as more glide bombs take out more and more Ammo and Supply Depots.
There’s enough independent sources able to be found to see how poorly the Russians have been running their War. Video evidence is a real byatch. Simple for people to count the losses of equipment on both sides. Better get some Non-Kremlin sources because you sound just silly.
The other morning I was at the gym. Each day there is a group of Russians, and a couple of Ukrainians that work out. They are all approximately in their late 50’s to 60’s. They do their respective workouts, but they always talk amongst each other.
The conversation with this group is always cordial. I know there can be hatred between the two, but I think we all know there are exceptions to everything. I think most people respect each other and leave it at that.
I was nearby when for whatever reason they started talking about the war in English. The conversation was primarily about each other’s respective family members. They wanted to know if a parent, sibling, or cousin was doing fine along with any fresh news from the old country. One happened to mention a family member that was trying to leave.
Either way, the conversation was going along fine when all of a sudden an American, whom I think is in his late 70s chimed in.
He started out by providing his take on the situation which was mainly what is repeated on TV here.
“I heard no one can get in or out of Ukraine because the government won’t let them and the Russians won’t either.”
While I’m not sure where he possibly heard that their entire group shot back that wasn’t true citing the many people that fled here, Germany, and even Russia itself. They mentioned it was true many people left illegally if they could not navigate the government rules, but most people try going through the proper channels first. The group unanimously expressed it’s very difficult for the men to leave Ukraine which I think is obvious.
One of the Russians chimed in by saying “Of course if you know the right people and have money you get anywhere you want. That’s universal and even applies in America”
The whole group started laughing.
That agitated the American a bit. So he tried changing the conversation direction slightly.
He started to spew the standard pro-Zelensky, Russia is the aggressor, and Russia is on the ropes line. Then went into why Ukraine needs more weapons because Russia started the whole thing. Pretty much everything you would expect to be said by an American watching the nightly mainstream news.
Well, the conversation went from smoldering to a rager. The Ukrainians AND the Russians all started shouting at him in disagreement over everything he said.
In essence, they told him most of what he stated is not the entire story, or in some cases false. A comment that stuck out to me, which also made me laugh, came from the quietest in their group.
“Don’t believe what you hear on CNN or Yahoo. It’s all BS. When you live through Communism you must learn how to read between the lines. You Americans haven’t lived through that long enough yet so you don’t know how to figure out what is really being said. You have that 	*; communism starting here and don’t even know it”
Each one nodded in agreement.
The American became defensive and told them they were full of it. He shook his head and waved his hands at them in disagreement. Not for a second did he ponder if there was any validity to their claim, nor did he seem interested in researching it further. The conversation essentially ended shortly after that.
So what did they say was actually going on (i.e., reading between the lines)?
Your statement is absurd. Suggesting that Ukraine become a member of NATO was guaranteed to be crossing a line that would trigger Putin and Russia. The US and its erstwhile allies do not give half a f*ck about Ukraine or Ukrainians, hence we witness the “counteroffensive” which is very similar to the Bay of Pigs debacle — its point being to slaughter as many Ukrainian troops as possible. Feeding them into the proverbial meat grinder.
The goal is to suck all the wealth of the US into the MI complex.
Correct. Finding or inventing conflicts in order to squander materiel and issue fat resupply contracts to our military-industrial complex is the foundation of US foreign policy.