There cannot possibly be peace when all we have is continued retaliation by both sides. Hamas and Benjamin Netanyahu are both obstacles to a solution. So are many others, including Biden.
ICJ Orders Israel to Stop its Operations in Rafah
On May 24, NBC reported ICJ Ordered Israel to Stop its Operations in Rafah
The International Court of Justice on Friday ordered Israel to immediately halt its military assault on Rafah, the city in southern Gaza where more than 1 million people had sought refuge in dire conditions.
The top United Nations court cited an “immediate risk” to Palestinians, noting that more than 800,000 people had been forced to flee Rafah since Israeli forces began ground operations in an area that had once been declared a safe zone.
Judge Nawaf Salam, president of the ICJ, said Israel had failed to sufficiently address and dispel concerns raised by its offensive, all while the “catastrophic” living conditions of Palestinians in the strip had deteriorated further.
Friday’s ruling comes just days after the International Criminal Court’s chief prosecutor applied for arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, as well as Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar and others over alleged war crimes.
The ICC can charge people with war crimes and other related charges. It is separate from the ICJ, which considers cases between states and has no real power to enforce its rulings. Russia, for example, ignored an order in 2022 to halt its war in Ukraine.
Predictable Results
Israel ignored the order, of course. The results were predictable.
Israel struck an alleged safe zone setting encampments on fire and killing at least 45.
‘Tragic Mistake’
The Wall Street Journal reports Netanyahu Says Killing of Civilians in Israeli Strike Was ‘Tragic Mistake’
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel called the deaths of civilians in an airstrike in the southern Gaza city of Rafah a “tragic mistake,” pledging an investigation as international condemnation mounted against the attack that Palestinian officials said killed dozens.
Israeli and Egyptian officials also held urgent talks on Monday after a rare cross-border clash between the two countries’ forces left an Egyptian officer dead, as they tried to prevent the situation from spiraling out of control.
French President Emmanuel Macron said the airstrike, which took place Sunday night, was an “outrage.” European Union foreign-policy chief Josep Borrell condemned the Israeli attacks in Rafah on X and wrote that they must stop immediately.
Meanwhile, the shooting incident with Egyptian forces on the border threatened to deepen Egypt’s rift with Israel over its military offensive. Egypt threatened to downgrade its diplomatic ties with Israel after the Israeli military seized control of the Gazan side of the border crossing to halt what it says is the smuggling of arms and funds across the border. Egypt has also said it would join South Africa’s court case charging Israel with genocide.
The Egyptian Armed Forces said Monday’s shooting led to “the martyrdom of a security agent” who Egyptian officials confirmed was on their side of the border. People familiar with the incident said Egyptians opened fire first and the Israelis responded, and that no Israelis were killed.
Now Come the Tanks
Yesterday, the WSJ reported Israeli Tanks Close In on Central Rafah as Global Uproar Grows
Israeli tanks advanced farther into Rafah on Tuesday, according to witnesses, as the Israeli military said it was expanding operations in the southern Gaza city amid growing international condemnation.
The tanks passed near the Al-Awda mosque, a central Rafah landmark, Palestinians in the city told The Wall Street Journal.
The airstrike hasn’t resulted in any policy changes for the Biden administration, National Security Council spokesman John Kirby said Tuesday, as he reiterated what Biden has described as a “red line” with Israel. “We don’t want to see a major ground operation” in Rafah, Kirby said. “We haven’t seen that at this point.”
Nearly one million people have fled Rafah since the Israeli military ordered an evacuation of the eastern part of the city on May 6, but the city’s mayor estimates that around 500,000 remain as they struggle to find another place to take shelter.
The strike on Sunday caused huge explosions in a tent encampment where Palestinian civilians were sheltering, witnesses said. Palestinian authorities said it led to the deaths of at least 45 civilians and wounded others, including women and children.
Video from Reuters showed people trying to extinguish a fire in the dark of night while screaming could be heard in the background, and families standing amid the rubble the following day.
Red Line BS
Am I the only one tired of this red line BS? Biden is playing this out of both sides of his ass.
Israel ordered 1.5 million people to evacuate Rafah then struck a safe zone where they were told to go.
This we call a ‘Tragic Mistake’. But don’t worry, an investigation will sweep everything under the rug as if it never happened.
In the grand scheme of things, it’s just another minor incident (except to those killed or injured) because 36,000 have been killed in similar incidents, mostly on purpose.
What is the Best Way to Help Israel?
International Law Ends
Eurointelligence comments on When International Law Ends.
The ICJ ordered Israel to stop its operations in Rafah, and yet, two days later the IDF continued with targeted strikes that caused a deadly incident in a crowded tent camp where people were burned alive. There was predictable outrage inside and outside Israel, but outrage alone won’t change anything.
European governments, as ever, are wasting time, and are mostly focused on discussions with each other. They are coming up with minimal consensus measures. Last week, three European states unilaterally announced that they would recognise the Palestinian state. But without a firm commitment to a two-state solution, these assurances remain empty gestures. Instead, they fueled an extremist response from the Israeli government.
Instead of taking sides in this conflict, the EU and the US would better off to distinguish between extremism and the legitimate rights of both people. By taking the air out of extremism, we strengthen the moderate factions in both communities and and start diplomacy towards a two-state solution now, not later after the conflict.
Fundamental Rights
Eurointelligence comments “The fundamental rights of a Palestinian child should be regarded the same as the ones of a Israeli child. If we cannot adhere to this principle, what is the point of all our talk and gestures?“
Who is Recognizing Fundamental Rights?
The answer is no on. Heck, there is not even a discussion of rights other than Israel’s right to defend itself no matter how many Palestinians it kills in the process.
Netanyahu is a huge part of the problem. The rights he proposes, also part of Trump’s proposal, are so one-sided no Palestinian could accept.
Trump Releases Mideast Peace Plan That Strongly Favors Israel
On January 28, 2020, the New York Times wrote Trump Releases Mideast Peace Plan That Strongly Favors Israel
One-State Solution
The huge problem with Trump’s proposal was that it was outrageously one sided.
“Path to a Dignified National Life”
Large portions of the West Bank would become Israel. Palestine would have no right of self-determination and no territorial rights.
Trump and Netanyahu promised a “path to a dignified national life“, whatever the hell that means.
Red LInes
For more discussion of Biden’s alleged red lines, please see What is the Best Way to Help Israel and Ukraine?
Also see my March 10 post Are Biden’s Red Lines to Netanyahu Really Yellow or Green?
The answer, in case you have not been following the recent news, is green.
What Should the US Do?
The EU and the US need to recognize the fundamental rights of a Palestinian child are the same as that of a Israeli child, because until we do, there will never be peace.
Meanwhile, providing weapons to Israel as it crosses red lines many times is a clear message that one side has more rights than the other.
Finally, the US is $34 trillion in debt. We cannot afford these wars and should not be involved in this mess even if we could.
HA HA!!
Israelis, Palestinians and Ukranians all have the right to be cannon fodder.
More wars, more death, more weapons spending!!! Glory to Raytheon and Lockheed and BAE systems.
The more pointless wars, the higher weapons manufacturer profits!
The more weapons profits, the greater the bribes and kickbacks to G7 politicians!!!
That is how the world works. Thousands of Jews and Arabs are right now fighting to bribe and lobby the criminals in Washington, Brussels, London and Paris into diverting more weapons to “their side” — followed by bribes from the other side.
More death! More weapons! More bribes!!!!
Mish sometimes has some trouble telling humor from serious comments.
In case its not obvious that the above is morbid sarcasm, it is a serious commentary on the level of corruption throughout the G7 political class.
I agree, Palestinian children should have the same rights as Israeli children. That begins with NOT BEING INDOCTRINATED INTO A DEATH CULT FROM BIRTH.
Not all societies or groups are equal, we don’t need anymore Bronze Age Islamist societies, they are a net negative to the world.
LMAO at “Hamas and Benjamin Netanyahu are both obstacles to a solution”
So before those two there was peace? Nope and there won’t be After those two currently in power are gone.
The whole conflict over there is a millstone around the neck of anyone who tries to bring about a “solution”.
Has been for thousands of years.
The USA and other s say that Israel does not have a plan for post-war Gaza. They are wrong. Below is part of the future plan for Gaza. Is this enough motivation for Gazans to plan on migrating elsewhere or do they want to live in a prison camp?
Mish, please enlighten, before you bestow all kinds of “rights” upon the Palestinians, and presumably, their own state, please first do something that no one has ever done and is something that needs to be addressed before any talk about rights and statehood. What distinguished the Arabs living in so-called Palestine (on the West Bank), from the Arabs living on the East Bank (in Jordan)? If there are none, then don’t the former already have their state in the latter?
I am not going to go back to biblical times to decide who was where first.
Nor can you tell me what “right” Britain or the US had to create a nation of Israel.
All I can tell you is there will never be peace until
A) one side or the other is annihilated
B) the sides recognize the legitimate rights of each other
Now what part of that do you disagree with
Palestinians have made it repeatedly clear that they support Hamas and do not support a two state solution.
Proved a link
I believe this is what you are looking for:
——
Over 70% of Palestinians say Oct. 7 Hamas attack on Israelis was right decision: Poll
By Valerie Richardson – The Washington Times
Friday, March 22, 2024
More than two-thirds of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank believe Hamas made the “correct” decision by attacking Israeli civilians on Oct. 7, while a majority want the militant group the U.S. and Israel consider a terrorist organization to continue to rule the enclave after the war with Israel.
…
The poll also found that 59% of Palestinians polled said they wanted Gaza to continue to be ruled by Hamas, which has ruled in the enclave since 2007. Again, there was a split: In the West Bank, support dropped from 75% to 64%, while support for Hamas increased in Gaza from 38% to 52%.
…
The center noted that 56% of Palestinians in Gaza believe Hamas will prevail over Israel, up from 50% in December, while confidence in a Hamas victory dropped in the West Bank from 83% to 69%.
A plurality of Palestinians, or 45%, supported a two-state solution with an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel, although those in Gaza were far more likely to back the idea (62%) than those in the West Bank (34%).
…
Asked how to achieve the Palestinian goals of “ending the occupation and building an independent state,” 46% favored “armed struggle,” while 25% supported negotiations and 18% wanted “peaceful popular resistance.”
While the “armed struggle” option was the most popular, it was also down from the 63% who favored the alternative in December.
…
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/mar/22/over-70-palestinians-say-oct-7-hamas-attack-israel/
Netanyahu clearly let the attack happen on his citizens so he could retaliate in the manner than he has. He doesn’t have anything in terms of a legacy and had to do something to leave the Israeli people in awe of him. The truth is he should have been removed from office for letting the attack on his citizens happen. It is impossible to believe that such an attack could be perpetrated inside of Israel without tacit approval by Israel.
Sure, obviously.
Classic false flag operation just like 911
Agreed that Netanyahu and Hamas are the problems.
Given the structure of the current cabinet, Netanyahu is considered a moderate within the cabinet. This should inform the reader that the current government of Israel is reactionary and right wing.
Netanyahu’s viable opposition is also conservative.
The Israeli people keep voting conservative so they are satisfied with the overall policies of the IDF, and foreign ministry otherwise there would’ve been a change in policy regarding the two state solution.
Hamas besides a political and military party is also an ideology. Ideologies can’t be destroyed by force of arms.
Neither Hamas nor Israel see each other as human beings. Until this changes there will be no negations between them.
Netanyahu is more to blame than Hamas. He funded Hamas in an attempt to strengthen them and weaken the PLO. His divide and conquer plan has worked with the intent of gutting the two state solution. Netanyahu’s final solution is genocide of the Palestinians, a diaspora of the Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank and the creation of Greater Israel.
I wondering if negotiated settlement is possible when either side can decide they are justified in ignoring the agreements made? Does Hamas believe the apparent Muslim belief “convert or die.”
Wow Mish!!! You got my mind running today and stretching me. I’m imagining this being written by a Russian, North Korean or anyone in China the last 23 years….
What are the fundamental rights of Americans and Iraqis?
What are the fundamental rights of Americans and Afghanis?
What are the fundamental rights of Americans and Libyans?
What are the fundamental rights of Americans and Syrians?
What are the fundamental rights of Americans and Houthies/Yemenis?
What are the fundamental rights of Americans and Somalis?
What are the fundamental rights of Americans and Nigeris?
And then finish with a deep question of “What should we do about all of this?”
What a wild thought exercise
Israel’s justification of its actions – that they’re no worse than the Americans’ actions – may be true, but it’s hardly a defense. It’s more of a confession.
“Top Stories: Economics
What Are the Fundamental Rights of Israelis and Palestinians?
June 8, 2024”
Why is this essay listed under “Economics” rather than “Politics?”
accident
“What Are the Fundamental Rights of Israelis and Palestinians?”
The same ones as everybody elses, as outlined in the US Founding documents. No less than that. 2nd amendment included.
What happens to people in Gaza if they start a political party to run against Hamas?
Its a mess and the only winners are Iran who benefit from instability in the region and Russia with a Ukraine distraction and general aggravating the west. 25 percent of each population hate each other. The other countries in the region dont want the Palestinians either and view them as a problem. The jewish community across the world has money and political influence. Biden is just trying like every other previous us leader trying to manage a problem with no solution. Except trump who picks a winner in this case Israel and thats part of the reason where were at.
The bottom line as the way i see it they have chosen a crappy government in Hamas. Nothing will change until the other 75 percent select stand up for themselves. With that being said iran Russia and Hamas wont allow that.
According to the bible the land of Israel was promised to the children of Abraham. Its a family argument and its best to stay out of family arguments. .
After winning the Independence War admiral De Grass sailed south. He escaped admiral Rodney. During the dark two French ships collided. In 1782, after failing to save York, admiral Rodney captured De Grass, killed thousands and destroyed the French fleet.
Yesterday an IDF tank carrying the hostages had a mechanical problem. Hamas was closing in to capture new hostages and kill the Israeli special forces in spectacular victories. The IDF prepared for several worst case scenarios for 3 weeks.
They have a right to a deep, abiding hatred of each other, forever and ever. Each earned the hatred of the other. They don’t care what we think about the horrible things they do to each other except to use it to make their enemy look like a monster. They are all monsters, driving each other mad with rage as they extract vengeance for the atrocity before.
Do you want US to pay for it?
Pay for what? They could keep this going with rocks and sticks.
Your terms are acceptable.
WE DO NOT NEED LEADERSHIP from our Government. WE NEED FREEDOM to live peacefully, have HEALTH CARE/FOOD/LIFE that is affordable for ourselves and our children.
America, please stop this shit and get back to fucking work.
Mish, no offense, but I have a better way to structure the ideas in this suggested solution from you:
“The EU and the US need to recognize the fundamental rights of a Palestinian child are the same as that of a Israeli child, because until we do, there will never be peace.”
“The EU and the US need to recognize the fundamental rights…..”
FIRST, MISH, it must be WORLDWIDE, with all countries involved in solutions, not Just the Hegemon and its Weak Sister, THE EU….and I am also adding ADULTS to my corrections:
Corrected: “”The ENTIRE WORLD needs to recognize the fundamental rights of ALL PEOPLE are the same as that of any other Person, because until we do, there will never be peace IN THIS WORLD.”
PEACE ON EARTH needs to be the GOAL, not PEACE IN ISRAEL and PALESTINE. PEACE ON EARTH FOR ALL PEOPLES!
Until this becomes the goal of mankind, THE PEOPLE WILL DIE at the hands of SOLDIERS, COPS, AUTHORITIES and AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENTS such as the USA, Israel, Saudi Arabia, China, Japan, THE ENTIRE EU, and the Other countries that do no need to be listed here for brevity.
I TELL EVERYONE THAT I KNOW that AMERICA SHOULD NOT BE THE WORLD’S COPS. WE ARE ALREADY BROKE from WARS ON TERROR, WARS ON US (THE AMERICAN PEOPLE), WARS ON IDEAS, WARS ON US….the FUCKING PEOPLE.
This is war in an urban environment. There WILL be collateral damage, just as when an oncologist treats a cancer patient. Innocent lives are lost when any combatant uses human shields or jams missile/bomb navigation signals. Bombs and missiles can carry explosives that have a blast radius appropriate for the target. This is surgical bombing to the 6 sigma level.This reduces innocent lives from being lost.
Israel needs to send the message Palestine enables Hamas, and Palestine needs to be as active as Israel in eradicating Hamas for any sort of peace to be achieved.
If Palestine does eradicate Hamas, is there any guarantee that Israel will treat the Palestinians as people? Judging from the West Bank, no.
See also Leviticus 25,
44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.
Does somewhere in the Torah contradict this?
There are two million Israeli Arab citizens …
What evidence is there that Gazans want to overthrow en masse Hamas? Seems to be none.
The MEDIA needs to broadcast this message daily!
Palestinians need to provide Israel IDF with info as to where Hamas operatives are hiding. For this info, they should be rewarded. This is a message that Israel should be broadcasting.
The term “collateral damage” implies that it’s accidental. It’s not.
Accusations without evidence is just fantasy.
The brain fog : 83% out of 173 votes.
In 1948 Israel became a state recognized by the US, the USSR and the world. Palestinian Arabs and Jews, under the British mandate, became Israeli citizens on that day. The newly born Israel was attacked by 7 Arab states. In the Six Days War, Abdul Nasser convinced Syria and Jordan to exterminate Israel with him. The Golan heights and the West Bank were not stolen. MBS was about to recognize Israel, but Hamas became a party breaker. The 3 whore states map is good for sex and vd.
You appear to be on the side of the USA Meddling forever in this mess. This is THEIR BUSINESS, and their people and their Governments must pay for it with THEIR assets and their people, not ours.
“The newly born Israel was attacked by 7 Arab states. ” Right after Jewish militia groups had cleared Haifa, Jaffa, Tiberias, Safad, Lyd’s and other towns of 90% of the Palestinian populations before Israel declared itself a state. Israel is not an innocent victim.
“What Are the Fundamental Rights of Israelis and Palestinians?”
Simple. Both have a right to unlimited U.S. taxpayer money. Next question.
Yep, that summarizes it perfectly, MPO.
“Israel ordered 1.5 million people to evacuate Rafah then struck a safe zone where they were told to go.” Unless you can read more critically than that, you are as much of a waste as those you criticize.
I see you are part of the problem.
Mike, I’d add that to assume that millions of people are just to up and move to the safe zone…move to WHAT exactly? How many people could do that in their own neighborhood right now? Easy for us (from comfy safe housing) to say that moving to a safe zone is a perfectly reasonable request. /sarc
What’s your solution then?
Not my job to provide the solution. But the concept that “We’ve provided a safe zone” and 1.5 million just automatically drop everything and go imo is a bit disingenuous.
You are apparently too busy to read all the posts on this thread because I DO offer a safe place for those in Gaza. See:
https://mishtalk.com/economics/what-are-the-fundamental-rights-of-israelis-and-palestinians/#comment-262707
If you can’t provide a solution, then what is your value in this conversation? To be chief whiner?
You have no ideas but criticize those trying. Good job.
I doubt that United States Army killed Pat Tillman on purpose when they killed him by friendly fire. Pat Tillman‘s death was a tragic accident. I doubt the Israeli Army killed the people in the safe zone on purpose either. Their deaths were a horrible and tragic accident. People die accidentally when training for war and people die accidentally in war. That’s why war and violence should be avoided.
Aljazeera Jaza editor and his family, who held a female Israeli hostage, are dead. Hamas is a bottomless pit, a black hole, for contributions from Qatar and the Europeans. The more Palestinians get killed the better it is for Hamas. Yesterday the price of keeping and maintaining hostages was high : 4 hostages for 200 Hamas terrorists. Yesterday Israel was celebrating their freedom and the cunning operation.
Bibi is cutting Hamas and the west bank oxygen. If Qatar cuts the money flow to Hamas a trade deal might be signed with the Palestinian and Lebanon. The Iranian cauldron might be weakened, even if Santa Anna escapes.
I like to think those 200 odd people were all carrying AKs and shooting at the Israelis, but the truth probably lies somewhere between that and Hamas herding civilians into position as human shields.
They’ll kill Hamas, but something else will take its place. Some kid freshly made orphan trying to survive in the ruins right now is hatching a plan.
“200 Hamas terrorists”. pshhhh
Israel is screwed in every direction. They can’t get rid of Netanyahu or prosecute him because nobody else can form a coalition and the war goes on with no end in sight.
They can’t make the Haredi fight or even hold jobs (largely) and they make the babies. They can’t beat Hezbollah or the Houthis (Hamas, maybe sort of). The secular Jews ( who don’t want a Jewish theocracy)may be leaving and the pro-settler government will grow in power. Egypt is barely stable and the world is getting tired of Israel. The EU will be shifted politically by Muslim immigration.
The real question is how the above come together and when.
The Haredi are holding this world together. If they stop studying the Torah, God will shutoff the lights and go home.
Actually, more than 2000 Haredi volunteered to fight with the IDF after Oct 7th.
If Bibi was gone tomorrow, Hamas remains. Your obsession with Bibi isn’t the issue, nor is he. Try better.
A land without a people for a people without a land.
Starring Paul Newman as Ari Ben Canaan, Lee J Cobb as Barak Ben Canaan, and Sal Mineo as Dov Landau.
As accurate as Transformers.
Let’s try some other angle.
Why not officially, on the UN level, make it clear that certain people have more rights than other people, maybe based on race? It worked in South-Africa for a while, plus the list of things you’re only not allowed to do (both race and country based) is already there (look up the definition of anti-semitism), so it’s just a formality.
This whole idea that all humans are equal… Half the world isn’t enforcing it anyway.
I believe George Orwell explored this idea…
I would like to know who would guarantee these rights and how they would be enforced without “meddling”? I rather doubt that anybody outside wants to put their money and the lives of their citizens into this task so I ask again, who will do it?
There are no universal rights, regardless of what some people wrote on parchment almost 250 odd years ago.
Everyone is born naked with no rights other than those that will be bestowed on them by the country they happen to be born in .
We are born with rights.
Same way we enforce rights all around the globe: Bombs! YOU get a bomb, and YOU get a bomb, and YOU get a bomb….
People don’t seem to mind Israel killing Hamas fighters. The problem is that Hamas is hiding behind and among the civilians, who don’t seem to want to get out of the way by moving to the coast and so they wind up getting killed also. These civilians steadfastly move to hospitals, schools and other places where Hamas is also hiding out at, has tunnel entrances/exits at or near or are storing weapons in or close by. This is downright dumb.
So why not “temporarily” relocate all the civilians in Gaza to the West Bank, which is a mere 60 miles distant?
Israelis wandered in the desert for 40 years until they found the promised land. Gaza civilians can certainly walk/ride for a week to get to the relative safety of the West Bank!
Fantasy land.
Why? That’s the one suggestion that makes the most sense.
Move everyone out for a few weeks time and personally vet every person for being a Hamas fighter. Then all that will be left will be Hamas fighters at which point you send in the army and kill off Hamas.
Then the civilians return home.
“The problem is that Hamas is hiding behind and among the civilians”
No sh^%&t, Sherlock! Where else would they be? Pluto? The earth is a rather populated place by now, you see…..
Just in case you’ve never been there: There are, surprise surprise tah-dah! “fighters” and “enemy leaders” “hiding among civilians” in Tel Aviv as well. Which must surely justify any number of half cocked rocket attacks Hamas could ever come up with, then. Considering Israeli military conscription; and not figuring the Ultra Ortodox as big ravers; Hamas were also no doubt just targeting “fighters” at that dessert rave, were they not? Any non-fighter, like kids and whatnot, being simply “acceptable” “collateral damage.”
And you know what: Rumor has it, there may even have been a Jap in uniform “hiding among the civilians” in Hiroshima as well. America eff Yeah!!
There are certain locations designated by international law as areas where troops, combatants, and weaponry are not allowed: hospitals, schools, churches, etc. Hamas intentionally violates this rule for the conduct of war. Other forces besides Hamas have violated that law, including ISIS in Fallujah, Ramadi, and Mosul, Abu Sayyaf in the Philippines, etc. and the governments of those countries and the US (the leading imperialist power, correct) have carried out offensive attacks under those circumstances, which IS allowable under law, as long as reasonable measures are made to minimize civilian harm, which they largely do. Read “Understanding Urban Warfare” by Liam Collins and John Spencer, especially the chapters on the Battle of Mosul and the Battle of Sadr City and you’ll see that modern militaries (even democratic imperialist ones like the US) are very conscious of the propaganda war that often involves useful idiots promoting reactionary forces like ISIS, Hamas, Iran, and Russia under the Putin regime because they must be “the oppressed” if they’re facing off against Israel, the US, the UK. Like you, the ultra-lefts of today, don’t really know how to identify what these wars are about, what forces are deserving of support (Ukraine, Israel, Cuba), and what forces don’t deserve the support of working people or are even a threat TO working people (Iran, Hamas, China under the state-capitalist CCP, Russia). And so, you put on a pair of “leftist” blinders and start making political errors, like the ones above.
Palestinians have a right to the land of Palestine, their homes and property that were stolen from them by the Jews, and a right to reparations for 75 years in the Jewish Gaza concentration camp.
Jews have a right to leave Palestine.
…says KGB, exercising his right to spout nonsense….
“Jews have a right to leave Palestine.”
The problem with that kind of reasoning, is that it would be equally valid for Native Americans and non-historically-native Americans…
Instead, US (at least once-were…) legitimacy is/was-intended-to-be built on not trampling on anyone’s individual rights. Which, yes, the Israelis most certainly have been, and are, violating, and very systemically at that.
But, IF they would stop doing that; they have no a priori less “right” to be in Palestine than non-native-Americans have to be in America.
Man was created with legs with which to travel. Hence have an inalienable right to go wherever he feels like. Jews as much as anyone else. They, nor anyone else, just don’t have any right to restrict any of the natural rights bestowed upon anyone else by their Creator.
What if there is no “creator”? What if your creator disagrees with my creator?
Rights don’t come from a creator. They come from the government/strongman that you live under.
If there was no creator, there would be no created. Hen (as the swedes may say…) may not be recognizable, but someX created that which is created.
As for what “your” personal creator disagrees with: Take it up with the centuries of discourse leading up to the US Founding documents. Along with the millennia of ditto encoded in the great world religions. All of whom have converged on what is awfully close to exactly the same, wrt practical matters for earthly application. There are valid reasons why standing on the shoulders of giants, is accepted as a more reliable strategy than laying on one’s back in a crib all diapered up while screaming na-na-na-na-na-na!
In any sufficiently complex space, you’ll always be stuck with less than fully deterministic answers. If presumed automatons/free-wills in that space are resource constrained they; along with any arrangements they propose/build; are subject to competitive evolution. Things “everyone”, not just those around at any given instant but rather across all four dimensions, evolve to arrive at largely agreeing on, is as good a hint as you are likely to get, wrt what your actual “creator” agrees and disagrees with.
IOW: In the US context: Stick with The Founders, and those The Founders stuck with. Even empirically; there is every indication that their stuff worked. And, unfortunately, more evidence piling in every day, that veering from just that; indeed does not work.
To say again for the n-thousandth time, the first prerequisite for peace is Hamas agreement to it. But Hamas (and Iran behind it) won’t agree to anything except the annihilation of the Jewish state, and its population of Jews. (According to Critical Anti-Colonial Theory, this is the just and right resolution to the conflict.) Anything else right now is “lip-flapping”.
What our Pres. Biden, and the Europeans, want is a return to the status quo ante-Oct. 7th, and some lip service to resuming negotiations for a “two state solution” that the two parties don’t want and that Biden and the Europeans know won’t happen.
False.
The two state solution is dead and buried. The status quo ante-Oct. 7th was a brutal racist occupation and ethnic cleansing. That is now finished and most likely so is Israel, God willing.
“ethnic cleansing” – you mean like how there are now almost no Jews left in any middle-east country…? (Whereas a third of Israel is Arab)….
By all means let’s condemn the *retaliatory* expulsion of Jews, just as you should condemn the original expulsion of Palestinians from their homes. Both are evil. Neither should have happened. Palestine was 96% Muslim before the waves of aliyah. Jaffa, Haifa, Lyd were majority Muslim in 1947, now a tiny fraction remain. The fight was picked by the new immigrants demanding a political home in an Arab land.
Not exactly. Iran did favor a two state solution – and still might, as a practical matter Rafsanjani and others realized that if Palestinians were chill with some two state solution, there’s no conflict to exploit, no wedge to get involved.
The land belongs to Palestinians. Israelis stole the land, the property, the businesses of Palestinians in 1948. Israelis strafed refugees with aircraft, threw satchel charges into homes, raped the women, and herded all refugees into the Gaza concentration camp. The war cannot end until one billion Muslims are dead or Jews leave Palestine.
Why do you suppose the land has been called, “Judea” for thousands of years….?
Land claims based on sky-fairies don’t supercede the rights of people living on a land for millenia. Yes… the Palestinians are the Jews who didn’t leave and later converted to Islam. They ARE the ancestral inhabitants of that land. Ashkenazi are 40-70% European, per DNA studies. They are less closely related to ancient Canaanites than Palestinians. Regardless… Palis were living there. Why is it right for them to be uprooted in the modern world?
Might makes right has been the history of human civilization.
Perhaps Palestinians should convert back to Judaism and then petition for the right of return? But they still wouldn’t get their owl land back.
“Under Israel’s Law of Return (1950) as amended in 1970, all non-Israeli Jews and Gentile converts to Judaism are entitled to settle in Israel and receive full Israeli citizenship.”
“Might makes right has been the history of human civilization.”
Are you suggesting that all human actions that were effected by force become morally right? A successful robbery? Do you believe a rape is immoral, unless it succeeds? The successful expulsion of group X by superior force of group Y? A successful suicide bombing becomes morally correct since it was successful? Any partially successful genocide? Is that what you believe? What we should all accept as moral?
I said no such thing. I don’t give a crap about “morals” because everyone has their own version of what is moral and what is not moral.
For example, in my morality, it is not moral to shoot rockets into Israel territory targeting random, innocent citizens.
And the USA belongs to the American Indians, many of which we still have penned on “reservations”. Will you give up your house and property to the rightful owners?
Ironic that you refuse to acknowledge a valid claim dating from 1948 but insist on a claim dating from BC. And, oh, PS, the American indians can become citizens of the US and can live and travel freely to settle in their native lands. The Cherokee are free to live in Northwest Georgia, for instance. In any home they choose to buy. Would you support the same rights for the Palestinians to return to their homes in Jaffa, Haifa, Jerusalem, Safad?
Another of your dumb attempts at whataboutism.
Can South Koreans buy a house in NK? Taiwanese in China mainland? Etc?
They are Human rights recognized by most civilized nations and communities, and in general amongst the slave classes. Unless you run afoul of some larger opposition force that has different feelings at that particular time.
That being said, this has been going on in one form or another since humans got up on two feet. In this case you have Israel that has embraced religious Zionism, which is akin to a racial supremacy ideology. Verses another form of zealotry rooted in Muslim religious teachings among the people with in Palestine and the world.
The fact is that this land was taken over by the people who call themselves “Jewish”. The actual Jewish people are basically Arabic. They are not chosen and they are not special “humans”.
When you take something from someone and they know you take it from them…The only way you will keep it is by force. And unless you kill or remove everyone of the people you stole it from you will always have an insurgency. And it will never end.
The Hamas fighters are not even a military. They have no air power. No satellites. No tanks. No real support lines etc. These are guys that have grown up in a land locked open air prison. They have nothing to lose.
And then you have Israel dropping block buster bombs on the civilization above the tunnels where Hamas fights from.
Either get to the actual fundamental facts or quit bringing up these ridiculous, superficial questions to try to click bait the low I.Q majorities.
Hamas is a death cult driven by the pleasure of hatred. At least one Hamas official has stated that they don’t feel any obligation to pursue or even consider the interests of the Palestinian people – he claimed that that is the responsibility of the United Nations.
Hamas celebrates Palestinian deaths – it is their only propaganda leverage.
You actually mean the united states death cult of dropping nuclear weapons on civilians and killing sheep herders and third worlders with no means to defend themselves in a practical manner?
Now you see how weak they are going up against a peer level adversary.
Very entertaining.
A LOT OF people fail to notice that the REAL problem in the Middle East is a thing called “WATER”. Compared to the amount of water available the Middle East (incuding Israel !!!!) is (heavily) overpopulated. As long as that overpopulation problem isn’t solved, one way or the other one can bet one’s USD that “tensions” will continue to “flare up” every say 2 or 3 years.
Water is not an issue and the population of the region is growing. The Saudis use desalination plants.
Prior to Oct 7th, Gazans suffered with poor water, water polluted with sewage and not enough natural water. 150 private, unregulated desalination plants were in operation.
Also, desalination plants create environmental problems as ot how to dispose of the salts and minerals removed form the sea water. And then there is the issue of having access to the ocean to run such plants in the first place. That is a serious problem for the West Bank Palestinians who don’t have any ocean front access.
Here is an older article on the subject.
———-
Gaza’s undrinkable water ‘slowly poisoning’ Palestinians
Human rights organisations have warned for years about the deteriorating water situation in the Gaza Strip, exacerbated by Israel’s attack in May.
By Maram Humaid
Published On 12 Oct 2021
Gaza City – The water crisis in the Gaza Strip affects every one of the coastal enclave’s two million inhabitants.
Many people in Gaza must resort to buying their drinking water from private suppliers as municipal tap water often does not work because of long power outages, and is usually too salty to drink even when it does.
Heavily polluted water resources in the strip also have a serious impact on public health, with children, in particular, facing the risk of water-borne disease.
…
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/10/12/gaza-undrinkable-water-slowly-poisoning-people
“Prior to Oct 7th, Gazans suffered with poor water, water polluted with sewage and not enough natural water.”
Those are problems faced by concentration camp inhabitants virtually everywhere. It informs precious little about underlying environmental factors.
If you have nothing useful or of value to contribute to the conversation, other than attempting to make snarky comments, then you shouldn’t say anything.
Half of northern israel’s water comes from occupied west bank acquifers. “Two state” proposals from Israel continue to claim that water. It is still a big deal. Agricultural water needs are too high to desalinate sea water.
Overpopulation problems don’t get solved when the population is given everything they need to live for free by “humanitarian” aid agencies such as the UNRWA!
That unlimited free aid is why Palestinian populations in Gaza and the West Bank have grown from less than a million prior to 1948 to over 5 million today.
“Overpopulation problems don’t get solved when the population is given everything they need to live for free by “humanitarian” aid agencies such as the UNRWA!”
Did you ever care to compare how much UNRWA receives every year; vs what the state of Israel receives?
“That unlimited free aid is why Palestinian populations in Gaza and the West Bank have grown from less than a million prior to 1948 to over 5 million today.”
And, I suppose Israel receiving 2+ times “unlimited” free aid, is why its population has grown even faster….
“…because 36,000 have been killed in similar incidents, mostly on purpose.”
The U.N. has now stated that the 35,000 deaths are incorrect. The true number is around half of what the Hamas Ministry of Health reports. Also in many cases the IDF warns inhabitants of buildings to vacate before they’re hit.
“..Egypt has also said it would join South Africa’s court case charging Israel with genocide.”
Now it seems Egypt had a clandestine avenue for providing arms to Hamas for years.
“…and start diplomacy towards a two-state solution now,”
What kind of state would the Palestinians have at this point? Hamas is more popular than the PLO, so what would keep their ally Iran for supplying even more weapons to the new state of Hamas not only in Gaza but also on the West Bank. The Palestinians are not ready for their own state when a majority don’t feel Israel should even exist.
That’s incorrect. The death “adjustment” means that of the 35,000 deaths only some proportion could be identified by name. The unidentified are just as dead. The totals continue to be correct. You’ve been deceived by Israeli propagandists. (Likely an undercount given bodies in rubble.)
Hundreds of thousands of people who refuse to leave Rafah are choosing to be human shield martyrs for Hamas.
People say Hamas doesn’t have the support of the populous, that Gaza is full of people who only want peace.
Choosing to stay in Rafah is choosing to die to support Hamas.
If they held your family, you would have no problem justifying every effort to destroy them.
My understanding is that Hamas is not allowing anyone to leave. They are being forced to stay as human shields.
Man, you really have to upgrade your “understanding!” How the heck would holed-up-in-tunnels “Hamas” stop a million+ people from starting to walk?
People have nowhere to go. Second and third homes weren’t all that common in Gaza even prior to all homes being bombed to pieces…..
People also, justifiably, have zero faith that they won’t be attacked even if they do leave what little they may have left in this world behind.
This was true when Hamas was in control of the government and its borders.
I wonder if Palestinians can get in boats and sai to Europe, as so many Africans and others do on a regular basis to escape the hellhole they have created? Where are the people smugglers wo offer this service?
I’ve seen ZERO media stories about ANY Palestinians who successfully sailed from Gaza to Europe, yet there are daily stories of many others still doing so. WHY?
Yeah Man!
Just as is the case with every civilian who ever died in any war! Ukraine, Germany, Hiroshima…All “choosing” to be human shields!
When the Muslims have “holy texts” that advocate killing Jews, it’s hard to see how any Jew will ever be safe from hate.
And the rights of a German child were the same in 1943 as that of a Polish or French or Belgium or Dutch Child. Or Jewish German Child. Fat lot of good that did any of them. Really Wish, extremely naive.
So what do you propose other than perpetual war?
Israel is destroying itself. Once that is complete, the war will be complete. Just as the U.S. is in the process of doing. All based on overarching ideas of racial /class supremacy ideals. Pray more.
So then sit back and watch the show. You will be proven wrong but perhaps you will stop posting your foolishness while crossing your fingers and hoping that Israel and the USA suddenly go POOF!
A dying mule kicks the hardest.
Heaven forbid that any group should be “superior”, even in a practical way, to another….
Jews have been awarded about 158 scientific Nobel Prizes. Given that Arabs outnumber Jews about 30 to one, and given that only one Arab has won a scientific Nobel (actually he was an American of Egyptian background) and given that we have supposedly established that there is definitely no superiority between racial groups in any way, the only conclusion is that the Jews are guilty of some kind of evil conspiracy to suppress other groups’ achievements.
As a Hamas supporter, NINEXNINE apparently hopes that Israel will destroy itself.
Good luck with that….
You prove my points in your erratic post. It is amazing to watch.
“Heaven forbid that any group should be “superior””
Yes, that’s correct. Even if Jews have produced more Nobel laureates, all people’s lives have the same moral worth. People from every group have contributed to human advancement. Anything else is just ethnic bigotry.
And groups are just agglomerations of people. I thought civilized people had moved beyond tribal thinking.
PS re your ‘conspiracy’ comment. Kudos for combining a strawman and non-sequitur in one statement!
“A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives”
— Jackie Robinson, Hall of frame baseball layer
You didn’t say “a life” you said “groups”. You make two moral errors.. 1. collectivization of individuals, 2. being selective about moral worth. Perhaps a third is to ignore the inconvenient members of the group you are trying to elevate.
But let’s put a fine point on it. Are you saying Jews are simply superior to all other groups of people? Worth more? Or somehow better? Let’s hear what you really believe. You’re anonymous here.
Everybody is entitled to live in peace, even the Palestinians.
But when they continually attack Israel and its citizens, shoot rockets into their midst with regularity and profess to champion the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people, then they lose that right and must be removed from the playing field.
The Palestinians have had numerous past opportunities to obtain their desired “State”. They rejected all those opportunities, instead choosing to war against Israel in the hopes that their Arab brethren or perhaps Iran, would come to their aid at some point. That hasn’t happened and seems unlikely to happen. But if it did, Israel would win such an encounter yet again and this time, not only would Israel secure additional land but the Palestinians would truly be forced into a “March of Tears” to Jordan.
The Palestinians only remaining option is to assimilate into other countries. If they don’t choose this option on their own, they will be forced into taking this option.
Its not a strawman argument – people have been accusing Jews of evil conspiracy to acquire power and wealth for centuries – its what lead to the Holocaust.
And I’m going to state that the lives of those killed in the gas chambers had a moral superiority to those who put them there.
If you think they had a moral equivalence, good for you
It seems like whenever there’s a systemic crisis of the capitalist system (like today) there’s a dramatic rise in Jew-hate, antisemitism, and conspiracy-theory-mongering blaming “the Jews”. Maybe capitalism and a strategy of scapegoating the Jewish people is the problem?
NGO Panic account?
Semitism is not specific to so called Jewish people. And for clarification the anti-“antisemitism” works both ways.
You don’t get a elite minority of wealthy elites that collude with multiple dominate nations to vote an entire culture out of there property with out some sort of repercussion.
Educate yourself or the reality will educate you.
This article will explain much. it is long. I doubt many will read it to the end but I hope they do.:
Repeat until they believe it?
Education won’t help those with-out the ability to to retain or interpret large amounts of information.
U.S. educational system at its finest.
Thank you for your stunning example.
Maybe this is group narcissism, inflating the importance and overestimating the antipathy of others towards your group. Maybe people don’t really spend a lot of time thinking about Jews or hating Jews.
You totally disregard the fact Hamas vows to destroy the state of Israel still. When fighting for survival you must be as brutal as your enemy, it is Hama’s fault, it Israel’s there are Palestinians being killed daily. No Oct 7, no reprisals.
As long as israel keeps treating the palestinians as second rate citizens the tensions won’t decrease.
Send them to Egypt. Or Jordan. Or Lebanon. Oh, wait…
The so-called Palestinians aren’t wanted by their Arab cousins. We all should wonder why.
Why should they have to leave their country and go elsewhere?
Because “Palestine” was a fiction of the British and French to divide the Arab populace into controllable “national” areas; the Jews have an older historical claim and history in the region; and because the original UN resolutions were to partition the area, and the “Palestinian” political leadership has rejected that despite the Israelis having eliminated the malarial conditions that before the 1920s made large parts of the area barely habitable and difficult to live in much less develop.
I can recommend a great many books that’ll give you a better understanding of the history and political dynamics of the region, or you can maintain your ignorance.
Didn’t all your books tell you that the Palestinians – whatever you want to call them – are DNA-proven to have descended from Canaanites and Israelites? They are the jews that didn’t leave, then converted. The Western Wall belongs to Palestinians as much as to Jews. You conflate religion with ancestry. Not the same.
If your Hamas government wants to use you and your kids as human shields, I find that would be a very good reason to go elsewhere. Afterall, your ancestors left their country to go to Canada. Where they smart in doing so? Probably.
If you want to leave that’s fine. Those who want to leave should be able to freely emigrate anywhere that will have them.
But mandatory expulsion is something else entirely. Those people were born there and it is their home (they aren’t invaders). Doesn’t matter whose home it was 100, 500, 1000, 2000 years ago. Someone’s always lived some place before people who are there today.
750k Jews were FORCED to leave Arab countries in 1948. Could they return to where they used to live in those countries and recover the real estate they held?
Can American Indians get the lands we took from them back?
If you believe the American Indians shouldn’t be able to go back, you’ve just undermined the central zionist concept, bucky.
PS.. on expulsions, it’s a lot more complicated. Many jews left voluntarily to realized the zionist project. Morocco didn’t allow its jews to leave until later bribed by Israel (not saying this is good, but not an expulsion). There were Jews living in Iran until 1979.. there are still synagogues in operation there today. Regardless, as evil as the expulsions that did happen were, they were in retaliation for the expulsions of Palestinians from majority Palestinian cities/areas in Israel: Haifa, Jaffa, Jerusalem, Tiberias, Safad, etc.. Your take is selective and misses a lot of context and balance.
“send them to Egypt, Jordan” – OK
“go back to Poland” – unacceptable.
Discuss.
“nobody wants Palestinians” – therefore Palestinians must be bad
“1938 nobody wants Jews from Europe” – therefor the countries rejecting them must be bad
Discuss
Suggested reading. All their Arab brothers hate the Palestinians. This explains why they refuse to come to their aid or offer them refuge. It’s called Karma.
November 5, 2023
Why Muslim nations don’t want ‘Palestinians’
By Andrea Widburg
One of the things the left is desperately downplaying as it demands that Israel allow Hamas and its supporters to go unpunished and, ideally, cede to the Arabs the entire land of Israel is the fact that the surrounding Arab nations are refusing to take Gazans in as refugees. The reason is that nobody wants these “Palestinian” Arabs who have proven to be as destructive to Arab nations as they are to Israel.
…
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2023/11/mustsee_video_why_muslim_nations_dont_want_palestinians.html
Ah, yes, Jojo, who believes his group is superior to others, tells us why a group he dislikes really is morally inferior while ignoring my prior post pointing out the inconsistency is his own logic.
I ignore most of your posts because they lack logic or are just plain dumb.
Palestinians aren’t citizens of Israel or any other place. They are officially stateless.
Back in 1948, all Arabs in the Palestinian territory, were offered citizenship in Israel. About 20% accepted and presently have full Israeli citizenship and voting rights. Arabs even have 10 representatives in the Israel governing body, the Knesset!
Instead, the Arabs, now called Palestinians, called themselves refugees, who would wait until the end of time to get the land they previously lived on back. While waiting, they would suck at the test of the UNRWA, a UN agency dedicated to providing everything free to these new Palestinians from food, to apartments, to household supplies, to cars, to education to the tune of 500 truckloads DAILY..
Hell, UNRWA even acted as the actual government, so that Hamas could spend more time building bombs and digging terror tunnels.
And what have these Palestinians achieved since 1948? NOTHING! They have no government, no state, no economy, no intellectual leaders and IMO, no FUTURE. Meanwhile, Israel, pre-Oct 7th had built a $500 billion GDP from zero in 1948.
Palestinians area failed race and should be forced to integrate into other Arab countries
Hoo boy… I guess since Palis are a failed race and fake refugees, we can kick them out of “the land they previously lived on” (what most people call homes), bomb them every now and then when they protest or fight back, and still feel good about ourselves.
I wonder if you’ve ever encountered ideas contrary to those you cherish so deeply.
Why other Arab countries? Why not America because there is lots of land here and population density is far lower than in any Arab country.
We could even settle them along the southern border, carve out a new state for them and I’m very confident they’d make an excellent border guard against the wave of illegals streaming in 🙂
I think FL would be a great state for them to move to. Turn it into MI south!
How is Hamas going to destroy the state of Israel with out an air force, or tanks, or advanced missiles systems or over head intelligence?
You need to educate yourself on all the atrocities that Israel has been committing over the last 40 years against the Palestinians
How would you feel if someone came in and got enough people together to vote for some resolution to take your land and occupy it based on some tenuous religious idea?
Would you fight to get it back? Would you tell your friends and family to help you fight?
It is hard to read the ignorance in these comments. Most of you have been over brainwashed into stupidity.
Does Germany expect to regain Prussian capital, now Kalinigrad? Californians don’t fight to become part of Mexico. Wars were fought and won by Israel. The fact that 20% of Israel is still Arab and citizens says you are the ignorant one. No doubt, atrocities committed by both sides but Jewish state doesn’t look to expel Arabs but live together. The walls went up because Arabs couldn’t stop suicide attacks. These were never tried by Israelis.
False.
And do Jews expect to go back to their ancient homeland?? Oh, whoops. Never mind.
PS… Go read what the Irgun did between Nov 1947 and May 1948 for some balance.
Doesn’t the ruling Likud party charter specifically state there will only be Israeli sovereignty from the sea to the river? Aren’t illegal settlements up and down the west bank, defended by IDF, a sign that they mean it? Since this is a ‘vow to destroy’ any potential state of Palestine, doesn’t it justify Palestinian military response just as much as you defend Israel’s?
Was not aware of that, no. Will check it out. This is a timeless issue, a continuation of the Crusades, east vs west. Nothing will end it is the sad truth. Individual Arabs and Jews/Christians get along fine. Such a shame both sides have leadership bent on realizing ancient myths..
Agreed! People are spilling blood over parchment and caves. It’s a terrible tragedy and the tribalism is so… unevolved.
Many people don’t know that. I don’t blame you. But remember “from the river to the sea” if chanted by pro-Palis is very, very bad. Genocidal, even. But “from the sea to the river there will only be Israeli sovereignty” is an aspirational peace mantra of love.
Israel exists to be a JEWISH state, where Jews will always have refuge from a world that leans strongly antisemitic. While there is a small Arab party in the Knesset, Arabs cannot and will not be allowed to gain further political power in Israel.
And yes, the intent is to slowly push Palestinians out of Israel territories via the settler expansion. Life’s a beach and then you die.
If Palestinians have concern about their families and the futures of their children,.they will leave the area on their own, find countries willing to accept them.
One way to add motivation for this initiative is to defund and ban the UNRWA from distributing free food and supplies to Palestinians, as they have been doing for 75 years. People who, as a whole, don’t work at anything except terror, will not leave someplace where life is easy, food is free.
“where Jews will always have refuge” – I’ll bet more Jews have been killed in Israel than in the US, or Canada, France or Argentina. If you displace a population with new immigrants, the displaced tend to resent it. Maybe cultural zionism would have worked better. You know.. immigrate to Palestine but don’t demand a state carved out of what should have been for others due to their population majority. Coexist in a binational state like many, many early zionists wanted. Look up Jacob Schiff, Albert Einstein, others.
“Arabs cannot and will not be allowed to gain further political power in Israel” meets, “the middle-east’s only democracy”. Discuss.
“The Palestinians should just leave”…”one way to add motivation for them to leave”… Another way is to kill them, take their water, blockade their ports, refuse to allow them to build, ignore international law, continue taking their land. You forgot these other helpful suggestions!
Thanks! I agree.