Biden is pressing for a peace deal based on lies. But it’s hard to accept lies when they are admitted lies in advance.
A statement by Yohanan Plesner, president of the Jerusalem-based Israel Democracy Institute think tank caught my eye today: “There’s sufficient ambiguity in the wording for both sides to take a deal.”
Indeed. There is ambiguity in the wording. However ….
Netanyahu Open to a Cease-Fire if He Can Resume Fighting
On June 2, I commented Netanyahu Open to a Cease-Fire if He Can Resume Fighting
Allegedly there is a step towards a cease-fire in Gaza. But the headline appears to be massively contradictory noise.
The WSJ reports “Biden’s speech was designed to put pressure on Hamas to do a deal, said Mairav Zonszein, a senior Israel analyst for the International Crisis Group.”
“The proposal allows Israel to preserve the right to renew fighting at any time Israel senses that the negotiations are futile,” the Israeli official said.
To press for the one-sided deal, the WSJ reported Secretary of State Antony Blinken made calls over the weekend to two top Israeli decision makers, Defense Minister Yoav Gallant and war cabinet member Benny Gantz, praising Israel for considering a cease-fire agreement and saying that the onus was now on Hamas to accept a deal.
I replied “Similarly, the onus is on vegetarians to accept my offer to expand the number of vegetarians by allowing them to eat meat six days a week.”
Hamas cannot accept Biden’s peace deal when Netanyahu admits upfront that the deal is a pack of lies.
Half-Assed Meddling Backfires
Biden’s incessant meddling not only doesn’t help, it backfired.
The Wall Street Journal reports Biden Enlisted Qatar and Egypt to Pressure Hamas. It Backfired.
Qatar and Egypt have told Hamas leaders in recent days that they face possible arrest, freezing of their assets, sanctions and expulsion from their haven in Doha if they don’t agree to a cease-fire with Israel, officials familiar with the talks said.
The threats were made at the behest of the Biden administration, which is searching for a way to cajole a U.S.-designated terrorist group into striking a deal that the president needs amid a political maelstrom over the war.
It had the opposite of the desired effect. On Thursday, after the threats were made, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh, the head of the group’s political bureau in exile in Qatar, said he wouldn’t agree on a deal that doesn’t meet the group’s conditions. Bearing a message from the group’s most important leader in Gaza, Yahya Sinwar, Haniyeh said the current proposal—broached by President Biden himself in a news conference a week ago—is unacceptable for Hamas because, in the group’s eyes, it doesn’t guarantee an end to the war.
Understanding the Setup
Biden brokered a one-sided deal based on lies with “sufficient ambiguity” to allegedly please everyone.
Then Netanyahu slammed the deal by saying upfront that Israel would not honor it.
How’s that supposed to work?
A deal based on lies is possible, temporarily, but not if one side announces upfront they will not honor it.
An Israeli Government Shakeup
The Wall Street Journal reports Netanyahu’s Chief Rival to Announce Exit From Israeli Government
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s top political rival was expected to quit the government on Sunday, in a move aimed at toppling his coalition.
But the strategy risks backfiring and empowering hawkish lawmakers less aligned with the Biden administration as Washington makes a renewed push to end the war in Gaza and free hostages held there.
Benny Gantz, who leads the centrist National Unity party and was one of three war cabinet members, was expected to announce Sunday night local time that he was leaving the government due to a lack of long-term strategy for the war in Gaza, among other reasons, according to people close to Gantz.
Gantz’s expected departure from the government signifies that Israel’s unity at the start of the war has passed. The move is expected to fuel antigovernment protests and demands for early elections. Elections could happen as early as this summer, but more realistically early next year, if at all, analysts say.
How Gantz’s strategy will affect Israel’s handling of the war is unclear.
Netanyahu could replace Gantz with hard-line lawmakers currently in the opposition or coalition partners who oppose the U.S.-backed Israeli proposal to end the war and free Israel’s hostages. He could also dissolve the war cabinet, bringing decision-making back to the regular security cabinet where his far-right coalition allies could have more sway. This could heighten divisions within the coalition itself as internal disagreements eventually become public.
Still, Gantz and Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant have both publicly complained their seats at the war cabinet table haven’t given them much influence over the war’s management. Netanyahu, analysts say, along with the army’s top brass, is tightly in control of the war’s direction as well as the negotiations to free the hostages and end the war.
“Israeli policy is de facto being set by Netanyahu,” said Giora Eiland, a former Israeli national security adviser.
Netanyahu repeatedly crosses Biden’s red lines. Yet Biden constantly makes half-baked peace proposals cannot possibly work, even temporarily, as long as Netanyahu is in power.
It’s a mystery why Biden (more accurately Biden’s handlers) cannot grasp this.
Who Are the Obstacles to Peace?
- Netanyahu
- Biden
- Hamas Leadership
Peace prospects will not go anywhere until the radicals are out of power or the radicals have a huge attitude change.
That means radicals on both sides.
Who Governs the Palestinians?
The answer is a complicated mess. It’s also a huge obstacle to peace.
Generally Hamas is in control of Gaza and the Palestinian Authority elsewhere.
CFR has a nice writeup on Who Governs the Palestinians?
Drawing a Line
It’s OK to object to Israeli actions. But siding with Hamas is ridiculous in light of this CFR snip.
Before the current war shattered all semblance of day-to-day life in Gaza, Hamas had nominally followed the PA’s Basic Law, but also implemented a restrictive interpretation of Islamic law that it used to repress the rights of women, the LGBTQ+ community, and other marginalized groups. In addition, the Hamas government had removed most checks on its power, having suppressed opposition from Gazan media outlets, politicians, civilian activists, and nongovernmental organizations (NGOs), often through violence and arbitrary arrest.
No Solution Without Two States
Eurointelligence accurately notes No Solution Without Two States.
This is Israel’s fifth conflict in Gaza, and it won’t be the last if Israeli and Palestinians do not find a way to reimagine a new way forward despite their difficult history. The land was not without a people when the people without a land arrived. And there will be no security for Israel without granting Palestinians their rights on this land.
A majority of Palestinians are for a two-state solution that guarantees Israel’s right to exist. Israel focuses on Hamas, a minority, and uses this as a reason not to engage in negotiations for a two-state solution. Attending only to the extremists won’t strengthen the healthy part of the Palestinian society. On the contrary, the killing and destruction in Gaza drives the next generation towards extremism. This policy won’t guarantee Israel’s security. Repeating the same thing again and again, expecting a different outcome, is madness as Einstein attested. And the next cycle of violence could be worse than Oct 7.
A two-state solution will be a win-win for both sides, respecting the Palestinians’ right to their own land and Israel’s need for security. It will reduce the threat from Hamas and Hezbollah. It will take the fire out of the conflict.
Meanwhile, Biden tries appease everyone with lies that do not work, especially when Netanyahu repeatedly smacks Biden in the face with them.
Seriously In Need of an Attitude Change
A peace proposal must start with an attitude change.
And the attitude change must start with a fair answer to this question: What Are the Fundamental Rights of Israelis and Palestinians?
The EU and the US [and Israel] need to recognize the fundamental rights of a Palestinian child are the same as that of a Israeli child, because until we do, there will never be peace.
Until Israel recognizes the fundamental rights of Palestinians and agrees to work with the more moderate Palestinian Authority loosely in charge of the West Bank, there can be no peace.
Similarly, the Palestinian Authority needs to recognize the fundamental rights of Israel. It would be all the better if Hamas would do the same, but Israel cannot wait for Hamas.
A genuine peace process would start immediately if Israel were to say:
“We recognize the fundamental rights of a Palestinian child are the same as that of a Israeli child. Who wants in on the discussion?“
By insisting on the total destruction of Hamas first, killing tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians in the process, Israel has taken the path of perpetual war.
An attitude change takes courage. And Israel needs to go first. The only other choice is perpetual war.
Yeah… no.
This whole No Solution Without Two States. is so stupid on so many accounts..
Like they’re going to say Oh we can shoot at each other anymore because we are both states now. How F’n stupid is this mindset..LMAO
I would contend that with a Palestinian state, Israel need show less concern for civilian injury and death.
Living in a small town for many years, it is hard to say weather or not there has ever been a Jewish or Palestinian resident to draw comparisons. The following is a documentary of Demographic Isolation that allows media to control narratives concerning ethnic prejudice in international strife.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCsnTxjRNPA
Norman Lear was the Jewish creator of “All in the Family”, with Racist Archie Bunker as the main Character. Almost no one escaped Archie’s wrath, Blacks, Jews, and people from Puerto Rico etc.He was also the creator of Fernwood 2night which addressed similar small mindedness through satire.
Let us not forget the Genius of Mel Brooks in his creation of Blazing Saddles which also took on racism with sarcasm.
Conspicuous in these great Jewish Creators work was the neglect to take on the Racism, and Cruelty that Zionism directs at Palestinians. Awareness is growing concerning the inhumanity exhibited in this region, but the behavior is so over the top that I don’t even think that Norman, or Mel would be able to create sarcasm sufficient to embarrasses these perpetrators out of their mindset.
If the prophets of The Old Testament could not turn the direction of a people: I don’t think a joke or two will do it either. Palestine is Prime Real Estate akin to the size and quality of coastline from Santa Barbara, Ca. all the way to San Diego, Ca.. It was thought to be “there for the taking” As in the recorded history in The Old Testament, time will tell. I think I would rather live in Toledo.
The Palestinians are treated as they are by Israel because they refuse to accept that that the British//UN partition of the land into the state of Israel and Palestinian territory back in 1948.
You really ought to read the history of the area before making BS comments about situations that that you are not qualified to opine upon.
That being said, I WILL point you to a good article to learn from, even though it is from Salon, which is on the bleeding heart, far left side of the political spectrum and takes the side of the Arabs/Palestinians in this writing.
If the news is fake, imagine how bad History is.
Let us imagine that there was a response by a few Arabs against the Jewish bombing and aggressions against Palestinians in 1948 as the article states. The collective punishment Israel offered to drive out the whole Palestinian population from their homeland was not an appropriate response. It would be akin to removing the whole black population out of Compton just because a few bad apples played their hippity hop music too loud.
A good Biblical question is, why did King David have to buy the threshing floor from a Palestinian for fifty shekels of silver if it was already owned by the Tribe????? The answer will surprise you!!!
Actually, Israel’s been going first for 50 years with zip to show for the two state solution. When it comes to the religion of submission only unconditional defeat counts in the history of such culture wars.
Seems to me Israel is already acting as if a Palestinian State exists.
This since they are basing Military action decisions with low regard for civilian casualty loss.
A tactic used when State vs. State War exists, which in True War the destruction of rival State has highest priority.
In a War on Terror, tactics used would be more clandestine such as targeted assassinations of top leadership. Hostage negotiations would not play second fiddle to attaining strategic outcomes.
So far Israel reactions are aligned with a military response to invasion by State.
Those distinctions are irrelevant.
Israel is treating the situation, (ie 30000 heavily armed terrorists, in underground positions, embedded in civilian area, mere miles from the border) in the only way that makes sense …
War between States happens to be different then War against a Terrorist organization.
There are different levels of engagement that governments use when deploying military force.
All out War disregards consequences to civilian populations.
I will add, in War the distinction between enemy combatants and civilians
must not get blurred.
Those in power over a military who do not recognize this key element are guilty of War Crimes.
Conducting Warfare inevitably will create collateral deaths of non combatants who unluckily are unable to escape a War Zone.
Military tactics employed to engage an enemy does not entail ignoring those deadly consequences which occur to civilians. Otherwise it is not military but Murder.
So then how does Israel root out the Hamas terrorists who hide behind and among civilians?
Are you supporting this tactic and essentially offering Hamas a “get off scot free” card because of it?
Can you tell the difference between a civilian and a Terrorist?
Not in the case of Hamas and the Palestinians. This is why Israel gets to kill anyone in the way of getting to identified Hamas militants, their weapon stores or their tunnel entrances/exits and it isn’t considered a war crime.
This is why militants should no hide among/behind civilians.
The fact that Hamas does so, shows that they do not care about Palestinian civilian lives.
Doesn’t the IDF, its soldiers and reservists, and its headquarters next to a shopping mall in Tel Aviv comp mean Israel does the same “hiding” tactic you allude too?
And how about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict#:~:text=The%20IDF%27s%20practice,lives%20in%20danger.
Fight fire with fire? They used Palestinians though, not Israeli’s. Hamas uses their own people, the Palestinians. See the difference?
Actions speak stronger than words.
Hamas needs to go first.
By unilaterally releasing some hostages.
– It costs Hamas nothing to do this, they are not more at risk if the release a few hostages.
– It shows they are thinking of Gazans, not just of themselves
– it saves the lives of Gazans, and shows the world they are serious
– the value to Israel is priceless.
It’s rather obvious.
Of COURSE they should release the hostages. And Israel should release the thousands under uncharged “administrative detention” held in Israeli jails. I don’t care who goes first.
No one cares what YOU want random internet poster.
The D assassinated Bibi character since 2008 and Trump character since 2016.
Trump needs a strong vp, bc he no more a stand alone mountain.
Tel-Aviv progressive elite might throw Bibi to jail, but in the last eight months he
untangled the Iranian’s cauldron around Israel. He dismantled Hamas and cut Iranian cells in the west bank. He attacked Hezbollah, saved Assad, king Abdullah of Jordan, El-Sisi and MBS from the Iranian threat. Lebanon Camil Shimon, a member of parliament, told Nasrallah that if he cont to destroy Lebanon a 20K militia and the
the army are ready to curb Nasrallah ego.
Israel thinks they can still “mow the lawn” and finally eliminate the Palestinians from Gaza or force UN and Egypt to just take them.
Hamas doesn’t give a toss-they are loving the bad PR Israel is getting. If the longterm goal is to get the US to pull funding from Israel, well they are on the right track. Blinken and Biden policy is outstandingly bad to boot. Not a statesman left in DC. Everyone in the middle of course(both Israelis and Palestine) are not being well served by their “leadership”. As John Mearsheimer basically says, “there is no real solution.”
You could equally say this:
Until Russia recognizes the fundamental rights of Israel, and agrees to work with the more moderate Russian Authority loosely in charge of Crimea, there can be no peace.
Similarly, the Ukraine Authority needs to recognize the fundamental rights of Russia.
A genuine peace process would start immediately if Russia & Ukraine were to say: We recognize the fundamental rights of a Russian child are the same as that of a Ukraine child. Who wants in on the discussion?
An attitude change takes courage. And Ukraine needs to go first. The only other choice is perpetual war.
That or Both Russia And Ukraine Tell the U.S. to Stay The F#$@ Out of it!! They would have Peace already, IMO, IF that were to take place.
If Russia promised to nuke Israel in the event of a US-Russia nuclear exchange, it would probably dial back the risk by about 93% and Biden would quickly rein in US support for the Ukronazis.
The solution is simple. The US should not be party to mass murder. All aid to Israel should be stopped. Unfortunately our government is bought and paid for by the Israel Lobby / neoconnery. Thus we are participating in a genocide, a huge national stain.
There is no genocide. There is a war, started by atrocities committed by Hamas.
“started by atrocities committed by Hamas” Agreed! The Palis should have just moved out of their homes, cities and groves in 1882 when the first Zionists fleeing Ukraine arrived. What else could we have expected them to do?
“All aid to Israel should be stopped.”
Along with all “aid” to anyone. Period.
Specifically as a consequence of the US government being sufficiently small and limited to not be in any position to provide “aid” to anyone.
For this war to end, and we KNOW THIS BUT CANNOT UTTER IT, they will have to completely destroy BOTH AGGRESSORS’ leadership.
Since the leadership of Governments and factions are hiding, this will not happen. You can bet your bippy that Pres N. has a security detail and will not die in office.
“Netanyahu repeatedly crosses Biden’s red lines. Yet Biden constantly makes half-baked peace proposals cannot possibly work, even temporarily, as long as Netanyahu is in power.
It’s a mystery why Biden (more accurately Biden’s handlers) cannot grasp this.”
Mish, there many of us here (and likely you, but your wording disguises this, that KNOW that Biden AND ESP HIS HANDLERS, know exactly what they are (not) doing and, get ready:
THEY DO NOT CARE THAT WE KNOW THAT THEY KNOW and that is a summary of the BIG LIE OF GOVERNMENT.
There are NO GOALS and they are hanging out, enjoying free food and Drinks ON US and it is as if they are saying, right into our faces:
“SO, WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO ABOUT IT, SUCKERS?”
THEY KNOW WE WILL STILL VOTE FOR THEM OR THE OTHER PARTY and they know that they HAVE CONTROL and PEOPLE ARE ASLEEP TRYING TO FEED THEIR KIDS or simply LIVE.
What I am saying to all of my friends, family, kids, young and old alike: “WE DO NOT NEED THEIR LEADERSHIP! THEY ARE INCAPABLE NINCOMPOOPS.
Leave us the F alone!
Two households, both alike in dignity,
In fair Verona, where we lay our scene,
From ancient grudge break to new mutiny,
Where civil blood makes civil hands unclean.
From forth the fatal loins of these two foes
A pair of star-cross’d lovers take their life;
Whose misadventured piteous overthrows
Do with their death bury their parents’ strife.
The fearful passage of their death-mark’d love,
And the continuance of their parents’ rage,
Which, but their children’s end, nought could remove,
Is now the two hours’ traffic of our stage;
The which if you with patient ears attend,
What here shall miss, our toil shall strive to mend.
Should the US have sought a peace process with the Taliban after 9/11? Should we have sat down at a table with Bin Laden to work through our differences and establish a path to statehood?
Hamas exists to indiscriminately kill Jews. It’s in their founding documents.
Israel gives the people in Palestine plenty of reasons to support Hamas. The US gives the Muslim extremists plenty of reasons to hate us.
There’s room to negotiate a cease fire. There’s nothing like a path to peace. Civilized countries monitor and assassinate terror leaders, not make peace with them.
Bin Laden had nothing to do with that controlled demolition It was good theatre though for the sheeple I’ll give you that much
Fred. You have been duped again.
The Taliban didn’t do 9/11 and one of their spokesmen even warned us about it along with various intelligence services around the world we chose to ignore. A peace process in 2001 before getting thousands of Americans killed would’ve been smarter than turning Afghanistan over to the Taliban after getting thousands of American troops killed, accomplishing nothing other than some war profits for a scant few.
Israelis, particularly Netanyahu, have been propping up Hamas for many years. Netanyahu’s outrage over the massacre is comparable to some of the Jewish college students who have painted a swastika on their own doors before calling the police to report a hate crime.
There will not be a ceasefire until Hamas is made powerless. Given that Hamas will not surrender on its own and does not care how many of its citizens are killed, Arab leaders are going to have to cut off all funds to Gaza until Hamas lays down their weapons and asks for transfer to a safe country like Iran.
“Should the US have sought a peace process with the Taliban after 9/11? Should we have sat down at a table with Bin Laden to work through our differences and establish a path to statehood?”
“We” should have avoided doing anything, and being anywhere, which ended up resulting in either the Taliban or Bin Laden even knowing that “The US” existed, to begin with.
It’s not just random happenstance that caused Bin Laden, as well as The Taliban; and anyone else around the world; to obsess much more over the US than over Tuvalu. Or over US population sized Indonesia for that matter.
As much as card carrying members of the indoctrinati love to mindlessly regurgitate such nonsense: “They” don’t “hate us” for “our freedoms.” Heck, if for no other reason, then simply because “we” don’t even have any anymore. And back when “we” still did have some, “they” did not hate “us.” Instead the reason “they” “hate us”, is because we meddle. Much more than the Tuvaluans, which they don’t hate, do.
The Tuvaluans did not have military bases in Saudi. We did. And that is why Bin Laden hated us. If “we” instead had stayed at home; and lived and let live; Bin Laden would hardly have known who “we” were at all. Much less been able to rally a small privateer army willing to die fighting “us.”
Great analogy, actually. With 9/11, bin Laden and al Qaeda hated us for bombing Muslim countries, installing governments and regime changes dating back to Iran in 1953. But many Americans think they hate us “because of our freedoms”. In Israel, Palestinians hate Israelis because Jews moved into a neighborhood that was 96% Muslim, demanded (and got) a state out of that neighborhood, then bomb the Palis every time they fight back. But many Jews believe Hamas hates them because they’re Jewish. Great analogy.
Re: Blinken – can a dual citizen really be objective in this case?
Nope
Also, he looks like Gilligan only dumber.
A two state solution has been offered and rejected by Palestine numerous times since Isreal was established after WWII. Look up the history if you don’t believe me.
First, everything biden does is based on lies. Second, how and why would one negotiate with a people whose very existence thrives on your own bloody destruction? Jim Jones’ philosophy makes more sense than that of the Islamist thugs fueling this never-ending conflagration. Third, actions – particularly heinous ones – have consequences. Unfortunately for the Palestinians, fat billionaire button-pushers in place like Qatar never seem to feel those consequences.
Two peoples, seeking the same tract of land, “free of the others” for four millennia.
A two state solution, in effect, establishes a nation state, rather than current terrorist organization, that would seek, daily, the utter destruction of Israel.
If a button existed, where one could push and immediately exterminate the other group, Palestinians would rush to push the button – Israel would at least be a bit more contemplative before pushing.
Will next generation be any different – doubtful.
No button exists.
What if those suppliying arms to Hamas are a few billionaire oligarrchs in Iran and their goak is perpetual war? Thats how you get 70 years of war. Peace is not an option until Palestinian men stop signing up to fight.
For those who wants to know what has happened in politics in France in the last three days, here is a twitter tread that covers it very well. It has aspects of both tragedy and comedy with betrayals and strange bedfellows. Well worth the read.
Arnaud Bertrand on X: “These have undoubtedly been the wildest 72 hours in French politics in my lifetime. Pretty incredible stuff. A 🧵” / X
Is there a way to read the thread without a twitter account?
Sorry, it’s on X and the format works only on X. Did you close your account when Musk bought it or did you never have one?
Never had one. Don’t have Facebook or other social media either other than LinkedIn for business purposes.
It’s annoying Musk closed off reading twitter threads unless you are a user. We need a generic twitter user that we can all log in as to read threads without any posting rights.
I signed up for Twitter several years ago because as a shareholder of Tesla and a space enthusiast I wanted to keep with Musk. I never expected him to buy Twitter but I am glad he did. It is so much better now for just about everything.
Everyone on this blog will be dead one day but there will still be Israel/Palestine conflict. It seems like this is the constant destiny of.that place. Onto something domestic.that is going to affect a lot of people in Florida. The deluge is expected to continue for the next 10 days on.south Florida. Basically these storms will no longer move as quickly due to lack of major currents. This means parts of the coast may be underwater for awhile.
I thought you lived in the LA area? Do you have relatives in the area? Why should anyone care whether south FL floods or not?
I care about my fellow Americans more than Israelis or Palestinians.
There’s a lot of Israelis in Miami Beach.
I am confident that with the sheer brain-power of the commentators here on Mish’s blog we will come up with a practical plan to bring lasting peace between Israel and the Palestinians.
Most of us can’t even come up with a lasting peace between our own extended family at family reunions.
No way are we going to find a lasting peace solution between Israel and Palestinians.
We should let Israel run their own country and stop running ours.
This is why people play the lottery.
Even if we did, the politicians would ignore it because THEY didn’t come up with it.
“A majority of Palestinians are for a two-state solution that guarantees Israel’s right to exist.”
This I question. Experts on the Palestinian area mention that if a vote in the West Bank were held today, Hamas would win. From childbirth on Palestinians are taught that Israel is illegitimate.
How has the support for Hamas changed, if any, for Gazans due to the war? Hamas control over Gaza & the West Bank in a newly formed Palestinian state would be a disaster. Funded by Iran, it would be an even more of a threat to Israel than exists now.
–> “This I question. Experts on the Palestinian area mention …”
Who are these nameless, faceless “experts”?
What corporate swag were they wearing? CNN? Fox? MSNBC? NPR?
Swag from one of the “think tanks” that purports to know everything everywhere in the world from their air conditioned offices in the Washington DC suburbs?
Did any of them wear corporate swag from Raytheon or Lockheed?
PLO “chief” Yassar Arafat did not speak for all Palestinians. The PM of Israel (past, current or future) does not speak for all Israelis. So its a little weird when a western TV expert thousands of miles away claims to know what everyone in a group thinks.
Me? I think the majority (not all) Palestinians want to be left alone and allowed to determine their own priorities — distinct from Hamas or PLO or whatever committee of “experts”. They want their children to grow up healthy and happy. They were not consulted about the Oct 7 attacks.
I think the majority of Israelis want to be left alone and allowed to determine their own priorities — distinct from Tel Aviv or Washington DC or whatever committee of “experts”. They want their children to grow up healthy and happy. They were not consulted about the appropriate military response after Oct 7th.
I think the people of Mongolia and Vanu Watu and Zaire and Iceland all want to be left alone and allowed to determine their own priorities distinct from whatever political “experts” want to jam down their throats. They want their children to grow up healthy and happy.
I think the majority of people want the military weapons manufacturers and the TV experts to choke on their own sales brochures.
I think these views will hold up better than the perpetual warmongering views of the TV experts
Your questions are apropos and valid. Here are the answers you are looking for:
As I predicted, this hurricane e season in Florida and the southeast in general is going to be a doozy.
https://apnews.com/article/rain-florida-flooding-hurricane-season-a37631902e119c0036d1fd51da2dba15
This has WHAT to do with the post subject?
I’m tired of hearing people whining about the poor palestinians. How can anyone believe the media anymore. The Israelis face persecution everywhere they turn. It shouldn’t be a surprise considering the arabs control the media, international finance, US presidents, members of congress and their lobbyists, as well as US military policy. The palestinians can travel to the US without needing any visa, so why don’t they take a break from whining about their war and go on vacation for a while to think over what their terroristic society has done, or at least go back to Jordan where they all came from. If it wasn’t for the Israelis, that area would be nothing but a desert wasteland. They have truly ‘made the desert bloom.’ Everyone is welcome in Israel to come see what a truly great society looks like, and the only democracy in the region.
There wasn’t large scale economic productivity in North America until the white Europeans committed genocide and ethnic cleansing of the brown people in North America. Now you’re boasting about white European Jews “making the desert bloom” because of an ongoing ethnic cleansing and genocide program.
You boast about Israel being the only democracy in the region, yet the US government props up most of the dictatorships in the region and overthrew Iran’s democracy in the early 1950s.
It’s especially laughable that you think Arabs control the US media, politicians, and US military policy. Were Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, Elliott Abrams, Richard Perle, Bill Kristol, Victoria “the Hutt” Nuland, Henry Kissinger, et cetera actually closet Arabs and not Jews? That’s pretty laughable. Are you actually going to pretend that these dirtbags who got millions of men, women, children, and infants killed around the world, in addition to lots of US military personnel, are Arabs?
Even with Hamas, the Israeli leaders, especially Netanyahu, have propped them up for their own agenda at the expense of the lives of the October 7 victims.
“Whoever wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support strengthening Hamas and sending it money. It’s part of our strategy of isolating the Palestinians in Gaza from those in Judea and Samaria.” — Benjamin Netanyahu
“Netanyahu’s strategy is to keep Hamas alive and kicking. Even at the expense of the citizens in the south, in order to weaken the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah.” — former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak
“Day by day, we are making Abu Mazen weaker and weaker and thinking that is a success. We hardly talk to Abu Mazen. Most of the time we humiliate him. If we look at it over the years, Bibi Netanyahu is one of the main key people who contributed to strengthening Hamas.” — Yuval Diskin, head of Shin Bet
“We need to tell the truth. Netanyahu’s strategy is turning Hamas into his closest partner. Openly Hamas is an enemy. Covertly, it’s an ally.” — Major General Gershon Hacohen, Israeli Defense Forces
“Both Egypt and Qatar are angry with Hamas and planned to cut ties with them. Suddenly Netanyahu appears as the defender of Hamas.” — Israeli defense minister Avigdor Lieberman
Are you really so dense as to insinuate that jews own the media, international finance, control congressmen, lobbyists, and military policy? That sounds very anti-american. We all know Osama bin Laden (CIA Operation Cyclone) and ISIS (CIA Operation Timber Sycamore) are running everything and trying to destroy this nation and our manifest destiny. What next, are you going to try to deny that Jeffrey Epstein was working for Iranian intelligence to blackmail US congressman, presidents, and key business leaders? Muslims must be exterminated because they are our threat to our very existence due to their moral religious belief that charging significant interest rates on loaned money (usury) is morally wrong. Such thinking could bring down our whole society and everything we value. Financial products is what we make in America, not physical things anymore. These people want to destroy us with their ways of thinking.
I won’t go into the history. By now the distrust and rigidity of positions has reached the point where there will be perpetual on-and-off war, until either of 1) the Palestinians defeat (and presumably kill) the Israelis, (kill those who don’t flee fast enough…), or 2) the Israelis expel the Palestinians out of the region. Because of the so strong animus only the deluded see a two-state solution. The true solution has to be one state one people.
I wish people would stop writing this. It isn’t going to happen.
Israel was created as a refuge for Jews, a place that Jews could live w/o pogroms, harassment or antisemitism. It can only remain so as long as Jews control the government. Opening the politics and government would remove this guarantee, eventually turning Israel into just another Middle East, predominantly Arab state.
This being said, Arabs do comprise about 21% percent of Israel’s population and Arab citizens have the same legal rights as Jewish Israelis. In fact, Israel’s Knesset has an Arab party that I believe currently totals 10 members.
Nothing bad ever happens to Jews in Israel.
A lot less happens than would happen elsewhere.
You mean, Jews in the US should fear what happened on Oct 7th in Israel? Really? I’d be willing to bet that more Jews have been killed trying to create and maintain Israel than the cumulative number of Jews killed elsewhere since the establishment of Israel. I’m willing to be proven wrong if you have the data.
Everyone should stop talking about this 2-State solution. It isn’t going to happen EVER. The vast majority of Israelis are against it as are the politicians.
What the USA, EU, or the UN want is of no consequence.
The only solution is for Israel to expel or displace all Palestinians from the land of Israel, regardless of any claims or whining by the existing Palestinians. The best place to send them is Jordan, where 3 million Palestinians live right now and the King’s wife is Palestinian also. However, Jordan doesn’t want any more Palestinians, as they are like bedbug’s and no one wants them. Perhaps if the Arab states and the USA take up a collection, they can make the offer large enough for the King of Jordan to accept them?
Other issues to a Palestinian state, as mentioned below, must include cutting off all UN and UNRWA aid and what would be the borders of any such state. These two issues alone are enough to put the kibosh on any talk of a Palestinian state.
OK. So “one state” won’t happen, per Jojo. “Two state” won’t happen, per Jojo. What’s your answer for the descendants of the population that lived there for millenia? Is your answer simply that israel take all the land and expel however many Palestinians it desires?
How about moving the population of Gaza and the West Bank to any other part of the Middle East? Perhaps a section of the Red Sea coast of Sudan or a section of the Libyan coast? Both those countries are floundering states with low population densities and a few million people and a few hundred billion of both western and middle eastern aid would build (sand corruption) a decent new country. It would be a repeat of the founding of Israel but with the benefit that the new state would be ethnic/religious of similar to the country they will be enclaves in. Have the process done with the support of regional groups like the Arab League, Gulf Cooperation Council, Al Azhar, OIC etc as well as the US, EU and G8.
Then it will be possible to end US taxpayers support for both Israel due to the comprehensive peace in the region and scaled back military deployment costs.
The losers would be both the neocons and all the fanatics like Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas and Netanyahu.
Why should the West or the rest of the Middle East pay for any of that. If the Palestinians agreed to move and Israel wanted them to move they *they* should pay for this entirely. It’s not my business as a tax payer to pay for it.
Anyway, most of those countries don’t want millions more people. Mostly because they likely can’t feed them (country not a surplus food producer), house them, not enough water supplies and so on.
There is already several billion dollars a year provided by Arab countries to the Palastinians. Plus billions more from the EU and other western nations to fund so called refugees in Gaza as been funded now for 3 generations. So it would be better to fund the initial costs of moving them like a Marshall Plan and then leave them to go it alone.
Or would you prefer to keep spending a few billion of your tax dollars as you have for many decades now propping up Israel, Egypt and the US bases in Qatar etc?
And it is true that most Middle East countries don’t want yet more Palestinians moving to their countries, that why I suggested 2 locations that are not heavily populated.
How about you move out of your house because some Jew says his book gives him the right to it?
My home is in Cairo (Egypt). I doubt the Jews will lay claim to it.
I’m not sure about the morality of forcibly removing a population from their native land in order to suit another group that wants it. I do not look favorably upon the expulsion of Jews from 1930s Germany, for example. Really not a fan… How ’bout you?
Go ask the American Indians.
Translation:
The US did a crappy thing two hundred years ago, so Israel gets to do a crappy thing today. Or… Israel is exempt from the maturation of human morality that led to collective outlawing of ethnic cleansing.
Did this article lay out a map of the ‘land of Israel’ that they want to dispel all these people from?
Did it include Gaza and all of the West Bank? What about Lebanon where Hezbollah is now launching rockets from? Is it different that the original borders of 1948? 1967? 1972? There is no accepted definition of the land of Israel because it’s constantly changing whenever someone in Israel seems to say so.
The land of Israel can be considered what the current borders are, including the territories of Gaza and the West Bank.
Ths borders may expand in the future should other countries attack Israel and Israel comes out the winner, as occurred in previous wars.
Were you in favor of the expulsion of Jews from Germany in the 1930s?
Do you believe Israel is not bound by the IV Geneva convention about taking territory through war?
I’m always intrigued by those that debase morality in favor of their pet country or project.
Biden has threatened to remove Netanyahu from power no matter what. Biden and Obama even went so far as to influence Isreali elections (when Netanyahu lost a few years ago and was temporarily out of power).
Even if there was a good deal proposed, Netanyahu would be a fool to trust anything Biden says or does. Trump will be President next January, Netanyahu can get the same or better deal, and from someone who might actually keep his word. Isreal cannot trust Biden, Netanyahu cannot trust Biden.
Hamas… shouldn’t need to explain why Hamas isn’t going to trust Biden. Beyond Biden, a peace agreement (if one lasted) would be the end of Hamas, and they know it.
UAE, Saudi, Jordon, Qatar have all promised funding for Palestinian civilians (not Hamas, at least not officially) after Hamas is destroyed. There is simply too much profit for them if Hamas is stopped. This is why Hamas attacked last fall (out of desperation and seeing the writing on the wall).
Israel has made too many temporary cease fires to count. Why give Hamas another one now? Why not finish the job, destroy Hamas, and then let a more reputable international peace group (from Saudi, UAE, Egypt, etc) run Gaza instead?
Hamas is going to get destroyed. Biden is irrelevant and untrustworthy. Neither have any role. Its not obvious Trump should be involved either. The USA has made a mess of things under many administrations, but the Obama/Biden foreign policy team is downright incompetent as well as corrupt.
Palestinians need leaders who will make certain compromises in exchange for real enforceable promises from Israel. When/if that happens, Netanyahu may have to accept peace, Israel may have to accept a Palestinian state something like the Oslo Accords. When that happens, there is a lot of Arab funding to rebuild a neutral Palestine.
Egypt is a critical cultural influence in the region. Egypt already suffered a coup under the Obama/Biden regime. They don’t trust Biden (or his foreign policy team) and with good reason. Turkey is another important Islamic cultural force, and they don’t trust Washington. Biden threatened to remove MBS from power in Saudi Arabia (several times). And Iran and Washington DC don’t exactly get along.
The US shouldn’t be in the equation. Biden is an idiot and untrustworthy. Trump has far more important things to worry about domestically ($35 trillion debt and a corrupt career bureaucracy to start). Given the US’s history of failure in the region under every administration, lets just admit Washington is more hindrance than help
The Angry Orange Mussolini Wannabe LIES about practically EVERYTHING. Nobody will trust him to do anything he says unless he’s directly lining his pockets, of course.
Hamas is moving the goal posts again and thwarting recent peace talks, according the idiot-savant Blinken.
Duh!!! If there was a peace agreement, it might benefit the citizens of Gaza and/or Israel (depends on details) — but when this current round of fighting stops, Hamas is done for. All the major players in the region need Hamas to go away.
For Hamas, agreeing to peace is agreeing to suicide. Everyone else has interests that differ from Hamas. That’s why Hamas was so desperate to start a war with the Oct 7th attack.
Blinken is a moron, and keeps proving it every day.
Cut funding to both sides and let them fight it out. Also force Israel lobbies to register as foreign agents.
Actually shut them down. No foreign country has a right to lobby our government.
You and too many ranters like yourself don’t understand that the money we give to Israel brings significant ROI and therefore, will NEVER stop. Here’s some education:
Yeah sure and I’ve got a deal on a bridge too
Who wrote that circle jerk of stuff?
1) Love the use of the word stability twice. Of course we have other allies in Saudi Arabia who let us directly have military bases in their country. Egypt is also quite stable and much more important with control of the Suez Canal
2) So basically it’s great that we borrow money to give to Israel to buy our weapons to keep our weapons business going. Why do we need Israel for that? Why not just borrow and buy the weapons from ourselves and just stockpile here. In other words why the need for Israel in this equation. Finally Israel is the 27th highest GDP in the world, right after Belgium and Ireland. We don’t seem to send those 2 countries any ‘aid’ so why does Israel need it?
3) Exactly how many cutting edge military things has Israel produced on their own without the US? We could just hire directly the handful of people in Israel doing this cutting edge work and have them work for us similar to how all the German scientists at the end of WWII were imported to create the US space program and military jets.
4) When was the last time American forces staged in Israel, drew down that stockpile of weapons and were deployed in a Middle East conflict? We brought our own stuff for Iraq (both times). Libya? Syria? Basically the US brings what it needs for conflicts thanks to a massive Navy. Plus as mentioned there are US bases in countries like Saudi Arabia already.
5) This is laughable. Israel didn’t deter Iraq from invading Kuwait nor did it stop the Iran/Iraq war in the 80s. Beyond that, there hasn’t been any regional conflicts in the Middle East *other* than ones involving Israel and it’s neighbors. In other words the region is less stable with Israel.
6) This is just a re-statement of #3 – LOL
Israel didn’t even send troop to help fight Iraq even though Netanyahu testified to congress about what a great idea the war would be. Israel basically held our coat whike we took out Iraq for them.
I provided a link to the article. YOU can go there and then peruse the source links for the article. Should you disagree with specific points, you can certainly communicate with the original authors and express your superior knowledge.
Who told you Egypt is stable? There was a revolution in the Arab Spring that overthrew the government. Then there was a military coup that kicked out the Islamists that took power. Now the general that seized power (Sisi) is dealing with major problems to keep things under control as the economy is a mess. Doesn’t help that the Houthis have slashed Suez shipping by 500 million dollars each month and they are backed by Iran that wants to ruin Egypt. Those Houthi attacks on Red Sea shipping is less about Israel/Gaza which is just the excuse as they damage Egypt.
The Muslim brotherhood and other islamists would love to get back in control. Currently about 50,000 of them are locked up and plenty more are in exile in countries like Turkey from where they direct their base ( a few million supporters) in Egypt. They would also like revenge for their man Morsi being overthrown or for the 1000 or so killed in the Rabaa masacre ( that is a square that I’ve been through plenty of times but they cleaned up any signs of what happened there.
As for US bases in Saudi Arabia they can easily be ordered shut by the Saudis at any time as there is an ongoing power struggle between different branches of the royal family and any wrong move by MBS could see him undermined in the succession. What if an anti western prince ends up as king?
Six strikes! YOU’RE OUT!
Now take your pre-packaged zionist talking points and fike them where the sun doesn’t shine!
Ha! The Middle East is in turmoil at least partly due to Israel. Israel is an albatross to the US. In order to support Israel, we violate our laws, we violate our values, we violate international law, we are willing to isolate ourselves diplomatically, we lose international credibility, respect and support, and send them more money than we have all other nations in the post war period.. all in order to support this one foreign nation.
Equally, Israel does not benefit from our aid. It is permitted to act like the local bully, with total impunity. Israel would benefit from being cut off. It would have to become a responsible, reasonable country.
No, Israel is not a benefit to the US.
Whatever they have been doing in Israel and Palestine for the last 75 years is obviously not working. Two tribes fighting over the same piece of land is as old as the bible. If these children cant stop their squabbling, this may be a moment for a brief history lesson of how the US in the 1850s was also fighting over the same land with the Indians. The solution in 1850s was for the stronger side to annihilate the other side. I dont support that solution, but it is historically how these things usually end.
An internationally imposed two state peace might work. I also think Israel should set up a sanctuary for LGBTQ people and women threatened by Hamas honor killings.
Will the alphabet people “sanctuary” be treated the same as the “safe areas” for Palestinians in Gaza?
I love these conservatives that (rightfully) rail against drag queen story time, but then rave about how much better Israel treats the alphabet people better than the “mooselimbs”.
Then there are the Leftist pro-Palestine supporters that favor anal rights here but say nothing of the muslim world.
A monkeypox on BOTH their houses!
Jews versus Muslims is nobody else’s problem. As a taxpayer I’m tired of paying for it.
Jews historically had much better relations with muslims than christians. It was only when Israel was plopped down in the middle of the muslim world that jews suddenly realized they started singing Onward Christian Soldiers.
And the holy rollers were glad to oblige!
http://www.judaism-islam.com/
Sure. That explains why almost all the Jews that were living in Muslim countries fled to Israel leaving their homes and businesse.
They were encouraged to leave by Israel so that they would boost Israel’s population.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Plan
Enough of your zionist talking points!
You lie, Nasser in Egypt expelled thousands of Jews after seizing their property. Thousands more went into exile as the choice was exile or prison. There is a synagogue just a few blocks from my wife’s family home that has been shut for as long as I can remember, it is a nice neighbourhood and many establishments were owned by Jews, so why would they give up that comfortable life in Egypt for the uncertainties of early Israel unless they were forced out?
The same applies to Jews from dozens of Arab countries where the anti Jewish situation drove hundreds of thousands to leave and end up in Israel. With the ironic effect of building up the Jewish state where now over half the Jews are Arab Jews.
Provide a reference like I did.
There probably were expulsions from Egypt after the Lavon Affair, and rightfully so.
Jews will tell how they are badly treated but never WHY.
Few people know about the Lavon affair. Congratulations.
No, we can condemn the expulsions of the guilty without applying collective guilt and punishment on the innocent. Take the high road.
Typo! No, we can understand and CONDONE the expulsions of the guilty without applying collective guilt and punishment on the innocent based on their religious group. Take the high road.
Israel had to bribe Morocco to let its Jews leave. The grand rebbe of Baghdad said, in an article in 1947, that Jews and Muslims have lived together as equals for 1000 years and that Zionists were splitting Iraqi society. Want the link?
Those that did take place were the result of zionists demanding a majority jewish state in an 96% muslim neighborhood.
“There is a
synagoguemosque just a few blocks from my wife’s family home that has been shut for as long as I can remember, it is a nice neighbourhood and many establishments were owned byJews, Palestinian Muslims so why would they give up that comfortable life inEgyptJaffa, Haifa, Tiberius, Safad, Ashkelon or Lyd for the uncertainties ofearly Israelrefugee camps or Arab countries unless they were forced out?“They were hunted out. I know. I saw it happen. You speak from willful ignorance.
Even if they were, it’s not a problem for the US.
It’s multi-faceted. Many jews in arab countries went to Israel for zionism. Others were expelled in a retaliatory expulsion out of anger at the treatment of the Palestinians. But Kevin is correct to point out that Jews fleeing persecution in Europe often fled to Muslim countries. One of the most famous, is Rambam (Maimonides) who fled Spain for Egypt where he because a physician to Salah-al-din who conquered Jerusalem from the Crusaders. Another is the large Jewish neighborhood around the Galata tower in Istanbul. There are countless other examples. What changed, you may ask? The aggressive and successful attempt to wrest a political entity out of an overwhelmingly Muslim area called Palestine/Israel without asking 96% of the population what they would like. This is Israel’s original sin.
Nazis versus Jews was nobody else’s problem too, right Skippy?
Germany does not have a Jewish problem. Palestine does.
Skippy?
The jews were perfectly willing to help the Nazis to expel the Brits from the middle east. They also worked with Nazis such as Skorzeny after the war.
The Other Side: The Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionismhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Other_Side:_The_Secret_Relationship_Between_Nazism_and_Zionism
ROTFLOL!
That contention is based on a SINGLE book written by Mahmoud Abbas, who is head of the PLO. The book was written back in 1984.
Try harder next time.