Israel tells Palestinians where not to be and what roads not to use, but not how to get anyplace else. 
No Safe Places
Bloomberg reports Israel Rebuffs Calls to Halt Gaza War as Forces Move South
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, in a briefing with other members of his war cabinet, said that if the rest of the world wants the war to end quickly, it must stand with Israel. He accused international organizations of ignoring what he said were “abhorrent” cases of rape by Hamas fighters during the Oct. 7 incursion that touched off the latest violence.
“Hamas is trying to tear us down and instead we are taking them apart,” Netanyahu said, adding that Israeli forces had killed half of Hamas’s battalion commanders. “We will fight until the end, until a crushing victory.”
The Israeli military has encircled Khan Younis, the territory’s second-largest city, as it seeks to wipe out Hamas, which set off the war Oct. 7 after breaching barriers into southern Israel and killing about 1,200 people, mostly civilians.
The UN on Tuesday expressed frustration over the civilian deaths. UN spokesman Stephane Dujarric said messages to avoid civilian deaths “hasn’t been very successful, to be completely honest.” “There are no safe places” in Gaza, he said.
Israel Presses Assault on Hamas’s Last Major Gaza Bastion
The Wall Street Journal reports Israel Presses Assault on Hamas’s Last Major Gaza Bastion
Israeli forces closed in on southern Gaza’s largest city in what is becoming a decisive battle of the two-month-old war with Hamas.
Israeli forces moving into the militants’ stronghold of Khan Younis are entering a treacherous battleground of narrow streets packed with displaced Palestinians. In close-quarters combat, Hamas fighters there are defending their last major bastion in Gaza, home to its leader, Yahya Sinwar, and the location where Israel believes the group’s other leaders are hiding and holding hostages.
The battle for Khan Younis, a city of over 400,000 before the war built along an ancient trade route, also threatens to push tens of thousands of people into Rafah about 6 miles from the Egyptian border, where families are already sleeping in tents and parks, and food, water and cooking gas are scarce.
“The whole night we heard artillery shelling and rockets,” said Nasser Qassem, who lives in Khan Younis with his family. “People here are so afraid, it’s complete chaos, people broke into schools and took humanitarian aid by force, the situation is terrible.”
Flee Towards the Sea
Israel is encouraging civilians to move to Rafah on the border with Egypt, or to what it calls a “humanitarian zone” in Al Mawasi, a stretch of land in southern Gaza along the Mediterranean Sea.
“The best [thing] for them to do is to always move to the Mawasi, it will be safe for them,” said Lt. Col. Richard Hecht, a spokesman for the Israeli military. The United Nations has said it is impractical for a large number of Gazans to flee to Al Mawasi as the area is too small and lacks infrastructure.
Tens of thousands of people have already fled Khan Younis, where the humanitarian situation is rapidly deteriorating. Many have arrived in Rafah, which is already overcrowded and getting hit by Israeli strikes.
Around 70% of Gaza’s population of 2.2 million is currently in the southern part of the strip, according to the Palestinian Red Crescent. That includes the hundreds of thousands of people who fled the northern part of the enclave in recent weeks at the request of the Israeli military.
Tens of thousands have fled Khan Younis. Hundreds of thousands remain. They are supposed to flee to an area where 10,000 is crowded.
Hundreds of thousands fled the Gaza city area already and have to flee again.
Let’s discuss the Tunnels
Please note Israel Weighs Plan to Flood Gaza Tunnels With Seawater
The Israel Defense Forces finished assembling large seawater pumps roughly one mile north of the Al-Shati refugee camp around the middle of last month. Each of at least five pumps can draw water from the Mediterranean Sea and move thousands of cubic meters of water per hour into the tunnels, flooding them within weeks.
U.S. officials said they didn’t know how close the Israeli government was to carrying out the plan. Israel hasn’t made a final decision to move ahead, nor has it ruled the plan out, officials said.
Sentiment inside the U.S. was mixed. Some U.S. officials privately expressed concern about the plan, while other officials said the U.S. supports the disabling of the tunnels and said there wasn’t necessarily any U.S. opposition to the plan.
The Israeli military campaign has flattened neighborhoods and the fighting has displaced more than a million Gazans from their homes in the crowded strip of territory.
Most Gazans don’t currently have access to clean water. Among the sources for drinking water in Gaza are purification plants that have been recently disabled. Before Oct. 7, three Israeli pipelines sent water into Gaza. Of those, one has shut down and the other two operate at sharply reduced levels.
“It’s hard to tell what pumping seawater will do to the existing water and sewage infrastructure. It is hard to tell what it will do to groundwater reserves. And it’s hard to
Gaza’s aquifer, from which the population draws for drinking water and other uses, is already becoming saltier with a rise in the sea level, requiring more energy to fuel the desalination plants on which the population depends, said Zwijnenburg, who works for PAX, a Netherlands-based peace organization.
Flooding could affect Gaza’s already polluted soil, and hazardous substances stored in the tunnels could seep into the ground, he said in an email.
tell the impact on the stability of nearby buildings,” Alterman said.
What About Trump’s Plan?
Did you even remember he had one? The Wall Street Journal writes Revive Trump’s ‘Vision’ for Israeli-Palestinian Peace
The proposal is called “Peace to Prosperity: A Vision to Improve the Lives of the Palestinian and Israeli People”—or simply the vision. Presented by the Trump administration in 2020, it called for the establishment of a Palestinian state similar in size to the pre-1967 area of the West Bank and Gaza, with unprecedented investment in the Palestinian economy. The vision estimated that within a decade a million new jobs would be created, doubling Palestinian gross domestic product and significantly reducing the poverty rate. The vision provided for the integration of Palestinians into the regional and global economy and for major development projects in Gaza.
Mr. Netanyahu hailed the plan as an opportunity “Israel will not miss,” but Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas rejected it with “a thousand no’s.” The vision, he claimed, would give the Palestinians less land than previous proposals would have and prohibit the Palestinian Authority from paying stipends to reward Palestinian terrorists who attacked or murdered Israelis. Today, in the 19th year of his four-year term, Mr. Abbas opposes the vision’s requirements for democratization.
The Palestinians weren’t alone in rejecting the proposal. Most of the media denounced it as too pro-Israel, despite its several territorial concessions to the Palestinians.
Yeah right, let’s revive something that had no chance then or now. Had it not been so damn one-sided, perhaps the idea would have gone somewhere.
Trump Releases Mideast Peace Plan That Strongly Favors Israel
Please consider Trump Releases Mideast Peace Plan That Strongly Favors Israel
Mr. Trump’s plan would guarantee that Israel would control a unified Jerusalem as its capital and not require it to uproot any of the settlements in the West Bank that have provoked Palestinian outrage and alienated much of the world.
As part of the proposal, Israel agreed to limit its settlement construction in a four-year “land freeze,” during which Palestinian leaders can reconsider whether to engage in talks.
Mr. Trump said it was the first time that Israel had authorized the release of such a conceptual map illustrating territorial compromises it would make. He said it would “more than double Palestinian territory” while ensuring that “no Palestinians or Israelis will be uprooted from their homes.”
But under the plan, those Palestinians would find themselves virtually encircled by an expanded Israel and living within convoluted borders reminiscent of a gerrymandered congressional district. The proposal also envisions a tunnel connecting Gaza to the West Bank.
Mr. Netanyahu agreed that Mr. Trump had devised a “realistic path to a durable peace” that “strikes the right balance where others have failed.” But his move to annex West Bank territory could make any practical dealings with the Palestinians even more difficult.
One-State Solution
The New York Times did not even describe the main problem, that being the proposal is essentially a one-state solution.
The above image from Brookings.
“Path to a Dignified National Life”
Large portions of the West Bank would become Israel. Palestine would have no right of self-determination and no territorial rights.
Trump and Netanyahu promised a “path to a dignified national life“, whatever the hell that means.
Mr. Netanyahu agreed that Mr. Trump had devised a “realistic path to a durable peace” .
In practice, there was not a damn thing realistic about it and it was immediately rejected.
US Weapons Manufacturers Thrilled
The US Has No Clear, Achievable Goal in Ukraine, Nor Does Anyone Else
On August 20, I commented The US Has No Clear, Achievable Goal in Ukraine, Nor Does Anyone Else
What’s the US goal in Ukraine? Is it doable? What about Russia’s goal? Ukraine’s?
Perpetual War
After many months and at great cost Russia finally captured the Ukrainian city of Bakhmut. The city was totally destroyed in the process. Now Ukraine is struggling to win it back.
This reminds me of fighting over meaningless hills just like the US did in Vietnam.
Peace for Territory?
Any time the US or EU brings up the notion of peace for territory, Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelenskyy goes off the rails, frequently accompanied by the battle cry, “We cannot reward Putin”.
At best, there are three conflicting goals, none of which is clearly defined other than Ukraine’s.
The War in Gaza Must Go On
Trump’s one-sided proposal ensured the war and the violence would continue in Israel. Of course the Wall Street Journal backs it.
So, the war goes on. And it goes on in Ukraine.
US weapons manufacturers are now thrilled with not one but two perpetual wars.
And we have pushed Russia further into China’s arms. Isn’t that lovely.
But that’s OK because all we want is a “path to a dignified national life“, whatever the hell that means. Regardless, I am positive war is the way to achieve it.
“prohibit the Palestinian Authority from paying stipends to reward Palestinian terrorists who attacked or murdered Israelis”
Oh yeah, that’s obviously unfair and one-sided. The PA should continue to have the right to encourage terrorists to murder Israelis in any fair agreement.
Huh???? What am I misunderstanding here?
https://messaging-custom-newsletters.nytimes.com/dynamic/render?abVariantId=0&campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20231207&instance_id=109531&nl=the-morning&paid_regi=2&productCode=NN®i_id=122847700&segment_id=151943&te=1&uri=nyt%3A%2F%2Fnewsletter%2Fc5f34f73-3984-50a5-b03c-7179ce9f6529&user_id=7fa33e050ad13828b7e8599edd25457b
The NYT had a write up in there newsletter about the war in Gaza. I thought it depicted the situation and each side pretty well.
Most populated place,1000s of missles, only a few k dead. BS
mish is correct. there is no easy way to try and rule the world. countless empires before us have tried and failed. we are destroying the world and ourselves…………very dumb. amerikans are both arrogant and ignorant. deadly combo. all my old southern pals in charleston SC whose families held onto the 300 year old mansions and thousands of acres of plantation land…….did one thing. their great great grandpappy’s sold the confederate dollars and bought gold before the collapse of the currency. they also talked about how their ancestors were both arrogant and ignorant trying to take on the mechanics up north when they couldn’t stitch together 10 yards of clothing………..just farmers. lived there for a decade and took in the wisdom. all evil empires collapse. romans. spanish, confederates, and so will pax dumbfuckistan our current home…….for most of us. i still vote in italia too. those people know about ruins of empires past………..
This is a historicist’s platitude. Bare-knuckled evil empires in many cases thrived for hundreds of years. Their success is why they’re remembered. They died as all things have done. This isn’t to recommend empire, only to accept the fact that our moral sentiments don’t have much to do with anything except how we feel.
There are so many idiocies in this screed, Mish, that I can’t begin to address them. My short answer is that there is a sound reason American Indians are no longer taking “settlers’” scalps, and it has nothing to do with a two-state solution under any guise. Israel seems inclined to demand the same latitude in dealing with its enemies. It’s a straightforward question of who dominates and who loses, who lives and who dies. Israel has nominal per capita GDP of more than $50k-US, ten times the wealth-creation of the healthiest of its neighbors. I prefer the First World over the Indians. You’re welcome to your choice and to your fantasies of a middle ground.
you probably go to church on Sunday and make out you are a Christian
I haven’t been to church in more than 60 years, you cretin. (Since your response to me was personal, I respond in kind.)
RFK Jr. Admits to flying on the Lolita Express. Is this why he cucks for Israel?
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/watch-rfk-jr-admits-flying-epsteins-lolita-express-jet
If I could be guaranteed a “path to a dignified national life“ I just might move to the US.
But I don’t think they can guarantee one.
I was in Gaza in 2007. I saw firsthand how the Gazans are forced to live. The Israeli government is mentally ill. We hear so much about the WW2 holocaust to justify Israeli behavior. We are constantly reminded of how precious every Jewish child’s life is, yet we can see with our own eyes what the numbers are. Day after day we are told about the Israeli hostages, in the hundreds, while the MSM ignores the 10,000 Palestinian women and children who have been killed. It is a sickness. Why are we expected to sit with bated breath to see whether the Israeli hostages will be safe while we are to ignore the already dead, murdered Palestinian children? It is not hard to understand what really happened on October 7th. The settlements that were destroyed and the many settlers who were killed was done by the IDF, not Hamas. This is evident by how the cars from the concert and the homes in the settlements were destroyed. It was not done by small arms fire. It was done with helicopters and tanks. The Hannibal Directive was deployed. It is no coincidence that Netanyahu’s government was on the verge of collapse and he was probably going to prison, that this security failure occurred. The US needs to distance itself from Israel so that the region can negotiate peace. Israel will not negotiate when they know they have the US behind them.
Hamas/Isis appreciates your support. You could get a job with their propaganda department….
Stay on topic. This isn’t about me.
So how did Hamas end up with the 200+ hostages if it was the IDF?
UNGA resolution 194 shows the way forward, as it always has.
“…refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible.”
That’s all. No “Palestinian” or additional Arab state. Return of the original inhabitants who can live in peace with the Jews ONLY, and compensation to those who lost property in the chaos of the first Arab-Israeli war ONLY.
Ironically this is in black and white on the UNRWA website, which maintains hereditary “refugee” status for the Arab “Palestinian” people ONLY among all the refugees in the world, such that there are now over 10 times as many such refugees now as there were 75 years ago.
That needs to stop. Those people need citizenship in the nations of their birth. The will never be Israelis and the world needs to stop fooling itself. Israel will not dissolve itself and nobody can make them.
https://www.unrwa.org/content/resolution-194https://www.unrwa.org/content/resolution-194
75 years is a long time. They multiply at a rapid rate, so tenfold increase is not out of ordinary. The wisdom of the ages is, nobody wants to have anything to do with populations whose main skill is reproduction.
I find it amazing that some people are so upset when Hamas attacks a military facility, but are totally unconcerned about Israeli’s heavy handed respones. Over 6,000 kids have been murder but somehow that is OK. Thank God it’s not your kids being murder by Israel by weapons eagerly supplied by genocide Joe.
6,000… um, prove it.Another Jew hater among us.
Trotting out the old antisemitism trope. Sorry pal, that doesn’t work. It depends on the Jew. If it’s Netanyahu count me in. If its Jeffrey Sachs, I’m a fanboy. It’s call discretion. I judge people by the content of their character not by which tribe they belong to.
Hamas needs those dead children for their propaganda purposes – that’s why they blockade evacuation routes after the IDF warns of imminent attacks. One Hamas building manager was recorded refusing to pass on an urgent phoned-in bombing warning, saying, “We want to die – this is how we prove your cruelty”….
If the Neocons have it their way, which is NORMALLY the way it goes, these two fronts (Ukraine and Gaza) will drag on for YEARS to the tune of MORE TRILLIONS of BORROWED MONEY spent to feed the war machine.
These “wars” are purposeful pocket-lining enterprises and the sooner you get your minds away from the “REASONS” for these wars and concentrate on the CASH FLOWS, then you will save your brain spaces some time and effort and you can concentrate on those aspects of your lives that YOU CAN CONTROL.
Do not fall for this bullshit. GET YOUR MINDS RIGHT: it is ALL ABOUT MONEY when it comes to WARS.
I agree with your sentiment but differ on your conclusion. Perhaps some is for weapons sales, but, mainly it is about Israel and Jewish power. Neoconservatism is primarily a Jewish movement though some are non Jews.
https://lobelog.com/neoconservativism-in-a-nutshell/
The Iraq war was about getting rid of one of Israel’s enemies using US blood and treasure.
https://ronpaulinstitute.org/clean-break-to-dirty-wars/
Ben Shapiro wants to draft Nick Fuentes (all the Deplorables) to fight his battles.
The problem is that US foriegn policy is controlled by AIPAC and the neocons. Both are rabidly pro-Israel and the neocons control both political Parties. It’s amazing how easily politicians will sell out their country for a few shekels. For those interested in what neoconservatism actually is, I’d suggest the following article.
https://lobelog.com/neoconservativism-in-a-nutshell/
As more European Jews have returned to Israel the native Palestinians have been squeezed onto progressively smaller reservations as Israelis take more land. In October Hamas left the Gaza reservation on a raiding party brutalizing Israeli settlers near the Gaza border. (It appears likely that Bibi’s gov allowed this to happen to create a causus belli).
In response the IDF is flattening Gaza using US supplied munitions, bombs etc killing thousands and thousands of non-combatants and creating a humanitarian crisis for 2.2 million Caza civilians, there is no “safe place” on their Gaza reservation.
Israel’s long term dtartegy is to depopulate Gaza (and the west bank) of Palestinians. After sestroying infrastructure Israel isn’t going to rebuild it to allow Palestiians to repopulate Gaza. Pumping ocean water into the tunnels will salt the earth ;ike Rome did when the defeated Cartage and create a long lasting humaitarian crisis which will force Arab/Muslim countries to take large numbers of Gaza refugees and allow Jewish settlers to takeover Gaza territory. The Gaza strip will be recome the Bibi strip.
Hamas attacked military targets. But these are intertwined with civilians. The rave concert was I. The wrong place at the wrong time. Furthermore much of the collateral deaths were the result of IDF fire.
https://youtu.be/m9Ja8zHUjlw?si=1hENppI9ABw1bp3u
Egypt & Jordan should take them. It’s that simple. Jordan makes up 80% of historic Palestine. And they both have peace treaties with Israel . . . for now.
Wrong, they should stay were they are and form a Palestinian state. Israel needs to stop being a bully and the US has to stop enabling Israel’s arrogance by massive financial and military support.
WRONG! THE PALESTINANS NEED TO HAVE ANOTHER CIVIL WAR LIKE THEY DID IN 2005 WHEN ISRAEL HANDED CONTROL OVER TO THEM. THEN EVERYONE FROM HAMAS TO FATAH TO ISLAMIC JIHAD FOUGHT A BLOOD BATH ENSUED TO SEE WHO WOULD WIN. WELL, THAT WAS HAMAS. AND, HAMAS SWIFTLY MURDERED THE FATAH LEADERS JUST LIKE HEZBOLLAH DID BACK IN THE 70’S & 80, WHEN THEY WERE THROWING CHRISTIANS OFF THE TOP OF BUILDINGS.
YOU HAVE A LOT OF GOOD POINTS, ALEX, BUT YOUR POSITION ON ISRAEL VS HAMAS IS TOTALLY OFF BASE.
RADICAL ISLAM IS A CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER TO THE WORLD WITH ISRAEL BEING AT THE TIP OF THE SPEAR AND THE US MAKING UP ABOUT 85% OF THE REST OF IT.
1) YOU CAN’T REASON WITH THESE PEOPLE.
2) THEY DON’T WANT PEACE OR A TWO STATE SOLUTION.
3) THEY WANT TO WIPE JEWS & ISRAEL OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH. WELL, HITLER TRIED THAT AND FAILED.
ULTIMATELY, IT IS A VERY SAD THING THAT PALESTINIAN CHILDREN ARE DYING. BUT GUESS WHAT? THE BLAM LIES SQUARELY WITH HAMAS BASED ON THE 3 REASONS SHOW ABOVE & OTHERS.
Now, I’ll stop screaming and let’s wrap up with this very important point.
Iran already has a nuclear bomb. The IAEA stated this past spring that they had enriched uranium to 84% or almost to plutonium. And that’s at the facilities we know about. Iran has clandestine facilities. Most importantly, they got their nuke designs from NK just like we helped Israel with theirs. Has Israel ever tested a nuclear bomb? No! Why? They don’t have to because they know theirs will work, because our many tests prove they will. So just like Israel, Iran can claim nuclear ambiguity all they want.
So, there’s going to come a day when Iran will handoff 3 or so suitcase sized nukes off to a proxy and then LA, NYC & Miami go boom. That is a very real likelihood down the read 10 years or so.
Are you going to cry for all of the innocent American babies that are incinerated? People who hate Israel / US policies really need to get on the right side of this argument and stop blaming the US for all of the bad things radical Islamic terrorists are doing around the globe. YOU CAN’T CHANGE THEIR IDEOLOGY! NO ONE CAN. IT’S CALLED RADICAL ISLAM FOR A REASON, ALEX!!!
Our time is coming. There’s no telling how much carnage teams of 5-10 radical Islamists could do on a Sunday afternoon if they hit 10 stadiums. If you haven’t noticed, corrupt Christopher Wray is saying terrorist threats are as high as they’ve ever been. Now, we can blame FJB for that. In the 14M illegals he’s going to let walk across the border, there’s ample opportunity for lots of really bad guys like 10/7 to rain down death on America.
Sounds like a bad case of Islamophobia. One of the nicest person I know is Palestinian. You are just regurgitating propaganda from the media.
https://mondoweiss.net/2012/04/ive-been-duped-americas-travel-guide-rick-steves-says-our-media-black-out-the-brutal-occupation/
Sounds like a bad case of “I don’t know what they hell I’m talking about”.
I have no idea what % of Arabs that populate the earth are radical Islamists, but let’s assume for argument’s sake that, in Gaza, it’s about 10%. I’m talking about that 10% and not the other 90% that I’m going to assume your Palestinian friend falls into.
Again, you make zero sense and, or have zero ability to understand simple statements of fact.
For once we agree. You don’t know what you’re talking about!
Kill them all.
God knows his own.
Why would they take them and more importantly why would they want millions of people suddenly added to their welfare systems with no place to house them. They already have a home in Gaza and the West Bank.
More importantly, why would Israel want them in those countries. You’d have millions of people in a country next door who hated you and wanted revenge. They’d be able to plan and build up forces without Israel being able to over see things until such time as they decided to attack again. Better to have them close by in Gaza and the West Bank where you can keep an eye on them.
I guess the real question is why would anyone take them.
The points is that as Israel keeps flattening Gaza, they’re going to either be killed or forced to move elsewhere. Most likely that’s into the Sinia Peninsula.
Nope. If they act up from other countries, then Israel can go in and subdue the whole country and as the victor (just as Russia wants to do in Ukraine and has done in other satellite countries) annex and make the counties part of the new Israel.
Egypt and Jordan understand this.
So they are worried about chemicals stored in the tunnels contaminating the groundwater if sea water is pumped in? What sort of chemicals was Hamas storing and why were they stockpiling dangerous chemicals?
Rummy has the receipts for the sale of chemicals throughout the Mideast in his suit pocket in his coffin. .
They’re worried about saltwater contaminating the remaining aquifer that would destroy the ability to farm or get fresh water out of Gaza for decades or more.
Additionally, flooding the tunnels may weaken the land above and cause ginormous sink holes.
Having been looking at this conflict since about 1970 one thing stands out. Israel is becoming stronger and stronger, and the Palestinians have become weaker and weaker. In 1970 Israel had a weak economy and was surrounded by enemies that actually had armies that could and did invade Israel’s territory and in two cases almost succeeded (1968 and 1973). Now Israel is at peace with most of its neighbors and is militarily secure. Economically Israel has become a technological powerhouse making them a very desirable partner for just about everybody including Arab countries. On the other hand Palestinians have become economic and political lepers because they have wasted every opportunity presented to them. Maybe the Gaza operation will break the mold and something better comes out of it but I rather doubt it.
An interesting but superficial view. You state the current situation well but not how it got there which is the whole point. Your statement “the Palestinians have wasted every opportunity presented to them” requires explanation covering their history.
This isn’t a few crazy Arabs going overboard one night; this took decades in the making with the US and European vassals meddling every step of the way. I don’t have any solution but maybe the Irish situation may offer some useful ideas.
You are wrong. Listen to Col. MacGregor. Israel is more vulnerable than ever today.
https://www.youtube.com/live/lqagoQWFhvw?si=1BIwyIgzfNhvBKXy
Iran has nukes. See post above, so the Arab’s aren’t nearly as powerless as they seem.
Radical Islam doesn’t want peace or a 2-state solution. They want to kill all the Jews & destroy America.
People need to stop worrying about solutions that don’t include wiping radical Islam off the face of the earth which is what Isael is trying to do in their backyard.
It’s up to the world to do what needs to be done to Iran. Unfortunately, this probably won’t include the help of China & Russia, their new buddies.
Persians/Iranians are not Arabs, just saying.
Jews AND Americans shouldn thave been in the region in the FIRST place !
“The FIRST place” was 6,000 years ago….
Its a bit late now to complain about the Jews being there first
You can’t argue with a antisemite.
….hey man , I am Flemish , Antwerp is a Flemish city, Jews are all over the fckn place with their stupid hats and braids ! BUT I don t mind AT ALL; at least they are not a economic burden for our country unlike other ethnic groups, so that s OK ! Jews are in fact all over the world, in very powerful positions on top of that, so tell me WHY those braided idiots should have a fckn ‘homeland’ among Arab tribes, makes NO fckn sense , only causing problems !
I don’t know. Maybe it has something to do with Abraham & the 12 tribes of Israel who’ve lived in Judea since like the beginning of time?
…a text book example of a fckn anachronism in other words….
Sure Dough ! …in your deluded mind anyway….
The israeli plan for where gazans can go is clear and has always been clear. There are two options offered 1) to hell 2) away. There is no 3rd option, not after Bibi martyred a few thousand israeli citizens turning a blind eye to the first few hours of hamas attack, just like the USA did on 9-11.
2,000? More like 1,200. 200 of the 1,400 were Hamas.
The Israelis definitely knew something was afoot. We probably had the same blindness on 9/10/2001.
Most definitely. And they got caught dancing!
FDR had Admiral Halsey and the good ships far out at sea away from Pearl on 12/7/1941.
I delete Mish Talk after my comments
Good one. That will fix it.
1) There was a Palestinian state in Gaza, but 75% of Gazan voted for Hamas. Yasser Arafat cancelled the election. Hamas took over in a military coupe and turned it into a terrorist state.
2) For two decades Hamas prepared themselves for the big day : attacking Israel from all fronts.
3) Hamas is a political/military org. They gov Gaza. The Islamic Jihad (IJ) is a pure military org. The IJ is an Iranian proxy. They have no responsibility to the Palestinian people. Hamas is Muslim Bros HQ in Turkey. Al Sisi and Bibi hate both.
Hamas and the IJ compete/coordinate with each other.
4) Oct 7 was Putin’s birthday. Hamas knocked off Hezbollah Radwan war plans, compromising the element of surprise. Bibi got his Causus Belli. To reduce Israeli casualties the IDF prepared a modern urban warfare. 8200 VR trains troops, updating maps in real time, after destruction, using drones and satellites. Brigades/divisions command & control bunkers in the back with officers from the air force, gunners, navy, shin bet… coordinate the attack, serve the troops. A CAT D-9 leads special forces and tanks with “wind surf”. Any suspicious target is facing : F-15, drones, Apache helicopters, artillery, gunboats, missiles…
5) Minutes after the ceasefire was over Bibi got three IJ leaders in Khan Yunis. Yahya Sinwar, the little Hitler, whom Bibi released with 500 other prisoners for Yigal Shalit and Muhammed Deif might be hiding in Khan Yunis.
6) Hamas proved that Gazan cannot live side by side with Israel.
What BS. Netanyahu actually supported Hamas financially. Gaza never had control, it was always controlled by Israel. Hamas is Netanyahu’s Frankenstein. Let’s hope it ends up destroying him.
You complain that Israel supports Gaza, and you would complain if they abandoned Gaza….
1. Report to U.S. southern border.
2. Get on Abbot’s buses bound for Chicago.
3. Establish settlements in Wilmette, Winnetka, Kenilworth, Northbrook, Highland Park.
4. Replace the existing 2 Congressmen and Governor with your own people.
Don’t forget Skokie.
Two state solution is an oxymoron. Two states always means perpetual conflict.
Like territorial integrity. There are no territories that are indivisible integers; they’re all aggregations.
Straight from the horses mouth.
——-
Netanyahu vows ‘total victory’ against Hamas; says PA rejects Israel, can’t rule Gaza
At press conference, PM insists ground op is only way to destroy terror group, acknowledges differences with US, claims he let money into Strip for years for humanitarian reasons
By Jeremy Sharon and ToI Staff
3 December 2023, 1:27 am
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowed Saturday night not to allow the Palestinian Authority to take control of the Gaza Strip once Israel succeeds in removing Hamas from power, in sharp opposition to US President Joe Biden’s position and that of other key international actors.
Speaking during a press conference at the Kiryah army headquarters in Tel Aviv, Netanyahu accused the Ramallah-based Palestinian Authority of promoting and financing terrorism, and described its creation as “a terrible mistake.”
The prime minister also pledged to continue the war against Hamas “until the end” and until “total victory” is achieved over the terror organization, and claimed he had not been able to do so in previous rounds of conflict because there had not been the necessary domestic or international consensus to do so.
And Netanyahu promised to “do everything possible” to bring the remaining hostages back from captivity, while issuing a strong warning to Hezbollah, saying it would bring about the destruction of Lebanon if it initiated a broad war against Israel.
Answering questions about the Palestinian Authority’s potential role in a post-war Gaza, Netanyahu said forcefully that the Palestinian Authority “pays murderers” and “educate[s] their children to hate Israel and, to my sorrow, to murder Jews, and ultimately for the disappearance of the State of Israel.”
…
https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-vows-total-victory-against-hamas-says-pa-rejects-israel-cant-rule-gaza/
The implied part about ‘total destruction of Hamas’ is the same implied part about the ‘war on drugs’ or the ‘war on terrorism’ here.
In other words, there will never be a complete victory which means Israel is looking to permanently occupy and govern Gaza. Whether the US and the rest of the world lets that happen will be very interesting in the next few months.
Netanyahu is using this crisis to save himself from prison. What the Israel’s don’t realize is by giving into anger and seeking revenge, they may end up destroying Israel.
Garbage post. If Bibi isn’t in prison by now for his misdeeds, then he’s not going to prison, at least not for what’s in the past.
We shall see!
I have said this before, Egypt should be involved in a post-war Gaza. A third party of sorts.
But Egypt has its own problems with the Muslim Brotherhood, which Hams is a branch of and so aren’t interested.
Yeah, I am aware of that, they know what they’re dealing with though. Thing is, they have a stable relationship with Israel, they have history in that region and they border Gaza. All qualities that I think makes some sense post Hamas.
Mish has also ignored all the stories coming out of the area about how the Hamas fighters raped and abused their captives, even shot up their private parts. This may be why Hamas balked at releasing the remaining female hostages, who may be able to first person testify about what they experienced or watched.
——–
Silence Is Violence — but Not When It Comes to Israeli Rape Victims
Dec. 5, 2023, 4:42 p.m. ET
Bret Stephens
On Sunday, CNN’s Dana Bash asked Representative Pramila Jayapal why so many progressive women have been silent about the extensive reports of widespread rape and sexual assault carried out by Hamas against Israeli women during the massacres of Oct. 7.
What followed was a master class in evasion, both-sidesism and changing the subject from the chairwoman of the Congressional Progressive Caucus.
“I’ve condemned what Hamas has done,” Jayapal allowed, briefly, before moving immediately to condemn Israel. Bash persisted: “I was just asking about the women, and you turned it back to Israel. I’m asking about Hamas.”
“I’ve already answered your question, Dana,” Jayapal replied, adding that while rape was “horrific,” it “happens in war situations. Terrorist organizations like Hamas obviously are using these as tools. However, I think we have to be balanced about bringing in the outrages against Palestinians.” [No we do not. This is not the time or place for that! – Jojo]
…
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/05/opinion/silence-rape-israel-jews.html
Evidence?
The commission chairwoman has a dodgy past, implicated in information ops and torture handbook. Spreading a picture of Kurdish woman.
It’s the bayoneted Belgian babies and Kuwaiti incubator babies all over again.
What happened to all those cars from the rave? Hellfire missiles and 30mm chain guns are the only explanation, like the tank tracks around kibutzim.
It’s good to see some people see what’s happening.
Bernays has a lot more blood on his hands for WWI than Princip.
Yes, murdering thousands of women, children and babies is obviously the answer to these outrages (many of which have already been proved to be Israeli propaganda, like the beheading babies story).
And we’re to believe State propaganda from a State that is currently committing mass murder? Just like the decapitated baby stories. They keep on trotting their lies out.
Total BS.
There is no such thing as a silent progressive woman.
It would behoove us to start caring a lot more about our own stuff and problems and stop letting D.C and their friends rob us all blind. These illegal aliens pouring in don’t care about Palestine and Israel and they certainly don’t care about the US. They broke the law to enter.
Agreed, but Israel firsters are running Washington. It’s amazing how politicians will sell their country down the drain for $s.
I have heard only one Israel:Palestine peace proposal that makes sense, and it makes sense only if you have drunk the kool-aid and have militant-Critical-pacifist, militant-decolonialist, militant-Palestinian views and views akin to radical COMFORT (Committee On Making Further Offers for a Russian Truce, in Allen Drury’s novels) => that the whole world including the USA goes anti-Apartheid on Israel, expels Israel from the UN and imposes the Palestinian One-State Solution on the land. Israeli Jews can choose to flee, or to be killed. Afterwards there is peace.
At this point the corresponding peace proposal for Ukraine is for the USA to get out, including withdrawing from NATO, and let Europe figure what to do with a nasty Russian neighbor. Maybe Ukraine can fight hard enough that Russia allows Ukraine some freedom and autonomy.
Yes, in the non-kool-aid reckoning America loses. (But the world “wins”, eh.)
No. It’s much more simple than that. This situation resolves itself once the US stops propping Israel up with weapons. The US is enabling Israel to be a bully. If it wasn’t its tune would change it it would need to make peace.
Every country in Europe should be in NATO. There’s no NATO protecting Israel in the middle east.
Israel is a bully. You’ve drank a lot of kool-aid. It’s called self-defense, Alex.
The extent to which you’re a radical Islamic apologist is just stunning.
You call killing 15,000 innocent civilians self defense? I call it a war crime.
Alex wrote “I call it a war crime”
——
It’s not by any legal definition.
Israel should do like Putin in Ukraine. Just bomb/drone civilian targets with no warnings. Have you been calling Putin out on this policy?
If you think humanity would be better off with Israel gone, its people dead or in exile, and America kneecapped, you’re fooling yourself.
America kneecapped? Israel is an albatross hanging around Americas neck. As far as I’m concerned we cant jettison this brat soon enough.
Israeli media are saying that Netanyahu’s near term goal is a significant reduction of the population of Gaza. How? Force them into Egypt. Israeli media are also saying that the U.S. is trying to convince Arab countries in the region to accept Palestinian refugees with dollar enticements, debt forgiveness, etc..
My guess is the American people would never accept the huge mountain of dollars needed to pull this off unless it actually bought a long-term solution, like an enlargement of the West Bank to accommodate the 2 million displaced Gazans, and commitments to serious negotiations to give the Palestinians a viable contiguous State.
All of this killing with U.S. assistance could conceivably lead to a quasi-happy ending but I don’t think Biden’s people have the imagination, skill, budgetary space or political support, to pull it off. They’d also have to play serious hardball with Israel and the PA. I just don’t think sleepy weak Joe is up to it.
The USS Titanic under Biden will hit the iceberg waiting for it next November, with the election of Donald Trump.
We are so F*cked. But let’s be clear: Biden and Netanyahu have brought us to this point. Hamas just provides the pretext.
Jordan is the state the Palestinians are looking for.
2.1 million Palestinians already live there as citizens of Jordan. If they added the 2.5 million from Gaza, they would then have almost 50% of the population of the country.
Move in the 3 million from the West Bank and the problem is solved. Israel has their state and Palestinians have theirs.
Peace will reign? [lol]
The problem is our grifting politicians that use US $s to prop up Israel. Without our bombs and munitions. Israel would lose this conflict. Nikki Halley is the poster child for what’s wrong in American politics. To wit,
“We need Israel more than Israel needs us” What crap from a bought and paid for politician.
A fair and balanced discussion. Thanks Mish.
As is usual the case in this matter, Mish is delusional.
Please recall that Arafat was pretty much offered everything he wanted during the camp David negotiations.
“The true story of Camp David was that for the first time in the history of the conflict the American president put on the table a proposal, based on UN Security Council resolutions 242 and 338, very close to the Palestinian demands, and Arafat refused even to accept it as a basis for negotiations, walked out of the room, and deliberately turned to terrorism.”
Mish and other Geniuses of The Israeli/PLO conflict fail to realize that the PLO will NEVER negotiate because their stated goal is “destruction of the State of Israel”.
Plain and Simple folks.
Not. I guess you drink the bs that you read in our pro Isreal media. It easy to see why they and our altruistic politicians are that way. We have the best government money can buy. Did you ever read or hear Netanyahu,s remarks about this so called agreement? He is on record as saying that he put so many poison pills in the agreement that he knew the Palestinians would never accept it. This statement is on record but again the media never reported it.
Palestinian can’t accept the bias unacceptable offer on every negotiations. Put blame on every violence is the easiest way for Israel crimes.
I’m surprised they were the ones who were massacred before and during WWII and hunted down criminal NAZIs after WWII.
Israel was born of terrorism. It shall die of it. It is an evil place ruled by evil people.
Native Palestinians should be released from the Gaza concentration camp and returned to their homeland, Israel. Their stolen land, properties, and businesses should be returned and compensation awarded. There is no statute of limitations on genocide and persecution of the native Palestinians that began in1948.
In concentration camps, people are slaughtered. Population of Gaza has tripled in the last thirty years. Jews have lived in Israel for three thousand years, continuously, and for nearly two thousand years before Arabs showed up. Why are you not calling for return of Turkey to Greeks and Armenians? Iraq to Assyrians?
Jews are not native to Palestine. According to Jewish history the Jews under King Noah were flooded out of their homeland around the fresh water Black Sea when the Mediterranean over flowed at the Bosphorus Straits 9,000 years ago. Afterwards the wandering Jews camped outside of Cairo. The Jews traded sheep, labor, and masonry to the Egyptians for fish and wheat. Jews did not originate in Palestine. Jews in Palestine appear Palestinian just like Jews in Russia appear Russian, Jews in Africa appear African, and Jews in South America appear South American.
Do you mean like the English in Virginia?
Palestinians have been and continue to be slaughtered. The nobel Israelites are acting out the Torah for all to see.
Don’t you know the Torah is actually a property deed sanctioned by Yahew? I guess next we’ll be seeing Greece make claims to parts of Turkey based on the Iliad.
The IDF has their own YouTube channel so you can hear directly from them what they are actually doing. The description that starts this article is plain false.
It is worth also keeping in mind that Gaza is only 10km across. 3km per hour is a pretty normal walking pace.
Moving halfway across the territory is a few hours walk.
There is a huge amount of suffering and unsolvable problems in Gaza. The mechanics of relocating are not insurmountable.
3 Km walking pace is normal for 20 and 30 somethings who are healthy, walking on flat ground / sidewalks in nice sneakers and carrying nothing.
The pace is entirely different if you are 70+ years old or carrying / pushing a baby or trying to carry enough food/water for your entire family that may need to last weeks.
A the organization committing mass murder of woman and children are to be trusted? You’re a real bright one!
Gaza was given free and clear to the Palestinians. They had a chance to create a Hong Kong like outpost on the Med. What they chose was the PLO and then Hamas.
Palestinians, by a huge majority, support the Oct 7th attack. Have you seen these polls conducted by Arabs in the region? Probably not.
Return? Let’s remember that the Jews populated this entire area over 4,0000 years ago. Islam had not been established.
If you attack and refuse to recognize a legitimate country, the perpetrators are evil and cannot be partners in a peace.
Learn history so you don’t present yourselves as antisemitic. .
Did the Palestinians elect Hamas?
When was the vote?
Or did Hamas take over by force?
Hamas won a 2006 election by a plurality of 44.45%, mainly over the very corrupt and very unpopular Fatah. Hamas then proceeded to suppress opposition, link up with Iran for weapons and funding, plowed funds into underground bunkers for their troops (but not civilians) and then began a cycle of attacks on Israel, followed by Israeli excess force, civilian deaths that Hamas uses to garner more support and funds and pressure on Israel. The cycle continues, with “ceasefire” the next point of reset for the next, bigger pogrom.
And there have been no new elections, and won’t be until Hamas is gone. Go look up a man named Amin Al-Husseini and you’ll find the line of political descent from him to the Muslim Brotherhood to Hamas, and you’ll get the real flavor of this reactionary Jew-hating organization and the threat it is to Jews and Palestinians, inside Israel and inside Gaza.
Here, take a few minutes:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=peXAqwS2yqc
Helped by Israeli & American money, who wanted to see the PLO defeated.
Google is your friend!
https://www.google.com/search?q=election+of+hamas
Both. The Gazans voted majority for Hamas c.2006. Hamas then violently evicted the PLO c.2007. There has not been an election since then.
Marc, please pack up all your belongings and move from your house in the next 24 hours. The native Americans have claimed your house.
Joe Sobran nailed the definition of an antisemite: an antisemite is someone who the Jews don’t like.
There is an easier solution, Hamas leadership could simply surrender and Israel would stop the operation. Not sure why that is never broached
With the addition of returning all the hostages and even being granted safe passage to any country willing to accept them, it has been broached on various forums regularly over the time of this war but is roundly ignored by the media, the UN and all governments. Possibly because it is too logical and simple.
How would you ever be sure they all surrendered? You’d only be able to account for the leaders you knew about.
Hamas is more an ideal now than a specific group of people. That’s why it’s been around in one form or another for decades and will still be around after Israel finishes it’s current operations. The kids who see their parents or older siblings killed will in turn grow up in another 10-15 years to form the next wave in the same way the kids who witnessed the 2008 war form today’s Hamas.
You couldn’t ever be sure except to say that they would not be allowed to start another government.
As Israel will likely be providing security to Gaza for a long time into the future as in the West Bank (assuming the Gazans ARE allowed to return to Gaza at all and not expelled to Jordan or Egypt, whether they like it or not), I would offer bounty’s for anyone turning in Hamas fighters hiding in the population.
“The kids who see their parents or older siblings killed will in turn grow up in another 10-15 years to form the next wave in the same way the kids who witnessed the 2008 war form today’s Hamas.”
Well there’s a future for them to look forward to! They will eventually be killed, as always, and their families and kids will be made to suffer the same experiences and fates that the current batch is.
I guess this could be called the true “Life is a bitch and then you die” option. But you will have those 72 virgins to look forward to!
https://cartoonmovement.com/cartoon/72-virgins-allah
I wonder how long Israel will be able to afford to feed and clothe all the Palestinians without US money. There are millions there and birth rate is high.
The US experience in Afghanistan is a model for what will happen. A trillion dollars spent, the US forces constantly worrying about being ambushed and killed by smiling civilians.
There is also zero chance they can expel 2 million people. The rest of the world would not allow it nor would they accept the people. Gaza and the West Bank is their home.
Israel has no requirement to supply them. The aid trucks are all coming from the Egyptian side.
If Israel can corral the lot of them on the Rafah border and they get desperate enough for food and water, they will bust through the barriers, take the aid from the trucks and resettle themselves in the Sinai. Some will then migrate to Jordan.
The US experience in Vietnam is a model for what will happen. Ten year old shoeshine boys with a shine-box of hand grenades.
Because Hamas has actually succeeded in getting the hope for a Palestinian State back into discussion. With the Abraham’s Accord, the Palestinians would be a marginalized population without any hope. According to international law, Israel is the aggressor and occupier. Without the US running cover and propping Israel up it would need to seek a just peace. Fortunately for Israel American politicians can be bribed and American rubes can be made to cheerleader for evil through propaganda.
So all you can continue to do support terrorist Hamas and whine about Gazan circumstances that you have no ability to influence other than to post BS on comment boards.
Perhaps you should pick up a sign and go protest. It won’t help your cause any but at least you’ll have the opportunity to be hanging around with other likeminded losers.
Logical, but I don’t think that’s the Hamas M.O. and Israel would still occupy Gaza. Who is going to oversee it, the Israeli government has rejected the PA taking over the area.
When is it a religion and when is it a cult? That answer is important to the IRS and to the Romans when they owed the world. Let’s look at the Roman definition since it is over 2,000 years old: “It has to be old.” It has to have been there before Rome arrived, otherwise it is insurrection against Ceaser. That definition makes sense. It also got Christ crucified. Islam was 600 years later. It isn’t very old.
“the difference between a cult and a religion is the amount of real estate they own”
No.
“How many divisions does the Pope have?”
The attack of Oct7th does not justify what Israel is doing to the Gazans. Murdering 15000 humans, including 5000 children, the decimation of an entire population, cities, villages, towns wiped off the face of the earth. Of course, the rest of the world understands that Israel wouldn’t be able to do this without the US’s complete backing. Seeing Biden deflect for a genocidal thug like Netanyahu makes me want to vomit.
Did the children of Tokyo or Dresden deserve to be firebomb? Hiroshima & Nagasaki Nuked?
Try thinking a bit deeper next time please.
The answer is obviously no. They didn’t deserve to be bombed.
Humanity took a disastrous turn when civilians were made targets of war
How can one conduct a war if they have to worry civilians?
Worrying about civilians deaths is the reason that the US has lost every major military engagement after WWII.
Civilians are just collateral damage in war, in the wrong place at the wrong time.
So why are you so outraged about the Hamas attack Oct. 7? So what if there was collateral damage. I just don’t want my country supplying weapons to a nation who is murdering kids.
Your personal priority is soft cuddly things like kids that Hams uses to hide behind?
Others, thankfully, perhaps not. [Shrug]
exactly. all these idiots outraged about oct 7th, never stop and think about that is just collateral damage in an idiotic situation. how about amerika just try being a republic and not an empire for a few decades. these morons have no wisdom. intelligence and experience is meaningless without wisdom.
Korea was a stalemate, as China entered the war. Truman was not willing to widen the war into China. Vietnam also bordered China, thus Johnson was unwilling to take troops into North Vietnam, having learned the lesson of Korea.
Desert Storm was a success, as it freed Kuait from Saddam. The 2003 war removed Saddam from power, thus it was a success, as well.
The U.S. has not lost every major military engagement since WW2.
freeing the kuwaiti princes’ oil, who were in discos in paris and nyc seems like a failure of us taxpayer treasury. btw, saddam was taking it as payment for the iraq / iran war we backed him. his motive was just payment……….not endorsing it, but who gives a shit. all these arrogant amerikans want to rule the world. just idiotic.
It’s not a war crime when you are the victors.
Yep, people on here exhibit astonishing amounts of selective outrage. War is evil and should be avoided. The current war being conducted by Israel is evil and should be stopped. There is no reason for it except to rescue the psychopath Netanyahu from his many crimes by conducting a war crime in Gaza.
Alex wrote “There is no reason for it except to rescue the psychopath Netanyahu from his many crimes by conducting a war crime in Gaza.”
—–
Are you this dumb is every other part of your life also?
Israel is doing what is necessary to remove Hamas from power in Gaza. Recall that Hamas leadership shows no remorse for their crimes and has vowed to do the same thing again as often as they can get away with it.
Hamas paid the civilians of Gaza to act as human shields. Now they are paying the price for accepting support form Hamas.
Bryan, incase your mother never told you, two wrongs don’t make a right. Try thinking next time.
What do you suggest? Hamas leadership has stated that the attacks like on October 7th will continue until Israel is wiped off the map. What in your opinion Israel should do in order to prevent another October 7th given the position of Hamas?
In so many words, their opinion is that the Hamas approach of hiding behind human shields is valid and provides them with an unlimited “get out of jail” card for eternity that would effectively block all retribution. Israel must suck up any attacks they suffer.
Mike, You can’t be this niave. Israel is saying the same thing in cloaked terms. They are obviously trying to push the Palestinians out of Gaza. Israel is engaging in a very high risk gambit. I hope it blows up in their face.
Well, the Israelis could simply leave that part of the map. They should be used to this by now. Historically they make very poor neighbors and have been asked/forced to leave after a time just about everywhere. They have only been there since 1948, all religious propaganda not withstanding. A change in attitude is obviously needed.
No one in Gaza is innocent. The vast majority supported Hamas implicitly or explicitly, which has publicly declared over and over and over that the state of Israel must be ended and in their original charter, that all Jews must be killed.
Hamas has handed out many forms of support on a regular basis to Gazan Palestinians, including cash stipends, apartments, cars, furniture, food, cash for each baby they produce, arranged for over 500 trucks of incoming aid every single day prior to Oct 7th and more.
ALL Gazans were aware of what Hamas was doing, aware when Hamas/Islamic Jihad/etc. shot off missiles at Israel from their local neighborhoods, aware of the places that these groups stockpiled ammunition, aware of the entrances/exit points to Hamas tunnels, aware that their purpose, what they received in exchange for the support they accepted was that they were, plain and simple, human shields that could be sacrificed in an Israeli attack of Gaza.
Everyone in Gaza accepted Hamas support, partook of the handouts, knew Hamas mission was to wipe out Israel. Therefore, they are all guilty of supporting Hamas. All of Gaza is complicit! They have no right to complain of the Israel response.
Are you nuts?
6 month old babies or 13 year old girls are not to blame.
Any Jewish or Palestinian orphan could easily be raised by parents on the other side into a little Jew or Palestinian.
So what is your solution? What is Israel to do?
Kowtow to Hamas and say “OK, you win. Hiding behind your civilians, of all ages, is a winning formula. We give up. Come back and attack us whenever you want?”
I guess the Zionist should have given that a thought before launching this ill fated project. Bombing the King David Hotel, the office of the British administration that treated Jews preferentially to the indigenous population, is a bad way to start a nation. These same ingrates stood by and celebrated when the twin towers came crashing down, knowing it could be used by their agents in America (Richard Perle to name one) to have the US fight their enemies(Iraq, Syria, Libya and now Iran). And yet the dumb, ill informed Americans a cheering their abusers.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I suppose you want reparations for all black people in America due to their ancestors forced slavery and return of all American lands to the Indians that were here before us?
Idealism sound snice on paper but has no basis in reality.
He is right.
No one is Israel is innocent. May Allah deliver justice onto them!
Note, I’m agnostic, but wanted to highlight the vile character of Jojo’s sentiment by mirroring it back at him.
Those with no power, militarily, politically and socially, always beseech their particular god for help and support, to no real avail. SAD!
deflect, biden has the us navy running shotgun to the israeli occupatied genocide…….btw gaza is not a state. it is israel’s militarized apartheid city. this is all israel………a pawn of pax amerika………we use israel, they abuse palestine……that’s the deal. for now. amerikans make fatal allies. we’ll cut and run eventually and some other empire will take over. china, russia, persia……..who knows.
It seems like the forever supporters of Israel will overlook any atrocities committed.
What was originally pledged to be a Jewish homeland was immediately being turned into a Jewish state – with no regard for the existing inhabitants.
From 1948 until today, nothing done by Israelis is to be criticized or condemned.
No different than how Americans put Indians on Reservations to this day. Please educate yourself.
To this day?
Two rights don’t make a wrong. Let Israel do as it pleases. Just don’t involve the US in it though your bribery of politicians and honey pot traps. Without the US’s support we’ll see what happens to this obnoxious brat.
Sheridan and Buffalo Bill have already left the building.
Just like Russian public/supporters do with Russia’s attack on Ukraine. Such is life.
Trumps plan is essentially the same plan America gave the Native American Indians when they put them on reserves. Easy to see why that plan isn’t exactly being embraced.
I think flooding the tunnels would be a mistake for many of the reasons mentioned in the article. Better to pump them full of gas instead and kill all the Hamas operatives down there that way.
Gas can kill only Hamas. Salty land will be infertile and whole Gazarians will die of starvation. Hamas will never come back.
How does salty infertile land help anyone (non-Hamas Palestinians or Jews)?
You know that wouldn’t be acceptable to the world. Maybe Syria would approve.
Is there a pepper gas that might chase them out? But I’m sure they have gas masks. The question is how much O2 do they have as a supply?
Mish, talked to a Jewish guest on my show the other day and this came up and it was noted that the Israelis “Tell people where they will bomb so they can leave”. I noted that if we got the order that China was going to bomb my city of Medford, Oregon I couldn’t just “leave” and have a “place” waiting for me just like THAT. It’s just reality, right? What has concerned me about this horrendous Hamas attack is how Americans have been conditioned to conflate disagreeing with an Israeli government policy as being Anti-Semitic. That’s just plain brainwashing. I disagree with a load of American Government policies…that makes me anti-American? /sarc
“Americans have been conditioned falsely conflate disagreeing with an Israeli government policy”
Is that because the government sides with Israel no matter what Israel says or does?
Yes. Appears AIPAC holds incredible sway over the U.S. Congress, both sides of the aisle. Probably not healthy while working in the DC ecosystem to notice?
AIPAC and Neocon Inc.
Bill, You have a great show. I listen online.
Thank you kindly!
Main problem with a two-state solution is such that one half of the equation does not want it. It has been proposed too many times, on too many levels, with too many terms and it has always been rejected.
There is one simple reason for the rejection. People, who live in the Stone age, do not care about a two-State solution. Their primary agenda, as written in their law, in their constitution, in their government motto is the complete annihilation of Israel. As such, those are pretty bad parties to invite to the negotiating table.
Israel faces a very tough dilemma. Knock the offender out, or give them a punch and wait for the next round of attacks. Either way, the international community is not going to be happy. Moreover, the pushover organization that we call the United Nations, is going to cry foul one way or another.
If America got invaded by some other foreign country, do you think America would ask for world’s permission to strike back, to go to that other country’s capital, to fly the American flag on that country’s capital? Why is everyone questioning the response that Israel is giving? They are not marching to the other countries capital. They are giving warnings to the civilians all along, to minimize civilian casualties. How hard is it to understand?
Going back to the original question. There is never going to be peace in the place where a billion plus Muslims wants to ensure complete annihilation of a Jewish state that has 10 million people.
One question to ask everyone is this: what do you think your response would be if someone raped and killed your daughter? What do you think your response would be if someone took your sister hostage? What do you think your response would be if you were captured as a hostage, living underground in tunnels? Imagine what it would feel like to you. To your family. And now judge your own response.
Clinton came very close to getting a workable deal
and the Palestinians rejected it. what does that say?
Did the “Palestinians” reject it or did Palestinian terrorists kill the deal (with Israel’s help of course)?
Except for the Oslo accords, Palestinian leaders, with Palestinian militant guns at their backs, have rejected every peace move. Oslo showed, for a brief moment, what a Rabin and a Palestinian-Sadat might have achieved. But neither Arafat nor any other was willing or could go the whole Sadat distance. (and Sadat was assassinated.) (So was Rabin.)
— It is hard to tell what individual Palestinians want. Maybe like K. Marx says, they are defined by their economic circumstances…
Sadat is a great example, concluded a peace deal with Israel, recognized Israel, had the Sinai returned to Egypt, and was promptly assassinated. So too Itzhak Rabin. The reactionary forces in these societies serve the interests of those who wish to divide working people the world around, to continue their rule in Gaza and Tel Aviv. But the process to unite the working class is what they fear most, that’s why they want a “ceasefire”, to reset the cycle.
Palestinian leadership rejected it. If you want to call them terrorists some would agree with you.
Mike, all governments tell the truth about their involvements with controlled opposition groups. Can’t believe you could entertain such heretical thoughts. /sarc (the brainwashed will down vote this one, too)
BINGO!!!
Please show the map that was proposed back then. Per my memory, it looked like an archipelago. The trump plan looks much more reasonable in comparison.
Bing Videos
I’m unfortunate to have the same name as this neocon rube.
The two state solution is the only solution and it could be had today if the US would stop being pushed around by Neocon Inc. and AIPAC. The main problem is grifter politicians in the US.
The enslavement of the Palestinians will continue and why not, the enslaved the American government easy enough…Go AIPAC.
I really debated sharing this but, here it is. I was deployed in 1994, 1996, 2001-2004. One year in Saudi Arabia, 6 months between Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, and Oman. All the rest was in Afghanistan and Kyrgyzstan. The Afghan Muslims and the Kyrgyzstan Muslims, could care less about Palestine and their problems. Those on the Arabian peninsula, and especially Kuwait cared nothing for the Gazans. due to the fact they sided with Saddam Hussain in 1990 and once Kuwait was resecured they were expelled, 300,000. None of those Arabian peninsula countries mentioned considered the Gazans real Muslims. This opinion also translate to African Muslims. Yes, no way I know they have their own bigotry. The Saudi considered the Gazans as cockroaches… often compared to nothing more than those consuming welfare in the United States. And I will leave race out of this for obvious reasons. They believed these people were nothing more than bloodsuckers on the face of the Earth and were not worth having in their own countries.
My job in the Middle East was counterterrorism and counterintelligence for the US Air Force. Not something I really want to announce but, I’m sure you’ve read with serious skepticism and are looking for some sort of credibility..
My barber is Jordanian. His brother who owns the shop was in the Jordanian military. They feel the same way as those on the Arabian peninsula. But if you know history, you just know why. I don’t feel bad for the Gazans. They really nothing more than Neo Marxist Islamists who start trouble wherever they go and ruin the areas they occupy.
But now that oil/gas has been discovered off the coast of Gaza, if they manage not to lose, they will tell those other Arabs to pound sand for not helping them.
Agree. The only way that’s going to happen is for the UN to go in and assign moderates to be in charge and expel the PIJ, PLO, and the Hamas demons.
They will lose and they will not get that oil.
Thanks for sharing
Mish
Thanks for your post! What is your take on this article?
———-
Why Do the Arabs Hate the Palestinians?
By Lt. Col. (res.) Dr. Mordechai Kedar
September 24, 2020
BESA Center Perspectives Paper No. 1,758, September 24, 2020
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: For many reasons, the Arab world is not at all interested in giving the Palestinian Arabs a state. The Palestinian Arabs don’t really want one either, because why kill the “refugee” goose that lays the golden eggs?
In Israel and in much of the Western world, we tend to think the Arab world is united in its support for the Palestinians—that it wants nothing more than to solve the Palestinian problem by giving them a state, and that all Arabs and Muslims love the Palestinians and hate Israel. This is a simplistic and incomplete view. While it is true that many, perhaps even the majority, of Arabs and Muslims hate Israel, there are a good many who hate the Palestinians just as much.
Their hatred of Israel stems from its success at surviving despite wars, terror, boycotts, and constant enmity. It stems from the fact that a Jewish state exists even though Judaism, in the Muslim view, was superseded by Islam, the “true religion.” This hatred is exacerbated by other stark disparities: Israel is a democracy while many Arabs and Muslims live under dictatorships; Israel is rich while many Arabs and Muslims are poor; Israel is a paradise compared to some Arab countries, many of which resemble nothing so much as the last train stop before hell (see Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Sudan; the list goes on). In short, they despise Israel because it has succeeded in areas where they have failed.
But why should they hate the Palestinian Arabs? After all, the Arab narrative says the Palestinian Arabs’ land was stolen and they were forced to become refugees. Surely they are deserving of unreserved support?
The answer to this question is complex. It is a function of Middle Eastern culture that neither Israelis nor most Westerners fully understand or recognize.
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https://besacenter.org/do-arabs-hate-palestinians/
Jojo: I have you and Adam Smith having a sense of understanding the workings of a massive can-of-worms that is the Levant. // Your “The answer to this question is complex. It is a function of Middle Eastern culture that neither Israelis nor most Westerners fully understand or recognize.” is spot on. // I’m of the Judeo-Christian persuasion. Sat07Oct2023 gave me pause to casually research, for 45 days, from Abraham stumbling into Canaan to what became present day Israel. In brief, my research had me side with those who believe “The Jewish State was a mistake (research online).” // I know Genesis 12:1-3 and have that relating to Abram only, since there’s no mention of another name in those 3 verses. // I saved my notes from my 45 days of casual research. Perhaps I’ll assemble a short story from them. // It is extremely unlikely that I would have learned what I have spiritually without the Internet. The ever-worsening dumbing down here and abroad greatly pleases Satan and his minions. The mass of population will never support the truth but always errors and lies (Bertha Dudde 6493). 🔦✝️
Correct in every aspect.
big whoop. you learned that rich muslims, could care less about poor ones. i lived in an muslim hood in brooklyn in 80s and could have told you that when i was drunk and whoring around……….not much intelligence there old sport. no offense to you personally. the land in question has been the strategic link between africa and eurasia and important to human primates for 50,000 years. for the past 10,000 years it’s been controlled by empires. US empire today(zion is toast without US NAVY riding shotgun, as they are just our pawn for strategic location). before that it was British Mandate for short time 1920 to 1948. before that it was ottomans controlled. romans, persians, egyptians and other empires. the semitic tribes of canaan called jews and palestinians have never really been in control. without US tax payer money and military they are toast. just a platform for us to enforce the petro dollar hegemony……………the rest of your analysis is pure rubbish…………don’t care if you are an general or whatever………lots of empires make really dumb mistakes. propping up assholes like saudi and israel etc………seems pretty fucking stupid to anyone with an ounce of wisdom. no personal offense, i could give 2 shits about you protecting assholes for petro dollar protection racket. you are just a tool in the tool shed of the ruling class of C suites wall street and MIC……….
Gee, it’s almost as if there are consequences for killing young women and parading around with their corpses for your friends to spit on.
It’s almost as if there are no consequences to the US supporting Israel 100% of the time no matter what the F Israel does.
That does not excuse Hamas.
But the US undoubtedly increased the problem. US meddling in Ukraine may very well have precipitated the mess there.
I am tired of it.
Then they should have thought about that before letting Hamas be there.
“You F around, you’re gonna find out.”
We need THAT good ol cold war intimidating America back. That’s when the world was on the right track. A weak Joe Biden and progressives have ruined this country. Take it back!
How much are you personally willing to pay for these wars?
The US has $34 trillion in debt.
How much are you willing to let your taxes rise?
If not taxes the inevitable crony monetization the Fed is and will be doing to inflate away these war debts..
I do not believe it’s possible to inflate away debt. If it was, why do we have $34 trillion of it, taking up a bigger and bigger piece of US GDP?
Part of the problem is we are running it up faster than we are inflating it away.
Plus some parts of the debt can’t be inflated away (stuff that essentially grows at the rate of inflation like pension plans etc).
Defense contracts are booming. It’s not a question of paying anything…it’s a question of how much can I make?
Have you heard of budgeting?
Various economists such as F. Bastiat tell us that everyone looks to government to help them. (if they think that far, at the expense of someone else.) We have a big example of that problem, and Europe even worse. – I wonder if there is a neo-Marxist “inevitable law of history” that eventually government’s obligation to pay off everyone will Cloward-Piven lead to the bankruptcy of the nation.
Hamas was funded by israel to weaken the PLO, i’d say that backfired.