Why is Germany, the 4th Largest Economy in the Word, Defended by US Military?

America’s New Strategy

Excellent video podcast by George Friedman on Aukus, NATO, the EU, and America’s New Strategy.

For background on the following video, please see The Aukus Submarine Crisis Take II, Triumph of the British

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p464WkknYC4

Select Quotes

  • When we look at the allies we can count on, they were not the French. They were the British and the Australians. The French weren’t there.
  • We ask the question what does NATO do for the problems the US has at this point?
  • NATO is weakened by the Europeans. To have a military alliance, you have to have a military.
  • The NATO countries don’t have force enough to help up. Nor are they interested in spending the money.
  • Germany is the fourth largest country in the world. They should not have to be defended by the United States. They can defend themselves.
  • There is no common European foreign policy. So we are looking for a new relationship.
  • This [Aukus] is the one that existed since World War II. So naturally they [Australia] bought American submarines instead of French submarines. Life goes on.
  • Europe has left us with no choice. First, there is no Europe. There is a bunch of countries in Europe.
  • Second, they take actions based on their own national interests.
  • It is not a case of the US adopting this strategy [Aukus], it is the strategy of Europe.
  • You can only be bilateral, there is no Europe to work with.

Trump’s Vision

The views of Friedman and Trump on bilateral exchanges and NATO are very close.

Trump threatened to pull the US out of NATO. It would not have mattered if he did. The threat of Russia is more than a bit exaggerated and Friedman made that point as well.

With a subtle change, NATO was one of the areas on which Trump was correct.

World’s Policeman Yet Again

Whether or not Germany and the EU contribute 2% to their defense as Trump wanted, US troops do not belong in Germany or Europe in general.

The US cannot afford and should not try to be the world’s policeman. If the EU believes Russia is a threat, it should do something about it.

As long as the US provides all the military support the EU needs, why should the EU do anything?

EU Should Sleep In Its Own Bed

Right or wrong, Germany is more than willing to make natural gas deals with Russia and telecommunication deals with China. 

Why should the US be defending Germany and the EU in this setup?

EU Misread Biden and Misjudged Johnson, a Bad Combination

What’s the real story behind Australia’s dumping of French submarines for those built by the US?

Please consider my post What’s the real story behind Australia’s dumping of French submarines for those built by the US?

It ties in nicely with the views of Friedman.

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mrchinup
mrchinup
4 years ago
Finally we agree on something. The last time I looked we have about 37,000 troops in Germany propping up their economy . Get em out of there, screw Germany let em fight their own battles they are useless to us.
Webej
Webej
4 years ago
The French animus against Australia has nothing to do with NATO or who is a big shot in the world: It is about secretly conspiring for 18 months without talking to a partner about your change of plans. The American gambit of using Australia as a base for nuclear armed submarines will not make the world safer (the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists updated their doomsday clock accordingly).
George Friedman seems a little clueless … referring to the Soviets (3×) when he means Russia. He fails to grasp, as do many Americans, that not everyone is playing the game of “Who is the boss of the world”. The idea that China must be contained from breaking out of the Pacific is somewhat ludicrous. Referring to how small their economy actually is when measured in dollars kind of misses the point, which is, how big is their economy when it’s measured in the amount of stuff they can produce. The American obsession with being the boss of the world is what feeds their paranoia about China and seeing the actions of others always in the light of having the same intentions as they do themselves (what psychologists call projection). Insisting that Europeans go to Afghanistan (and then abandoning them) and Iraq and to be in a state of war with Russia & China just because America is the boss of NATO makes it kind of obvious that European countries are de facto vassal states.
If Germany were to defend itself, they would of course insist on a nuclear arsenal and the best technology that Audi etc., can get you.
Of course, Italy and the Netherlands (where uranium centrifuges were pioneered) may also want nukes, just in case.
And of course, there would be a resorting of priorities, with a common European security architecture in which Russia would obviously play a role, so that nobody has to worry all the time about neighbors crossing borders.
oee
oee
4 years ago
it is to create a Pax Americana. The experience of WWII taught the Establishment that instability anywhere means instability everywhere. if you do not know this , then go back to school. The US with  its military and its soft power created a massive prosperity sphere that created the largest prosperity for anybody from 1947 to 1973. 
TheBigRoastBeefFrog
TheBigRoastBeefFrog
4 years ago
Hi, 
Yankee Go Home 
Let us shut down Ramstein and the EU will forbid overflight rights for the US Military.
That might help prevent the US starting countless wars. Maybe we can finally do Business with whom we want. 
The US will go to war with China and I don’t want to be dragged into it.
From Germany
TheBigRoastBeefFrog
PostCambrian
PostCambrian
4 years ago
So why does the US defend Japan? Yes both Japan and Germany could contribute more to their defense (and should and will given the proper motivation). Trump may have been “right” but for the wrong reasons. For Trump it was only a matter of dollars and cents (and if it would help him politically). Germany needs to be able to take of itself (at least in a limited sense) because it can’t rely on any other country any longer.
Japan and Germany lack military spending due to posts WWII history. Their immediate neighbors do not want them to have a strong military. It is past time to ditch the post-war thinking.
Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear
4 years ago
The Nordstrom Pipeline was a backdoor for Russia to gain influence to the entire European continent. And the fact Germany was eager to build the pipeline means Germany still has dreams of conquering Europe. Although the UK has exited the EU, the UK cannot fight an inevitable continental war by itself, so US bases in Germany keeps a balance of power. The UK is, after all, part of the US heritage.
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
4 years ago
Reply to  Six000mileyear
Germany has in fact already ‘conquered’ Europe, economically that is  ! Germany is the most efficient european nation, Nordstrom merely serves economic interests. The german army is a joke, nothing to fear there…  
StukiMoi
StukiMoi
4 years ago
Reply to  Six000mileyear
When you add a new supplier you did not have before, you DECREASE the influence any given supplier have over you. You don’t increase it.
Germany can still get gas from all the channels it currently gets gas from. It just adds another option. By facilitating mothballing/saving its own hydrocarbons, mostly coal, while burning through Russia’s stack, Germany is very much keeping its own options open. Hence minimizing any troublesome “influence” anyone will have over it, on account of energy, in the future.
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
Reply to  Six000mileyear
Nordstrom is opposed by the US because Ukraine bribed a bunch of us. Including our sitting president and his son. Has nothing to do with Russian influence. What does it matter if the gas flows from Russia through Ukraine, Poland or the Baltic sea? Russia can still pull the plug with the same effect.
Webej
Webej
4 years ago
Reply to  KidHorn
It matter because in the past the Ukraine has instigated problems, pilfers gas, and adds costs.
Cutting out the middle man is easy and obvious.
Russia has never cut off the gas …
Everyone keeps repeating this facile idea that Europe will be more dependent when there is a new pipeline, without considering whether the total import is actually going up.
Webej
Webej
4 years ago
Reply to  Six000mileyear
Oh. I thought the US was a UK heritage project.
Nordstrom changes exactly nothing strategically.
What difference does it make if the gas flows through one pipeline or another?
FromBrussels
FromBrussels
4 years ago
 Like Mish  says there are NO friends in international relations, ONLY financial and geopolitical interests ..That ‘s why the US is still in Germany ! It is fn easy : YANKEES BUZZ OFF !!  WW2 was a long long time ago, even the USSR is history, all the US of A did in recent decades was messing up the Middle East, triggering a refugee crisis in Europe, FORCING the worthless and spineless EU to be on bad terms with Russia, even armtwisting EU clowns into making basket case Ukraine a fn EU(and Nato) member, which didn ‘t happen THANKS to Putin !  Mind you, I do not like the chauvinistic french at all , so I don t give a f$ck about the failed  submarine deal.   Yet I suggest you Anglophones cozy up to each other,  your linguistic proficiency has never been very impressive so at least you do understand each other without the need of any interpreters….And no doubt that  you WILL even succeed in triggering WW3 one day, employing all those mighty impressive arms for once and fn all,  the english have always been very good at it, so there’s hope to get out of the present unsustainable, out of the blue printed money economic paradigm, with a good fn WW ! a WW that might be finished in a matter of days this time, unlesss the parties involved agree to use good old conservative arms, which is very unlikely as no party involved will be willing to lose face.  Good joss to everyone ! ….we ll all need it … 
Carl_R
Carl_R
4 years ago
I suspect that the reason the US is in Germany has to do with it giving a base from which they can spy on on a wide area. There is no reason to defend Germany, or the EU for that matter. They could defend themselves if they wanted to.
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
With Germany having started two world wars in less than 25 years, the original idea was to keep Germany demilitarized until the European economy could be rebuilt.
Friedman actually has a great lecture on the 20th century events that changed the world…..that nobody saw coming….and WWI wasn’t on anybody’s radar in 1900….and the idea that a defeated Germany could remilitarize  and have the strongest army in the world just over 20 years later would have been laughed at in the 1920’s.
So after WWII, Germany was occupied out of an abundance of caution….and by 1948, we had a Cold War that gave us a fairly good reason to be there until 1989. Since then, it’s been stupid to waste the money.
Carl_R
Carl_R
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
I understand why the bases were originally built. Why do they still exist?
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
I have friends who found cute blondes to marry there while they were in the military . Maybe we stay for the good-looking German babes.
Carl_R
Carl_R
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Or to maintain the status quo. Reduce the number of bases, you don’t have any place to put all the troops, so you have to reduce their numbers. Some of us view that as a good thing, but not necessarily the military leaders.
Webej
Webej
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
Yes. Well said.
Everybody has always been terrified of a rearmed Germany with a nuclear arsenal, Russia even more than the UK or US.
It was no joy for the Germans to be considered the future battlefield space for a war between the Soviets/Americans with ?nuclear weapons thrown in the mix.
Perhaps everybody is over it, and the Serbs, Greeks, Russians, and Israelis are now cool with Germany revving its industrial might to become a first class military power. And perhaps throw in a rearmed Japan to thwart N Korea & China.
Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab
4 years ago
Reply to  Carl_R
US bases in Germany and Japan are like GITMO, relic of past victories that military doesn’t want to give up because that is what the leadership knows and loves, strategic advantages for rapid response (Germany and Japan) notwithstanding.
One-armed Economist
One-armed Economist
4 years ago
Maybe b/e we’re scared of them having much of an army? Personal experience: I’ve have to admit when I heard the German audience members at an Olympic sporting event Vs an American (and our chant), hearing “Deutche Land” chanted loudly by them was a bit of a chilling sound
I am NOT saying that kind of feeling is right and not prejudiced (though they have the dubious distinction of 2 World Wars) but the US still lives with a deep concern about them. Sorry. But IMHO it’s true. Might as well talk about it and see f that helps.
whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
“Why is Germany, the 4th Largest Economy in the Word, Defended by US Military?”

Follow the money.  The larger the military and the military commitments, the more money (and power) that some people can acquire.   

Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
4 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
“Follow the money”
Always.
Most of everything can be explained following this advice.
RonJ
RonJ
4 years ago
World’s Policeman Yet Again”
The Korean War was called a police action. I don’t remember seeing any films of American soldiers in police cars, stopping and arresting North Korean soldiers.
The U.S. is an empire. It does what empires do. “The dollar is our currency, but your problem.” The empire throws it’s weight around. Empires rise and fall, replaced by another rising empire. China is waiting in the wings, for its coming out party.
Anon1970
Anon1970
4 years ago
Reply to  RonJ
As I recall, the Viet Nam war was not called a war, at least officially, but a conflict. But 58,000 Americans died there just the same.
KidHorn
KidHorn
4 years ago
China is a far bigger threat than Russia. Probably bigger than Russia ever was. Russia could spread communism to their neighboring countries, but would never be a threat to us. China can easily become a huge threat to us.
Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill
4 years ago
I ask a similar question of Israel and others as well. Doesn’t our Constituiton say the military is supposed to function for a “common defense” of the union of states? 

Anon1970
Anon1970
4 years ago
Reply to  Bungalow Bill
Our politicians in Washington are bought and paid for. Campaign donors expect something in return and our politicians are only too happy to oblige. When the conservative Supreme Court ruled on the Citizens United case in 2010, it opened up the campaign floodgates. The late Sheldon Adelson was very generous to Republicans who strongly supported Israel. Back in 1947, when the partition of Mandate Palestine came up for a UN vote, there was very little support in official Washington for the creation of a Jewish state, especially among Republicans. Moreover, President Truman and his adviser, Clark Clifford, were among the few Democrats in the government who actually supported partition. 
kiers
kiers
4 years ago
It’s a quid pro quo:  we “get to” defend Germany in exchange for Germans getting a higher than normal exchange rate to mitigate their export competitiveness.  Give up the first means giving up the latter?
Rbm
Rbm
4 years ago
The new cold war is not military might.  Its information and disinformation.  There are other ways to acquire influence and resources than going to war.  
sylabub
sylabub
4 years ago
Not too many countries in Europe want a resurgent German military.  Was told the purpose of NATO was to keep the USA in Europe, Germany down and the Russians out.
Corvinus
Corvinus
4 years ago
Reply to  sylabub
Europeans still harbor resentments and disagreements from things that happened hundreds of years ago – their ‘fear’ of Germany is hardly realistic. I would say the likelihood of Germany attempting to relive the ‘glory days’ of the early 20th century is so unlikely as to be practically impossible. The social and cultural milieu in Europe is completely incapable of cultivating that sort of thing; it would take severe shifts in general attitude over multiple generations.
Europe is militarily soft on the whole; I think they’d have trouble just fending off a credible threat much less engage in military conquest. 
Webej
Webej
4 years ago
Reply to  Corvinus
Morals and attitudes are putty in the hands of the powers that be.
  • Who would have thought all those Croats and Serbians would kill each other, there was hardly a family that did not count one of the other in its midst?
  • Who would have believed you if you had foretold the US government would be patrolling & censoring all news & information through proxy corporations? Or that people would be barred from going to work or school?
Nothing changes faster than attitudes under the right circumstances and propaganda.
Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
4 years ago
US hegemony 
Agree with your assessment, but this all about “how many aircraft carriers does your country have?”  Being on top has its privileges —> strong reserve currency / telling others what to do / etc.
ALL BS.  Bring the troops home (from just about everywhere).
Webej
Webej
4 years ago
Reply to  Tony Bennett
Aircraft carriers are sitting ducks for today’s hypersonic missiles and nuclear powered torpedoes.
Bam_Man
Bam_Man
4 years ago
So that we can buy the stuff they make and pay for it with make-believe money that pays no interest?
Scooot
Scooot
4 years ago
The US aren’t defending Germany, they’re keeping an eye on them. -:)
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Friedman is so good on so many things.
He lives here, out in the Hill Country somewhere….I wish he’d speak around here so I could see him live and let him know how big a fan I am.
whirlaway
whirlaway
4 years ago
Reply to  Eddie_T
I had to go back and make sure that you were not praising Thomas Friedman! 
Eddie_T
Eddie_T
4 years ago
Reply to  whirlaway
That will NEVER happen. lol.

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